/v/ - Video Games

>>16783082

I thought it was intentional since it's someone's writings, just like in my literature.

>modern VR is trash

It's very immersive, the fact that you even have experience with porn games is a tell-tale sign that I shouldn't really care much what you've got to say on the matter. Not trying to stir shit or anything but modern VR is fine.

>>16783024

No, because a main draw of MMOs is dressing up your character, and that doesn't work as well in first person perspective.

>>16783093

Doesn't stop people in VRchat from sitting in front of a mirror like Narcissus while they discord chat for some reason. I'm going to grab a photo, I know they're doing it now.

I couldn't imagine having some sweaty ass thing on my face for long before it became more distracting than immersive and MMOs aren't the kind of things you pick up for a few and moveon, you got that stank thing on your head for hours on end. On top of that, I have no idea how you could find MMOs immersive anyway, the majority of them just have all the same progression hooks unless you're talking something wacky like Wurm.

>>16783093

Tf2 begs to differ.

>>16783082

>full dive VR like The Matrix or Sword Art Online

How many non-porn games would there be for such a system, 2?

>>16783105

ratio of 10 to 100. Lots of shitty ones, though, but people can fuck anything.

>>16783103

>The entire draw to a VR MMO, should it have good gameplay, would essentially be your avatar.

Hell, that's the entire draw of a few non-VR MMOs out right now, regardless of how good or bad the gameplay is. Off the top of my head, games like PSO2, Blade and Soul, Black Desert, ect. sell themselves on waifu creation. In PSO2 in particular, you'll see entire lobbies full of people just sitting around doing nothing while there's shit like a limited time event going on. Tons of people only log onto the game to make their nearly naked, anorexic, loli, space elf sit like a statue while an enemy fleet is attacking.

>>16783103

I remember watching Manly Tears play this a year ago. It came down to 2 things

1)People looking a themselves in the mirror (wtf are you doing nigga?)

2)Lonely virgins gathered around a girl in the corner and worshiping her every word.

>>16783134

>Lonely virgins gathered around a girl in the corner

You mean a girl (male)

MMOs are dead. MMOs were only popular because of the wow factor of being able to play a game with a ton of people online at the same time. It as something new, the internet wasn't that connected yet. Now, everything is overly connected to the point people want to get away from it. Everywhere you go it's social this, connect this, etc. And to have an MMO shoving being connected and social in your face isn't wanted anymore.

People used to play MMOs to talk to people, be social, and have something to do with the people you were being social with. Today, there are so many ways to be social, and everything on the internet is very well connected. The novelty is gone, MMOs are like instant messenger services. They were cool at the time because no one was ever used to sending real-time text messages to other people. People weren't used to playing games over the internet when MMOs were big. And MMOs showed up giving you a shit ton of people to play games online with.

Now every fucking game has online. It's not special. There are tons of shitty mobile games that have multiplayer.

VR has nothing to do with MMORPGs being revived. They are dead, they always will be. Virtual world sandboxes like VRChat will end up just like SL, where people want to be vain and look at attractive as possible. In SL, you have people who just want to look good to fuck. In VRChat you have people looking at themselves in a mirror pretending to be what they see. Sansar is VR SecondLife and it's dead because there's no sex.

MMOs are the first experience kind of thing. Almost everyone has experienced online gaming at this point. The novelty is gone, you might get a few unicorns that show up and do somewhat well, but they'll never be like the big MMOs of the past.

>>16783024

VR is dead.

>>16783082

.hack//IMOQ was plain old Bandai, but yeah, same company now. You want some real fuckups from the game, look at that wannabe comedian, Nuke's, "jokes" in the English version (granted, the original jokes were Japanese wordplay, but the English "replacements" you can't even tell it's meant as an attempt at humor, albeit of the admittedly shitty sort). But yeah, the western branches, or at least whoever they whore out to, can be pretty fucking lazy when they pick up a game they don't particularly have interest in doing well. Gagharv trilogy of The Legend of Heroes especially so.

Though, on the other hand, one could also attribute Blackrose's email to a typo her player made, it being a meta series and all. One would have to double check the Japanese script to find out, I suppose.

No.

Modern MMOs are bad by design. Running one without some kind of ongoing monetization model is financial suicide, and ongoing monetization models are hard to fit into the kind of open-ended gameplay that people like you want.

Immersion comes from writing meant to draw you into the story and works best when it is written from a perspective of reporting on the events in the story

This however

Comes directly at odds with modern mmo design that must make you aware of the cycles to properly use your monetization option (in this case, consumers) While you can be immersive, yet still have some level of self awareness, old runescape was pretty good at this. It is potentially detrimental to the ability to create a cohesive and believable game world.

>>16783105

>>16783106

The problem is that you have to piss, shit and eat in real life, so you'll always have to log out here and there. But I think people would inevitably come up with mechanisms to mitigate that.

>>16783561

>But I think people would inevitably come up with mechanisms to mitigate that.

Yes, it's called poopsocks and piss jars.

>>16783561

It's called a Texas catheter, and you won't like it at all.

>>16783082

>If you mean, full dive VR like The Matrix or Sword Art Online, that's going to be a game changer until normalfags complain that having to block attacks and use actual fighting techniques is too hard and the enemies are dumbed down to game journalist levels.

If the games are still easy as fuck, empty as hell, lazily made and shitty then in full dive you'll just be god in a hollow empty world full of gamey design. It doesn't matter how good the tech is if the games are still shit and game developers are still idiots. Full dive VR would go the same way as modern VR, because making those types of games wouldn't be profitable.

>Modern VR is trash for any game that isn't a simulator or porn.

The more I see shit like HL1 VR, CS:GO VR and people's reactions to actually playing a decent VR game that isn't low budget indie trash. The more I start to think this is just echo chamber non-sense. I've actually got to try someone else's VR headset and it was pretty mind blowing. The potential is there it just never will be realized.

Modern VR has hurdles such as people needing to adjust to the motion sickness, lack of games and the steep price. However, that doesn't mean the tech is bad at all. Sure it has jarring weirdness like being able to put your hand through NPCs or being blocked by something with no real world resistance from it. However, modern games also have their quirks and oddities. It's just everyone is use to them. In terms of immersion, just by peoples reactions and the fact it's so real to the brain it causes motion sickness at first it's obviously a massive step up from immersion we have today. However, the tech will never see it's full potential anytime soon because the game industry is in a state of complete stagnation. Aside from devs at Valve and Facebook trying to stroke their own ego, and indieshitters making the modern equivalent of flash games, absolutely nobody will touch VR because it can't effortlessly print money as asset flipping FIFA for the 100th year in a row.

VR is a lot like the immersive sim genre in the 90s-early 00s. Making a game for it takes a shit load of time, money, and talent. It basically has to absolutely smash sales to make any sort of return, which is unlikely to happen because the player base needs to make a huge investment just to play your game (a beefy computer in those days). There's only a handful of immersive sims spanning 30 years and the same is going to happen to VR, which is why I'm personally never going to buy one.

>>16785670

The way I see it, from the video, at least for one of my goals is that this is one step closer to actual simulation of the real thing yea. I think that if you were to master gun combat in one of these things, you could probably get to 30% to actual gun combat, compared to like 5% from non VR shooters. Meaning that such a simulation probably could cut off some time from real life training. I think at least, just some speculation. As you get used to the real physics and dynamics of the guns, and the meta around the combat. Having read "the talent code" and how the brain kinda works with learning, I would say it is so. Tho only visual obviously. None of the senses would be tied and engaged as you wield faglike controllers.

That is at least one of the reasons I think it may be a hit like you do. Great post by the way. But I have seen some videos of this thing as well and I too am perplexed. Many reactions from many people seem to make it so that it is a big deal.

But what you may not know yet, or at least ignore is that the hardware has not found a stable point yet, in terms of generations. The viewing angle for example has gone up from like 100 degrees, to the index which has 170 degrees, but things like the Pimax 5K+ have 200 degrees, and in each step, people remarked how it was much more superior than the last.

This is the entire reason why many people may not wanna buy just yet. It hasnt stabilized yet. The tech is too expensive and gets obsolete too fast. I think that the few people who are aware of it all and are interested may be thinking the same as me. "maybe wait one or two gens and shit will be cheaper and the best improvements will be standard"

That sweet tipping point, where additional money only buys you fluff, and where with moderate amount of money you can get 90% of all the features, the important ones, with no luxury is what in my mind at least I consider stable. Cars are like that too. A mediocre amount of money will get you 90% of what you expect in cars. And any additional dollar beyond that gives you incrementally less amount of "car". When that happens, it will explode. Well its just one view, and a rough estimation. Maybe it will explode or not explode under different circumstances, you can never tell really.

>>16783024

I'm tempted to make a cynical answer, but you're right. It will bring immersion back.

>>16785735

I wonder if the military would be interested in something like this. I think that if you actually made a vibrating rifle, and fixed those shuddering issues as you remarked, that estimate of 30% to real life combat could be achieved, maybe even as high as 40%. And that would mean more efficient training, for lower costs, faster time even. More diverse scenarios too. Some of these headsets seem to have "professional" uses of which I dont know who the fuck uses them, but does the military do that too I wonder?

But imagine that, a vr rifle that has all the loading, usage things that a normal rifle has, so that you get the touch feeling. Oh boy. That would truly be great.

>>16785740

performance on pc's has somewhat stabilized, sure you get sometimes of these ultra high end builds with multiple cards and whatnot. But most of the features, graphically wise, work fine on mediocre/medium level pc's. My own is like 2 years old and it still runs everything on high. A card like the regular 980 still is good enough for now. Thats because this platform is relatively stable. But since there is no market for these things, and since there is little agreement what the standards should be, hardware developers are making wildly different in performance vr headsets. Its great that they have the same kind of standard for compatibility tho, on the steam platform for example. but thats really the only thing they have agreed upon.

Its quite a mess. and I think that we wont find stability for at least a few years in this arena. At least not the level of stability that would make it a consumer boom in this category.

>>16783024

Immersion comes from quality game design, not the perspective or peripherals used.

>>16785750

You get immersion from a book if that is what you meant, but video games can be a different kind of immersion. Based upon the senses. And better more developed tech to access to senses means better immersion. I know the kind of immersion what you mean tho, the stalker franchise still is with me till this day in my dreams.

>>16785744

I've heard from a lot of people state that VR is perfect for driving and flying simulators so I wouldn't be suprised if the military already apply that tech for training for aircraft.

I know the new F-35 is supposed to have a sort of VR headseat beacuse you can't see out of the back of the cockpit so they have to use VR with camera's to get a picture out the back of the aircraft. Thinking about that a VR overlay ontop of a monitor like they have in jetfighters or gunships would be amazing.

>>16785754

>I've heard from a lot of people state that VR is perfect for driving and flying simulators so I wouldn't be suprised if the military already apply that tech for training for aircraft.

I wonder if that has to due with the motion sickness. I wonder if this more has to due with people just being use to the motion sickness vehicles produce, and likewise, would have to just get use to motion sickness from running around in VR.

>>16785754

haha, that is some good insight and you may be right. Things that are more visually oriented will get closer to that real life: video game closeness. The games you mentioned may get close to as much as 80%, tho you cannot replicate the pressure, the vibrations and the g forces. There are race car drivers who used to feel all the gears, movements and hear all the sounds in their car, from the gas pedal, to its resistance, its ease, to the many components of the car. When I drive my car I try to remember all the little things, so that I can estimate when something is broken, and more often than not I am correct. Tho my aim is just fixing a car, nor racing with it. But many racecar drivers do the same and have a good feeling when their car may break down.

But yea, developing the meta around it. Haha, I read a book called "the talent code" and it describes the learning process of it all. I think there are many other great books that describe what we seek even more closely, some neuro science. If you truly cared for it you could probably investigate how to replicate those things closer. Tho I was only reading these things in passing.

>>16785756

and to add: that is how intuiting develops in those professions, its all of these senses at times making very specific subconscious memories. So that if there is a certain pressure, like in a house burning, a fireman may get an intuiting that a house may implode.

And for fighter jets it may be somewhat similar. It is very hard to tell really. For a race car driver as well. Tho his focus would be probably on multitasking.

But to think that you wont be getting closer to that real life: virtual world closeness is stupid. You do get closer. So that is probably a good thing for now. Its just that the experiences you make will not truly be equal to real life. And thus you must not confuse them with real life still. One has to remember that real life has a great deal of senses and experiences. But that one can take a great hint, from a great technology to use with real life, I would say.

>>16785755

The issue is a lot of people can't translate the sense of motion from moving on foot in VR compared to the feeling of being seated in a moving vehicle. The guy in the above posts has a good point about why, in a jet or car you only really get G-forces compared to movement on foot which invloves a lot more forces on the body making it harder to trick the brain to avoid motion sickness with some users

>>16785761

I was going of a video in the VR thread basically saying that after a while people get use to it. I just figured it'd be similar to car sickness (which I get if I'm not looking at the road for some reason). I suppose it depends on the person.

>>16785764

is motion sickness actually a problem in selling these things? Has anyone tried to compile some data as to what kind of person gets motion sickness? Like with questionnaires? Maybe get a small sample group and test them on different games and mechanics to see what triggers it? Such a thing would probably not cost a lot and since many are eager to push this thing, wouldnt it make sense to test it out?

>>16785765

I suspect all the research data is private since I doubt the VR companies want to help their competitors any. Considering they came up with all sorts of weird ways to move around to combat it. It's a problem. Here's that vid I was talking about, which shows that people just get use to it over time.

It just seems like growing pains to me.

>>16785766

thats pretty cool, millions of dollars huh, maybe these things act for consumers as the vehicles do for consumer cars lol, providing some insight as to what can be achieved and how. Any other great examples how they are used? What about the army?

>>16785769

pretty cool video to explain it. Man it must be interesting to be one of the few industry heads pushing for this thing, with these many issues up and abound. If these heads are not willing to share much tho, maybe they are so convinced of its value that they think that in the future its a sure guarantee of huge profits lol.

I genuinely wonder if VR goggles would be a viable replacement for having 1000 monitors like how stock traders have.

>>16785775

realtors also use it to demo building projects? But that is really about it? There should be about a thousand different creative things to do with it.

but looking at all the specs so far…so apparently the most popular models dont rely on the pc hardware anymore? They use mobile gaming cpus from smartphones lel? Well it makes sense doesnt it, its a huge industry of smartphones, the screens are all insane, and normies are buying them up in the droves. So all of this tech is becoming cheaper. High performing mobile cpus as well.

There are so many patterns running through this industry, the viewing angles, the refresh rates, the different side effects, the specific brands, and the future expectations. No wonder nobody knows what will happen here, the only thing that some people seem to agree upon is that its significant lol

>>16785788

>drone VR

very few people use it, but it seems to work well?

but…what if…CAR VR. You have these google cars with a giant camera on top, what if you link it to a VR headset instead? maybe give one to truckers? It would reduce the dead angles?

>third person view

you already have some idea of battle displays being integrated into helmets. Why not have somekind of weird antenna like thing on your back that sticks out above you. Which you can use to peek around corners with. Or maybe have a camera into your gun for VR?

come on you niggerfags, IMAGINATION

>overlaying reality with VR

seems to be one of the goals of this thing as well doesnt it? All of these mobile cpu's. The high res screens, and battery packs. What if the eventual goal of at least one branch of this tech is real life integration. Like the smartglasses that have failed before lol.

>>16785735

>bad shuddering

to be fair it's only an issue with psvr due to the tracking (which, considering it's just a refurbished eyetoy, is pretty impressive).

>>16785744

>I wonder if the military would be interested in something like this.

military had simulators for ages, you can bet they use it in some way. outside combat for bomb defusal etc.

iirc even emergency services use it these days to learn procedures etc.

>>16785735

>bad shuddering

to be fair it's only an issue with psvr due to the tracking (which, considering it's just a refurbished eyetoy, is pretty impressive).

>>16785744

>I wonder if the military would be interested in something like this.

military had simulators for ages, you can bet they use it in some way. outside combat for bomb defusal etc.

iirc even emergency services use it these days to learn procedures etc.

>>16785777

>they think that in the future its a sure guarantee of huge profits lol.

why do you think zucc paid 2 billion dollars for oculus?

>>16785802

drones have the problem getting used to, just floating around is one of the easiest ways to make you vomit. plus usually you have aerial recon in some form anyway and even without it the scenarios where it would be helpful are pretty limited (probably too limited to warrant the expenses)

iirc there are already scopes which allow you to peak around corners, no need for a fancy VR setup

the most important thing in combat is durability and ease of use. best hardware means shit if it breaks down when you need it and is a bitch to maintain.

>Will being nauseous and wagglan for six hours straight bring back immersion?

I don't get this shit. Everyone got sick of waggling with the Wii and Kinect, why the fuck are people suddenly getting nostalgic about it? Go play Wii Sports again and tell me if that's "immersive".

>>16785829

>why do you think zucc paid 2 billion dollars for oculus?

He honestly probably did it because it's a case of tech companies mindlessly buying out smaller tech companies that start to rise. I honestly doubt he'll get a return equivalent to what he's putting in, because VR wont be profitable until it becomes affordable. Zuck's business skills come from doing shady underhanded shit, not so much smart investing choices.

>>16785870

While you're not wrong about Zuckerberg, he has thousands of people paid to crunch numbers and calculate the potential for profit. It's not like Zuck dropped 2 bil on a whim, he got experts advising him to do so. And while that doesn't always work out (Theranos is a good example of experts being fucking retarded), I think these people know that it's an uphill battle. Same as video games, they were a fad once too and now make more money annually than movies do.

>>16783024

Go play VRChat and tell us the result

>>16785870

There's nothing 'mindless' about it they want to scoop up as much talent as possible and have those employees sign NDAs and non-compete agreements to prevent them from working for their competitors. It's a smart move if you look at it from a long term perspective of preventing startups from challenging your position.

>>16785974

>It's not like Zuck dropped 2 bil on a whim

Considering all the legal hassle it brought him and complaints from shareholders over being a vanity project it may have been a whim. Of course the due diligence was done but he took the risk of his own volition.

Those thousands of financial advisors don't account for much if they're ignored.

>>16785830

Waggling is shit because it was literally used as filler; the wii and such had good uses but most of the garbage on those systems decided to make everything be done by flailing.

Motion controls aren't automatically horrible because the wii was 90% shovelware and the kinect was just a clone of terrible habits.

>throwing grenades around edges

>throwing grenades back

>leaning

>actually doing a pickup animation

Has all been done in games already with keyboard and mouse.

Next they'll show you what a great VR innovation it is to lie down in CS GO!

meant this >>16785670

>>16785670

You also got a numpad on your keyboard and a numbar.

Could use it without VR just as well.

Yeah, instead of pretending to be a girl to get free gear you'll get groomed into being a tranny. The path of progress.

>>16783136

This gets said every time this topic comes up, usually about a dozen times, and it's such a crock of shit.

MMOs are dead because there aren't any being fucking made. There haven't been for ages. It's all instanced, with the persistent open world being at best an extended tutorial. One that's optional, and one you can sometimes pay to skip entirely. Nobody talks because there is no reason to. There's nothing to encourage social interaction. You don't see the relief of stumbling across some random and making a nigger rigged squad to take out that rare you've been bashing your head against a wall trying to wish dead for the past two hours, because there's no such rare. There's no group content, and where there is, you get your team handed to you on a silver platter, the content so fucking braindead the most communication you will ever see is someone telling the tank to pull three camps of harmless punching bags to AoE down at once instead of the 2 he does now.

It wasn't the fucking stone age. Telegrams weren't new during the MMO boom, phones weren't, the internet wasn't, IRC wasn't, chatrooms weren't. There were a million and one other ways to talk to randoms from all over, that's not what MMOs were. It was always about the game. That you're stuck together, doing the same things, pretending that it matters. That's MMOs. That's what brought people together. You weren't happy because that ridiculously overdesigned sword +3 was pretty, it sure as shit was not(unless you were playing XI). You weren't happy because it made you kill a goblin in 6 seconds less time. You weren't happy because it had bigger numbers. You were happy because everyone was in on it. Because they had more or less the same goals, because it mattered to them. Because everyone is dancing to the same tune.

Chatrooms are sperging out about dnd to random people at a bar. MMOs were hitting up your buddy Mike whose beard and chest hair have combined into a perfect, singular, pizza topping encrusted, coral reef bacterial Gaia-like entity. It's boot camp vs walking past someone on the sidewalk.

Make an MMO and you'll get an MMO community. These modern pieces of shit aren't, no matter how much they insist on abusing the moniker. They're expressly designed to remove the human element from the game. Everything is instanced, so it's "fair", and balanced, and you don't run scared when you see someone fade in on the horizon, exhale in relief as you talk someone you run across into helping you, squabble over camps, none of that. No dynamic situations, that's all streamlined away. They're not massive in any way, and they're only technically even multiplayer at all. When players are brought to you at the click of a button, the content so braindead you don't need a word of coordination, that none of them need to perform and only most of them even there at all, you're fine with three out of five present and just pressing random buttons, and you're never going to see any of them ever again. When there's not a sliver of social interaction, and every player is the same, none of them effectively different from a bot in any aspect, it's -technically- a multiplayer game. But you can not call it massive when the overworld is only a place you sit around in waiting for a queue to pop and to get teleported into your own instanced, miniature little world. It's as much MMO as left for dead, with a chatroom to queue in, and as much MMORPG as vermintide.

Remove teleportation, and you'll see people make do. When, even with third-party tools, the alternative is an hour away, you'll see people make parties based on physical proximity. You'll see them mix up party compositions, assign roles and talk about how they're going to deal with this and that. You'll see them try again after a wipe, because they're now two or three hours in.

That's just one feature, out of many. You can't just shove your head in the sand and insist it's all the same, it's only the entire fucking world that changed, when the structural changes are so fucking big that aside from the 20+ year old games and private servers clinging on for dear life, "MMOs" are now closer to left for fucking dead, or streets of rage, than anything the term is meant to describe.

That is bullshit and you know it. And you stupid, stuck-up faggots are in every fucking thread.

>>16786270

>four paragraphs of vidya related discussion is too much

The absolute state of phoneposters.

To add insult to injury, he's completely right: most of the success of barebones and buggy sandboxes like DayZ, Rust or Ark is due to the ability to capture that old school MMO experience which no longer exists within MMOs.

>>16783024

no, theres no difference.

why is tv shit but the internet is awesome? why is tv shit?!

there is no difference between tv and internet, so why is tv for what it is worth, pure oozing shit machismo? while the internet is so fucking full of awesome shitmachismomenejmemanfjnaifejness?

so, they might if they dont notice which you wont at first but as soon as they get the chance theyull fuck it up. maybe youll have a bit while they beta test to see how people even behave in the new "vr thingamabob" th3en theyll shit all over it. like tv.

and everythiung else including those old mmos u just dont have the "immersion" anymore.

if by that you mean people intereactions. i can see my self emerged but i pull right out its just like this useless story being shouted or the little play they put on sucks so bad so much dick.

>>16783237

Said the same thing about it back in the 80s and 90s.

>>16786059

You completely missed the point of the video, and really, VR in general. I'll give you a hint. It has a bit to do with the fact you actually need to maneuver to grab the magazine out of the enemies gun, and not just press a button really fast. Although, even with this hint I suppose you'll still completely dismiss/intentionally ignore the point to VR games and what they add.

>>16786041

>It's a smart move if you look at it from a long term perspective of preventing startups from challenging your position.

It was smart for the first person who thought of this. Now every company does it without thinking. It's why I called it mindless.

>>16786744

I used the word refute wrong. His post is so stupid it rubbed off on me.

imagine paying 600 dollars to put a screen up your face

For any kind of immersion, the display resolutions of VR displays need to be larger so we can make out distant objects and they need to be huge enough to cover our entire FOV. Another thing they need to have is eye tracking for the sake of conversation. Anyone who's ever talked to someone in VRChat knows how jarring it is talking to a character and their eyes just sort of wander around instead of staying focused. These technologies exist, but they're stupidly expensive. Ironically, the biggest thing stopping truly immersive MMOs for the consumer is the same thing stopping developers from making them. Too expensive. How do you pitch to a team of investors an MMO that could cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make AND you have to convince gamers to fork over $1200 for a graphics card to run it and $1600 (HTC Vive Pro Eye) for a headset to play it on?

>>16788251

>For any kind of immersion, the display resolutions of VR displays need to be larger so we can make out distant objects and they need to be huge enough to cover our entire FOV.

bigger fov is hardly noticeable since your head movement will up for it which you usually don't notice. same way glasses work.

would also require a higher resolution thus upping requirements and price. stuff like that will only happen once we get to foveated rendering.

>Another thing they need to have is eye tracking for the sake of conversation. Anyone who's ever talked to someone in VRChat knows how jarring it is talking to a character and their eyes just sort of wander around instead of staying focused.

that already exists, vrchat is just lazy and simple in that regard.