/v/ - Video Games

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>>16595865

I played Fallen Earth for a while and had a lot of fun with it. There was one reputation grinding mission area near one of the starting areas and if you spent a little bit of time doing repeatable missions you could get the NPC's special war club. It was one of the maori shark-tooth clubs and for some reason, it was better than 99% of the weapons you could find, buy, or build by a wide margin. Kept that thing with me for a long time past that early game section, and it was still outclassing anything I was finding deeper into the world.

>>16595772

Wildstar

>released as a sub only mmo in 2014 with constant server/network failures and a shit ton of bugs with long level grinding.

>originally was heavily raid focused while also having one of the hardest raid attunements in the genre.

>later tried to cater towards the non-raider demographic but failed because the learning curve was too steep for most.

>once you've got fully decked out in raiding gear there was little to do other then housing and crafting.

>switched to a free to play model to attract more people but ended up losing a large chunk of hardcore players.

>finally decided to fix up some shit after getting swarmed by the f2p noobs just joining.

>Arcterra region is released but by then it was too late. Most of the players left with only a few stragglers remaining.

>Dev on forum states in a post on the official forums that there will be no further content outside of Arcterra until they finally fix everything up.

>primal matrix is released and nearly everyone hates it. Some long standing issues were finally fixed though but a good amount weren't.

>more players leave the game, making the 2 hubs in the game ghost towns now..

>carbine decides to pull the plug and shut down the game.

>players and developers throw a huge party with lore explanations as to why the world is ending through realm broadcasts.

<be me and skip party cause you decided your only character should 'die' due to alcohol poisoning alone in their housing plot.

<find out the shutdown party held one the largest uptick in players.

<read online that the reason everything got destroyed was because The Caretaker accidentally set off a bomb.

I had fun times playing the game though, so I don't regret playing it.

>>16596161

I heard the company was actually bought by gooks years ago.

>>16596161

That's another one. I played from 2015 to 2017 almost every day, and I got burnt out but could never really get back into it, since every time I check what has changed since, it''s terrible decisions, or new skins, and most of the new content is just "Wormholes, but angrier" and "Incursions, but red instead of green!".

Phantasy star online.

Every sequal has been disappointing weebshit.

>>16596163

It got bought by tencent

>>16596177

Actually, it got bought out by the Koreans that run Black Desert Online, Pearl Abyss and they seem to be unrelated to Tencent, aside from being even bigger jews than Tencent.

>>16595871

this is mine too. how a game with this good of a crafting system, this good of a faction system and this good of a class system failed speaks volumes to how unbelievably incompetent SOE really was

>>16595772

MapleStory. (Okay, the game was always bad, but it got worse.)

>start off with 4 distinct classes

>shit ton of grinding

>also had party quests which encouraged playing with others

>had a heavy social aspect because this and wait times for traveling to far regions

>updates would add 3rd/4th job skills at higher levels which slowly unbalanced the game

>also included micro-transactions for items which, while not required, made the game much easier to play

<don't worry goy, you can still play without 4 hours of 2x exp, or pets that heal/loot for you (that expire in 90 days from purchase)

>gradually added more party quests to make leveling easier, but deprecated older ones which encouraged more team play

>after a few years of just 4 classes Nexon added pirate class

<it just re-branded the existing classes while making them noticeably weaker (especially at later levels)

>added cygnus knights which were, again, a re-brand of existing classes

>they were stronger for the early levels, but had a much lower max level than the original classes

>this meant in the late-game the original class was still stronger

>getting max level for the original classes took years of grind, so players liked this at first

<interest dies off as players realize how pointless they are

>eventually add more classes which are overpowered compared to the original classes

>old classes get buffs

>this begins a cycle of add new over-powered classes, buff old ones

<new features are time-gated without microtransactions

<even new class skills were pay-walled (this was removed after a few years)

>rinse & repeat forever

>damage cap has increased multiple times to compensate for exponential power growth

>damage at high levels used to be in the thousands

>cap of 99,999 was only reachable using certain skills with cooldowns

<damage is now close to the billions

<anyone can reach damage cap if they spend enough real money on item power-ups

It's actually amazing to see how much this game changed. The only resemblance between old and current versions of the game is appearance. Mechanically, there's no similarity. Every skill, even for older classes, has been revamped or replaced. Maps were completely reworked. Playing several private servers on and off since Big Bang made me realize there wasn't anything good about old Maple aside from the fun memories I had. I am curious how long Nexon will survive on their current whales. MapleStory has been a ghost town for a while now.

>>16596128

>Wildstar

Having an absolutely braindead leveling treadmill that let you just skip all of the challenging dungeons on the way to cap was the dumbest idea. You need to force people to group early in a game like that .

>>16595772

RIP Shores of Hazeron

>>16596515

I hate it when power creep hits like a motherfucker

Runescape

and don't pretend OSRS is good, it's shit too, maybe even worse. I mean people are throwing gay pride parades, fighting mudcrabs, and comitting acts with elves horrific enough to terrify Zamorak

>spiral knights

>cute 4 player PvE experience with 30 levels to go through per run

>fun enough, but kind of lacking in content

>level 30 teases this big expansion where you enter the core of the planet and go through at least another tier of levels

>it never happens

>for almost 7 years

>the only updates the game gets are seasonal event skins

>the only big updates the game got, nearly four years ago was a pet system that only served to limit the levels you'll encounter(since the pets fed on the material that was used to select the type/element of level to be generated tommorrow), a DLC set of levels and a shitty PvP mode that served to show how terrible the netcode of the game was, in addition to being dominated by P2W niggers who used the DLC weapons

Ragnarok Online Private Servers

>>16595772

Ragnarok Online 2 lol jk it was shit from the word go although i did play the first version a decade ago and that was at least more interesting

>>16596952

I should have cropped the 4th image to avoid confusion. The lv45 player is recording, the player doing damage is lv126.

>>16596203

it raked in tons of cash even at the end of its life without even taking subscriptions into account, it only died as it was due to SOE not getting its licensing renewed because EA was ready to shove out The Soy Republic.

>>16596515

>play maple years ago

>have fun fucking around as a thief

>biggest achievement was getting to level 40 and buying that really fucking cool pilfer hat

>completely fucked one character by going to the bottom of the ludibrium tower as a level 20

>everyone who passed by was friendly and tried helping me up only for me to be retarded and somehow kill myself

>traveling by ship was really fucking fun, me and other low level retards kept going outside just to fuck with the worried high level players

>you had to travel across the world to get a quest in hopes of leveling up

>whenever someone die he'd kept spamming "lol" as a ghost

>overall fun and challenging game, slow and grindy, but when you achieved something it felt like you really had achieved it

>friend remembers the game and invites me to play, says the game is "fixed" now and leveling is easy

>game just baits you to level 150 ish then becomes virtually impossible to progress without paying

>getting to level 150 is fucking nothing though, full of events and quests you ignore because a quest will give you 50% exp and the mobs you need to kill will give you the other 50%

>events are kind of fun, but the progress is meaningless

>boss fight mode where you can just teleport to an npc to select which boss and which dificulty to fight

>everything teleports you around, no need to go anywhere

>big large numbers with cool effects and a bunch of skills and items, but it just feels empty

>not rewarding or fun at all

Kike shit and pozz fucks games, but there's nothing worse than appealing to "new players" to "close the gap", and I say that as someone that's usually shit enough to be considered a new player even after playing a bit.

Anyone played Ryzom? Was that ever good and has it gotten worse?

>>16596952

This is literally nothing compared to WoW where they've reaching the multimillion damage mark only to tuned down the numbers and pump them right back up immediately afterwards like 3 times now. At one point they even had the audacity to argue they had to crunch the numbers because "the engine can't handle it" and Blizzdrones bought it hook line and sinker despite the numbers going right back up not even 6 months later.

>>16597822

>Anyone played Ryzom? Was that ever good and has it gotten worse?

define good. it definitely found it's footing catering to the hard RP niche, even when that probably wasn't what the devs wanted in the beginning (didn't help they were fucking retarded). game doesn't make a lot of money but the people playing will pay for a long time.

so depending what you're looking for it's quite good, otherwise boring, janky and archaic.

things could've gone differently if they really had made it open source like the original devs wanted to and not just parts of it after they got cucked with the rights, but it didn't turn out as bad as people were afraid of.

>>16597871

> At one point they even had the audacity to argue they had to crunch the numbers because "the engine can't handle it" and Blizzdrones bought it hook line and sinker despite the numbers going right back up not even 6 months later.

the game couldn't handle it going higher and higher. they brought the numbers back because wow players are literally retarded that can't understand why the numbers are suddenly smaller, that's why they had to crunch them over and over to make them go back and forth without hitting the cap.

which made it even more obvious you're grinding just for a higher number, but hey, blizzdrones.

>>16598005

>the game couldn't handle it going higher and higher.

No, it can and it did. They only crunched the numbers to make the power gap between expansions seem bigger, which has had the pretty funny side effect of original era endgame equipment having the equivalent in stats today to what a dinky level 20 green would've had back in the day.

>>16598017

>No, it can and it did.

not if they would've increased the numbers at the rate they did before they crunched it. without it a single crit would probably fill the whole screen by now.

blizzard is also notoriously lazy and shit at design, they wouldn't have bothered with it if they wouldn't have to.

> to make the power gap between expansions seem bigger

no one really cares about leveling shit tho, people compare final numbers to new endgame and that difference was smaller.

blizz figured out the sweet spot how high/low a drop has to be years ago (iirc it was around 20-25 ilvl during wotlk), so people still get the same rush as before but not ending with retardedly high numbers as before, then repeat it for the next expansion.

>>16598109

*didn't need to

>>16598109

Except that's obviously not true because look what happened with BFA. Where they so poorly crunched the numbers a players had to live in fear of 110s even as 120s

>>16596515

I think you're underestimating the quality of Maplestory. It's definitely an excessively grinding game, containing the usual MMO flaws. (Like skill/stat points not being refundable without spending $$$, grinding being optimal when you avoid other players, korean upgrade system.) But it also did a lot of things right which games at the time just kinda didn't.

The "platformer" MMO thing was very different from everything else on the market, and it did it well.

The camera is comfy and smooth, the character has some acceleration to feel weighty, but not too much so it still feels snappy.

Most environments had unique platform shapes & overall level design to go with them. Perion contained very few platforms littered with slow enemies that warriors could easily mob. Henesys featured many safe platforms where archers could shoot at enemies from. Ellina was filled with slopes that allowed mages to use their range over melee jobs, yet put them above ranged jobs due to ranged weapon deadzones. Kerning had low and high level enemies mixed all over, which wasn't an issue for dark-sight using thieves.

The best bit of level design is ant tunnel. The floor of that place is absolutely agonizing to maneuver with. You CAN jump over evil/cold eyes on that floor, but the timing is extremely tight. Care should be taken that you don't slip from the platforms onto the floor. Not to mention the insane amount of geysers in the deeper parts of the dungeon.

Social features like the party quest you mention existed; but the sauna was also a very good one. A place to group players together to recover health faster.

Too bad all of this shit was invalidated due to the fastest way to grind being spamming pots outta the ass because its a korean grindan mmo. (Not to mention that all of the area's after Victoria Island were poorly designed in comparison.)

>>16595772

Though I wouldn't really consider it an MMO, Star Conflict. Was a spaceship dogfighting game featuring 6dof movement.

At some point the developers went full fucking retard and tried to milk the shit out of it as hard of possible.

>Game features 3 "weight tiers" of ships; interceptors, fighters and frigates. Heavier ships outgun smaller ships, but smaller ships can outmaneuver heavier ships and kill them whilst in their deadzones.

>Game goes through a ton of balancing to actually accomplish balance between weight tiers and prevent the game from being exclusive interceptors/fighters and frigateballs, balance ends up being quite spot-on.

>At one point the developers decide to introduce a new ship weight tier, destroyer.

>So fucking tanky, not a single other ship, whilst resting in the destroyer's deadzone, can outdamage it to kill it, making it objectively the best thing in the game

>Instead of balancing the fucking thing, band-aid fixes are added like adjusting matchmaking so that the amount of destroyers on each team is always equal.

>Did I mention that destroyers require a resource unique to them to build? And that you require a ton of it? And that you can get them in lootboxes?

>Later, developers start introducing new ships that follow a similar model; overpowered, requires a ton of unique resources, but you can buy lootboxes to get them quick! Rinse and repeat many times over.

>Reinstall the game a few years later to see how terrible it is now.

>I matchmake into a PvP match, and see high-level players get matchmaked with just-starting players, together with a level-adjust feature that buffs up low level players to have equal stats

>The game is actually so fucking dead they have to matchmaking starting players with players that have thousands of hour against eachother.

I'm glad the game is dead now. They don't deserve any players.

>>16598121

that's just poor scaling. doesn't surprise me considering how shit bfa is all around.

>>16596235

Good thing localization shit haven't happened yet, current episode is sci-fi, you can get weapons with quite common badge drop from boss and that class balance adjustments seems like a major issue for the new director?

>>16596837

>>16595772

Ragnarok Online in general

How i'll miss it. Despite the grinding it always had a beautiful charm and godlike music that made it an unique experience and helped it gain attention in the first place.

>>16598713

Renewal and everything leading up to it really killed it off. It took the freeform flow that RO had and turned it into a WoW style shitfest.

>battlegrounds were a neat idea but made it so everyone had to do a specific grind for best in slot gear, that was locked to your account

>eden group introduced daily "kill x monsters and get two levels from it" cancer, nobody ever did any partying or hunting outside of eden anymore

>cash shop became more and more intrusive, 2x exp/drops was bad enough but every fucking month they released new gear that required you to shell out on enriched elu/ori to +9 to be able to compete (the chance of getting a +9 gear was roughly 1/300 without cash shop items)

>instanced dungeons, some of them had potential but endless tower was a bland slog that fucked the economy because people made 10 different characters that could farm MVPs nonstop

Then renewal actually came out and the mechanics were objectively shit

>max level is required for any PVP because being level 150 gave you immunity to some statuses, but being 149 meant you had no resistance to them at all

>every character got huge aoe clear spells for PVE. Very similar to what path of exile has turned into, the only thing that matters is how fast you jump around killing everything because nothing is really a challenge

>A bunch of new effects that have zero counterplay and WoE turned into a "who cast their lock down effect first", monks can root entire guilds, alchemists have mandragora cry…just fucking awful

>You can be a super saiyan too, as long as you put a few hundred bucks onto cash shop items you can deal millions of damage every second to MVPs!

I'm still mad to this day. Imagine if instead of trying to turn the game into WoW, they instead took that time to fix their buggy decade old engine, develop some good anti-bot programs,

and properly rebalance trans classes?

And there are no good pservs anymore either. Either they're donate2win, or have corrupt GM teams, or are filled with pinoys and hues.

=F=

Would say Star Trek Online, but it was shit from the start.

>>16597871

>"the engine can't handle it"

It would be believable to say "the servers can't handle it", I've heard that any large scale thing in BfA just completely lags out the server because of all the shit happening.

What game is the OP`? I want to know even if its shit now.

Tree of Savior during the beta was incredibly fun. It was a team based grinding game where you just ran around levels AoEing the shit out of everything. And by the time the game launched, it was a solo leveling game where you did a few dungeons each day for xp/money, and that was it.

>>16596128

>Wildstar's raid attunement being hard

The 20 man attunement was hard and fun as hell. The 40 man attunement wasn't hard, it was a stupidly long grind.

>>16596712

Agreed. The dungeons were by far the best part of Wildstar. Doing the hard mode dungeons to get silver medals for the attunement was some of the most fun I've had in any game. The only small group content that came close to Wildstar's dungeons were WoW's TBC 5 man heroics.

>>16597871

The engine couldn't handle it, mobs couldn't have more than a set amount of HP. Which is why the last boss before the number crunch had phases that healed him to full.

>>16597871

Except they're correct?

They probably store some values in 32-bit integers, which can't go any higher than 4 billion something. When players do millions of damage, then creating a boss that can actually take some beating becomes quite difficult.

I mean, sure, they could've went through the effort of reworking the engine to use 64-bit integers instead. But doing a crunch so that numbers aren't retardedly high and easier to for players to read is probably a way better idea.

The problem here isn't in the crunch, it's the fact that they are actually escalating numbers that fucking high.

>>16595772

Startek Online

Before:

>classes balanced making them useful and needing a role to fit, engineer tank/healers, redshirts dps/aoe dps, science buffs/debuffs

>ships escalated in tiers without being uterly useless or op as fuck

>player market wasnt absolutely insane

>factions were somewhat balanced around what their ships were meant to do

>premium currency was farmeable without limit

>new ships were being introduced balanced or locked behind clan walls which made the power justifiable

Now:

<chinkshit riddled player market with inflated prices

<new ships being introduced op as fuck and locked to lootboxes

<premium currency drop rates skewed as fuck and limited across all characters

<engineers relegated to a troll class since now everyone but them explode the screen five times making tanks useless, either you kill them or die

<clans handled by faggots with no opposition meaning no otyer clans allowed

It was a shame honestly

>>16599350

>not self-destruct

come on get your blu memes together properly

100% of all mmos are shit.

ESO

It was always shit. I just wanted another TES game dammit!

I fucking swear, never put dailies into your fucking games unless you're going for the gold as the premier Gook Grinder. The second the fucking blight gets introduced, your player count (by extension the community and social aspect that really is at the core of MMO's) immediately tanks. And devs end up puzzled, completely unsure as to why something that rewards you for logging on for five minutes for a better reward than players could make in an hour means players suddenly disappear. So what do they do? They add more, congratulations you worthless fucks, now your players stay on for 10 or even 15 minutes! I would honestly put daily quests just below pay2win or pay2use shit and just above looking for dungeon auto matchmakers for leading to the death of MMOs. Id kill if there was an MMO that didn't try to make it so that solo play was on pal or (God forbid) better than grouping up to fight shit and actually didn't rely on people walking into the same five dungeons

>>16599393

Friendly reminder all game studios are like this and "lead designer" gaming celebrities all pull this exact same shit. Anything that ends up being good is in spite of them, not because.

>>16600174

to be fair it really doesn't matter what a dev thinks he is or isn't as long he doesn't go out of his way to shove it in your face.

wildstar didn't really have any pozzed shit and the art was received pretty well across the board.

>>16599393

tim cain's fat ass husband was the first "community manager" way before there was an actual game and would prance around the studio doing ballerina moves. his rhythmic thudding announced himself way before you saw him.

also pretty sure jeremy gafney was involved with embezzlement

>>16601616

>nothing wrong with dailies

Your kind killed the genre. Good job!

>>16595865

>couldn't play FE during its peak due to potato laptop and being poorfag

>when I get good desktop the game is already ded

It sounded like a good game lads, a good game I will never enjoy.

>>16601845

I mean, you can play it right the fuck now. The world is comfy as shit and like I said, you can be self-sufficient as long as you grab armorcrafting and the weapon skill for which ever weapons you want. It's still worth giving a shot, as it's under 10 gigs I believe.

>>16599560

The only good thing about spell decks was that all spells were at character level instead of 3\2 or 3\1\1 at character level and the rest at whatever. The rest is just… why?

Champions Online

dunno if i really have to elaorate on it.

Somewhere in 2012 dev studio changed hands and new owners thought the numbers the game pulled didnt justified a 20+ dev team, so they removed the whole team, left the games witha skeleton crew for like year and a half, population went away.

Ever since they own the IP, they dont really give a shit . Most new stuff is made of recycled assets, cept lockbox stuff and ocasional new costume pieces on " Events"

>>16601839

>repeatable content that's implemented like shit is the fault of the content!11

drink bleach faggot

>>16603174

no mmo will have content you only play once, be it dungeon, raids or quest, so dailies are pretty much inevitable in some form.

also people like to have a task to complete and not run in circles aoe-bombing mobs to fill a bar or currency amount.

the problem with shitty dailies is when it's the only avenue for progression and you have to repeat that specific content ad nauseum (either because the rewards are locked to it or so good you can't skip it). worse when the variance of that content is slim to none.

a good way to do it is making it an option, not mandatory.

>Fucking WoW

because wow was always shit. take dungeon dailies for example, the excuse was that it evens out participation for everyone so you have to do them every day. makes sense from a certain perspective but it's also an retarded argument, might as well only make them active between 2-5am so people playing at night find more players.

rift on other hand just added a charge per day and you could grind them all out during the weekend if you wanted or 2-3 every few days (was later changed iirc).

other daily shit were the same 5-10 dailies in the same area and were the only way to get that specific rep or rewards tied to it. it was especially retarded in mop where you had to grind rep to unlock a new faction to grind rep there. they also moved from one extreme to the other where they said "we don't want people do too much dailies" by removing almost all of them, then people complained because they were bored and then they went the exact opposite in mop. it was also a try to baby players "oh noes, some people do all the dailies on 5 chars" because apparently some retards can't control themselves so they limited the numbers of dailies you could do per day.

>Do you honestly know of any games that have done daily shit right? Honest question here.

eso. the rewards are not unique so you can either do dailies or do whatever else you want and then just buy that shit. they're also implemented in a way that the overworld still gets used and players funneled into a different zone/dungeon evers day which makes the world look more alive (it's a mmo after all). the gold reward itself is good but hardly necessary since gold doesn't have that much use anyway.

it still has dungeon dailies but mainly quests which make you do a specific dungeon per day. if you don't want/need the dungeon drop you can skip it or do it for the chest reward which is the same for the whole group of dungeons. the rotation is fixed afaik, so you can plan ahead.

it all comes down to how it's done, same as every other content.

>>16598713

don't suppose there's some youtube video reminiscing and articulating what was great about ro?

>>16603413

>Fucking WoW

Yeah, honestly it's an awful example, but I do recall dailies from expansion to expansion being stupid as hell. At least Cataclysm had different areas you could grind faction rep with on top of a specific set of dailies.

Also

>apparently some retards can't control themselves

If some faggots want to waste their whole day grinding rep on multiple factions from dailies alone, let them be retarded. I can at least pretend to understand early on in the expansions when you're stuck with next to nothing (can't recall if it changed much from Cata and MoP to the later xpacs) but I recall Warlords being such hot shit in terms of progressing in the first month that the thing was dead on arrival. IT really is, as you said it was, down to execution of the concepts.

I'll admit to never having played ESO a bit of a shame, because my friend apparently was relatively famous as a blacksmith/enchanter because he would not only accidentally offer super low prices but was also friendly to most people to the point he had came back after six months of inactivity to have a flood of people asking for him but he also would tack on double the materials required so he could make/enchant his own gear. I'm actually fucking jealous that he was experiencing the more nonfaggotry bit of the social end of MMO's than I have had in a long time but the idea of decent but not overpowered loot/rewards coupled with using different areas each time so you can see populated areas actually is actually pretty nice to hear about. I'll concede execution of a concept definitely is what's important in a game.

>>16603740

>>16599613

The only things I know about eso are:

1.) It fucked the lore hard, way worse than skyrim and oblivion. Whenever I read shit on UESP I always have to check and see whether it's about real lore or just ESO BS about some dumb sithis ghost snake god.

2.) It doesn't play anything like a real ES game.

3.) There was a lot of memeing by people who hoped for it to be Tortantic 2, especially around the fact that there was a way to be nearly invincible in PVP (vid related).

4.) There is speculation that Bethesda has delayed working on and releasing Elder Scrolls 6 in a pathetic attempt to extend ESO's shelf life.

>>16604391

>Is Tree of Savior the Spiritual Successor to Ragnarok Online?

>Why was Ragnarok Online good? - Early History of Ragnarok Online

Neither is the love letter it deserves. tfw starting to forget

I'm convinced that there are no good games left in the genre.

>Guild Wars

Died, devs also added P2W shit somewhere down the line.

>Shores of Hazeron

Best MMO ever to exist, too bad the kike shut it down, only to bring it back a few months later as P2P.

>Firefall

It's rather painful to talk about.

>>16604467

Saved, that pic sums it up pretty well.

Would've played it if it came out 6years earlier though.

>>16604481

>Firefall

Tell me your story, anon

>>16603740

ESO is alright, there's a good amount of build variety if you're willing to put in the work. It's not fantastic, but it doesn't have a sub fee which is a massive plus

>>16604877 (checked)

Having a lot of fun playing ESO right now. Great to be able to jump on a do whatever I want. Killed a dragon this morning. Got a similar feeling to the first time a dragon showed up in Skyrim except there were 20+ people fighting it and the dragon was actually fucking people up.

Good fun.

>>16604481

Are you talking about Guildwars2? Because GW1 certainly has no P2W shit.

>>16603740

>If some faggots want to waste their whole day grinding rep on multiple factions from dailies alone, let them be retarded.

I worded that a bit wrong, I don't have a problem with people that just want to grind shit all day. it's their time and they can do whatever the fuck they want. and at least they have something to do - as a vanilla oldfag it was annoying when you want to play the game but there is literally nothing else to do besides rolling an alt, and considering how shit that's done in wow (it's basically starting over from scratch, heritage shit is just a bandaid) and even was way worse in vanilla that's not much fun either.

where it gets retarded when those people complain on the forums that just because the game gives them the option they feel they have to do it, even when they have zero fun and don't even really need the rewards or aren't in a hurry.

>I'm actually fucking jealous that he was experiencing the more nonfaggotry bit of the social end of MMO's than I have had in a long time

really depends on the game. "if you build it, they will come", and wow got a lot more bottom of the barrel over time.

you can always drop into eso, since gear is capped and everything's a sidegrade you don't have to play through years of (dead) content, also people are chill af, but dunno how it is on the US side

>>16604962

word of advice: for continuity do the main story first (it's the dude showing up after the tutorial and mentions coldharbour), then the zones main stories at least (they have a special icon). else meeting some npcs doesn't mean much and their behaviour doesn't make much sense - like razum dar calling you "an old friend" etc.

morrowind/clockwork city/summerset are their own cycle but still has some npcs from before showing up.

>the dragon was actually fucking people up.

that fucking wing clip range, fuck you zos.

>>16604483

>Firefall

not him, but it was literally "wasted potential: the game (wtf are they doing)"

the gameplay loop itself was quite fun with tribes movement, public events where you could just jump in and do shit with other people, but a bit janky. instead of focusing on the strong points and fix the bad shit they revamped it several times in different directions so it went nowhere, with hardly any new content on top of it.

dunno if they tried to listen to too many people at once or had simply no direction at all.

either way at one point and millions wasted they tried to salvage it, but it was still a mess (since it was just another revamp) and shut down after some time, but at that point hardly anyone cared anymore.

>>16606025

>morrowind/clockwork city/summerset are their own cycle

*is it's own cycle. if you wanna play it start with morrowind

>>16604968

Nope, there are some P2W features in the first game now. Extra stash tabs and the mercenary hero slots give you an inherent advantage over others by being able to take extra Mesmers.

>>16604483

Bought into the $100 meme dream using money I got from my birthday back when it just entered beta. First and last kikestarter game I ever got burned on. I still keep the poster above my monitor as an eternal reminder.

>>16606344

What they updated an old game to add microtransactions?

>>16598789

>Ragnarok

So true

>>16606344

I"m sorry to hear that man, I've fallen for the kikestarter meme once myself. To be fair, It shouldn't be fucking hard to make a good 40K shooter, you don't have to do anything lore wise, it's literally almost 40 years old and everything around that isn't fan fiction is "a bunch of dicks decided to be dicks to everyone else, and they also have guns and billions of lives to throw away. I swear the only thing really keeping it afloat was a delusional player base and the fact the Orks were almost all bro-tier and talked like fucking orks

>>16606501

haven't played gw1 in ages but wouldn't put it past anusnet.

>>16604241

>ESO fucked the lore hard

It didnt fuck the lore, thats a lie Skyrimfags were spamming just to smear the game before it even came out

>it doesnt play anything like a real ES game

It plays better than single player TES.

>MUH TORTANIC because Emperor buff

Emperor just gives 100% bonus hp and some other bonuses its not even that strong in Cyrodil because hundred players are fighting at all times, roughly speaking you have 2x the surviability of another player and can 1v2 or even 1v3 if you are skilled enough but against a proper PvP group you cannot do anything without support.

>MUH SINGLE PLAYER TES GAME IS DELAYED BOOHOO

Thats pretty much a myth once again spammed by retarded Skyrimfags like you, ESO is developed by Zenimax Online studio while single player TES games are developed by Bethesda main team, infact new TES game is still in PRE-PRODUCTION stage because Bethesda was wasting time on dumb shit like Fallout 4, Fallout 76 and some other nonsense games

You are that Skyrim kiddo retard that was shitposting about ESO all the time here on 8chan because it wasnt F2P and you couldnt pirate it

why do all MMO seem to have "single unit RTS" combat?

I mean stuff like "oh the timer on this ability is done, time to hit it again" and then the abilities requiring for you to stand still for their animation, making movement and spacing a moot point?

maybe im just not playing the right ones

I really like the idea of playing a game with like 50+ people on the server at a time and carving out my own path in it but they all seem to play with that nearly not gameplay style

>>16607215

thats only post WoW mmos. Games like Ultima and Ragnarok had resource management. If you wanted to spam powerful spells go ahead, but you'd run out of reagents or mana. Cool Downs were invented to regulate the resources for the casuals.

>>16607215

I assume mostly because it's easier to make. The server for a MMO is much bigger than a small team based multiplayer game, there's enough complexity to work with without adding high precision solving into it.

>>16607221

its not just the cooldowns im talking about, though that is good to know so thank you

>>16607233

oof, so im fucked from the starting gun arent I

I know certain FPS can have action gameplay that does turn into laggy mud with even 32 people, probably more though, so I dont see what the big deal would be for a 50 person sever… then again most want more then 50 people dont they? maybe the game im looking for dosnt exist

>>16607236

>oof

Get the fuck out nigger.

>>16598804

Ah, but now it's shit with an STD on top.

Though it was generally quite good for a while, had som ehiccups, but it's very much snagged in a net, partly from STD suffocating any future content and partly because of the balancing powercreep against stagnating strategies means any introduction of new mechanics to undermine old faithful builds results in torrents of salt.

That all said, there's still not a better PvE focused naval MMO out there to the best of my knowledge

>>16607215

Play Eve.

>>16607172

Hey Todd, didn't know you posted on Hatechan.

>>16607500

Todd doesnt work for Zenimax you fucking retard

>>16597822

>decide to try this late last year because i heard about building skills out of stanzas

>try to be a mage

>turns out it you pick a base spell and customize it slightly

>you can't add new effects, just increase things like the cast time, range, and mana cost to allow you to deal more damage

>most of the spells that aren't "deal damage" suck

>tutorial area is completely dead of course, to finish out all the content some high-level player has to come in and one-shot the boss for me

>it's k, i understand the game is very RP-heavy because of the events i've seen posted on the site and i'm down with that

>go to mainland at last

>game is ancient so i can't find a single living soul

>no idea what to do to grind, either

>the guides for that are somewhat poorly written and a huge number of professions seem to be multi-step processes that i don't have the skills for

>the only other option i can find is to be a shitty courier for NPCs

>don't log back in

I don't see how this game ever could have been good, even in its prime, but damn is the world good. It has a bizarre primitive / native theme that four very distinct races have a different take on. The music is sparse, but it's great and very flavorful, and there's even an NPC faction that's heavily implied to be super-advanced aliens with beam rifles and teleporters amid all these primitive hut-dwellers. It's very interesting overall.

>>16599072

Seconding this, it doesn't sound like any game I've ever played.

>>16596515

>>16597662

>>16597871

>>16599846

>damage in the billions

What's the point of inflating damage that much? It doesn't even fill a power fantasy if the bosses don't die any faster. It just becomes numbers > skill or gameplay. I like having damage boosted over the base, but at that point it just becomes boring.

>>16599089

>They probably store some values in 32-bit integers, which can't go any higher than 4 billion something.

The largest signed 32-bit number is 2,147,483,647 and the largest unsigned 32-bit is 4,294,967,295. (Signed means the number range can be positive or negative. Unsigned means the number is only positive. Unsigned can be larger because half the range isn't reserved for negative values.) Developers often use signed numbers even when negative values aren't used (currency, health, etc) either due to laziness, or to avoid potential underflow exploits with unintended negative values. (The latter is easy to check for if the developer isn't incompetent.)

>they could've went through the effort of reworking the engine to use 64-bit integers instead

Going by the screenshots for MapleStory, it looks like they eventually had to, but I can't speak for World of Warcraft.

This doesn't usually require a major re-work, it's just a matter of replacing the declaration type of health variables (and other variables that use them) in the respective classes. It's a pain though if a lot of variables are declared in many classes.

>But doing a crunch so that numbers aren't retardedly high and easier to for players to read is probably a way better idea.

>The problem here isn't in the crunch, it's the fact that they are actually escalating numbers that fucking high.

You're correct, but companies keep escalating the power in various games for short term gain, not realizing that it's a long term loss. Sure, the new skills, classes, items, etc seem stronger, but when people find their current characters or gear they worked hard for become worthless, it's also less incentive for them to continue playing. It also becomes noticeably repetitive to players when the game focuses more on numbers than actual skill or player coordination.

Once the damage is well over 100x what it used to be (or even exponentially greater in the case of MS and WoW) it becomes harder to balance the game properly and you know the game can never scale back its damage or HP values because of how high it already escalated.

Everyone's talking about RO, but what happened to the 8ch/v/ guild? Of course it died because the game is old and grindy, and no one has time for that anymore with a job and schedule. I want the actual details. It know that it opened two years ago on OriginsRO, was there ever another branch on a different private server? Did it come back last year? If not, why

>>16613892

There was originally a group on HeRO, but everyone quit when they realized how much of a mess that server is. Any semblance of balance is buried under over a decade worth of custom "content", the admins are no different than any other power hungry staff, and the community is filled with legit autistic fags who spend 16 hours every day for years on end hunting MVP cards to brag about. Good luck getting anywhere, because the facade of helping newbies on that server instantly goes away the second you try to compete with the veterans. Want to PVP/WoE? Haha fuck off and go hunt more gear. Oh, you're hunting MVPs to get geared now? Our clique of top end players are going to mess with your MVPs and you can't complain, but if you dare touch one of ours we're going to get you banned for griefing and killstealing. Everyone just walked away in the span of about a week once it was clear that nothing would ever change.

Between 8/v/ and half/v/ (before the exodus I think), there were groups on most of the other popular RO servers but it was so splintered that it rarely accomplished anything aside from circlejerking. Talon and NobbaRO had playerbases, ggRO and its offshoots (DoM, RoM, CookieRO etc) went tits up, there was a fight between originsRO and titanRO, titan is now dead and I don't think there are any guilds on origins anymore either.

RO as a whole is going the way of the dinosaur, unless you count the trashfire that is renewal, because it appeals to people who want to see bigger and bigger numbers to inflate their ego.

>>16614529

Oh and I'm not entirely clear on this, but I think one of the trannies from /rog/ who sucked so much dick that >she (he) got a position with warp portal, is now involved with originsRO, because trannies love to insert themselves into anything they can fuck up.

>>16614529

RIP

I played briefly on Origins sometime in summer 2016, but I joined late because I just wanted to see what RO was like, having not played retail. I only stayed for a few days, I think; I really didn't have time to grind back then.

>>16611834

power creep and F2P on the first question. the longer a F2P game goes, the more unplayable it gets, the only people left on it are hopeless addicts.

>>16607529

>I don't see how this game ever could have been good, even in its prime

you grinded mobs for exp so you could get more stuff for spells (as in literally picking a spot and whack mobs for hours). it wasn't as bad when you did it in a group.

or back then you did treks because getting from one capitol to the other was a pain in the ass. dunno if that has changed.

>but damn is the world good.

to give the frogs credit, they can come up with some great shit. just keep them away from management.

I remember running around solo and exploring when a whole trek of animals crossed the zone, dozens of herds for minutes. was quite impressive back then.

>>16614589

>The rewards you get for playing daily are really good, specially if you want to level up, but it's all just so monotonous and soul crushingly boring.

are you in a hurry? why else would you want to level as fast as possible? I mean in the end it's you thinking you have to do it. it's an easy trap to fall into.

>>16614589

PSO2 is monotonous and soul crushingly boring.

>>16596834

Spiral Knights released with tons of pay2win shit in the cashshop. Gtfo

>>16614785

rip

The game was superficially very interesting but it seems like if you dig into the meat of any system, there's no depth but a ton of grind.

Also, the problems with dailies isn't that you're forced to do them, it's that you feel like a chump if you don't. Sure, you only level a little faster if you play 'optimally', but what's the point if the game gives you an objective (level up and become stronger) and you deliberately sabotage yourself just to have fun? That's not a challenge, it's just being an idiot to try and alleviate the problems of poor game design.

>>16614805

this tbqh fam

I really wanted to like PSO2, but there's no nuance to the combat besides attack, dodge, attack. When SEGA finally ramped up the difficulty with SH, people complained until they nerfed boss AI, but I've been to some of the really difficult ultimate quest boss fights, and it's even less interactive than regular content: bosses generally don't spend much time, if any, recovering from missed attacks, so you only use your safest and fastest attacks to damage them, and since you aren't waiting for an opening because there generally isn't one, you're just slamming the attack buttons any time that you aren't in the middle of a dodge.

>>16614819

Wanted to try this just to see how permadeath affected a big-budget MMO, never got around to it. Maybe it's for the best if the NA servers didn't even make it to their second anniversary. Was it any good?

>>16614590

Every MMO that brings back fond memories to different people did this in some way. Ragnorok? Soul-crushing grind but tons of areas, many options at any level, no level restrictions on exploring, ease of partying up. RuneScape? 27 or so skills, depending on when you played, self-contained quests with actual stories and not just "collect 20" objectives scattered around, a world that you actually had to work to get around on occasion. Maplestory? Platforming, pick-up parties, endless grind, a world that felt big because you had to traverse it, distinct classes. None of them simulated a virtual world very well, but they all 'felt' like they did.

>>16598789

When Ragnarok became free to play it had quite literally died.

>>16614785

>are you in a hurry? why else would you want to level as fast as possible?

>why would you want to level up so you can unlock new difficulty settings and better drops

>why would you want to improve your build.

Take a guess.

The problem comes from how much they reward you for treating it as a Job.

>>16614805

Most of the EQ's are alright and boss fights, at least the ones that are good, are really fun to do.

The problem is everything else.

>>16614953

>None of them simulated a virtual world very well, but they all 'felt' like they did.

This. Why tho?

>>16614529

Worst part about renewal is that it had a lot of mechanical updates that actually made sense (like stat progression and damage% modifiers), but it all came with the bad parts as a package as if someone used a monkey's paw

>>16614590

I'm playing Maple Story 2 and i can tell you it also has a free music system; of course, it also has like 18 channels and auto-perform/fishing so the odds of finding people actually playing the game are moderately low, unless you wanna go to where the world bosses spawn and play music to annoy everyone else waiting to grind. Haven't played Gorgon but i recall seeing that one image of tuba-griefing so i assume it's a thing there, too. Beyond that, i always thought Mabi's world was alarmingly small; just wilderness hallways between towns in Uladh or loads of nothing in Iria, which are even less impressive with flying mounts.

>>16615222

To me, the worst change that renewal did was abolish RO's traditional means of balance. In pre-renewal, everything is overpowered - because everything can be countered. Sleep, stun, freeze and stone curse all completely remove control from you, but they can all be 100% negated with cards. You can become immune to ranged OR melee attacks, but only one at a time, and a sage can completely negate those immunities at the exchange of giving protection from AoE magic - and WoE is entirely determined by the way this interaction works. Sages have always been the backbone of any WoE guild. Even if the meta near the end of pre-ren got stale because creators/champs took over, every class (except for knight and smith) had utility in WoE because they all did something unique.

When renewal hit, most classes no longer had counters, it was about who had more MVP/god gear, better cash shop items, and who pressed their buttons first. The stat progression is a lateral change at best for me, I liked the exponential growth of pre-renewal mechanics and I feel renewal went way too hard on the changes. Also what they did with fixed cast times was criminal.

>>16595871

someone here should build a emu server for /v/. the code is out there

>>16615273

Well yeah, Renewal just turned everyone into 1-button oneshot retards, even priest which was the hardest class to play well just baited retards into only using the party buffs and nothing else. Overall player quality just suffered enormously.

>>16613892

>>16614529

>>16614539

>>16614560

I had the impression that an RO guild cropped up almost every summer, based on the way people were talking in the thread, or at least had for a few years prior. I haven't heard anything about RO on this board since then, though, or even how the guild died, although I assume from poor player turnout and lack of interest.

>>16595772

Played Tera online for a few years I just grinded nonstop for high level accs to max lvl as fast as possible with 16+ hours a day every day with multiple alot accounts for years all it was was just kill the mobs clear dungeons lonerism forced if people dont want to get to know you or play with you. Its lonely and people shit all over you endgame lol just another lonely experience and still is on xb1, its the same.

>>16598713

>>16615214

I miss pre-guild war faggotry RO badly. Ever since guild war is implemented everything went from just take a comfy stroll in this fantasy world and exploring at your own pace with your friends to MINMAX YOU WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT IF YOU EVER MISCLICKED WHEN YOU LVL YOUR ATTRIBUTE POINT THEN DELETE THAT CHAR AND MAKE NEW ONE ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET MORE YGGDRASIL FRUIT YOU FAGS IF WE CANT WIN PVP FOR SHIT THEN WE MIGHT AS WELL MAKE MONEY FROM IT. FARM MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>16614953

>That's not a challenge, it's just being an idiot to try and alleviate the problems of poor game design.

what's the point if the game gives you an objective (level up and become stronger) and you deliberately sabotage yourself just to have fun? That's not a challenge, it's just being an idiot to try and alleviate the problems of poor game design.

what's the point in playing if it's not fun? why do you play in the first place then? and again, what difference does it makes if you hit cap in 2,5 or 10 days?

and ofc, why would you keep playing shit games where the reward doesn't justify the means?

>>16615115

but that's just "I want it nao" mentality again. it's not a race, why bother with it it just burns you out.

> they reward you for treating it as a Job.

because it works for some and not for others. instead of looking for a different game or adjust their playstyle ppl keep bending over or think it's an obligation. why?

>>16599560

They fucked up so much more than that.

>scrapped early sandbox model and have basically turned it into a themepark

>dumbed down maps, dungeons, etc, all the little quirks and secrets the game used to have have been removed for fucking boring utilitarian garbage

>garbage tank and spank dungeon designs, the last good dungeon they made was Xelor Past, everything after that (possible excepting Koko) has been shit

It's absolutely irredeemable now, it will never be worth playing again, it has crossed the event horizon of eternal mediocrity. Wakfu is and forever will be shit.

>>16596184

tencent is the 2nd biggest shareholder in kakao the owner of pearl abyss.

Looks also like they about to increase their dominance in a upcoming deal.

>>16607236

>>16607215

MMO gameplay is to deal with latency. Because with that many people you're guaranteed to deal with some amount of lag. Having things like automatic targetinging helps mitigate the negative impact of lag.

>>16596515

>>16599846

Man I remember when damage in the thousands was god-tier. There's no way damage creep that high can be good for any game

>log in to originsRO just to see what it looks like these days

>over 1000 players almost all day

>at least four player shops set up outside Payon cave (a low-level dungeon) 24/7

What happened, I don't remember it being this lively 2 years ago.

>>16596215

That's not a bazooka, that's an RPG-26

t. strelo/k/

>>16622099

iRO shut down its classic servers so it's filled with refugees

>>16622393

I just saw that news and I still didn't make the connection. Sounds like the "classic" iRO servers weren't very classic at all, so nothing of value was lost. I guess now might actually have been a good time to start up a /v/ guild with all the new players, imagine that.

>>16618735

I thought only certain MMOs were becoming singleplayer focused with optional multiplayer interactions. Is this actually an issue with a lot of other MMOs too?

>>16615196

Because you always had something to do without feeling like you were forced to, the world seemed to move along without you, you could travel almost anywhere freely but the world made it difficult enough to retain its feeling of expansiveness, and there were always other players about. Today MMOs cut down on anything that isn't the grind to addict players, they have dailies and limited-time events and the perception and "community" around them has changed to value leveling and grinding and nothing else (see "xp waste" on RuneScape), nothing exists outside of your little leveling bubble except more quest NPCs who never move and never change, the world is no longer important except as a venue to funnel you from one quest or grinding location to the next (so teleports are usually inexpensive or free and areas are tiny and often just flat) and no one else cares to speak outside their discord channel or group of facebook friends if they aren't sequestered into instanced housing, private guildhalls, or otherwise engrossed with costumes, selfie screenshots, and other narcissism enablers.

In short, every game tried to be WoW, and WoW gradually shed everything that made it interesting in favor of sinking its hooks as deep as possible into the reward system of its players' minds.

>>16615214

I never got the chance to play RO. Are there any good private servers that emulate the game in its prime? I don't care if I'm the only one playing.

>>16650716

See >>16622099

>>16650766

There's a stark difference between behaving in a jewish manner and being jewish anon.

You know, OP never delivered on the name of his game.

Just saying but EVERY MMO EVER.

>>16661000

You've liked every MMO ever?

>>16661097

I remember hearing something about patches being bad before. What about the crafting system? I didn't play long enough to really see it, but from what I saw in the tutorial it seemed like standard MMO stuff to me.

>>16661059

That's some nice cover art.

i dont think it fits here, because it never "went" to shit, it always "was" shit, but Tales of Pirates was an MMO i liked and really burned down to the ground because of one hacky boi who hacked the official server, destroyed it completely, burnt the remains down, all to promote his private server, which he then proceeded to shut down half a year later, and make another one thats just as bad as the original with microtransactions and pay2win for whales.

then a year later he died from cancer and now his server is held by a group of people who were close to him and are making all the money.

>>16661144

Seconding this, any craft system that isn't completely five bear assess and some rocks for studded assed chaps is always a plus

>>16661145

It's even better once you realize that's an actual pulse rifle

>>16661176

That actually does sound pretty fucking great. I really like the idea of gatherers working together and the different weather and seasons producing some neat stuff. An interesting direction I would like to see in a system would be different seasons and ages of animals and mobs producing unique colors and additional benefits. Younger animals having softer fur for the inside of snow coats or a winter season or area allowing for snow shaded fur. It would be a lot of work, of course to pull it off correctly, but it would be cool to see.

>>16596751

I still occasionally chuckle remembering the time the nutjob dev put the universe on the gold standard and wrecked all trade

>>16614923

Thank god GW2 made was "that" game for me. You know, the first game in which you realize your blind fanboyism, loyalty and devotion to a company and the products they create are and always will be use to exploit you.

>GW2 devs spent literal YEARS assuring GW players that reaching level caps would be quick

>also reiterated that there would be a pretty low power ceiling in PvE and PvP to not fall into the trap of making an endless gear treadmill

>Game released, level cap was 80. More grind than in GW1, but you could get max rank gear by leveling up crafting - fair enough

>Two months after release the first official update dropped

>dev added endless dungeons with a gear that levels up with you the deeper you go

>people called them out for it, even game urinos back then wrote articles about it

>Anet quietly deleted dev blogs, including the ones that stated their promise to not add endless grind

>few months later new gear tier was added, one you had to spend literal months to farming for to craft one of

>no build diversity, no experimentation

>all that was left was grind

I loved GW's lore, but fuck NCSoft and Anet. They've lived long enough to see themselves become the villain.

WoW went to shit after MoP

>>16607172

I've never seen anything shilled this hard before

>>16661561

RIP Spiral Knights, it deserved better than those retards at Three Rings. Apparently this is an ongoing problem; a while back I was just reading up on Puzzle Pirates (also RIP) for some nostalgia and stumbled across this gem in the forums:

https://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=157103

>hey guys we've been running the stats on swordfighting and rumble and it turns out the new sword, the dadao, is beating all other swords at all levels of skill by a significant margin

<we know that

<because WE TOLD YOU, you retards

<for months pirates on the test ocean (server) were screaming at you that the new sword was broken as shit and if you released it like this it'd dominate swordfighting everywhere

<and then you said 'lol looks good' and dropped it anyway

<why do you even bother with testers if you aren't going to listen to us?

>>16661576

>OriginsRO

>2018

Wasn't the 8ch guild opened in 2017?

Were you sticking it out alone, anon?

>>16595871

god I was such a fucking kid but this game was so good. I miss it anons

>>16638493

No idea what that nigger is saying. Player Tera on and off for years.

it's old and any expansion ever hits the late game, so the publishers reacted with various ways and level events that allow you to rush to max level in a few days or sometimes just one single dedicated day. But that's where the game only really starts a shame since the world is big and looks cool but doing the storyline is objectivly the worst way to level so you do it alone if at all. The gap between a level 64 and a max level 65 who just got thrown the basic endgame item set for free is gigantic.

but endgame is just dungeon grinding. You can't solo those and even if you could loot increases with partymembers so no reason to. It's a shitty system that forces you into the same few dungeons over and over, but you're not alone doing it.

>>16661590

It's not like swordfighting was ever balanced though, the game has always revolved around

>Skull dagger for mass sprinkling

>Falchion for strikes while still being good at sprinkles

>Saber for being an annoying faggot and spamming 2x sprinkles over and over

Falch makes up 2/3 of the field at least because it literally does everything better than the other swords except for niche things that it's only slightly worse at

The dadao actually did get nerfed after release but you're right, the devs at OOO/GH have always been lazy cunts and only put the bare minimum effort required into their products.

>PP is buggy and messy for years

>Hey devs, how about you fix this broken mechanic or puzzle that needs a few simple tweaks

>Silence

>But hey we're running a new lootbox sale!

PP is one of those MMOs that you can say it was ahead of its time and actually mean it, it had the most potential of nearly any MMO in the early 00s and it completely fucking blew it solely due to apathy and laziness.

I don't get how people get addicted to mmo's.

>dude WoW is so good!

>play it

>it's ok

>come here and get told vanilla WoW was the shit, assume I was mistaken and go find a good private server

>it's the same

I've played so many mmo's and not a single one other than swtor literally just because dude lightsabers and friends but they're all so gay.

>>16662385

>screencap doesn't include spoilers

0/10 apply yourself.

>>16595772

Runescape

RUNESCAPE

RUNESCAPE

FUCK JAGEX, FUCK NORMALFAG SCUM! GIVE ME BACK MY PRE-2007 RUNESCAPE YOU FUCKING CUNTS YOU BITCHES YOU FUCKING TRIPLE NIGGERS!

>>16662493

WoW is and always has been shit.

>>16614932

And people stopped playing because G1 bought up Icarus, the original devs, then proceeded to fire most of them as G1 crumbled. So the game simply stopped getting updates, or new content, or fixes or anything at all really. G1 crumbled because they kept funneling money into APB Reloaded, trying to bring that game to a wider audience, when it already has a dedicated base of turbowhales, but never actually succeeding to gain any new players. So they went bitch ass broke, shut down most other games they had, and got bought up by some industry newfags who have been trying to put out updates for both APB and Fallen Earth, but it's absolutely too little too late for both.

>>16662476

There'll be another time friend.

Maybe someday in the vast spaces of the internet we can play again. I'm still on steam by the way.

See you around space cowboy, you're gonna carry that weight.

>>16663006

Is the pserv for that game coming along well? I never played AC but it's got some neat stories about its lore and its playerbase.

>>16661097

fuck, I completely forgot about the chick. can't even remember who she was, and I was quite a bit into ryzom's lore back then. think they removed her later or nerfed her look, vaguely remember some midriff-hubhub.

patch 1 came way too late anyway and didn't really fix the major issues, depending how you look at it it made shit worse. didn't the themepart-starting area came with patch 1 only to completely confuse players since the mainland was almost a different game?

>getting one shot by a level 1 Yubo.

that shit was fucking hilarious, especially when you remember yubos also had a pee animation. imagine getting fucked by the very first mob in the starting area the size of a rat that literally goes r. kelly on your corpse.

>>16661260

>That actually does sound pretty fucking great.

if you got good designers, yeah. if you don't, which is usually the case item drops are "better" for the simple fact shit designers can't fuck it up as much (I mean look at all the games with devs too incompetent to even properly balance items with fixed point budgets).

ryzom's crafting back then had plenty of issues where lots of mats/stats/item types where shit and/or completely pointless, so everybody was crafting the same stuff. and I think ryzom also had wildlife simulation where you could wipe out certain mobs for a time, which was great when you needed certain drops from certain mobs (and as only a few parts where highly desired, it got even worse)

it also highly depends how it's implemented within the rest of the game, how much of a pain is it to get items? not everybody wants to be a crafter and even less want to go balls deep. how easy is it to craft, should shit degrade to the point of destruction (else no need to craft more since everybody has everything etc)? how can a crafter offer his service (can't remember if you could craft for other people right in the window or needed to trade mats for items)? asf

it also means players need to get more involved and that was right around when wow hit it big and even then lot of people were using thott/alla, so any exploration or experimentation (or effort in general) went right out of the window.

shame there is no way to play vanguard any more, they actually tried new stuff with crafting and diplomacy.

>>16661128

>add xiv to the list

one of the reasons I stopped playing. game has some neat shit but a lot of designs are fucking outdated by now. can't deal with the whole wow "every new expansion invalidates every other content" setup anymore, monster-pen overworld that's dead once you outlevel it and other stuff, weird system interaction that feel clunky at best etc.

Osrs, Jagex are completely and utterly incompotent they have somehow managed to run the game into the ground twice, its really quite impressive how badly they handle the game

>>16599421

< Release Kelvin Constitution in a Lockbox

< Release T6 Constitution/D7 in a Promotional R&D Pack

< Release Crossfield in a Lockbox

< Release Mirror Crossfield in a Promotional R&D Pack

< Release Discovery Constitution/D7 in a Promotional R&D Pack

> And the players loved it because they can grind Admiralty on 50-100 alts every day and earn the ships.

https://sto.gamepedia.com/Special_Requisition_Choice_Pack_-_Tier_6_Promotional_Ship_Choice_Pack

Each one of these ships cost $300-$400 for a single character unlock.

Tfw WildStar

>>16662493

Because of the "its better with friends" shit that everyone says. If you removed the friends aspect of mainstream wow or xiv, you would play it once at best and then it would sit and rot. Mmos are shit at what they do. Anyone who says they are mechanically hard probably always sucked at dance dance revolution

NexusTK

Lunia Online at some point became region locked to korea or some shit.

It was interesting at the time with the "rebirth" system where you hit the level cap and then get to reset to lv 1 but you get a super ability based on your class.

I think you could do that up to three times or so.

There's private servers but I never bothered.

Cabal Online was really fun but at some point I think they had no idea what to do with that anymore and Cabal 2 rolled out in korea at some point leaving out my favorite class so I didn't bother with it.

I also have very vague memories of playing Flyff but I have no idea what I did in there other than flying around.

On a less related note, I remember mostly wasting time on Grand Chase and Exteel. I know Grand Chase is still around but I really miss Exteel a lot.

>>16666057

It was long after trans classes though, it was renewal with "advanced" classes or whatever the fuck they called 3-1 and 3-2

trannies still get the bullet

>>16663560

>one of the few things they did right

No, endless gear progression is a fundamentally flawed game concept as its value rapidly diminishes once you got whatever gear tier is currently on top. It's the easy way out in PvE endgame literally every developer I've ever seen chooses to take over actual PvE endgame.

What do people say? PvE can't have endgame apart from endless grinding for better stats and rarer skins? Fuck right off I say. If someone would really put their mind to it, they could create a virtual habitat for players to affect and change through play. Hell, GW1 had that in its PvP with faction battles that moved the border between Kurzick and Luxon territory, affecting which traders are friendly to you.

This shit can be expanded upon so much, and based around player completing certain mission types over and over to weaken one faction or strengthen another. There are ways to make PvE endgame that is as interesting as whatever you do in a GTA game once you completed the story.

Fuck man, I hate this mindset of power progression being the only metric worth letting players chase in PvE. It ruins so many games.

So, is anyone actually playing any fun mmos right now? I've been playing io games and the occasional emulator and I am craving something a bit more permanent than the end of a round or when I close out of a window

>>16672564

forgot to mention please help, I almost debated redownloading Black Desert, so I'm not being particularly picky right now

>>16672565

FFXIV is in my opinion the best current MMO on the market. There's just a lot to do, and that's what I think I miss most about vanilla to wrath WoW.

>level your primary class until you get bored

>switch to a secondary/fun class and just dick around, do some quests, whatever

>special blue mage "limited" class where the game is all about fighting certain monsters in order to learn their spells until you're capable of taking part in the special BLU-only arena events

>tired of all that shit? level up crafting to make nice furniture for your house or to sell for gorillions of gil

>tired of all that? go sightseeing, because there are sightseeing logs built into the game with special conditions - go to this mountain during a thunderstorm at night and type /lookout for an achievement/special title/special mount etc

>want mounts? join a grindy party finder group - there are nearly always at least five or six up - devoted exclusively to running bosses that drop mounts

That isn't to say there's not a lot to do in, say, Black Desert or anything else. The difference is that the stuff I was doing in FFXIV - like all the stuff above - felt way more fun and way more meaningful than the stupid, grindy and retarded bullshit BDO had me doing - like leaving my game running for 48 hours to fully level my horse simply to have a chance to get a better breed in the next generation, or grinding fishing that they nerfed straight to hell because Chink gold farmers ruined everything.

If you don't want to pay for a subscription (and I don't necessarily blame you) I would honestly and unironically recommend Star Wars: The Old Republic.

>a couple of interesting stories (Imperial Agent plays like Alpha Protocol In Space and outside of two major, retarded story points is genuinely fucking fantastic)

>one of the most interesting and exciting tanking game styles I've ever seen (since most enemies are ranged, you're Force jumping all over the goddamned place, choking motherfuckers, using Force Push to interrupt, screaming so hard you kill people and throwing lightsabers to generate aggro, it feels really good)

>a housing system that has a surprising amount of assets to work with, so if you're autistic you can spend a lot of time having fun playing virtual dollhouse

>animation that is so hilariously bad you can't not laugh at some of the "big dramatic moments" they try so hard to push as serious

>>16672601

I sadly don't have enough disposable income for a subscription, although I'm glad you know the pain that I knew when I was stuck "playing" BDO I think my hours was like 1800, and maybe 10% of that was actual killing shit, everything else was fucking crate running and processing the shit to even make it profitable

Any suggestions on how to get into The Old Republic? I am not too familiar on what Star Wars game is what these days, and wasn't sure if I'd be doing private servers or if the main game was fine

>>16672618

The Old Republic is F2P now, and the expansions are shit so you don't need to worry about them. It's a fine time-waster and Agent is a fantastic story. The biggest downside to it (aside from standard BioWare poz, although it's way less in-your-face than anything they've put out since) is that playing a free account handicaps what you can do. Can't learn Speeder Riding until way later, can't use more than x actionbars, can't unify outfit colors when making a cosmetic setup, etc. To my knowledge there are no private servers.

SWG would be my next recommendation if you haven't already played/gotten tired of it, and personally I like the SWGemu server/community. SWG has a really interesting build-your-own-class mechanic in that if you like rifles, you use a rifle and as you continue gaining Rifle XP you can spend that XP to reach new levels of Rifle proficiency. Certain classes - Combat Medic, for example - requires a certain level of proficiency in certain weapons and skills before you can take that "class". It's brilliant and I find it unbelievably confusing and disappointing that no major MMO since has tried that. And don't even get me started on the completely fucking perfect crafting system. SWG is my favorite MMORPG of all time.

>>16666435

God that shit still hurts. Base The Secret World was fantastic. In every right it should have just been designed as a single player/lobby based co-op RPG. Crazy entertaining world with all kinds of fun shit to explore in every zone. Some of the funnest ARG style puzzles I've seen in a game. Story I actually want to follow and see a conclusion to. The only real negative was the combat was kinda ass, but at least the skill system let you do some sorta fun builds. Then this shit rolls along and fucking ruins everything. Now it's class based, now most of the puzzles are dumbed down for some reason, now some of the coolest bits of the world are empty because 'reasons?'. I just want to play the old game again.

>>16671171

>No, endless gear progression is a fundamentally flawed game concept as its value rapidly diminishes once you got whatever gear tier is currently on top.

but I never said anything about gear progression? farming for shit with the same stats just with a particle effect to show off how much you nolifed is perfectly fine.

>>16672679

>Now it's class based, now most of the puzzles are dumbed down for some reason, now some of the coolest bits of the world are empty because 'reasons?'. I just want to play the old game again.

content should pretty much the same, all I remember is tokio missing at launch and some other stuff that came later. least we got some new stuff.

>should have just been designed as a single player/lobby based co-op RPG.

which would probably have meant less shit and not necessarily better combat or gameplay. sure it's mmo themepark but almost every rpg these days is crossing of checkmarks.

>MMOs you like that went to shit

>MMOs

They all do this. That's what you get in a never ending game of endless expansions until the expansions are so shit the playerbase dies.

>>16672645

I'll give the old Republic a go and see how it is for sure, and if I find it unenjoyable I'll try out SWG because I have heard good things about the combat system on it.Thanks for the suggestions anon, I really just needed something

>>16599688

I hate daily quests because they're the developer telling players how to play the game in a genre that's supposed to be simulated freedom. Rather than having several options of varying money:experience gain ratios that you can try out all day every day, you have one area with the best money and experience gain that's good for one or two hours and after that you may as well not play for the rest of the day because all other gain options are objectively inferior. But don't forget you still owe that subscription fee, goy, even though the devs are artificially limiting your play time.

Any of you niggers know if LOTRO is still worth checking out? I want a comfy MMO to play.

>>16595772

>implying that MMOs were ever good to begin with

>>16673405

TOR's combat is just WoW combat. SWG's combat (if you're playing pre-NGE, as you should) is a weird system called HAM: Health, Action and Mind. Basically you have three pools of health, one for each Health (generalized HP, nearly always your largest pool), Action (movement, nearly always second largest) and Mind (mental health, nearly always the smallest pool by a very large margin).

Health attacks are generally just body shots and are the easiest to land. Action is usually a leg attack and are slightly harder. Mind are head attacks, or diseases (very rare) which are extremely difficult to land. This is probably the most elegant combat system I've seen in keeping various weapon classes balanced. If you just attack your target without aiming your shot the system basically rolls dice to see where you've hit, and the highest roll determines which pool you damage (assuming you hit at all). What sets more proficient warriors aside is that they unlock Leg Shot, Head Shot etc and now you can pick and choose which pool you want to damage. This also is affected by your target's armor: is your target wearing heavy body armor but no helmet? Go for the head. Is your target a creature whose head is barely visible? Go for the body.

>>16674378

That system sounds pretty neat actually. Speaking of TOR though, I'm apparently stuck having my computer barely existing just moments after I hit play, and it's rough seeing people from 2012 complain about the same issue.

>>16674378

you forgot "if you pvp hope you don't get ganked by someone spamming eyeshot"

>>16596837

>>16599074

>RO pre-renewal

>ToS

Meine negeren.

I am still

HELLA

buttmad I didn't get to play ToS with my former RO buddies.

but then again, I didn't have 2 kids thinking about third, when I was playing

I am still good friend with 5 or so or my RO guild buddies. We were shitposters extraordinaires. No other guild was as badly prepared to WoE as we were (eating aloe going through defenses that you have farmed for you and your buddy with your double siroma icebolt supernovice 2 hours before guildwar) and has achieved as many successful covert shitposting ops as we did (killing recalling stalker GM of a biggest guild with a properly randomozed Gospel (1hp effect plus 4k irresistible dmg), sneaking ourselves via jumping tae kwon ranker with 50k hp, recalling and breaking the imp via a FS gypsy, allowing an offguildmember with a smug icon to recap a highly contested castle at the end of WoE (and steal all OCA afterwards). Or farming morocc rings with strawberry eating starglads, afk farming hydra cards on sunken ship with a hat that procced grand cross on hit (and decimating hydra card market afterwards bringing price down tenfold and inducing immense whale butthurts who have bought all our cards on a market price for about a month before they discovered we were doing that shit). Or like I made a shield-based paladin who engaged in a custom open PVP that allowed displacement effects (you warped in? Fuck off back to the warp) who was dealing next to no damage but pushed the fuck out of everyone. Or how my buddy made a 100 MDEF Lord Knight, and was annoying the fuck out of all 150dex instacasters by running around unaffected by their spells. Or how I made a fullbuster gunslinger that destroyed the fuck out of everything pve vulnerable to silver bullets provided good bragi was around by spamming 10-20k fullbusters with no cd while every other farming party was wondering what the fuck is this (money wise, it was not worth it, but I didn't care for money, I wanted to do silly shit, and the game allowed me). Or how I camped warp spots of rival mvp farmers with my supernovice, and was putting warps there so they would immediately fuck off back to Prontera, or some bumfuck nowhere once they move (bonus points if they forgot to restock on wings - some did), or spamming Pneuma on Valkyrie Randgris.

The game itself wasn't even good, but the human interaction aspects (plus some minor private server customizations) allowed me to experience the most MMO joy out of every other MMO I played.

>>16662593

Those wildy updates were the 9/11 for many people. They were never the same after that.

>>16673483

>lotro

probably still people playing, comfy af but prepare to open your wallet or grind for content.

eso gives me the same comfy feels just running around collecting shit and questing.

>>16674378

>TOR's combat is just WoW combat.

shit wow combat, dunno if the the devs just suck or made it on purpose to make it look more than it is. which means it has skill bloat out the fucking ass and combos/reactions other games would consolidate or at least let you macro it. jedi knight was especially bad in that regard.

>>16674475

stop playing games with shit progression.

>the point is noone wants it, they cater to a amde up audience

people buy it so there is obviously demand, "you think you do, but you don't" is just retarded (because people obviously NEVER asked for flying mounts, right?)

>>16675127

Just to warn you, as someone that played a little bit back in the day, expect to have your access to content cut way off around level 2-3 unless you start shelling out real money.

Absolutely loved Lord of the Rings online before the first expansion. It was nice to finally have a group centric mmorpg instead of the usual eq/wow raid treadmill bullshit with few but well balanced classes all build around doing specific role. It truly felt like every update made the game better and better by adding more group story content, tweaks to exisitng content, more group quests, dungeons and new zones and even few raids. Fuck even crafting was actually useful which is very rare in themepark mmorpgs.

But then the fucking Moria hit, I didn't have problem with the actual zones themselves since they were mostly great but amount of bullshit the expansion added was total deathblow to the game.

>new super op runemaster class sharted all over the lore and was both the best healer and the best dps with a simpe stance swap which was at odds with rigid class=role system game was build on

>dungeons were all just 30 min rush zones instead of long epics much more fitting to the IP

>radiance gating meant crafted gear became utterly useless instantly

>legendary weapon lottery was one of the most brutal grinds I ever saw

>traits were streamlined to simple lines removing all fun customization that existed previously

>stats were changed from % to "ratings" deleting unique but powerful items (like good old Captains Arm for example) and made everything feel like generic wow gear

>every update after Moria launch focused more and more on solo content at the cost of group content

>"non wow" features like housing didn't get any updates

After all these years I'm still fucking mad

>>16661097

>>16663348

What exactly did patch one change, and how was it arcadey before? Getting one-shot by the weakest mob in the game sounds hilarious, pls tell me more

Warhammer

Star Wars Galaxies

>>16716993

oh and Age of Conan

>>16596515

>Playing several private servers on and off since Big Bang made me realize there wasn't anything good about old Maple aside from the fun memories I had.

I did the same thing with Maple Royals. Once the gimmick of being a 2D side scrolling MMO wore off, I couldn't ignore Maple Story being among the top Most Barebones MMO. Which is a shame, because I think the only thing it lacks is making parties viable for "normal" grinding in addition to Bossing, Party Quests, and Leeching. Something where you'd still get less experience from EXP sharing, but save tons of money on having to use significantly less potions, if at all. Maple Story doesn't do this because chugging barrels of MP potions to fuel attack skills is mandatory no matter what. Also, having a dedicated buffing and/or debuffing class that allows players to take on monsters one tier ahead of what they can fight solo so they can get a head start on collecting loot from the next tier and expand their grinding options. Maple Story has the Cleric class for healing, but all of the game's buffs and debuffs are spread throughout all the classes and there is no class that only does buffs and/or debuffs.

I think Ragnarok Online accomplishes these two goals very well and is probably the Gold Standard on how parties should function in MMO's. So I'm now playing Origins RO instead.

>>16676077

stats should have had some sort of cap to ensure that players could comfortably start in an aging world and not be a literal year of sitting on your ass playing h&h24/7+ botting on six clients behind. Then we have the fact that modern hafen pvp is "sprint away from the enemy with 8 waterskins for several hours"

I had only played World of Warcraft and to be honest, it was always shit. It just took me a while to realize it. It felt more like an unpaid job than a fun game.

No MMOs for me ever.

>>16596235

>Phantasy Star

>fantasy theme shit in a series whose draw has always been sci-fi

It's always had elements of both.

>localization will cause JP version to stop doing collabs

Absolute bullshit. You're one of the cucks that fled to another ship if you believe any of this drivel.

>>16725063

This has always been a problem with H&H, all the way back to world 1 as far as I can tell, and Jorb & Loftar just don't care. The fact that any player with enough stats could punch down your palisade and shitstomp you with no chance of retaliation or even escape led to just that. World after world was full of villages cowering in obscure corners of the map in the hopes that no one would stumble across them, while bored russkies with too much time and too much autism ground up to over 400 strength roamed the world looking for Westerners to dumpster.

The Secret World.

Shame, I was planning on playing it after I was done with some games. Never really got into it.

>>16747889

secret world legends isn't too bad. combat got streamlined (less skills, less freeform, but also less clunky), but for a simple playthrough it should be more than enough.

>>16683996

I too played LOTRO a shit ton. Fornost and Carn-dum were like whole cities, very reminiscent of vanilla wow and huge dungeons like blackrock depths. I actually think Mines of Moria wasn't too bad, you saw the game had begun to go down but most players feel MoM was the game's peak. Siege of Mirkwood is when it really began to plummet though, introduction of F2P with a Pay to win cashshop that nickel and dimes you incessantly. Skirmishes which were just poorly scripted, a foretaste to their greatest blunder Riders of Rohan where the key draw of the expansion (mounted combat) to this day is buggy as all hell and doesn't even work.

Hopefully when LOTRO gets shut down, people will host a private server that will be packed with people. Sadly though it's extremely unlikely anyone has vanilla shadow of angmar or mines of moria code - still, I'd play the game again if there was a very active server if only for the RP potential.

Ffxi

>>16749257

How about that abessya expansion. :^)

Played ESO for several years, it got boring as shit. Played WoW vanilla less than that, it also got boring. BDO has the best character models, but it's boring as shit. Played TOR for two seconds before getting bored. SWG vanilla was a nightmare world but one I kind of want to return to, how is my Mon Calamari sand farmer on Tattooine doing?

>>16749205

Some of the most fun I ever had was finding two other guys in that game and we decided to form a bard troupe. We went around looking for people who were questing or gathering, then we would play a song (The game has commands that allow everyone to start playing a song from a text file simultaneously when the party leader types a command, this also allows you to play different parts for different instruments) and cheer them on, telling them how heroic they were. Nearly everyone ran away.

>>16595772

Mabinogi

>Medieval fantasy game with no bullshit class system

>You could have one character to learn every skill available if you wanted

>It have a private farm system so you didn't have to spend time in dungeons looking for specific kind of weed that might or might not appear to make drugs

<I admit that it have a retarded pet system

<The golem you can summon is also a retarded piece of shit that must be modded to work

>Comprehensivle list of dungeons with increasingly hard difficulty yet they also have passes to harder versions

<The original devs bailed out after g3

<NEXON a jew company took the game

<The game code has been progressively stained by constantly changing teams

<The game with PS1 graphics was simple enough that it could run in a potato, now is on the way of needing 8gb to run while still having PS1 graphics

<The founds go from Mabinogi to MapleStory JEWXON precious child

< From "Your fantasy life" to "You anime life"

<Kirito was officially and unironically added into the game

<The devs want to shut down Mabinogi in favor of a Mabinogi-themed Vindictus secuel with separated classes

C21

>Post-apocaliptic mecha game

>Insanely customizable mechas, no Gundam bullshit

>You can be sent to other planets

>The planets are made of sets of areas and dungeons

>You have a base to do story missions, yet areas in the planet also have dungeons and field bosses

>You can kill bosses and get their parts

>Sainta is temporarely obtainable in x-mas and you can kill enemies with him

>One of the bosses is a Fuhrer and you can get it's parts

<The company showed their true colors as japanese jews

<English version is a watered down streamlined plotless shitfest that quickly died

<Cyber$tep the devs and publishers decided to let the bugs acumulate in favor of pursuing mobile gacha shit

<The data of the voice clips on the new bots acumulate until the game crashes

<The game now randomly crash

<Shitty PvP spin-off and even shittier PvP secuel of the spin-off

GetAmped 2

>Fighting game

>Superior button for strong attacks and button for weak attacks

>Wearable gear is called accessory and 1 use items are called weapons

>In-game reskin feature

>Dungeons which turns the game from a PvP into a dungeon crawler brawler

>You don't only have to only buy gear, if you want you can craft it

<The game is developed and published by Cyber$tep so everything above counts except the sever which probably still exist

<Getting poisoned causes the player to both be lagged and rubberband HARD

<Devs abandoned this game to make an oversimplified mobile gachashit version of this game

Onigiri

>Combat similar to PSO2 but without the class shit, the weapons you obtain have built-in sets of skills that you can level up and/or change/duplicate

>You keep track of the skills you've used and their levels

>You fight a 1:1 recreation of ancient demons

<Cyber$tep is the dev team and the publisher so almost every bad point i already mentioned applies

<They even tried to make a mobage when that was a thing and failed spectacularly

<It have the same poison status effect as the fighting game, now it can take 10 to 20% of your HP and it stacks

>>16750043

Screw the faces, these armor designs are just painful to watch.

>>16676077

H&H is less of a game that went to shit and more of a game that has potential but the design philosophies of the developers prevent it from being turned into a good game. Of course the devs don't care about improving the game, the updates are rarely anything other than new hats or new items/buildings that don't really serve any purpose outside of cosmetics. I bet mining/blacksmithing and farming are still hot RNG garbage requiring stupid amounts of time commitment to get the smallest gains.

>>16750142

shame what happened to that game. I loved running around as the battle priest class. smackin heretics left and right while staying alive the whole time

>>16596952

Check out Everquest 2. From hitting for hundreds in the original game to hitting for billions in the current version.

>>16672564

city of heroes.

>>16751626

> these armor designs are just painful to watch.

because the shoulders are not twice the head size, no midriff and doesn't look straight out of a gay pride parade?

those are also the default racial armors on a skinny frame you literally get for free, are you honestly basing your argument on vendor trash leveling gear?

>>16752795

>doesn't look straight out of a gay pride parade?

Well, it kind of does. It's hardly aesthetic and doesn't take from real life examples. It's just bland.

>>16755466

MapleStory DS and MapleStory: Girl of Destiny. Unsurprisingly, MapleStory becomes a good game when it stops being an MMO. I'm almost certain the same could be said for any other MMO.

>>16753617

>game with more grounded aesthetics

>leveling armor not looking bland

feel free to go back to gw2 then

ALL OF THEM