/a/ - Animu & Mango

I just want to say that cherry-picking filler frames as examples of bad animation should be a bannable offense.

>>826591

Clicked on this thread to say this. Filler frames, bleed frames, cherry-picking any basic cornerstone technique of animation--something that is supposed to look good in motion, not while paused, is a fucking cancer.

>>826589

That sea king fight looks like garbage when he fights against genos, literal chicken scratches, Murata probably gave the licenseless-rider fight to care about before Madhouse.

I can think of always bad animation if there's 3d animation and it could've looked good but they decided to render it at a very low frame rate for inane reasons like imitating 2d.

Good animation:

Kill la kill

Bakemonogatari

Devilman crybaby

Bad animation:

Soul eater

Sword art online

Tokyo ghoul

As said before.. this type of animation is cancerous. To think only a couple years ago this rwby-tier show would be laughed out and now people actually defend its existence.

>>826440

Bad animation is mouth flaps, and characters staying completely still while talking, and the camera panning up above their mouth so they don't even have to animate the mouth flaps.

>>826617

I liked the way they used 3d in Strike Witches.

>>826648

Dragon Ball Super had so many conversations where characters would remain completely still until it was their turn to talk. Sometimes they'd even freeze and hold a pose or expression with zero animation. It was so unnatural.

>>826655

Strike Witches is very clever about using things like that to retain motion in low detail and long distance shots while still having the good-looking 2D closeups.

>>826591

This and posting low-detail faces in backgrounds or mob shots are both insufferable.

>>826629

>Houseki no Kuni

>cancerous

Of all the examples you could have picked you take the one show that actually uses it well.

>>826780

She looks like she was drawn by the guy from penny arcade here.

>>826776

Konosuba used ridiculously clever visual tricks to allow their relatively perspective-free style to support sheering, pop-in, and rotation, and that's what makes treating it as an example of 'bad animation' so fun.

>>826440

>good animation

Hand drawn.

>bad animation

CGI

>>826805

Is it bad that I want to see an entire show animated in this style?

>>826813

Just watch any Yuasa show like Devilman Crybaby or Kaiba.

>animation

>at all

With how bad every single anime is, you should honestly be reading manga only by now.

>>826797

>>826805

>>826794

I have never watched Naruto, which is hardly a point against me.

Best Animation: LWA, Dandy, BnHA, Darling and OPM in that order.

>>826440

I've come to love stylization. I always say art is an objective expression of the subjective.

>>826591

I disagree. Sometimes they're hilarious and make great reaction images or add just the right voice or tone to a shitpost.

>>826871

Reaction images or shitposting, sure, but he specifically said "as examples of bad animation". Posting a gif/webm like >>826805 is far better for pointing out bad animation.

>>826620

Those are all bad, tho

>>826440

>What is considered good animation as opposed to bad animation?

It depends on the person. Some prefer the flashy web gen style, with lots of impact frames and smears.

Other people want a more detailed animation style that stays on model.

>>826797

>>826805

That episode was intended to be like that, you may like it or you may think it was a mess, but you can't take it as an example of bad animation since that was the intention.

>>826950

It wasn't their intention for it to look bad, though. Their intention was to make it look fluid, but they didn't know how to do that properly so it looks bad as a result.

>>826952

Their intention was to make it look super deformed, in every other scene when Naruto releases the kyubi the reality is deformed and innatural, in this one it's exaggerated because he went particularly crazy.

I don't think Naruto has great animations overall, but these scenes are a different matter.

>>826805

Cherry-picking a few select seconds isn't any better than cherry-picking a few select frames, especially because they're the same damn ones everyone has already seen. The animation was heavily stylized compared to the entire rest of the series, but to call it "bad" is just naive.

>>826996

>under 3MB soundless webm

Truly, a QUALITY webm.

>>826996

This shit looks like a video game.

>>827018

Videogames wish they looked like that.

>>826983

So, that episode was like the others?

>>826589

This is true animation is what adds personality to the anime being animated. Not only this you could also say that it adds to the scene like with the mumen rider scene you talked about. I also hate fags who say a show has bad animation when its really the art style that's bad. This drives me fucking insane

>>826996

>every impact must make the screen shake to disguise the lack of anything actually happening

this is so bland and jerky I didn't even notice when it looped.

>>826629

Houseki no Kuni was great and the animation is fine

>>826983

Again, it being bad is only your opinion. You can't find any objective measure of fault in it, other than "I don't like it". But nobody cares what you like or don't like.

>>826950

You can take it as an example of bad animation.

The style change felt out of place, characters went off model, and this wasn't just for inbetween frames.

That something is done intentionally doesn't mean it's immune from being criticized or being bad.

Pain fight's falling wasn't so much the animation (though there are a bunch dogshit shots like in the OP), it was the terrible choreography. The light literally looked like a slapstick looney toons sequence. So much so that using the sound effects from looney toons or ed edd n eddy fit perfectly.

>>827136

The style changes every time Naruto turns into the kyubi so it's not out of place, you may not like the choice, but to criticize the animation obviously exaggerated it's like to criticize Picasso for not respetting the perspective.

>>827197

>comparing Naruto to Picasso

>>827192

That's a fair criticism.

>>827198

I didn't and you know it.

Pain's fight was good insomuch that it was suffuse with memetic energy. How many reaction images spawned from the goofier bits? There is no chance that a tonal shift to something a bit less serious was accidental and this fight still has you talking about it. Admit it, the Pain fight is the Bane scene for /a/.

>>827197

>The style changes every time Naruto turns into the kyubi so it's not out of place

The changes in the Pain fight were far more exteme than usual.

There's a large difference between the light exaggeration in the Kyuubi vs Orochimaur fight, and the extreme exaggeration in the Kyuubi vs Pain fight.

>to criticize the animation obviously exaggerated

I can criticize exaggerated animation, especially when it's out of place, which it was.

This was the climax of a serious arc, you weren't supposed to roll on the floor because of laughter.

The fight also breaks some of the basic principles of animation.

Multiple actions have no anticipation and don't flow well into each other. The staging is terrible.

The usage of drag/follow through/overlapping action is some of the worst I've seen in any anime.

The second gif in >>826805 is a perfect example of this. Instead of properly dragging behind the main body of the shot (face) Pain's nose bounces around like a noodle.

>>827210

>The changes in the Pain fight were far more exteme than usual.

It's proportional, with Pain Naruto releases all the nine tails, with Orochimaru four and with Sasuke only one if I remember correctly.

The things you criticize are clearly made on purpose, they're not mistakes, they're choices.

If you don't like 'em, it's your personal taste.

>>827220

>It's proportional

It isn't proportional at all. The Pain fight was an exception.

Furthermore Naruto released more tails during the fight with Pain, and the exaggeration didn't increase.

Also this didn't occur in later fights when Naruto used the Kyuubi.

>The things you criticize are clearly made on purpose, they're not mistakes, they're choices.

According to that logic you aren't allowed to critcize any piece of art.

SAO doesn't have bad writing, the writing is just the "choice" of the author.

Everypiece of art is created through choices an artist makes, but that doesn't make said piece of art immune from being bad.

There exist clear rules and principles for animation, the Pain fight doesn't follow multiple of them.

>>826996

Yeah. Half the fights in the UBW/Zero animes are ruined by having the camera shake so god damned much.

>>827128

Oh boy, a real life post modernism faggot.

>You can't find any objective measure of fault in it, other than "I don't like it".

It looks like absolute shit, objectively, and the character is extremely off model. Off model frames might work in something like Konosuba because it's a comedy and the screencaps that people post are in between frames. In the case of that shitty Naruto episode, they aren't in between frames; every frame in the examples provided for you is utterly hideous and completely off model.

>The things you criticize are clearly made on purpose, they're not mistakes, they're choices.

>If you don't like 'em, it's your personal taste.

First off, your attitude is insufferable and you're a fucking cunt. Second, your relativist bullshit ideology needs to die before it causes any more harm to civilization as a whole. If I were to make a dish entirely out of human excrement, it would still be awful food regardless of my intention. It would be objectively bad food, and no amount of 'but it's just your OPINION' bitching from your retarded ass would change that.

Your actively harmful mentality deserves no respect whatsoever and the way you insult everyone present by aggressively bitching at them makes you deserving of any and all abuse, verbal and otherwise, you could get.

>So what if these modern "artists" are just throwing together some objectively disgusting shit (sometimes literally) with things like period blood, piss and I don't know what else? It's still their intention to do it, so it's objectively on the same level as any of the greatest works of art of all time!

This is your ideology. It's harmful and stupid and you need to make up to everyone whose time and patience you've wasted by killing yourself.

>>826996

I hate when they do the shaky camera trick in movies why would anyone want to replicate such a hack thing?

>>827220

>The things you criticize are clearly made on purpose, they're not mistakes, they're choices.

A choice can be shitty, you realize that, right? What a stupid argument.

>>827345

If that anon realized as much, he wouldn't have chosen to post such a blatantly stupid statement, presented like some intellectual zinger.

>>827297

>It looks like absolute shit, objectively

I disagree, and so do many others in this thread. Therefore it's not objective. You lose. Good day, sir.

>>827487

People can be wrong about objective things.

>>827487

There is at least one person out there that considers human excrement to be great food. That doesn't mean that they aren't wrong. Also what >>827505 said; even if you sincerely believe that two plus two is five, you're still wrong. Then again you would probably argue that it's up to one's opinion what two plus two is, because tearing down everything good or established facts is exactly what your disgusting ideology is about. Just like how you ignored the rest of the post just to be an obnoxious cunt, because you're not interested in finding the truth, only in ruining things.

>>826805

This is just like that webm of the woman that goes sky diving naked.

>>827297

I've never been aggressive. Unlike you, I've no need for that to validate an argument.

>>827235

>Also this didn't occur in later fights when Naruto used the Kyuubi.

The Pain fight was the peak because he reached the ninth tail, even if not from the start. After that I think Naruto learns to control the kyuubi but I could be wrong since I've never finished it.

>According to that logic you aren't allowed to criticize any piece of art. SAO doesn't have bad writing, the writing is just the "choice" of the author.

You can criticize any piece of art but you can't judge a cubist painting because it lacks perspective, maybe the painting is actually a shit, but you are missing the point.

SAO does have bad writing for countless reasons beyond the "I don't like it".

>>827557

10/10

>>827557

FUCKIN MASTERPIECE

>>827557

It fits so well. I'm impressed.

>>827557

I have a feeling this will be reposted for a long time

>>827557

Like pottery!

>>827551

>You can criticize any piece of art but you can't judge a cubist painting because it lacks perspective, maybe the painting is actually a shit, but you are missing the point. SAO does have bad writing for countless reasons beyond the "I don't like it".

You can't judge a self insert light novel whose primary goal it is to generate money, for it's bad writing.

Afterall the writing is just the "choice" of the Reki Kawahara.

>The Pain fight was the peak because he reached the ninth tail, even if not from the start.

Again it wasn't proportional at all, earlier Naruto Kyuubi fights barely had any exaggeration. Furthermore the Kyuubi fights had different directors, it wasn't proportional and it wasn't planned.

It's true that Naruto gained control of the power, but like I said even in prior fights were Naruto lost control there wasn't any exxageration proportional to the Pain fight.

Anoth counterexample is the fight with Gaara, who also has a tailed beast inside him.

He goes completely out of control like how Naruto went out of control against Pain, but the animation remains normal.

>but you can't judge a cubist painting because it lacks perspective

Are you aware of how unfitting your analogies are?

Naruto isn't a cubist painting, it's a gigantic anime/manga franchise with 100s of episodes. This was a large style change, which made it hard to take the fight seriously. An episode of a series needs to be judged in the context of the series it's in, it isn't a single piece of art.

If new director X decides to change the character design of Naruto for the next 3 episodes to stick figures, then I can call his choice bad.

And like I already said there exist objective principles about how animation should be done, the Pain fight didn't follow them, meaning it's badly animated.

Knights of Sidonia has bad animation involving motion with humans judging by the first few episodes I put myself through, and this was the bluray! It looked like puppets trying to talk.

Kusoga booru where?

>>827649

From what I remember in every scene where Naruto releases the kyubi the animation style looks very different from the usual, the fight with Sasuke in the first series was even similar to the one with Pain, certainly less exaggerated, but I remember an expression of Sasuke that looked like the one that OP posted.

> And like I already said there exist objective principles about how animation should be done, the Pain fight didn't follow them, meaning it's badly animated.

That's what I'm saying, of course you can call the choice bad, but they deliberately didn't follow those principles so I don't think it's a right example of bad animation.

I used that analogy because the cubists knew the perspective but they decided to play with new rules, so if you are talking about bad perspective you can't take their paintings as an example.

>>827557

Ahahah brilliant

>>827842

>>827833

Except that isn't even extreme morphing for in-betweens, that face is completely possible. In the Pain fight Pain's face jiggled retardedly, the animator didn't do consistent frames. Not to mention that the second gif here >>826805 breaks the principles of animation.

>>827842

Apples and oranges.

That isn't even exaggerated, that's an entirely normal frame.

His face gets hit by a shockwave from Naruto's shout and Sasuke's hair gets blown into one direction, his cheeks wobble.

That's perfectly ok, it doesn't break any principles of animation.

> but they deliberately didn't follow those principles so I don't think it's a right example of bad animation.

It doesn't matter if the choice is deliberate or not, it still is an example of bad animation.

Every web novel is created through the choices of it's author. According to your logic there can't exist any bad web novel.

If a cook serves you a piece of shit it is a bad dish, even if he intended to serve you shit.

For animation there are objective principles about how it should be done. The Pain fight has multiple cuts that don't follow these principles.

That's usually how animation is judged. If you are in an art class, shit on a painting and say it's a masterpiece because it's made through your choices, then people will think you're crazy.

>>827992

Please dont joke about such horrible things.

>>826591

>>826965

See >>827557 and stop the nonsense.

>>826996

That's less about bad animation and more about abusing special effects - camera jerking in particular - and really childishly bad choreography. That fight would look better if it took place in outer space because as it stands it's like a 12yr old slapping action figures together. I know Fate has this problem across the board but it's not commonly as bad as in half of UBW

>>827945

I like it, and a decent number of people like it too. That's how he still gets called to work. But apparently everything he did is considered technically bad according to this thread.

>>827557

This is a real improvement over the original.

>>827018

>I've never played a video game in my life

Good. Keep it that way.

>>826589

This.

>>826836

Yuasa is GOAT tier though. Watching Mind Game on acid was the greatest nip media I've ever consumed outside of Lain and LOTGH.

>>829142

>Not playing good games like Stalker or the old Deus Ex.

>>829180

>>829142

>>>/v/

>>829180

>>>/v/

>>829326

Thanks---I didn't see your post the first time around.

>>827945

>what do you guys think about ping pong

I originally was very off put by the art style but then i gave it an honest shot and thought it was very good. Short but well constructed story, good animation with an insane visual style that ties itself up very well at the end. Not the greatest anime I've ever seen but its very high quality.

>kemonozume

Still on my to watch list

>mind game

Its nowhere near as good sober as it is on psychedelics. If any of you guys partake in LSD you NEED to see this film. The car chase becomes so god damn alive and exciting, you can feel the acceleration even when you're just sitting down. The atmosphere of the whale's stomach is so thick it seemed like green smoke was all around the room. The race to escape at the end had my hairs standing on end, more so since I'm a drummer and very much appreciated the musical score that followed it. The scene where they're all playing around with the piano was also very good, as they roll around to the piano you can feel the keys over your spine and feel the music roll up and down. The variated animation style was fantastic. There is no film more immersive than Mind Game when under the influence. That said, its message is quite simple and its story is quite convoluted. Solid 8/10

>the distortion is consistent, its wonky but it works

And thats exactly why its good animation even though a lot of people think the art style itself is bad. Be sure you differentiate art style from animation.

>i wouldn't say its bad animation because it looks fucked at first

Bingo. The animation is fluid and intentionally distorts the characters (i.e. expanding greatly when gulping down some alcohol) and keeps motions weighted to the distorted standards which provide the baseline for the animation which is why its good animation.

>>828114

>everything he did is considered technically bad by no taste plebs ITT

FTFY

>>829414

If you don't go back after the first post, then you need to be told again.

>>826996

>shaking camera

>blurring effects

>blinding flashes of light

>teleportation

>no change in angel

>zooming instead of re drawing

Is this b8? I sincerely hope I'm not browsing a board with someone so low in intellect.

>>831040

>being this gnew

QUALITY is a meme indicating the _lack_ of quality. Lurk moar.

>>831121

Why tell him to lurk moar if you're just gonna spoonfeed him anyway?

>>828554

That show had mediocre art and animation from the start, not surprised that it would drop into QUALITY as it dragged on.

>>831157

Don't know, his know-it-all attitude warranted it.

>>831415

Lurk more would suffice. My know it all attitude doesn't deserve a proper answer but instead a fuck off. This is how cancer spreads.