/a/ - Animu & Mango

>Implying dragonball looked any better.

You probably read the first chapter and got fooled into thinking this was going to be one piece's standard quality.

>>851638

>Dragonball art is bad

>>851767

>early nurutu

You made me dig out one of those Not-Jump™ magazines that were sold in my country 17 years ago.

That was a much happier time.

>>851718

What's the problem anon, got your bad art in a bunch?

>>851638

But that Dragonball page looks amazing.

>>851634

Yes, actually but that's what makes it so much more enjoyable. Look at the art for one piece back then and compare it to some of the spread pages you get nowadays on just the colored cover pages and you'll see that Oda has come a long way.

>>851778

>Not-Jump™ magazines that were sold in my country 17 years ago.

Banzai?

>>851863

I think it's unfair to compare Oda to Toriyama when one had way more experience than then other by the time they did their big hits. Oda just had 5 one-shots while Toriyama had 13 one-shots and Dr. Slump 's serialization (236 chapters). There was a vast difference in experience.

If you want to do a fair comparison, why not use one piece's chapters past 236 as reference?

>>851880

i'm genuinely not insulting you but maybe you just don't have an artists eye?

Look at the page and how its meant to be read. Fucking blocks of WORDSWORDSWORDS on the edges following no flow in terms of visual language. Its a checklist and is set up like 'shots' on a storyboard.

Look at this example of a random dbz page for example

>reading right to left the noise before recooms leap almost like a small sonic boom effect shows he is moving faster than his size.

>Reactions in panel sizes to show their feelings. Krillin and Gohans are small, claustrophobic and denote panic, vegetas is dark and muddy showing his fading conciousness as he has had the shit kicked out of him while recooms domitates the page in a CIA power pose right from a /tv/ meme as he asserts that the attacks on him were nothing but vegeta is fucked

>Meanwhile the other ginyu soldiers literally look down on the reader impressing a sense of superiority and a "recoom is their lesser and they havent even started but the heros are losing to the jobber". The speech bubbles frame the panel and border the page to show its under their dominance.

I chose this page at random. There are far better examples but the point is toryiama is a master because of his sense of visuals and chronology. Dragonball is fluid action, One Piece is static snapshots. Its a checklist vs a piece of sheet music.

>>851891

>>851880

For example, let's look at the same page you posted as "bad" without the text.

You still know pretty much what's going on because Toriyama understands manga as a medium of storytelling and Oda does not.

You see Goku being surprised, Bulma being a smug bully at Goku being confused at the TV she turned on, her smelling Goku and getting mad at his response. It flows naturally and is easy on the eyes. You know exactly the movements each character does and why they do it even without text.

This is what I mean by that One Piece page is entirely reliant on it's text and tells nothing with picture alone, which is the mark of a true mangaka who understands the medium.

>>851894

>>851896

I was talking lineart and background wise, I won't deny Oda isn't good at using the panels to visually show stuff. The problem with the guy is that he has a tendency of focusing on weird shit when drawing panels instead of what matters and the result is extra speech bubbles.

Pic related, I don't know why Oda is so focused on zoro changing clothes to the point of even neglecting the ship's damage and the forest.

Zoro's changing process isn't more important than seeing the forest, the damage on the ship, the surprised face on chopper when told to repair the ship and Nami's face when she's acting to zoro's saying.

I've always thought One Piece was totally unappealing. I watched in bafflement as everyone around me eagerly read volume after volume. I didn't get it then, and I still don't understand it now.

>>851916

That's a lot of good posts, thank you.

>>851638

Dragonball featuring

>dynamic framing with good foreground/background definition,

>every frame is fully populated,

>you can scrub the dialogue and still know exactly what's going on, which is the definition of manga being manga and not a book with pictures.

>In other pages 'lazy' backgrounds are reserved for action scenes and interspersed with setting from character reactions or to add spatial context.

He also uses SFX and gaze patterns to draw your attention in fairly natural ways reminiscent of masterwork western comics, one of the few mangaka to actually do it right. You can't really see this in most translations because they tend to scrub and redraw most excessive sfx, but pic related.

One Piece featuring

>poor frame management and giant faces on giant faces,

>white backgrounds and characters are essentially the whole scene except for a single symbolic text reference,

>trying to interpret via scene is along the lines of 'I am a laughing man haha', 'I am a child who is screaming at the laughing man', and 'I fist cannons'.

I actually think One Piece's art is pretty fit to purpose, but early Toriyama was and is still legendary for a reason.

>>852137

>Another person already made the points I was gonna make but better.

God damnit, always remember to scroll before you post, replies or no.

At least I got in the bit about eye-tracking in and explained the 'why' of it flowing naturally, here's a comparison with the One Piece strip.

If he made the second panel more in vague left-oriented profile smothering a laugh, then third panel with shanks bent over laughing and looking straight down, then it'd all flow fairly naturally.

Nowhere in the strip is the idea actually completed, and the art doesn't suggest the topic even thought clearly Oda isn't afraid of random symbolism and metaphorical imagery. A cute little graphic of Luffy proclaiming he'd tie himself to the mast using really stretchy rubberbands would be childish and fit his motifs, but that'd require a total re-stage of the page.