/animu/ - Anime & Otaku Culture

spics

>>61687

>giving a fuck about Dragon Ball's canon after Dragon Ball

Bro, Piccolo was retconned into just being part of a weird, slug like race of creatures in DBZ despite his dad being able to shit out demons like nothing. Hell I heard that in DBS it's confirmed Goku is a fucking idiotic savage who has never kissed his wife in her lips as well! Toriyama doesn't give a FUCK about canon, all he cares about is making funny jokes and battles where people swing their power levels like massive cocks, if you tune in to DB at all now a days it's for the chad like, mindless battles.

>>61769

5 pics in and it's already better than Super.

>>61764

It's canon was a fun and lighthearted mishmash of ancient chinese fairy tales such as sunwukong. Plus back in DB the mcguffins and special techniques actually made fights interesting. Moreover the dragonballs only being able to revive peoole once made the stakes so high when character deaths happened.

>>61776

Yeah, but that 30 years ago. By the time Dragon Ball started making inroads into America and outside of Japan, Toriyama was already fucking up continuity with sci-fi and completely ruining any sort of narrative consistency by the time of nonsensical Cell arc.

>>61707

>Second image.

I thought that name and style were familiar; he's worked on some games I like. Too bad about his apparent preference for drawing yaoi smut; he does a nice job on designs for girls (or in this case, putting his style to existing designs for them) when he's got the mind to be /commission to do so.

>>61832

Yeah I know, doesn't mean I won't lament about the older arcs though, since I grew up with them. Granted, dubbed, and since I live in the border of the US I used the Mexican dub of it to learn Spanish.

Saiyan arc was still worth it.

>>61687

It's because he likes Superman and doesn't think too hard about things like themes or deeper meanings. Also, Goku had already become stronger than God, so he had to find villains from another world, who wouldn't be under God's jurisdiction, to give Goku a bigger challenge to overcome.

>>61721

The Piccolo Daimao arc had already established that people can become demons by giving into evil. When Piccolo took over the world and encouraged people to be evil, those who actually did became Mazoku, the same as his children. Piccolo Daimao was still a demon, but also an alien.

The Piccolo arc is about Piccolo creating conditions of fear and despair that encourage people to become evil, literally becoming demons. Goku, on the other hand, with his personality that essentially consists of nothing but confidence (but not arrogance) and perseverance, consistently influences people to become good, including Piccolo himself, even managing to make Piccolo no longer a demon. If I didn't know better, I'd almost think that Toriyama wanted to be a real writer and inject some meaning into his manga for once.

>>61769

>Goku being Muslim

>when he's met actual God and become more powerful than him decades ago

I suppose they could be arguing Zeno is Allah. But I'm sure it won't be long until Goku becomes more powerful than him, too. Ultra Instinct puts him on par with Beerus. Then it's just the Angels that stand between him and Zeno.

It bugs me how much Toriyama’s art has deteriorated over the years his peak was during the Cell saga tbh

>>63016

>NOPE, not once was it ever revealed that Piccolo was an alien.

When Vegeta tells him, you dingus. What I'm saying is that the revelation that he was an alien doesn't change the fact that he was a demon. It makes it so that he was both a demon and an alien.

The guy who would become God is an alien from the Planet Namek. He came to Earth as a young child and has no memories of his birth planet. He grew up here and became a great martial artist, eventually vying for the position of God. The previous God sensed evil within him and wouldn't let him take the position with that evil, so the alien purged the evil from within himself through some sort of process that is never quite defined, so it may have been an alien ability, some sort of magical spell, some sort of spiritual thing, or a combination of multiple factors. It's irrelevant though. What is relevant is that the evil that was split off took corporeal form that resembled the body he came from. Basically he split in two. Both halves would still be Namekians though. But since one half, now called Piccolo, was pure evil, literally being formed out of the evil from the original guy, he was a demon. If you are pure evil you are a demon.

Either way, he has access to abilities that his original, non-split self had, as well as perhaps additional demonic abilities, though I don't know if this is clear, beyond the fact that someone killed by a demon does not get to go to the afterlife. We see him lay eggs, which is later revealed to be an alien ability, and he can seemingly mutate them at will. This seems to be implied to be a demonic magic or spiritual ability. Piccolo's children, his Mazoku (Demon Tribe) are also demons, because they are also born pure evil, but they are still Namekian, just mutated, perhaps by demonic magic or influence. During this time, Piccolo creates an environment of fear and despair by taking over the world and causing mass destruction, and this causes regular people to turn to evil and also become Mazoku. Other Mazoku would later appear in filler, including Garlic, Jr. and his minions, and Lord Slug's minions. Of course I know we're not counting filler here, but it's worth noting.

When he is dying, Piccolo Daimao makes an unmutated child and puts his own spirit and memories into it, so I guess he basically just made a new body for himself. We never see other Namekians do this, so again it's unclear if this ability to transfer his own soul like that is a natural alien ability, a demonic ability, some sort of magic spell, or some type of spiritual martial arts technique.

Either way, Goku manages to influence him enough that his soul is not 100% evil, and therefore he ceases to be a demon. Then in GT he goes to hell anyway because he's a demon. Even though he had already gone to heaven previously. That was bullshit. But then I suppose we're not counting GT.

tl;dr: Demons are people who are pure evil. Being a demon is a spiritual condition. Being an alien is a biological condition. In the Piccolo arc, there are humans who are said to also be demons because they gave in to Piccolo's evil.

>>63016

Correct about the alien thing. Toriyama said that he decided that Piccolo would be an alien by the time Kami was introduced, I think (and that's why they spoke an alien language during the tournament). Piccolo Daimao was technically never an alien. It was just retroactive continuity. Piccolo was the evil, demonic version of God, so it only makes sense for them to look the same. He was a legitimate demon, and his children were fully demonic and he decided what they would look like (just demon magic, don't question it too much), like when he decided that Cymbal would look like a dragon. Piccolo Jr. as well, but by the time he killed Goku and Raditz, his demonic nature had weakened enough that both of them went to the afterlife, even though people killed by demons can't do that. Kami mentioned this himself. Even for years after that, Piccolo had to deal with the inner conflict of knowing that he completely failed his mission, until he finally fused with Kami. After that, it's safe to say that he ceased to be a demon entirely. He did change, though. Both fusions did change Piccolo significantly.

>Moreover it makes even less sense since it's specifically said that Kami's evil portion of himself suddenly just came to life and became corporeal, meaning it was purely spiritual in nature.

Why doesn't that make sense? It's a fantasy story with mystic elements. Of course it does. His evil couldn't just vanish, so it manifested itself physically. Part of him because a god, but the part of himself that he rejected had to become the opposite. It's a great concept.

>>63023

>When Vegeta tells him, you dingus.

That my son and everything after is called a retcon and you trying to rationalize it. No work of fiction should force the spectator do so much contrived fan fiction to fill in the non-sense.

>>63027

So if Toriyama's ramblings are to be believed the retcon predates DBZ, ouch.

>Why doesn't that make sense?

It doesn't make sense to make him an alien since it was never implied in the show that Kami was one. Just that Kami he was a spiritual being who decided to shit out the evil parts of his soul to become a real successor to god. Which makes me wonder, how the fuck did Cell come back to the land of the living after he blew himself up in Kaio-sama's place? Maybe I missed out an episode, or manga chapter, but I could've sworn that the afterworld and living world are two separate entities despite sharing the same universe.

Did he learn instant transmission somehow?

>>63027

>Piccolo Daimao was technically never an alien. It was just retroactive continuity.

That means that he was an alien but we didn't find out until after. That's what retroactive continuity is.

Everything else you said is correct except for the bit about "he ceased to be a demon entirely." Either you are a demon or you're not. If you're not 100% evil then you're not a demon, which is why Goku still went to the afterlife even though Piccolo was still obviously very evil by that point. But he wasn't 100% evil, so he was no longer a demon. But yes, then he has more experiences and also fuses with Nail and Kami so by the end of the series he's clearly very good. If I may mention filler again, not because it's canon but just because it's interesting and related, at the beginning of the Garlic, Jr. saga, Kami offers Piccolo the chance to succeed him, seeing Piccolo as fully good by this point, but Piccolo refuses. You could say that this heavily conflicts with Kami's later inner conflict about re-fusing with Piccolo, but even there, Kami acknowledged that Piccolo was good, but simply had a hard time getting over his own issues with knowing of Piccolo's past.

>That my son and everything after is called a retcon and you trying to rationalize it. No work of fiction should force the spectator do so much contrived fan fiction to fill in the non-sense.

Don't use "retcon" as if it's inherently bad. Lots of things are retcons. The origin of the Dragon Balls being created by Kami at all is a retcon. You can argue it's a bad retcon, but just saying it's a retcon is not itself a bad thing.

Also it's not fan-fiction, it's still by the original author. We're not making leaps in logic ourselves, here. It's all explained very clearly. The only added bit is that the guy who became god originally came from space. Now you can argue that that's stupid, but it's explained clearly enough.

>So if Toriyama's ramblings are to be believed the retcon predates DBZ, ouch.

DBZ doesn't exist from Toriyama's point of view. He wrote the manga, and the manga is one continuing series right up until Goku flies off with Uub. "Z" was just a marketing thing by the people doing the anime. It has nothing to do with the story. You can argue you don't like that more sci-fi elements were creeping in around that time, but it's still the same series. There's also still lots of magical stuff going on at the same time, what with Otherworld being introduced.

And yes, when Cell blew himself up along with Goku and Kaio (and Bubbles, and Gregory if you count filler) he got their cells, most importantly Goku's. The pseudoscience by this point had already established that the cells gave him their abilities, so getting Goku's cells from this point gave him Instant Transmission. Before this, his Goku sample cells were from before Goku had Instant Transmission, so he didn't have it.

Yes it's stupid that having someone's cells gives you their skills. But it's not like this is the only move we see him copy this way. It's just the only one he gets at a point after he first appears.

As for the barrier between the afterlife and the rest of the universe, living beings can go to Otherworld, but dead people can only leave Otherworld with the help of magic, like that of Baba. Though it's never clear if it's possible to physically fly from one to the other, you can teleport. Goku's teleportation requires sensing Ki, and it seems a stretch to sense ki from a place that is not in the same physical universe. But then later on Buu screams so hard it rips a hole between dimensions, so fuck it.

>>63036

>Did he learn instant transmission somehow?

Yes. Cell puled it straight out of his ass just because Goku teleported him once. The Cell Games were written like complete shit. It shouldn't be surprising. That's Toriyama's worst writing.

>>63046

>Either you are a demon or you're not.

Yes, but he didn't fully get over that until much later. Piccolo's development is pretty slow and subtle, and that's what makes Piccolo such a great character, even when the writing starts to get really bad. More believable than Vegeta's development in my opinion, as much as I like his redemption in the Buu Saga. Piccolo's just feels really natural and the biggest shifts in his personality happened right after his fusions, but until his fusion with Kami, he never fully accepted that he wasn't a demon anymore. He still didn't want to see himself as a good guy. Vegeta on the other hand was suddenly a completely different person as soon as Future Trunks showed up.

Before that, he was a sneaky bastard, and actually smart by Dragon Ball standards, then he suddenly turned into the irrational "muh saiyan pride" guy that we see in most of the rest of the series, that only fights one on one and makes villains stronger on purpose. Then his development is recovering from being that kind of asshole. The original Vegeta would do anything to achieve his goals, and that's all he cared about. He would have quickly solved the artificial human issue by murdering Gero, and when no one is looking he would wish for immortality. That Vegeta wouldn't give a shit. Well, not that it was even the first change. He was different when he was introduced as well, and he wasn't a prince at all (considering how much he boasts about it, you'd think he would have mentioned that at some point), just some guy that was born so strong that he was named after the planet itself. So really, there are at least three different Vegetas (well, five if his father and the planet count) and only the final one was redeemable.

>>63061

Royalty is referred to by the name of their country all the time. In old Shakespeare plays they'll refer to the king of france as just "France." Stuff like that. Vegeta was obviously always royalty. He even talks about things like that energy ball he uses to transform being a move only for high class saiyans.

He then later becomes obsessed with getting stronger because Goku shatters his confidence.

>>61721

>Bro, Piccolo was retconned into just being part of a weird, slug like race of creatures

I'm glad I'm not the only one who called bullshit when that happened. Turning an unorthodox and original looking demon into an alien is always an awful idea, and that one line from radditz marks the beginning of the end for the series' fun, fantasy-themed-anything-can-happen nature.

>>63065

The Saiyan/Frieza and Android/Cell arcs are more sci-fi than fantasy, but then so was the Red Ribbon Army. Then Buu goes back to being all about fantasy and gods again. Don't get me wrong, I like the pre-Saiyan stuff better too, but the change really isn't as sudden or drastic as people say. Because in the manga, there's no title change.

>>63069

It's a very drastic change, the series focused exclusively on battles with no breather arcs like the RRS, power creep became infamously bloated, techniques became shallow variants of "large flashy laser" instead of clever game-changers like Roshi's paralysis move, and more than half the cast was booted to the sidelines with no adventures of their own. Speaking of the RRS, engaging an army on a dragon ball hunt isn't sci-fi at all since it was 80's guns and the mecha were no more advanced than what Pilaf could toss out.

Radditz showing up and retconning the two biggest characters in the series into space men completely changed the series' tone and pacing for the worst.

>>63070

>It's a very drastic change, the series focused exclusively on battles with no breather arcs like the RRS

I'd say the Namek arc before they actually started fighting Frieza wasn't all about battles, any more than the RRA saga was. The anime I'd say also actually improved this aspect in a way, with the filler of Gohan training with Piccolo, Goku on Snake Way, and the other guys training with Kami. Though I suppose they were just operating more on older Dragon Ball tropes at the time, as Garlic Jr. also has more of an old style feel as well.

I don't think power creep is relevant. I know people always talk about it, but it's fiction. The power is solely in your head, and doesn't affect the story, since they just keep finding new guys to fight who match the current power.

I agree that the techniques and battles largely became less interesting though.

The cast largely got replaced by new guys. But this is much more slowly than you imply. All the old guys are still relevant when they fight Vegeta. Then yeah Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu get left out of the Namek arc, but Yamcha and Tenshinhan become bit more relevant again when they fight Cell. Buu does pretty much leave them out, focusing more on new guys, with Yamcha kind of being there but not fighting. I'll give them one credit regarding Tenshinhan though. He was never really their friend, just a strong guy they worked with sometimes because it was necessary. At the end of the Cell arc, when they think the world is safe forever, he straight up says it's probably the last time they'll see each other. And then yeah, he only gets a small cameo in the Buu arc. Which kinda sucks because he's one of the cooler characters, but it is justified in universe if you're paying attention.

Sure the RRA isn't that much sci-fi (except there is Android 8 and Major Metallitron) but it's certainly not fantasy either. I suppose there's Korin, but then the way he interacts with Goku in that arc, no actual magic is involved, he just tricks him into training well.

>>63046

>Don't use "retcon" as if it's inherently bad.

Asspull plot twists without foreshadowing are in fact shit, and that makes retcons by extension shit. Not only is it meant to write a writer out of the hole they made, it's also signs that a story is being made up as it goes along.

>The origin of the Dragon Balls being created by Kami at all is a retcon.

No, it's not a stretch to say that the god of the world created a wish granting mcguffin at all. What is a stretch is suddenly deciding he's actually an ancient AYYY LMAO who suddenly became religious enough to want to become the god of earth.

>Also it's not fan fiction….It's all explained very clearly.

Him being from space is explained clearly, but not him NOT being mutated by demon energies, or the fact all of his children came out mutated due to demon energies. There's also the even GREATER issue of the fact it's implied that Piccolo is from the "warrior" tribe while Kami is from the "dragon" tribe. Which is retarded since THEY WERE ALWAYS ONE PERSON, but nooo due to this now you have to say some fan fiction tier shit that Piccolo and Kami spliced their genetics somehow and it just turns out one set of genetics can exist as an evil soul… Good god no this is just so stupid. I unironically miss when he was just a fucking Demon created from his good half's evil desires.

>>63150

>Asspull plot twists without foreshadowing are in fact shit, and that makes retcons by extension shit.

Not all retcons are completely without foreshadowing. Even if the continuity they are retroactively adding was not originally intended, they could be built up for quite some time before the reveal. It could be argued that this is the case with Piccolo and Kami's origins, where Toriyama claims he was intending to foreshadow that they were aliens when they spoke to each other at the tournament. Though I agree that's flimsy at best.

Also, some retcons can cleverly allude to details from previous stories which may not have been intended to tie together and imply the retroactive continuity, but can still fit well anyway. That's not to say that certain retcons don't do these things and still suck for other reasons, but they don't suck purely for being retcons. A good example would be Grant Morrison's run on Batman, where the gimmick was essentially taking minor background characters from decades of stories who happened to look similar and saying they were all the same guy, then explaining how his individual roles from those past stories all tied together to form a master plan that culminates in modern day. He retroactively inserted a villain and plot into past stories, but in an interesting and effective way.

>Not only is it meant to write a writer out of the hole they made

Not necessarily. They might just have had a new idea that they wanted to use. And even if it is to write your way out of a previous hole, sometimes that can be done effectively and make for a good story. DC's multiverse was created because The Flash was rebooted, but both the original and the rebooted version of The Flash had met characters like Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, who had never been rebooted. While the explanation is the most autistic thing to have ever been written, it has resulted in many of the most beloved superhero comics ever, including the initial one that created the multiverse, Flash of Two Worlds. And before you go shitting on superheroes, remember we're in a Dragon Ball thread.

>it's also signs that a story is being made up as it goes along.

Again not inherently a bad thing. There are different styles that work for different things. When comics were invented (I know I'll get crucified for this on this board, but manga is comics), each issue contained many standalone stories, and some were successful enough to get sequels. Eventually some series of sequels were successful enough that they felt confident enough in their continued success to begin introducing cliffhangers, resulting in multi-part stories. Over time this became the norm and now people view the entire series as one long story, but I also wouldn't begrudge them doing shorter stories with sequels, as if that's inherently a bad thing. Dragon Ball consists of multi-part stories, but each arc is essentially its own story and then the next one is a sequel. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.

>No, it's not a stretch to say that the god of the world created a wish granting mcguffin at all.

I agree. It's not a stretch. It's still a retcon. Which is my point. Retcons are not inherently bad.

>What is a stretch is suddenly deciding he's actually an ancient AYYY LMAO who suddenly became religious enough to want to become the god of earth.

It's more like he was an ancient alien who developed great martial arts skills, and martial arts are largely spiritual (or at least they were still treated as such by this point in the series) so his journey eventually lead him to training with God and succeeding him. It's almost exactly what happened with Goku (even before we learned Goku was an alien) except Goku didn't want to actually succeed God after he trained with him.

>but not him NOT being mutated by demon energies, or the fact all of his children came out mutated due to demon energies.

He clearly chose their forms, which may have been an ability he had due to being a demon. The retcon is only that laying eggs is actually an alien ability, not a demon ability.

Do they ever say Piccolo is from the Warrior Tribe? I mean yeah he looks like Nail and is a great warrior, but Kami was a great warrior too and apparently looked just like Piccolo (and therefore Nail) in his youth. If they do say Piccolo is part of the Warrior tribe then yeah they fucked up.

>>63114

>I'd say the Namek arc before they actually started fighting Frieza wasn't all about battles

The entire saiyan saga is fighting, training to fight, and fighting again.Worse yet, the fights are dull as hell. You use a lot of words to say nothing at all, and your bootlicking attitude towards a hack writer disgusts me–you're either the cliche spic or some faggot who somehow wandered over from tvtropes. Either way have fun in the filter bin.

>>63150

Don't bother trying to rationalize with him, he's a cuck who will always apologize for any dumb decision toriyama makes because his autism prevents him from understanding that toriyama made a career of pulling twists out of his ass. . According to his logic, it would be perfectly reasonable for Takahashi to say that Lum is actually a french tranny 40 years after her debut and that her readers were too stupid to pick up on hints that didn't exist.

As for Kami just thinking the balls into existence, it's a hell of a lot easier to slide that by readers when a character is divine, but it's complete bullshit to ask people to believe that there are random special slug-plants out there that just happen to be able to do that like it's nothing. There's not even a prerequisite like being enlightened or having high magical power, a random slug can just shit them out like toriyama shits out plot contrivances.

>>63200

>The entire saiyan saga is fighting, training to fight, and fighting again.Worse yet, the fights are dull as hell.

I don't disagree. That's why I talked about the Namek arc and not the Saiyan arc, and actually said the filler in the Saiyan arc does what you're saying and makes the arc significantly better. Doesn't sound like bootlicking Toriyama when I said filler he didn't even write improved his original story.

>filter bin

Have fun being an SJW faggot who blocks people you can't disprove.

>his autism prevents him from understanding that toriyama made a career of pulling twists out of his ass.

What I'm saying is that twists and retcons are not inherently bad. They can be done badly. They can also be done well.

>There's not even a prerequisite like being enlightened or having high magical power, a random slug can just shit them out like toriyama shits out plot contrivances.

The only other people we see doing it are Grand Elder, who is clearly the equivalent to God on his world, his replacement, Moori, who can only do it after he becomes the Grand Elder, and Dende, who can only do it after he becomes God. I think it is implied that it is a biological ability that also takes a rank of God. This would be proven incorrect in Dragon Ball GT, where the Black Star Dragon Balls were created before Piccolo was split off from the guy who would become God. But then I take it you're not the type of guy to act as if GT is canon.

None of this is to say even that I don't agree with your assessment that it is more fulfilling to treat it as a purely divine power rather than anything that has to do with alien biology. I'm just pointing out mistakes in how you got to that conclusion. Your conclusion can still be correct because ultimately what we're talking about is verisimilitude. It's how believable things are. You can argue the explanations given weren't very good, because verisimilitude is largely about if you "feel" it's believable. And that's fine. But if you act like no attempts were made at all, I'll point out that they were. You're free to say they were lame attempts, though. I'll also point out shitty arguments, like saying something is bad just because it's a retcon. Again, the origin of the Dragon Balls is itself a retcon. You just argue it's a better one. I'm not saying I disagree. I'm just pointing out that it is in fact a retcon.

>>61769

>sharia compliant animay

i guess it's true that muslims are some of the most insecure people on earth, then.

Honestly I wish I could have rewritten the entire manga after the goku vs piccolo fight and atleast make the other characters relevant.

>>63010

>and the anime improved a lot of things back in the day as well

THISx100

I've rewatched some Dragon Ball episode and it's ashtouning how much the fillers add to the world of the series.

The manga is great, but it goes straight to the point, in the anime you learn about the other secondary characters, their lives, their training, even Oolong and Puar stay somewhat relevant for comedy-relief.

. Even the animation was consistent for Toei standards.

>>61721

Though I admit Z with its macho-seriousness, sci-fi shit and "THERE'S STILL SOMEONE MUCH MUCH STRONGER THAN ME"-ad infinitum ruined the original's charm I can't be contrarian to the point of claiming I did not enjoy Z up to the Frieza saga and Super, on their own merit they are more than decent and quite addictive for stereotypical shounenshit, even if they feel completely inappropriate as sequels.

>>63036

> how the fuck did Cell come back to the land of the living after he blew himself up in Kaio-sama's place?

Apparently some of his cells stayed back on earth after being dismembered multiple times there and served as hosts for his soul, all his cells on Kai planet were apparently destroyed in the explosion.

>>63046

> If you're not 100% evil then you're not a demon

"Demon" is greek for spirit.

>>63010

Funi refuses to let their Goku be a piece of shit like Toriyama apparently wants. The Super dub is actually kinda funny. Not gonna say it redeems it but there's some entertainment value if you like the english voices of DBZ.

>>75870

>"Demon" is greek for spirit

No it's not, dumb nigger. Pneuma/πνεῦμα is Greek for spirit and Psyche/ψυχή is the term for soul. Demon is the Greek word for demon, although it's spelled daimon/δαίμων.

You shouldn't speak if you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>75882

>You shouldn't speak if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Ήρθες στην λάθος γειτονιά, μαλάκα.

> Pneuma/πνεῦμα is Greek for spirit and Psyche/ψυχή is the term for soul. Demon is the Greek word for demon, although it's spelled daimon/δαίμων

>muh fictional supernatural sapient entity concept is entirely different from that other fictional supernatural sapient entity concept

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(classical_mythology)

Before abrahamic kikecuckoldry there was not a single moral connotation about demons. The closest equivalent would be yukais if the later weren't mostly monstrous and dangerous or indifferent towards humans when classical demons were largely benevolent and supportive of them.

Hexagrammaton-worshiping semitic scoundrels made an anathema out of the concept of demons because they were viewed as minor deities worth of reverence when their psychopathic baby-killing sand-demon tyrant was depicted as having the ambition of being the only worshiped deity, reflecting the overcompensating bigoted supremacist and genocidal tendencies of their collective ethnic psyche, the product of centuries of inbreeding between desert goatfuckers.

>>75915

>Before abrahamic kikecuckoldry there was not a single moral connotation about demons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacodemon

>>75932

Do you know what the "κακo-" prefix stands for?

>>75915

I never once claimed there was a moral aspect to the word Daimon; there wasn't, as it was a word that heavily implied one's personal muse and inspiration. To be diamonic would be to be filled with enthusiasm, likely from the gods. That doesn't change my point that demon/daimon was objectively not the word for 'spirit' or 'soul'.

Nothing you posted counters my point, you just started ranting about shit that doesn't matter, because regardless of what moral connotations did or did not exist with the word daimon, it still wasn't the word for either 'spirit' or 'soul'.

>>75867

You're just looking too much into the drawings made by a sandnigger donut stealer. Even worse is the way he uses DB characters to glorify Islam and Muslims, a cancerous trend that is starting to gain traction among Southeast Asian artists. It is very similar to Muslims expressing pride when a Western celebrity or even a fucking Chinese Indonesian does the postmodern publicity stunt by converting to Islam - it is a real sign of insecurity that you feel obligated to be proud of such meaningless shit.

Exclusively speaking about the technical aspects of his art, since he seems to be in his 30s I'd say he was very similar to myself in that we both started learning to draw by copying Toriyamashit, but he never developed his own style and instead became able to imitate Toriyama almost perfectly. Toriyama's art is indeed unique in that it is very easy to learn to imitate, but it can influence you so much that it becomes harder and harder for you to draw in a style that isn't immediately reminiscent of it.

>>75946

I think he meant spirit as in the supernatural being (water spirit, shrine spirit etc). The ancient Greeks seemed to have used that word to refer to lesser deities. Even the purely etymological definition of daimon translates to "power" or "god".

>>75957

The word 'daimon' does apply to individual gods/goddesses; the literal definition is exactly that, 'god/goddess'. However, the word for 'spirit(s)' is something different.

A 'shrine spirit' wouldn't be called that; it'd be called a 'shrine god', for example. Spirit (and soul, for that matter) has a different connotation entirely.

>>75870

"Demon" is just how the term "Mazoku" was most usually translated in relation to Piccolo. Piccolo was a Mazoku. This is different from other things that have also been translated as "demon" sometimes, such as Oni (which I'm pretty sure only appeared in filler) and Majin. And in stuff like Dragon Ball Heroes and its related stories, there are different types of beings called Majin, but are written with different kanji depending on what type they're referring to. The second type, referring to guys like Mechikabura, has been translated as "Demon God." But if you're going to get hung up about the word "Demon," then yes this is not accurate.

>>75957

>>75960

The greek word 'daimon' (spirit) stands for creatures that are 'midway between humans and gods'. But this isn't as simple as it sounds.

While the greeks understood that supernatural creatures were not yet divine, they wouldn't call them all daimons. Had they traveled to Japan, they would have considered the lesser shrine gods as monsters or magical creatures (not daimons), with only the top Shinto echelon qualifying as proper gods.

The proper daimon is the divine element in human nature, which connects us to the gods and explains our affinities and ambitions. Human psychology explained through the supernatural. The daimon par excellence was Eros, which is the instinct to continue the species, as is divine will. Much of the Christian teachings about the nature of the soul, comes from the greek understanding of the human daimon applied to God's love and benevolence.

>>91926

You should study on ancient Greco-buddhism and it's influence in the Western world before the rise of Christianity.

>>61687

I think the idea of Goku being an edgelord is just something that gets lost in translation. The fandom won't accept that he's anything less than a superhero. But a martial artist who gets to save the world whenever he fights super monsters, is not the same as a cape who would still common criminals to uphold the law. It's always been known that Goku's job is not to be a supercop, he just happens to be a nice guy fending off really bad things.

>>75867

HQ post