No.775622
A little over one year ago, Flip Flappers finished airing.
It didn't get much attention and BDs sold poorly, but close to everyone who watched it loved it, it was truly a treat to watch.
Let's take a moment to remember one of the best anime of 2016, to fight its inevitable slide into obscurity, if only for a little bit.
No.775627
Watched it not that long ago. I remember that the ending felt weird and like a bunch of random events just happening with little reason behind it. What was it supposed to be about? That parents have to let go of their children? The mind break made me uncomfortable, with how the redhead looked.
No.775629
>but close to everyone who watched it loved it, it was truly a treat to watch.
I didn't, it was boring as fuck.
>Let's take a moment to remember one of the best anime of 2016
Not at all one of the bests.
No.775630
COCONAAA
Watching that show with /a/ was a lot of fun and we had some awesome discussions going on.
It might slide into obscurity for casual scum, but I don't think we'll ever forget it.
No.775641
Awkward, angular, and overall just another fall season filler.
No.775644
It was good, but I never saw it as the masterpiece some people were calling it when it aired. It didn't really do anything particularly new or interesting, but what it did do it did right.
It was very enjoyable to watch it with /a/ while airing, but I remember thinking even at the time that Flip Flappers wouldn't really go down in history as a classic. It just didn't do enough to stand out, so it remains as a well-crafted but forgettable show.
No.775646
It was colorful and imaginative and fun. I think I would have liked it more if the plot was absent and they just jumped into wildly different Pure Illusion worlds each episode. At least Yayaka ended up being best girl.
No.775654
It was a fun show and that had a lot to do with the colorful and smooth animation that made it look really good. It had a very unique style and I'll miss it. Hopefully 3hZ can do something like this in the future too.
No.775664
>>775644
>but what it did do it did right.
Honestly this is what made it anime of the year for me. The other 2016 anime I really liked (like konosuba, LL sunshine, Mob Psycho) also didn't do anything particularly new or interesting, but they didn't do everything they wanted to do as well as FF.
>>775654
>Hopefully 3hZ can do something like this in the future too.
Princess principal was a lot of wasted potential. Damn disappointment.
No.775670
>>775664
>Princess principal was a lot of wasted potential. Damn disappointment.
The worst part was that they had a few episodes that were great, and exactly what I was hoping for. If it had all been like the first couple episodes and the tenth, it would have been fantastic.
As far as I know the BDs sold well, and they have plenty of case numbers to work with, so a season 2 doesn't seem that unlikely. If there is one I'll still give it a chance to see if they can do a better job.
No.775698
>>775641
Oh I remember you from the first FlipFlap thread.
Weren't you the OP, too, who said the first episode was shit, forcing a mod to edit your post?
No.775699
>>775654
>3hZ
Most of the credit would go to the director, who said he wasn't going to direct anything again if this failed to sell. 3Hz attracted a lot of talent that could have become something, but since FlipFlap flopped, they all took the blame on themselves and moved on.
It's a fucking tragedy.
No.775712
>>775641
>angular
Fuck, this brings back memories.
No.775713
>>775664
>make a great anime
>sells 1k
>make a mess that has a couple great episodes
>sells 6k
No.775717
>>775713
Nippon's arsenal of shit taste should be classified as a WMA.
No.775718
>>775713
Quality doesn't produce sales, popularity does. Make lots of characters to pander to every taste, cover lots of media to cover lots of interests, add in some otaku appeal like a specific interest and a healthy dose of fanservice, and hope you get the ball rolling with popular artists.
We live in a post-Kemono Friends world. This should be common knowledge by now.
No.775721
>The show everyone was saying could save anime sold exactly one fractale.
ONE FRACTALE
I'm still mad.
Be careful with your memes, by the way.
No.775722
>>775622
>to fight its inevitable slide into obscurity, if only for a little bit.
All we have to do is Yuyushiki it, anon. We've had to fight this battle before several times.
No.775725
I actually think that Flip Flappers would have done better if it were released now after the isekai craze has started to settle and people are looking for something different.
No.775728
>>775725
It was a breath of fresh air back then, too. The show, while not doing anything too unique, just feels brand new.
No.775731
>>775728
True. But enthusiasts like us are going to fatigue on repeated story premises faster than the norm and casual watchers aren't exactly renown for their attention span. Timing is important for capturing a mass market, doubly so for a series like this.
No.775733
>>775622
>slide into obscurity
The show was depressing to watch so I'm not surprised people would want to forget about it, but I can't deny that it was really good it will probably be one of those hidden gem/cult animes that gets mentioned once in a while but most people won't really cares about and proceed to watch Re:Zero.
Totally reminded me of FLCL too.
No.775753
Alright, it's been a year and I said I was going to keep an eye on the creators. Let's see where they are going now that they're never going to do anything important again.
<Kiyotaka Oshiyama (director)
>Mechanical design for FLCL 2
>Character design for Devilman Crybaby
Fucking nothing
<Hiroshi Ikehata (director of episodes 3 and 6, so he doesn't really count as a big part of the show)
>Director of Akiba's Trip
okay
>Director of Mahojin Guruguru 2017
Well that's something. I swear, if FlipFlap's legacy is this guy getting more popular instead of Oshiyama, I'll be disappointed
<Takashi Kojima (Character Designer and Chief Animation Director)
>Literally absolutely fucking nothing
>This was his last work
Fuck
<Yuniko Ayana (Series Composition and really the only name attached to FlipFlap that was semi-successful beforehand)
>Scripted a few episodes of Alice to Zouroku
>Series Composition for THE iDOLM@STER Side M
Is FlipFlap cursed? It looks like it kills the career of everyone it touches.
No.775763
>I felt like using the multifaceted nature of human thoughts and perception to add some variation to the story would be something a lot of people would find interesting, but at the same time, there’s so much you can do with Pure Illusion that it makes things difficult. I knew going in that it would be a risky theme to tackle from a business/financial standpoint as well, but I figured “hey I’m still young, and if I screw up this director thing I can still make a living as an animator” (laughs), so I decided it would be worth the risk of trying something challenging.
>“hey I’m still young, and if I screw up this director thing I can still make a living as an animator” (laughs)
No.775768
>>775753
<Takashi Kojima (Character Designer and Chief Animation Director)
>Literally absolutely fucking nothing
>This was his last work
Most English resources for this stuff aren't very through. Takashi has done animation work since 2004, random episodes of random series mostly. Flip Flappers was his first time directing the animation. Rather than killing his career it might be more appropriate to say that Flip Flappers was the first real change in his career. Recently he's done animation work on Fate/Apocrypha (ep 23), Uchiage Hanabi (movie), and the OP for Princess Principal. He did animation work on a number of episodes of Shin Sekai Yori as well.
No.775769
>>775763
>hey I’m still young, and if I screw up
This is how you end up as an old man filled with regrets
No.775774
>>775768
>Flip Flappers was his first time directing the animation
The chief animation director isn't really directing animation.
The job of the position is, to keep the character models consistent. That's also why the character designer usually has the position of chief animation director.
No.775786
No.775791
Have some images from the director's Twitter.
I don't read much moon, but it feels like this still is his pride and joy.
>I don’t feel like these 13 episodes were enough to do everything with Pure Illusion that I’d have liked to though (laughs).
No.775795
>>775794
Thank you, anon. The choice of music really sets the feeling. This was for the final, complete release of Flip Flappers a few months ago.
No.775803
Images from inside the studio during making the last few episodes
No.775813
Time for concept art, by episode.
No.775824
Here's the school and a few extras.
No.775882
>>775794
This is nice.
Even a year later I still get sad thinking about Flip Flappers. I want more of it, or at least more like it.
>>775805
I'm really curious about that Mob image, what does it say?
No.775983
>>775769
I think it's worse to be regretful of not trying what you really want to do when one is young, rather than than opposite. This kind of show just will never be financially successful whether it's good or not, you like it or not. It's horrible to see some of you guys treat sales seriously.
>>775753
Worrying about their jobs is ridiculous, one of the most carefree jobs I can imagine is those well-known animators. It's just shitposters having nothing to talk about they can only post something like sales numbers. Everything goes as it is, animators doing animation, writers writing scripts. I don't see anything wrong. Maybe you expected too much from it.
Especially I remember Eromanga Sensei sold like hotcakes, and the Fate 22 guy has just directed his solo episode though I haven't watched it.
No.776199
>>775646
>if the plot was absent
>the plot
>starts with cute girls in magic tunnels
>escalates into mindbending transdimensional tryptamine flashbacks
>end with an overt "dyke coming out to mom" story.
Still loved it.
No.776260
The show wasn't as good as I wanted it to be. I'm happy that it didn't go full Madoka like some anons were talking about back then, but it really feels like the last few episodes have all the plot compressed in them. It should have chosen to either be an episodic show about going on wacky adventures or have an actual continuous plot. I would love to see the team get another shot at a S2 but that's just never going to happen.
No.776268
>>775718
Kemono Friends was quality work, anon.
No.776296
>Finished airing a year ago
I'm aging too fast and there's still anime to watch
No.776297
>>775725
>Isekai phase
Did that provide anything decent aside from Konosuba? Grimgar had a good concept but fuck it was slow and by the end of the season they were still scrubs.
No.776302
>>775983
<There are a lot of parodies and metaphors packed into this work; are you yourself very knowledgeable about these sorts of things?
>Oshiyama: I just filled it with stuff I liked, I wouldn’t say I’m very knowledgeable about this stuff in a broad sense. You can blame me for most of the things like that added to the visuals, though (laugh). Generally we made it such that you’d understand the story even if you missed these visual elements; they were mostly something I wanted to add that would just be supplementary. Also, because “illusion” is one of the themes of this work, figuring out what I could do with the visuals to hit on that was also one of my personal challenges. And partially it’s just simply that I like this sort of stuff in my media. Originally most of my knowledge just came from reading this book by behavioral scientist Toshitaka Hidaka that did a good job of talking in easy-to-understand terms about stuff like the Umwelt (a concept that every animal has it’s own perception of the world based on the senses it possesses (sight, smell, echolocation, etc.), and that it exists as the primary actor within that individually perceived world), behavioral sciences, and analytical psychology. Later, the works of the famous psychologist Hayao Kawai about the field of psychology, myths, folktales, and such were very helpful as well. Pure Illusion is fairly similar to the idea of the Umwelt, and one of the themes of the show is the multi-faceted nature of the internal world we each have, so I felt like psychology would be pretty relevant. From there I just included various references or symbols that came to mind.
<Is there any episode that you feel you especially left your mark on as a director?
>Oshiyama: Every episode, really. Many storyboards were outsourced, but as the work’s themes were rather firmly set, by the time the requests were sent out the visuals were mostly already decided. So I’d say the me-ness of each episode is quite thick. Not to say there wasn’t a lot added to each episode by the episode directors as well though. But things like the Fist of the North Star or Dragon Ball parodies in episode three are mostly me (laughs).
Did you miss the part where he'll never direct a thing again? We'll never see something like Flip Flappers again, anon.
No.776305
>>775983
And something like Eromanga Sensei shouldn't have sold like hotcakes when this sold One Fractale.
That's the entire tragedy. Oshiyama will never sit in the director's chair again when he's one of the best directors to come out of nowhere in years.
No.776306
>>776305
>That's the entire tragedy.
No such tragedies. The success and failure of those things are meaningless and you caring proves your shittaste.
People here trying to make an overbearing analysis (very pseudo) of Flip Flappers and what surrounded it is exactly the kind of cancer pertaining to sites like MAL and Reddit, really.
These are fucking cartoons, some are good, some are bad, the vast majority falls into the cheap entertainment domain, while there are excellent exceptions and disgraceful exceptions.
Flip Flappers is basically nothing, it wasn't any good and had tons of audience bait.
Make something greater of this issue is pure retardation.
No.776308
>>776306
Look, I loved Oshiyama's directing and was excited to see what more he could do given more resources. Because of this, his career as director is cut short. How is this not a tragedy when shit like Eromanga Sensei opens everyone's wallets and tells the industry, "Yes, this is what we want more of. We don't want things like Flip Flappers."?
Your position is retarded. Nip shit taste leads to more nip shit taste and you are okay with it.
No.776314
>>776306
>The success and failure of those things are meaningless
But it isn't, ultimately it is the only thing that matters for the people funding anime. Flip Flappers took a risk by doing something different and it flopped commercially, and that's bad, because it was good, and that lowers the chance of people taking risks similar to it in the future.
>People here trying to make an overbearing analysis (very pseudo) of Flip Flappers and what surrounded it is exactly the kind of cancer pertaining to sites like MAL and Reddit, really.
There are very few things that piss me off more than "IT'S JUST A THEORY BRO" type of analysis. People pulling shit out of their ass to justify what they think about some show. This is not what I saw in Flip Flappers threads. Of course there was always the odd retard who made wild guesses, but most people were saying really grounded stuff. Trying to figure out which world belonged to which person, the relation between Cocona, Papika and Salt, what was the deal with the villains... It's perfectly possible to theorize about things in a show without saying things that "pertain to MAL and reddit", I shouldn't even have to explain this shit to you but I can tell from your post you're not very smart.
>These are fucking cartoons, some are good, some are bad, the vast majority falls into the cheap entertainment domain, while there are excellent exceptions and disgraceful exceptions.
Yes, so? People can still get excited over good cartoons and disappointed when a shitshow does well. It's our hobby, we spend a lot of time with it, we want it to be good and, if possible, get better.
>Flip Flappers is basically nothing, it wasn't any good and had tons of audience bait.
I guess there's no helping shit taste. "Audience bait", nice...
No.776317
>>776314
>It’s not mentioned in the story who’s world each of the different episodes’ Pure Illusions are, but if people watching were thinking “I wonder if this world is that character’s?” then that’s just what we were aiming for. Of course, as the creators we have some sense of which is which, but we’d prefer to not say it outright. There are various hints mixed into the visuals, so hopefully people will try to puzzle it out themselves. However, there are a lot of people nowadays whose position is “I want to enjoy a show with a minimum of stress” or “I want to just relax in front of the TV after a long day’s work,” so in order for people to be able enjoy the show as a fluffy story about some middle school girls, we focused less on the story and more on creating appealing characters, included yuri aspects, etc. Ideally we wanted people to find the show enjoyable in whichever way they pleased, whether that be relaxing with brain turned off, digging into all the details, or whatever else. So when I saw people on Twitter saying things like “I don’t understand what’s interesting about it, but I can’t help but watch anyway” or “I don’t get why I like this show” I was very happy.
Wasn't the halfchan threads just a bunch of shitposts? I remember someone saying something like that.
No.776320
>>776317
So the threads talked exactly about what the people who made it expected people to talk about, because they left hints about that stuff, and the thing about each illusion belonging to a person was figured out in threads before it was explained too.
But I suppose all the threads were just filled with overbearing analyses (very pseudo!), because the anime was a nothing.
>Wasn't the halfchan threads just a bunch of shitposts?
I wouldn't be surprised but I wouldn't know either, and I honestly don't care.
No.776324
>>776320
"very pseudo" and "Audience bait" are both new ones. Reminds me of "angular".
Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if he were the OP from the first thread.
No.776329
>>776324
I'm not above criticism of the things I like, a huge chunk of the posting I do is talking about negative aspects of shows I enjoy, it's fun to think about how things could be better, regardless if they're good or bad. I like to think about the whole process of how an anime was made and why fuck ups happen, but saying empty shit like "angular", "audience bait" and "very pseudo" while criticizing people for making overbearing analyses he considers to be useless himself is so fucking ironic, I can't get over it.
No.776334
>>776324
>>776320
I'm this guy >>776306
But not this guy >>776317
Either way
>But I suppose all the threads were just filled with overbearing analyses (very pseudo!), because the anime was a nothing.
Precisely why it's so pitiful.
Audience bait because it tried to please everybody to watch it, and failed miserably.
Very pseudo because pseudo is not enough: the types who like to do these shit analyses are often pathological at that, with no self-awareness, sadly.
Just look at you two.
>Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if he were the OP from the first thread.
Angular is retarded and I never used it, thankfully, and I don't make threads. Are you projecting monsters? Everyone who disagrees with you is actually just one person?
Talk of lack of self-awareness.
No.776336
>>776334
>Are you projecting monsters?
I said I wouldn't be surprised because both what you said and "angular" are equally retarded. So, we pathologically analyze things in exactly the way the creators wanted us to by placing things where they did? That's called being a fan. That's what /a/nons do. Reddit and other shit places inject their own theories and use the source to back up the claims they pull out of their ass. It's different.
And no shit, we know which posts are yours. I'm the anon who keeps quoting the interview.
No.776342
>>776336
Your cognitive dissonance and subsequent rationalisation is amusing. It's always the same reactions from your types. The self-preservation passive aggressiveness.
Grow up.
1/2
No.776349
>>776342
>cognitive dissonance
First you said empty stuff that was essentially meaningless, now you're using terms you don't know the meaning of.
>Grow up.
Are you literally underage?
No.776353
>>776342
You're the type who feels nothing at the fact that Nobunaga Oda couldn't unite Japan.
I appreciate passion and ambition. Noble dreams going unfulfilled are a tragedy. A man's passion denied him and his skill cast aside is tragedy. I like stories like these, which a reason why I consume media in the first place.
Your "nothing matters, man" attitude is not impressive and I don't know how you get enjoyment out of animu with it.
No.776354
Japan has shit taste, that goes without saying.
But why do they continue to create nice things like Flip Flappers that make negative money? Why do they try so hard to live when they could recolour Yuru Yuri or Free and print money? It's admirable, thank you nips. I wish there was a way we could show them appreciation but a few patricians buying the overpriced BDs won't accomplish much.
No.776358
>>776354
>But why do they continue to create nice things like Flip Flappers that make negative money?
Because true men struggle to the end.
No.776359
>>776354
Something's quality and its ability to be monetized aren't always mutually inclusive. In fact, for the truest works of culture this is almost always the case. One could probably make the argument that this is one of the biggest causes for the decline of the arts.
No.776360
>>776359
>always
Meant to say never.
No.776361
>>776358
>>776359
Agreed on both fronts, but why have the non-otaku nips turned their back so heavily on animation as a medium? It wasn't always this way, Ghibli had mainstream appeal and stuff like Your Name seems to be enjoyed by normalfags. Flip Flappers is decidedly unappealing to regular people since there is a fair amount of loli fanservice stuffed in there, but other works like Comfort Potatoes is fairly family-friendly.
I guess this isn't a phenomenon exclusive to the Japanese audience, normalfags gonna norm.
No.776362
>>776361
It's actually a supply/demand problem.
Watch this video here, Anime Studios became akin to Restaurants, living in a hyper competitive market.
Not that the alternative would be any better. Equilibrium is needed.
<https://youtu.be/5_0dVHMpJlo
No.776369
>>776359
So basically we need to go back to a renaissance style funding of arts where a handful of really rich people and families funded artists for their works.
No.776399
>>776369
> to a renaissance style funding of arts where a handful of really rich people and families funded artists for their works.
But that's almost how anime funding works.
A few rich people buy over prized BDs and merchandise.
It's just that the "rich" people didn't like Flip Flappers.
No.776402
>>776399
So basically
>People didn't like it, let us shove more of that down their throats either way because X-Anon wants more
No.776404
>>776402
That's not what I said.
The misuse of the quote function is one of the worst things newfags do.
I myself disliked Flip Flappers, I just said that the reality is quite close to the funding model >>776369 talks about.
No.776405
>>776404
He was referring to massive, corporate-like funding.
No.776407
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>775622
Seeing the mechas from Flashman killing EVA's angels was by far my favourite part
No.776409
>>776407
<Were you a Flashman fan?
>Oshiyama: When I was a kid I made doodles of it all the time. For me personally, Flashman, or maybe the series before it, is the real start of Super Sentai Series stuff. One of my oldest memories is the image of Flash King being broken into pieces, so I guess it was burned into my brain at the time (laughs). The boxy silhouette of Great Titan definitely left a big impression on me as well, and that’s also something I wanted to try using here. At the scriptwriting stage there was no robot action at all, it all came in during storyboarding. The insert song I’d actually wanted to play in three different, but decided that was just too many for one song. I regretted not having three different songs made, but since that train had already left the station I was forced to cut the one song down to being played twice instead of thrice (laughs).
It was great. You can tell he had the traditional influences such as toku and loved Eva.
No.776415
>>776329
>ヤヤカ胸
>ステータスだ
そうだよ！
No.776421
Sales-wise, how many Urara Meirochous did it sell?
No.776423
>>776421
>how many Urara Meirochous did it sell?
~0.9
No.776424
>>776421
In terms of units:
Urara: 878 avg.
FlipFlap: 787 avg.
787 / 878 = 0.896
No.776437
>>776305
>Oshiyama will never sit in the director's chair again
It was too early for him to direct an original.
He should have first made a name for himself by doing adaptions.
Now he is known as the guy who only directed a original commercial flop.
No.776447
>>775622
I riked it.
>>776369
Being rich doesn't mean you have good taste.
No.776460
>>776447
>Being rich doesn't mean you have good taste.
Obviously, and I never said that.
But if I wanted to fund an anime by myself right now, how much money would I need? I'd need to be pretty rich, I imagine.
No.776465
>>776460
It seems it costs about $100k per 20 minute episode in mediocre quality, so one season would be around 1-1.5 mil.
No.776479
>>776460
>But if I wanted to fund an anime by myself right now, how much money would I need?
Around 2 million $ are needed for the average 13 episode TV anime.
The renaissance style funding is still a bad idea, since the art would be created with the intent to please the rich investor
No.776643
I watched this only because /a/ made a fuss about it, I can say I enjoyed it, but it's not something I'd watch again.
It just wasn't very remarkable, the animations and art were nice, but everything else felt mediocre by comparison.