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a90df2 No.16784053[Last 50 Posts]
This has been something on my mind for quite some time now. Should the existence of mods that vastly improve on a shit base game be enough to recommend an anon pirate and play said game?
The example I have in mind is XCOM 2. I think both firaxis XCOM games are shit-tier, with a terrible mobile game level base of mechanics, terrible technical performance and are overall terribly designed(considering how many of the mods I use for the game are QoL improvements that should have been in the games since Enemy Within, and that includes all the "improvements" Enemy Within and War of the Chosen bring to the table). But I think a lot of mods make the game worth playing(Although I admit it's because I'm in want of a middle ground between the Microprose X-Com games and the heavily streamlined Firaxis XCOM games) like the A Better Everything collection or Spectrum, which heavily improves AI and enemy variety, shakes up research, gives you a lot of options in how you tackle missions and overall just makes the game actually worth playing instead of requiring copious amounts of grenade spam for the early game before the player realizes how shit the AI is and how easy it is to manipulate.
Another example I have in mind, although it's much more minor, is Mega Man X5 which lets you mod out Alia's in-game dialog and it heavily improves the experience considering you're not being stopped every 5 seconds to be told "HEY DUMBASS YOU CAN ATTACK THIS COLOR CODED SWITCH TO OPEN THIS MATCHING COLOR CODED DOOR".
But on the other hand, some games still stand out vanilla, like Thief or Deus Ex(speaking of DE what were the first playthrough patches to use? I'd like to play vanilla again before replaying with a bunch of mods) or the original X-Com(unless fanmade "run on modern hardware" fixes like OpenApoc or TFix counts which I don't think it does, in X2's case a lot of the mods I use are weapon/class/AI/enemy changes).
What do you think, anons? Does a shit game retroactively become worth playing as in pirating, dumbo if mods heavily improve it(In contrast I can't really think of Skyrim mods that make it worth playing, even the porn ones although I haven't played many and I don't really want to) or is a shit game a shit game no matter how many good mods exist for it?
Also on a side note, what are some good mods you'd recommend for any games? I'd recommend Spectrum Green for X2(although since it runs on vanilla and not WoTC it runs like ass because X2 runs like ass), The X-Com Files for OpenXcom and the weapons v1.1 mod for Doom 2016 since it's a pretty neat gameplay changer for the game.
On a side side note, why are most of the XCOM 2 modders adamantly determined to announce that they dislike pirates and have to dedicate at least two passive aggressive sentences about how assblasted they are by pirates? Is this because of Workshop?
Also where the fuck are the 40K TCs for X2? I looked a bunch of collections up and it's like 80% chapter flags, 10% audio packs from DoW and 9% model changes with very little gameplay changes
tl:dr; Should mods fix it even if you're pirating it?
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fb6c52 No.16784064
A shit game will always be a shit game at its core, only a total overhaul-type mod can fix that.
But in that case, you might as well count it as an entirely different game at that point I think.
Theseus's Ship and all that.
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c12e86 No.16784068
Some PC ports are horrible but get fixed by mods, if that counts.
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d8de46 No.16784086
>Should mods be reason enough to recommend a game?
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7bf44e No.16784111
>>16784053
If you're not buying said game, maybe. Like Paradox games.
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18b576 No.16784113
>>16784068
I think that only works with games that could've been great, a normal shit game I don't think can be modded to be good. For example, Gothic 3 and VTMB are only enjoyable with mods, yet no matter how many mods you pump into Skyrim it never becomes good unless you make it a porn game.
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a90df2 No.16784121
>>16784113
Even as a porn game I don't think Skyrim is any good, you can only do so much with 3D animation I think and skyrim isn't a particularly good looking game in the first place.
>>16784068
It should count. Outside of the PC port Vanquish ran like ass but it was still a fine game, you didn't need at least 5 hypothetical gameplay related mods for it to be worth playing on console when it was the only option.
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ffaa31 No.16784127
>>16784113
STALKER is a good example of this. The amount of mods and total conversions to it speak.
>>16784053
I'm gonna say yes. Because a game can have flaws due to bugs, rushed development or bad story, controls or graphics, all these can be fixed with mods. Some core concepts of the story and combat mechanics can't be completely changed without a overhaul but mods can hide bad elements of story, change it for a new lights and ultimately make the game better than an unmodded version.
Recently did a modded play-through of Witcher 3 and actually found myself enjoying because of all the small mods I got, like Igni looking like fire, Geralt spinning on the spot to dodge instead of rolling everywhere, leveled legendary weapons so I have a new sword and armor for each mission plus high rez character models so Ciri looks pretty.
Another example is with Mass Effect 3, a game so bad there's a modded ending that changes it so there's no Star Kid and the story focus shifts from organic vs synthetic, to Shepard rallying the galaxy and the strength of a diverse force with everyone fighting the Reapers, something the original writer didn't intend I think. There's also Extended Galaxy that adds much needed fluff, a mod that replaces the dreams of the Star Kid with Shepards previous adventures and love interest, making you believe that Shep has seen some shit.
Yeah, the overall story is still kinda weak this game matters to people enough they made their own ending. That passions drives people.
So in summary, yes, mods good and can fix alot of stuff but only if it can be fixed. No amount of mods can fix Fallout 4.
Also fuck Bethesda Creation Club. It's mostly just skins anyway.
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6530c0 No.16784141
I've always thought that a shit game isn't worth playing even with mods, but maybe it depends on the type of mod. If the base game is well designed but mods help it run better or fix some technical issue then that would be more understandable than something like Skyrim which would need 50 mods to even be a little fun because it's so boring. If you have to use mods to make the game not shit at all then I don't really see the point, but if the mods just help a good game be great then I could see that being fine. So I don't think just mods alone should be a reason to recommend, but can be part of a recommendation for an otherwise good game without them.
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cbeef9 No.16784147
>>16784053
It's fine as long as you make it clear that you're recommending it based on the modded capabilities, not the base game.
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b6fb7b No.16784190
Actually, yes. Just pretend we're in 2009.
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3064af No.16784246
>>16784147
Ditto this, though I wonder that Anon means by: >>16784127
>STALKER is a good example of this. The amount of mods and total conversions to it speak.
In response to: >>16784113
Vanilla S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is still a good game.
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030e58 No.16784254
>>16784246
Vanilla S.T.A.L.K.E.R. still needs some QoL bugfixes. It's similar to Dark Souls with DSFix. Yes it works without it, but itsn't a nice experience and not how the game is intended to be in the first place. Slavs didn't mean to make their game a bugfest, and Fromsoft didn't mean to make their game run at negative FPS in Blighttown.
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10e2f1 No.16784257
All depends on the price and the games, for example i would say that XCOM: UFO Defense is not worth buying it because it was an abandonware for a decade, i still have the Home of the Underdogs ZIP.
And since we are talking abut XCOM, the modder narcisist faggorty stiked OpenXcom modding community, some moder claimed his mods so that they cannot be used in others mods so mods like the Final Mod Pack has been taken down since it uses a tactical map collection mod from the fag moder.
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f554a6 No.16784259
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a90df2 No.16784261
>>16784257
>AMC
As in the ones from the duke total conversion? I didn't get particularly far into that one because my earlier toaster couldn't run it well and I haven't tried Douk on this PC yet.
>Final Mod Pack
Holy fucking shit. Why are more and more modders turning out to be colossal faggots? At least the Total War modders are still somewhat chill, at least the medieval 2 scene.
>>16784254
Sure, but when I was talking fixes when it comes to XCOM 2, I'm talking about the bare fucking minimum. Things like weapon markers or range indicators, or having the shadow chamber information on the fucking squad select screen instead of the preceding geoscape screen, or a better squad select option, or even color coding abilities to show how many actions they take, or why destroyed advent turrets don't count as cover, or why the sensitive supply crates you're supposed not blow up aren't marked, or even the bare minimum of that travesty of a default health bar for units.
X2 fundamentally fails in a lot of shit but its sole saving grace is that it's so moddable you can fix most of it and have a good game on your hands.
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10e2f1 No.16784271
>>16784261
AMC is a free standalone mod so you can just download it right now and also they incoprorated a graphical artist, which is a tolerable furry, no fetishes or weird stuff forced into the plot (for now…) to the team wich made an sprite overhaul, so now it has unique player and enemies sprites along with other extra stuff from other mods.
>At least the Total War modders are still somewhat chill, at least the medieval 2 scene.
The problem with Total War is that the player base is not very bright, the game appeals not for its strategy but for seeing tiny men fight each other, the only mod that fixes the game somewhat is Stainless Steel, but there are no good mods about medieval historical realism (the Historical Realism mods for Stainles Steel is garbage, you can defeat 4 regiments of spearmen milita with just 1 heavy cavalry general, the units stats are all over the place).
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58c2a5 No.16784279
>>16784271
Broken Crescent is pretty good. But they can only do so much with a dated game engine, with no source code.
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a90df2 No.16784303
>>16784271
At some point I hope that one Medieval Kingdoms mod for Atila turns out good because I have zero hope for Total War.
Also I wasn't aware AMC was standalone, neat. Did the whole economy layer go anywhere or is it just fluff? I mean I kept finding all these research options and scientists/engineers and whatnot but at the end of the day I never ended up using any of it,although I only got as far as the secret level where you get an absurdly OP temporary weapon.
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7d5217 No.16784314
Hypothetically if HL2 had been a shitty game yet all the mods for it still existed then I would recommend its engine at least. Don't think I would ever recommend original game+mods however. Too much hassle to put lipstick on a pig if a game is inherently shitty. Mods should enhance games but not save them from being trainwrecks.
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6b7333 No.16784328
>>16784271
Have you never played Europa Barbarorum?
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7623fd No.16784347
If a piece of software advertised itself as a development platform that essentially worked the same way mods do in practice, I think out could still be very popular and a lot of people would feel that they've gotten their money's worth. So, by extension, I think if a game fulfills the same thing it's okay to take it into consideration when evaluating the software as a whole.
The important thing is to not let yourself say that the game is good because it is modable. I might think that Skyrim as a software package is worth $60 because it has a $30 game and a $30 dollar modding platform, but they doesn't mean I think Skyrim the game is good enough to justify $60.
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113364 No.16784383
If you’re enjoying yourself, that’s really all that matters. Still, I usually won’t buy a product unless the core game interests me enough.
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000000 No.16784593
>>16784053
>Should the existence of mods that vastly improve on a shit base game be enough to recommend an anon pirate and play said game?
Yes, absolutely: the goal is entertainment, the way you get there isn't too important.
Obvious exceptions to be made if the mod installation is a massive pain and similar stuff.
>why are most of the XCOM 2 modders adamantly determined to announce that they dislike pirates and have to dedicate at least two passive aggressive sentences about how assblasted they are by pirates?
For some reason, modding is extremely attractive to narcissists: a quick look at the Minecraft, Skyrim and Fallout mod communities will confirm that.
For those people, power over others is as important as oxygen, so they'll go to great lenghts to challenge the one guy that dislikes them even if it means annoying thousands and thousands of fans.
Unsurprisingly, this is basically the same exact behaviour of internet jannies on any site ever, so you often have modders and jannies allying together to be as shit as humanely possible (and that's how Nexusmods came to be).
>>16784246
Modded STALKER is not exactly the easiest game to get into, Vanilla STALKER has enough bugs to scare off anyone that's not a masochist.
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45562f No.16784604
>>16784053
A mod can do a lot of things to a game ranging from almost nothing to completely changing it from the ground up, so I'd say a mod can make a game worth playing depending on how much that mod does to the actual game.
>On a side side note, why are most of the XCOM 2 modders adamantly determined to announce that they dislike pirates and have to dedicate at least two passive aggressive sentences about how assblasted they are by pirates? Is this because of Workshop?
It is definitely rooted in shitty moralfaggotry but it does have a few actual justifications.
It's an attempt at helping the developers and giving them an incentive to work with modders more (but it's kind of stupid considering Firaxis knows they can't really succeed without their modding scene and that's exactly why they've worked very closely with it for XCOM2)
It's also something you'll see a lot everywhere in software development, sometimes it is a more justified than here but usually not (best example is usually emulation development where not being publicly against piracy can actually land your project in the dumpster).
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40f0cd No.16784617
>>16784127
Yeah i can agree with this. Vanilla STALKER is alright, the environments are top notch but the gameplay can definitely be given some polish into it. Since the base gunplay are very floaty what i mean this is that sometimes your enemies might not always give a proper response or damage feedback, thus making as if you're doing jackshit damage to them, the single-player is linear, non-existant roleplay despite being marketed as such, and the areas that you explore are very underused. So basically, some of it's mechanics are mediocre when compared to the excellent parts. But the game is more than the sum of it's parts.
Like you said, people must've seen this game as a some sort of unpolished gem. A rough game, but you can see everything that's great about it when you've played it long enough. Then they set out to make their experience greater, better than what the devs originally made, and before long finally fine-tuning every single mechanic into their liking. And that's just for the gameplay part, many others are about adding cut content, other gameplay modes, or overhauled graphics. With the right mods, you can really turn a game into another game entirely, and that's the best thing about mods.
>tl;dr You can recommend a game for modding alone. Since the mod itself that you're recommending, not the base game itself.
by the way, someone should really update this, especially since Call of Chernobyl already got a 'proper' release.
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d9817f No.16784621
>>16784593
Minecraft has a lot less narcissists these days, the Redpower and Better Than Wolves devs have fucked off, and Greg of all people has mellowed out and even made his mod open source. Now the problem is that everything is on the atrocious Curseforge website and 70% of mods are clones of other, older mods that the authors insist are OC donut steels
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a90df2 No.16784622
>>16784621
Not to derail my own thread but I'm curious as to what the devs you've mentioned have done. I enjoy these stories about modders showing how petty they can get like that one Graf Zahl fiasco with the cacowards and lillith.
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a90df2 No.16784624
fuck replied too soon
>>16784617
What does Call of Chernobyl add? I haven't been following much on Stalker mods. AMK arsenal was a lot of fun though.
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697788 No.16784690
>>16784593
Maybe I just got lucky but I didn't have anymore issues with STALKER than I would any other game. I had one crash and outside of that all I dealt with was the occasional item falling through the world.
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a0db9e No.16784694
>>16784690
Same. I played vanilla SoC v1.0000 cracked at release back in spring 2007 and had no major bugs. There were things like one of Duty vets casually walking into an anomaly while patrolling the southern outskirts of Bar and an heroing as a result (got his OTz-14 rechambered for 5.45 that I couldn't buy from Sidorovich because the basement kike charged a lot for it) but nothing Besthesda-tier ridiculous or gamebreaking.
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000000 No.16784712
>>16784690
There's like a dozen kinds of crashes and locks fixed by the ZRP, and looking at some of them it looks like you got fairly lucky.
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154990 No.16784739
If there is an enjoyable configuration of the game you would recommend someone play, then yes.
If you think anything other than this, you're a fucking idiot.
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b0acaf No.16784745
>>16784624
Call of Chernobyl is an engine port.
The devs took all the maps from stalkan games and put them together in a sandbox with rudimentary story progression.
Its the defacto new base for modders since its on an updated XRAY engine and has hooks for literally everything. The new hotness right now is Anomaly mod which is Misery derived but fully customizable.
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a90df2 No.16785625
Is there a way to pirate workshop collections that doesn't involve copy pasting each individual mod's link?
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ddc109 No.16785645
>Should mods be reason enough to recommend a game?
Absolutely, but not to buy it, if the developers don't deserve the money don't give it to them.
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b4f509 No.16785786
>>16784622
Redpower was made by Eloraam, I can't actually remember exactly what >she did wrong, but I know that a lot people hated >her guts. Regardless it was a popular mod and included in a lot of modpacks, so when >she decided to give up on minecraft modding to make >her own game that never went anywhere, people were mad especially since the source code was never released, not even privately for some other modder to maintain, and it was a very unique mod so now you have to use several clones made by different people in order to emulate all of it's features.
BetterThanWolves is a really old mod, which started around beta 1.4 when people were getting tired of official updates being small, useless shit instead of major gameplay developments. BTW was a major gameplay changing mod adding mechanical power systems, aqueducts, more realistic and challenging survival mechanics etc. It used to be compatible with most other mods just fine, but as the new modloader Forge was being made, FlowerChild (the BTW dev) was really upset about it for some reason and deliberately made his mod incompatible with Forge as an act of protest. Forge was much better than the old modloader and so there ended up being less and less mods you could use alongside BTW. Not satisfied with this, FlowerChild decided to make it incompatible with even the old modloader that nobody else developed for any more, deleted all old versions of the mod, and forced people to go through his 'curation' if they wanted to make a mod compatible with BTW or an addon for it. If you take a look at his personal forum for the mod, FlowerChild is the textbook definition of a power tripping internet moderator, so if you jump through all the hoops of making a minecraft mod without any modloader helping you just to make something work with BTW, there's a good chance that FlowerChild might be in a bad mood and deny you from sharing it. He has repeatedly tried to DMCA people who share their addons on other websites too, even if it's just rehosting ones that are already approved. He has stopped developing it at this point, and there is actually a complete clone that is compatible with modern Minecraft versions as well as Forge.
Greg is pure German engineered autism. His mod Gregtech was an addon for Industrialcraft, and at first all it did was add a lightning rod, which was a commonly denied request for IC. In the next Minecraft version it was completely overhauled and actually became a proper addon, adding lots of machines, tools and materials. However the mod started being really controlling to the point where it's almost malware. Technic was a highly popular modpack at the time, but if Gregtech detected that you were using it in with the Technic pack it wouldn't let the game launch. In the next update Gregtech started changing recipes from vanilla Minecraft and from other mods, and it was included in the new most popular modpack, FTB, which left huge amounts of the playerbase confused and angry at why everything is suddenly so expensive. In the next Minecraft version, Greg now changed the regular wood recipe from giving 4 planks down to 2. Another mod developer that makes Tinker's Construct, a completely unrelated but highly popular mod, decided that this would ruin the balance of his mod so now TiCon forces the wood recipe back to normal. The next update of Gregtech crashed the game if installed with TiCon. Everyone was mad, at this point FTB didn't have a modpack released for this version and now the people crying for Gregtech's removal were much louder. Other mod developers decided to join in the shitflinging, the Dartcraft mod also circumvented the wood recipe change, and Minefactory Reloaded added some extra tags to every block and item in the game that would triple your load times when installed with Gregtech. I think at this point Greg got tired of the drama and started to turn around, the next update only added to Gregtech itself and didn't touch any more vanilla or other mod recipes, the one after was a total rework that now advertised itself as a total conversion, so people knew what they were getting into, and it became open source and independent of Industrialcraft in the next update. Ironically, by this point the vast majority of modpacks all revolve around massive changes to recipes from vanilla and all the mods included to make them harder or more co-dependent, even the FTB and Technic packs that decried Greg for doing the same in the past. Greg is going the way of Eloraam and decided that he will quit modding for his own game soon, but he at least has the courtesy to leave his mod open source.
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a90df2 No.16785845
>>16785786
Jesus Christ how petty are these people?
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000000 No.16785867
>>16785845
Minecraft's audience is a weird mixture of turbo autists and petty children, which somehow creates this situation. Remember the big botnet specifically made for ddosing Minecraft servers that got busted a while ago?
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4eafc1 No.16785875
If a game can't stand on its own, but it can be modded substantially until it is a great game, then the game can only be recommended alongside those mods.
If a game can stand on its own, and mods add to it, then it should be suggested on its own, before mods are added for a second or third playthrough.
If a game absolutely requires mods to be passable in any way, then by no means should it be recommended except if those mods create a game that cannot be otherwise replicated.
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928820 No.16788370
Cities Skylines, Euro Truck Simulator 2, American Truck Simulator and Assetto Corsa are games I wouldn't even touch without mods.
(Despite the SCS devs seemingly going out of their way to break every fucking mod with each minor update in ETS2 and ATS)
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dd093d No.16795881
>>16784053
>The example I have in mind is XCOM 2.
yes
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a28973 No.16795893
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8e01d8 No.16795928
What you should do is become a mod author, release a mod that everyone likes, then piss everyone off by removing your mod until Hillary becomes president.
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7c448b No.16795961
I think some mods are worth recommending for the mod itself, and not the game underneath. For instance, I agree with the common sentiment here that Skyrim is unsalvageable as a full game. But, there are still some neat dungeon and quest mods that are potentially worth exploring, even if the underlying game is still shit.
>>16785845
The MC modding community is insane, even for modding communities. Anon didn't even get into the permissions bullshit or all the shit the FTB crew did.
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b22dbb No.16795978
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>Should mods be reason enough to recommend a game?
Not unless they're a Total Conversion, I'd never tell you to play Skyrim because it's boring as fuck due to the RNG loot, level scaling and awful progression system and 96% of the time it treats you like a fucking infant, but I'd recommend a playtrough of Enderal.
A good base game can be improved with addon mods, you can't polish a turd unless you transform it into something else entirely
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d8de46 No.16796213
>>16795978
>Not unless they're a Total Conversion, I'd never tell you to play Skyrim because it's boring as fuck due to the RNG loot, level scaling and awful progression system and 96% of the time it treats you like a fucking infant, but I'd recommend a playtrough of Enderal.
eh, that's just game systems tho and in theory easy to fix (still looking for mods so I don't have to go with bethesda's hamfisted RPG stuff for a vr runthrough).
take battlefront for example, everything's great except the gameplay. even a simple "mod" like proper team balancing would make a big difference that'd improve the game as a whole.
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fd6c2f No.16796227
No, the game will be shit regardless of how many mods you smear over it, and if you need a complete overhaul mod to make the game somewhat enjoyable then the game is shit.
When most people say doom is good they mean mods, when most people talk about stalker its always the mods, when people talk about goldsource/source its the mods, many valve games are mods that were ate up by gave n spat out at full price, mods are good, games are good, however if a game requires a mod to make it suck less dicks then it is not a good game, telling people to only play it with mods is no different than those fags that claim a game gets good 50 hours in near the end
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7c448b No.16796230
>>16796227
You act like bad things can never be improved into being good things. If a chair has a broken leg, it's a shitty chair, but modifying it with a new leg makes it perfectly usable. If a game has the right modding capabilities, then most or all of its flaws can be potentially fixed. The vanilla game may not be worth playing, but that doesn't mean a modded version can't be. It's like buying a fixer-upper house. It's shit when you get it, but you can make your own improvements until it's something you like.
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8e7db7 No.16796246
>>16796230
>but modifying it with a new leg makes it perfectly usable.
Consider this. You could fix your shitty chair or buy a new great chair. Sure, there's debate there. Now imagine that you can get a great new chair for free, which is the case with chair piracy. Whether you go to The Sitters Bay or to your private secret club of Chair Shares, why would you bother fixing your shitty old chair which is probably gonna break down again and at best not be that comfortable when you could have a fancy neato new fucking chair, for free?
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d8de46 No.16796250
>>16796246
>>16796230
>chair analogy
if skyrim is so shit even with mods (since a mod can never improve a shit game unless it's a TC, basically turning into a new game), where's the game that's not skyrim that's a) better out of the box and b) gives me the same options on top of it?
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8e7db7 No.16796266
>>16796250
One, you're asking for an impossible feat - a good open world game.
>a) better out of the box
Depends on what you want most.
Story? Any of the Witcher games, preferably the earlier ones.
Setting? Kingdom Come: Deliverance should do.
Fucking about in a fun engine and seeing how the world reacts? Breath of the Wild does that better than any game I can think of.
None are good but all do these elements far better than Skyrim ever could. BotW is probably the best of these, it's at least worth an emulation.
Hell, even Ubishit like Watch Dogs can be more fun to fuck about in for an hour or two than Skyrim is.
>b) gives me the same options on top of it?
What the fuck does this even mean? Same options for moddability? Stalker and any Valve game, probably. At least Valve mods ARE mostly total map remakes at a minimum. And hell, BotW is heavily moddable too if you're into shit Discord memes (and isn't that the majority of Skyrim mods anyway)?
And if you're really retardedly autistic about the Elder Scrolls lore or the franchise itself for whatever fucking reason, why not try any other Elder Scrolls game? Morrowind and Oblivion have varying levels of being "modernized" towards Skyrim, and have numerous mods for them, and if you want something different from all of them and better, there's Daggerfall which is much more interesting to try after having played either TES III, IV or V.
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7c448b No.16796271
>>16796246
Because maybe your old broken chair provides some kind of unique sitting experience that other chairs don't quite replicate. Or maybe there's an aftermarket seat cushion that's really good, but only fits on your old chair and not on new ones. Maybe that cushion makes your old chair even better than a new one.
I'm not saying that every shitty game can be totally fixed with mods. I'm just saying that's it's not utterly impossible for a shitty game to provide a fun, unique experience through mods.
>>16796250
Morrowind is a better game, has many more years of modding on it, and provides much of the same modding options, unless you really want Skyrim's floaty combat or porn mods.
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dd093d No.16796548
>>16796266
congrats, you have just prooven his point:
you had to use witcher+kingdom Come+ Stalker and valve game to compensate
that's really far from "juts get another great chair" ²²²
and even if you did not; your 1st sentence is:
>One, you're asking for an impossible feat - a good open world game
isn't that what mods aim to be? fix a mediocre game?
adding content, story, revamping progression system etc to the point were there is no point in playing vanilla skyrim when you played with forstfall mod, SkyReand/or ERSO and many other (removed?) mods that fix and improve a defective product.
²²²and btw your contradict yourself:
>"just get a great chair"
<"how or were are they"
>"well they don't exist, they are an impossible feat"
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b22dbb No.16796617
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16796227
>When most people say doom is good they mean mods, when most people talk about stalker its always the mods, when people talk about goldsource/source its the mods, many valve games are mods that were ate up by gave n spat out at full price, mods are good, games are good, however if a game requires a mod to make it suck less dicks then it is not a good game, telling people to only play it with mods
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b22dbb No.16796621
>Godawful analogies
>X games that were praised for their base game are only goodwith mods
>There are no good open world games
I see the cuckchan retards who joined 8chan in late 2015 and shat up the place have come to fedcoon
Guess I'm off to better pastures
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cbf86d No.16796638
imo Mods should only be an encouragement to replay a game you've already played and enjoyed in vanilla mode. Mods can only be as good as the game's engine. And it's been shown that even with all the extensive modding and waifus and billions of pixels worth of new content, Skyrim still can't hold the attention of most people for very long.
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1e4ff7 No.16796705
>>16784745
Does that work with Arsenal Overhaul?
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46742e No.16796779
>>16796621
Provide some examples, your post has no substance whatsoever.
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877e0f No.16796964
>>16796548
>adding content, story, revamping progression system etc
The thing here is that the structure of the chair itself is fucked. TES is a 3D Ultima without any content, it's empty. And even if it had content the game is designed around nothing beyond fetch quests and uninspired dungen exploration for loot with level scaling, it's a 3D simulation RPG that sucks ass at actually simulating anything, the game is designed around bullshot marketing features with no depth, and mods can't that, it can't make an empty sandbox fun, there nothing to do in the sandbox beyond do the same fetch quests and find loot.
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877e0f No.16796966
>>16796964
Full conversions can try at least, Gothic fangames like Enderal are at least an effort.
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d532b4 No.16797708
>>16795978
Does Enderal fix the shit combat and dungeons of vanilla Skyrim?
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563bac No.16797735
If a game is bad without mods it is a pirate
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654fcd No.16797743
Wait the xcom mod community is being autistic? Whats the drama with the finsl modpack? Will it be back?
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877e0f No.16797754
>>16797708
I don't think anything can fix the dungeons in any TES game, there's a couple of dungeon replacement mods and a Mystery Dungeon-kind-of mod for Skyrim but that doesn't incentivize you to actually explore said dungeons, usually a compelling scenario does that. Skyrim Ai mods do exist to make the enemies less braindead though surprisingly enough.
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2f07e8 No.16797768
>>16797708
Sadly no, although those in Enderal are generally designed fairly well.
What really makes Enderal shine is the story, though.
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b22dbb No.16797796
>>16797708
The dungeins are better, combat is still fucked however.
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877e0f No.16797802
>>16797796
The only way the combat wouldn't be fucked is by playing a different video game that isn't shit, people just can't be assed to make a combat sim with functioning combat with a competent ai when they can just dump a sandbox with multiplayer on your head for more profit.
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7ce2bc No.16797844
>>16785786
A lot of modders are such faggots, but I think at least some blame comes from dealing with the most retarded
of users as what you find on the mc forum and curseforge forum.
I think eloraam quit for good when people not only found out that >she was a tranny, but also eloraam's
>lesbian gf was also a tranny which eloraam may not have known.
Gregtech was the best thing to happen to minecraft and nobody can convince me otherwise.
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b22dbb No.16797856
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16797802
>people just can't be assed to make a combat sim with functioning combat with a competent ai when they can just dump a sandbox with multiplayer on your head for more profit
Don't remind me, I get depressed everytime
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5b3b9d No.16797857
>>16784053
IMO, if a game is so shit that needs mods, then it should be
>paid
for accordingly, 0$-15$
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b22dbb No.16797859
>>16797857
It's not like I pay for games before pirating anyway.
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3b9fce No.16802442
>>16784053
Yes, my reasoning is as follows.
Some games have such versatile and good toolsets that making mods is actually pretty simple and the mod can be as complex as you want it to be.
Neverwinter Nights has one of the biggest modding communities out there and that has resulted in the game's lifespan continuing into this day with the enhanced edition coming out not long ago to future-proof the game with quality of life upgrades. The main campaign of that game is fucking terrible generic garbage. The premium modules are all pretty good, but the bulk of the game is user-content. There are hundreds of campaigns and modifications to the system that makes it rich and engaging because the system is built to run almost any scenario in dungeons and dragons. In that sense it's bioware's greatest roleplaying achievement because their stories are almost always generic as hell so they gave players the tools to make the kinds of fantasy games they want to play.
Mount and Blade: Warband is another title kept alive by its mods because god fucking knows when we're getting that sequel. There are a ton of really well made mods and it can manage everything from Game of Thrones to Lord of the Rings to Star Wars.
Jagged Alliance 2's 1.3 mod doesn't change the fundamental game, but puts in tons of little quality of life improvements into the game pretty seamlessly. The biggest hiccup of vanilla JA2 is the inventory system, this fixes almost all of it and makes for a much more sensible experience. It also put TONS of options into the game that weren't necessary to beat vanilla but give you more branching paths for gameplay. A good example is silencers and suppressors for rifles which you can pair with subsonic ammo to dampen your rifle noise. In vanilla you could only silence pistols and SMGs which don't do enough damage in late game to use stealth successfully. It also put some rudimentary crafting elements into it which I love. I've beaten Ja2 vanilla and modded and I like both but modded is probably my favorite turn-based game ever made simply because there are over a hundred guns and at least 10 of them are AK-47 variants.
KOTOR 2 isn't a bad game but suffers from being somewhat shallow in strange areas, due to cut content. Modders recently managed to mod large chunks of cut story, dialogue, and quests back into the game and now it FAR surpasses the story told by KOTOR 1. Which is good, because it's an identical gameplay system, that wasn't the issue with 2. Now it's probably my favorite Star Wars game.
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58a814 No.16802487
No one thinks about this, but its generally a bad idea to rely on mods in an abstract sense.
Legally, mods are considered derivative work that are given for free because it helps its case with fair use (i.e noncommercial use). It, along with fanfiction, fanart, etc, are considered copyright infringement in the strictest senses. Hence why Blizzard can take down fanworks like Overwatch porn if they don't like it. It's not so much that they can('t) succeed in snuffing it out entirely, but more so that it's something they are able to do. Note that fair use in the US, is a defense applied after one has been sued, not a clause to prevent one from being sued, and not every country has this fair use in their copyright law.
The ones who own the copyright to a mod, in most cases, is assumed to be the author of the original work (the company) even though the modder is the one who put in the time and effort into creating the mod. Most companies don't sue mod authors because it's a good way to shit up relations with fans. But everyone's more likely to come across their platform conforming to DMCA than going to court, and things then are much more silent.
The 90s to 2000s, mods were in a legal grey zone and helped supplement the game with content. The game changer that not everyone realizes, because Blizzard didn't like missing out on fat LoL / DOTA money from a WC map, is that EULAs typically state who owns the rights to a work. E.G the companies have the legal right to distribute (and takedown) your work or user mods; they also have the right to sell and make use of your designs for their commercial projects.
So if you're going to make a mod, it's actually a massive disservice to yourself, to invest your own free time on something you have limited rights to. When instead, you could've invested the same time into your own game in some free game engine.
>a bad game and I'm going to fix it!
You are either incentivizing people, or doing yourself, working on a game they / you otherwise may not like, to the benefit of a commercial entity. I.E your time investment and designs, their assets or even money, while it may not be as blatant as paid Skyrim mods on the Steam Workshop.
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58a814 No.16802490
>>16802487
Before anyone tells me: LOL EULA doesn't hold up in court. Note that Fair Use has lost against EULA, and people have actually been sued by companies over violating EULA.
http://archive.is/JuS4
http://archive.is/97lpG
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308ab4 No.16802491
No if anything that should be treated like a technical issue that needs extra work to fix like anything else. All of the TES or the Fall Out Series suffers from this. and should be rated according to this. The base game is garbage for all of them. Rate based off of the base game then scale it up involving mods. Becasue The Elder Scrolls post Daggerfall is fucking cancer. Same with games that need fixes or mods to make them better. If they need a patch to be good that should be a huge minus on the base game. Wizardry is one such game as well.
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308ab4 No.16802505
>>16802490
Laws are helpful but really it depends on the lawyer and how unlucky you are with the judge. So honestly I've just based it on how garbage or good the lawyer in question is. And in most cases corperate lawyers are better. Unless the lawyer is in an unwinnable with laws that are super well known umong the rest of the court. So unless you bought a good lawyer or you personally know better than the lawyer and are able to inform [and the lawyer isn't a fucktard]. You might win. Otherwise give up or pay premium
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58c2a5 No.16802512
>>16802490
>As a result of the more recent Ninth Circuit decision, we're left with conflicting interpretations of how far a EULA can reach and what effect an overly–restrictive one can have on our fair use rights. Until the Supreme Court decides to step in and lay down the law, all we're left with is conflicting interpretations and bad software licenses.
So it hasn't been decided with any finality yet, unless something more recent's happened.
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f05e50 No.16802515
>>16784257
>AMC
for some reason my retarded ass cant find this.
What does it stand for? You got a link?
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b39924 No.16802522
>>16797754
there are also some lightning mods that turn that shit into proper caves where you have to carry a torch around to even see something.
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000000 No.16802530
If you judge the modded game to be good, you can and should recommend playing it (but not buying it). Of course you'd have to recommend the game along with a complete mod list that makes the game fun. Don't recommend buying a work where the money doesn't flow towards the people who made it good.
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ca99c5 No.16802574
>>16802515
Search for "The AMC TC Eduke". I haven't played it but I plan to once I'm done with my Going Down playthrough.
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f05e50 No.16802589
>>16802574
thanks anon. For some reason i thought it was an XCOM mod, but this looks neat.
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fd6c2f No.16802643
>>16796230
they cant. just because you shovel hundreds of mods into skyrim or fallout 3/NV doesnt suddenly make them good games, modding cant fix a game that is fundamentally shit and boring, they try the same thing with stalker, HL2 and other mediocre games that would be nothing without their mods, a game should be good without mods and even better with them, not be a turd that becomes better with the polished turd mod™ by pretentious "give me credit plz" communist
>>16796617
nice kiketube link faggot
>>16796621
right, like all those faggots that suddenly love doom even played the games at all nevermind the faggy sourceports or brootal doom, when people praise doom its a sourceport at best, some faggy overhaul mod that changes everything at worst, these people wont play doom on DOS. name ONE single good open world game, i'll wait. and if you dont like what you see why are you still here? why do you just come in to say you hate something because you hate it then leave without adding to the discussion?
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877e0f No.16803277
>>16802643
*communist that begs for donations
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