b5647b No.16868882[Last 50 Posts]
Although I appreciate the criticism of modern war games, I feel like this game absolutely fucking misses the point of why modern war games are actually bad and tries to go for a meaning that is completely fucking ridiculous
It tries to tell you that you're a bad person for enjoying violence inside video games, especially military violence basically generalizing the grievances that real soldiers go through, saying that the "I want to be a hero" attitude is escapist and harmful. But I don't really see much criticism of that besides "it's escapist", forgetting that escapism in itself is not always unhealthy and in moderation might be actually a good thing psychologically. I liked the style that the story was told in, but the idea that somehow playing violent video games is bad is ridiculous, and the idea that it is disrespectful towards real soldiers is even more so because by this logic even fucking chess shouldn't have been made in the first place. Not only that but the whole idea of game forcing you to do bad shit and then trying to make you feel bad for it is kind of retarded, even fucking Undertale had the decency to actually give you a choice between playing the game peacefuly and shitting on you only when you did evil shit. It also misses the reason for why military shooters are shit, not because they glorify war and violence… but because they don't make glorification of war and violence FUN like something like DOOM or Serious Sam does, or even more realistic shooters.
Not only that but the whole plot is basically reliant of characters misscommunicating. If at any time at the beginning of the game people from the 33rd actually tried to communicate with the main characters like the CIA did and not be a bunch of fucking assholes towards them, they could be probably convinced towards making Walker fight on their side. But instead they shoot Walker and his team on sight as well as being completely retarded in how they act. The fucking radio man literally acts like a generic fucking villain at the very beginning, playing orchestral music while letting a heli shoot at Walker and his team, when he says that he doesn't know where Walker came from and what is his goal, and Walker tells him "we're looking for survivors", he just fucking ignores him and ridicules him. Yes, Walker should not have disobeyed the initial orders he got, but at the same time, one cannot really blame him for anything else he did if no one is willing to fucking listen to him. How could have not sided with the CIA, if the CIA are the only ones who aren't immediately out for his fucking blood? The only thing that Walker really did wrong at the end, was trying to play hero and not calling off the operation early, but even that could have been excused as wanting to do the right thing and worrying about Condrad who he absolutely idolized. He seemed to be incredibly bent on meeting Condrad and understanding why everything happened as it did, because he deeply believed in the guy.
____________________________
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b5647b No.16868892
>>16868887
Then it won't hurt to talk about it 10 billion and one times either. There are games we have already talked to death but yet no one bitches when discussion of them appears.
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014df8 No.16868896
>>16868882
Spec Ops had serious potential but fucked up really hard it tried looking at stuff like Rambo, heart of darkness and others but didn't fully understand why or how those works got the tone and feeling down.
>>16868887
How dare people want to talk about games here
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014df8 No.16868910
>>16868899
> It's like making a discussion thread about doom.
Which anons still do here.
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f7bda5 No.16868923
Spec Op's story was good and the gameplay was fun but the meta shit was terrible and shouldn't have been in the game. But then again, what game does meta well?
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014df8 No.16868931
I wish more games actually did PTSD and horrors of war right because if they actually read more into shit they'd understand it's not just WAR BAD.
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f7bda5 No.16868938
>>16868931
If you want a good anti-war game, play Way of the Samurai 3.
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2441b1 No.16868943
I never felt like it was a meta story, it was about a retard who wanted to be a big boy american hero but failed hard at it.
I assumed that third person perspective served to further distance you, the player from the protagonist.
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014df8 No.16868944
>>16868938
I don't even mean anti war per-say just a game that captures the same tone and feeling of shit like Heart of darkness or Apocalypse Now.
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3b84d3 No.16868945
Undertale for all its flaws is literally just this game but better
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b5647b No.16868968
>>16868943
The loading screen tips seem to imply otherwise.
>>16868945
They're both making use of meta-elements but their messages are completely different. Undertale's message is about not obsessing over video games, while Spec Ops: The Line talks about American mentality towards war and violence in war games.
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014df8 No.16868978
>>16868967
This thread is shitting all over spec ops the line the Op's post was one big criticism of the game.
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ccaa24 No.16868980
>>16868978
Just report him, he's likely going to shit up the board with wojacks.
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014df8 No.16868985
>>16868968
>Spec Ops: The Line talks about American mentality towards war and violence in war games.
I don't mind games doing it but they do it such a black and white way and undermines the complexity of the issues they are criticising.
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b51ef5 No.16868987
>>16868923
>what game does meta well?
I don't know if it's "meta", but Talos Principle asked a lot of interesting existential questions about how you, the player, define existence or sentience, that sort of thing. It's nothing that you wouldn't get from a basic starter pack of Philosophy 101 but it was rolled into the game pretty well. I really liked it.
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b5647b No.16868993
>>16868987
It was a bit biased towards certain philosophical ideas, but still good game. And the puzzles were fun for the most part.
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014df8 No.16869003
>>16868987
>Talos Principle
That's a game I don't hear brought up often and it's a shame because it's a good game.
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055026 No.16869322
>>16868985
Most war games are pretty black and white in the other direction, so my guess is they were heavy-handed and one-sided because the other side of the scale was tipped so far.
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c49b44 No.16869650
Spec Ops is made better when you just play it as Walker's descent into madness and not self insert. Because everyone didn't fire on the civilians right away and tried to avoid doing so in a lot of cases also.
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cb1958 No.16870385
The game is too linear for it's own good. Any message it has about the player is undermined by the fact that the game forces you into these situations, being a linear third person shooter, and any attempt at trying to think outside the box is ignored(I.E there's a scene where Conrad claims he has snipers on two people tied to a rope and forces you to make a morality choice. However, if you try to take out the snipers and actually succeed, rather than the game acknowledging this in any meaningful way, invisible snipers will kill both of them, and the game will then proceed to shit on walker based on who died first.)
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cd49e0 No.16870518
>>16868882
Hotline Miami did the "hurr durr you're violent!" much better with the way you are forced to backtrack among the people you gruesomely killed, in some cases without even stopping and seeing the brutal executions. Especially since it doesn't have to hold your hand and tell you that "BIOLENCE IS BADD" like a nanny dev a la kojimbo, as it lets you experience the thrill and the wear-off.
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cd49e0 No.16870522
>>16868882
oh yeah also add to that the fact you can stop by the first fucking enemies in the game and let your translator do the talking, which should have ended with some alternate ending except you're still told by the game no no you gotta kill the bad guys!
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853846 No.16870542
>>16868968
Neither Spec Ops nor Undertale have an actual message, and thank fuck for that. All that happened is that the devs thought adding some meta elements without much clear direction would be "cool" and set the game apart for the crowd.
What happens whenever a game actually "has a message" is just that the game turns into propaganda for the creator's pet political cause, and creators who have a pet political cause are invariably absolute pretentious fucktards who shouldn't be going anywhere near political commentary.
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c59fe1 No.16870559
>>16870542
>spec ops doesn't have an actual message
It does, explicitly so. The canon ending is turning the game off so you're not a nazi.
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016671 No.16870772
>>16870559
>The canon ending is turning the game off
Gee, no wonder the game failed. If the whole point was getting players to NOT play the game, then they succeeded.
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acf1a8 No.16870793
I haven't played Spec Ops but I kept hearing about people, especially the gayming media, gush about it. It's one of pic related's kind of game isn't it?
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5bbd45 No.16870798
>>16870542
Nigger, Undertale has Flowey literally talking to you about how he kept obsessing over resetting the timeline in hopes of finding new feelings with Sans literally fucking telling you that you have to give up in genocide ending or you're going to destroy everything. Spec Ops: The Line pulls the Heart of fucking Darkness on you with the "antag" being called fucking "John Conrad" even as a reference. I'm not saying that every game has a message but it's painfully obvious that these stories tried to convey something.
>What happens whenever a game actually "has a message" is just that the game turns into propaganda for the creator's pet political cause,
Why do you assume that the message is political in nature? There is nothing political about Undertale's message, Spec Ops message is more political but ignoring the meta message about violence its just the message of "humans have tendencies that make them commit evil in certain circumstances without realising it." which is psychological in nature not political.
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cb1958 No.16870799
>>16870793
I wouldn't call Earthbound pretentious, but yes. The game has a clear and obvious message that gets mangled by how badly they fucked up the gameplay. Take away the WAR BAD message(or better yet, somehow find a way to play the dead as fuck multiplayer) and you're left with a dime a dozen linear cover shooter.
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5bbd45 No.16870800
>>16870793
It's not as bad as YIIK. It's not that badly written, the message conveyed by the meta shit is just worse than the one conveyed with the story, this >>16869650
Anon is correct.
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5bbd45 No.16870801
>>16870800
Why did I think that was a screenshot of YIIK, must be the one hour of sleep. I suck dick.
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cb1958 No.16870807
>>16870801
>Why did I think that was a screenshot of YIIK
Wouldn't feel too bad about it, they all try to ape the shit out of Earthbound. Also, wasn't YIIK made by someone pretending to be retarded.
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016671 No.16870809
>>16870807
>Also, wasn't YIIK made by someone pretending to be retarded.
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5bbd45 No.16870810
>>16870809
Ironically Spec Ops the line did exactly what he was trying to do but with it actually working.
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d4e7ad No.16870813
>>16870809
I'm immediately reminded of playing Tales of the Abyss where the MC is a whiny annoying faggot who everyone merely tolerates and his naiveté gets tens of thousands of people killed. His party members basically abandon him as he begs for someone to validate him and tell him it wasn't his fault in order to preserve his ego. From then on has to grow up, establish his own identity and seek to atone. But of course these stories didn't fucking exist before this tool showed up, of course. Probably because he never played a video game beyond bing bing wahoo before.
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4fc973 No.16870824
>>16870813
Is Tales of Abyss darker than the rest of the Tales games? This sounds pretty mentally taxing when I was hoping for a lighthearted JRPG romp.
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acf1a8 No.16870835
>>16870824
The story gets dark but it's contrases by the usual tales pixie dust and sunshine presentation and there's just as much humor as in any other game. If you want an example of Tales doing this before Symphonia is a lot darker in its themes but it still managed to be lighthearted much of the time. Neither end up being mentally taxing in any way unless you like to delve into lore and backstory.
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4fc973 No.16870837
>>16870835
I actually have both Symphonia and Graces, I'll have to play through them finally as they seemed fun.
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acf1a8 No.16870858
>>16870837
Symphonia's one of the highest regarded Tales game but it is rather long. I wouldn't think less of you if you dropped it. Graces I don't remember much about aside from the gameplay being pretty much the only thing good about it.
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cf153c No.16870883
>>16870799
>I wouldn't call Earthbound pretentious
Because it isn't, Dubsman. Mother 1 and 2/ Earthbound are literally Shigesato itoi's
<My summer adventure back in highschool
<With imagination, WOOOOOAAAAHHHH
and it's just that his writting style is a bit weird. It's that the so called Earthbound community is full of soy guzzling faggots that think the whole game is some kind of artistic masterpiece the whole world must know about when it's just an ok JRPG with a nice story about the writer's childhood memories and cool visual metaphors he thought about them to make gameplay better.
If you want pretentious, that's Mother 3, that's when things go full fart sniffer.
>>16870824
All Tales games are inherently dark anon. Nips aren't afraid to show kids the horrors of war, racism and terrorism. It's these last games where things went off the rails because every competent member of the Tales team was fired.
>>16870858
>Symphonia
>Long
It's on the longer side sure but so is Rebirth, Abyss, Destiny 2 and Vesperia IIRC. If you want long games in the Takes series, try the two on the PS4 and good luck with that because apart from some mildly cool ideas on gameplay and Go Shiina's exceptional tunes, they have nothing else going for it beyond
>War's bad mmmmmmkay? Now let me Rasengan Lion-O real quick to fix the world
>Female Berserk except it falls apart because femGuts lusts for dragon shota dick she almost forgets her revenge
which can make you question your sanity when coming from previous Tales games but it's due to being baby's first Tales game and baby's first introduction to Berserkbut with tits that normalniggerfags gobble them up and praise them to high heaven.
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096002 No.16870906
>>16870793
I don't know about Earthbound but Spec Ops: The Line is more pretentious than Bioshock Infinite.
"War is bad, m'kay?" and "you had a choice: you could have stopped playing the game, retard" were the big arguments.
Spec Ops: The Line is also on the list of "video games are art, read my 10k-word essay", people and journos always talk about how great the experience was, but just like Mirror's Edge or Shenmue, people didn't care enough to buy it because it's fucking boring to play.
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d95698 No.16870932
>>16870798
No, they're just giving you enough smoke and mirrors for you to see what you want to see in the game. They have no concrete message, just relatively vague building blocks to potentially construct several messages.
When a game has a concrete message, it's because it's propaganda.
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cf153c No.16870958
>>16870542
>>16870932
Stop IP hoping Toby, your game was shit and the autistic messages were clear as day.
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055026 No.16871000
>>16870809
"My mistake was that everyone else is wrong."
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4342d7 No.16871001
>>16870810
spec ops did the exact opposite going from a guy making rational decisions as hes given them to a war criminal.
It didnt work at all because every time you do something shitty the game gives you no choice to do something else except for a part with some villagers. Then after the game forces you to do some cutscene bullshit it rubs your face in it.
The gameplay was mediocre and the story was up its own ass. Best thing that could be said about it is it had interesting set pieces what with dubai filling up with sand.
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cfd6c6 No.16871078
>>16870906
>"you had a choice: you could have stopped playing the game, retard
Wasn't that in an interview with some gamejournopro?
>dev, the game made me feel bad becuase my ego wasn't validated as a big boy hero because I projected myself onto walker for no real reason.
>you should've turned off the game, imbecile.
>>16870809
>I made an unfun piece of shit gaem as a joke
Bravo Kojima, I truly understand the strand genre now
What a pretentious fucking retard
The game is ugly, broken, mechanically unsound and tedious
The problem with making an unlikeable piece of shit protagonist in a >ROLEPLAYING GAME video game is not giving the player a choice of what the character will be like from the start, not allowing the character to change and develop in terms of personality throughout the course of the game
Also funny how the protagonist looks like the developer himself.
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05185f No.16871090
>>16870809
>lefty numale trust fund shitstain
>lacks the maturity to make an honest assessment of his own character and commit to being better so he just projects his own lameness onto everyone else
>makes a game starring someone that's just him with a different name
>whines like a bitch when everyone laughs at him for being a whiny bitch
God fucking dammit when did it become acceptable for men to act like women?
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d95698 No.16871146
>>16870958
I'm not intentionally IP hopping, I'm not always posting from the same device.
Whether not not the game was shit is not for me to decide and I'm not sure what "autistic" messages you mean, but you're giving me too much credit if you think there is some concrete central message in Undertale.
I think these things work better when the player is given room to think about topics by themselves instead of trying to hammer a conclusion into them.
You may think Undertale was preachy at times, but the thought process behind what the characters say is just "what would this character say in this situation knowing what they know"? there is nothing more to it.
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cb1958 No.16871200
>>16870906
>I don't know about Earthbound but Spec Ops: The Line is more pretentious than Bioshock Infinite.
No it's not. Spec Ops at least had a coherent message, even if they try to ram it down your throat every chance it gets. The fuck does Smart game for Smart gamers have other than YOUR CHOICES DON'T MATTER and your daughter killing you because you're alternate reality version of some cult leader.
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caee2c No.16871203
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cfd6c6 No.16871215
>>16871200
Unironically rick and morty had more logical muliverse shit which isn't a praise of rick and morty but serves to illustrate further how fucking retarded bioshack: infinite drivel is.
>drowning De Witt during baptism somehow fixes everything in every universe because miltiverse started with booker's baptism because ken levine is a retarded hack faggot
>u r the bad guy because you sold your daughter to yourself who wasn't a deadbeat faggot alcoholic wretch
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7102df No.16871234
>>16868882
the only people that have any problem with this game are the ones who were forced to feel an actual emotion for more than a second and boy oh boy what a collection of assholes the devs are for that. the game tried to get you to relate to the main character whatwith the ptsd, hallucinations, and his descent into madness (starting off cool and calm, but the end youre screaming out orders).
when the game asks you, "do you feel like a hero now?", it's not asking you, the player. it's asking Walker, and since you control him, well…people actually get upset over this because they think the devs were trying to make you feel bad about your actions. the fuck kind of dickheads play these games and think that? when you play a video game, you play a role of sorts. never once have I ever in my life stand there and say, "i'm so sad that I greased those civilians. I should have never played, maybe they'd be okay now. hahahahaha I also dine on my own feces."
goddamn assholes.
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859a33 No.16871264
>>16871234
>when you play a video game, you play a role of sorts.
Undertale specifically calls you out as a seperate entity from the main character Fisk.
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618857 No.16871296
>>16871234
>it's not asking you, the player
>it's asking the character you're playing as
>in the role that you're playing as and inserting into
You can't make someone play what's clearly a blank self-insert character and not expect them to fucking self-insert. If he wasn't supposed to be one, that's on the writers. It'd have been one thing if he did it without your input, but by intentionally ordering the bombing you have a hand in that decision. Forcibly so, which is it's own problem, but still your input.
>never once have I ever in my life stand there and say, "i'm so sad that I greased those civilians. I should have never played, maybe they'd be okay now.
Nobody's saying that, they're saying "why the fuck are you blaming me for these decisions when I literally wasn't given a fucking choice?". Far Cry 4 and 5 knew how to handle this by giving you the option of just waiting a few minutes and doing what you were supposed to do or not acting stupidly.
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cfd6c6 No.16871323
>>16871296
>what's clearly a blank self-insert character
> the playable character.
>He is a member of the United States Army's Delta Force. He and his squad are tasked with searching for any survivors left in Dubai, after receiving a message from Colonel John Konrad detailing his failed attempt at evacuating the city. Walker shows great respect for Konrad and expresses strong feelings of trust towards him throughout the game.
>Walker's life was saved by Konrad during a mission in Kabul. This heavily influences Walker's feelings toward Konrad.
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524771 No.16871377
>>16871323
Self-insert characters can have a backstory. What you just posted doesn't really affect the MC's personality, besides his respect for Konrad.
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859a33 No.16871384
>>16871323
A minimal amount of set-up doesn't stop a character from being a self-interest. Else all Nusona protags wouldn't be according to your definition.
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d8a871 No.16871454
>>16871234
>when the game asks you, "do you feel like a hero now?", it's not asking you, the player. it's asking Walker
Is that why it asks you in the loading screens? is that why "You are a bad person" shows up in the loading screens? Because Walker, this fictional character that is controlled by the player, and technically doesn't exist during said loading screens, can read those loading screens? Is that also why the developers said everything they said in that one Kotaku interview about wanting the game to directly talk to the player? Is that why the hack writer of the game talks shit about the people that played his game in his terrible book? Because the game is talking to Walker, and not you? Or are you maybe just retarded, like the rest of the cocksmokers that defend this game?
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cfd6c6 No.16871481
>>16871454
Does Artyom from Metro cease existence in loading screens but fortunately gets replaced by a voice reading out his journal for you?
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cfd6c6 No.16871483
>>16871454
>anon lacking Object Permanence has the gall to call anyone else but him retarded.
Sage for double posting.
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459de6 No.16871508
>>16871483
You've done a poor job convincing me. The other guys winning, step up your game or else you're wrong.
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808c2e No.16871511
>>16871454
Seriously, the faggot anons who keep trying to convince everybody that shit like this game and Undertale has no message at all is annoying as hell. The games could have made you apologize to the developers on social media to beat the final boss and the anons would still be here, trying to claim that it was a metaphor for the main character having to atone for their sins or something.
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b5127e No.16871538
>>16870809
And this is why games focused on meta shit are just cancer. Everyone trying to make an earthbound "tribute" when they never played the game.
I never played that game, nor any final fantasy before 7 until emulation was a thing. The only rpgs I played in my childhood were some might and magic, a game where you create four adventurers and move arround a pseudo 3d map and Breath of Fire 2. Also Terranigma and the previous games of the same company who had similar gameplay. My country didn't brought in so many games people suddenly say they played and were their favourite because that's the hypster thing to do.
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b5647b No.16871558
>>16870932
>When a game has a concrete message, it's because it's propaganda.
Nigger what the fuck are you talking about?
Are you fucking American? Do they teach you fucking anything about literature or writing in your fucking country? Have you read a fucking book in your entire life? A game can have a message and not be propagantist. Not everything that gives you a fucking opinion on something, or forces you to think about something is propaganda.
I'll go as far and say that both Spec Ops The Line and Undertale have messages that are not propaganda. Spec Ops has the shitty meta message of "Violence bad", but its main message is still aped from Heart of Darkness about humans having instincts that drive them towards evil. Undertale doesn't have a message besides "Obsession=bad", but it's not exactly propagandist in nature, merely asking you the question of when you do something for a sake of some goal, and when you do it just for the sake of doing it, even if it isn't really fun, worthwile, or might be even harmful to you and others.
Not everything is political in nature, even if it happens to touch upon politics for fuck's sake. Both of those games messages are mostly psychological, and the political elements you can find in them are less important than the actual core of the games. Thinking about everything through the lens of politics is just fucking ridiculous.
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b5647b No.16871562
>>16870883
> It's that the so called Earthbound community is full of soy guzzling faggots
The problem in general is that although whimsicality in an art piece of any kind isn't anything necessarily bad, faggots seem to latch to art with whimsical elements because of their inherent childishness. A shame really, because a lot of innocent shit gets associated with them in the process.
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014df8 No.16871567
>>16871558
>Not everything is political
This is something people forgot these days.
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3ab10f No.16871576
>>16868882
>the whole idea of game forcing you to do bad shit and then trying to make you feel bad for it is kind of retarded
This undermines the entire game. The only defense for this I've heard from it's fans is "well you could just turn the game off before you do anything bad". If that's really an option the devs wanted you to consider then that makes the whole thing even more retarded.
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b5647b No.16871579
>>16871567
Political discourse is just an awful replacement for philosophy and psychology those days. People latch onto political ideologies seeking some kind of fucking meaning in their lives, believing that if they just create this or that kind of society, everything would get fixed. People are treating politics more as an end goal, or a philosophical system instead of using it as a tool.
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49567f No.16871583
>>16871558
>>16871567
That's where you're wrong, Daddy-O: http://archive.vn/wmuCt
>Mathematics Itself Operates as Whiteness
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b5647b No.16871589
>>16871576
The main problem is with the meta elements, because the story works just fine as a Heart of Darkness inspired story with Walker's descent into madness, but when they start blaming the player the message falls kind of flat.
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b5647b No.16871606
>>16871583
Someone being a retard and saying that something apolitical is political is just an example of people forgetting that not everything is political.
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014df8 No.16871872
>>16871579
It's such a cancer it's mainly retards from the left but the right and centre do it as well abet at a smaller scale then the left who has way too much control.
>>16871583
Jesus fucking Christ
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21355d No.16871909
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d4b669 No.16877238
>>16871234
>the only people that have any problem with this game are the ones who were forced to feel an actual emotion
But who needs games to feel actual emotion?
That says a lot about you anon.
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809958 No.16877320
File: 523bb21ca49c7ab⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 25.75 KB, 499x281, 499:281, this_is_your_last_chance.jpg)
>ignoring the fact that the game provides a direct choice at the end on whether to accept that your actions and beliefs are one in the same of the misguided character Walker, or to reject that knee-jerk association and reaffirm the difference between player and actor
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b1efe6 No.16877541
Overhyped piece of shit game that was far up it's ass, and guess who enjoyed this shit, the Gayme Journalists who went on to make more pretentious articles about this pile of shit in The Last of Us was criticism against the patriarchy and what not.
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7102df No.16877615
>>16871454
let me know which question you want me to answer and I'll get back to you later. the fact that we're talking about the game is proof enough that it's not bad. Maybe not great, but not bad.
>>16877238
plenty of people do, including you, asswrench. if anything, you play video games to feel excited.
>>16871264
yay.
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