/x/ - Paranormal

>>48613

>Rocks are also said to move and eat people.

What? First time I hear about this.

>>48614

Trees… eat people?

>>48615

Yeah I know, there was even a documentary about the modern belief in elves among the Icelandic people, it was called 'huldufolk' or something like that (meaning 'hidden people'). But I can't figure out who got it wrong…

Is there a materialistic origin for these stories, which became more and more mystical with time, for example, did the ancient Scandinavians once interact with a race that lived underground, but as they lost contact with them, they turned them into magical elves? Or is it the opposite, and we're making the mistake of viewing ultradimensional beings as standard flesh-and-blood animals? Typically, I take the materialistic approach, but I have no idea how to explain some of the stories I've read through that lens.

>>48619

>or is it the opposite

I think it depends, but as a rule of thumb I hold to the "matter/existence is energy", meaning flesh is just at a higher density, and lower frequency, than say water. I used to take the materialistic approach alot, but I found that it's much easier to actually believe in higher-dimensional beings, i.e. gods/spirits, to explain the unexplainable, because you can just say "out of my dimension" and still wonder what it would be like. Whereas most, if not all, atheists I know that don't believe in higher beings do so on the basis of "Science Guy and Black Science Guy do not either, and John Oliver hasn't reported on aliens yet". Interestingly, almost all of them have witnessed literal unexplainable paranormal supernatural really-fucking-spoopy shit, and their go-to explanation is always "no but that stuff doesn't exist, it must be my own hallucination, blabla [insert newest bias pop-science conveniently taught them about last week]".

The point being:

>Is there a materialistic origin for these stories?

Absolutely yes but it depends on your definition of material. If it is only that which you can immediately touch and hold and see, then not necessarily. If you can however, say, touch and hold and see energy, then definitely yes. Postmodernism is a bitch of a headache but it helps immensely to cut away the bullshit. Thoughts have literal! physical weight, making them essentially matter. The energy(/electricity/the Will to Power if you like Nietzsche, it doesn't really matter what you call it if you know what you mean) which make up those thoughts have electromagnetic properties, which is why some people love the "law of attraction". Just try thinking for a few minutes about let's say butterflies, and I promise that even if you do it unseriously, you will be confronted with butterflies everywhere in your daily life. There are experiments in which even clouds are shown to have some baseline form of sentience.

tl;dr: the first hermetic axiom is that of mentalism, "the All is mind, the universe is mental"

Most of this stuff is often more true than you want it to be. So be careful but have fun and explore.

>>48608

In the emerald tablets of Thoth, it is described how "hounds of hell" type beasts come through the edges and corners of rooms. Maybe it works because it functionally-ethereally works as a sort of meeting point between two "planes", like a wormhole type situation just on much smaller scale.

>>48622

Does that mean we're dealing with sentient energy that can take various physical shapes to interact with us? I'm open to any explanation, so long as it… explains what we (think we) know. Your theory would explain how fairies can apparently live inside trees and rocks, and change their shape at will, and live much longer than us, but some of their other attributes don't make a lot of sense when we think of them as sentient energy.

For example, why would they be so interested in our genetic material? Why would they need to kidnap humans and produce hybrid offspring with them? That seems like a very human-like concern. Why would they require that humans sacrifice animals to them, in order to smell the smoke produced by the burnt fat? (This practice was common to many ancient religions, including the Celts, Romans, Greeks, Hebrews, Sumerians, etc).

Lastly, although this isn't strictly related to what we're talking about, I don't believe in the law of attraction. If it were true, /r9k/ would have stopped existing years ago, because they would have all found a girlfriend by now, since they spend literally hours a day thinking about it.

>>48623

The actual emerald tablets don't talk about anything like that. You can read the full text here (it's pretty short).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Tablet

The so-called emerald tablets of Thoth that you're referring to, were written in the 20th century by Western occultists and can safely be dismissed as legitimate sources of ancient wisdom. Sorry anon, I want to believe too, but basing our theories on works of fiction will just bring us farther from the truth.

>>48619

>he's never heard of man-eating trees

Hao nuu ar yu.

>>48614

I never heard of trees eating people but I think somewhere used to be a custom of planting a tree on top of a corpse, but I could be mistaken. You did remind me though about a video I recently watched with the idea of ponds eating people. Like people that are excellent swimmers found dead in water, methane bubbling up from the bottom which results in anything above falling below and getting buried, and how people make offerings to certain water bodies. So there is this idea that some areas of nature itself behaves as if it is alive, wanting either food or tribute.

>>48625

>Does that mean we're dealing with sentient energy that can take various physical shapes to interact with us?

Yes, probably. But again, it really depends hardcore on what you believe, that is on your expectations. There is that Southpark episode where they find out Earth is just a gameshow and the alien explaining it to them takes the form of a giant taco to make their minds accepting of the sight. If you had that kind of technology, a wizard's shapeshifting cloak so to speak, you would have to take on a form that is easy for the other person to accept if you didn't want to fry their brain. If telepathy is real which objectively it certainly is the entity could just pick out the most soothing form for you, and if you're ready change the form, to let yu know of it's "fluidity".

>explains what we (think we) know

Oh boy, where do I start. First off, what WE think we know is really hard to define because there is no real thing such as WE. The public is lied to and gaslighted on a constant basis. Bread and games is real at every level of existence basically. Secondly, even if there was a consistent WE, it would still be really hard to define because of the everpresent subjective observer called the ego. Your god is my satan, your virtue is my sin (from the perspective of the I, the ego). Society can easily be a bucket of crabs, and the world controllers (powers-that-be, them, whatever you call it) probably like it that way. Why else does EVERY 13-year-old nowadays have depression, even though most people are actually really fucking nice and good and basically everyone does genuinely wish for world peace. Because miserable comfort often sounds better than amazing uncertainty. People die on adventures and everyone knows that. I hate these peopl if you can't tell David Icke

>genetic material

Good question. Possibly to "infuse" their own genes into our gene pool, so as to create a kind of "sleeper agent" phenotype. Basically to attune certain (possibly gifted) individuals with themselves, aswell as attuning themselves to humanity so as to blend in better. I can't tell you more about that as I really don't see any other reason. Maybe only for the David Ickes but that seems wrong.

>sacrifice

Not entirely related, but in DnD you get to pick a title (if you play that way ofc) which corresponds to some grand deed you have accomplished. If you kill say, Mardocheron the Ogre-King, you would get to call yourself Anon, Slayer of Mardocheron the Ogre-King. Personally I believe the idea is that the metaphysical soul, or part of it, is in some sense transferred to whoever kills that being. Their life force is now yours because you were the one to take it from them. So, in DnD you would hold some of the life-juice of that ogre king within you, giving you experience points, upgrades, etc. Once yours you can do whatever with it. The tribes practicing sacrifice I think sort of saw it that way. They would sacrifice to some deity, it would increase that deity's personal power and that deity would then bless that tribe or village, to receive more offerings. There is a children's book called "urgum and the seat of flames" in which the last true believer of a pair of twin deities is constantly being rescued by them because once he's dead, they stop existing more or less. The romans afaik believed other people's gods to be as real as their own and would assimilate them on new territory to receive their blessings.

>if it were true

Well yes, but no. The important part is the emotion behind the thought. The emotion is the fuel. Someone that burns in every cell with the desire to have a gf, will absolutely have a gf. Just as someone who really really wants to die, will manage to do so no matter the obstacle. If you only think about the obstacle you will only see the obstacle, and it will seem insurmountable to you.

I guess it also kind of depends on whether you think "opposites attract" is "more true" than "like attracts like".

Like I said, just try thinking about something specific but rather unusual for a good amount of time. Also meditate but that should go without saying.

We came from the fucking mud, and the world is your oyster if you genuinely want it.

>>48640

It's absolutely true that the shapeshifting hypothesis holds up under scrutiny. I've met many, many forms of things, but independent entities I've contacted that are actually separate from one another in a meaningful sense probably number either a dozen or under, possibly as few as three that are facets of a single super-other.

But, I digress. The point is that the "real" appearance of these things is head-breaking, your skull would be absolute toast. In fact when I've looked at them directly, it's like a cigarette burn on reality, although instead of being gross or wrong, they are so very right as to be grotesque. We're not–yet–suited to that sort of thing normally. Eventually, perhaps. In any case, numbers as we know them, or other-ness seems either not to apply to them, or to apply in ways we can't conceive of without higher-order math. Topology seems of particular interest to them, though.

A slight note, desire alone does not satisfy the law of attraction. Someone who aches to get a girlfriend will only get back their own aching to get a girlfriend. Why do you think so many neurotic types suffer The exact problems they fear? The way around this is to go a level up from desire and to change one's narrative.

By the way, I doubt I have to mention this, but it is quite possible and even plausible that we are dealing with living information structures who would have a keen interest in our DNA because that's the most direct route they have to our own hard-coded info structures. That is very likely the way they see us, as certain information patterns, and by interaction, that is, reproduction with us, a synthesis improving upon both would be achieved.

>>48678

I once saw so called shapeshifting in action. It was in a DXM trip, sorry if I have to disappoint, yes it was a hallucination, but where did it come from? I believe I channeled in a vision of this being through the ether, rather than it being actually physically in my room. First it appeared human then it shifted into a dark green colored scaled reptilian humanoid. This shift was like pixels turning over and revealing what was underneath. Ever seen Total Recall? That scene where Arnold Schwarzenegger used a disguise of an old woman, it reminded me of that. The shifting looked like it was through technology, so I'm convinced that they're actually holo-disguises. Of course it was a DXM trip, so you can do with this information what you will

>>48721

Nah, hat doesn't disappoint, so-called hallucinations can be valid sources of information. DMT always gives me dense bits of totally arcane information that I could not possibly have known, about subjects so alien to me that I could not have guessed them myself. For example, it has taken me three months of dedicated study just to verify one single slight detail of a trip from February, about a subject I had never even considered looking into before that.

Of course you have to take hallucinations with a grain of salt, you should know that you will be getting info through your own filters, but one of the very first things I learned from psychonautics was that experiential value is the only actual value; materialism is a faith based on best-guess heuristics applied often uncritically and without regard to the effects of experience.

Personally I don't take hallucinogens which aren't true psychedelics, but not because they aren't effective at giving info, only because as far as I can tell, psychedelics tend to have more clarity and more distinct installation of better heuristics and mental patterns/processes. I have no trouble believing you'd get a reptilian from DXM. But on the other hand, DMT also once came to me as fucking Bill Cipher before I even saw or knew about Gravity Falls, so I can't claim much better in terms of my own filters.

>>48678

>number either a dozen or under

What makes you say that? Also, what entities have you contacted if I may ask? Do you mean "independent" as in completely NOT "just" an aspect of another entity? A dozen or so seems very low to me, considering that in principle the majority of humanity has the same innate capabilities of achieving their highest self, and there are almost 8billion of us.

>absolute toast

I've seen some a bit fucked up shit that's given me literal headaches, that I powered through. But I've heard and read that it does get really "cosmic horror" when you go far enough in any direction.

>desire alone does not satisfy the law of attraction

My point precisely. You have to drink the water to ingest it. Not just stare at it longingly.

To your last point: do you reckon that there are competing parties trying to achieve differing outcomes? Not whether they're at war or anything, just whether they're in competition when it comes to goals and means. I am of course aware of the absurdity of dialectical materialism (i.e. good vs evil), but do you really think that it's a sort of monolithic society of beings "up there"? As in, Enki and Enlil (YHVH and Satan, etcetc) never fell out, that's just the story they tell to keep the wheels spinning for now.

>>48774

The reason I say that is because I see a majority of these as translations I mentally make, archetypes plastered over things I can't really grasp. Accordingly, if one entity acts or gives me exactly the same message as another, I might as well functionally be "the same thing" in that their communications to me are the meat of their identity so far as I am concerned. This is mostly because the first major message I got was to judge by experiential value alone rather than technical details, which exist solely to improve experiences down the line by linking experiences together or acting as proofs or marks of authenticity, for example, details during experiences that I could not possibly have made up.

A dozen was an ass-pull number based on categories of my experiences, but I've seen many times more than that. It's really a question of whether or not a given meeting has a strong impact. If not, if I forget it among the masses of others, it might as well not happen. For it to count to me as significant, it should change my paradigm in some capacity.

100% it gets cosmic horror if you go far enough that you go beyond human limits. Once you leave the mental playpen, all bets are off. But you have to keep going into it until you arrive on the other side, and there is another side. Terror/astonishment is overwhelming but anything worth really talking to will urge you not to lose yourself to it, but to emulate what they're doing. So, cosmic horror is a hallmark of success, but it isn't the end of the story. The real meat of it is in what they can teach you. DMT aliens taught me real magic.

As for conflict, I don't think they conflict the way we think of them. I think that's an outcome of how we can invert any point it feeling, interpret them totally oppositely with the same information. That is, absolute terror is absolute ecstasy from a different vantage point. That isn't to set up a dualism, but to resolve all dualism, which they reject. So, I am much more prone to thinking that entities are not really warring in the way we think, and that "conflicts" are for the sake of the energy of it or the aesthetics of contrast, not something so goal-oriented. They don't experience time the way we do; I know Eden is still the immediate present for at least a couple of them. In any case, I try not to ascribe too much to them unless they tell me stuff about them, because every time I'm in that space, it's a shock no matter how often I go. By now a very welcome shock, but always a shock.

I don't think there are easy parallels to the way we think and operate, they think in ways that we can't express in easy terms. It isn't so much that we lack the language, but when they talk, every possible aspect of every word is infodumped at once, we can't fold language the way they can because to them everything is language, they talk and possibly think in pure meaning/pattern (they possibly ARE pure meaning/pattern) and so anything like conflict or goals would be to them I think mostly an aesthetic concern. This still does not express it well, but short of you experiencing their presence, I'll never quite say it the way they would until I'm among them on their terms, which is my ultimate goal and seems to be theirs, too. If they're leading me on, they have a funny way of showing it. But, I'd rather be destroyed by the attempt than to not even try.

>>48818

By language I mean something like what the Kybalion means by vibration, they could "speak" matter as easily as words if desired. They've been clear that everything is a question of communication in some sense.