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File: 9a2aab4eeaf93dd⋯.jpg (216.2 KB, 714x402, 119:67, corrupt-course-exc-preview.jpg)

db9665  No.16838263[Last 50 Posts]

What can be done to save this genre? Also what's the problem with PSO2? I played PSU and I enjoyed that. I loved the music and the comfy feeling of standing around in the social hub and interacting with people, or decorating your room and chilling in there. From the videos I see on PSO2 it looks like it has the same comfy social feeling but the combat is a lot faster paced than PSU and PSO. It also looks like it has a very good character customization and god knows nips love that shit in vidya.

____________________________
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8496b3  No.16838275

>>16838263

>What can be done to save this genre?

Burn it to the ground and start over.

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4a205e  No.16838287

Nothing. The genre is doomed because nobody can try anything different than copy WoW, that was a copy of something else, like Lineage 2 that came before it.

In either case, does anyone want to play Eden Eternal with me? It's fun.

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bad1b3  No.16838292

>>16838263

How do you even make mmos good? Its all the same

>deliver x bear asses

The only fun mmo I played was CoH.

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db9665  No.16838297

>>16838287

I've never played Eden Eternal before but I can give it a try. Tell me what I need to know about it.

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49f789  No.16838302

File: 61c02e7dfca4e6c⋯.jpg (25.96 KB, 344x334, 172:167, h64f4x3n.jpg)

>>16838292

So basically >>16838287 it's hopeless because everyone's just copying WoW.

Nobody understands what the problem is, even people who make these threads and complains about MMOs don't fucking get it. From my experience throughout 7000 threads like this, what you want is WoW. The game you want is WoW. You want someone to clone WoW and do the little tweaks you personally want, that's your dream MMO. And this is the true reason MMOs can't be saved; because even the people who complain about MMOs and WoW clones really just want more of WoW.

The genre died with WoW and it's not looking to ever come back, unless what you want is to play WoW. The people who ACTUALLY want a non-WoW MMO are all gone, maybe they moved on to different games or got lives or an heroed or something, the demand for it just no longer exist.

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048446  No.16838309

>>16838302

Let's define "WoW' though. What is it, specifically, about the game that people want? I haven't played an MMO since WoW came about, so I have no idea how to answer that question. Is it the goofy chunky aesthetic? Bear ass delivery quests? The lore? The fact that it has many players? When people say "this game is WoW" or "people want WoW' it means literally nothing to me, a person who played MMOs in the distant past and who hasn't yet completely written off the genre.

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1619d4  No.16838317

>>16838263

>Also what's the problem with PSO2?

Players outside of Japan can be banned for not being in Japan.

>but the combat is a lot faster paced than PSU and PSO.

The player base hates challenges and difficulty so you don't have to worry about the combat getting in the way of your social comfiness.

To put in perspective how little the game is willing to challenge you, there were 3 NCPs that started out hating you and would greet you in a disrespectful way, however, after an event that required players to do COs for them, they got rid of the disrespectful greetings and replaced it with their neutral affection greetings. The very presence of NPC quest givers that don't like the player was so upsetting to the player base that they had to remove it.

In addition to those NPCs meanness being nerfed, the NPC that is spoken to to upgrade your items and laughs at you when your upgrades fail was also deemed too mean, so they added another NPC to every even; or it might have been odd, numbered lobby that is a short sheepish girl who apologizes and speaks in a constantly fearful manner because being laughed at by an NPC was too upsetting to the player base.

Speaking of PSO2, I'd say I'm shocked that I haven't seen a single thread about the US CBT, were it not for the fact that its exclusive to Xbone.

From what I can gather it looks like they already shit the bed, as it would appear they may have removed the ability to make short characters.

They also localized the stat names from things like S-ATK to retarded shit like MEL Pwr/MEL Atk.

>>16838302

My cousin players MMOs and wants EverQuest clones, not WoW clones.

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4a205e  No.16838318

>>16838297

It's very basic, but very comfy. The best part of it is changing classes that is very easily and you can be any class at any time in the game except in combat, and actually doing so gives you benefits. Dungeons have 2 modes: Single player limited to 3 tries, but multiplayer is unlimited and obviously meant to parties. There are 5 kind of classes: Tank, Melee DPS, ranged DPS, Magician and Heal, each with 3 or 4 different classes. Most races have more useful things than humans. There's PvE and PvP but the game is more focused on PvE, PvP is usually for arenas that open some times in the day, and they are 3v3 and they are stupidly fun.

If I have to say something bad about it, is the shop, and even then, it's just cosmetic stuff. Some missions require you to kill A LOT of mobs, but it gets very easy if you are in a party, though.

>>16838302

I remember Tera TRYING something different, but not THAT different.

>>16838309

I don't think it's a matter of what people want or like, it's just that companies are too lazy. MMO is forever linked to "Click mobs to auto attack / stupidly big toolbar / do fetch quests" kind of system. Mention a single MMO that doesn't do this ever since WoW, and, as I said, even before WoW there were a lot of games like this.

>>16838317

>My cousin players MMOs and wants EverQuest clones, not WoW clones.

There's not a lot of difference between EverQuest gameplay and WoW's, in my opinion.

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1619d4  No.16838328

>>16838317

Also no more loli characters.

Minimum height has been increased by about 50%.

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db5acc  No.16838330

WoW has to die, it killed innovation in MMOs. After WoW, they simply copied WoW

FF11 is better but FF14 is a WoW clone

Star wars galaxies is better but they killed it to create SWTOR, a shitty wow clone

death to wow and death to normie scum

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1619d4  No.16838331

>>16838328

>50%.

Fuck 25%.

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3e1635  No.16838337

>>16838263

Problem is times changed and no one wants to Chill ingame or talk with randoms outside their closed group and if they do, they'r brainlets with no idea of how to chat.

So even if you make the perfect MMO people will just get in Discord and use voip.

People underestimate the joy of random encounters and what can arise from them.

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3e1635  No.16838338

File: ff62d53244eea93⋯.jpg (508.18 KB, 519x729, 173:243, Berserk - Vol.24 Falcon o….jpg)

>>16838337

Missed the pic ^^

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db9665  No.16838339

>>16838302

You see I find myself stuck to a WoW clone (FFXIV) rather than actually playing WoW. I guess that just has more to do with the story and music of FFXIV. Honestly I'm probably in the opposite from people here in terms of content in MMOs. I prefer to be more relaxed about it. I'll get caught up on content but I won't touch the hardcore shit like savage/ultimate, and not even extreme trials until they become unsyncable. I've just been sucked into the whole themepark aspect of it like dressing up my character and obtaining mounts. The last grind heavy thing I've done in the game was Eureka, and even though it's grindy it's not hard, it was just time consuming.

What I'm getting at is I can't really enjoy MMOs that condition you to do grindy content and there's nothing else to do otherwise. That's how I imagine WoW is but I could be wrong because I've never played it after vanilla, I only go off what I see from autistic streamers.

>>16838317

Wow no wonder nips kill themselves at alarming rates, they can't handle video game NPCs being mean to them.

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14f20b  No.16838341

>>16838302

Give me more SWG style sandbox games heavy on roleplay, freedom and player-driven economies. You know, if Runescape had any real roleplay opportunities it might be the best MMO ever.

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18cfdf  No.16838346

File: 3b8ac969d67c193⋯.png (112.55 KB, 451x151, 451:151, balmung.png)

>>16838337

>talking to faggots and trannies

No thanks, i'd rather do raids and dungeons with my closed group than having to socialize with any of the fags that mostly frequent MMO's. And let's face it neither do you. No one from here actually wants to socialize with these people.

ERPfags should hang themselves, I have yet to meet any one of these creatures that isn't a giant flaming faggot and if that's what you want of a game then consider doing the same.

I can't imagine paying for a game with the main objective to just talk to other people and pretending to be a fictional character, holy shit is that pathetic.

>brainlets

See how I knew you were a faggot? Go back to cuckchan.

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db5acc  No.16838378

>>16838339

i'm probably going to go to FF11 next, i do like ff14 but it is a fucking wow clone and too fast paced, as all modern mmos are

ff11 will be slow and chill, ff14 is insane with their frantic button mash rotation, fuck that

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524694  No.16838387

>>16838346

I remember hunting down ERPers and publicly chastising them back in vanilla WoW. Had its moments before the gay sex became the main focus of RP fags.

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3d439b  No.16838431

It's simple, encourage and support people playing together long-term and encourage communication. All decisions based on the game need to be determined by looking at how they impact the social aspect.

>>16838292

How can you even make X genre good? It's all the same.

>Y action preformed in X genre

>>16838318

>Click mobs to auto attack

>mention a single mmo that doesn't do this

WoW. If you want to see that type of combat look at Wurm or Runescape.

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2429ab  No.16838462

The best MMOs were the earliest. They just had more technical issues than design issues and lacked flare and polish. There's nothing to salvage at this point. No one has the balls to make games like this anymore (UO, Shadowbane, etc), even they look and run better.

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048446  No.16838469

It's hopeless to have threads like these, because nobody actually talks about the games except in anecdotes. Between people who want to pick up MMOs and shitcan them all as idling games or clicking simulators and folks who dismiss the entire genre as one game without being able to talk about what makes that game the game that it is, there's just no discussion to be had. People say "every MMO is WoW" and nobody can say what it is about WoW that the other MMOs are copying. Sure, every MMO wants to be successful like WoW, because everyone wants to make money. Sure, it's naive to think that MMOs that came after WoW wouldn't crib from it. But what exactly are they doing that makes them clones? If we can't talk intelligently about why the genre is stagnant than how can we talk intelligently about fixing it? I've read people talking about "roleplaying." Well, shit, you don't need a big fancy MMO for that: go play SS13 or an ARMA RP server or whatever. Christ, I used to play MMOs until I realized that I wanted to play them as games with the other players being ciphers that had human behavior instead of hang around talking to real, actual people while playing. And while saying that, I acknowledge that some of the most fun I've had in games is while talking and working with other people, which makes MMOs seem like a great idea again. Maybe the genre is fucked because a huge proportion of people who would otherwise be attracted to MMOs are as schizophrenically antisocial as I am.

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2429ab  No.16838479

>>16838469

>People say "every MMO is WoW" and nobody can say what it is about WoW that the other MMOs are copying.

That one is easy. WoW is the best exemplar of the old Tank/DD/Healer combat system. It does it well (EQ was the exemplar before it), but after it's success, this formula was repeated even more widely. Class systems (rather than open ended skill tree based systems) in games became standard. Open PvP also became more niche, and "battlefields" the norm. Along with "instanced" dungeons that couldn't be interfered with by outside players. Last, but not least, "Theme park" based world design.

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2429ab  No.16838494

>>16838479

I should also add that crafting became just a "side game" (and often a featureless one) rather than something you could build entire characters around. Very few games after WoW cared to make in depth crafting systems, let alone allowed you to build characters largely dedicated to crafting. Crafting became something to merely "supplement" the main game – where the main game was entirely combat and adventure based (and like I said, even the adventuring in WoW is highly curated and theme parky.. rather than sandboxy and open ended).

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715e6d  No.16838516

>>16838431

All I'm getting from you is that MMos are inherently shit. Doing x in some y is fun in a lot of games. Yet in an mmo its bad? Guess we know the real issue here.

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3e1635  No.16838532

>>16838346

>Projecting about ERP, fags and tranies.

>Filename saves & post an image about it

>Thinks only Themeparks mmos exists

>Tells me to go back to halfchan

I thought the board got purged, guess not. Now for the love of god don't try to derail the thread with a false flag attempt so do us a favor and leave

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3e1635  No.16838535

>>16838532

ffs png dont work anymore?

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18cfdf  No.16838543

>>16838532

Shut the fuck up RP loving faggot.

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524694  No.16838556

>>16838543

>Give me my gay sex RP!

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f7b260  No.16838557

>>16838287

you palying on any private server? like Vendetta? others?

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2429ab  No.16838568

… I'd give WoW credit for not having me point-clicky combat. But only on the Raid bosses.

The problem is that raids are niche and for the most dedicated, guild based players. Pattern based boss battles needed to be in the low level game too.

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ccc7cf  No.16838578

The only problems with PSO2 is what passes for a gonzo fucking story they're getting high and scribbling out, and the absolute infestation with currencies and artificial grinding walls in order to "encourage" microtransaction purchases. It desperately needs streamlined.

I'd honestly rather just pay a monthly fee for a more straight-forward experience like PSO/PSU/PSZero/PSP2i/etc - than see it end up like it has.

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49f789  No.16838607

>>16838469

It's pointless to argue because nobody cares about good or interesting or unique MMOs, it always comes down to what flavor of WoW you like. Must have raids, must have an endgame, must have a auction house-based trading, must have levelups and combat grinding, must have warrior/wizard/etc classes, must have the whole themepark package, there's not many ways you can go after you've already mentally established that this is what defines an MMO.

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a6698d  No.16838655

>>16838578

I honestly don't know what to do in PSO2. I'm at level 55, I did most of ep4 and I still don't feel like I've done anything. It's so confusing.

I'm probably going to give up playing the game and just try to talk to Japs instead.

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f7b260  No.16838660

>>16838655

if you do your weeklies and dailies nowadays you can get a class to 90 very fast

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3d439b  No.16838661

>>16838568

>Pattern based boss battles needed to be in the low level game too.

5 mans had those as of BC at least.

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2429ab  No.16838664

>>16838661

My bad. It's been awhile tbh.

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a6698d  No.16838666

>>16838660

But then what?

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2429ab  No.16838673

>>16838607

It's akin to punk rock. Started off with all kinds of interesting branches, then once the Ramones or maybe Sex Pistols came (not knocking those bands, I like them fine on their own), "punk" was only known by a particular formula.. Chuck Berry esque riffs, snarling spiky haired musicians, cloth pins and ripped t-shirts, etc.. Fast forward 20 or even 30 years and it's still the same paint-by-numbers punk genre. That's WoW for you. Pretty great exemplar of what it was trying to be, but so dominant that the entire genre can't escape it's design now.

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f7b260  No.16838677

>>16838666

pick another class/character and get it to 90

Grind events

Grind for money to buy costumes and shit

Uncap your prefered weapons….

add abilities

Waste your life on another meaningless VIDEOGAME

Wait for the next update

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7847e6  No.16838692

MMO is not a genre, it is a feature.

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2429ab  No.16838696

Best "endgame" I ever saw was Shadowbane…. when it actually worked (it was a clusterfuck). Guilds had pretty decent castle/city building, and there were open pvp battles with sieges. To top it off, the devs sometimes logged in as god level characters and played shady ass politics among the guilds themselves, and made deals where they'd aid guilds into helping destroy rival cities. They'd stay totally in character and it made these live pvp events much more rich and dynamic from a storytelling perspective.

Only problem was that it was hard to rebuild and got demoralizing if you were on the receiving end of that. Like my guild was once the most powerful on the server… so the devs thought we were fair game to turn on. It was fun while it lasted, but it pissed off many and they stopped playing.

That's just one small example that has nothing to do with raids or buying costumes as an "endgame". Is anyone doing anything similar now?

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2429ab  No.16838706

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Nice.. found a vid, if anyone's interested. This game had technical setbacks, but it was a great design. Needs to be done again.

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5801c0  No.16838755

>>16838706

that makes me think

what kind of sandbox MMORPG could there be where the wolves and sheep would both be satisfied without getting to the point where the wolves chase all of the sheep away?

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ee81f9  No.16838763

>Also what's the problem with PSO2?

Three big ones have always topped the charts for me, and lately, it's been so bad that I'm considering dropping the game despite having enjoyed it since open beta.

1 - lack of end game content. There's never been any endgame to speak of in PSO2, and every new update brings a new tier of shit that makes everything before it irrelevant. This wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the drop rates.

2 - drop rates. PSO2's drop rates for anything worth having are so bad that the producer has had to publicly apologize for it in the past. Times were you could work toward good gear through the collect file, but when Episode 5 started, Sega made it so the collect file only gives out garbage weapons linked to the current seasonal event. Not surprisingly, this coincides with PSO2 bleeding players so bad that Sega actually went through with the western release.

3 - manic depressive difficulty spikes and valleys. Sega has an incredibly hard time balancing content between the casual whales that are just there to dress up their loli and the uber autists who have like +600 in each stat on all of their gear. Sega had been handling this well until recently by having the uber autist content be stuff you do for shits and giggles, but recently, they've been locking character progression behind shit like solo S rank clearing the ultra hard Profound Darkness emergency quest. Those of us who are hated by RNJesus and don't have a team for tree buffs are stuck with gimped characters until the welfare gear gets good enough to do the uber autist stuff, but the western release will kill PSO2 long before that happens.

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2429ab  No.16838767

>>16838755

After watching that vid, it seems that Crowfall (made by one of the Shadowbane designers) is trying to learn from some of those mistakes. I'm not sure how though. I haven't kept up with Crowfall, but now my interest is piqued knowing who's behind it.

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a6698d  No.16838777

File: 448d0a7ccefa87a⋯.jpg (50.56 KB, 426x424, 213:212, obsessed.jpg)

>>16838677

Huh. So dressing up is the endgame.

>>16838763

> but the western release will kill PSO2 long before that happens

What makes you say that?

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ada3d3  No.16838778

>>16838763

I heard the NA version will have the height sliders adjusted so you can't make loli's too short, is this true?

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ee81f9  No.16838791

>>16838777

PSO2 coming west will inevitably bring SJWs to infect it. They'll REE about stuff like the slutwear or the dedicated sliders for tits and ass, so Sega will stop implementing that kind of stuff in the JP version since the precedent seems to be that the JP companies censor even their domestic releases to suit SJWs. Sony may even force Sega's hand in this if Sega doesn't do it willingly. As slutwear is what keeps the whales paying for PSO2, the censorship will drive off the whales and kill the game.

>>16838778

I have no idea. I have no reason to leave the JP version, so I've never even looked into how badly the NA release is already being censored. It wouldn't surprise me to find out this was true. I wonder if the tit and ass sliders got cut from the western release.

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4bc2b9  No.16838802

>>16838263

>what's the problem with PSO2

Now there's a question. The biggest one is that it simply isn't fun. The enemies move like diabetics through molasses, there are a depressing amount of safety nets (everyone in a 12-man MPA can carry 10 moon atomizers that each revive everyone in an enormous radius), and the biggest one is probably that players are TOO mobile. You can animation cancel almost anything with a dodge and you're never penalized for doing so. Enemies have neither the speed nor the AI to punish players for dodging incorrectly, if they aren't already dead in the case of trash mobs. (This has always been a problem with the ridiculous amount of time that it takes enemies just to start attacking, but as the game has grown older, player dps has grown increasingly out of control, and in most large missions enemies die before you can even see them.) The end result is that the entire gameplay loop is reduced to dodge, attack, repeat. The only thing it offers that even resembles a challenge is how some enemies are so pathetically slow that the first time you fight them, you might miss a dodge for seeing the attack and pressing a button to early. The game is also grindy, there's very little variation, Japanese players are notoriously introverted and find speaking outside of private chats very rude (like you're yelling in a crowded subway station) so there's little socialization, and every update just tacks on more useless garbage. The game is overflowing with missions that used to give the best gear but don't anymore so no one plays them, side systems (crafting and gathering) that are only used once and discarded, and a growing list of currencies and redeemable items for weapons and boosts that are almost immediately deprecated in favor of the newer, better items. I know that Japanese players used to call it Pick-up Stones Online 2 because at one point, the entire game was just an endless quest to pick up stones to trade in for better weapons.

As for MMOs, it's too late. No one wants to admit it, but MMOs depend on casuals. That low-investment, boring player that no one wants to deal with? They fill out the world in MMOs. Without the casuals, there's nothing interesting at gathering spots or mobs, the market stalls for lack of goods, the PvP hotspots die for lack of activity, or if there's real world PvP with real stakes, everything is consolidated around the biggest names with the biggest numbers, and everyone shores up their holdings and waits, because they have too much invested and too much to lose. If you don't have casuals, who gawks at your epic gear when you stroll through the biggest town on the server? Who does the trader fleece for money? Who does the PvPer have fun stomping? Who do you watch when you just go to the central hub to see the crowds pass by? No one. And the casuals will not come back - they've moved on. The same people who'd drop in to EverQuest or WoW or whatever ten, fifteen years ago? They have a better source for their shallow entertainment. You know what I mean - they all moved on to mobile games. MMOs were a special thing for a brief moment in time when the internet was still new and cool, but not so new that it couldn't handle big servers and thousands of simultaneous connections. People who wouldn't normally be interested flocked to them because they were the hottest new thing, because you couldn't get that experience anywhere else, and because the internet still wasn't cheap, common, or easy to use, people didn't treat it like a utility. But the people who would fill up the playercount would much rather get their dopamine drip-feed from their smartphones now, and they have no patience for talking to people who don't reaffirm everything they say and think. Even if there was some MMO that had mobile support, and somehow it enticed the casuals, they'd just be silent all the time so they can talk in discord or facebook or whatever, and that's when they aren't like statues because they put their phone into their pocket for a few minutes or swiped to something more interesting. MMOs as we knew them are dead, and they aren't coming back.

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f7b260  No.16838806

File: 2f728d974e80316⋯.png (1.52 MB, 1158x596, 579:298, pso-2-stuff-1.png)

File: 6fc82d7a82833a1⋯.png (1.58 MB, 1448x613, 1448:613, more pso2 stuff.png)

>>16838777

>Dressing up is the endgame

>>16838791

>slutwear

>dedicated sliders for tits and ass

they will be missed

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a66200  No.16838815

>>16838806

Half of that's softcore porn level bad. There's creatively provocative, and then there's "how little can we get away with in this commercial game before people yell at us." It actually doesn't bother me when it's horny autists doing it in their indie porn games or lewd Elder Scrolls mods, but there's something uncomfortable about real developers doing it.

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4c3fbf  No.16838819

File: 15f1aeff3f3fb09⋯.png (21.16 KB, 675x630, 15:14, toad alert.png)

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ee81f9  No.16838838

File: a77b2f33b6db916⋯.jpg (498.21 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, ファンタシースターオンライン2_2018040300….jpg)

>>16838806

What I'll miss the most is the muscle slider. PSO2 is the only game I've ever played where I can make a proper fit girl because the muscle slider alters shaders to create a low bodyfat look instead of just adding muscle mass. God help me for saying this, but I'm actually glad Phantasy Star Nova exists now because at least SJWs can't censor that, and Nova's character creator is just PSO2's copypasted.

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005a90  No.16838839

File: eb8da331dba4849⋯.gif (977.74 KB, 350x197, 350:197, Buddha.gif)

>>16838815

Considering the amount of titty and ass i've seen in my life, I value platonic, non-lustful creativity.

People who pick skimpy anime girls as their avatars in a multiplayer game where the purpose is to use said avatar to converse with others are the most insecure with their sexuality, and are infatuated with the idea of being a woman due to envy of women's status borne of weakness of mind.

I only want to be the best version of my self, and I would rather fuck a woman then be one. Why? Because i'm a dude, have no issue with that. I don't want to be anything else.

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2429ab  No.16838841

>>16838839

Amen…. Buddha.

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a6698d  No.16838847

>>16838839

Oh no, you're not starting that conversation for the millionth time.

>>16838838

Is Nova actually good?

>>16838791

They might censor the western version, but there's no way they'll do the same for JP. There would be a riot.

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005a90  No.16838848

File: e3430dd763194c4⋯.gif (641.53 KB, 240x180, 4:3, dick fireworks.gif)

>>16838841

Go, my child, and use your dick to fuck vagina. Amen.

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005a90  No.16838851

File: d2fe96e46d301dc⋯.jpeg (146.72 KB, 489x738, 163:246, FBE07EF3-2A29-4E12-A193-1….jpeg)

>>16838847

Hey, I'm just saying, using a female avatar in a single player game is okay because you're controlling a character if that's all you're doing it for (To look at girl booty), but you damn well know that 50/50 someone's doing it because they want to BE the girl.

It's only acceptable if the polygon count is high enough to let the booby bounce and the booty pounce, but making your character a girl for the sake of it instead of ogling the booty is sinful and it makes you super transgender gay.

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ee81f9  No.16838853

>>16838847

No, Nova is not good. All Tri-Ace had to do was copypaste the Vita version of PSO2. Instead, they tried to reinvent the wheel, and the result was such hot garbage that Tri-Ace had to go into mobile game development to avoid going bankrupt.

As for the censorship issue, there's already tons of precedent of the Japanese version of games being censored for SJW tastes. Star Ocean 5's grannie panty debacle comes to mind pretty quick, Kandagawa Jet Girls was mutilated during development because of "global standards", the list goes on and on. In the case of PSO2, I predict that currently implemented stuff won't be censored in the Japanese version, but Sega will just stop adding new slutwear to avoid issues with Sony and other SJWs.

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18cfdf  No.16838854

File: 4518abe46599b23⋯.png (878.04 KB, 728x1329, 728:1329, paxiti.png)

File: 0484d9a073e8742⋯.jpg (75.27 KB, 530x497, 530:497, trannies.jpg)

>>16838851

That's the argument trannies use buddy. I just like the female body.

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2429ab  No.16838857

If I do make female character, they're probably boring.. relatively speaking. I do things just out of a certain RP concept.

Then again, someone might say RP is even more gay.

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005a90  No.16838860

File: ee23f602601969e⋯.jpg (11.32 KB, 259x195, 259:195, smug furry.jpg)

>>16838857

RP is perhaps the least gay thing in the world as long as you roleplay as a gay furry.

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005a90  No.16838869

File: 6e914e45f7fe537⋯.png (233.32 KB, 607x428, 607:428, the furries are less degen….png)

>>16838863

I mean it's really live and let live on the avatar thing, but people react so defensively to it that it's hard not being provocative about it. It's free entertainment.

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34b838  No.16838873

>>16838854

Takes one to know one.

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18cfdf  No.16838879

>>16838863

Trannies are the ones that use that argument to try to persuade insecure males into their shitty cult following, I even posted proof of it.

Sharing the same views as these "people" should be a bannable offense, I don't care if you like playing as a male or a female, but I'm not gonna see this shit invested with lgbt bullshit porpaganda. So fuck off.

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005a90  No.16838883

File: dc9259b2629fcef⋯.jpg (5.44 KB, 225x225, 1:1, MC Ride.jpg)

>>16838873

>A dude walks into a bar with his girlfriend, goes to the bathroom

>Sees a dude fucking another dude in the ass

>dude stop fucking in the bathroom that's gay

>"how do you know?" says the gay man

<Suddenly the accidental voyeur's bitchin' Slayer t-shirt starts shrinking into a belly shirt

<His jean pants suddenly lose a shit-ton of fabric and turn pink, they are now hotpants

<his hair starts going rainbow colors and explodes body glitter like a mushroom releasing it's spores

<he suddenly has a craving for dick

<goddammit now i'm gay

<because apparently it takes one to know one

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2429ab  No.16838884

>>16838882

45? What did I miss.. what is that? I thought JP was somewhat resistant.

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18cfdf  No.16838885

>>16838882

Go back.

Why is cuckchan raiding at this hour

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cb3afb  No.16838892

>>16838854

reminder that "trans rights" is an ideological rallying cry, trans people already have rights

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18cfdf  No.16838895

>>16838884

He lost the argument so now he's gonna sort to something completely irrelevant to try to seem like he's right. He'll keep doing it.

>>16838892

They deserve no rights.

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a6698d  No.16838904

File: 5659b9518e5b019⋯.jpg (506.9 KB, 1776x1000, 222:125, pso20200202_234223_000.jpg)

I hate these stupid conversations. I just want to look at a girl that I want to fuck, not be her. How hard is this to understand?

>>16838853

Man, Tri-Ace sure went to shit, huh. That's really a shame, I was actually interested in a newer single player focused PS game.

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2429ab  No.16838905

>>16838891

>Dude, Japan has been an American-israeli trading post ever since Bushido was destroyed.

There's still a lot of macho culture there. And the acceptance of faggotry is like.. exaggerated. They still haven't done much of what the West does, where fags and trannies are passed off as normal people. Like maybe we're the US was in the 80s or 90s.. if that makes sense. But it could all change for the worse, you're right.

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f0223e  No.16838912

>>16838891

>hurr durr posting

You really are from cuckchan.

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4a205e  No.16838988

>>16838431

>Click mobs to auto-attack

>Not WoW

Also, WoW is filled with tool bar as well.

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0a91a4  No.16839185

>>16838905

> And the acceptance of faggotry is like.. exaggerated. They still haven't done much of what the West does, where fags and trannies are passed off as normal people.

I think it's less acceptance and more indifference. who gives a shit who and what you fuck when you don't scream it in people faces and just put on a dress and a wig without zero effort?

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2258ff  No.16839210

>>16838337

its not that i dont want to talk to randoms, the problem is that you never know when one of the randoms will be paperskin faggot that will report you for saying bad words or having bad thoughts and get you banned.

even private servers, most of the popular ones at least, are chockfull of rulecucks, faggots, and trannies, that only want to talk about cutesy inoffensive shit that doesnt hurt anybodys feefees.

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fc554e  No.16839218

There's some interesting discussion about this in Julay

https://julay.world/v/res/6755.html

The points are mostly the same; people are too fixated on what WOW is like and are missing all kinds of possibilities that could exist in this genre.

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db9665  No.16839237

>>16839210

Maybe that's why Discord becomes an option for some people. A place to feel safe saying bad words like nigger without risk of getting banned. Even in guild chats there could be some asshole who decides to report you.

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a786bb  No.16839238

File: e2f6b7ab0b2606c⋯.png (49.07 KB, 220x220, 1:1, Slither.png)

>Slither.io[a] is a massively multiplayer online video game available for iOS, Android, and web browsers

how bout that

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2258ff  No.16839240

>>16839237

>Maybe that's why Discord becomes an option for some people.

what kind of retard actually thinks discord is a place to speak free from censorship? discord bans you for saying bad words and having bad thoughts if someone reports your channel to the central discord moderators.

sharing some loli? maybe some cub porn? or maybe some racist moonman memes? all it takes is for someone to report you to the central discord authority and your entire channel will get wiped, and participating accounts will go for "review" to see who was naughty or nice enough to stay on their dystopian bullshit platform.

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db9665  No.16839245

>>16839240

But also there's a big difference between losing your Discord account that you just use to talk to people versus losing a game account you probably spent hundreds of hours on. If you really gave a shit about being banned on Discord you'd use a VPN then just make a new account.

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2258ff  No.16839246

>>16839245

might as well just use Steam groups then, they at least have no track record (that i know of) of banning people for wrong-think or wrong-share

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000000  No.16839249

>>16839246

Steam group chat came into the game a little too late it looks like. They had such a good opportunity too since it was a program virtually everyone always had. Valve once again showing how utterly incompetent they are. Though the steam group chats do have some "issues". The chats don't log passed 2 weeks, which is technically a good thing for privacy, but normalfags don't care about privacy they care about convenience.

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db5acc  No.16839261

i'm so fucking tired of fucking WoW clones (SWTOR, FF14), even ESO is kind of boring.

The only choice is to go back to Final Fantasy 11 and Star Wars Galaxies.

You can buy and sub FF11 and there's a popular free private server for SWG

Avoid modern MMORPGs like the cancer they are. They have no fucking soul

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db5acc  No.16839262

>>16839261

also, Ultima Online and Everquest are still running, so that's an option too if that's your thing

Final Fantasy 11 full soundtrack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP1vZhGfgeQ

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db5acc  No.16839263

>>16839262

and Final Fantasy 14 is the "best" of modern MMOs but it's still a pile of shit, a horrible grind that makes you sit through 200 hours of cutscenes. I'm reaching level 80 now, about to do the final story quests and i feel like blowing my brains out

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000000  No.16839267

>>16839261

Even old school MMORPG's are the same shit. WoW was built on those shitty systems, the only thing it really changed was evolving from the god awful mobility old school MMO's had and being significantly more responsive rather than playing like a fucking graphical MUD.

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db5acc  No.16839271

>>16839267

true, but games back then had soul

my first game was super mario bros in 1989. I can't even think of any modern games past 2006 at the latest that have soul.

I just bought FF11. Maybe it's outdated, etc, but at least it has a soul.

At this point, gamers just want a fucking game with a soul

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000000  No.16839275

>>16839271

Old games in generally are typically much better, less bloated, and have very solid controls. Old MMO's are the exception to this rule and are almost always just really shitty archaic messes. The only game that managed to sit right in the middle of having old school "soul" while feeling responsive was vanilla WoW. Don't get me wrong, vanilla WoW fucking sucks, but that's just the state of MMO's. No future MMO made will ever be good because it's a dead genre and all there is are severely bloated clunky chink-shit MMO's, and every single old MMO in existence sucks dick. We simply didn't get lucky enough with the genre and there's no longer any future in it.

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2258ff  No.16839278

>>16839271

FFXI is great. even the modern retail version, which is a powercreep fest with gear tier bullshit, is still enjoyable for a few months for anyone whos new to it.

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160783  No.16839287

I sometimes wonder if the MMORPG genre was intentionally sabotaged by some kind of overarching gaming publisher mafia/illuminati.

Actually a more plausible theory than the idea that it's all the player's fault, that the 'community' isn't there anymore. Player behavior changed for the worse because they adapted to the failed trash games they were forcefed for over a fucking decade, not the other way around.

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619324  No.16839339

File: 0fbeee919f4b1f3⋯.jpg (58.38 KB, 1024x444, 256:111, would you look at that.jpg)

>>16839271

>muh soul

This is another shitty cuckchan meme isn't it?

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2a8e57  No.16839346

>>16839271

>gamers just want a fucking game with a soul

What the fuck does this even mean? I'm going to assume you want something that was made with passion and isn't just a quick cash grab.

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252988  No.16839355

File: 6ca0b237c7d6a2e⋯.jpg (65.03 KB, 858x920, 429:460, 54b163c2892388407eb4a24f96….jpg)

Skyforge was quite decent when it came out. What happened?

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0f68a1  No.16839356

>>16839271

Perhaps games still have soul and you're just soulless now? Not to say that games are better or worse, just that you're most likely projecting your feelings onto the media you enjoy.

>>16839346

If he meant that at bare minimum Cup head qualifies, likewise, I'd say anything made by Yoko Taro is also something made with intention at the very least, if not necessarily good.

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252988  No.16839359

>>16839262

Everquest is equally as garbage as WoW, WoW is an everquest clone.

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0f26c0  No.16839362

>>16839262

Lineage and Lineage 2> Everquest.

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2258ff  No.16839373

>>16839362

>Lineage 2 better than everquest

thats bullshit and you know it. lineage was dull as hell as theres no strategy or coherent thought required. just DPS the bosses until they die.

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0f26c0  No.16839378

>>16839373

>muh raids

Your mind has been subverted by WoW.

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3e1635  No.16839383

>>16839210

Gl trying to take down Orfen for the clan item on C3-C4 with no strategy and another clan + randoms trying to get you killed.

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2258ff  No.16839390

>>16839378

do you even L2? "raid" bosses are literally the point of the game. even normal enemies have barebones AI that boils down to chase player > hit player > occasinally cast spell (if magic is available). every enemy is just a meatsack that damages you.

>>16839383

aside from orfen, valakas, and the other final bosses of the game, wheres the strategy in the rest of the game? raid bosses in L2 remind me of that tigole picture with the tanks tanking, the healers healing, and the mages nuking. i've gone AFK on raid bosses as a DPS where the tank wasn't an incompetent buffoon and could keep agro on himself, thats the level of big brain required to play L2.

bear in mind the strategy in those final bosses you mention, like orfen, doesn't come from the actual boss but from the other clans trying to shank you, and thats a pretty nice excuse to not develop competent boss AIs, just let players challenge the other players, why bother.

its fun for a while then it becomes incredibly dull.

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5ddc26  No.16839418

File: 2c89e497624bf81⋯.jpg (49.51 KB, 800x800, 1:1, Contemplating Banette.jpg)

I'm not too knowledgable on how MMO communities used to be but weren't they more community-centric as in interacting with people on the game's overworld and less focus on being meta along with DPS and gear obsession even at the early game but more focused on exploring and enjoy the game at your leisure time? It's the initial impression I got from watching .hack at a very young age and years later log horizon.

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2429ab  No.16839422

>>16839418

MMOs have always had 4 archetypes of players. The Achievers and collector types (stuff like the gear obsessed as you mentioned), Killers, Explorers, and the Socializers. But many games in the past at least attempted to appeal to all these tastes. They didn't always succeed, but at least they tried. Somewhere along the way, it just became easier to focus on the Achievers. Building systems like them is far more predictable than what may or may not work for the others.

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d5c4f5  No.16839435

No mention of GW2 so I'll leave this here for those interested : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc_sRea6pD8

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2258ff  No.16839440

File: 42b3613cb14dc4d⋯.png (1.93 MB, 1158x1637, 1158:1637, 42b3613cb14dc4d7670ad215e1….png)

>>16839418

.hack had a very idealistic look of what MMOs are like. bear in mind that in .hack virtual reality was a thing, and i mean real virtual reality, not this bullshit about having a screen strapped to your face like a retard for the low low price of 800 dollars.

in .Hack, much like in digimon cyberslut, your consciousness is teleported into an artificially created physical "digital" world, that is parallel to the analog world humanity evolved into. in that world your avatar encapsulates your consciousness temporarily until you log out, this opens up a whole new dimension to the MMO genre because you can actually do anything and are not limited to premade animations by the developers (like attack 1, attack 2, idle 1, idle 2, idle 3, emote A, etc.)

my point being, in .Hack you have all of these interesting characters that want to do all sorts of things because their MMO world offers infinite potential when in reality its more like >>16839422 says because players are limited by what the developers put in the game as actions for them to do. you have the story people, the 1v1mefagt dudes, the RPers, and the achievers. because thats what the genre is limited to.

MMOs realistically will never achieve the level of fantasy bullshit available in .Hack and Digimon Cyberslut because in these games virtual space is not an abstract concept for a data storage, its a LITERAL PHYSICAL SPACE from a parallel universe that has always existed and humans just happened to reach by proxy when they invented the in-game universe meta-version of the internet they use.

also here's a thick ass banette to counter yours

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db9665  No.16839453

Perhaps to best way to make a perfect MMO, like any other game, is to combine the best aspects of different MMOs into one. For example, "the housing system in X sucks, replace it with the housing system from Y". If we can all think of the best aspects of the MMOs we've played and combine them to make one good MMO I think the results would be interesting.

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2258ff  No.16839460

>>16839453

two problems

A- subjective taste

B- no one is going to fork over the millions of dollars and manpower to do such a thing

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36dd82  No.16839465

>>16838263

>What can be done to save this genre?

It's been dead for a long time now, best to just cut your losses and play other games or just hang out on private servers of old games.

>>16838337

this

>>16839237

also this

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db9665  No.16839489

>>16839460

My second point was just talking about the idea of what the MMO would look like, not actually implementing it. As for subjective taste I mean I'm sure someone could convince another person why this is better than that.

Like I was thinking what would FFXIV look like with world PVP? The PVP in FFXIV already sucks so it couldn't possibly make it even worse. Someone could convince me otherwise.

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516517  No.16839499

Come play Korean Maplestory. You don't need to steal someone identity anymore.

It's not old Maplestory and its still a Korean grinding mmo but it's alright for a bit.

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0f26c0  No.16839543

>>16839390

No, Clan Wars was the point of the game.

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0f26c0  No.16839545

>>16839440

Ultima Online achieved this until Renaissance/Age of Shadows expansion, where they ruined it. Runescape Classic achieves this too.

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524694  No.16839574

>>16839453

That was WoW's MO for a fair bit of time to at least Mists. Features from other MMOs would start to appear all over the place.

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db5acc  No.16839708

File: 971593834d57946⋯.png (557.26 KB, 761x701, 761:701, Taru.PNG)

>>16839489

i just beat shadowbringers and i'm done.

I just started final fantasy 11 and i am blown away. This is soul

>>16839465

>private servers of old games

i'd just Star Wars Galaxies private server or the retail Final Fantasy 11 server, both have soul

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36dd82  No.16839994

>>16839708

> retail Final Fantasy 11 server, both have soul

classic ff11 is peak soul, retail is made for veterans that just want a walk down memory lane rather than actually adding good content

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603f66  No.16840132

File: 6e0086fc3525be2⋯.png (90.4 KB, 1478x257, 1478:257, Screen Shot 02-11-20 at 04….PNG)

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603f66  No.16840145

>>16838869

You can say that about any other form of spam, too.

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867f73  No.16840210

File: 48b0a250af40697⋯.jpg (426.81 KB, 969x642, 323:214, The end.jpg)

>So goyms are you ready to bow so you can play?

This must have been the price Microsoft set to have PSO" on their console

Personally if this is true, that's it, no more PSO2 and SEGA can suck dick

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3d439b  No.16840212

>>16838988

It's really not, you can go look up footage or even just look up a skill list. Plenty of skills that you have to cast. Exclude vanilla paladins though, they are sadly pretty pretty much that.

>tool bar bad

Why is this bad? Is it bad that RTS games have toolbars? Most games have UIs.

>>16839249

I don't really understand that, I've been using steam group chat for years before discord came out.

>>16839271

>I can't even think of any modern games past 2006 at the latest that have soul.

Nigger pill, is that you?

>>16839287

MMOs were definitely sabotaged, mostly just because they are a prime target. Already always online due to their nature it thus was a prime target for devs/pubs to force microtransactions into. Unlike single player games or multiplayer games with player ran servers, cheating to avoid the microtransactions is not an option.

Also other changes to the games in an attempt to increase the playerbase, ironically, destroyed the playerbase. For example, most modern MMOs allow you to right-click report people but there is no way to right-click add to friends. The very design of the game is meant to be antagonistic. Then since these report functions are automated and easily abused, groups of shitters do just that and intentionally get people banned. I can't find it, but there was a picture going around with the aim of teaching people how to abuse the report system in Overwatch specifically.

Another example is auto-grouping which discourages people from making connections in hope to avoid long wait times.

It's a case of devs and pubs trying to squeeze more money out of something and killing it instead.

>>16839453

Too intelligent, modern companies can't do that. I will never understand why nu-classic wow takes things that people hate about modern wow and ports it into old wow, while leaving in things people dislike about old wow. People hate phasing, but nu-classic puts it in. Meanwhile things like a barbershop and some ui improvements that very very few people would complain about being added are not put in. I bet most people wouldn't care if a mount/pet tab was put into the game so long as it was per character.

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2a8896  No.16840218

>>16838263

>What can be done to save this genre?

Everyone who said it's time to start MMOs from scratch is right. Modern MMO design isn't about making a good experience to play with your friends, it's about hitting key notes on an MMO checklist. Hell, to market to chinks, Blizzard even put additional 'gacha-like' elements in Battle for Azeroth, claiming that it would 'increase player engagement'. They don't treat it like a game, they treat it like a drug. They just want you to log in and give them attention. They don't care if you're even enjoying the game. It's all about the carrot on the stick. Modern MMOs are as engaging as fucking cookie clicker.

Meanwhile, you can log into old MMOs that are still alive (or have private servers) and immediately feel the difference. You can log into Anarchy Online, visit a fashion store, buy a hamburger and a milk shake, and go to a dance club. What does dressing up like a Russian landlord and dancing while holding a cheeseburger and drinking a shake have to do with the carrot on the stick? Absolutely goddamn nothing. You don't have to design an MMO entirely around that. You don't have to have 10 dailies that you're required to do every day for a month in order to get better gear, because then you're just logging in for the sole purpose of doing your dailies. You wake up, flop at your computer, log in, and click a button that throws you into a random dungeon with a random group of people. You don't even play the game anymore.

These games used to be about getting lost in a world. Now, they're about soulless addiction.

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4a205e  No.16840232

>>16840212

>You also have to press 1-9 after clicking on them!

Never played a rouge, I guess, but it's irrelevant, anon, core gameplay is click a mob, and even though the rest MAY BE a little more complicated, it isn't a big step further, and a lot of MMOs do that, that's literally the staple of MMOs.

>Tool bar

Not saying it's bad, I'm saying all MMOs look the same because of it, and I can prove it. Here is some pics of old and new MMOs, barely nothing changed, because they all wanted to be WoW, even when WoW didn't start this.

>Tales of Pirates

>Silkroad

>Lineage 2

>Eden Eternal

>Tera

And no anon, I'm not saying that looking the same is a bad thing on itself, they also play mostly the same, they have the same problem, and what barely changes us some colors and maybe the perspective.

They have the same problems the musou games do. I don't think musou games are bad, I enjoy them a lot, but you can't deny that if you play one you played them all, and in this case it doesn't matter if you play western shit like WoW or sugoi uguu stuff like Tera, they are the same shit at the core.

I'll post the pics later. Fucking internet

>>16840218

This is why I play only comfy stuff and RP. Fuck meta, in any form.

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db5acc  No.16840238

there's two different private servers for star wars galaxies

SWGEmu is the game version that was a sandbox

star wars galaxies legends is the version that had tons of quests and a plot line, it reminded me of swtor.

i had already tried emu and hated it cause it didn't make any sense. I'll try legends

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db5acc  No.16840239

>>16840218

>You don't have to have 10 dailies that you're required to do every day for a month in order to get better gear

Amen brother. I am DONE forever with that shit. Just beat the last quest in Shadowbringers FF14 and now they want me to do a ton of daily runs to get currency to upgrade my gear so i can access the next patch story, fuck that, i am so done. FF14 made me want to kill myself, it is such a grind.

I bought final fantasy 11 and it is so nice by comparison. Games still had soul back then

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000000  No.16840243

>>16840212

>I don't really understand that, I've been using steam group chat for years before discord came out.

That doesn't really mean anything when we're discussing larger adoption of the systems. Plus I'm talking about steams nu-implementation of the group chat, not their old chat systems.

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3d439b  No.16840251

>>16840232

>Never played a rouge, I guess

I did actually, and yes having to hit butters after attacking the mob is not just click and auto attack. Look up footage of runescape or wurm if you want to see games that are auto attack. admittedly at high levels runescape has a super attack you can use once every few kills possibly with prayer flipping and wurm has initial placement

>not saying toolbars are bad

Then why are you complaining about it as though it's negative? Old fps ui and modern fps ui have a lot of similarities also.

Though yes a lot of games play very similarly than wow, though there have been some like Darkfall and maybe Project Gorgon will release, but even games like guild wars 2 mixed it up a fair bit for the worse in its case

>>16840239

I'm surprised you made it that far, I got to hate the forced story shit in FFXIV rather quick. One of the worst things modern mmos are implementing.

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026184  No.16840271

>>16838330

>FF11 is better but FF14 is a WoW clone

It wouldn't be so bad if they just made XIV, and that was the end of it. It was the way they did it that was disgusting. Playing FFXI when they were pushing XIV and killing off content was upsetting.

>You're going to play XIV, now, cash cow! Want to do old missions? Tough, there's no fucking point, everyone can get better shit in a heartbeat. btw, here's some WoW gimmicks we put into XIV, hope you like them

Fuck SE for giving into temptation. Whenever I see their games, I remember this dick move and I reconsider, and I thank god for posts like yours to help me not forget.

Maybe I'm being melodramatic, but it's like a genocide. Just like that, they practically wiped out a community, just because they wanted more dorrar from people who had no interest in FF.

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759f14  No.16840386

>>16840271

FF11 pre-Abyssea is Tolkien tier.

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e4d938  No.16840398

>>16840305

>they had to cave in and follow the formula because the investors wanted that big money.

well, it made them big money and by now is probably the better game (not much of a win with the competition crawling up it's own ass, but still).

>it would have been a banger of a game

that's debatable.

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f44df6  No.16840418

>>16840210

I'm guessing "drop support" means that they aren't going to troubleshoot your shit for you if you can't start the game on 7 rather than actively prevent anyone from boot the game on that system.

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000000  No.16840419

>>16840418

I hope so. Windows 7 and 10 are virtually identical systems, so I don't see any reason the game would simply stop working unless they suddenly added some crazy new tech to the game after 8 years.

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5274f4  No.16840425

>>16840271

>Playing FFXI when they were pushing XIV and killing off content was upsetting.

Holy shit, I think you're the first person I've come across who also commented about that. It was absolutely disgusting how badly they wanted FFXIV to kill off FFXI and devour its corpse. Abyssea clearly showed that, because it threw away any semblance of balance by raising the level cap 24 levels, offering the playerbase what I can only describe as a last hurrah to run around an "ended" MMO at Lv99 before quitting for the new shiny toy.

And then… that didn't happen.

FFXIV in its initial state failed miserably. The majority didn't have any desire at all to move on. You could tell how unexpected it was as they scrambled to backpedal on the whole thing. Suddenly, FFXI had an official forum after a decade. Suddenly, there was a twitter. Suddenly another expansion announced. All of it, of course, was already unsustainable. Raising the level cap and starting up a gear treadmill had already been a death blow, and the game would never be the same at all.

And now that FFXIV has turned into WoW With Tarutaru, we're right back on track with the original plan. You're not being melodramatic, that's exactly what fucking happened.

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f44df6  No.16840435

>>16840419

I doubt it. Besides, the game runs on directx9, so you could probably get it to run even from XP.

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c3fde4  No.16840455

Personally, I'll just stick with the SMT Imagine private server for now. I may branch out to other MMOs later, but this one is still holding my interest and progressing consistently.

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1619d4  No.16840486

>>16840419

They could turn the game's launcher into an app that requires the Windows 10 app store

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f44df6  No.16840489

>>16840486

Does anyone besides nips use the default launcher anyway? The game updates through Arks-Layer, so it doesn't matter.

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1619d4  No.16840491

>>16840489

>The game updates through Arks-Layer, so it doesn't matter

Not if they make it so you can't access the servers unless you are launching the game via an app on the app store.

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db5acc  No.16840495

good GOD i fucking HATE final fantasy 14. It is a soulless fucking game yet normie scum and trannies think it's the greatest. It's the worst fucking grind i've ever seen.

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ff91e8  No.16840505

>>16840500

How many people even realize they're different games rather than "that final fantasy MMO".

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e4d938  No.16840513

>>16840495

<normie scum and trannies think it's the greatest.

<It's the worst fucking grind i've ever seen.

>has no fucking clue how horrid the average kmmo grind is

>opinions as dumb as the average normalfag

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3afb85  No.16840525

>>16840495

I'm honestly baffled that people are still taking you seriously and haven't realized you're a cuckchan nigger.

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18cfdf  No.16840536

>>16840530

He's still a cuckchan nigger.

>simp

Holy fucking Christ why are you faggots even in here, is this a fucking discuck raid or something? Get the fuck out with your normalfag shit back where you came from you colossal fucking faggot.

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18cfdf  No.16840538

>>16840536

MARK STOP EATING MY UPLOADS

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e4f5c6  No.16840561

File: 28e0aec64128b95⋯.jpg (136.88 KB, 1280x1707, 1280:1707, Art_By_S_A_Lieske.jpg)

>>16838578

>I'd honestly rather just pay a monthly fee

I take it you've never paid a monthly fee then, because not only will it cause new different yet similar problems, but you'll be paying more by the end of it.

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e4f5c6  No.16840563

Also

>>16840555

>mark ban these retards

Hopefully he will. But it won't be who you're expecting.

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f12fe2  No.16840688

File: 6a3e46239058862⋯.png (1.18 MB, 1166x2000, 583:1000, 15b455e77f492fbd11edf86dac….png)

>>16840418

Hope so, but with micro$hit being sneaky all the time its really worrisome

It could happen that SEGA would drop their win7 users to favor the console ones from the west, It would also be bad for them but sometimes companies don't understand this kind of stuff

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db5acc  No.16840760

>>16840525

>>16840513

i dont give a fuck. I've been on 8chan since it started. I don't come here often tho.

Fuck modern MMORPGs, play FF11

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db5acc  No.16840764

>>16840425

one point you didn't mention, FF11 was and is still the biggest money-maker for Square. So after FF14 failed, they put more effort into 11, to get more money, then they used that money to rebuild 14

Square Enix created 14 simply to compete with WoW. Otherwise why would they create a new MMO only 5 years after their first? Makes zero sense. WoW is 16 years old and never thought to create WoW 2

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18cfdf  No.16840783

>>16840760

>i dont give a fuck

Apparently you do, you posted.

>I don't come here often tho

That's unsurprising, you already revealed that you're not from here.

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e1af23  No.16840817

>>16838328

How can PSO2 be a japanese game without lolis?

>>16838263

Nothing, people like me treat them as single-player multi-player, my only joy is to solo multi-player content, the only multi-player content indulge is the market, but that's when a game is grindy for the sake of being grindy.

There are some who P2W to show-off that they can P2W and others who P2W because they want to engage in the game, but would rather like the game to be a japanese gambling/lootbox/gacha so they can be casuals due several reasons, having a job being the most prominent.

<It's all WoW fault that muh online games suck

You know, if players, those who keep servers alive by paying for shit there didn't loved WoW or WoW-like games then there wouldn't be WoW clones… or online games, so you can safely assume that online games were dead long, long ago

Now if you all excuse me, i'm going to play mabinogi, where i can learn almost all skills with a single character without all the class/job bullshit, but the playerbase is permanently dwindling due players getting confused and overwhelmend since is not a streamlined game like WoW, sadly Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine already died for the same reason.

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1619d4  No.16840874

>>16840817

Since when did Microsofts target audience like Japanese things?

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ee81f9  No.16840937

>>16840817

Nah, Imagine didn't die because it was complicated. It died because all new content was balanced to match the latest cash shop gear. Whales in the latest gear could melt endgame bosses in a nanosecond on their own. No matter what gimmick or bullshit move the devs gave bosses, the whales always complained about how easy it was. The devs knew they'd lose the whales if they stopped making overpowered gear, so rather than keep the corpse limping on, they made an announcement about how they "no longer had confidence in their ability to make fun content" and put Imagine down before things got too bad.

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396c79  No.16841043

File: a0d9d806ee1f7f4⋯.png (454.41 KB, 640x480, 4:3, killeveryone.png)

>>16838328

>no more loli options

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396c79  No.16841077

>>16840238

Emu's problem is that it's reverse engineered code and has not yet implemented the two expansion packs. The result is it's based on the game it had almost no content besides player interaction, random quests, and a handful of non-repeatable quests that were completely unpredictable on how strong you needed to be for them (and didn't give significant reward anyways).

Legends is based on leaked code and represents the game as it was just before shutdown, after it went full WoW with forced classes and shitty quests (though of predictable difficulty). The spaceship content from the first expansion is in however, and, as far as I know, wasn't changed in the "upgrade" beyond making it so you (very slowly) gained XP while doing it and they're otherwise separate.

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396c79  No.16841082

>>16841077

(unfortunately Legends doesn't have the custom TCG included)

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a2da8a  No.16841208

>>16838302

>The people who ACTUALLY want a non-WoW MMO are all gone, maybe they moved on to different games or got lives or an heroed or something, the demand for it just no longer exist.

But Korea still exists. How do you explain shit like Black Desert and Vindictus?

>>16838869

Ah, the classics.

>>16838905

Japan freely accepts the freaks as long they get to laugh at them, like they've been doing for decades now. The whole tranny-newhalf debacle comes to mind with Goemon 3 back in the SNES and newer examples with Gintama having about 15 episodes slamming faggots and faggot culture to the ground until the viewer laughs.

>>16839238

>Slither

>Being this fucking jewey and slimy

Megaman ZX really did predict the future, except it's far more mundane and with less coll robots.

>>16839440

>Real Virtual reality

>in .hack

Not in the early versions you probably remember. It's always been some super awesome VR helmet and the players always grasped their controllers / kbm playing the game on PC. Actual VR in the sense of how SAO and whatever other new-MMO centric animu now has came years later, with the release of .hack the Movie that came bundled with that .hack Versus game. Even various manga that were released at the same time as the games depicted the whole VR thing as secondary feature given you weren't actually in the game in the sense we think of VR as now which is why you had scenes like Endrance losing his shit at the coloseum and cutting to see his reaction as [Kaoru Ichinose] in the real world while wearing the ALTLIMIT OS headgear or later in the Twillight manga you have Shugo and Rena or just Shugo shown while wearing his headgear doing various motions out of pure excitement in the real world while we also see him triumph in The World.

The closest thing to really early .hack's battle system with "no premade animations" would be something close to what Metal Gear Rising with its numerous flowing Wide Attacks that can go on forever and exist for various different situations.

Other than that, everything else is spot on so, sorry for my .hack sperg.

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a2da8a  No.16841210

File: 0f6aad6d5f416fd⋯.png (98.21 KB, 500x353, 500:353, 0f6aad6d5f416fd831e43efae0….png)

File: 180e29d309524a2⋯.jpg (42.62 KB, 263x518, 263:518, Endrance - Kaoru Ichinose.jpg)

File: ce81d22e8392f45⋯.jpg (277.07 KB, 1446x1050, 241:175, How to access The World.jpg)

File: fe4e0e6b8e0d68d⋯.jpg (200.68 KB, 869x1237, 869:1237, How VR works in To Aru oss….jpg)

>>16841208

Fuck, it ate my pictures AGAIN!

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40f6f1  No.16841211

>>16838328

I'm sticking to the Japanese servers, thank you.

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a2a839  No.16841214

can you imagine porting an MMO of a game that sells itself on lewd underage looking characters and the costumes these can use but removing all of them because muh morals cant lewd the children have to wait until they're 50 years old minimum put burkas on everybody

western shitvilization can't collapse soon enough.

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3e1635  No.16841220

File: 15d89da7b4979ac⋯.png (251.37 KB, 358x347, 358:347, 1574142903616.png)

>>16839390

You can apply the same argument to every old mmo on existence anon… the grind will always be dull af when novelty wears off.

That's why if you go back to an old mmo you'll quit playing sooner or later unless It let's you get to the community/PvP aspect asap.

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40f6f1  No.16841226

>>16838838

PSO2 has one of the best and most flexible character creation systems to date and should be a standard for vidya.

It would be a shame to see character creation get butchered.

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a2a839  No.16841233

>>16841220

the XI grind never gets too dull. thats because every camp has multiple different strategies to xp in it.

>>16841226

what about BDO's character creation? i mean BDO is hot garbage but the character creator looked complex enough.

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7c9bdf  No.16841236

After seeing what >>16841220 posted, I got a craving to go back to Tree of Savior since it is the supposed spiritual successor of Ragnarok Online, but I remembered that the engine is absolute garbage in optimization. Have they ever resolved this yet?

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a786bb  No.16841329

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>play one mmorpg

>have the time of my life

>becomes pay to play

>everyone flees to private servers

>have cozy community, but the custom shit taints the game for me

>sudden shutdown

>everyone disappears

>didn't think it'd hit me that bad

>try another mmorpg

>the magic is dead

not touching mmos again

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40f6f1  No.16841342

Is there an english patch client for Dragon Quest X?

I know PSO2 has one.

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36dd82  No.16841695

>>16841342

I'm certain DQX has had a mostly complete English patch for a while, been looking into playing it but I'm fucking broke and don't wanna get e-bullied by Japs.

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3e1635  No.16841872

File: e0d49e5c39cd8dc⋯.mp4 (7.05 MB, 720x480, 3:2, BeetleBroughtFriends.mp4)

>>16841236

Nope. Same shit as ever.

Btw guys here are some Resurrection Projects going on:

>Rusty Hearts Revolution server Launched

>Wizardry private server making notable progress. (Check the wizon discord)

>Solstice Online private server planning an Open Beta after doing closed test with no problems. (Check the Solstice Family Discord)

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db5acc  No.16841876

i am NOT an NPC! i have a soul, and that is why i play games with soul like Final Fantasy 11

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252988  No.16841931

>>16840218

Very well put.

I remember some classic mmos where everyone was refining gear only because they wanted to glow in the dark and it didn't require selling your left kidney. Just so you could look at the plebs who don't glow. It was great.

Nowadays that "refining gear" system has gone so very horribly wrong, although there's also the lesser evil of not having such a system entirely.

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4a205e  No.16841972

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>16841876

I don't dislike the idea of the game treating you as just another soldier. It's an MMO, after all. I liked that from WotLK, you were an adventurer, and with your help the heroes were able to defeat the Lich King, because you were facing something so stupidly powerful that you alone couldn't handle it. It reminds me of the power of the horde song, and that does reflect how powerful the boss really is when it needs 20 real life people to beat it.

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8b9b10  No.16841996

>>16841043

are they fucking serious?

the only thing worse than catering to pedos is taking away the freedom to create whatever the fuck you want ingame.

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a7772c  No.16842108

>>16841972

>I don't dislike the idea of the game treating you as just another soldier.

this. rift did it best imho by pointing out several times that you're just one of the special dudes, not THAT special dude. made it also easy to reference stuff like "some dudes killed some dragon" etc without specifically stating it was you.

even the writing was good enough that they put it in as a meta joke with an unascended (=mortal) npc and how now one wants to take him into a dungeon because can only die once.

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db5acc  No.16843752

the sad truth is, Final Fantasy 14 is the best we have right now.

simply being LESS a piece of shit is enough to be considered a good game nowadays. So i'm sticking with FFXIV

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603f66  No.16844102

>>16843752

That's not an MMO.

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e1af23  No.16844237

>>16840874

>Mabinogi

>Japanese

It's a korean game, you uncultured swine

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a66200  No.16844257

>>16844237

It's scientifically impossible to distinguish between the two unless you can see the silly Korean letters with circles in them. Japanese people never have circles in their letters except when they're censoring themselves.

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eae365  No.16845670

>>16842108

I think part of the issue stems from developers seeing how easy it is to give casuals the experience of doing something without having to actually do those things. By making a story that revolves around the player that some MMO's try to do you can give people who have either no intention of being great or lack the ability to be great an experience they can hopefully enjoy.

Obviously the issue with this is by streamlining the game like this your players can't really come up with stories about their exploits to other players. You can say, " remember that quest out in the Wasted Badlands where you had to give a goblin shortstack a piggyback ride?" to which most will reply, "Well yeah, it gave you a cape that was BiS for that level" or "Yeah it was required to get the rest of the zone unlocked".

Conversely my friend who actually plays ESO was doing interesting shit, but only because he was more interested in being his own person.

>was a blacksmith/enchanter

>Often undersold on accident, not realizing the shit he made was worth a fortune to others

>thanks in part to this and the way he handled his enchanting (would ask for double the materials required, so he could make and enchant his own things) was extremely popular to other players

>including being bombarded with messages from people who missed him and was hoping he was still open for it

>Also built a ridiculous life steal build (with enchants/vampirism) which meant he was next to invincible in AoE situations, but awful in 1v1

I was flat out fucking jealous of him for the longest time because he was actually enjoying his MMO but it is a representation of what a player can do, regardless of a story, given enough freedom. I think there are lot of things wrong with the genre itself, from the lack of community (the anon who pointed out there's no right click add friend but there sure as hell is a right click ignore hit the nail on the head) to trying to hard copy WoW/Everquest. If the board doesn't eat my images, I'll post some of the stuff I've collected from people over the course of these sorts of threads when I get back home.

I'm trying to see what needs to be done to create a good MMO. Obviously execution is a paramount, along with ironing what systems could work for the theme you're trying to set up, but I figure with any bit of luck if I never use the ideas, someone with the brains/money might use them in my place. It probably won't happen, but at least it's a good way to help people blow off steam by scratching the itch that makes them not enjoy what they should be enjoying.

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759f14  No.16845757

>>16844237

It's a korean game with frequent japanese ads even.

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f12fe2  No.16845812

File: 90776addba57c71⋯.jpg (317.92 KB, 877x1240, 877:1240, 1577194922542-3.jpg)

So.. does anyone knows if is there a way to use DX12 on Windows 7?

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f0e119  No.16845866

File: 18f86ccfbe220c4⋯.png (2.27 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, eso_meets_x.png)

>>16845670

> I was flat out fucking jealous of him for the longest time because he was actually enjoying his MMO but it is a representation of what a player can do, regardless of a story, given enough freedom.

that's just the community aspect tho. as I like to say "reputation is more than a bar", how you interacts makes or breaks your "character". the biggest issue tho is hardly anyone interact anymore and/or wants to put any effort in.

"good" mmo is also relative, I would call eso a good mmo because it does the things I care about damn well, even when there are definitely certain areas lacking (like combat), which others have much higher on their priority list

I wouldn't even say combat is really bad, but it game itself does nothing to give you easy access to all the options to figure out fast what you enjoy. had a dk main which was pigeonholed quite hard in what he could do, said fuck it and changed him to a healer and now have a fucking blast. but I don't do vet raids so there's that

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f0e119  No.16845873

>>16845812

didn't ms backport parts of it for mcc and other games?

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1619d4  No.16847826

File: b3743e64fedf4fe⋯.png (52.1 KB, 1400x368, 175:46, ClipboardImage.png)

>>16840817

>>16841043

>>16841211

>>16841996

>>16841043

So I got an update on the censorship.

According to a GM, they should remove the censorship if

>it is demonstrated [(that) a majority of the players will (not) be offended] (or valid points are brought up), said company may reverse the change.

The GM continues and indicates that posting in the suggestions section of the forum is the best way to demonstrate that players will not be offended.

http://archive.is/SYM0A

While I know

>Not your personal army

but I would like to implore anyone ITT, or anyone who might see this post on the front page, who doesn't want the game to be censored to make a post or two in the threads against the censorship.

>https://forum.pso2.com/topic/587/censorship-is-not-needed-in-this-m-rated-game

http://archive.ph/OB8dZ

>https://forum.pso2.com/topic/598/height-slider

http://archive.ph/sQIM3

>https://forum.pso2.com/topic/584/removing-height-restrictions

http://archive.ph/iRjx6

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c9418a  No.16847853

>What can be done to save this genre?

Play albion instead of wow clones? Fucking dumb kids and their obsession with shitty carebear trash.

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000000  No.16847858

>>16847853

Surely you aren't referring to albion online one of the most pay to win games ever released?

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5412a9  No.16847864

File: c89fe1658404e31⋯.png (1.24 MB, 842x586, 421:293, ClipboardImage.png)

im just content playing my 2002 boomer MMO

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c9418a  No.16847868

>>16847858

No, I am referring to albion online, that isn't pay to win at all, and is an actual MMOG instead of wowtrash.

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000000  No.16847872

>>16847868

When that game launched it was one of the most offensive exploitative pay models I've ever seen in a game. Maybe they did a completely 180 on it since I recall the game died after a week because of how horrible the pay model was. The basic gameplay seemed alright but I refuse to play it because of that first impression and how disgustingly they milked their players.

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c9418a  No.16847879

>>16847872

>When that game launched it was one of the most offensive exploitative pay models I've ever seen in a game.

wut

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000000  No.16847893

>>16847879

Albion Online if I recall correctly launched with a box price of $30, it also required a $15 subscription to play. On top of the base subscription to play the game it had a "premium" subscription for $10 which gave you more rewards for basically everything you did in the game. On top of that it had a cash shop where you could buy currency, and on top of that it allowed you to buy character slots which was vital for farming all the passive shit you could get with these little individual character farms you could make. Unless I'm mistaken and we're thinking of different games, Albion Online had one of the most fucking absurd payment schemes in the history of games.

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3e1635  No.16847918

File: 84fe9e7900c1cb7⋯.jpg (131.26 KB, 880x704, 5:4, 1579152529683.jpg)

>>16847853

>Call Albion a sandbox when it is not.

Anon, Why are you posting here if you have no idea about mmos?

p.s: Don't bother I'm not gonna argue with a fanboi

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5412a9  No.16847922

>>16847893

>>16847879

>>16847872

>>16847868

one of you is probably thinking of Allods online probably.

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4e6445  No.16847923

>>16841220

>the grind will always be dull af

>>16847918

>p.s: Don't bother I'm not gonna argue with a fanboi

Did you come out of Gaia Online just now or something? Could you please talk like a normal human being?

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c9418a  No.16847936

>>16847918

What is pay2win about a subscription fee? You mean you didn't think it was worth the money. That's fine, but not the same thing. How it works right now is you can either pay $12/month or you can buy your subscription with in game currency. Or you can play in trial mode where you only get 2/3rds xp. There's nothing you can buy that will make you win, you have to git gud if you want to win.

>>16847918

>>Call Albion a sandbox

No I didn't. But, obviously it is. It has no quests, the entire economy is player based, you have to make your own fun. How is that not a sandbox?

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000000  No.16847950

>>16847936

>What is pay2win about a subscription fee?

I didn't say anything was pay to win about a sub fee. I just finished describing all the pay to win shit they had at launch. The sub fee just makes all the other bullshit they had that much more unjustifiable. Sub fees are of course anti-consumer in their own right, though. The fact that they tried to get away with that monetization scheme to begin with is reason enough for me to refuse to play the game. It was honestly some of the most predatory cancerous shit I've seen in years and the fact they couldn't keep the game afloat with that model doesn't surprise me. Not even the most nigger brained normalfag cash cows would put up with a box price, sub fee, premium sub fee, and pay to win features for a game where you go around clicking mining nodes and trees.

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c9418a  No.16847962

>>16847950

>Sub fees are of course anti-consumer in their own right, though.

You just don't want a MMOG then.

>and pay to win features

Which you still haven't named. You can't win from buying a different horse skin, you can only win by being good. It is a PvP game, git gud.

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ba657b  No.16847969

>>16847962

>Which you still haven't named.

He named them here:

>>16847893

>On top of the base subscription to play the game it had a "premium" subscription for $10 which gave you more rewards for basically everything you did in the game. On top of that it had a cash shop where you could buy currency, and on top of that it allowed you to buy character slots which was vital for farming all the passive shit you could get with these little individual character farms you could make.

A premium subscription on top of the regular sub that gives greater rewards and a cash shop that sells gold and character slots which are all-but necessary for farming.

And here I am defending a TORpedo.

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c9418a  No.16847977

>>16847969

None of that is pay2win. Selling shit isn't pay2win, its just jewish. Selling shit that MAKES YOU WIN is pay2win.

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ba657b  No.16848025

>>16847977

>paying more money to get more xp, gold, and loot

<it's not pay to win you just get stronger faster and you get more stuff to make better builds

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000000  No.16848032

>>16847962

>You just don't want a MMOG then.

Nothing about an MMO mandates a subscription fee.

>>16847977

The entire point of the game is resource collection, and you can pay for resources and to make resource collection easier, or at least you could at the time of launch. That is literally paying for the win condition of the game to occur, and is the literal definition of pay to win. Why are you shilling this hard?

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49f789  No.16848035

File: ee4d238de25eb3c⋯.gif (1.6 MB, 310x359, 310:359, rubrub.gif)

>>16848025

Genius plan, just require f2p players to grind literally 10000 years to get anything, now people can't call it P2Win because even if you have to have your account passed through generations of people, it's theoretically possible to do it for free.

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c9418a  No.16848039

>>16848032

>Nothing about an MMO mandates a subscription fee.

No, just having a worthwhile one requires a subscription fee. Do you think people are going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars operating a game for you?

>The entire point of the game is resource collection

No, the entire point of the game is to pk stupid faggots like you.

>That is literally paying for the win condition of the game to occur

You can not pay to win a fight. You can not pay to have your opponents die. Your idiocy is like saying starcraft was pay2win because you had to buy the game to be able to win.

>Why are you shilling this hard?

Why are you?

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cedf25  No.16848051

All they gotta do is make a game thats fun to play, look at UO at it's height. It had barely any grind, and most of the skills you could skill up whilst in a worthwhile manner, or afk if you really felt like it.

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000000  No.16848054

>>16848039

>No, just having a worthwhile one requires a subscription fee.

Nope, not true. Plenty of servers with thousands of players on them that don't require a sub fee.

>No, the entire point of the game is to pk stupid faggots like you.

And would better resource collection make that easier? Then it's p2w.

>muh arbitrary win condition can not literally be set from 0 to 1 so it's not p2w

>Your idiocy is like saying starcraft was pay2win because you had to buy the game to be able to win.

Ah, it was good bait up until that point. You got me decently up until there. Good shit-posting session.

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c9418a  No.16848056

>>16848054

>Plenty of servers with thousands of players on them that don't require a sub fee.

And they are all shit, because it is a stagnant corpse of some old defunct game.

>And would better resource collection make that easier?

No.

>Ah, it was good bait up until that point

"oy vey you pointed out how retarded my lie is! Since I can't argue this I will run away and pretend I won!111"

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000000  No.16848077

>16848056

You blew your load too early anon, now you don't get any more (You)'s.

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a5c801  No.16848117

>>16848035

It’s common that this bites developers in the ass and they can’t balance their game because it would retroactively devalue the money and/or time idiots spent to get broken equipment, but they still need to put out some new thing to grind for, so it spirals out of control ad nauseam.

Then the same sunk-cost losers will stick with the game anyway like battered housewives, praying something will change when there is no financial incentive for them to do anything differently.

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c9418a  No.16848125

>>16848123

Which server?

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5412a9  No.16848129

>>16848125

im playing on eden, im not the guy you're replying to though, im this guy >>16847864

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61d12d  No.16848135

>>16848123

>>16848129

Is it free?

Does it play like WoW or FFXIV at all?

Are any of its mechanics or features seemingly aged like milk?

How long does it take for you to get into "THE REAL GAME"? and please dont let it be like FFXIV where it only gets fun once you get into the endgame content.

I'm bored and I may just play that in the future one of these days.

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5412a9  No.16848139

>>16848135

yes

no

subjective

from the moment you start

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61d12d  No.16848184

>>16848139

Just saw a youtbe video of it and good god does it look old and brown at certain areas, but it does look a bit neat, I was really into Kenshi and it's pretty damn similar in appearance.

Okay I decided anon, when I get bored of MHWI then I'll try it out. I hope that its fun and if so we can try and play together on Eden.

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ea2d0b  No.16848253

File: 6414f1557e6523d⋯.jpg (81.35 KB, 500x400, 5:4, tribal_trouble.jpg)

I don't know if there's any interest, but there's some old official source code with a GPLv2 license for a dead MMO that I've found: https://github.com/sunenielsen/tribaltrouble

Does anyone remember playing this?

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c9418a  No.16848272

>>16848253

That's an RTS dumbass.

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0d9581  No.16848334

File: dd97b8099333dd8⋯.webm (1.86 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, shaimusic.webm)

I'm still convinced tera was only as popular as it was because of the elins and WoW clone gameplay will suffice as a backdrop to a build your own loli simulator. For example I totally overlooked black desert online for the longest time until I noticed they released a loli class and that got me in the door and now I'm regularly playing it.

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7847e6  No.16848420

>>16848334

Eh, I enjoyed it during the pre-release becuase it felt less like a WoW clone. Attacking rooting you, player collision and other mechanics made it feel more like a hack&slash game than an MMO.

I cancelled my pre-order when they removed player stores, the writing was on the wall.

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32c118  No.16848464

>>16848054

>Plenty of servers with thousands of players on them that don't require a sub fee.

How often do those servers make meaningful content updates and do they have a f2p business model? Something existing doesn't make it good.

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3d439b  No.16848491

File: ca85a0ece23079b⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 59.04 KB, 640x476, 160:119, AlbionMonitizationPractice.jpg)

>>16847936

>intentionally ignore all but the sub fee

>go on to vaguely mention the gold system without explaining how it works since it is clearly p2w

>claim the game is not p2w

Go kill yourself shill, but first explain MMOG to me, is it the shill term for your "new" genre?

>>16847950

I'd argue sub fees are not anti-consumer, excluding this case due to the double sub fee, but only if the game works without paying. If people were able to host their own servers it would be fine, of course very few mmos do that.

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d265ed  No.16848517

File: 071936f4cdaa378⋯.mp4 (4.08 MB, 852x480, 71:40, preach • Feb 10, 2019 maid….mp4)

>>16848491

>jpg

well that's nostalgic

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c9418a  No.16848520

>>16848491

>but first explain MMOG to me, is it the shill term for your "new" genre?

If you are a child of the eternal september then your opinion is worthless.

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1bcc17  No.16848534

File: 3a23d3f41069243⋯.png (764.86 KB, 2048x2048, 1:1, 'b-b-but youre a gay if yo….png)

I swear to god, if anyone here is capable of defending (((western localization))) at this point, they need to get banned right the fuck away for being an obvious ResetERA mole.

>>16838854

Speaking of which; it's almost as if you have something in common with trannies, traitor. But fine. Here's something you can't say was made by a tranny outing your kind.

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32c118  No.16848542

>>16848534

Remember that one video about the speedrunner defending girl avatar? Really makes you think.

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5412a9  No.16848545

>>16848542

he should have just said because she's hot

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32c118  No.16848548

>>16848545

Therein lies the problem.

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5412a9  No.16848563

>>16848548

the virgin "i dont wanna stare at man ass all day"

vs

the chad "because i actually want to be an underage girl and get railed by 3 giant horsecocks, got a problem with that you pussy?"

also the girl avatar in question that you're talking about was May from pokemon R/S/E, in the video i mean.

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1bcc17  No.16848574

File: c50f9b9feb67cd5⋯.gif (943.04 KB, 180x180, 1:1, york smile.gif)

>>16848563

I like your moxie. As long as you're not the type to spam any thread that has a pro-male intent with propaganda, you have the approval of a random internet user you'll probably never recognize after this thread.

I will admit, however, that if the cowtits May mod for ORAS gave more moments of visibility and more exciting angles, I'd exclusively play as her before I realize I should stick to ROM hacks instead of that shitpile.

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3d439b  No.16848587

>>16848563

>>16848542

Couldn't find that video, but did find this.

http://archive.is/8lufl

Maybe there are legit reasons to use the girl?

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a66200  No.16848611

>>16848534

Your argument implies that immersion is important in video games. Aside from all the gamers out there to whom immersion is meaningless or actively distasteful, immersion is a fake idea in third-person games, which is what most games with character generators are. How are you supposed to be immersed in something when you're staring at a plastic doll's back or over its shoulder? You might equally as well argue that you're in unhealthy escapist denial if you make any character that doesn't look exactly like you or if you play renameable characters without giving them your name. By a small extension of your reasoning, if you can't actually decapitate a robotic ninja with your hand in real life, then wanting to do it in a video game is abnormal.

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32c118  No.16848629

File: 9cc379aeee0e2c1⋯.png (402.82 KB, 872x632, 109:79, 9cc379aeee0e2c148eb8517b63….png)

>>16848611

That's a whole lot of shit to say just to avoid saying you want to be a little girl.

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d265ed  No.16848630

File: 84d47b3f4177fe7⋯.webm (2.43 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, i'm not a loli weaboo fag….webm)

did someone say loli weaboo faggot

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ba460b  No.16848640

File: e78a9f0256b010a⋯.jpg (75.94 KB, 888x888, 1:1, f549fdb8c3f524b9d2b12a4df3….jpg)

>>16848629

Ты моя любимая, ты моя принцесса

Ты моя красавица, ты моя невеста

Я люблю тебя честно

но ты далека как звезда

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2429ab  No.16848643

>>16848611

I like third person when it makes use of third person mechanics (acrobatics or some other animation like that). Immersion, at least to me, is how extensive you can make use of the environment (or how it effects you). This still works in third or first person.. at last.

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2429ab  No.16848644

>>16848643

…I meant "at least to me".

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f86118  No.16848652

>>16848630

is there a clip where he gets man handled and kicked out for being a racist sexist homophobe because he said loli weaboo faggot?

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3b31e1  No.16848656

>>16848630

Its spelt weeaboo you faggot.

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a66200  No.16848663

>>16848643

I guess. The only kind of immersion I've ever had in a game is losing track of time or not being distracted by silly bullshit going on around me.

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d265ed  No.16848675

File: 77e4cf96834b227⋯.png (390 KB, 582x582, 1:1, huh.png)

>>16848656

>its spelling is '', you faggot.

>it's spelt'',"".

oughkaiey, mghaet.

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3b31e1  No.16848679

File: 57aca8d3c40a559⋯.jpg (14.37 KB, 220x272, 55:68, spelt.jpg)

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abce83  No.16848693

File: 3014c2d73278c1e⋯.mp4 (667 KB, 480x360, 4:3, athf.mp4)

The problem is WoW isn't WoW anymore, hence Vanilla being a success even though it's gimped as fuck, people are jonesing that badly for an experience that wasn't paved over by focus groups full of fat women and faggots. The leveling treadmill being completely predictable and not requiring exploration or dangerous encounters or FUCKING GROUPING killed the genre, and that's before you get into instancing and cross-server activities killing community. WoW was iterated into something that plays itself while you guild chat and try to ignore the dumbfuck PUG you're with because you'll never see any of those assholes again anyway.

Early WoW wasn't as bad about this, but it's gone now and everyone's copying nu-WoW, which was only successful via momentum and being tied to it with your friends. No one actually enjoys nu-WoW.

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2429ab  No.16848696

>>16848693

>dumbfuck PUG

Funny. That was the only highlight of my WoW experience. Once you know the tank/healer/dd game, the best thing you can do is fuck it up.

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abce83  No.16848706

>>16848696

That's why dungeons should be dangerous hellhole mazes where your corpse will rot forever if no one likes you enough to bail you out if you fuck up, anon. That's one of the things EQ did right.

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2429ab  No.16848716

>>16848706

That's one way to go about it.

But I'd prefer that they just improve the combat in games like that. Then I wouldn't look for cheap thrills.

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abce83  No.16848718

File: fa8c860354a29f4⋯.jpg (926.2 KB, 1600x2100, 16:21, renkei.jpg)

>>16848716

I don't know how you can improve on FFXI renkeis tbh

Unless you want 50 Dante-wannabes flying around at all times like gook "action" MMOs, but that just isn't fun after 10 minutes.

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2429ab  No.16848725

>>16848718

I don't necessarily need anything flashy. Fun gameplay just needs unpredictable patterns..even just minor ones. While the average WoW type MMO (at least in those smaller encounters) revolves around one formula.

Apparently though, they've introduced more involved boss fights (like in Raids) in smaller dungeons, but I've never played them. But that's a step in the right direction.

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000000  No.16848803

>>16848464

>>16848491

>How often do those servers make meaningful content updates and do they have a f2p business model?

There have been dozens of free to play WoW private servers that cycle through years worth of content without employing sketchy or shit monetization schemes. There's return of reckoning, and probably a lot of other completely free private servers that offer a wealth of content without needing people to pay a dime. The idea that running servers for MMO's requires monthly subscriptions to maintain the upkeep is simply wrong. The idea that MMO's have this vast amount of content that they provide their users that can only exist because of that subscription is also wrong. MMO's are low effort games, the content is meant to be repetitive and simplistic. Games that cost a fraction of the price without subscriptions offer servers and their entire games for a single price point.

People that try to justify sub fees have fallen for corporate propaganda. Running an MMO server is not that expensive. The content provided in patches does not by any stretch of the imagination warrant a sub fee. Software as a service is inherently anti-consumer.

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3e1635  No.16848823

File: 212d2ab9efdaa15⋯.jpg (391.29 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, Screenshot1227489.jpg)

>>16847936

>Static Resources

>Defined Classes where you cant make your own

>No Stat Build

>Game maps are a fucking tiny Square

>Can't Destroy map furniture

>Can't Build towns,cities

>Buildings can only be built where the game wants.

>Forces you to use the AH.

>Every item on the game has a price soft cap.

>Can Bypass grinding without playing using Learning Points

>The game forces you to go to a Black Zone and thus do PvP if you want anything good.

>Need a pretty & fast mount? Good, buy the premium and get it from the lootbox to get it asap.

>Want a shitty mount? Good, Now buy a island(instanced) put a plot and grind for it. Wait… but can't I get it by myself doing something else? nope you must buy and Island to grind for it which btw requires Premium to buy.

etc

etc…

Everything has a path where you cant make your own. (Buying stuff with money its not one.)

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5412a9  No.16848827

File: b0fc2c6655ac9bc⋯.png (90.48 KB, 247x309, 247:309, bomb toss.png)

>>16848718

skillchaining and magic bursting is so fun when people do it right. it makes your party feel like a truly coordinated team. and the game has so much shit to do. jobs to unlock, gear to find, stories to play through. even in a classic retail server has shitton of content to run on a weekly basis.

its a shame that we will never see a Lv75 cap Seekers of Adoulin. that update was truly a work of beauty soiled by iLvl119 shit that makes all gear before it pointless inventory clutter.

>>16848184

well the server is edenxi.com, keep in mind its x1. no free gibs. also don't be much of a sperg, i have a linkshell for that.

you'll probably have to use discuck to get the game files, the server was down for 2 weeks because of a fake DMCA letter that they got and they had to shutitdown and find a new host. they just brought the server back on thuesday 18th so the server website (that used to have the files and a bunch of other functions for the in-game) is still in reconstruction, until then they're hosting everything on the discuck, as much as i loathe that fucking platform. they'll probably bring back the website in a week or so.

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c9418a  No.16848980

>>16848823

I have no idea what game you are talking about.

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c9418a  No.16848990

>>16848987

Because it is a completely different game that is nothing like the real ffxi but it still has all this superficial resemblance to it that just makes you miss the real thing.

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91f0a1  No.16848998

>>16848993

You need to go back

although I'm sure you've been told that before.

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18cfdf  No.16849002

>>16848534

I literally posting proof of a tranny using the same argument to try to persuade people to join their sick cult, you're the same.

The answer is really simple, men like the women body.

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000000  No.16849005

>>16848986

>>16848987

>>16848988

>>16848991

>>16848993

Someone report this retard for me since hidden service reporting is broken.

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c9418a  No.16849009

>>16849005

Gas yourself.

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6c6fb0  No.16849017

File: 601ccfa40d74959⋯.png (275.18 KB, 268x563, 268:563, mh kirin armor.png)

File: 7208979e1b31d88⋯.jpg (145.52 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, low lvl armor.jpg)

File: 0b402a8919d6ab0⋯.jpg (476.57 KB, 1126x1024, 563:512, don't know where this on's….jpg)

>>16848534

I don't know man, seems pretty gay to me.

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000000  No.16849028

>>16849009

>sperg who unironically defends pay to win defending a sperg demanding people pay piggy for corporations

What a time to be alive

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61d12d  No.16849029

File: 883fde641218792⋯.jpg (75 KB, 1068x780, 89:65, shake.jpg)

>>16848993

>Kys

>Then get a job

How am I gonna get a job then get paid if I'm dead?

Why do you defend retail servers so much? I though you hated SE. Do you actually work for them and get paid pennies or something?

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000000  No.16849038

>>16849029

With actiblizz flopping so consistently over the last few years it really isn't any surprise they would hire third party forum shills to try and milk the last few dollars out of their dying franchises. This one seems like a pretty low effort/cost shill considering he's just blanket responding to half the thread, and not even in the same post but back to back posts to keep it bumped.

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06fd15  No.16849044

>>16838263

For starters, changing classes, items, etc, because of <whatever reason> needs to stop. ADD content. Changing shit isn't content and encouraging players to behave a certain way isn't content also.

All worlds should be open with as little servers as possible. MMOs are supposed to be massive, not an extra large multiplayer server. No instances. Instances are dumb and takes away from the immersion factor of a game. And if the instance is made dumb, destroys the integrity of the game (ie best farm spot is a 5 man instance)

If you have a frame work for classes, spells, items, etc., stick to it. The rules of chess do not change and neither should the rules of the game.

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d90290  No.16849047

File: 7de942d4fbb6053⋯.gif (456.15 KB, 352x240, 22:15, clothes damage.gif)

File: fc67415ed09cee8⋯.gif (1.22 MB, 424x238, 212:119, killing the boss.gif)

>>16849017

The grunts are the best part.

Nothing more manly than hearing a sweaty buff man growls and moans for hours.

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c9418a  No.16849057

>>16849028

>everyone should work for free because I am a worthless soilet with no money

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000000  No.16849060

>>16849057

Who are you quoting?

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06fd15  No.16849065

>>16849044

Cease selling vanity items and IP. If you really want to make extra money, instead, allow a market that allows players to trade the things they acquire from playing the game with real money. This won't unbalance the game by injecting shit from no where into it and it also allows people to make small profits from their game play (and encourages people to stick to the game as well). Take 6% of the sale price -after- the transaction approves on both sides. Some games made it where they took your money for posting, and that's stupid. It costs you nothing, so take it after it sells. Ban bots or create your game, security, whatever, in such a way that it makes it impossible to bot in order to maintain the integrity of the game. Cheaters and botters should get a ban hammer greater than just their account. Banning the credit card, paypal account, etc., would aid in that significantly. Don't accept forms of payment that this can not be accomplished with.

Fix actual BUGS and have developers or community people actually play the game. Allow Game masters to organize live events within your MMO and set things up. Like making the main town get raided by cultists who sacrifice npcs within the town (including merchants, bankers, etc., as plot invulnerability destroys game integrity) to summon a dragon they worship and if successful, players now have to take back their city. Such events should have enemy npcs varying from all ranges of levels so that even newbies can get some action. With the game master at the helm of it all.

Never balance pvp separately from pve. Life is unbalanced and it's retarded to try and create balance in a video game. there will always be something that is the best, aka the meta. the meta shouldn't change, something NEW should come out that takes the position of meta instead. Even if that something New is for an existing class, item, etc.,

We went from sword to guns. Not from katanas being the best to zweihänder and then a year from now katanas again. Video games should be like that. Progression should be slow but doable over time and faster for those willing to put in the extra work.

Make it where the game can only allow one account for one person (however you manage that). Multi-boxing is just as cancerous as botting. The game should be 60% solo, 20% group play with possible solo, and the remaining 20% being impossible to solo. Over time, as people learn the ropes, this will shift to 80/20, but that's okay as the that 20% hybrid would give people a sense of accomplishment.

Allow customization. Allow distribution of stats on your character. So yes, if I want to make a tank mage, I can, but the obvious downfall is that every other glass cannon will out dps me. This allows pvp to become interesting instead of predictable as well.

No I win buttons or one shot gimmicky bullshit. Only time someone should get one shot is either in final boss fights (when the boss themselves do their "special" move), practical things like falling off a skyscraper, or because you're simply that low lvl.

Every item in the game should serve a use and the markets should be player run. Weather they're ingredients for crafting, gear, etc. No WoW gray loot basically. Money should be injected into the game through quests/missions (could even be dailies), special events, or found.

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2f2707  No.16849070

>>16849065

>Cease selling vanity items

Why?

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5412a9  No.16849074

File: f86220c36af9205⋯.png (741.97 KB, 1035x419, 1035:419, ClipboardImage.png)

>>16848993

>>16848991

>>16848988

>>16848987

>>16848986

if you're going to be this much of a sperg please go play retail

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06fd15  No.16849085

>>16849065

Never listen to whine. Unless the whine is something along the lines of a class one shotting a raid boss or something. Take WoW as an example here. The bug where Paladins could create a proc with unlimited stacks where they would one to three shot an open world raid boss is a perfect example of balance.

Listening to people complain about shaman's windfury. WoW devs have done more on their own to ruin the integrity of their game through "balance passes" and bending the knee to whine.

Allow player housing, in the actual open world. People create things and chase after vanity items to show off, not to teleport into a static instance that's customizable. All trades and crafting should be allowed to be learned on one character.

>>16849070

Vanity items should be gotten from playing the game. Instead, allow players to sell the vanity items they find from playing the game to one another. If they choose to use real money, take 6% of the amount that it sells for. Generating content with money hurts the integrity of games. My proof are the countless forum posts showing disapproval of such things. However, people DO RMT. Even people who play MMO honestly and more often than not, if it's found out, the account gets banned. Instead, allow them to find the vanity items in game (better vanity items could be hard to get like a drop from a raid boss), and let the players decide how much it should sell for and simply take 6% after the post sales.

This prevents items and things from being flooded into the game by whales. Farmers are fine, but botters are not.

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06fd15  No.16849089

>>16849085

>The bug where Paladins could create a proc with unlimited stacks where they would one to three shot an open world raid boss is a perfect example of balance.

And what I meant here is the changes they did to the ability. That was proper balancing.

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49f789  No.16849124

>>16849044

>instances

God fuck instancing in MMOs pisses me off. It's a bandaid to shitty game design, instead of fixing the fucking game so people will actually want to play together, they just make it so you can bruteforce being alone. What a fucking joke.

>>16849065

>allow players to buy ingame advantages with real money

Fuck off.

>The game should be 60% solo

Fuck off x2.

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ddac4f  No.16849141

>>16849085

>Allow player housing, in the actual open world

I'm all in for this idea, but how doable it actually is? I think Archeage had something like that, but the issues is that there wasn't enough land for every single player. Something similar happens in FF XIV.

I wish MMOs, specially modern ones, were more similar to good RPG and JRPG in that players should be able to have more agency when it comes to building their characters. Regardless if it is a class or classless system, the game should allow to customize your active and passive skills similarly to any other good RPG. It used to be the norm: Guild Wars 1, FF XI, Classic WoW and the like. Nowadays it feels that players have less agency than ever, specially comparing the new games with their old counterparts. Guild wars 1 Class/sub class system with Guild Wars 2 Monoclass system, FF XI vs FF XIV (which has 0 customization apart from gear and materia), and new WoW vs old. Also I wish more fights were based more around classes skills and less about dodging AoEs. Now classes cannot have interesting tools and encounters are balanced to a degree where both bosses and players hardly do anything interesting. No to mention that at times it feels that classes hardly interact with each other. GW 2 and FF XIV are specially bad about this, cutting down classes synergies. GW 2 last time I played it was pretty bad about this, parties felt more like 6 DPS classes going at it rather than actually a team working together.

Also, as had been said before, the open world should be either the main or only content of the game. And it has to be dangerous. A party should be require for long journeys. Solo travels should be dangerous, and things like stealth and consumables mandatory to survive until you reach higher levels at least. Enemies should be smarter, with more unique dangerous skills and behaviors patterns. For example, enemies like wolfs, kobolds, bandits and orc should always go in groups, with intelligent races being specially dangerous, as they will have a party with different specialist (healer, mage-killers, tanks). Status effect similar to D&D would be nice: permanent venoms, petrification, blindness and the like that require medicines or clerics to heal and cannot be just waited off. Going on adventure should feel like one, and teamwork should be require.

At this point though, I don't have much hope for MMOs. I would rather see more multiplayer RPGs and ARPGs, similar to old Baldur's GateS, the new DOS2, MH, etc.

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49f789  No.16849149

File: 51da8be5bdf4a43⋯.jpg (199.06 KB, 661x985, 661:985, goblin_slayer_7603.jpg)

>>16849141

>And it has to be dangerous. A party should be require for long journeys. Solo travels should be dangerous

That's a very interesting idea. What if the game world is so hardcore that it's difficult to properly map out even if you're with friends. And the further you explore it would just get progressively harder until it's harder than endgame raids. Add onto that some kind of dynamic or random element, like monsters being able to migrate their home or patrol areas or run home to bring reinforcements, so you can never fully know what's where or feel like you're gaming the game. Finally make the world fully PVP and it'll become very hard to just grind and go through the motions day after day.

It's starting to sound a lot like a world from some kind of fantasy story. Only very high tier clans would have a chance of seeing what's in most parts of the map, and even they would struggle to get past certain spots.

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ddac4f  No.16849153

>>16849149

>It's starting to sound a lot like a world from some kind of fantasy story

I think that should had been the main goal of all MMOs to achieve. Hell, I'm sure at the start of the genre it was the main allure: a fantasy world populated by real players.

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3fdb63  No.16849187

File: ebeba1c7172303d⋯.png (420.27 KB, 750x898, 375:449, r23.png)

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c60e10  No.16849242

File: 325c83c030ab966⋯.jpg (125.8 KB, 696x924, 58:77, autistlist.jpg)

The genre can't be saved. MMOs attract players who like different things about online play. I avoided WoW growing up because I believe, and still do, that subscriptions are cancer. Games are not a necessity so they shouldn't cost like a utility bill unless you can take it out of your income tax. Some players like PvP, others like the social aspect (ERP), then the lorefags and grind/skinnerbox.

I played GW1 for the story, RS for the Quests. I'm both a story and grindfag, so I typically play solo/PvE. My interactions with other players are when the content forces me to or for informational or marketplace reasons. Personally, I'm not into ERP or PvP. Unfortunately, those two things are what's usually lies at the endgame if no new content flows except more grinding. Roleplay is gay while PvP boils down to having less lag and using some cookie cutter meta build.

I think botting and multiboxing hurts MMOs, especially the in-game economy. QoL scripts are okay but hacking for the sake of having the biggest e-peen in the server seems disingenuous and compensating for something in life.

Mabipro with you fags was the most fun I had in an MMO since pre-GE Runescape and I was glad to have played with you all. Those days aren't coming back though. Too lazy to grind all over again.

F Combat Mastery F Defense

Dual Wield master race SHIELDS ARE FOR PUSSIES KLENN

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1d5cb9  No.16849252

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>16849242

I miss you guys. Like a true family i never had. Like i remember doing gen 1 final boss with Rabbitbust.

Send hearts to Dartier

One World Under Smug

May Ruinous Powers Guide You All

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06fd15  No.16849265

>>16849124

Even in games where there are no micro transactions, people are buying advantages with real money. They buy their gold/equipment off of other players who have played the game. Game companies do this ass-backwards thing where they provide the things and ban accounts who use services outside their own. No one likes it on either side. So instead, allow players to trade the shit they get from playing the game for real money with one another. Some people do have lives and can't grind 24/7 but the mother fucker that does and gets that rare drop and decides to sell it (another thing: everything should be tradeable. Shit that binds to your character is gay as fuck) will profit off his game time. It's a win/win. He looses his advantage while another gains it and the number of people with the advantage of that rare drop is still one. What does it matter whose hands it is in? It only becomes a problem when you can inject the item into the game via currency. But if no one can beat the npc with the drop, no one will have that advantage. You have the option to choose in game currency or real world currency. And instead of the developers injecting crap into their game through micro transactions, they simply take a 6% cut off listings that sell. And weather you like it or not, even games that market themselves as hardcore grouping, can be soloed. Every MMO in existence is like this because if your friends ain't around online to tackle content, no one would ever play. Free agency in a MMO is one of the most important things and having an umbilical chord tied to 4 other players severely limits that.

Eve online can be soloed.

Anarchy online can be soloed.

Old Final Fantasy Online could be soloed.

There has never been a game where solo content wasn't there. Grouping is supposed to give you an advantage alongside being a requirement for harder content. But if grouping is a requirement to play the whole game, your game will fail.

>>16849141

I forget the exact name, but there was an old star wars game in the early 2000s that did it and didn't do it in an instance. Heck there was even an architect profession. You could only be two professions at once in that game, albeit you could replace one of your professions sacrificing all the time spent leveling it. People would literally sacrifice half of their combat capabilities for this profession and players would literally go and do business with them to build their houses/bases anywhere there was land. I even remember seeing a guild's base that was entirely player made in that game and watching pvp occur with players riding giant monsters and what not.

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5fbfeb  No.16849272

>>16849242

if you arent into erp then why did you dress yourself like the brown loli from fate

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3d439b  No.16849277

>>16848803

Hosting definitely does cost money, even running it yourself means hardware and electricity costs with possible internet costs if you have to buy some business tier internet, however it's not nearly $15 a month per person. I think there was a wurm server with 40+ people on at all times and it was $100 a year or so.

I don't think it's anti-consumer to charge money for a server, but it is if the company creates a monopoly for themselves.

>>16849141

>A party should be require for long journeys. Solo travels should be dangerous

This is a great way to kill the MM part of MMO. People will be in some distant area unable to help a buddy because they can't get to each other. Sure it will encourage random grouping, but what's the point if I cannot make long-term connections with people as to ever play with them again will require a group even to meet up with each other. Wurm has this same issue, though it's not too hard to move around solo a bigger issue is how long travel takes and that it's automated. Perhaps if there were teleporters at the cities, but you had to go to a city first before you could teleport there.

>>16849265

>p2w is a good thing

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c60e10  No.16849278

>>16849252

Thanks for the (You)

Here's a blurb about soloing. You really have to be there at the start to get the most out of an MMO experience. When I joined Smug, it seemed like the old guard guildies were ready to move back to Live or wherever. It's just a fact that players come and go in these games.

While our powerplayers were running Shadow Missions in guild chat, I was running the Mine dungeon repeatedly back before I discovered sand sifting. The level gap is real. Carrying lower level players on your back means putting your own progress on hold. Can't be mad having to play catch up like that. "Read the Wiki" meme. It also happened when I tried that RO pserver. Had to solo grind Orc Caves by myself and by the time I was able to join the big boys on their tier, the guild was in its final days.

Soloing can suck because the content is hard without company, like Siren Cave. Or it just feels like you're playing a worse single player RPG. At least GW had henchmen and later heroes to keep the loneliness away while Mabi had pet abuse? Circumstances pigeonhole players into similar-leveled bubbles. Giving tangible incentives to help noobs out might improve things. Not those gay Hearts to Dartier bullshit.

>>16849272

Fuck you. That's why.

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06fd15  No.16849285

>>16849277

It's not pay to win if it's done through player trading. Otherwise, when I use in game currency to get the best gear in a game, I guess I paid to win. No one looks at it like that. It's pay to win when you give money to the developer to magically give you the items. But of no one is finding the loot, no one gets it through trade regardless of if they used monopoly money or real money. Plus, people will still trade with one another for real world money regardless of ToS or game. If there is trading or a market, it will happen. Like that rule that claims if it exists, there will be porn of it.

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000000  No.16849289

>>16849277

>I don't think it's anti-consumer to charge money for a server,

It isn't if you phrase it that way and only address that point in isolation without context. For example if people can self-host the server themselves and you're simply offering people the service for convenience and centralization of the playerbase then it wouldn't be anti-consumer. But that simply isn't the case 99.99% of the time.

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f4bcc6  No.16849292

>>16849278

>Had to solo grind Orc Caves by myself and by the time I was able to join the big boys on their tier, the guild was in its final days.

I did that as well, but I left around the peak of the guild. I was able to play a bit with some of the other guild members which was fun. unfortunately I left the game not too long after. I wish I hadn't forgotten about the game.

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3d439b  No.16849295

>>16849285

>It's not pay to win if it's done through player trading.

If it involves real world currency it is. In-game currency is obtained in game so it's not pay to win.

>no one looks at it like that

Everyone does, why do you think it's against the rules of most games even before microtransactions started? Part of the reason gear binding came about was an attempt to curb that practice.

>it will happen regardless

Murder happens regardless, guess it's okay.

>Like that rule that claims if it exists, there will be porn of it.

>not knowing it by heart

Go back.

>>16849289

Fair point. I wish it was common for mmos to release server hosting, but considering even non-mmos now lock it up I don't see it happening any time soon.

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23d15e  No.16849303

>>16841872

Where the fuck did youu get the mp4 from? The actual server? If so, it does look like the server is far more developed than I thought.

Is there any chance you know how to get in the tester group?

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bdd9ba  No.16849306

So, how is Black Desert actually? is it as cancerous as it was on release?

And how is the RP?

Also to the one who recomended me Crossout, fuck you.

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09b648  No.16849310

>>16849277

>This is a great way to kill the MM part of MMO.

Haven't though about that. I agree with you, player could unlock some form of fast travel once you reach certain towns or milestones, meaning that the first time traveling is dangerous and challenging, but once you do it you can unlock some form of fast travel, to play with those still on the first town. Perhaps also let clerics be able to use some form of teleportation service like so many old MMOs could work too.

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5412a9  No.16849314

>>16849306

BD is trash.

>boring quests

>autowalk

>generic action epic flashy keyboardmashing combat, like a musou but even shittier

>single player MORPG

the game is about opening traderoutes between cities and outposts and automating farming and resource gathering, so you can let the game play itself even more. as if autowalk wasn't bad enough, you automate so you can make money to automate even further and then buy all the epik premium gear and pvp maybe once before you get bored and uninstall.

garbage and a waste of a good character creation screen. dont bother.

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09b648  No.16849320

>>16849310

To add to this

>Sure it will encourage random grouping, but what's the point if I cannot make long-term connections with people as to ever play with them again will require a group even to meet up with each other.

My idea was more along the line that you probably will party with the same people as you would be in a close level of progression, try to encourage forming long term relationships because of necessity. After all, working with someone you have experience with is usually more comfortable than seeking random groups each time, but still I think you are right. Specially when it comes to playing with new players.

On the topic of new players, what are your thoughts on level syncing? I always found it quite bothersome not to be able to play with new players, but at the same time I do not particularly like forced level Synch like GW2, it does takes a bit from the feeling of "power" that RPG gives, so to speak. Perhaps a optional one would be nice (though preferably not like FF XIV which takes away all your skills)

>>16849265

I think it was Star Wars Galaxies. Never had the chance to play it, but I heard it was something else. I also heard that becoming a Jedi was hard as balls and subsequently they were quite respected (and also prime target for bounty hunters and empire soldiers)

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c00fd4  No.16849324

>>16849141

>I think Archeage had something like that, but the issues is that there wasn't enough land for every single player. Something similar happens in FF XIV.

they where also sniped by bots, you could buy several plots at once and was a fucking headache in general

instances exist for a reason. only fucking retards advocate for HURR OPEN WORLD WE NEED TEN THOUSAND PLAYERS IN ONE SPOT. not only is it technically not possible, it will turn the game into a clusterfuck. imagine every raid ending up like fucking vanilla kazzak.

another thing that killed archeage was that this simply doesn't work. it's not how most people play MMOs and expect it to. for example AA is a fine game - if you have a) the exact right amount of population and b) are willing to enforce it. population fluctuates the whole time, you already have hordes of retards dogpiling "the metaserver" at launch leading to longass queues everybody is whining about. and how would you handle server merges afterwards? "we gonna merge you with that other server, enjoy looking for a new plot. but keep paying faget!"

>Guild Wars 1, FF XI, Classic WoW and the like.

gw1 only looked "deep" because the devs were willing to constantly mess with it "to keep it fresh". if they didn't you'd have a meta in 2 months for the rest of the game, just like fucking vanilla wow.

>>16849285

<It's not pay to win if it's done through player trading.

>it's not pay to win when you can simply buy the biggest weapon for money

it's also a good way to have your game infested by even more cheaters and botfarmers since now there's money on the table, so I hope your cheat protection is rock solid (lol).

and you hopefully have enough support on your payroll to deal with all the butthurt and shit when people get scammed and hacked. not only is that absolute shit PR, you better have a lawyer that doesn't fleece you too hard.

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bdd9ba  No.16849343

>>16849314

That's what I thought. I was actually one of the few who was hiped for the game, then they removed P2P trade and exposed themselves as shit.

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49f789  No.16849345

>>16849324

Instances exist for retards who want to play a single player game instead of a massively multiplayer one.

Everyone owning a personal house is fundamentally incompatible with the concept of an MMO unless there's very limited number of players. Even if you made space for it somehow, it would be simply require too much space to be interesting. As soon as you instance it you're adding the biggest singleplayer mechanic bar none, unless you're also designing an unusual game where visiting other people's houses is a major part of the game (think: habbo hotel).

You either make houses expensive and difficult to obtain (e.g. buying predefined housing space in a city), or have some kind of sandbox mode where you have to build it in the overworld and other people can attack/steal it. Either way you can't give everyone a house.

>it will turn the game into a clusterfuck. imagine every raid ending up like fucking vanilla kazzak

>waaah it wouldn't work in WoW therefore it's bad

Either stop thinking of WoW or stop thinking of how to fix MMOs, you can't have both.

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3d439b  No.16849353

>>16849320

>level syncing

Option is of course fine, but forced it's hard to say. Without forced level syncing high levels can farm low level items and zones quickly and easily which destroys those item's values making it harder for newbies to get money. On the other hand having to get those items and make trash craft items you're just going to vendor really sucks also so not letting people do it quickly will piss a lot of people off. Letting it be optional also allows people to just grind until high enough to see low level content solo or have buddies run each other through things but forced is kinda lame because why even have levels at that point.

Might be better to just have levels not be as big of a power boost, then you could play at your peak but it wouldn't be that much of a deal.

I like the idea of forced, but it just annihilates the point of even having levels. Might as well just let people design a character and have the whole world be opened up immediately.

Rift has a decent optional level scaling system, it can be used anywhere and you can lower yourself down anywhere between 10 to 5 under your current.

>>16849324

There does come a point when a game is too instances. I hate how GW has everything but the towns instanced, at that point it's more like a multiplayer RPG that has a 3D lobby than an mmo. GW2 story being instanced is also shit though only because it's mandatory. Then WOW had special instanced group quests that other people couldn't come into.

>>16849345

But anon wow fixed the mmos that came before it

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c00fd4  No.16849391

>>16849345

<Instances exist for retards who want to play a single player game instead of a massively multiplayer one.

>I don't have a fucking clue why instances are a thing and rather bitch about MUH SINGLEPLAYER

<Either stop thinking of WoW or stop thinking of how to fix MMOs, you can't have both.

>you can't use examples if it's wow

>I'm a fucking retard

you are aware that MMO means there are other people on the server, right? and of course it has to be a lot else you'll have some fag whine about "b-but that's not MASSIVE". what's your genius idea that no one ever thought of to not only balance encounters so the offer a challene but not turn them into graveyard-zergs? and not just one but many so better come up with a dozen different ideas while you're at it.

nevermind that shit will never fly for the majority of people to begin with, so good luck finding anyone willing to invest in your 11/10 mmorpg that appeals to a niche that will never make the money back.

>>16849353

>Rift has a decent optional level scaling system, it can be used anywhere and you can lower yourself down anywhere between 10 to 5 under your current.

as much as I like rift the level scaling was pretty meh. "power" is meaningless if all it does is make numbers bigger. there's zero difference if I whack a mob for 30 seconds on level 5 or 30 seconds on level 50.

eso did it better that progression only exists for you but everybody plays on the same level, you still have to get stronger and learn new skills individually so you still feel you progress.

>There does come a point when a game is too instances. I hate how GW has everything but the towns instanced, at that point it's more like a multiplayer RPG that has a 3D lobby than an mmo.

well, you could argue gw1 never was a mmo to begin with (according to the devs).

instances are simply a technically necessity, story is usually for the reason you don't have xXxPR0R0UGExXx messing with "your" story. people already get butthurt when their questnpc is dead (which is silly, but it happens), now imagine that for an important story npc. bonus points if it's permanent for "influencing the story"

at a certain point you have to put in limitations, even more when other players are involved. that's just how it is.

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2a529e  No.16849394

>>16849277

>>16849141

>>16849149

The only game I seen with people playing on a fuckhuge world with practically infinite space for housing is fucking minecraft.

But of course it falls flat when it comes to practically everything else because you know, its Minecraft.

If there was an MMORPG or a Minecraft-like game with an RPG spin on it capable of being an MMO with a prodecurally generated world maybe then it would be possible.

>>16849345

>Everyone owning a personal house is fundamentally incompatible with the concept of an MMO

Well it can be like toontown where everybody has a house but its in their own little instanced island dimension.

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49f789  No.16849427

>>16849320

What is level syncing? Sounds like something that changes your level in which case it's shit. The player character is the center of the game for the player, there's better ideas for connecting high and low level players than changing the character you've spent all that time building.

Mu Online had a mechanic where high level players can party with low level players and kill medium level mobs to help them gain XP fast, and the high level player gains an XP boost if the other players were at a certain amount lower level. It was balanced such that high level players need low level party members for it to be effective to grind those mobs (as opposed to ones of their own level), and the low level players can't beat the monsters that the high level player could. I'm sure other MMOs have something similar but Mu was the only one where I've seen it being such a common thing to do for both high and low levels. The game itself was kind of shit though, the grind was there just for the sake of the grind.

>>16849391

>why instances are a thing

I realize that there's a clarification that needs to be made here. World instancing is completely different, it's used because games are limited by reality. Even if you got over the technical hurdle of hosting a single-server MMO for 10s or 100s of thousands of players at once, you'd need a map big enough to house all those players, which is unrealistic in many ways.

Instancing in terms of "raids" and player houses however is not, it's only excusable if your game is fundamentally wrongly designed and breaks without it. Even if you're simply incapable of letting go of the concept of raids, you'd have to design it so that it's just there, and players can trigger or conquer it however they want to, and it's mechanics and rewards are designed according to that idea. Of course people will zergrushcamp it all day if you make it beneficial to, but if it is then you've designed it wrong.

>>16849394

A Minecraft MMO sounds interesting at first, but in the end you'd just have people blowing everything up with TNT and digging holes to bedrock and generally breaking everything. It would have to be a lot different than Minecraft. I can just imagine the map being miles and miles of untouchable claimed land and/or filled with giant quarries that people spend every day digging just to leave a mark in the world. It would most likely have to be in space and allow people to travel between fixed size planets, I don't see it working well otherwise.

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2a529e  No.16849439

>>16849427

>but in the end you'd just have people blowing everything up with TNT and digging holes to bedrock and generally breaking everything.

That happened within the first couple hundreds of blocks around spawn in the oldest anarchy server in minecraft 2B2T, for a few hundred more blocks away from that its a wasteland and within a few thousand more blocks away from that its a treeless dangerzone with the land scarred by players leaving their mark on the server over the years. Outside of that, survival is possibly somewhat manageable due to the presence of the usual stuff.

But that only tends to happen in purely vanilla anarchy servers without any plugins and what not, spawn tends to be protected, factions and sometimes EXP is incorporated into the game but in a kinda lackluster way. (From what I remember)

The only way for a game like Minecraft to be able to be an MMO is to NOT be Minecraft and be an actual game with MMO mechanics first and foremost with a procedurally generated FUCKHUGE world with the usual RPG shit and what not but spread out to a much grander scale and made to be like what >>16849141 described in his second paragraph.

I am really surprised that no games have done or even tried that yet, Cubeworld was gonna do something kinda similar but not as detailed as what ddac4f wanted but in a singleplayer scale but Wollay went full retard and crashed his game with no survivors.

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49f789  No.16849466

>>16849439

I think Cubeworld is so far removed from Minecraft that it doesn't even make sense to compare them. But if you scaled down people's ability to terraform a lot (or even removed it entirely), it would work much better. Though if you removed building entirely then it's just a normal game with block graphics.

Maybe you can't modify generated terrain, but can place anything on top of it, and breaking other people's blocks increases your pvp-like notoriety unless you've obtained some very expensive land claim for the area.

Procedural generation is in itself interesting though, it could be a good way for indie devs to make MMOs, since you don't have to build a huge world, just the things that generate in it. Different servers could also use a different seed so each one would have a different map. I wonder if it would make a good MMO though, somehow it feels like they're a little incompatible.

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072abf  No.16849475

>>16838263

Publish a documentary which tells normies why WOW is such a shit game, an EQ rip-off designed to cater to normies with noo concept of fantasy, which EQ stole from D&D, and just establish that until someeone caves and makes an MMO tht isn't designed around D&Dderivatatives, the gameplay of MMO's will never be fixed in a meaningful way that move the genre forward.

Unless some madlad get's every D&D3e.5 splatbok, dungen, dragon, pokyhedron RGPA, Kobold quarterl book and WotC web supplements and just translates the entire edition into a game like NWN1, but all the GMshit is in the background making the world, a real rpg or some shit.

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2a529e  No.16849502

>>16849466

>somehow it feels like they're a little incompatible

Thats the exact thinking that leads to the death of innovation and the persistence of stagnation.

If you have a new, original and potentially profitable idea which you don't think it can work, don't sit on your ass, you gotta work to make it work!

Also has Procedural generation with set enviornments/biomes actually been done in an MMO before? You'd think its a no brainer and would be in one out there somewhere.

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2429ab  No.16849513

>>16849502

>don't sit on your ass, you gotta work to make it work!

Sure, how about fronting me $10,000,000?

Oh, is that too much? Because I'm probably ask for about 90 million more later. :)

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2a529e  No.16849532

>>16849513

I would tell you to ask our friendly chinese benefactors overseas but it looks like they are too busy playing irl resident evil and are having quite the barbecue on top of that.

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2a370a  No.16849607

File: 631975f6762cba1⋯.gif (1.51 MB, 235x320, 47:64, 1471432607734.gif)

I wish there was a populated TBC private server around.

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0f8726  No.16849662

>>16849607

Is netherwing dead these days? It was pretty popular when I was still playing it but that was a year ago.

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2a370a  No.16849670

>>16849662

The pop is pretty low I hear, not sure if it was 2k or 5k at peak times. But that would just mean its 2500 players on alliance and horde if the factions were equally balanced.

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06fd15  No.16849672

>>16849295

>Everyone does.

Literally right above what you wrote:

>In-game currency is obtained in game so it's not pay to win.

You contradict yourself. If I don't kill the raid boss to obtain a legendary item but pay someone else for it, I essentially paid to get something I otherwise wouldn't have. The problem is injecting the item through micro-transactions, but if a player wants to trade he should be allowed to. That's why binding stuff was such a shitty idea which lead to people whining about hard content. Because it didn't curb it, they just started selling accounts instead and people who were playing honestly suffered by having their own free agency reduced. Farming became meaningless.

If the item that players trade for real world currency was obtained by someone having to play the game, then it's not pay to win. Otherwise, obtaining it with in game currency would be as well. The only difference is one person spent their time working and being productive in real life and the other spent their time working in a video game and spent their monopoly money. At least when you allow players to trade with one another for real money everyone is happy and the number of that legendary item doesn't increase on the server. Which is the real concern. Shoot, in WoW days, I actually played the game all the way up to Cataclysm (I stopped because Blizzard kept doing stupid shit like changing the way their classes functioned and what not), and during all those years I made several hundreds of dollars and often used the money to eat out. Did it impact your game? No you stupid butt munch. Did it impact your in-game economy? No because the amount of gold within the game stayed the same. Just exchanged hands is all. I raided and all too and thought that binding was stupid because I always had gold (hell I even monopolized the majority of the enchanting market on my personal server and no one even knew about it).

Player trades for in game items is fine. It should be fine when people do it for real world currency.

>>16849320

iirc, if you died as a Jedi, you didn't come back as a Jedi. I don't know if there was a number of deaths or if it was just one. I never became one.

>>16849324

I guess it's pay to win when I use in game currency to obtain the biggest weapon ain't it? Because I didn't do the content to obtain the biggest weapon. Someone else did. Plus, these games are already full of bot farmers. Also, it's not a scam if you see a shitty item and purchase it for a lot of money. That's just ignorance at play. It happens irl and the government PROTECTS these people half the time if they're legit businesses. Look at education. Look at the medical field. Their prices are scams. Plus, I never payed a subscription because I thought any single mmo was worth having as a utility bill, I paid it because the original marketing purpose I was sold on was to prevent cheating. And I have seen games that come with a sub that had cheating and bots.

But if a legitimate player wants to make profit with his time spent in a game, he should. It's not like he made a copy of the IP. It's not like the IP left the server. It's not like he cheated to obtain it. He deserves to see the fruit of his labor if he so chooses to and this would also generate lots of money for the developers as well, because despite the industry, players trading shit for real money still occurs a lot. Hell, my mortgage's down payment was gotten from me selling an eve online account that I was emotionally invested into. I never had the intent to sell it but when I was looking for a house (because of a relationship I was in with a woman), I sold the account for near a thousand dollars.

A friend I knew of who played WoW, never sold or brought anything with real money and was the leader of a guild. One of the biggest ones on the server and they were good enough to be able to do any raid content that came out. When he gave up playing on WoW, he sold his account for a few thousand as well. I never sold my WoW account, but I did sell gold over the internet and by making deals to people face to face in real life. Hell, with personal friends, sometimes money wouldn't even be the transaction. It would be food like a box of pizza or something. None of our accounts ever got the ban hammer, but people were getting things that I got from playing that they had not.

Hell, my eve account that I sold is still active and the player that purchased it is out in null sec and is a capital ship pilot now. He has kills on his kill board from this year as well. The trading happens far more than people realize and if game developers created a way to legally trade players, they'd use their services over ToS breaking ones. Because no one likes the risk. All they would need to do is limit the amount of real money listings a player can have. Limited to like 10 and don't charge them money for listing. Instead, take 6% off the top after it sells.

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49f789  No.16849815

>>16849502

>If you have a new, original and potentially profitable idea

Well that's the thing, you need to believe it's a good idea that'll make something good, and have a vision for what that would be.

There's only one MMO that uses a procedural generated map and it worked very well for it, it's RotMG. However the map is fixed size, it generates roughly the same stuff, only with a different configuration every time, and resets after all the minibosses in buildings are defeated, sending all people currently in the map to the main boss of the game. Procedural generation itself is fine, but what I'm doubtful about is the minecraft-like infinite generation.

The problem with minecraft-infinite procedural generation is that you'll just be exploring the same shit anyway, after a while there's nothing in particular to be found that you haven't already. And since that's the case, why not just wait by a dungeon until it respawns and grind it over and over for it's loot? You can't make the contents non-respawning or else most people will have nothing to find by exploring since everything in a 1000 mile radius is looted already.

How far do you really explore in infinite games before you get bored? The main advantage of it is replay value since the next time you play it'll be different and you can have a slightly different experience as you progress, not the fact that there's ""infinite content"", that's always been nothing but a marketing buzzword. And exploration itself is less satisfying once you get the gist of how it generates, since it can't even generate anything very unexpected or interesting except maybe an unusual piece of terrain that's fun to look at for 5 seconds, nor be a well designed map (as opposed to just randomness). I've yet to see an infinite game that wasn't like this.

There's 2 cases where I can see it working for an MMO; either the map is split into smaller manageable chunks (for example planets in a space game) and you do something special with them (for example some special thing when the whole planet is 100% explored), or then the map resets or changes periodically and thus defeats the point of infinite generation.

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49f789  No.16849819

>>16849815

Actually Heaven and Hearth uses procedural generation as well, but it went with the "every square inch of the map is un-interactable claimed land" thing and it's fucking annoying as hell. It's also made to be reset periodically.

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2429ab  No.16849863

>>16849672

>iirc, if you died as a Jedi, you didn't come back as a Jedi. I don't know if there was a number of deaths or if it was just one. I never became one.

That's how they were at first.. then a later update came and made Jedi a starting class. Some say this finally killed the game. The first lead designer (Raph Koster) didn't want them at all, but implemented the rare unlockable class you mentioned. He wanted people to play Uncle and Aunt Beru instead…but nobody was happy with that either. So Raph left, and Sony tried to make a more Jedi friendly update..which also pissed people off. Too many Jedi. The opposite. but equally bad problem of too many moisture farmers. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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06fd15  No.16849875

>>16849863

By that point I wasn't playing anymore, but a friend of mine was and he noticed the game take a nose dive after that decision. It was something of worth to be a Jedi and people that were one, and successful at it, were rightfully pissed off.

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1619d4  No.16850003

File: ea3360b000f6d5d⋯.png (47.72 KB, 1240x365, 248:73, ClipboardImage.png)

>tfw the forum GM is going out of their way to help people voice their desire for the game to not be censored.

http://archive.is/wip/1asLu

https://forum.pso2.com/topic/587/censorship-is-not-needed-in-this-m-rated-game/45?lang=en-US&page=3

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83fdbe  No.16850078

File: 1a4258e36580ba8⋯.jpg (333.08 KB, 900x1253, 900:1253, ConanFrazetta6.jpg)

Is Age of Conan worth checking out? There's very few Conan games, one pretty bad action game and one decent one, and then there's Age of Conan which somehow still seems to be online. I quite like the setting, but if it's another straight up WoW clone I will give it a pass.

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bdd9ba  No.16850099

>>16850078

It is not in my opinion. Is pretty boring and the tits aren't worth it.

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83fdbe  No.16850137

>>16850099

That's a shame, I was rereading stuff by Robert E. Howard and the setting is really neat in the Conan stories. Sadly there's very few games using it, but if it's dull then lore and shit won't save it.

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6e19fe  No.16850161

File: f27cbcfe46de44f⋯.jpg (77.32 KB, 750x700, 15:14, D5y3e2xW4AEoXyt.jpg)

>>16850078

If you like MMOs, it might be interesting for you. The character creation is still great and things look decent (the graphics were ahead of the curve in 2007), also you can choose attack directions instead of just spamming one attack. I tried it and it wasn't up my alley, but I dislike MMO games in general (just can't understand them no matter what I try) and I won't discourage you.

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5412a9  No.16850268

>>16850003

they're going to cave and censor it like every other faggot jew developer.

this is why no game deserves to be purchased. if you buy, the cucks and manginas outnumber you, and if you don't buy, then the cucks and manginas also outnumber you but at least you keep your money.

if women and retards are going to ruin your hobby anyway you might as well keep your 60$ or whatever you were gonna spend.

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f136c1  No.16850279

File: 3d2518f3967c789⋯.png (1.58 KB, 256x96, 8:3, chat_20180327_153756_Zanap….png)

File: 504c7c24855bd9e⋯.png (4.01 MB, 1900x997, 1900:997, Old Chef explores a fancy ….png)

>>16849242

>>16849252

Mabipro was a wild time and it was the highlight of that year for me. Miss most of you fags.

One World Under Smug

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a66200  No.16850478

>>16850229

It's a basic problem with Star Wars and other properties. It's difficult as hell to justify thousands of MMO players running around as the special/rare/elite units, but everyone is going to want to play as the special/rare/elite units because for a lot of people that's the whole point of playing the game. If there was something else as attractive to be doing it wouldn't be as much of a problem--like, if Jedi couldn't pilot starships, assuming that being a starship pilot was also fun to do. It's a little bit like weapons in the Jedi Knight games. There's this whole lineup of weapons that goes largely unused once you become a Jedi, because lightsabers and force powers are the thing that you signed up to do.

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d5b165  No.16850494

File: fa1412d86142ac7⋯.jpg (87.92 KB, 580x327, 580:327, 23480978.jpg)

I never understood this: so many people are obsessed with MMOs. But then when you play, these people don't want to interact with each other. The don't want to come into the teamspeak, they don't want to group to do stuff and they mute their mic when raiding. Then they spam forums asking for more solo content and complain about stuff that you can only do in groups etc.

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a66200  No.16850508

>>16850494

I've been one of those players. I really can't explain it, except saying that there were a lot of times when I liked the idea of playing with lots of other players around, but not the idea of actually interacting with them. Then again the only MMO I played consistently (other than a few that I played with actual friends, like Earth and Beyond, which NOBODY seems to talk about) was FFXI. As far as that goes, I actually sorta liked Earth and Beyond even though I didn't play it solo. The exploration content was basically made for people who wanted to do nothing but be alone and yet have stuff to do. I can hardly remember anything about the game because that was eighteen years ago, though.

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2429ab  No.16850523

>>16850494

I never exactly liked them. I was first talked into them by a friend. Looking back now, it's funny that it pulled me away from another game I was just discovering: Morrowind. I've since gone back to that kind of game, and not at all trying to make MMOs that type of experience.

But I did play enough early MMOs to see what the landscape was like then. It was kind of sad to see it all go into the EQ/WoW direction. It has a lot more promise than that. Especially with PvP heavy games (I mentioned Shadowbane early on in this thread as a game idea that deserves to be looked into again).

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3e1635  No.16850639

File: 46d9dffd00d3620⋯.jpg (122.45 KB, 1200x542, 600:271, 1200px-HoH_(explorable_are….jpg)

>>16850494

I've never understood why people try so hard to drag others into their voip Why should I deal with an ego inflated manchild on his high horse that screams every time someone messes up. Why should I hear ppl talking about IRL stuff when I'm playing just to pass time.

Why everyone thinks you NEED to join any kind of voip to do stuff? I mean I've reached the Hall of Heroes on Gw1 with no voip.

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1f1d34  No.16851468

>>16849427

>you'd need a map big enough to house all those players, which is unrealistic in many ways.

wtf reality, how do you think people live on this planet? even when you ignore how it relates to gameplay, map size has fuck all to do with it. but I guess blocking millions of people from entering the same spot to not kill the server and your connection or trivializing content is not open world I guess.

not to mention single cluster servers have been a thing for years.

<but if it is then you've designed it wrong.

>hur I have zero clue, I'll just call everything "bad".

anon pls. ever wondered why all you get is "bad" designs? and no, it's not that there's the unique magical formula which no-one has found yet. some shit simply doesn't work, even less so whatever you cook up in your mind.

>Instancing in terms of "raids" and player houses however is not, it's only excusable if your game is fundamentally wrongly designed and breaks without it

you know, it's funny that you bitch about people using wow an example when your own horizon is so fucking limited you have to call everything "badly designed". first of all mmorpgs is a genre, which means it covers a myriad of different implementation. in case you haven't noticed, both ultima and wow are mmorpgs, while being almost complete different. surprising, isn't it?

I'm still waiting for of your super secret encounter design that is a) open world b) has a satisfying challenge and is c) rewarding according to it's difficulty and effort. since you know what is "bad", why don't you tell us what is "good"?

so no, instancing is not "bad design" because "good" or "bad" design doesn't stand or fall with fucking instances. wow has instances as a linear progression themepark to offer challenging content that rewards according to scale, because itemgrind is the game. it simply wouldn't work if everything is fucking kazzak.

as for houses, there's almost zero fucking difference if those are instanced or not. if it's just a doll house you want everyone to have one because it offers another gameplay incentive than grinding shit for a higher number. if people can't get a house they won't grind/trade/buy housing shit. it's that fucking simple. after that it's just a matter how you put it in the game.

if your house has gameplay relevance you want a certain percentage of the playerbase to have one, something you conveniently ignored. if you raise the servercaps like trino did in archeage because people are retarded and whine at launch, it fucks the economy to a point it drives the whole server against a wall (and in turn your earnings, since pissed off players don't keep playing and more importantly don't keep paying).

how you implement each type (open world, housing instance, instanced houses, whatever) means fuck all if it achieves the intended design goals you need.

so unless your grand idea is bleeding money into your super special mmo made for 100 people, you always have to build around several factors (which includes using instances or not) with game systems that work for a large enough playerbase to make you enough money fast enough before you have to shut down.

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1f1d34  No.16851475

>>16849672

>I guess it's pay to win when I use in game currency to obtain the biggest weapon ain't it? Because I didn't do the content to obtain the biggest weapon. Someone else did.

dunno, why did blizz remove the rmah in diablo 3?

> Also, it's not a scam if you see a shitty item and purchase it for a lot of money. That's just ignorance at play. It happens irl and the government PROTECTS these people half the time if they're legit businesses.

anon, just because you got lucky selling gold doesn't mean everyone does. people already stab each other for stealing drops, what you gonna do if you never get the item you paid for or someone steals your account? you just gonna take it or are you gonna whine to support about it? and what if support says "tough luck, nothing we can do, have a nice day?".

companies limit what you can for a reason already, you think they'll voluntarily want to deal with worse shit now that money's involved?

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7847e6  No.16851525

>>16851468

Why do you keep referencing WoW? Also, why would one care if the game they were making was attractive to investors? A videogame is not, by default or intrinsically, a product to be sold.

I think you have played too many MMORPGs and thus can only think of things in terms of MMORPGs. A game where hundreds of people connect over a network, drive cars and race around an open world is a Massively Multiplayer Online game. It need not have some sort of progression mechanic built into the system in order for it to become an MMO. Planetside 2 is an MMO and from my experience the progression mechanics in that game actively hurt its enjoyability since I often found myself improving numbers instead of acquiring options.

I said it before; MMO is not a genre, it is a feature. The view you hold seems to be the cause of many MMORPGs having bad design, where they have all the features that an MMO is supposed to have, but then don't actually allow large groups of players to play together which by definition means they do not have the feature of being Massively Multiplayer.

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2ee591  No.16852185

File: 8efc6a9a7e5ae93⋯.png (271.34 KB, 1795x794, 1795:794, An anecdote of repeating d….png)

File: 5b36615eaafd630⋯.jpg (631.14 KB, 1859x2698, 1859:2698, Log Horizion Strategy.jpg)

File: 5d037513b4becae⋯.png (215.95 KB, 1194x2272, 597:1136, MMOs.png)

Alright it only took me a week, but I managed to get my external plugged in to start dumping images of people talking about interesting aspects of MMOs. A lot of stuff in this thread has been brought up before, but I seem to be missing quite a bit of what I remember seeing.

When I find more time I might try to snag a few things that I see bring up some great points in here.

>>16845866

>reputation is more than a bar

Yeah, VOIP has really done a number on that aspect. It was always nice to watch someone who has been a known dickhead in an MMO get raked over coals by the entire server because of their past behavior. Now the best you get is a server discord or something where everyone has to watch for rules or get turned into a pariah.

As for good mmo or not, I tend to want something a lot more open world, like Wurm, but no harm if you enjoy ESO or any MMO with enjoyable features.

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2ee591  No.16852188

File: ea4a98439c5f7eb⋯.png (602.26 KB, 1787x1490, 1787:1490, A Minor Difference of Opin….png)

File: 92a3850e237c5b2⋯.png (303.69 KB, 1782x951, 594:317, Questing And Story Modes.png)

File: 817dc6e80bcd715⋯.png (414.99 KB, 3588x1059, 1196:353, The Prosecution presents i….png)

>>16852185

and the other set. I actually do like the idea of player collision, but it would mean turning doorways into 50 man wide ordeals for places, unless you can crawl or squeeze around them.

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ccfca8  No.16852208

>>16852188

That'd be easily solved by giving you a button that toggles player collision for two seconds with a decently lengthy cooldown.

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2ee591  No.16852210

>>16852208

That's not a bad idea. And unless you stick with exclusively world PvP you could make it so that you couldn't toggle it in PVP arenas or objective matches to cheese the enemy.

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32c118  No.16852216

>>16848803

>There have been dozens of free to play WoW private servers that cycle through years worth of content without employing sketchy or shit monetization schemes.

>There's return of reckoning, and probably a lot of other completely free private servers that offer a wealth of content without needing people to pay a dime.

Made by who? I don't recall private servers actually making content outside basic quests and novelty/convenience features.

>People that try to justify sub fees have fallen for corporate propaganda.

Is this

Is this a fucking joke? Your entire post is retarded and proves you've never played on official servers of any mmo. I looked up Return of Reckoning and it has a 1500 player limit. 1500 player limit on one fucking server. FFXI used have at least 5k on at a time back when I played and it maintained 10~ servers. You think all of that shit should be free? Do you even know how much that would cost? You think players would host 5k+ servers and make regular content updates? Did you know that ffxi has been running since dial up days? Do you think the shit was cheap then? For shits and giggles, I checked out the server spec for a world of warcraft server. I check a site that would host a server with similar specs and no extra features. That server would cost $460~ a month. I highly doubt that server could hold 5k players. That server also has a donation page.

Speaking of content updates, Return of Reckoning doesn't have any. Your retarded ass example doesn't even have the shit your arguing about. Those private servers you're talking about are just cycling through "years worth of content" that was supported through

You obviously don't know what you're fucking talking about. Typical torpedo shit.

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32c118  No.16852218

>>16852216

>that was supported through subscription fees.

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4c3fbf  No.16852219

>>16852216

I remember a couple years ago, after EA tried to imply that prices were increasing because server upkeep/hosting is expensive, someone almost immediately disproved that and showed that server hosting is so pitifully cheap it's not even worth mentioning. Your server specs for a WoW server don't mean shit, because you're talking about Blizzard - they own all the infrastructure and likely get a hilariously steep discount on their data.

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32c118  No.16852223

>>16852219

>because you're talking about Blizzard -

No, I wasn't.

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32c118  No.16852235

>>16852219

I forgot specify "world of warcraft private server". It's highly unlikely that it has the capacity of an official server.

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49f789  No.16852340

>>16852188

How about pseudo-PVP, it works like duel invitations that cannot be declined unless you move away from the location where it was initiated. Other people can also join into it, either to help (in case it's against a door blocker or something) or to defend (in case it's someone just harrassing others). If you cancel your own duel invitation there's a big cooldown before you can do it again.

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49f789  No.16852440

>>16851468

>wtf reality, how do you think people live on this planet? even when you ignore how it relates to gameplay, map size has fuck all to do with it. but I guess blocking millions of people from entering the same spot to not kill the server and your connection or trivializing content is not open world I guess.

I have no idea what any of this means or how it relates to what I said. When I say "reality" I'm talking about limitations of current technology and the resources that developers have available for making the game and it's world.

People will generally seek less chaotic environment when the amount of people is too overwhelming, the game would just not be fun if there's 86 other people rushing for the same mobs/resources with you all the time no matter where you are. This is why you'd need an unpractically huge map if you want to run a server for something like 100k players at once, because it needs enough space and locations for all those players to spread on. But I do believe it would in most cases be better than an MMO where people are split into multiple servers, because all it would give you is more options.

There's another quality I didn't consider though, which is the availability of professions. If there's 100k players in the same server, it's harder to become a well known cursed shield craftsman, because there's probably countless crafters currently online making perfect shields. In a smaller server it would probably be much easier to find niches to specialize in.

>as for houses, there's almost zero fucking difference if those are instanced or not

This proves to me that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If a house is instanced, it's reduced to just your personal singleplayer mechanic that might as well be a minigame in the game's forums. If it's not instanced, you're building a part of the game world that everyone else inhabits. Even if they can't unlock the door and go in, your house is still there. But depending on the game's design the house could even be open and allow people to go check it out. Or maybe it's possible to picklock it and steal your shit. Either way it's now part of the MMO, not a singleplayer mechanic that doesn't affect anyone else.

Runescape's houses at least in the early days were somewhere inbetween, when Construction was new people stood around the house portals a lot inviting other people into their houses, and used other people's altars to train prayer and combat rings to mess around with safe PVP and such. It partially inhibited the instanced quality I mentioned before; people visiting each other's houses being a significant part of the game. If visiting other people's houses is properly managed like this, then instancing is more acceptable because it's now used largely as a multiplayer mechanic.

But even Runescape missed the mark for the most part, it's too inconvenient to find other peoples houses and there's no way to "explore" them and you can only access them from portals in weird locations, there's no way to connect one house to another, I don't think you can even visit a house without the owner being there, the way you build them is too restricted so houses look very similar, it's too convenient to use them as a pile of singleplayer features…

I can think of ways you could begin to fix it though, it wasn't too far from being alright. For example in order to use your house, you need to open it for access to everyone. Then add some kind of way to explore and visit and favorite currently open houses. Technically this doesn't affect your ability to use it as a singleplayer mechanic, but it's much better integrated with the game world. Add more multiplayer things you can do in the house, make the buildable teleport portals cost something to use but allow otherwise free travel between different parts of the world, add things that are hard to build but can be used for other skills at low levels. Give more reasons to visit people's houses, and make it harder to build the house yourself.

>if it's just a doll house you want everyone to have one because it offers another gameplay incentive than grinding shit for a higher number

Firstly grinding fatigue is a sign of bad game design (it implies that grinding IS the game), and I shouldn't have to explain why adding more singleplayer mechanics to solve it in an MMO is stupid.

As for "bad design", when I say bad design, I mean it's bad design because it makes for a bad MMO. A good MMO is one where people interact with one another naturally without a game algorithm making you to, the game mechanics are designed around playing together rather than pushing people apart, and everything is rooted in the same world that other people play in. If you think that a bunch of singleplayer minigames with a multiplayer lobby is great MMO design, then all I can say is that your opinion is fucking shit. If you don't want to fix MMOs then stop posting ITT.

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3d439b  No.16852484

>>/16852216/

>he's still going at it

I looked it up too, $50 a month is on the high end and Blizzard owns their own shit so it's even cheaper.

>>16852185

>Now the best you get is a server discord or something where everyone has to watch for rules or get turned into a pariah.

The reason for this is to avoid rules. Most MMO servers are banhappy as fuck, you can get banned in FFXIV for talking about DPS numbers. Thus discussion is moved elsewhere so you can avoid the mods and even if someone in the guild gets butthurt and reports someone else on the 3rd party chat the worst that happens if they're banned from that and just make a new account.

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49f789  No.16852497

>>16852484

I'm pretty sure running your own professional server machines and paying for the bandwidth is more expensive than renting some cheap box from a server provider. Not that I've ever done it so I don't know.

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3d439b  No.16852505

>>16852497

That is definitely not true, if it was companies wouldn't run their own servers. Consider that the server provider already has the server machines and is paying for bandwidth, but also wants profit. A company renting from a server provider is still paying for the machines and bandwidth but is also paying extra so the company can make profit.

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49f789  No.16852524

>>16852505

Then why rent a server at all if it's more expensive and gives you less control over it? Renting servers is somehow more popular though.

This whole topic is kind of annoying because of how little practical information there is about it. Server costs change a lot depending on traffic and the hardware required, and it's obviously important to differentiate between the cost of running one server/realm vs running all of them. Even if it costs millions to run WoW, that doesn't mean it costs millions to host an MMO, because WoW as a whole has much more separate servers than you'd need for a smaller MMO. And then there's indirect costs, when someone says running a server costs XXX/year, does it include things like server maintenance, employees, electricity and new content creation?

What's the best actual, non-hypothetical information we have about MMO server costs? And MMOs specifically, a web server is not the same as an MMO server. A CoD server for 20 people is not the same as an MMO server for 2000 either.

It would be cool to compile all this information with links to sources and all, since this seems to be a common debate.

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49f789  No.16852595

File: 77db8c6c0434759⋯.png (93.76 KB, 1149x774, 383:258, server.png)

I just looked at some server costs and for around $140/month you could get a dedicated server with 8-core 4GHz cpu, 64GB RAM, 2TB SSD, and unlimited 1GB/S network connection.

https://www.ovh.com/world/dedicated-servers/game/prices/

Frankly I could pay that from my pocket. Assuming that was used to host an MMO server with 1000 people, the players would have to pay 0.14$ per month to pay for the server itself. Since it's a rental, you don't have to care about maintenance or electricity costs separately, nor buying the hardware.

Anyway basically the cost of the server itself seems to be trivial compared to the cost of even a single employee ($1500-4000 per month). It's not "free", but the price would appear to mostly depend on how many people are needed to take care of the server (fixing issues, customer service, handling bans/account shit, etc) and/or developing content.

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3d439b  No.16852604

>>16852524

>Then why rent a server at all if it's more expensive and gives you less control over it?

Convenience, especially for cheaper shit. If you want a small teamspeak server you could get one for less than $4 a month. Found a site that charges $0.20 per slot. For non-tech companies they may not have the knowledge to set it up so they just rent one. Also, since the hardware is a high initial investment and only need a server temporarily renting is a better option. Clearly that's not the case for mmos that are planned to be up for years. Privacy could also be an issue, individuals may not want something that connects to their home IP.

>little practical info there is

You can just look up the costs. That's rather practical. Take the teamspeak case, $4 a month for 20 slots would be $48. A raspberry pi starter kit is $100. Looking online I see calculations of electricity costs of $7.03, 8.79 (high calculation) euro bucks, 4.06 euro (low calculation). I even calculated it for my state

>400% CPU load (stress –cpu 4) 1280 mA (6.4 W)

Highest one, rounded it up to a full 7 watts. 24 hours a day, and rounded it up to a full $0.14 per kw/h. $9, rounded up again, for a year.

$48 vs $9, granted it will take some time to pay off the raspberry pi.

>does it include things like server maintenance, employees, electricity

Yes.

>new content creation

No because that's not server hosting.

>mmo specifically

Can always look up wurm servers. For wurm I found a site hosting a 4gb server for 100 people at $20/month. Definitely doesn't need 100 people all paying $15 a month to keep running. However, I choose that specific setup because that raspberry pi is a 4gb box and could run this. So compare the cost of the raspberry pi to this hosting and you'll see it is MUCH cheaper if you choose to just host your own stuff.

Completely anecdotal, but when playing a wurm server that had 40-50 people on at any time the guy said it cost about $100 a year to run.

>>16852595

>64gb of ram

>2tb ssd

That ssd size seems like overkill. Using the 4gb for 100 people like in wurm, that could hold 1600 people, I'm sure it differs from game to game though so 1000 is a pretty safe number,

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3d439b  No.16852615

Oh yeah and considering adding content, that shouldn't be considered unless the content is free. Games that charge for expansions cannot use that as an excuse for higher monthly fees since they're already charging for the content.

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49f789  No.16852642

>>16852604

>You can just look up the costs

You can't look up the cost for an MMO server because there's no such thing. How do you know how much performance the server needs to have? How do you know how much electricity it'll use in average? There's very little information about it and you can only hypothesize based on vaguely related information. It's hard to tell what the difference between a server for 100 people is vs a server for 1000. Neither the bandwidth nor CPU/RAM requirements are necessarily 10x, that's why it would be good to have information from an MMO server with a user count of around 1000-2000.

>>16852615

Using multiple payment methods is top kikery anyway.

I'm personally of the opinion that monthly cost with no additional payments nor cash shops is the best payment model for an MMO. It supports indefinite development and all other costs, and doesn't encourage the developers to adding themepark shit just to justify charging people for another expansion pack nor splitting playerbase between who has the expansion and who doesn't.

Cost should be around the cost of servers+developers, which seems to be $1-5 per month depending on scale of playerbase and development efforts. I don't think I'd want to dedicate myself to an MMO that is never going to get any new content.

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023ca8  No.16852645

File: f972431245cc0f4⋯.jpg (54.82 KB, 839x900, 839:900, DJ7guqmVwAEXeh6.jpg)

>Subscription model

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49f789  No.16852649

File: e98b0f81eb98510⋯.png (78.38 KB, 269x329, 269:329, 1581589630926.png)

>>16852645

>no argument

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3d439b  No.16852654

>>16852642

>You can't look up the cost for an MMO server because there's no such thing.

If you didn't know, Wurm is an mmo that players can host. If costs to run it are only vaguely related I'm not sure what you're wanting.

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49f789  No.16852657

>>16852654

Does it typically run 1000+ player servers? I haven't heard of it being that kind of game.

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000000  No.16852664

>>16852216

>Made by who? I don't recall private servers actually making content outside basic quests and novelty/convenience features.

Every WoW private server ever created does this since the entire game had to be reverse engineered. Some better than others, some like the Lightshope core was scripted better than even actual Classic WoW.

>I looked up Return of Reckoning and it has a 1500 player limit. 1500 player limit on one fucking server.

Okay? What does this have to do with anything? The content is provided completely free of charge. If your argument is scaling then that only supports my argument even more since as far as I'm aware the costs only get cheaper as you scale servers upward, especially to the scale at which mega corporations are doing it.

>You think all of that shit should be free?

What shit? You're being incredibly vague.

>Do you even know how much that would cost?

Yeah I do since this post outlined it quite well >>16852595

, though I suspect the real cost when scaled up would be substantially cheaper.

>You think players would host 5k+ servers and make regular content updates?

Players have hosted servers with upwards of 15k concurrent players like Nostalrius and the Nost core was built from the ground up. I don't know what world you're living in where games aren't routinely reverse engineered and open sourced for completely free, but it's not the same world I'm operating in that's for sure.

>I checked out the server spec for a world of warcraft server. I check a site that would host a server with similar specs and no extra features. That server would cost $460~ a month.

Then you don't understand server scaling.

>Speaking of content updates, Return of Reckoning doesn't have any. Your retarded ass example doesn't even have the shit your arguing about. Those private servers you're talking about are just cycling through "years worth of content" that was supported through

Having to reverse engineer all of the scripting for the entire game is providing work for free to the players. Your entire argument is based on the idea that this content wouldn't exist without a subscription fee because it wouldn't be profitable enough for anyone to consider doing it for less, and yet people worked on multiple server cores for various WoW expansions and completely reverse engineered the entire server side of the game (which is 99.99% of WoW) without demanding a subscription fee. Your argument isn't based in reality. We know that people are willing to do this, people have literally done this. You can go and download the open source lightshope core for WoW right now and modify it to your hearts content. This does happen.

>You obviously don't know what you're fucking talking about. Typical torpedo shit.

Why are you so mad about this?

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3d439b  No.16852669

>>16852657

A rather niche game with plenty of options, but there are servers with a few hundred people on at a time.

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023ca8  No.16852671

>>16852649

Yet, its definitely retarded you.

How come a MMO thread can have millions of screencapped posts about people with 99 years playing MMOs, and none of the people posting know anything? I can only assume that most of yours truly are poseurs.

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49f789  No.16852687

>>16852664

I don't think you can compare private servers to official servers. People do all kinds of shit out of passion and goodwill and will pay for all the time and costs and personal living expenses from their own pocket using money they made from another job/neetbucks. But businesses don't operate like that, they have to get all the running costs and employer salaries from the things they run/create or else they go out of business.

Which method(s) to use for gaining shekels and when it comes to over-charging is another subject though.

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4f824a  No.16852694

File: 9387f902e055dbb⋯.png (328.87 KB, 657x360, 73:40, Mozart rolling his eyes.png)

>>16849187

You literally described all MMOs at this point, Asian, American, and otherwise.

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2a370a  No.16852704

File: ceed4268d59dd98⋯.jpg (38.87 KB, 500x374, 250:187, 1471432607742.jpg)

So anyone eager for the FRESH TBC Endless private server thats coming?

Or will it just be another dead on arrival server?

I hope the server pop is big, I love same level WPVP.

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000000  No.16852715

>>16852687

>I don't think you can compare private servers to official servers. People do all kinds of shit out of passion and goodwill and will pay for all the time and costs and personal living expenses from their own pocket using money they made from another job/neetbucks.

I don't think it's a 1:1 comparison obviously, but things are really put into perspective when the free to play private servers end up being scripted better, providing more stability, and better game experiences than the official products, which is in my opinion absolutely the case for the WoW vs. Classic WoW situation.

The point is that I don't consider $15 a month for a inferior proprietary product competitive for an MMO anymore now that the community has been exposed to the FOSS approach that we ended up with in the years leading up to Classic WoW's release. But that anon was acting like $15 sub fees are completely mandatory for the creation of the games in the first place, which we know is not the case. I don't think you can necessarily right off these projects as unrealistic since they are passion projects either. Whether they're done out of passion or not doesn't have any bearing on me as the end user. If I get a product in which I feel like I have agency over my purchase (or lack there of) then that's what I'll choose over the product that is just software as a service that can be destroyed or warped at any given moment.

Sub fees are absolutely unnecessary for a fully priced AAA title. Sub fees are always anti-consumer if the product can not be self-hosted. Software as a service is inherently unethical.

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549921  No.16853239

>>16838263

For me, daily quests ended my interest in MMO's. With daily quests, instead having a selection of different grinding areas with varying experience/money gain ratios you can grind in as much as you want, you have one or two areas that give the best experience and money for a couple of hours and then you might as well not play for the rest of the day because every other "grinding" area in the game is super inferior to daily quests. Daily quests are a way for developers to control what players can do in a genre that is supposed to be simulated freedom, and they're a way to artificially extend goal times so players pay for more subscription fees.

I had a blast with ARR, despite it being a WoW clone, because FATEs and super easy alt leveling by tying every job to one character kept the world feeling alive and populated. But then I hit the level cap with every class, had nothing else to do for advancement except daily quests, and immediately quit the game after realizing there is nothing else to do for advancement in anything - PvE, PvP, crafting, collecting - except daily quests.

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2ee591  No.16853320

File: f2e45d2c5458998⋯.jpg (47.67 KB, 512x512, 1:1, f2e45d2c54589984689cd05d9c….jpg)

Reading over a lot of this, especially upkeep costs has me wondering if some of the issues in finance could be addressed. Clearly the server costs aren't really an issue unless you toss in the tech support who keep tabs on it or the electricity to run it, but I would assume that unless you had a large enough publisher (which in itself is often a devil's deal) the real issue is keeping the game devs themselves fed and salaried.

I'm sure that by treating your workers as valuable assets throughout the development cycle would go a long way to start with. Especially compared to the slave rings the larger groups run ,but they need to eat, pay off their loans and buy their soy subscriptions. To do this, they need to be paid while they work on the game, get a break for getting it out there, and paid when they come back in to work on new content.

To this I feel like there are a few questions that need to be answered.

>1) How long do you intend for the MMO to last?

Not everyone is as lucky as Blizzard with getting all the right condition to get an almost 2 decade long MMO made, and thinking your game is going to be the same is a quick way to lose loads of money. It's great that you want it to last as long as it can, but as I stated above you have more likely than not many devs , and if you lacked the capital, a hungry publisher above you waiting to pull the talent their money hired and turn your passion project into a low quality husk before closing down the game because of lack of interest for making yet another WoW clone. We have seen a decent number of games recently that talked about decade long life spans, ending up as all talk. You can still try to go the "we'll be up as long as we can" route, and if you stick to it and end up with money on the other side you'll have loads of eager fans ready for the next game.

>2) What is your pay model?

Always a tough question. Do you try the AAA strategy and make rubes pay for your game followed the subscription model that inevitably goes f2p with subbers getting awful in game compensations? Do you go full gook and give Age of Wushu a run for its money on the pay2win route? What about making a pay2win grindfest and use the capital from that to fund your new game? Regardless of choice, people will hate you and it.

>3) New content or expansion packs, or how you will keep the game alive?

Even a bottom of the barrel MMO will eventually need new content to keep veterans satisfied and casuals interested. Do you stick with minor balancing and release large expansion packs/regions for more content? Do you push out weekly/monthly updates with quality of life changes made? Do you leave the game alone and start the dev cycle with a brand new mmo or game? Regardless, you still have overhead costs from running the buildings you use, the utilities, tech, and the workers themselves. You could at least give most of them vacations in staggered order, as you doubtless had them doing crunch to meet the release date. If they are working you can get product improvements or changes out of them but you may have to find a way to recup losses and that's before we even talk about if you are going to try and keep all your workers once the game is done.

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c5e2ae  No.16853526

>>16839210

If you can't shut up about them niggers and kikes ruining everything for 5min when playing a fucking game meant to be fun then you fucking deserve to be banned retard.

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c5e2ae  No.16853531

>>16838337

Fucking this, the random dude I met online was usually way cooler than the faggots in the guilds I joined.

I met tons of people that way, I kept playing with some of them for 5-10years.

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d43916  No.16855983

>>16853526

kill yourself. the internet used to be fun and you were allowed to make jokes, now we can't because retarded cucks like you who openly support censoring everything.

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8a0a80  No.16856038

>>16853526

>>16855983

Whining about Juden is perfectly fine in a normal setting, but I'd argue its a lot more fun to do it in character to the race the devs inevitably create to be Jews, in space/fantasy/Asian.

Doing it for shock factor can be a laugh, but people are so desensitized these days you'll have to put a lot of effort in for it to be good, that all being said, MMOs and games in general today are a lot more about report and ignore instead of being with the people you're with. People should be able to take a joke, but people play gaymes as escapism. So I say, mock the orc and gnome, but leave the nig and jew at home. unless it's guild chat and someone asks a dumb question

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d43916  No.16856373

>>16856038

i dont even talk about jews inside games, im not stupid and i know the rules. he's making a fallacy of exaggeration to discredit my point because he's a fucking censorship-loving israelite niggerkike.

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3b7166  No.16858075

>>16853531

i am pretty much done with MMORPGs, and only playing isometric RPGs now. I do sometimes play ESO for the PvP, and cause ESO doesnt require a monthly sub fee.

Time to boycott MMORPGs until the WoW clone fucking shit finally dies and the genre is born anew.

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01d98f  No.16858138

Black Desert Online is free on steam now for a limited time

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ac5c59  No.16858168

>>16858138

It's still too expensive

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e149bb  No.16858332

>>16858138

Gonna give it a try. How bad and jewish is it?

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ac5c59  No.16858375

>>16858332

>How bad

It can be enjoyable for a few hours, but after you reach a certain point your progression slows down to snails pace after being showered with levels and gear upgrades. The only content is farming the same mobs hours/days/weeks or pvp. PvP sucks ass because only things that matter are gear and levels, player skill has barely anything to do with it.

>How jewish

You gotta buy pets or you will have to loot manually, meaning that you have to spam [your loot keybind] 2 times per mob and most of the time you kill packs with 5+ mobs. I heard you can get pets for free now, but don't know for sure.

You can also buy the best gear in the game (does need a bit of luck and A LOT of money) that takes months of grinding to get.

Oh and all characters of the same class have identical gear visually unless you buy a costume.

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97ae8a  No.16858846

Black desert is free on steam till mar 2

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97ae8a  No.16858848

>>16858846

i'm retarded and didnt read the thread let me delete my post!

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48d670  No.16858883

>>16858332

Even the players themselves admit that it's a P2W game. PVP seems to boil down to who can spam the other to death faster (see: in about 3 seconds).

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99e4ee  No.16862251

>>16858332

>How bad and jewish is it?

ALL progression is thoroughly gimped in every aspect if you don't pony up. And i do mean everything.

Now i havent played since it was released so what i remember is out of date but i do know that it got worse

also read it had a post that broke it down to cost but with a cursory search i couldnt seem to find itnot that its surprising with the amount of apologists i saw

>pets pick up loot for you, and in a game where the only content is griding and pvp the amount of time spent looting can rack up.

>pets provide both pet type passives like warning about rare spawns, hostile players while also having stat passives like more xp gathering/combat/leveling/training horsees

>pets can be bred to lower pickup cooldowns and increase passives

>last time i played you only got 1 or 2 "free" pets, but the active pet limit is 5

>all but usually 1 armor set looks pretty shitty so they sell costumes

>these give passive stats aswell and while most costumes give combay/levling + xp there are themed ones that do more specific xp gains like more xp when gathering/training horses/fishing ontop of the passive stats

>horse armor which also boosts thier stats and xp gain

>more weight and inventory, bank and storage slots

>summonable "maids" which are basically more storage slots

>refining items

> a monthly subscription that increases inventory/weight limits, xp gain and some other misc stuff, better contribution point regen

>more character slots, which means more contribution points to use since they are tied to characters but affect the account

>items that allow horses to breed more than once

I know theres more but i cant remember it all. I also knw they added more ways like something about destroying costumes for an item that guarantees a successful refinement

But honestly its not an exaggeration to say that every aspect of the game has been monetized

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0691df  No.16862557

>>16862251

The threads about dead anyway but to better explain the weight portion of this anon's post

>almost everything in game has weight

>even money

>because everything has weight without a value pack you will not be able to do PvE grinding or skilling for very long without needing to be in spitting distance of a bank

>what's worse is that you have MAYBE 10 slots in each towns storage at the max without a pack

>almost everyone uses these to hold the materials and results of their worker empire

>if you have no open slots, all work stops

so while you CAN play without paying for one (you might even grab one if you're lucky on the auction house) the second you redeem one you're essentially forced to keep doing so, or lose out on everything. Grinding mobs is a lot tougher when your weight limit means you can't pick up their trash drops or money. You can't still easily with no room in your storage or inventory. And my favorite part about value packs, they also take away the 25% "tax" that th auction house places on all bought and sold items.

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0bb23f  No.16865968

File: e0c420f699b7b6a⋯.jpg (410.17 KB, 957x473, 87:43, project-bbq-2020-confirmed.jpg)

Anyone notice that Project BBQ (codename for the 3D Dungeon Fighter Online that was announced in late 2018) was put in Nexon's roadmap for a 2020 release?

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77b419  No.16867492

>>16838302

We've moved past the "we want another WoW" phase years ago. Wildstar doing horribly proved that.

People want AAA single player quality but on a larger scale, which is why you now have retards who care for nothing but god tier graphics and then act surprised when everything else is shallow

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18cbdc  No.16867715

>>16838317

>Players outside of Japan can be banned for not being in Japan.

I've been playing on Ship 2 for over 5 years and haven't had any issues. People only get banned if they're being obnoxious cunts.

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b22c26  No.16868464

BUMP! Been playing Final Fantasy 14 and enjoying it a lot

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