57af23 No.16727805
Earthbound is overrated but doesn't suck.
Literally everything about it and the drama surrounding it are because Undertale was a thing, and the only issue people have with it is that the fans are intolerable as a result. The game itself became the target of fakes who latched onto it despite never playing it, basically hipsters who display retarded fear grimace smiles in every picture, but aside from that, aside from ALL OF THAT, the game is rather decent, has a fairly unique charm about it and a premise and setting hardly ever used in pretty much any game.
So, how the fuck does this reconcile? At what point does the meme go away, and why exactly does a fandom of something ruin the shit out of your enjoyment of something? It's basically like anti-marketing. It's happened to other games as well. Hobbies and so on. Even non-communal hobbies. This is an issue that's so common it's never really talked about. How the fuck do you combat this? How do you make it go away?
When in fuck are we going to just have a game, and not have it ruined by a bunch of shitters? I'm kinda mad. It's burning my soul, man.
____________________________
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c5fdc8 No.16727815
>>16727805
>How the fuck do you combat this? How do you make it go away?
Careful anon, wouldn't want to go full supreme gentleman over videogames.
Unless you want to make a video game your wife, in which case it would be less embarrassing.
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57af23 No.16727823
>>16727815
I mean like disaster prevention, not trying to sew together the giblets of a woodchipper'd man.
How the fuck do you futureproof the future when it comes to this shit? What's the right attitude or set of words to dispel emerging hobby invasion autism?
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163d5e No.16727838
>When in fuck are we going to just have a game, and not have it ruined by a bunch of shitters? I'm kinda mad. It's burning my soul, man.
Now, I'm not advocating violence, but it's been alleged that when someone in minecraft griefs you, you craft a diamond sword and mash M1 until he falls down. You can also obtain a bow and some arrows and give them an enchanting of speed, that way you can pick 'em off from a distance.
Good luck, anon!
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0b0d92 No.16727856
Earthbound was never good regardless. Unique, but not good. The only thing it has going for it is "wackiness", because other than that it is a bog standard JRPG made in the time when JRPGs were evolving.
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57af23 No.16727868
>>16727838
Yeah about that, with all the fucking free marketing with everyone doing let's plays of the fucking game, when people me actually decided to start up Minecraft years later just to try it, it turns out it's basically a bunch of boring shit. People overmarketing games is also an issue. That whole community is a bunch of incestual Youtube party orgy cancer too.
Also Terraria is better, but that's not saying much since the whole genre is pretty wispy and boring. Who cares if you can make a castle or lava traps or whatever if ultimately the world you're in is constantly and utterly peaceful and unantagonistic unless you enter a cave and you trigger a simple enemy AI into attacking you by proximity. I want asshole bandits to raid my fucking castle, foolishly set off my traps so I can laugh for a moment, and then fucking LEARN.
In those games, after you figure out a set of actions the game is essentially beaten, it's boring.
>>16727856
For it's time, yes, but as time went on and trends changed, and shit started to dry the fuck up around 2008, people looked back, saw this game, and it stood out because it had humor or a percieved uniqueness, making it a "cult classic", that's how they form.
As a result, it was bog standard amoung it's peers, but to a burgeoning gamer on the net, it doesn't have that context and doesn't have to compete, so other qualities are highlighted. SINCE it was bog-standard, it's defining aspects stood out.
It stood out because it was "quirky". That's literally all it takes most of the time.
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c5fdc8 No.16727877
>>16727823
Sorry anon, but nobody can help you there.
Toby Fox tried a few sympathetic tweets that basically said "Please don't give me a autistic undying fandom", so we know that appealing people to not be autistic won't work.
Yes I realize he gave up himself and appealed to his fans by making a goat homosexual in his next game, but that's not for today.
Maybe you can figure out what to do yourself. What hasn't been tried yet?
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ae6f83 No.16727885
>>16727868
Most kids these days treat watching people play games on YT/Twitch as more important than themselves playing games.
>>16727823
>What's the right attitude or set of words to dispel emerging hobby invasion autism?
Removing (((merchants))).
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57af23 No.16727913
>>16727877
I don't blame him, his game's basically autismbux incarnate and his only shot at escaping the wagefuck nightmare.
It was a smart move, brilliant, even. Surely, when he completes Deltarune, we won't all die in the autismpocolypse and mercy will be prevalent.
WE WILL LEAVE BEHIND A LEGACY OF FUCKING RETARDATION PLEASE GOD HAVE M E R C Y
>>16727885
The merchant thing is more of a long term fix when we require short term solutions and common sense fixes before that can even really start.
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57af23 No.16727935
>>16727877
Asking nicely doesn't work, ignoring is only a bandage on a gaping wound, asking normally doesn't work, asking agressively doesn't work, pleading doesn't work, begging only turns them on and so on.
The only thing I can think of is to make sure the subject doesn't catch the AIDS GAY in the first place.
How? Unknown. That's why we're here. Perhaps we should observe cases where the gay fandom shit didn't spread, but looking for an absence is like looking for negative space in a busy photograph.
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9ad48b No.16727950
Game is a Dragon Quest clone with an unique setting. Gameplay itself is bland and even games like DQ3 on the NES with the class system is a better game. Games like FF4-6, CT, SMRPG, Seiken Densetsu 3, ToP are all far better games.
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c4dff2 No.16727955
>>16727877
>make game pandering to tumblr and their shit
>be surprised when you gather a tumblr audience
Faggot Jew isn't exactly smart.
The retard behind Homostuck could have warned him about the perils of pandering to the wrong crowd.
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0863f1 No.16727977
>>16727950
>ToP
For some reason I can never remain interested in that game. I always get to just after the part where you sneak into that castle with the magic carpet and stop those guys from assassinating that prince and then I lose interest.
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57af23 No.16727979
>>16727955
From what I observed, the Deltarune release actually broke up the fans considerably.
The Undertale fans actually have pillars that were toppled by this.
One was the tumblr ask blogs and comics, the artists JUMPED on Deltarune's dick, and started making loads of comics about it despite their fanbase being there for Undertale alone. People dropped off there.
Next was the fact that several ongoing comics got shitcanned due to the suprise release, and will now never be finished, because the artists moved on in the middle. Next is that the scarcity of the content of the demo actually devolved the fanbase into sex chatterers, there are basically no relationships or "what ifs" to elaborate on since the characters have very simple arcs and no depth as of now. Ralsei is super gay, the dino chick is a bruiser who grows up but not much and the hero has that whole heart thing but otherwise has no hook. The cast of characters lives on flair alone.
I'd even say that Toby actually disarmed his own fanbase for the time being. When Deltarune releases, they might not even be AS BAD as the Undertale shit was. Maybe it's my optimism or maybe i'm just drunk, but it's useful data.
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19ebef No.16727980
>Earthbound is overrated but doesn't suck
Yes it does. Earthbound is pozzed trash and easily the most piss poor excuse for an RPG that exists on the SNES. The gameplay is minimal and fucking boring, the plot is wafer-thin "boy fulfills prophecy and defeats evil" garbage, and hipsters only like it because it's "quirky" and breaks the fourth wall.
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57af23 No.16727985
>>16727980
That's your disgust of the fanbase talking, tempered by years of fighting them and telling them to fuck off. That's not a talk of someone who actually has experience with the game, just it's worst fans.
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19ebef No.16728002
>>16727985
>Your opinion doesn't match up with mine so therefore you never played the game
Fuck off retard. I used to play Earthbound religiously. I rented this game all the time as a kid trying to beat it and explore the world. I beat the hipsters to the hype since I knew about it before it was in Smash 64 and couldn't understand why they would put an obscure character like Ness in a fighting game with Mario. By the time I grew up I actually realized what an incredibly shitty game it was. I regret not spending my allowance money on more worthwhile game rentals like DKC2 or Earthworm Jim.
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8abba8 No.16728030
>>16727868
>when people me actually decided to start up Minecraft years later just to try it, it turns out it's basically a bunch of boring shit.
Same here. I must have clocked 4 or 5 hours on Minecraft at most trying to get into it, more than half of these on my phone while commuting or waiting in lines since I found the game just too damn boring and insufferable to waste my free time playing it at home on my desktop. Anyways I couldn't get into it at all.
Since it's basically virtual lego bricks, I understand how it might appeal to literal autists who build very impressive shit with it, like that one who spent over a year building a functional calculator with complete working circuitry. But I can't understand the phenomenon it became among kids and even lots of normalfags.
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c4dff2 No.16728074
>>16727979
It will be as bad as Undertale, likely even worse. Homostuck guy was actively trying to drive the fans away both by insulting them and sabotaging his own story in ways he thought wouldn't like and they still stuck to him like festering shit, and kept following him once he moved onto other projects.
Moral of the story is not to have furry or gay characters.
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c4dff2 No.16728094
>>16728030
>But I can't understand the phenomenon it became among kids and even lots of normalfags.
Kids are easy, I liked to play with Lego when I was younger and build all kinds of shit. It's simple to understand why a virtual Not-Lego playset, with crafting, survival, exploration and monsters would draw in kids.
As for normalfags, they're soulless golems and will play whatever YouTube celebrities tell them to play. They have no capacity to form likes and dislikes on their own and take their cues from artificial, manufactured mainstream opinions.
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6f42c1 No.16728398
>>16727955
>Pedostuck
>not the reason Tumblr went from "gay blogging site" to "pozhole"
5
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9ad48b No.16728498
>>16727950
I forgot to list Lufia 2 and Star Ocean on that better than EB list. EB is not a bad game but it is overrated as fuck. I would rate EB on pair with Lufia 1, BoF 1/2 and Secret of Mana (a good game with several flaws just like EB)
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01378b No.16729142
The problem is that there is a headless movement of cancerous tumblr growth that latches onto anything that has certain properties that aren't even bad in themselves, just seem to attract those kind of faggots.
Idealizations, a bit of melodrama and a bit of being whimsical and/or being classy is what usually drags the niggers to the work. Those are not bad traits in themselves, and are used in a lot of things that normal people love, but have the tendency to make those people feel safe.
>Idelizations
They don't have to deal with the ugly side of humanity, meaning that they cannot see the reflections of their flaws in the characters. So they will latch on for example to innocent things like Sailor Moon or Cardcaptor Sakura.
>Melodramatic
Gives them illusion of being deep, and makes them feel cultured.
>Whimsical
Appeals to their childish way of thinking and makes them feel safe from complexity.
>Classy
Appeals to their fantasy of being "cool" this is why those faggots ruined steampunk
None of those is bad on its own, none of those is bad even when they are pulled together. Good art can be idealized, melodramatic, whimsical and classy at the same time Cardcaptor Sakura that was mentioned for example, but it will always bring about faggots.
To stop art that has those qualities is fucking ridiculous, but it will always make gigantic fucking asshats latch onto it. That isn't a problem in itself, but due to the rise of Tumblr an ugly culture that promotes the faggotry and lets them organize into groups has appeared. It is like a fantasy horde that goes into innocent lands and burns everything to the ground, corrupting everything they touch into something horrible.
There is no way of stopping them from latching onto those things, even killing them would do nothing as new faggots would just appear. The only way that this problem would be fixed is to destroy the very culture that breeds them.
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2623c6 No.16729184
Any easily accesible cultural piece that shows even a sliver of competence will always attract, slowly but surely, poeple whose only desire is to flaunt their knowledge of it as a social accomplishment.
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3f4d19 No.16730097
Just play video games and stop fucking whining about people you don't like enjoying something you do like. You don't need to combat it or make it go away. Just play the video game.
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682cc8 No.16730173
>doesn't suck
It kind of does, to be honest. The inventory system is one of the worst I've ever encountered in an RPG, you are constantly managing the issue of not being to carry all the shit you pick up.
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682cc8 No.16730185
>>16727950
Tales of Phantasia (SNES) is pretty bad, I'd put it at about the same level as Earthbound.
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162103 No.16730194
>When in fuck are we going to just have a game, and not have it ruined by a bunch of shitters? I'm kinda mad. It's burning my soul, man.
Does Doom count? After Brutal Doom came out it basically split the community in half, with a mixture of autistic purists and proto-SJWs on one side and guys who didn't really care along with new casuals who only started playing because of BD on the other. Even after all of that and the ZDoom forums becoming an overmoderated hell hole, the community still goes strong and even continues to produce enjoyable mods. As far as I can tell, shitters tried their best and failed, probably because Doom is so easy and fun to make mods for.
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9dd6a3 No.16730246
>"x was never good"-posting
>faggots still cant let go of the tumblrtale boogeyman after 4 years
what a nigger tier thread
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561921 No.16730379
>At what point does the meme go away
I could write paragraphs about how Earthbound was doomed by its localization plan, its terrible marketing campaign, how those factors attracted th3 penguin of d00m quirky types, how those fans went on to work on popular internet works such as Homestuck, and how all this ended up with a single fan pouring his heart, soul, sweat and pubes into a game that would rival Earthbound in popularity, only to become the host of the leeches Earthbound's fanbase had turned into over the years. And that single fan's name? Adolf Hitler. But with or without those paragraphs, my point would be the same: Earthbound's fanbase is a very special case, so its practically impossible to know if it'll ever die or if it'll just mutate endlessly
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152d20 No.16730391
>>16730379
I'm curious to know about Earthbound's story if you wouldn't mind doing so
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1fa3fb No.16730405
Earthbound had such acclaim because it's a very unique game, but after Undertale released it got a lot of that fanbase attracted to it.
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1fa3fb No.16730409
>>16730246
Being a contrarian faggot is the way of /v/ :^)
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6f69a2 No.16730430
Toby Fox gets more pussy than any of you fags and now he’s rich
Lol
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b6c13c No.16730432
The key to curing autism is beatings.
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9fcd63 No.16730434
>>16727805
I like the video that was it's the nutshack but every time they say nutshack it plays the sans is ness video
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f56a8b No.16730439
Migratory hipsters that prey on games that can be used for social status will literally always exist, and the only correct option to ignore them.
Or you can be the type of retard who enables them and screams tumblrtale, whatever works for you
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9fcd63 No.16730443
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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f56a8b No.16730450
Oh, and yes even this board has them
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6f69a2 No.16730471
>>16730444
Trips won’t quench your thirst, Toby is a happier and more successful person than anyone here, he’s also a genius musician
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6f69a2 No.16730547
>>16730524
Only one thirsty for Toby cock are cute, creative women
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2af868 No.16730550
Where the fuck is Genesis Poster?
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9dd6a3 No.16730563
>>16730550
i've always been here
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aa7c75 No.16732230
>>16730547
Stop shitposting.
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1cd735 No.16732274
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253026 No.16732284
Earthbound is pozzed hippie garbage that is literally only enjoyed by basement dwelling dope smokers and battery heads.
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57af23 No.16732305
>>16732293
>you commies
Are you the Twin Towers guy? Fucking stealthy, m8. I mean, continue, but there is such a thing as subtlety.
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57af23 No.16732325
>>16732316
The USS Liberty was transporting jet fuel which burned down the Twin Towers, and Winnie the Pooh was the sole perpetrator of Tienanmen Square, all hail the Inept Chinese Government of 1984
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57af23 No.16732333
>>16732329
Fucking knew it, what can I say? Man, small world, huh.
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c3f914 No.16732335
>>16727805
I don't like Earthbound, but I'm fuckin crazy about Mother 3 and have been for ten years. I'm not a old Earthbound fan, but was familiar because my cousin had a copy which he never played and it sat sealed in a box in my grandpa's basement which probably sold for a thousand dollars by now.. Anyway, the series has always been mired by normalfaggots, because of Super Smash Brothers. Nes and Lucas have been known to everyone who played Smash. So basically, nothing has changed. It's still a game series that's called a 'cult phenemonon', despite being overexposed for decades. Just enjoy it because its fun and has great music, not because your part of a secret club or some shit.
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57af23 No.16732340
>>16732329
Sorry, my bad, socialism is gay in all it's forms, commie.
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07eafb No.16732366
>>16732329
Not everyone is a jew lol
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2d806c No.16732381
>>16727913
Will Deltarune have Tem?
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57af23 No.16732384
>>16732381
It already does, though.
She's one of your classmates. She looks at gay demon porn.
God dammit toby stop it with this shit.
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2d806c No.16732392
>>16732384
>gay demon porn.
But that's a good way to get hIVS!
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bcb127 No.16733670
>>16730550
>>16730563
Honest question. What's the connection between Genesis and Undertale? I'm a huge Genesis fan, both Gabriel and Collins era, and I'm disgusted that its associated with that pozzed tumblr shit.
polite sage for off topic.
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57af23 No.16733693
>>16733670
Some depressed dude posted Genisis as an off topic thing (IE "post your depression music guys ironic lol give me attention" shit) and it was so off base that people spammed it, each Undertale thread. It's one of those random ass things that just happens. Deltarune moved it to the Talking Heads because of this gif. (Once in a Lifetime by them to be exact.)
It's basically utterly random, but it's long since a dead meme.
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905a9f No.16737031
>>16727805
>When in fuck are we going to just have a game, and not have it ruined by a bunch of shitters?
About 20 years ago.
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1fa3fb No.16737059
>>16732340
there's a version of that image that actually fits /v/'s background
considering 8chan doesn't really have any boards with that old yellow background, I don't know why more people don't use this
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a54414 No.16737075
>>16727979
Has there been any butthurt from the fanbase over the fact that Deltarune basically calls out Undertale's pacifism message as being naive as fuck?
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fb9e29 No.16737076
>>16732384
>spoiler
But Temmie is basically teh Penguin of DOOM! XD. It kinda makes sense that she would be into that shit.
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ba6bd2 No.16737107
>>16727885
>>16732242
I have my dream game I want to make, and if I ever do it there's going to be a small degree of freedom to customize your character on creation, but no shitskin skin tone options or any shitskin characters in the game. I wouldn't make a huge fuss about it, just enjoy the excuse to do less work and the free publicity I would inevitably get.
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c13884 No.16737167
>>16727877
He courted that fandom in the first place. There is something like a recipe to get autism on board, and past that a recipe to get the worst of the worst autists on board with a fandom. He followed the second.
>>16727868
Terraria and some others do have the invasion events. However, yeah, build autism is just something I have a hard time getting into. I can do it in some events, like I like planning out cities and what not, but actively building things brick by brick tends to wear on me.
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9e5971 No.16737349
>>16727805
Itoi has made it clear that some of Earthbound is drawn from his childhood experiences, specifically Giygas and that story about him walking into a brutal movie. Everything else about it, by his own admission, is exactly what it seems like: A quirky take on (90s) modern Americana with some silly supernatural elements and RPG cliches, blended together for fun.
Faggots like Toby Fox and creepypasta faggots who make spooky romhacks are what tainted the perception of Earthbound as being more existentially horrifying and complex than it ever was. Obnoxious cunts like MatPat only thrive on that dumb shit because "IS NESS SANS?!" gets a billion fucking clicks and instant algorithm sorting to the top of all search results. Not helping shit are people like Vaati vidya, who pass off fanfiction and stolen fan speculation as hard lore facts, which retarded normalfags eat up.
If you want to stop this sort of thing, you'd need to teach normalfags to stop rewarding autistic speculation and theorycrafting and then you need to kick youtube in the dick, because they've been artificially promoting cunts like MatPat for years. He makes shitty meme videos and he's an obnoxious faggot who has severe mental and emotional issues, but he keeps getting free exposure and promotion, despite making cringey clickbait.
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4abded No.16737360
>>16727877
Ralsei isn't gay
He's that one kid that tumblr tried to get to kill himself
Hell that's why it came out on Halloween
That's his (the kid's) birthday
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c01efe No.16737384
>Earthbound is overrated but doesn't suck.
I hate to say it but you can say that about most nintendo 1st party games. I would say there are a couple that are good to the point you might want to 100% it but the fanbase will tell you that most nintendo games fall into that catagory. The best advice is to ignore the fanbase and look at the game with critically objective eyes. That mindset allowed me to enjoy more games.
I somehow got the ps4 spiderman game for free thanks to amazon shipping me a game I never ordered. It is an okay game but a few lefist pandering moments really tarnish an otherwise 7/10 game. That said I wouldn't pay more that 20 burgers for it.
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4abded No.16737402
Seriously there are way too many "coincidences" for that not to be the case. It has to be intentional
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090fac No.16737420
>>16737384
Not really. You could say that about literally any game ever.
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c5cf87 No.16737453
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73c3e9 No.16737458
>>16737420
>implying all fambases are equally shitty
Are you going to tell me that the sonic fanbase isn't as bad as kojimafags? Smashfags vs dwarf fort autists? MLP autists vs good ol' weebs? All fanbases are bias by nature but some fanbases are more insufferable than others. Sadly nintendo fans have crossed that line when we are talking about normalfags. Over a decade ago you could say otherwise due to the simple fact that nintendo fans saw the e-reader as a scam, but now we see amiibos being lauded as an amazing thing by fans.
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249122 No.16737463
>>16733693
>implying it wasn't benoit this time
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73c3e9 No.16737486
>>16737463
>WWE
Fuck those wildlife faggots.
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249122 No.16737501
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73c3e9 No.16737518
>>16737501
>not keeping the world wrestling federation in your heart
Pls Cole.
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9dd6a3 No.16737634
>>16733693
>being that wrong about the origin of genesisposting
>one gif means talkingheadsposting took off in anyway
ok retard
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9dd6a3 No.16737641
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23ec26 No.16737648
>>16737641
Man he really is under tall.
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9dd6a3 No.16737657
>>16737648
chris benoit was also undertall
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c3392a No.16737666
YOU!! FUCKING!! NIGGERS!!!!!!!
YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT MOTHER'S 30TH ANNIVERSARY WAS YESTERDAY AND NONE OF YOU FAGGOTS REMEMBERED???
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61f9f7 No.16737675
The music in undertale isn't that great, and I honestly don't think Toby is all that great at actually PRODUCING music; The entire game sounded like a grab bag of soundfonts with no tonal consistency.
His compositions are also ehh; The songs are catchy, but rely heavily on motifs, and deltarune seems to be repeating that. Then again, I'm a faggot with a hard-on for Kota Hoshino and the evergrace soundtrack, so what do I know
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2bf1e6 No.16737679
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9dd6a3 No.16737684
>>16737675
I like his compositions but i do have to agree that his actual producing skills are completely awful, he really needs to settle down on a single kind of sound instead of being all over the place with 20 different soundfonts that don't work together.
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09a5d5 No.16737697
>>16737666
No one here has actually played the Mother series, just Undertale and Deltarune, then watched a let's play of earthbound by their favorite youtuber and called it a day.
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2b23cf No.16737705
>>16737666
YOU!! FUCKING!! NIGGERS!!!!!!!
YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT SATAN GOT THE INFERNAL TRIPS TODAY AND NONE OF YOU FAGGOTS CHECKED THEM???
earthbound is a mediocre jrpg
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411903 No.16738411
>>16727805
>Literally everything about it and the drama surrounding it are because Undertale was a thing
Did you start using the internet in 2015?
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e1cf65 No.16738430
>/v/ can't like a classic game because Tumblr ripped it off and made a game with an infamous fanbase
That really is 13 year old brain retardation
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1d567b No.16738439
>>16737697
I gave up halfway in each game and don't care about anniversaries in particular since they're just cash grabs.
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cf141c No.16739267
>>16738430
Fuck you anon, I like Undertale but I can still be pissed off at tumblr and faggots destroying its reputation. There are a shit ton of anons who like Undertale as well, Undertale is probably one of the most divisive games on /v/ but it isn't universally hated.
/v/ isn't one person
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3f0c73 No.16739324
>>16738430
Earthbound is my personal GOAT game, with me being ok with the other 2 at least.
I can respect people not liking it as much as me but man I always get a kick out of the dumbasses on here who seem to spew shit from their mouth while talking about how much they dislike these games.
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19ebef No.16739442
>>16739324
>Earthbound is my personal GOAT game
It's okay to be retarded, Anon.
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19ebef No.16739447
>>16737666
Sorry Satan I only play good games :^)
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c1f6b7 No.16739793
>>16727815
Ikaruga my waifu, everyone back off
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5b208e No.16739807
>>16739267
>getting this mad over a shitty game
"Other people like it" is not an argument.
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f56a8b No.16754909
>>16739807
You realize that means you can't use tumblrites as a justification to bitch about it either, right?
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29ed7e No.16754915
>>16730097
This is /v/ though
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d47a31 No.16755290
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
There are few things that are truly badass.
There's me, the Benoitposter, the Imageboard badass.
Then there's the Genesis Posters. MMMMmmm, you don't wanna mess with them.
Then there's pajeet joe, the huenigger, the niggerpill poster.
And there are those who defend /v/ from the tumblrtale boogeyman.
And man, they're bad to the bone.
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0a72ba No.16755344
>>16739267
>tumblr and faggots ruined tumblr and faggots: the game
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c8201f No.16755357
>>16754909
Did I mention tumblr in my post? It's a shit game regardless of who likes it and doesn't like it.
Go back to reddit if you don't like being called out for your shit taste.
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f56a8b No.16755402
>>16755357
Yeah, but that's the majority of what people have an issue with. Hell a lot of what people say is in the game is just derived from fan* works.
Fan in this context means social grifter *
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c8201f No.16755432
>>16755402
What is with you and using what other's think to try to prove or disprove something?
My main critism is with the game not the fans. Don't they teach reading comprehension in schools anymore?
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f56a8b No.16755447
>>16755432
Because the issue is people are being dishonest about the game based on secondary sources, and I care about that.
Because enabling that faggotry has had genuine and markable damage to the art and practice of game design. and because enabling that shit sustains that faggotry.
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2d806c No.16755450
>>16727805
How can skeletons even bleed or have boners?
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a95413 No.16755455
>>16728398
Homestuck is not pedophilia.
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4dfe80 No.16755497
>>16739267
Look I like undertale and deltarune aswell but theyre not great games, to me they're just great experience as in a slightly humorous quirky roleplay session and music show, in term of gameplay I think you could learn programming within a year and probably create something more intricate and interesting than what it has to offer.
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3c147c No.16755522
>>16727805
Anyone has that Scatman Sans mashup?
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3fece5 No.16755583
>>16727805
>And why exactly does a fandom of something ruin the shit out of your enjoyment of something?
Because you're letting your autism get the est of you.
>How the fuck do you combat this? How do you make it go away?
By not going on the forums where the shitty part of the fanbase exists, enjoying the game by yourself, and not talking about said game with anyone.
>When in fuck are we going to just have a game, and not have it ruined by a bunch of shitters?
The shitters can't ruin it if you do the above.
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c057dc No.16755694
>>16727805
Why do you care about the opinions of unkowns so much that it ruins games for you?
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e78599 No.16755777
>>16727877
>Toby Fox
>sympathetic
the man ought to kill himself to creating Undertale.
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07eafb No.16755800
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249122 No.16755811
>>16755777
>the man ought to kill himself to creating Undertale.
wew
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249122 No.16755815
>all these dubs in this thread that aren't checked
I don't think you can, half the thread is dubs.
polite sage for off topic
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d47a31 No.16755824
>>16755777
trips of seething
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4dfe80 No.16755826
>>16755777
It sure smells of summer angst trying to fit in by being contrarian here.
Bet you're underaged too.
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5d1392 No.16756042
Like whatever you want to like. If you let other people not liking what you like make you like what you like less you're mentally deficient and basically an NPC. If people saying something you like sucks, just fucking ignore them.
Fallout 3 > Fallout NV > Fallout 4
Famicom wars >Fire emblem
Star ocean > tales series
GTA VC>GTA SA> GTA 4> GTA 3> all the others
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249122 No.16756053
>>16756042
>all others
>not >all others > slamming your head against a wall > 5
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5d1392 No.16756058
>>16756053
>even mentioning 5
nigga please.
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249122 No.16756066
>>16756058
gotta put it in perspective just how shit it is
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6a2288 No.16756067
Nothing you can do but look for the good nuggets of OC and discussion in the mountain of shit
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5d1392 No.16756076
>>16756066
>an do but look for the good nuggets of OC and discussion in the mountain of shit
Good look explaining preference here.
I enjoyed both Fallout 3 and New Vegas but atmosphere wise Fallout 3 edged it out for me.
GTA VC is technically inferior to GTA SA but the overall presentation was superior and that's why I regard it more highly overall.
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57af23 No.16756313
>>16755450
Monsters are made of dust, and Sans is specifically a skeleton, which is suspect, since he's humanlike in a place of monsters. On top of that, Sans and Papyrus were stated to just show up one day with no one knowing who they are.
There's corpses in the underground. The coffins at the end only really held the human souls and there are graves all around the game world.
So, Sans and Papyrus being ressurected humans isn't out of the question. Magic takes the form of the emotions and feelings of the monsters, for communication and it's practically like breathing for them, so Sans, heavily wounded, likely recalled bleeding as a human and his magic made him "Bleed" as a result.
Sans specifically acts as an adult, and Papyrus acts as a child, so it stands to reason that people of those temperaments were resurrected, at those possible age groups. Gaster may be the father of both, and ressurected both, or Sans was already there and ressurected Papyrus more recently. Sans could possibly be anywhere between hundreds or thousands of years old given his combat skills and knowledge. There was specifically a child that was knowledgable, so he could have been resurrected way back when that child was killed.
The original human obviously can't be brought back, but a new soul, with a corpse as a basis, could likely pick up old memories.
On top of this, the reason they "showed up out of nowhere" is likely because Gaster's existance was erased, and he is directly responsible for their existance, which means father relation, not brother. All of this shit isn't new either, not pulling this shit out of my ass, people have actually theorycrafted this shit
And as for boners, that was already in the porn. The answer is
LIGHTSABER DICKS BECAUSE FUCK YOU WE GOTTA MAKE THESE SKELEBROS FUCK EACHOTHER SOMEHOW
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0f4661 No.16756336
>>16756313
Sans (and by extension Papyrus) are heavily implied to not originally be from the Underground, first of all a few lines of San's dialogue:
>i gave up trying to go back a long time ago.
&
>your journey's almost over, huh? you must really wanna go home. hey. i know the feeling, buddo.
The one of Riverman's lines:
>Tra la la. Beware of the man who came from the other world.
One of Papyrus's lines, regarding Sans's room:
>HIS ROOM IS… IT'S LIKE ANOTHER WORLD! A WORLD WHERE THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO VACUUM. YOU'RE BEST STAYING AWAY FROM THAT STRANGE PLACE.
Theres lines from the rabbit shopkeeper implying the skeleton bros just came out of nowhere:
>And if you're bored, you can sit outside and watch those wacky skeletons do their thing. There's two of 'em… Brothers, I think.They just showed up one day and… asserted themselves.
Finally, his workshop. Other than the mysterious blueprint and covered up machine, theres:
>(There's a photo album inside the drawer.) (There are photos of Sans with a lot of people you don't recognize.) (He looks happy.)
And most notably, if you try to access this photo album after talking to the clam girl who tells you about her neighbour's kid Suzy, you get this instead:
> (There are photos of… Huh?) (A card is sticking out from the back flap of the binder.) (It's a poorly drawn picture of three smiling people.) (Written on it…) "don't forget."
It all pretty clearly is building up at that UT Sans and DR Sans are the same person, not alternate universe counterparts.
At some point in Deltarune Sans and Papyrus are going to get warped into the UT world.
Also the door to San's room in UT is the same as the fast travel doors in Deltarune.
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0f4661 No.16756342
>>16756313
Also, unrelated:
>LIGHTSABER DICKS BECAUSE FUCK YOU WE GOTTA MAKE THESE SKELEBROS FUCK EACHOTHER SOMEHOW
Why the fuck does everybody want to fuck the skeletons. Fucking why. I cannot comprehend.
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249122 No.16756345
>>16756342
What's even worse is that sans is the worst piece of shit addition toby fox ever decided to shovel into the game. Even more so than anime lizard.
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57af23 No.16756354
>>16756342
Sexual attraction by familiarity and idolization.
It's a symptom of the modern era where porn is readily available. People make porn of popular characters and get hits, this is copied by others. Since Sans and Papyrus are basically main characters in the story, Papyrus especially since he's always on your phone to call, and Sans because of his overall story importance and backstory, the two are basically the true secondary main characters of Undertale, especially since they're the one with the biggest first impression outside of Toriel's area, and continue to have presence through each area.
Sans and Papyrus also have funny guy personalities, with both having aura of mystery surrounding their existence, reinforced by the Gaster saga of meta lore where they're connected with an even more mysterious character who is vaguely antagonistic or responsible for the game's events.
So people want to fuck them, or at least will jack off to porn OF them. In these minds, they're not jacking off to animate skeletons, they're jacking off to Sans and Papyrus. So there isn't a necrophilia disconnect that happens in this case.
It's pretty simple. People are fucking perverted. Every single goddamned human being has the capacity and the will.
The human sex drive is indiscriminate and prevalent.
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249122 No.16756361
>>16756336
>At some point in Deltarune Sans and Papyrus are going to get warped into the UT world.
Good, he can fuck right on off, it's full.
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57af23 No.16756367
>>16756342
Also as an addendum, people wanted to fuck the flower.
people wanted
to fuck
the flower.
Skeletons are at least closer to human, my man.
>>16756362
In excess, NoFap fucks your head up just like jacking every day does. But striving to keep your dick dry for a week, or two, won't hurt you and will improve your mood and outlook.
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249122 No.16756369
>>16756362
>nofapfag ruins another thread
I say ruin, but it's the people who inflate what you're saying into some bogyman that ruin it.
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0f4661 No.16756375
>>16756354
>>16756367
Im not even talking from a body-type standpoint though.
To me Sans and Papyrus's personalities just radiate an anti-sexy aura. Especially Papyrus.
I just literally cannot comprehend anybody wanting to fuck them. Even wanting to fuck Flowey is more slightly understandable to me than wanting to fuck the skeletons.
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8d8e56 No.16756377
>>16756362
Go back to cuckchan
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57af23 No.16756382
>>16756375
Sans
>Oh he's lazy but he has a BAAAAAD side and a secret past he has regrets about (bad boy with issues I can fix his sadness blah blah blah)
Papyrus
>Oh he's adorable! I bet I could teach him how sex works UwU (taking advantage of naivety/building a relationship with a person that's easy to please with no drama)
Flowey
>He's devious, wold tease and abuse and would likely fuck me in ways that involve bondage, tentacles and hardcore sex and where I have no control (50 Shades of Grey masochism attraction)
All of them are basic as fuck teen girl fetishes. Any wonder it got a lot of stuff from tumblr?
And suprisingly, the skeleboners have a shitload of incest porn in latino countries, but with changed personalities courtesy of the Alternate Universe autism thing. I know YOU wouldn't bang any one of them, but they're really, REALLY normalfag when it comes to fetishism, while you probably crave something more realistic since you have more experience with people.
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c30531 No.16756390
>>16756362
Disgusting.
Not at you anon but the effects and the brain. What the fuck is that?
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c30531 No.16756392
>>16756367
Quick question, why does nofap hurt you? Don't see the problem with it.
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c30531 No.16756394
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249122 No.16756396
>>16756374
It's honestly not that big a problem, just be a little bit more cautious, anons are starting to recognize your images, and avatarfagging is super fucking gay.
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18508a No.16756400
>>16756394
You can't retroactively sage you fucking idiot.
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57af23 No.16756411
>>16756392
The most widespread thing is that fapping semi-regularly prevents prostate cancer. That's not every day, that's more like weekly or bi-monthly at least. Next is irritability, clouded thoughts, rash decisions and so on. The sex drive is one hell of a thing, it "drives" you, and if you ignore it or indulge it way too much, you're fucking yourself long term.
HOWEVER, Nofap does work as long as it's not a ridiculous amount of time, a month of none of that is good for you. But beyond that, breaking the streak is actually somewhat healthy in regards to cancer prevention and mood. Then go ahead and try again with Nofap if you feel it's best.
If you jack it every day as an adult, you're fucking yourself over and will face depression. If you don't at least jack it once in a while, you'll fucking blow your top and won't be able to think rationally. You were made/evolved to ejaculate your goddamned penis, people forget that with all this fervor about something that actually promotes moderation, not absolutism.
You have to come to terms with your dick. Do not deny it, but don't oversupply it.
And now, on to undertale
PEOPLE WANT TO FUCK SKELETONS FOR SOME FUCKING REASON.
We have now addressed the issue, let us discuss.
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acdd16 No.16756412
Stop caring so much what other people like and the manner in which they enjoy it, you hipster faggot.
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9e9dc4 No.16756413
>When in fuck are we going to just have a game, and not have it ruined by a bunch of shitters?
when you stop worrying about it. every single thing in this world has at least one person following it making it look bad. as long as you arent the one being an insufferable, retarded, hipster, fanboy about it every waking hour of the day then there is no harm being done. the important thing is identifying retarded fanboys and distancing yourself from them. dont rely on other to determine your enjoyment of things you actually like, its fine to hate the fanbase of something you like but dont let that actually ruin the thing for you because thats worse than being one of those fanboys
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57af23 No.16756419
>>16756413
BUT I LIKE TO TALK ABOUT
V I D E O G A M E S
AS
W E L L
AS
P L A Y T H E M
And one of the more fun things is completing a game and then going and talking to other people about what you LIKE about something, or what you hated, or how something is or isn't. It's not just videogames anymore. You can have fun with more then just the game, it's why we're here, too.
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acdd16 No.16756422
>>16756419
If you're more concerned with the image and culture surrounding a thing than the thing itself, you're a hipster. That's what hipsters do.
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57af23 No.16756423
>>16756422
Nah nigger, I like and enjoy the game and it isn't ruined for me, but I just don't want to talk with fucking faggots. Surely you understand this.
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249122 No.16756424
>>16756422
>he doesn't care about quality of discussion
hey buddy, I think you got the wrong door, cuckchan is 4 blocks down
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acdd16 No.16756427
>>16756423
Why are you visiting faggot forums?
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249122 No.16756429
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9e9dc4 No.16756432
>>16756423
>>16756419
then talk about it with the gay retards on this board and hide the gay posts
or talk to your real life friends about it
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acdd16 No.16756435
>>16756424
lol. Most "disscussion" here. Is people reassuring themselves that they're the coolest kids on the block by finding excuses to hate anything remotely mainstream. 8chan has become that guy who buys an article of clothing, and throws it away a month later because he saw someone else wearing one. It's not about discussion. It's about maintaining some false air of purity and authenticity.
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249122 No.16756441
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428a2b No.16756442
>>16756423
>When in fuck are we going to just have a game, and not have it ruined by a bunch of shitters? I'm kinda mad.
> I like and enjoy the game and it isn't ruined for me
This is just fucking embarrasing. Go play your faggot game if its not bothering you.
Why make this shit thread if it doesnt bother you?
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acdd16 No.16756444
>>16756441
Get thee behind me, hipster
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57af23 No.16756445
>>16756427
You have to dig through the trash to find the gold instead of being a scared faggot who only sticks to one board that is approved by the council of public discourse known as a gated online community.
I don't fear the abyss, I dive straight into it to find something, and if I don't find it, I don't stick around. Communities shift and are mobile, quality discussion can be had ANYWHERE so you must look EVERYWHERE. And knowing that someone is horrible, or that a forum is genuinely horrible is valuable information to throw out in conversation.
I've seen forums surrounding the topic live, die and be reborn elsewhere. Hell, when the last forum I checked "died", the real discussion obviously came here since the stigmas died down, which is why I made this thread. It was a test. And I found quality discussion, compared to elsewhere at least.
Those who dare, will find. Those who do not, will starve. So, how the fuck do we encourage quality autistic discussion over something that has a stigma? That is the driving question. We can't let tumblrettes fucking take EVERYTHING.
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345709 No.16756446
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57af23 No.16756451
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acdd16 No.16756455
>>16756445
Stop worrying so much what Tumblr is doing, retard. They're insane and irrelevant. Who cares?
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57af23 No.16756467
>>16756455
Tumblr had all the art and porn.
most of that art was lesbian fish and yellow lizard lesbians.
the other most of that art was also skeleton porn. I like art.
Also, if it weren't for Toby being a fucking weeb and translating his game into Japanese there would basically only be skeleton porn.
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7ee614 No.16756529
>>16727805
Earthbound is only decent because of the soundtrack and the lovecraftian influence that is shown toward the final boss.
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cac815 No.16756543
Anons let their guard down for once and people are genuinely posting good content and discussion on the undertale series? What do you call both deltarune and undertale? Toby Fox Universe?
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cac815 No.16756546
In all seriousness as a someone who didn't grow up with the snes, I can say that earthbound's setting and characters are wonderfull but the combat and the grindiness is super off-putting. I wish there was a auto-kill hack I could get since the combat is so uninteresting.
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cac815 No.16756550
Undertale introduced me to a lot of great things like the rpg maker game classics and weird obscure games in general, it even recaptured my love for games and for a few hours made me feel no longer lonely. Say what you will on the quality of the game but for me it led to a lot of great things. I mean, I eventually found my way here.
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249122 No.16756581
>>>/v/16756550
> I mean, I eventually found my way here.
bait harder next time if you want more (You)s
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c30531 No.16759166
>>16756400
I was just trying to explain me saging. Oops.
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ea8081 No.16759332
>>16756546
>I wish there was a auto-kill hack I could get since the combat is so uninteresting.
They're called cheats, it already has level auto-killing.
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8f894b No.16772220
>>16737463
>>16737501
>>16737657
Does Chris Jericho like Phil Collins?
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a39a33 No.16772222
>>16756455
I'm confused, this place seems a lot like tumblr, especially if you're defending undertail which is a furfaggot game
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b65f59 No.16772224
>>16727868
>people looked back, saw this game
No, they didn't. All they did was just see Ness in Smash Bros and wondered where he came from. Before Brawl even came out, people were angry as shit at Reggie for outright saying, "You will never get Mother 3 in the states."
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7fde68 No.16772225
>>16737360
Both of the goats are major homos
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3ca38d No.16783151
>>16730430
Toby loves nigger dicks. I can tell you're envious of that.
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bc8d39 No.16783195
>>16772224
Yeah originally Earthbound was expensive as hell and had some really suspect ads, it wasn't popular at the time at all.
Mother 3 was past smash and also had stuff like an announced release pre-cancelation, which probably really helped with the no state side release for the final getting decent controversy.
>>16756546
For every fun trick earthbound has about 100 bland fights. The game from a mechanical point feels stretched.
Its singular gimmick is fun but isn't enough to make such a system good in the slightest.
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a2e367 No.16783199
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a2e367 No.16783205
I love earthbound but it is slightly overrated
Mother 3 On the other hand is my favorite game of all time.
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8e24e7 No.16783206
Can I just say I get WHY it wouldn't but it kinda sucks that Deltarune didn't have any sort of new attack mechanic aside from it all being rolled at once?
Probably doesn't help much that Deltarune aside from the bosses only has one battle theme
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3ca38d No.16783207
>>16783199
>know your cancer filename
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a2e367 No.16783208
>>16783207
I found it on google images didn't look at the website.
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85ff54 No.16783210
>>16783207
How do you know what filenaming conventions Know your meme has?
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3ca38d No.16783212
>>16783210
I was curious where certain cancerous reaction images came from, reverse searched them, and turns out kym has three character filenames that have now become easily identifiable.
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010c1e No.16783213
>>16738430
To be fair, fanbase pollution is a thing, especially if something suddenly becomes tremendously popular at a rate far beyond the norm (IE: jewtube shills with retardedly big and just plain retarded bases, cheap rereleases, etc). Though such cases ought to result more in a "I don't want to interact with the average fan of [X]" reaction and not "[X] is shit because of its fans". Granted, sometimes a game, or work in general, is going to attract those sorts from the word go anyhow (in which case you could say the developers knew exactly what they were doing), and other times the localization or marketing does that to a degree the base game wouldn't and didn't deserve, but you can also have a decent audience just get drowned in cancer after a certain point in time for reasons completely that may not be related to either.
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85ff54 No.16783218
>>16783213
Some times the creator of the work can become polluted by their fanbase as well, especially if they were parital to the pollution in the first place >>16783199
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010c1e No.16783227
>>16783218
Yeah, that's certainly something as well, especially if it leads to creating cases where subsequent works can only be fully enjoyed in a vacuum, should they pander to a certain crowd that hard/deeply.
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b65f59 No.16783229
>>16783213
>but you can also have a decent audience just get drowned in cancer after a certain point in time for reasons completely that may not be related to either.
You're referring to Homestuck, aren't you?
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010c1e No.16783232
>>16783229
Actually no. Haven't even touched that.
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000000 No.16783236
>>16772225
Asriel is the cutest motherfucker in the world. I want to pet him.
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85ff54 No.16783270
>>16783229
That pic pretty much sums it up entirely. Trolls really did ruin it.
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8e24e7 No.16783288
>>16783227
>>16783218
You guys are aware that Hussie vehemently despises the autistic tumblrfaggots and the recent shit is mostly to due with him getting his nads bashed in by everything trying to release hiveswap.
Do people forget that he took like $1000 dollars to have two fags stick their own Original Homestuck Troll into the game only for them to be killed unceremoniously in one page.
Incidentally a gag that happened in Undertale too, only the shitbag that donated tried to collapse the project if he couldn't get his own area which unfortunately screwed up the last section of the main game?
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1fb101 No.16783308
>>16727805
>How the fuck do you combat this? How do you make it go away?
Make it full on 14/88 mode and the usual suspects will give it a wide berth.
Hell with that shield you could have moments of LOLRANDUMB that would normally be right up the tumblrtards fauxgina but none would be around to run with it.
>>16783288
Doesn't matter and most importantly don't care, he catered to them and as such is forever marked.
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9cd6c4 No.16783323
>>16727805
>How the fuck do you combat this? How do you make it go away?
Standard procedure has always been, making the game's fanbase look so toxic and counter-culture-ish that outsiders consider it the next Mein Kampf and fakes and soyboys fear being associated with it.
See, before cuckchan became wojak-reposting heaven thanks to their nip overlord, pepe and most old memes from yesteryear started being used by the same folk that would eventually become the UT/EB faggots. To counter it, the sadfrog was turned into as many vulgar and extremist things as possible, and it scared away tons of pretenders. Pepe pre 2016 is the perfect example of what to do to get people off your intellectual property, then of what NOT to do when you eventually get them off. Since a lot of folk who joined weren't in on the joke, they assumed that the nazi frog wasn't a meme but a real deal, ruining the joke and eventually becoming lazy targets for indoctrination by the Trump campaign manager. Posting a frog today is practically a joke. You need to know when to be crass and when it stops being useful to you.
Another one, I think it was Evolve? Anyhow professional shills tried to garner interest in the game and they were bombarded with dino porn, it crushed their spirit and never recovered from that.
Now, with EB you can't use porn (fakers are disgusting degenerates) and it's hard to make something so wholesome extremist. You need to hit some sort of nerve that fakers can't really recover from. Maybe point out that the entire gang of EB is white or at most asian and that niggers aren't in the game, I don't know. Come up with something, run off the theories and get on their nerves.
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85ff54 No.16783345
>>16783288
>Do people forget that he took like $1000 dollars to have two fags stick their own Original Homestuck Troll into the game only for them to be killed unceremoniously in one page.
I read on a triva section somewhere that they didn't care if there character were put in or not, they just wanted to support the game.
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873830 No.16783420
>>16783206
The theme is catchy as all hell though
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35597f No.16783437
>>16783229
I always found Homestuck boring, couldn't get past Problem Sleuth because of how boring the puns were (they really work better in a IB thread), i cant say that it was good at some point.
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05a14d No.16783619
>Earthbound is overrated but doesn't suck
Wrong
>Literally everything about it and the drama surrounding it are because Undertale was a thing
No, it was always overrated garbage that people were only attached to because it was slightly rare
>and the only issue people have with it is that the fans are intolerable as a result
No, the game itself is as technical as roughly dragon quest 2 besides 1 gimmick with the ticking HP bar when that series already made the revolutionary for the genre 3 a long time ago + enhanced ports on the SNES and GB which are arguably better on top. and DQ4 and 5 which were also both amazing and massively loved at least 2 years before earthbounds Japanese release.
Earthbound is a basic as fuck RPG for people who can barely play them with the only selling points being at some point you can see KKK niggers and maybe a fetus in the final boss who you beat by just pressing pray over and over after a phase 1 that's easier then the random encounters outside.
OP, you absolute fucking retard, if you want to like the game, like it all you want but seriously you absolute cretin don't try and pretend others not liking your product is purely due to single factors that clearly couldn't have been the reason it had piss poor sales at the time. Don't try and push it as if one outside factor being removed suddenly would make people want to play your game when even when standing on its own it's a below average product with a gimmick when there were many much higher quality products right next to it and for less at the time.
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5c66fe No.16783647
>>16783619
Why'd you post so many pictures of Goku?
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3ca38d No.16783691
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e48b24 No.16783835
>>16783691
quit pretending to get trolled
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3ca38d No.16784308
>>16783835
That image signifies laughter, anon.
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822d55 No.16784324
>>16784308
i dunno last i heard that wide-mouthed expression was one of terror
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68b845 No.16784360
Earthbound is the Big Bang Theory of video games.
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822d55 No.16784370
>>16784360
Naw, Oblivion is the bazinga theory considering how recent, popular, and mediocre it is. Earthbound is more like Dr Who since people you can't stand have latched onto it and made new shittier attempts at it like YIIKes.
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05a14d No.16784372
>>16783647
It's such a fucking bad joke but I always chuckle from it.
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c636ca No.16784599
if there was a mother 4, what the fuck would it even be like? how do you follow up on 3?
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d58e00 No.16784633
>>16727805
It's fucking 30 years old. Play it or don't play it, for yourself and stop thinking about the people that may like it. The fans of any given franchise do not own that franchise and if you like the game too there is usually still no reason to seek communication with them. If you can't just play a game that is that old without thinking about the things that were culturally attached to it subsequently of its hayday that's purely your fault. If I had to judge everything by its fanbase, hell, there wouldn't be anything left in the world that I would still like.
Personally, I haven't played any of the Mother games yet. Heard the gameplay/combat can be quite a chore but the premise is interesting. It's definitely on my list but not very high up.
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