/v/ - Video Games

It's less that linux has nogaems.

More that linux (Specifically, the more mainstream distributions, and beyond that, this somewhat has to do more with desktop environment structure and dependencies.) has an unhealthy need to not be windows in that it sacrifices some level of functionality for uniquity. Also the community does take for granted a lot of things you've got nailed down after using the operating system for 2 years.

I use GNU/Linux, but I really don't want to. I'd much rather use Haiku instead once it gets a bit better. I also don't want to use free software shitty clones, only the absolute best ones, which there aren't many of. I'd rather have a further abstracted cross platform wine project or ReactOS to actually get to a working state anyway, because having to reverse engineer every single game engine is a retarded way to preserve good games. But I'm not too hopeful that either will happen. So as it is I'd rather keep my airgapped Windows machine just for games, and hope some day we can emulate PC games at near native speed. Since several people are working on that much at least (emulation, not the speed part, I am worried that our processors will never get fast enough, so fug).

>>16746162

Look man, I can handle it, I'm just saying things could be a little less complicated than popping open the directory in terminal and mounting a .sh file and slapping in sudo every time you want to install a game.

Granted, yeah there's a lot of shit you can install with your package manager and that shits all nice and tidily wrapped, but sometimes shit just doesn't work.

And when you've spent about 5 hours of your time and the solution was to download the "wrong" driver because you own a graphics tablet that isn't a wacom, and you have to go through an annoying process every time you start your computer up. That kind of thing annoys somebody off linux.

And don't get me started when software fucks up in other weird ways like shitting itself if it's installed to a different drive for no discernable reason, and won't actually spit out what went wrong Thanks OpenVR

>>16746162

>You have completely misunderstood the goal

Yeah, and the supposed goal of communism is for everyone to work together, contribute as much as they can for the better good and ensure that everyone has what they need. Except this never happens and will never happen in practice because of the people responsible. The "goal" of Linux is irrelevant, the end result is needless obtusity where the Windows way was perfectly fine.

I've heard (though haven't had it be so in practice) that controllers and other plug-and-play devices work much better out of the box with Linux. If that's the case, that's great, that's exactly something that Linux could have as a small, yet marketable convenience. Just don't restrict random file directories, and don't tell people who want taskbar icons to work without ten steps that they don't need them and that they're "using the mouse too much".

>>16746080

Many steam games are playable through proton if you enable it in the settings. You can supposedly play non-steam games through proton, but I've never tried. Proton is steam's homebrew version of wine.

>UNIX has no games

Gnu is not unix.

Neither is Linux… So technically that statement is true.

>>16746151

>unhealthy need to not be windows in that it sacrifices some level of functionality for uniquity

>>16746185

>popping open the directory in terminal and mounting a .sh file and slapping in sudo every time you want to install a game.

Nothing GNU/Linux does in that regard has anything to do with not wanting to be Windows. What the fuck are you on about.

>>16746360

Yeah I don't need to chmod +x a .bat file, which aside from the literal content, is what a close equivalent could be considered to be.

>>16746185

>don't get me started when software fucks up in other weird ways like shitting itself if it's installed to a different drive for no discernable reason, and won't actually spit out what went wrong Thanks OpenVR

that's literally windows, linux at least gives you some hint or feedback when something went wrong instead of "something happened :(" or "can't execute" and trying to find shit online drowns you in shitty MCP posts spamming their /sfc macro to pad their postcount. and that's only if you're lucky and your problem isn't obscure af.

windows is fine if you use it like a more powerful facebook machine, but anything will piss on your fun one way or another, fuck even when used simply like that.

>>16746448

Look faggot, quite literally the only reason I found out why OpenVR wasn't working was because I put two and two together that the error it was spitting out was (kinda) the same error as windows which was documented. Which I can only assume that the niche of "Person that has a VR headset, that is also running linux, that is ALSO multi harddrive" just doesn't exist other than me, and had to be solved by unmounting the other hard drive (or unplugging, if it was hooked to eSata).

>>16746391

I know that, faggot.

>>16746455

>won't actually spit out what went wrong

>the error it was spitting out was (kinda) the same error as windows which was documented.

so what is it dipshit, no error (which is what I'm talking about) or there IS an error but fucking useless?

this also sounds more like and openvr problem, especially when that shit happens on both system

>just doesn't exist other than me

yeah, people getting into new tech only ever use windows and a single hard drive.

the fuck you on?

>>16746501

Eat shorts dicklips, it was spitting out an error with a number, number was 10 off an error from windows (which I had openvr already installed on fine.)

And when it comes to the multiple hard drive thing, it's really the only thing I can assume when my use scenario is a puny ass SSD so I can boot much faster and a big fat Hard drive to throw all the games on, apparently causing an issue, and finding out the issue (Part of OpenVRs files being installed to the Hard drive when they needed to be on the SSD) what the fuck else am I supposed to assume?

Strange OP, I find myself playing games on a distribution of GNU/Linux literally every day.

>>16746378

That's not trying not to be Windows, that's respecting basic POSIX file permissions. That shit predates Windows. If you don't like POSIX behavior, don't use a fucking POSIX shell. You can also just explicitly call sh on it.

Fucking baby duck syndrome. The way Windows does a lot of things is better, but file extension based operation and lack of proper execute permissions is not one of them.

>>16746517

Oh, I see, you're talking out of your ass. I actually happen to be a professional Linux and AIX programmer and ex-sysadmin. That's not how Linux's filesystem abstraction works, idiot. You have a unified filesystem hierarchy; programs that aren't accessing raw block devices don't care what disk a path is actually directed to, otherwise RAID, LUKS, and advanced filesystems like zfs and btrfs wouldn't even work in the first place. All those things are directed through the kernel. Windows lets you do the same thing, with some more effort. You could have Program Files mounted from a different disk than C: if you wanted.

>>16746191

>He uses the mouse

>On a POSIX system

Kek, go back to Apple. You shouldn't even have to launch an X server, that shit is pure bloat.

Learn how the shell works, and learn the basic UNIX utilities, and life on linux is ten times easier than on windows.

>>16746378

type into terminal:sudo umask u=rwx,g=rwx,o=

There, problem solved for all new files. Now the owner and the owner group can do everything they want to a file.

To apply this to every old file type sudo chmod 770 / -R

Done. Problem fucking solved. Don't blame the system for being a retard.

>>16746809

I actually prefer file extensions to magic number-based mimetypes on desktop OS level. It's annoying to me when I want to treat an existing file as a new unknown type, because instead of just giving it a new extension you have to define another mimetype to override the old one. Or I guess you could go through and edit the mimetypes to work like that and copy it over every time you change distros or reinstall, but for a desktop OS it's something I'd like out of box. Or at least as an option without having to heavily customize. When I do want to dig deeper into unknown files, I use something like binwalk or take a look in a hex editor for any clues to look it up online. If it's likely to be text, opening in a text editor (or web browser if it might use some weird encoding since browsers are pretty good at detecting that). It's not common though, and I think normalfags are better off not fucking with unknown files while other /tech/ types could figure it out without them. Mimetypes are indeed useful for servers, I just don't like them on desktop.

>>16746868

How to draw, animate, edit video, or synthesize music without a gui? :^) There's nothing wrong with cli, sure. In many cases it is preferable. But to say nothing requires a gui is just retarded. Especially on /v/.

>>16746822

look dickteeth, part of what was installed was in one directory, the other part was stuck in the folder that the installer was.

>>16746868

Oh yeah, how fucking dare I not know that I was supposed to type sudo umask u=rwx, g=rwx, o= to get a file to run then type sudo chmod 770 / -r.

>>16747326

How about learning basic unix commands? It's been 46 years, there's really no excuse by now.

>>16747274

Mimetype shit sounds like a DE issue. Most Linux DEs do use file extensions to determine programs to launch; only a few use mimetypes based on magic numbers.

Mimetypes aren't really "useful for servers". Some servers make use of them in specific predetermined ways. Servers don't depend on DE behavior because they don't run DEs. How they operate is completely specific to the server in question.

>>16747326

>look dickteeth, part of what was installed was in one directory, the other part was stuck in the folder that the installer was.

That should have nothing to do with your disk configuration or what is mounted where, unless you unmounted something in the interim or moved something somewhere else, in which case you shouldn't be surprised that things break when you rearrange file locations at will. If everything was where it was the entire time and you didn't unmount or move anything, than it has nothing to do with having multiple disks and would have broken with one disk.

Linux is explicitly built for multi-storage-device setup. There's a reason it has LVM2 and dmraid. The storage flexibility and power is one of the main reasons it's preferred for servers. Whatever you broke might be the fault of Linux, but it's much more likely either your own fault or some issue with OpenVR itself and definitely has nothing to do with multiple disks.

>>16747341

Is it that weird that you are expected to learn to use an Operating System in order to use it? You might as well be bitching that a manual transmission vehicle is "different for the sake of being different" despite being an older setup and that you don't want to have to learn it but want to be able to use it.

I'm critical of plenty of aspects of Unix and of Linux. The default permissions model has tons of issues (executability isn't one of them, though), but if you're going to shit on it, your arguments have to be more extensive than "it isn't like Windows" and "I don't want to have to learn to do something in a different way". If you want Windows, fucking use Windows. Based on your bitching, it sounds like you are just upset that it's different.

>>16747366

You don't drive a Tesla to get places, you drive a Tesla for the driving experience itself.

>>16747377

NIGGER I DON'T HAVE TO RUN A SHELL SCRIPT, THAT NEEDS PERMISSION CHANGED MAYBE BEING NECESSARY EVERY FUCKING TIME I WANT TO RUN IT

I HAVE A FUCKING HACKINTOSH, THAT WORKS FINE JUST SLAPPING THE FUCKING TABLET INTO.

>>16747385

No, you can just `sh myshellscript.sh`, or use a proper DE that will do that for a shell script. It's not that fucking hard and it doesn't need execute permission. If you're working from the terminal, you should expect POSIX behavior for security and compatibility. What were you having an issue with, double-clicking it in your DE or running it from the terminal?

MacOS works the same way. It's also POSIX (technically true Unix, but that's a licensing semantic). It still needs execution permissions for execution and needs programs to be set for known filetypes. What DE were you using? It sounds like you don't understand the point of a shebang: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebang_(Unix)

>>16746391

>they are two separate things with some compatibility with eachother

who else comfy in their FreeBSD with Linux compatibility enabled? fuck the tranny CoC the codebase remains un-pozzed

The non-systemd distros aren't very user-friendly in practice so the whole leenooks thing is getting even more difficult to get started with now

>>16747415

Ubuntu is Afrikaanz for: "I'm too stupid to run Slackware."

>>16747415

Artix.

>thinking shitty knockoff games are just as good

lol

>install distro

>install Lutris

Done, all games compatible

<"BUT DUDE OPENING CONSOLE IS SO HARD"

>>16747560

The justification is real. And sad.

>>16747341

I have less than ten commands committed to memory, the rest I can look up in a second through the apropos command. There are also good manuals you can read right from the terminal. If you have practice reading manuals you can find what you are looking for faster than you can flip though menus on top of menus.

And finally, you can write sequences of commands into a file, then you execute the file and it will perform all those commands for you. It's called a shell script.

>Linux

>>16747964

Terry said people that don't like terminals are niggers.

>>16746191

>and don't tell people who want taskbar icons to work without ten steps that they don't need them

Oh it's you from the other thread again where everyone told you that Plasma does exactly what you want out of the box

>trying to convert wincels to a better OS

<not just letting them suffer on shitdows

Cum on step it up op.

>>16748468

>The difference between us, however, is that I'm not for a second pretending my method of using the mouse is faster or better. It's not. If you break it down just on pure factual terms, what takes these guys a few key presses, takes me a lot of motions and clicks, said motions and clicks take way longer than key presses.

whining about CLI is retarded anyway since half the shit you have to do these days to tame windows is done via power shell.

>just copy&paste this string to remove onedrive

>this is fine

>just cop&paste this string into a terminal to do X

<OMG WHY DO I HAVE TO TYPE ALL THIS STUFF LINUX SUCKS WHERE IS MY MENU I JUST WANNA CLICK THROUGH SHIT

additional fun fact, it takes literally 5 different windows to change the time in windows 10. 3 if you know the shortcut by jumping to a different tab first. and literally 4 of those entries to get to the next one is completely unrelated to changing the time.

>>16747783

<obama linux

>>16747379

That's pretty accurate. Yes.

>>16747415

>non-systemd distros aren't very user-friendly

I've played a bit (live usb) with Devuan, and it didn't seem to be too complicated.

What DE/WM do you guys use? What distro?

>>16749620

>Age of empires 2 font error

Fucking thing doesn't even launch on windows without that font. Dare I say wangblows BTFO?

>>16749678

>using distrowatch as your resource

lmaoing your life

>>16749759

>font error

actually, that's because I use a Japanese name.

>>16749767

WEEB! HEY EVERYONE, WE GOTTTA WEEB HERE! EVERYONE POINT AND LAUGH!!!!1

>>16746151

>uniquity

>an unhealthy need to not be windows

I'd say it's the fact that Linux nerds hate quality of life with a passion. "Who needs menus and mouse support, I've been using console commands for 40 years and so should everyone else! Fucking normies! … Please use my distro guys! Guys?"

>>16749620

>Starjew Valley

>>16749813

Mind enlightening me why everyone hates Stardew valley? I never played it personally.

>>16749892

1. SJW writing

2. It's not Japanese

>>16749987

>SJW writing

Maybe it's because I mostly just focused on crops and shit when I played, but what SJW writing? It seemed fairly apolitical to me, just standard stuff.

>>16749987

Thanks

>>16750016

Probably faggotry.

>>16749620

what's the fourth game?

>>16749793

see

>>16748674

now neck yourself

>>16749987

It's comfy, I don't even pay attention to the 'writing'.

>>16750035

Katana Zero.

>>16747415

You do realise that's why linux autists screetch at systemd right? It's because, honestly it's easier then having to hack together a bash script to run at startup.

That alone is reason enough for distros to use it, but it's been furthered by the establishing of login managers (daemons or other startup services that exist to alieveate how shit X is and the fact it has to run root privliges to do anything)

The main reason systemd, dbus, udev, login managers(like consolekit/elogind) are hated is because they "break unix philosophy" which is another way of saying it isn't unix braindamage.

If you aren't someone who in oppsesed with every element of your operating system and you've literally never used anything aside from windows, these things shouldn't bother you. Issues like these get patched out rather quickly and the security on linux distros are already very strict even without a fancy setup like MUSL+HARNDED+SALINX+LVM+KVM+LUKS It's not neccesary it's just autism. 99% (other 1% is hardware backdoors) of all security holes can be fixed just by using a linux distro that isn't ubuntu or opensuse/fedora.

Basically as long as the distro of choice doesn't have a history of underminding user privacy it's a good distro. The software running is normally not much to worry about as distros often have extensive configuration on those utilities.

If you happen to be an idiot, these issues will bother you… But i will just remind you that you are not using TempleOS/plan9/openbsd and therefore everything you say is wrong.

X breaks unix philosophy.

Linux breaks unix philosophy.

Emacs GNU breaks unix philosophy.

Systemd breaks unix philosophy.

OpenRC breaks unix philosophy.

Python breaks unix philosophy.

Anything C that isn't ansi breaks unix philosophy.

Firefox/sjwcucks and it's forks all break unix philosophy.

Lynx browser breaks unix philosophy.

w3m breaks unix philosophy.

perl breaks unix philosophy.

bash breaks unix philosophy.

SSL/TLS breaks unix philosophy.

GIT breaks unix philosophy.

GIMP breaks unix philosophy.

Feh breaks unix philosophy.

Alsa breaks unix philosophy.

OpenGL breaks unix philosophy.

FFmpeg breaks unix philosophy.

CURL breaks unix philosophy.

Cups breaks unix philosophy.

TOR breaks unix philosophy.

Firejail breaks unix philosophy.

Cmake/GNUmake breaks unix philosophy.

Fuse breaks unix philosophy.

LVM breaks unix philosophy.

KVM breaks unix philosophy.

Packagemanagers in general break unix philosophy.

SSH breaks unix philosophy.

GTK breaks unix philosophy.

QT breaks unix philosophy.

Unicode breaks unix philosophy.

EFI breaks unix philosophy.

busybox breaks unix philosophy.

Imagemagicks breaks unix philosophy.

etc…

Point being, unix sucks if something breaks spec it probably has a valid reason for doing so even if you don't agree with it.

>>16747964

Believe it or not, there are many people who use computers daily who can't type for shit.

That is, they lack the speed to make typing commands viable for long term unsability.

slow shits can't into keybinds+basic fucking memory of commands+good hand positioning/general typing = touch screens and big buttons.

>>16752801

>it's easier than having to hack together a bash script to run at startup

Fuck off, SystemD is still broken shit. This "bash script" meme is meaningless when you can just use exec to drop yourself into any other program (and you can still just have SystemD execute a shell script anyways), the reason people use bash scripts is because THEY FUCKING WORK. Things went to shit in the first place because doing anything with hardware is a mess. The sensible solution would've been to make daemons more robust against hardware bullshit in the first place while also adding daemons to manage it where appropriate. It's not as if USB automount didn't exist before SystemD on Linux, and I still end up using ALSA because it actually fucking works because it doesn't try to be "le smart software".

>you are not using TempleOS/plan9/openbsd and therefore everything you say is wrong

I'm planning to install OpenBSD to see if it'll work as a daily driver, and the only reason I ever switched away from FreeBSD to Debian (well before SystemD and CoC) in the first place was hardware support. I then switched to Gentoo when Debian shat the bed.

Unix sucks, but everything in this industry is godawful and the only sensible analogy I can make is that the "tech industry" seems to have re-created the shitshow that is American politics in an entirely virtual space. X being brain-damaged is largely a result of the fact that GPU makers didn't give two shits about OSs having a sensible interface with the graphics card because it doesn't matter when Windows games just go into fullscreen, and everything went downhill from there because hey, it works on Windows, who cares? So in the end all X got was a bunch of stuff built specifically for X and no-one ever really answered the question of "what if I'm not using X?"

Fuck you, you can't blame Unix for the trash heap that is the entire fucking computing industry. Your "unix philosophy" list makes no sense, almost everything you list is either graphics-based (which is basically stuck as-is) or pokes at files and sockets using relatively standard protocols, which is pretty much what I would expect from "unix philosophy". Seriously, you listed fucking bash as breaking Unix philosophy, it is literally just a variant on the standard interface to Unix. Unless you mean "unix philosophy" to mean "only programs specified as being part of Unix according to SUS"

What is the most graphically impressive game that runs natively on linux. No steam and no WINE?

>>16753665

>no steam

ignored because irrelevant

The most graphically demanding game with a native build is probably Deus Ex mankind divided.

>>16753665

Maybe one of those UE4 demos?

>>16746080

The only way linux will get games is if it improves its market share and the only way for that to happen is if the linux fags give up there love of command line only interfaces in a huge amount of there shit and code some simple gui's to attract the normies, That wont happen tho so games will never be on linux.

>>16747379

>tesla

>driving experience

If the driving experience you're looking for is a fugly modern nu-car on a gay electric engine that needs recharging every few miles and costs thousands to repair a little scratch then yes, tesla truly is a driving experience.

What distro will make me feel like I have both the biggest brain and biggest dick?

I'm not a coder, so I have a question to those in the know.

I've seen smug skiddies who hate vidya and don't play it at all shit on Windows and gamers in general (don't get me wrong, Windows is pretty shit but for gaming it's necessary), but I don't see them do all that much with their computers and they frequently but machines more powerful that good gaming rigs. I am aware that computers can be used for more than gaming of course but it's not like these guys ever show creating anything that would require such amazing computing power (and they don't do CGI either), what do those l33t h4x0rz even ''do""?

But why would I want to play video games? Do you think I'm a fag?

>>16754256

Telsa is Open Source…

>>16753665

The Tomb Raider ones?

>>16754251

>I don't see them do all that much with their computers and they frequently but(?) machines more powerful that good gaming rigs.

They're probably compiling source code all day for imperceptible improvements or to use obscure compiler flags for their setup. If they want to run the latest code they also have to compile it themselves which takes up a lot of memory and CPU time. There's also a bunch of them that love nothing more than to look at benchmark results and argue about them.

I'd also include myself among them as I recently bought a decent GPU for the CUDA cores, the improved framerate in games I get is just an extra benefit. And I'd disagree with you for Windows being necessary for gaming, I haven't used it since Vista came out, my next computer is probably going to be POWER9 so W10 can't even run on it but I'll still be gaming on it.

>>16747964

it's slow. It's much faster to do shit like move files between directories by moving a mouse, than typing a command. 99% of the time I need to interact with the OS, it's mundane stuff like "move files" or "run program" or "rename file" etc. The remaining 1% is the rare times something gets fucked, which is the point when I open the terminal and start fixing it. That is to say, every time I do any of the operations in that 99%, I am saving time by not using the terminal. That shit adds up. That's not to even mention the advantages of GUI such as displaying files (rather than having to make a command to list everything in the directory) and their icons for quick identification. It's not that terminals aren't easy to use, it's that they aren't as comfortable.

>>16754363

<<what is man -k

A miserable pile of secrets.

>>16754246

*if you're not lazy

>>16746868

I'm a linux newbie, would chmod 770 -R * work if i did it in / ?

what's the most windows like Distro current available? i heard MINT is good

>>16754226

>I'm a linux noob. How did you acquire that level of skill? Is there a place you'd recommend for someone who wants to learn linux?

install a distro like mint/ubuntu and simply try to use it. most "knowledge" comes from having a problem and trying to figure out how to make it work. sure, you can memorize infodumps, but for most people it's just too frigging boring and pointless since they'll never use it.

the added benefit is that linux info is all over the place. a simple search for "wine keyboard" should bring of plenty of results, because you're most likely not the first one with that problem.

>>16754527

base is all the same more or less, difference is what DE/WM comes by default so should work without hiccup, but you can use any one any distro in theory

mint is fine, comes with cinnamon which should make any windows user feel at home. else tray one of the *ubuntu flavours or opensuse (itching to give thumbleweed a spin myself).

>>16753833

>ignored because irrelevant

DRM free is relevant.

>>16754284

You'll never learn linux unless you crack open the terminal and start using it. Its that simple.

>>16754549

Thumbleweed? can i get a link to that?

>>16754527

Mint, Elementary, Zorin and Solus.

Install VirtualBox and try them all out.

>>16754635

https://www.opensuse.org/#Tumbleweed

it's the rolling release version of opensuse, leap is the normal release.

>>16754710

dude just being able to run apt-get makes the user experience way better than fucking windows. You don't need to become one with stallman's beard to appreciate a command line.

>>16754878

You could use Chocolatey on Windows to get something similar to apt-get, my point is the understanding of what lies beneath the graphical interface requires far more than occasional use of the terminal.

On that subject this is one of my favorite rms quotes:

>I don’t know how to make a screenshot, because I normally use my computer in text-mode. I have X and GNOME installed, but I use them only occasionally.

https://anders.unix.se/2015/10/28/screenshots-from-developers--unix-people-2002/

>>16754919

you can use cygwin and other programs to get similar functionality, but for linux that kind of functionality is built into most distros. If not apt, then emerge or pacman or something.

You are always free to just unplug the internet cable if youwant muh privacy

>>16754574

>DRM free is relevant.

It's not to the question of what game is most graphically demanding

>>16755065

I have my games on a HDD due to space issues but I have not seen a general problem outside of initial loading screens.

Arkham City which I am playing right now really has some odd loading issues but I am more inclined to make UE or WINE responsible for that one given that most everything else works just fine

>>16747415

try cloveros

>>16755065

>(1)

>exchanging CP

CIA niggers need to Fuck off.

>>16754251

>I am aware that computers can be used for more than gaming of course but it's not like these guys ever show creating anything that would require such amazing computing power (and they don't do CGI either), what do those l33t h4x0rz even ''do""?

it's called consumerism anon, soulless people who define their lives by the things they purchase

>>16753530

>Your "unix philosophy" list makes no sense

>pokes at files and sockets using relatively standard protocols

Using standards and defying them are two seperate things.

EEE is entirely base around this concept.

Systemd uses standard init protocals but adds it's own, defying them.

Glibc, uses standard libc but adds it's own, defying it.

Linux has added NUMEROUS features that go well beyond anything unix which has made it a semi-truck of the OS(read as "kernel" for gnu triggertards) world.

All systems i listed have added egregous amounts of "features" which defy unix.

They have extended and hacked around what was once a operating system designed to be purposfully simplistic and made it incredibily complex.

Gnu/linux isn't a operating system of it's own accord. It is a taped together hacked around mess that abuses the shit out of an old standard that was made during the unix/bsd-lite era.

The only reason it works is because it in itself is a hack job built ontop of something that was never ment to do what they are trying to make it do.

This doesn't make Gnu/linux bad but it does make it something that isn't quite unix but wants to call itself unix (or posix w/e) because it's a unix tranny.

What was that acronmy that gnutards always spout? "Gnu's not unix?" so why the oppsession with "unix phillosophy"? The truth is they don't follow unix phillosophy, they follow it when it is in their favour or something of convenience to the programer/scriptkiddie.

>>16756454

>paying for windows ever, for any reason, even XP or 2000

You're just as bad.

>>16754251

fast cpu = fast compile times on shitty compilers like GCC

That way the ducktape on the hackfraudOS stays in place longer and it's less noticeable when things start shitting bricks.

>>16756458

I don't remember saying i paid for it, just implying that paying for it past 7 is dumber then dumb.

>>16755702

> It's not to the question of what game is most graphically demanding

If you're going to ignore the whole question you may as well add games that run on Wine to the mix, and if I just said DRM-free native builds, some really brilliant guy like yourself would insist that Steam isn't DRM.

So, again:

What is the most graphically impressive game that runs natively on linux. No steam and no WINE?

>>16756492

tuxracer

>>16756492

>some really brilliant guy like yourself would insist that Steam isn't DRM.

Depends on the game. Steam supports native Linux titles and nothing stops developers shipping DRM free executable.

>>16756635

>>16756492

Steam is a form of DRM because you need an account to play games.

>>16756638

You need an account do download them but if the game itself is DRM free you can copy the game directory somewhere else and run it normally like any other executable without Steam.

The Linux threads on /v/ is always a good reminder that “gamers” are the female drivers of technology.

>>16756492

>you may as well add games that run on Wine to the mix

No that's not the same since WINE has actual performance changing aspect whereas Steam providing you a native build has none.

>>16756883

Linux is fucking cuck's dream with code of conduct and whatever tranny SJW reforms it packs. It also doesnt play games so linux threads should be banned by default

fucking mass shootings dragging in the 4um kids again…

>>16758685

How well does that steam emu work on wine?

The standard cracks seem to have around %50 chance of success on my end.

I'd like to just take this moment to inform you all that I was right and it was an issue with the file browser included with my distribution changing the permissions of the steam vr folder causing it to fail. So eat it.

>>16758048

>especially when the man pages lack context when explaining what the options do.

You need to read the Info manuals (type 'info name-of-program' into the terminal). Or get the PDF or HTML manual off the website. On some distros you might have to instrall the *-doc version of a package to get the full documentation. These manuals are really exhaustive and actually explain things. Manpages are just a quick reference.

For example, here is the manual to GNU Make, it's almost an entire book:

http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/

I'm glad I looked through that list, this flare game is pretty fun and comfy. Though I'm scared it's probably pretty short.

>>16747964

The terminal just isn't intuitive off the get go. With a GUI application people can click on the options buttons and see everything the program can do, and how those functions interact with one another, the intended use of those functions, so on and so forth. This has been the standard for basic user applications for decades now, and people are used to that way of learning things. It's difficult to train that out of someone who just wants to use their computer to do basic tasks rather than needing to relearn things from the ground up. If people were taught how to operate a computer through Linux in school it wouldn't be an issue at all, because once you have a decent push in the right direction the terminal becomes very intuitive. But computer education in schools is dominated by whoever donates the most hardware. Initially it was microsoft, then it was apple, and now it's google donating "chromebooks" en masse.

>>16746080

What kills me is that most games work and most peripherals work but not all. Windows Mixed Reality doesn't work and there are no alternate drivers that would make it function. The official driver runs like shit too.

>>16764751

Did you install OpenVR?

>>16752801

Months too late but fuck off Pottering.

>has doom, quake, duke

>has wine, which works well for a good deal of older PC games

>has emulators

OP is a faggot.

>>16746162

Uriel did nothing wrong

>>16746080

>use a libre gnu/linux distribution on a librebooted laptop

>get a cheap retro emulation handheld (that runs gnu/linux, of course) for muh gayms

This kills the Losedows.

>>16777425

nevermind, found out the drivers are in the unstable for mesa

>>16748674

>having to "tame" windows 7 SP1/(or SP2 for anyone who ever needed it)

>ever

Its stupid fucking simple, especially when you are a power user and not stupid endusercattle.

Powershell is never even used.

You just let your windows 7 install disk rip, get SP1, use a PS2 port to install it on ryzens (whos motherboards all come with said port)

and suddenly you have plug-n-play for literally everything except for whatever microsoft visual basic redistribs you are going to need to play videogames which take all of 5 seconds to install and you do it perhaps three times in the 5-7 years you get out of the OS before it detonates to some obscure .dll file being corrupted. At which point you just do the exact same thing on your least valuable/empty hard drive.

tl;dr its like 1 hour of effort every near-decade if you take care of your machine until nothing runs on windows 7 anymore.

>>16749798

You've probably already heard of these, but whatever:

>hyperbola

Literally just stable, deblobbed Arch. I haven't heard of a install ever breaking on it.

>devuan

A systemd-less fork of Debian. Yeah, that's it, no added frills.

Anyone tried out running CODEX cracked games and/or unpacking Fitgirl repacks in Wine? None of that shit seemed to work the few times I tried it out. Any of you niggers got ideas on this?

Also, for any of you tinfoil hat paranoid faggots, I got a guide on how to set up an LXD container to play games, with bare ALSA and Void Linux as the guest. If anyone wants it I'll post the text file here. It's fairly specific to my usecase, though. So far it looks like it only works with Wayland for whatever reason, but I have no interest on making it run on X.

>>16760909

last time I tried fitgirl, which wasn't recently, the unpacker seemed to get stuck near the end, yet I got some installers to work fine in the past, I think it depends on the game themselves as different games use different compression tools and shit. Dunno about codex.

Linux has plenty of games. I'm playing ASSFAGGOTS right now.

>>16777425

AMD faggots need to wait months for proper driver support and Nvidia owners get them day 1.

This is why you don't let your driver development be outsourced to open source pajeets.

>>16778013

I wouldn't really mock on that regard, considering I'm pretty sure the proprietary drivers for the 5700 xt already exist.

>>16778573

Having pictures of screaming children; holy fuck that's creepy

>>16779485

Calm down nigger it's just a drawing.

late to the party but I don't care

>>16746868

Nice LARP. I bet the first time you heard of POSIX was the second post before yours.

>>16747319

>he thinks his picture was made with a CLI from scratch because it's rendered in a terminal environment

reminder that even simple shit like vi isn't CLI

>pretty easy to show soundwaves as a formula instead of a picture

just like it's pretty easy to use brainfuck for serious programming.

>I doubt many people are both into linux and animation. Artfags usually suck off Apple.

<you shouldn't be using Linux for anything other than programming anyway!

>>16746868

>>16747326

>type sudo chmod 770 / -R

Don't do that unless you want to break stuff.

>>16747929

>If you have practice reading manuals you can find what you are looking for faster than you can flip though menus on top of menus.

That really depends on the manual. If you're stuck on the syntax or don't know what words to search for what you need, reading manuals can be painful and the documentation on smaller suboptions can be awful at times.

>>16747964

High entry barrier, low return on time investment. Every time you need a new program you need to spend some time reading up on it, and possibly testing it before you can even begin to use it for your problem. Being able to make scripts is a nice benefit, but not every computer user needs has tasks he needs to automate. You don't even need a CLI for scripting, though you still need to know how to use your terminal to do so. Command line only is also a meme if you're not programming and you consider vim or other text editors"command line" when they aren't. GUI isn't even slower in many cases if you know the keyboard shortcuts you need.

>>16748674

Windows+r, type in "control panel", search "time" or choose "Clock and Region", choose "Set Time and Date". Works in W7, and the control panel wasn't really changed in W10 from what I can tell.

>configuring something once is the same as regularly needing to use a feature you don't like

Personally I don't mind using a command line to do stuff but that's just disingenuous.

>>16752801

That's bullshit and you know it. SystemD has a huge codebase and has had multiple vulnerabilities because of it in the past, e.g. the year zero leaks. In addition it is a huge mess of systems that are almost impossible to operate without using most components, so if you want one feature, you end up with the entire shitty codebase. Poettering has made some awful decisions in designing the parts of SystemD and refuses to change them.

> 99% (other 1% is hardware backdoors) of all security holes can be fixed just by using a linux distro

This line alone should tip anyone off that you're talking out of your ass.

It's amazing /v/ is simultaneously hipster tech nerds and also incompetent losers who can't get a simple imageboard to work.

>of all the ace combat games

>they make an open source Assault Horizon

But why?

>>16746868

The mouse evolved over time and many worked on it before Apple "came up with it" including:

Stanford Research Institute,

Telefunken

and Xerox which made the modern mouse with 3 buttons.

Apple on the other hand too that invention and removed 1 mouse button claiming they made it.

The first mouse with a wheel is from the taiwanese Kye Systems. 1 year later Mshit made intellimouse so they could claim the mouse wheel they didn't invent either.

*took

>>16781134

>GUI isn't even slower in many cases if you know the keyboard shortcuts you need.

GUI is faster even if you don't know them.

Using the mouse is just boring to the brain so it feels longer.

>>16781134

Amazing, a post that's made up entirely of straw-manning and baseless accusations.

>>16756453

>WAAAAAAAAAAA WHY ISN'T GNU (NOT UNIX) EXACTLY LIKE UNIX

Kill yourself. GNU was never even meant to be fully POSIX compliant anyway. Just "familiar enough".

That certain scriptkiddies want to tell you otherwise is not an argument.

I've been using linux to play games since april of this year. I play a lot of older games but this year i've beaten Sekiro, REmake 2, Control, The Outer Worlds out of the new AAA releases. Never going back to wangblows.

>>16781135

We were just pretending to be retarded.

>>16785156

It's something that forces you to memorize an entirely new language with 8 million non-english keywords/characters in order to use anything in your computer, and also makes it very easy to fuck up everything if you type something wrong. It's good for software development and larping but not much anything else.

>>16785158

rm -rf / yourself

>>16785156

Commandpromt in Windows is a terminal, albeit a pretty shitty one.

>>16746151

The joke is that, if anything, a good part of the community bends over backwards to mimic Windows or OSX functionality and design when doing their own thing would be way more functional.

Windows does so much wrong. There's a few things it does okay, but there's nothing worth emulating that isn't also half-assed and incomplete. Did they ever add tabs to their file explorer, or are they still behind the times on that, too?

Nevermind that the commandline is unusable and they're only just now getting people to use Powershell.

BASH is just more powerful

>>16746080

Proton is incredibly effective. Not perfect, but it's a starting point. It's what WinE was advertised as many years ago.

>>16785219

I think win 8.1 had tabs for the file explorer.

>>16785219

>Windows does so much wrong.

Less than MacOS as that one is an accessory for parvenues that only care about appearances and have zero interest in stuff like long term compatibility, and less than Linux in no small part thanks to Poettering deciding that the UEFI firmware on the motherboard should be treated as a read/write file by default.

>>16785273

Yeah, but you kind of have to acknowledge that Mac can get away with so much shit because they're more or less the only alternative competitor to windows in the consumer OS space, since congress couldn't be fucked to prevent monopoly building with their proprietary libraries.

Since this seems to be the Linux/UNIX/shit that is not Windows or Mac thread, I am looking to switch over to an operating system that is neither win or osx. I want to get into VR so it needs to have support for HMDs and the stupid looking controllers (doesn't need to be built in, but it needs to be available). Nothing specifically insecure but I figure since I'm already running hardware with backdoors built in trying to secure things at the OS level against anything other than common threats is kind of putting the cart before the horse.

Do terminals support configurable keyboard shortcuts? I type slow as heck and I'd rather just set up a macro where pressing say ctrl-i inputs and executes all the necessary commands for installation on a previously typed file. Also something that gives me in-depth error messages, tired of having to deal with programs that crash and spit back nothing or something generic.

If it is a distro that also is good for servers that is a plus, I'm thinking of running my own server for games I like and not having to memorize new commands would be a help.

>>16785281

Technically steamvr is officially supported on Ubuntu 18.04, so starting first with that and derivatives would (ex: kubuntu, xubuntu) be a good safe bet though I have heard people running steam/openvr on Manjaro and arch. Pretty sure you can save aliases for bash scripts, but you can also scroll through your terminal history for relevant commands you've already entered that aren't directory relevant

>>16785277

Mac can get away with so much shit because it's not an actual Os that's supposed to be used for work, it's a toy for the modern aristocrats to show off and prove their wealth.

>inb4 graphical design

False and gay, they buy properly calibrated monitors instead of Apple's half assed shit.

>>16785281

>I want to get into VR

Windows, that's where 90% of the userbase is at so that's what gets tested and supported relatively well: if you are allergic to Windows, run Ubuntu and use Proton to hopefully only introduce a few minor bugs, but there's no guarantee it will work acceptably if at all.

If you have the money for VR, getting multiple SSDs and keeping some empty to test different systems is an option.

>>16749793

Seriously, why don't you just use Windows if you want that? I mean it's Windows but it's quite a decent OS nowadays. Linux is just Linux. But you can have your "quality of life" shit if you really need it. But if you have it or not does not impact your ability to play games on Linux. You don't need colorful bullshit to install and play your games.

The native support though is a little lacking on many things. Older games work well in wine and games that are running natively are icreasing after all.

In the end I always need to run one machine with a Windows partition to really get everything to run that I want. That's not games only, also other specialized software. But at least using Windows became the exception.

>>16785281

>Do terminals support configurable keyboard shortcuts? I type slow as heck and I'd rather just set up a macro where pressing say ctrl-i inputs and executes all the necessary commands for installation on a previously typed file.

Your DE or WM might, but otherwise you can always use a program like SXHKD (Simple X HotKey Daemon) to set up hotkeys that basically run shell commands for you. In fact it might be best to use that anyway, so you can keep your hotkeys if you decide to change what DE/WM you use.

I also recommend Suckless' DMenu. That basically just gives you a little pop-up textbox that you can type a command in, with fuzzy tab completion. That means that if you want to open Steam to play some VR games, you can most likely hit a shortcut you made in SXHKD to run DMenu, then type "ste" or even "eam" and hit enter to instantly start it up, or select it from the options given to you.

>>16785289

I can confirm that Steam works fine on Arch-based distros, or at least the ones I've used. Dunno about SteamVR though, I am too much of a poorfag for that stuff.

>>16785294

Should kinda be clear here "official supported on" isn't interchangeable with "only works on" especially considering that SteamOS isn't supported under that definition.

>>16785298

Should be kinda clear that I wasn't responding to the "officially supported on" part but the

>though I have heard people running steam/openvr on Manjaro and arch

bit of his post.

>>16785303

My B

Nothing wrong with linux I use arch on my laptop to get work done and it's great, but using it on a gaming focused desktop or laptop with hybrid graphics is just a huge waste of time that could be better spent doing literally anything else.

Emulation on linux is also very good if that's all your into. Steam proton is fine but I see steam dropping support and it's also running into a lot of issues now as it gets bigger. Also just running compatibility layers to run every game is just adding more complexity and issues that will pile up and at some point just break or become massive bloat.

>Ctrl+F "Passthrough"

>0 results

Shamefur dispray, /v/.

I'm thinking of buying 2 used Nvidia cards, an older Ryzen chip with a compatible motherboard and run myself a Windows 7&10 VM on Manjaro.

Any hints on which parts to buy? Or how to setup the rig?

>>16746080

It's a chicken-egg problem for devs and gamers. Not enough gamers on Linux to warrant porting by devs and not many games are ported to encourage gamers to use Linux.

That being said, everything I want to play runs fine using Proton.

>>16785839

Why do people even use linux when their solution to a problem is to own two graphics cards then run windows through a VM. Isn't that just a huge waste of money and time while also still supporting windows as a platform.

Not really suprised the only people I ever see doing this are on reddit.

>>16785873

Why do people run emulators? Isn't that a huge waste of money when you can just buy the original consoles again and again anytime it breaks?

Who needs to run PCs to play games anyway?

>supporting windows as a platform.

I'm not playing into your semantics gaems.

>>16785885

I'm pretty sure I can run an emulator on a rasberry pie, that isn't going to cost me $200-$300. If you keep purchasing or using software for windows while using linux like a nigger your always going to be dependant on someone elses complex software or scripts to do anything, wine is at least 20 years old now. Even if I disregard all of the above your still buying two GPU's for no reason. Do you not understand how to use a bootloader ?

>>16785930

>raspberry

Good luck running any emulators that are more demanding than Mednafen.

>purchasing

>implying anyone on /v/ buys software

>dependant on someone elses complex software or scripts to do anything

That includes Wine and Proton, good job describing 95% of anons in this thread, Stallman.

>your still buying two GPU's for no reason

>Do you not understand how to use a bootloader?

>missing the point of running a Win7/Win10 on a VM in the first place

You want NSA looking up what kind of porn you watch as you're running RPCS3, be my guest.

>>16785944

>the points

the points

I can argue till Christmas Eve but just stop being a contrarian.

Port wine to HaikuOS

Only way you'll ever get me, freetards.

Linux is shit. It's worse than Windows.

Port those graphic drivers and Wine to HaikuOS and let this piece of shit corporation raped server OS rot in hell.

>>16785949

>Why bother with it if in the end you still run Windows?

Ah, yes. The blind hatred against Microsoft.

Why don't you stop using Linux? It's pretty much controlled by trannies' CoCk now.

>If the game is not running natively or using Wine, then fuck it there are plenty other games to choose from.

>being a defeatist

>letting yourself being held down and restricted by a piece of software

>>16785961

Does AR OS have movable windows under full load?

>C++ is shit too

Restricting yourself can also lead to worse performance.

>>16785967

Yeah, it has a GUI and window manager that works fine. There is no problem with it.

>>16785968

C++ is literally less performant than C and it's syntax is shit. Haiku only offers a C++ API which means that you have to wrap off the cancer instead of being able to call the OS like normal. You're just making people jump through hoops.. it's like Apple and Objective-C.

>>16785346

>I see steam stopping support

>Steam has put in a myriad of compatibility layers for steam games and hopes to have within 2% incompatibility by 2022

>Remote play a way to get people who use Linux able to play more games by streaming them from someone with windows instead of enabling wangblows to eat up more of the marketshare for no reason

>>16785281

Do terminals support configurable keyboard shortcuts? I type slow as heck and I'd rather just set up a macro where pressing say ctrl-i inputs and executes all the necessary commands for installation on a previously typed file.

No, but shells do (which is what you probably meant). You can do regular key bindings, you can write scripts, you can use some external keyboard shortcut application, or any combination of the above. I personally like to use sxhkd (Simple X Hotkey Daemon) to set up global shortcuts, then the keybinding functionality of my window manager for window-manager specific settings, and shell bindings for terminal stuff.

> Also something that gives me in-depth error messages, tired of having to deal with programs that crash and spit back nothing or something generic.

Most command-line application give good error messages, but that is something that varies on an application to application base. Unix programs are generally very terse and only tell you as little as you need to know, so don't expect messages like "To fix the issue try doing blah blah…". I consider that a feature though, I can always RTFM how to solve a problem when I know what the problem is.

> If it is a distro that also is good for servers that is a plus, I'm thinking of running my own server for games I like and not having to memorize new commands would be a help.

It shouldn't really matter, the main difference with distros is what software they have pre-installed and what packages are available. Aside from the package manager all commands will be the same.

> Since this seems to be the Linux/UNIX/shit that is not Windows or Mac thread

Strictly speaking, macOS is a Unix system. The terminal interface is the same, the commands are the same (there are little difference in detail because macOS descents from BSD and not GNU). That is how I originally got into the Unix stuff.

>>16785294

>I also recommend Suckless' DMenu.

There is also Rofi for those for whom DMenu is too… well, suckless. It is a bit more bloated, but it has more features and a configuration file format, so it can be used like a superset of DMenu. Rofi and DMenu are really handy tools, I can glue cool stuff together in a shell script in no time.

>>16785865

>It's a chicken-egg problem for devs and gamers. Not enough gamers on Linux to warrant porting by devs and not many games are ported to encourage gamers to use Linux.

Porting a game should be a non-issue in the first place. But game developers write their games for Windows first, hardcoding a whole bunch of assumptions about the underlying system, and then they have a hard time crawling out of the hole they dug themselves.

If you develop your software with portability in mind, then porting should be not much of a problem. Of course when you develop with portability in mind you cannot use any fancy hacks or shortcuts.

>>16785979

>There is no problem with it.

You didn't answer the question so I assume it doesn't.

>Haiku only offers a C++ API which means that you have to wrap off the cancer instead of being able to call the OS like normal.

Normal like the competitors? Windows old shit clusterfuck API no one wants to interact with without 20 layers of abstraction? The Linux API?

>it's like Apple and Objective-C

Objective C isn't well established and C++ isn't their project unlike Apple and Objective C.

C++ is like a superset of C with some changed rules. Neither in C nor C++ you can go faster than light or your CPU.

Both can be just as fast. Obviously a generic C++ abstraction is slower than a something made for the use case in C/C++

>With great power comes great responsibility

The performance difference between the languages themselves however is minimal.

>>16785281

When it comes to shortcuts in the terminal I'm surprised nobody here mentioned the alias function that's built into to most shells. Learn how to use that properly for common commands and you'll save a lot of keystrokes.

The way error reporting works on unix systems is through running the program with a verbose flag or compiling the source code with debugging features baked in and then using a text editor or tools to analyze the logs. It's not intended for basic troubleshooting by users to get a program to run properly the sysadmin is supposed to take care of that.

>>16785873

>>16785930

Most people with a computer bought in the last decade already have two GPUs in their PCs. Ever since they started combining graphics with the CPU and included hardware virtualization support in every computer using a VM costs next to nothing and is incredibly simple to set up. The Linux world has been doing VMs for decades already and dual booting with modern W10 is a nightmare if you're doing it from the same drive. An update from Windows will fuck with boot partitions if it sees them even on a separate drive .

>>16785993

>You didn't answer the question so I assume it doesn't.

How is "there is no problem" ambiguous? You brought up a problem and I said that it wasn't an issue. Even then your question barely makes sense. "Does it have movable windows?" It has a window manager, so yes…

>Normal like the competitors?

Yes exactly. Those API's are fine to use (although the win32 API is much nicer than what Linux has) and any language that can call functions using the C ABI can use them with minimal effort. (D, Rust, Lua, etc.) This just isn't true with C++. Using another language would be more acceptable if this gave you features that other languages don't allow, like LISP machines and their operating systems.

>Both can be just as fast. Obviously a generic C++ abstraction is slower than a something made for the use case in C/C++

Pretty different from your previous claim about not having C++ being a restriction. Of course you can remove what makes it C++ and regain that speed, but you might as well just write C again.

>>16786033

If windows is under full load, everything becomes sluggish. Same for other old OSs.

However Haiku does clever multitasking so that the UI gets as much cycles as it requires.

You probably haven't tried HaikuOS and don't understand what I'm talking about.

>like LISP machines

>/tech/ is gone but lispfags are still here and salty

>but you might as well just write C again.

Or not. It's not your choice! People write shitty C too.

If you think about the bugs MS Notepad had alone.

>D, Rust

Fug those. Isn't trying to refine C the reason you're mad at C++?

Now you list languages that try to refine C++ and fail utterly in my opinion.

D is a language with a garbage collector, Mr C purist / lispfag. That combination actually makes no sense.

>Lua

Lua is there to extend programs, not really meant as stand alone language.

>>16786030

Doesn't every terminal have aliases though? Like, even videogame ones

>>16786073

>he's an agoybefag

>>16786030

>Most people with a computer bought in the last decade already have two GPUs in their PCs.

I assume by most you mean those with Intel desktop CPUs using socket 1155/1150/1151 because those are the ones that typically come with iGPUs, save for KF versions. Intel HEDT CPUs and many desktop AMD CPUs do not have an iGPU. Given the popularity of Ryzen nowadays (in enthusiast DIY segment, AM4 is outselling Intel offerings), expecting a vidyafag to automatically have an onboard GPU is a stretch since something like R5 3600 doesn't have one. Also, most desktop Sandy, Ivy, and OG Haswell CPUs do not support VT-d which is necessary for passthrough, so no luck for them. The options aren't as vast as they seem.

>>16786045

>Haiku does clever multitasking so that the UI gets as much cycles as it requires.

Wouldn't using the fully preemptible version of the kernel with proper process priority settings and a latency-oriented scheduler achieve the same in Linux?

>>16786083

It was an exaggeration on my part, I see HDMI ports on most motherboards for the last decade and assumed that the majority of the chips had basic GPUs in them.

So it's more of an option compared to buying a second GPU for most people. Some laptops also have dual GPUs for the power savings it provides.

>>16786045

>However Haiku does clever multitasking so that the UI gets as much cycles as it requires.You probably haven't tried HaikuOS and don't understand what I'm talking about.

You mean the basic task of prioritizing the thread that the UI runs on? You know that this is a basic feature that isn't unique to Haiku right? DWM (the window manager that Windows uses) does this. But I don't know what AROS does here.

Projection about language choices is just a tangent. It was merely a point about how the C ABI is a standard interface that most languages support, while the C++ ABI is not. So, it is "well established" in the sense that C++ is a language that has been around for a while, but C++ is definitely not a well established interface to an operating system. You're just making people jump through hoops… not that I would bother writing D or Rust.

>That combination actually makes no sense.

You're taking my arguments out of context to project about what kinds of technologies I like. I only mentioned the operating system on LISP machines because the way it fundamentally worked was changed by the use of LISP. Therefore giving it an actual reason to not use a C ABI, since what would limit what it could do. Haiku however is just a clone of Unix/Windows written in C++. There is just no excuse here. It's just another OS with a design choice that makes it painful to port software too…

>>16786099

>HDMI ports on most motherboards

I see. For example, most AM4 boards have video outs in case the owner decides to stick a Raven Ridge, Picasso or some other APU in them, but many owners naturally go for big CPUs with no iGPU, like Matisse.

>So it's more of an option compared to buying a second GPU for most people.

That's true on Intel side, where even 9900KS has an iGPU. On AMD side, APUs typically have a fairly low-end CPU portion, so if you want a six or more core chip, you aren't getting an onboard. R7 3700X or R9 3900X with an iGPU simply doesn't exist.

>>16786106

Reminder that Adobe literally blocked its paying customers in Venezuela from using its products.

>>16786073

Good point, this is why I brought up the Passthrough/VM topic just a few posts ago.

>>16786077

>>16786106

>not understanding the hint

>wanting people to jeopardize their jobs so they can follow your software ideology

And Loonixfags wonder why the OS adoption rate rarely exceeds 2%.

>>16786168

I've tried passthrough, after months of banging my head against a wall trying to get it to work It finally started working but the cpu performance was almost half of native windows performance. I tried everything but the VM was refusing to give me decent CPU performance which was absolutely needed for After Effects, I eventually just switched back to Windows.

>>16786106

AfterEffects

though HitMaker is catching up to its features. Unfortunately, it too is not available for Linux

>>16786114

>paying customers

>venezuela

>>16786831

Not being a NEET with plenty of low value free time is not the same thing as being ignorant.

Terminals require a significant time investment to reach the same productivity an half assed GUI can give you out of the box, and proper scripting languages offer a much better return on investment if you need to do things a GUI isn't capable of.

Terminals have a few legitimate niches, such as remote management of low maintenance systems, but trying to use them for everything is yet another case of UNIX-induced brain damage.

>>16786859

>significant time investment

just because there are a lot of features doesn't mean you have to learn them all. learning 10 latin acronyms isn't a "language", cd is change directory, ls is list structure, you can tab complete with tab, things like package management are far easier and less time consuming, and then you can take advantage of the terminal by making aliases that simplify everything further. for example are two of my aliases that just make downloading videos/music easier.

alias ytm='youtube-dl -xci --audio-format vorbis --yes-playlist'
alias ytv='youtube-dl -ci --yes-playlist'

of course there are nuanced terminal commands but you dont need to know them and you end up learning them just by figuring out how much they can make your life better like cat (concatonate) for scripting or popd/pushd for directory navigation between two directories. man pages are great too, but again, thats something you learn to use overtime. and also it isn't easy to fuck up anything, just dont run random epic commands like "play the zelda theme in terminal!" unless you trust it or use destructive commands like rm without understanding what it does exactly. finally, the argument was never about "using terminal for everything"

>>16786859

Y'know you can whap tab to fill commands you're too lazy to type 4wpm

Not to mention there's plenty of UIs built for people too afraid of a terminal like you.

It was kind of a trend in 2015

>>16786868

>just because there are a lot of features doesn't mean you have to learn them all.

The additional capabilities are one of the few advantages CLI has over GUI, sure you can browse your files with ls and cd (or more likely with dir and cd, given which OS has 90%+ desktop market share) but it's a waste of time compared to using your file explorer of choice.

>you can take advantage of the terminal by making aliases

And to make useful aliases you need to know how different progams interact with the command line, and maybe know of a parameter or two that do what you want.

And you can get the same result with a script file, a text file (.bat), or even a shortcut for really simple stuff, all of which can be created using a GUI that will often make the job easier: for example, Powershell has a surprisingly decent default GUI with a side panel to look up native functions and the like.

>and also it isn't easy to fuck up anything

Fucking up everything is always easy: even in GUI all it takes is a few wrong keypresses to destroy hours of work (example: in explorer, undoing the creation of a folder which has been filled of files by another program) if you're not careful, CLI has issues that make it even more dangerous such as small, hard to see differences often completely changing the result, and lower amount of "are you sure" something's wrong before spamming Y.

More in general, my opinion is that any sufficiently complex script should be written as mostly OS-agnostic, so stuff like writing and reading data on well-structured files instead of directly piping between programs.

In practical terms, almost all scripts I wrote are in Python because that language has numPy and sciPy, and I need those libraries, and I can live with rpy2 to handle statistical stuff.

The terminal stuff is mostly tiny .bat files for odd scheduled tasks, and a single Powershell script that has been reliably handling some specific file processing for a good 5 years without breaking.

>>16786872

>thinks GUI doesn't have keyboard shortcuts

>thinks dislike of CLI equals fear of CLI

As I said, UNIX-induced brain damage.

>>16786898

>Purging a folder you are not completely sure about removing without using the trash bin

Yes, that's what mistakenly pressing CTRL-Z can do in Windows, because Explorer is retarded and will remove the folder and all of its content without warning (but will warn you every time you try to change a file extension, unless you click out of the file name box because lol Microsoft) and undo will only bring back the folder because hey, Explorer didn't create those files so it's like they didn't exist.

>This is the terminals fault

I brought that example specifically to show how GUI can be poorly designed and how they can't be trusted with preventing fuckups due to small user errors.

Please learn2read.

>>16786083

>achieve the same in Linux

Haiku OS has a hybrid kernel like Windows.

>>16786110

>DWM (the window manager that Windows uses) does this.

It does it so well my OS freezes up for multiple seconds when I run a Unity game that takes up my resources. I'm using Windows so I know what happens if you put it under stress.

Haiku doesn't just prioritize the UI but also the core system components.

Google is already using it's code to build Fuchsia, an Android replacement.

Android apps will be run through a compatibility layer similar to Wine for Windows.

>is definitely not a well established interface to an operating system

You mean because MS was to shit to write a C++ compiler back in the day?

>You're just making people jump through hoops…

Says the LISPfag. Rust is a piece of shit Java 2.0.

>makes it painful to port software too

Not even true but without graphic drivers there is low interest, especially because it's a DESKTOP OS.

It doesn't adhere to funny sysadmin or industry 2.0 needs.

It's hard to get it going. With Windows preinstalled on every PC, BeOS didn't take of either.

Linux has it easy. What do you think MS Asure runs on?

>Haiku however is just a clone of Unix/Windows

Not true. MS tried to implement a database filesystem but failed and made an indexer instead.

Everything consists of legacy tech and workarounds. It's the same for the others.

Linux OSs have the program do the window drawing since decades. Not because it makes sense but because X is a piece of shit.

And instead of making a good OS and throwing out X, they threw out X and have the Window manager smash the prerendered windows together.

But that's fine because IT JUUUST WORKS ;)

>>16786168

Not Loonix. Agoybe makes shit software.

>>16786902

Yeah explorer is a piece of shit.

>>16785256

No it doesn't.

>>16786907

>what is user error

I beg you, learn2read.

The entire point is that GUI is expected to mitigate user error, and so a single wrong keypress (Z instead of X) instantly deleting files remotely and with no warning is a big fuckup that goes against the conventional wisdom of GUI being much safer than CLI.

>>16786896

>muh file explorer

Use ranger or nnn, in-terminal file browsers with vim-like keybinds and which allow you to run commands like normal, except with Visual-mode selection of multiple files

>>16785256

>>16786922

He was probably thinking of some external program, like the stuff Stardock makes. In fact, looks like they have something called Groupy which does exactly that.

>>16786951

> like the stuff Stardock makes

Yeah, that is very likely!

On Haiku you can just tab windows together as if they all were browser windows.

>>16786951

An in-terminal file explorer has some advantages, but it certainly requires much more learning than your standard GUI file explorer, and "open terminal here" already covers most of the use cases in a much more efficient way.

But neither of them is useful if you only know cd and ls, which is what was being discussed above: users have a LOT to learn before they can use terminals to get things done.

>>16786916

>my OS freezes up for multiple seconds when I run a Unity game

Unity doesn't even work in Haiku. Can you really say that you've seen it deal with similar OS destroying programs that make the kernel choke? Haiku also doesn't have graphics drivers… which are another thing that can freeze the whole system up (they run in Ring 0, after all). I bet if you tried to run all of that shitware on Haiku's kernel it would choke just as badly.

>Google is already using it's code to build Fuchsia

You mean their Kernel that exposes a C API and not a C++ one? I wonder why the cancer is being purged in this new project? Still I think it is a good kernel, it isn't implementing POSIX cancer interfaces like fork() for example and screwing up the system.

>You mean because MS was to shit to write a C++ compiler back in the day?

POSIX and Win32 both have C interfaces. It's not something specific to MS (who did write a C++ compiler back in the day, Visual C++). Either way BeOS and by extension Haiku are the only systems that took that cancer pill.

>Not even true

The fact that you have to wrap off the C++ API to use it is bad enough. But I guess it's just as bad as MacOS. At least it's not as autistically ideological as Plan 9… but it's just another gimmick that makes it annoying to port things written in any other language than C++.

Anyway it doesn't turn me off as much as other systems, I just think AROS is much nicer. And i'm not a LISP or Rust programmer, I only really have an interest in writing in C and assembly.

>>16787089

>Unity doesn't even work in Haiku.

If it would it wouldn't lag. I made a machine from the early 2000s with 200mHz and 1GB ram run haiku and what I say is true.

>graphics drivers… which are another thing that can freeze the whole system up

It's not the graphics. I could name other examples.

>it would choke just as badly.

The software might but not the OS.

>like fork()

>fork()

>fork

Are you serious right now?

>it doesn't implement the things that cause bugs and evil, oh no — it must be fixed

>POSIX and Win32 both have C interfaces

I dunno what you're talking about. Haiku implements POSIX, so it does have some C style interfaces.

>wrap off the C++ API to use it is bad enough

Depends on implementation and language choice. I could say the same about Redox OS.

>I just think AROS is much nicer

For what? Emulation?

>>16787089

I mean just try haiku from an USB stick.

>>16787182

>I made a machine from the early 2000s with 200mHz and 1GB ram run haiku

I have made a similar machine run AROS, what's your point? And so you haven't even tried, so how do you know? Windows performs really well if you don't run heavyweight shitware on it…

>Are you serious right now?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2019/04/fork-hotos19.pdf

>it does have some C style interfaces.

Well that's good to hear, I mostly got turned off to the whole thing when I tried to look into the graphics API and could only find C++ classes.

>I could say the same about Redox OS.

You could and you would be right.

>For what? Emulation?

As an OS. I would rather use it over Haiku. But maybe the original point has lost a lot of meaning in our argument/discussion

>>16787186

>https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2019/04/fork-hotos19.pdf

What's that supposed to mean?

https://linux.die.net/man/3/posix_spawn

>Windows performs really well if not under load

All OSs do that.

>I would rather use it over Haiku.

if you say that it makes me assume you're talking about linux hosted AROS not baremetal.

Why would you run DOS over Windows?

>>16787200

>What's that supposed to mean?

Pay more attention… I was mentioning how the Zircon kernel does not include a fork() system call, and claiming that fork() is a bad design. Not saying that POSIX does not now include new abstractions like posix_spawn().

>All OSs do that.

My point is that you don't have any complex programs like Unity to put Haiku under load with. So your whole point about how Windows stutters and Haiku wouldn't do that is just speculation.

>linux hosted AROS

AROS has its own microkernel. On 68k it can even run without an MMU present (which Linux is not capable of doing).

> bad design

Ups you said that here >>16787089 , my fault.

>>16787205

>to put Haiku under load with

Web browser with JS is enough to do that with 1GB and 200 MHz

>>16787205

I still prefer Haiku with it's hybrid kernel.

>>16787209

It's fair enough, and I probably will take a closer look at it, at least to port my software too it at some point. The lack of hardware acceleration is why I haven't yet, I would have to write a software renderer, which I want to do eventually, just not at the moment. AROS has the same problem… still it's just the chicken and egg situation and the only way to break the cycle is to bite the bullet and start investing in systems like that.

>>16787212

Or someone ports those AMD and nuvea drivers from Linux.

>>16787212

>have to write a software renderer

Haiku has an opengl software renderer and no one has ever written one for Vulkan on any platform.

So no, you don't have to.

AROS seems to have software opengl support through mesa too.

>>16787213

>>16787355

>>16787358

Using software implementations of OpenGL is a shitty solution and would result in a much worse user experience. There's a big performance gap between mesa and dedicated software renderers. So while I could get some basic results using those, it wouldn't be an adequate level of support. another reason is my program is kind of unstable right now and more ports at this time would be a detour from it's development

I've run the AROS soft-OpenGL demos on a Pentium 4 CPU and I wasn't impressed with how fast it ran. Similarly I ran my program using the Microsoft GDI generic software implementation of OpenGL and had performance issues with the program in question… but , issues with a scene less complicated than what you have in the quake engine. It would probably be playable on faster CPU's but it's basically moving the performance requirement on the hardware forwards 5+ years. A basic SSE2 CPU should be able to render what was given to it at 60fps, not 10. If it's more advanced I should be able to do more lighting effects, etc…

>>16787363

Yeah they are. Probably I misunderstood you.

Do you mean a hardware renderer when you say "have to write a software renderer"?

English is not my first language.

Also out of curiosity, how's ReactOS doing?

>>16787368

I don't, I think that… you can probably do a better job than mesa's software renderer, mostly because you don't have the burden of trying to implement OpenGL standard with a certain degree of correctness (you can use different equations, etc, anything to make it faster for the same result). Also you might have a bad compile / bad optimization on the specific implementation… it's just unreliable. So I want to write a software renderer that can perform as well as the CPU allows for my use-case.

>>16787442

Does SDL2 have one? It's written in C.

What would be some reasons to use Linux over pirating Windows, for someone who has never used Linux?

Also how big of a performance hit would one expect when it comes to vidya and emulation on Linux?

>>16787454

Most of the shit you would do work with has free alternatives. Referring to Proton in particular, there really isn't that much of a difference performance wise unless you hit a hard incompatibility. Ex: Pavlov VR outright refusing to boot, a bug with unlocking DeathWish in A Hat in Time (that might be patched at this point) that happens around 10x worse, but other than that it works fine.

Also having more choices with the desktop environment and window management is nice, and while this is kind of a niche thing, if you change your hardware a lot you don't ever have to worry about windows deciding that copy of windows doesn't exist any more and you won't need to rerun a keygen.

>>16787458

>about windows deciding that copy of windows doesn't exist any more

He asked about pirating windows.

>>16787459

What I referred to still happens on pirated copies of windows (especially win 10)

>>16787458

I was asking what Linux "does" better than Windows as an OS

>>16787462

Nothing.

>>16787462

That's an extremely broad question.

Programming is more comfortable.

>>16787465

I admit I have a limited understanding of OSs.

>>16787461

I don't think it happens with the 38 years key hack.

And activators can just reactivate it in a fucking sec.

>>16787461

Actually KMS Auto net runs as a service and reroutes all activation request so you must be using a shit activator.

>>16787450

It might but C isn't really a good enough language for this kind of thing, you basically just want to write the whole thing in assembly. Compilers are bad in general, C isn't terrible but C compilers are just inherently not as smart as a programmer. This is true for SSE2 hardware, even more true for AVX hardware. Basically a requirement if you wanted to take meaningful advantage of the new AVX512 instruction set. although I don't feel like spending the money on one of those, maybe in a few years…

>>16787468

If it was a broad answer, I'd have to say they have the benefit of around a 3 decade monopoly in the home computing space, but that's more a consequence of the market rather than any sort of inherent attribute of windows as an operating system, on a super basic level most desktop environments and filemanagers on linux I'd say are vastly superior to explorer on stock windows.

>>16787474

>desktop environments and filemanagers

There's like KDE …and KDE and all their filemanages suck too.

And the community is full of terminal niggers.

Just get Windows server 19 and be done with it.

>>16787475

>Windows server

what the fuck

Honestly, why would you want that?

>>16787475

There's more than just KDE buddy, have you tried gnome tweaks? Mate? XFCE? Cinnamon?

>>16787478

No forced updates — ever— and better specs. It has DX and all the other shit too.

>>16787481

>gnome

>wayland incompatible shitware.

No, thanks.

>>16788308

It still seems very weird that with GOG galaxy 2 coming out they didn't bother getting any sort of Linux client with proton/winetricks built in.

>>16788308

>Intel Compute Stick

>look it up

Seems like expensive crap to me.

>>16786168

>And Loonixfags wonder why the OS adoption rate rarely exceeds 2%.

I don't even want more people to use Linux, that would just lead to it becoming even more normalfag friendly than they have already made it. I use Linux for being like Linux, not because I'm mad at Microsoft and want to boycott them.

>>16786902

>>Purging a folder you are not completely sure about removing without using the trash bin

The recycle bin pisses me off, it's a waste of time. Windows always talking back to me in general. Also when you actually delete a file and find out you can't for some reason, a cli with elevated privileges is often enough. Or issue a command to get the PID of the process using it. But hell, on Linux most of the time I can just delete stuff without something blocking it. Windows for some reson often tells me stuff is in use when it isn't, I suspect it to be because of the defender.

>>16788356

That's the case with a lot of the ultra micro pcs.

>>16788368

Nigger what you are saying makes literally 0 sense, any fucking type of archaic design you want you could use for however long you want.

>>16787969

They all reek of Stallman's foot fungus? Wincels pwned!

Just play Armagetron and FooBillard, shit kept me busy aside from emulators and roguelicks.

>>16788320

>DRM-free platform doesn't build a Loonix client for their most dedicated customers

Stupid niggers.

>>16788320

>>16788613

>buying abandonware from stealing polacks

>why are they doing this?

Why are you doing this?

>>16788618

>stealing

Wut

>>16788629

That might be because you don't have Vulkan installed, or are missing 32bit libraries

>>16788638

Apart from witcher 3 it does. 1 and 2 are abandonware. 2 crashes all the time and gets no fixes since ever.

And they do have the source code

1 crashed a lot too iirc but not all 5 minutes when talking to merchants

>>16788629

>laptop

>lag

In addition to what >>16788639 said, it might also be that you're running games using integrated graphics

>>16788629

Source?

Also here's a retarded question, does your choice of distro affect vidya performance on WINE/Proton?

>>16746080

>Filter by playable

>Overwhelming majority of games disappear

>Some games tagged as playable require connecting to dead servers

>Some are dead links

I've been trying to find the name of X-Force for years though so thanks.

>>16788768

Do many games support Vulkan?

>>16788771

Yes, but more to the point it's used for things like DXVK and D9VK which is pretty important when running wine/proton., and to an inexperienced user, it may appear that games simply aren't playable, when in reality, Vulkan just wasn't available for the translation layer to function.

>>16788629

I don't understand that photo. Does it mean you're getting fucked by Linux?

>>16788639

>>16788682

I installed mesa's vulkan through the Synaptic Package Manager and sadly, Megaman Legacy Collection still did not run. If I want to play Megaman on my laptop, it looks like I'm going to have to use emulation. Also, I could be wrong, but it looks like Steam lags a little less.

libvulkan also seemed to be installed to, according to Synaptic, if that means anything.

>>16788761

Search kyarotto_(zenkixd) on Chan SankakuComplex. If you've never been to that site, make sure you have an adblocker, because their ads are aids.

>>16788818

Death of the author, anon. It means what you want it to mean.

>>16788897

Mesa alone doesn't change the fact you might be using your iGPU. You need to have Nouveau or NVidia's closed source drivers if you have a NVidia card, or AMDGPU if you have an AMD card, and then se something else to actually make programs use those (unless you want to just use only that and never use your integrated graphics).

I only have experience with NVidia's side though, this may not be true for AMD.

>>16788897

Thanks for the source, anon. Is it yuri?

I'd recommend just emulating if you want to play any of the MM games, because I doubt the Legacy Collection can also let you apply patches and play fangames.

I'd recommend Rockman Unlimited and Rockman Minus Infinity.

>>16788932

You're welcome, anon. I'll take a look at those rom hacks.

The related images are heterosexual.

>>16747964

Imagine a "gubermint" form with all of it's i dotting, t crossing, p and q minding with a heaping helping of intentional obtusity.

Got the visual in your head?

Now imagine it's blank and you have to fill it in from memory

>>16789113

Except in reality all you have to do is remember the first three letters of your name and hit tab

>>16789741

The tab key gives you the word you were typing if it's the only one that starts with those letters, or a list of all the ones you may have meant otherwise. It's even smart enough to know if you were trying to type a program name or a filename based on the previous words. The only other thing you need is "man [program name]" to find out what arguments you can pass to programs.

>where did you determine to use tab from

Nigger I don't know, programming since I was 7 years old or some shit? Tab completion is such a fucking universal standard, probably since well before you have been born judging from your behavior, that it's almost like you asking why the enter key would submit text in a chat program.

>>16789774

You do know you're proving his point; the average layman isn't going to figure this shit out.

>>16789783

Except his point is "the terminal is like a government form you have to write entirely from memory"

All my arguments thus have been about how the terminal helps you fill itself out with very minimal effort or memory required from you. If he wanted to make a point about how hard it is to figure things out, all I would need to do to break that argument is point to the myriad of available tutorials all over the internet.

And you really want to argue that retards can't figure out the equivalent of "hit enter to send message"? MSN, Skype, Discucked prove otherwise. Hell, some of those even have tab completion. Even the average retarded 10 year old playing Minecraft knows about tab completion. Plus I said 7 year old me, are 7 year olds somehow not laymen?

You vastly underestimate the ability of the average normalfag to learn things. The problem here is that what they learn happens to be Windows-centric. Nearly everyone in a developed country knows what a start menu is, how to copy and paste using shortcuts, hell even double clicking to open or run things is something no one would be able to figure out on their own if they weren't conditioned for it by other users. All of your arguments would apply to everything everyone does on Windows machines if Microsoft hadn't made a deal with governments to sell Windows at a massive discount to schools in return for a monopoly on education.

>>16746080

For non linux compatible games, most 2d titles run, 3d depends on anticheat and if your pc can handle the overhead of proton/lutris/whatever its called now. Lately all ive been playing is runescape and minecraft and being java based both run on linux like normal.

>>16789797

>All my arguments thus have been about how the terminal helps you fill itself out with very minimal effort or memory required from you

Which means jackshit does if it requires a function that the only way to find out is another person told you that, because you're stuck unconventionally doing it the hardway.

>If he wanted to make a point about how hard it is to figure things out, all I would need to do to break that argument is point to the myriad of available tutorials all over the internet

That just proves his point the average person isn't going to need a tutorial to use a fucking mouse.

>7 year olds somehow not laymen

You said you started programming at 7 years old you are sure as fuck not a layman.

>Nearly everyone in a developed country knows what a start menu is, how to copy and paste using shortcuts, hell even double clicking to open or run things is something no one would be able to figure out on their own if they weren't conditioned for it by other users

Honestly you don't need to know even half of those things to functionally use windows. You do however need to use the terminal to use linux.

>The problem here is that what they learn happens to be Windows-centric

>All of your arguments would apply to everything everyone does on Windows machines if Microsoft hadn't made a deal with governments to sell Windows at a massive discount to schools in return for a monopoly on education.

This is more of a GUI is more intuitive than terminal UI-thing than a windows-thing. If windows didn't catch on apple would have filled the vacuum instead and you be bitching about people are too used to apple's UI instead.

>>16789797

>if Microsoft hadn't made a deal with governments to sell Windows at a massive discount to schools in return for a monopoly on education.

They do that here to in every city in my country.

However terminal applications, especially for end users, who aren't programming socks wearing sysadmins, still suck and the programmer was just to lazy to make a gui.

>muh GUIs cost several KB more

Nobody cares.

>>16789814

>about people are too used to apple's UI instead.

That would be horrible. They might even try to steal my middle mouse button, those sneaky niggers!

>>16789814

>the average person isn't going to need a tutorial to use a fucking mouse

They did at some point, even you did, you just don't remember it because it happened so long ago. You weren't born knowing you can drag a file around to a folder to move it into there, you were told you can do that or saw someone else do it. If you had been told you can type "mv file dest" instead it'd be just as intuitive to you now as using a mouse is.

>You said you started programming at 7 years old you are sure as fuck not a layman.

I am not one. But I was one at the time. Children are laymen at everything. Adults who did something as children are experts. As are adults who decided to start doing something despite being bad at it, and keeping at it. You sound like someone who believes art is about talent.

>You do however need to use the terminal to use linux

A lot of for-retard distros can be used just as easily using just GUI stuff until you want to do something advanced, and when you want to do something advanced on Windows you also need to look up how to do it. Especially now that a lot of settings are buried into two separate settings menus in Windows 10.

Please note, I was a windows poweruser until a few months ago. I didn't switch to using linux fulltime until recently. I'd been spending too much time trying to get my windows setup to work the way I wanted it, which wound up including more and more cygwin usage, and I realized that at this point I was better off just switching over.

I fully agree that to the average user, a lot of terminal stuff isn't as usefull as to a poweruser. But it isn't any harder to learn than learning to use a computer would be to you if you didn't have any previous knowledge and were at a reasonably advanced age. As a teen, I gave entry-level computer classes to some retired people. "Move the mouse and double click" is harder than you think.

>>16789854

> two separate settings menus

Just use gpedit, dipshit.

>windows poweruser

Then you'd know about gpedit.

>terminal stuff isn't as usefull as to a poweruser

Sysadmins have powershell.

> you were told you can do that or saw someone else do it

Or you figure out things with logic and trial and error.

How do you think I was using a pc with 6 when my parents are to pleb to use pcs properly?

I still think those shortened paths like "User", "Videos", "Downloads", etc. confuse users and make it harder for most people to understand where they actually are on the drive. Niggers should remove this crap.

>>16789854

>They did at some point, even you did, you just don't remember it because it happened so long ago

I get your point, like japanese wouldn't seem a difficult language if it was the only option to learn. I believe that given a choice, after being shown how to do file dragging or "mv file dest" a person would choose the former. Unless the person had a really good wpm in first place from a typewriter or something.

>I am not one. But I was one at the time. Children are laymen at everything

I was focused on the child doing programing bit than anything else. You have to agree that's a bit abnormal at 7. You had a more vested interest so you were willing to dick around more than adult or kid that just wanted to play frogger on the pc. So you could of found the tab thing by accident. The latter two are fine with just getting the shit to work.

>A lot of for-retard distros can be used just as easily using just GUI stuff until you want to do something advanced, and when you want to do something advanced on Windows you also need to look up how to do it.

Yeah I know about that, I have mint on one of my harddrives and I had a mouse problem with it so I had to use the terminal to change some shit to fix it and just recently I had look shit up for windows getting a wireless xbox 360 controller to connect right. Like manually installing and forcing drivers. Thinking back, I had a more frustrating experience fixing the problem with mint than windows. Yes I understand that may be more me being inexperienced with linux as a whole.

>I fully agree that to the average user, a lot of terminal stuff isn't as usefull as to a poweruser

Glad were on the same page here

>But it isn't any harder to learn than learning to use a computer would be to you if you didn't have any previous knowledge and were at a reasonably advanced age

To a degree, but I still think the gui way is easier to operate although the actions may take longer than using terminal to do the same thing, if you know what your doing.

>.As a teen, I gave entry-level computer classes to some retired people. "Move the mouse and double click" is harder than you think.

I do believe that.

>>16789876

I know GPEdit, but that isn't even available on most people's windows installs (at least out of the box), and is possibly even more applicable to the "you wouldn't know it if no one told you about it" argument the other anons made than some terminal commands as a result.

>trial and error

Seems to be mostly limited to children. Adults are too afraid to try most things for some reason, same as when you put them behind a piano. Most kids will gldly hammer away and sometimes figure out something that sounds kinda fun, adults tend to get nervous and not play unless they already know how or have an instructor.

>>16789881

>You had a more vested interest so you were willing to dick around more than adult or kid that just wanted to play frogger on the pc

I was a bit early with videogames, playing SNES games at age 5 or so and playing shit like Prince of Persia through DOS, and because of that decided I wanted to make videogames when I grew up. My dad had a habit of buying me books on stuff I got interested in. And that's the story of how I became a failure at life and wound up on imageboards.

>Thinking back, I had a more frustrating experience fixing the problem with mint than windows. Yes I understand that may be more me being inexperienced with linux as a whole.

Understandable, but the point here is that in both cases you presumably had to look up how to do it. Given the drivers somewhere in a folder on your hard drive and no internet access, you'd probably have just as hard a time getting the controller working as the mouse, or rather it probably wouldn't happen at all in both cases because you wouldn't start double clicking random installers or typing stuff into a terminal.

Also, I think a bigger problem here is how linux isn't a unified system, so there's often multiple different programs and solutions for a given problem, depending on your distro. You could have done both fixes using a terminal/the powershell, but the Windows one was a lot easier because the fix was "just a driver install for windows" instead of fixing this setting for that desktop environment using such and so version of xorg. With more choice comes more documentation and fragmentation. But this discussion was about terminals being harder, not Linux being harder (which it admittedly is).

>To a degree, but I still think the gui way is easier to operate although the actions may take longer than using terminal to do the same thing, if you know what your doing.

for basic actions, I'll agree this is true. Moving a single file, dragging it is frankly faster than typing stuff if you have your hand on the mouse anyway. Terminals should be used then they're useful, such as bulk moving a lot of files with certain patterns. Hell, both options are often shit compared to a terminal file manager. And the right hotkey set up is easier than any mouse or command typing could ever be.

>>16789910

Most of those retired people still learned how to do it, and I could just as easily have taught them command line stuff. Seniors hardly count as the average normalfag anyway, their brains understandably have a lot more trouble making new neural pathways.

<press LMB, move mouse, and release over folder

I think you mean

>move mouse over to start menu and click

>then move over to file explorer and click

Because normalfags don't know Windows+E is a thing

>then doubleclick 12 different folders to get to where your file is

>then do it all again to get another window with the file destination

>then click the file you want to move, drag it over to the second window, and let go

Wow, so much less effort than typing a few words

>>16789921

>Most kids will gldly hammer away and sometimes figure out something that sounds kinda fun, adults tend to get nervous and not play unless they already know how or have an instructor.

I guess I'm a manchild then.

>>16789921

>Wow, so much less effort than typing a few words

Just put common folders or roots under favourites.

>>16789921

>>move mouse over to start menu and click

>>then move over to file explorer and click

Maybe in the past but in fresh windows installs explorer is pinned to the task bar by default.

>>16789935

Just make aliases for common folders

>>16789936