a903fa No.16391346
Why are spears, the most common weapons of their time so under-represented in video games?
84e7c7 No.16391424
>>16391346
Yea its kind of ironic considering how most of human history utilized spears as reach and distance will always be superior to swords. Im guessing its probably due to the idea that the romans legionaries used swords to beat the greek phalanx/pike but that was because they had arguably the best teamwork/discipline in the ancient world. Plus you dont see elite type vidya characters use spears alot (aside from elves maybe), instead you will see the shield sword combo because its more "showy" and i guess compared to a spear which you can really only thrust in a straight line they want more move combos i guess.
82c1ec No.16391463
Because westerners have a more heavily veiled version of Japanese "5000 TIME NIPPON FOLDED STEEL" sword fetishry and think someone being impaled through the liver with a sharp stick is boring. The fact most depictions of ancient warfare are nothing like actual ancient warfare don't help either. A depiction of an actual frontline battle would probably be pretty intense but doesn't fit the whole gestalt of MC focused western storyshit.
c15670 No.16391473
Vidya spears are either the most boring piece of shit or they turn the wielder into a cuhrayzee kungfu stripper.
a903fa No.16391479
>>16391473
There's nothing wrong with stripperific characters.
661929 No.16391490
>>16391346
Swords look cooler to most people. Though personally I'm more of an axe/halberd sort of guy, but I can't hate on spears or lances.
88d4cf No.16391491
If you have spears that can slash at max range with wide sweeps and decent damage the other weapons seem like shit or get dumb techniques. So spears often get bad movesets or shit damage so that axes, swords and other things can compete.
14df2f No.16391497
Why aren't these more represented in video games?
a903fa No.16391513
>>16391490
You can do some sweet things with spear design.
>>16391497
FPS really need to have bayonets more often.
88d4cf No.16391526
>>16391497
Design a better spear than this
470c2d No.16391541
>>16391513
Can you call it spear when it has blade on the side tho? Or is it just installed there for defense/distraction?
a903fa No.16391554
>>16391541
I guess by then it'd be a Halberd. Which are also not that prevalent in games.
7eb7b9 No.16391555
Because I'm hoarding them all and I told them not to include it to make them more rare and jack up the prices. I'll be the MetalJesusRocks of medieval weaponry I tell you.
0474bb No.16391562
>>16391346
if i had to guess, swords became associated with kings and heros since king arthur and excalibur.
you know whats messed up? fan art of this disgaea valkyrie usually depicts her with a sword despite being one of the best spearmen in the game and a merely competent swordsman.
099f63 No.16391663
What annoys me the most is that the few times a vidya actually has spears they tend to make them into 2-handed weapons making you unable to use shields and to make it worse attack animations tend to end up like you'd be swinging a fucking quarterstaff or something instead of… poking with the pointy end!
d00a4d No.16391717
Because most of the time you're fighting alone in close quarters against multiple enemies which is bad for spears.
db2fc9 No.16391732
Because it's boring, you'd only be able to poke things to death. With swords you can make all kinds of "cool" looking slashes and swings and shit even though they're unrealistic, but since the vast majority of people have no idea how to fight with a sword you can get away with making sword attacks like that in vidya compared to making someone swing a spear wildly. This can be circumvented if you make it a blade on a stick like a halberd or naginata rather than just a plain ol' pointy stick.
234c67 No.16391744
>>16391732
>Because it's boring, you'd only be able to poke things to death
Imagine knowing nothing about medieval combat and yet saying the only thing spears are capable of is poking
d04505 No.16391757
>>16391744
Well enlighten us mate. Because from what I can see you're only other options is throwing (which means you lose your weapon) or using a spear like it's a quarterstaff which doesn't seem all that practical for killing your enemy.
a41450 No.16391773
>>16391732
>you'd only be able to poke things to death
>Just poking
>Not slashing with a broad blade spear
>Not throwing it most fun weapon in Ghost of Sparta tbh
>Not charging with it
>Not alternating between poking and slashing with the speartip and pummeling with the opposite end like a shaolin monk
>Not spinning it (and finishing with a fancy thrust)
>Not halfswording with it (which you can do)
Use your imagination a little, Anon.
0474bb No.16391789
>>16391757
knock them off their feet and you might change your mind
c67a5d No.16391807
The chivalric culture of the knight bearing the sword is just that strong in Western culture. If everyone had been ruled by the Norse church it might have been different, but thanks to Jesus knights had to use a cruciform weapon. Swords stopped being practical in warfare after metal armor became widely used. Hell, they nearly stopped after iron wacs swapped over to from bronze and Europe basically had to level up their metallurgy skills. But swords go beyond even Christian symbology. Swords were a sign of high status even in Germanic tribes.
205b76 No.16391817
>>16391513
Fucking Gae Bolg
Fucking Zodiac Relic Quest
Fucking week of non-stop 9-5 grind and millions in gil
I still got my Longinus Zeta motherfuckers
db2fc9 No.16391820
>>16391773
>second pic has a glaive
>third pic is a dude with a fucking AXE
Are you retarded anon? Spears are polearms with a POINTY END ONLY, if it's a bladed end, then it's a glaive or whatever other regional variant of it.
205b76 No.16391828
>>16391541
Those aren't blades. In game lore is they are sort of like wings to help a dragoon steer themselves when are doing a crash dive from a couple hundred feet in the air
0ed945 No.16391833
>>16391346
You should play Kingdom Hearts 3. The best weapon that most players end up using is a spear called the Wheel of Fate.
c67a5d No.16391842
>>16391820
>backtalking polearm autism
Anon, I'm warning you right now, you need to back off this particular subtopic or the thread will not be about anything else.
d34c82 No.16391882
Papa Nier had some fun spears shame the combat is pretty boring.
e40ec2 No.16391902
I love a girl who has a huge spear and know how to use it.
Naginatas are even better though
bcf3e2 No.16391903
>>16391491
>>16391807
Theses posts sum it up nicely. Spears would be too OP if handled correctly. People also like swords because of the history and culture that surround them.
db2fc9 No.16391904
>>16391842
I don't give a shit, spears are POINTY END ONLY and are thus FUCKING BORING because you can only do GAY ASS POKES and OP asked about spears only because he's a faggot as OP always is
The patrician's choice of polearm in vidya is a lucerne, is there any game other than mountainblade and dank souls which has this kino weapon?
9955c5 No.16391919
>>16391842
that first image is better than any porn to me. Do you have anymore anon?
bcf3e2 No.16391938
>>16391904
I feel like Kingdom Come had a weapon like it.
a41450 No.16391944
>>16391820
Glaives and poleaxes are spear weapons, dipshit-sama. Spear is a general term that, along with lances, falls under the polearm umbrella.
9955c5 No.16391951
>>16391842
found more, seems to be from some guy named Bashford Dean
db2fc9 No.16391956
>>16391944
>nigger doesn't know what he's talking about
Glaives and axes aren't "spear weapons" which is some bullshit term you just made up, the umbrella they all fall under is polearm, spears have a P O I N T Y E N D, not a bladed one.
a41450 No.16391973
>>16391956
I posted the wrong pic on that third one, I meant to post this.
>spears have a P O I N T Y E N D, not a bladed one
With very rare exceptions, every fucking blade at the end of a pole weapon is pointed, sperglord. You think they weren't used for thrusting?
a17dbc No.16391981
>>16391904
Fuck you.
Spears are the best.
Where is my game in which I play as a horseman and trample over peasant infantry and tear them with my lance.
e40ec2 No.16391984
>>16391973
Durr, that's obviously a hammer because it's got a blunt striking surface on it.
db2fc9 No.16391990
>>16391981
Play mountainblade, get yourself a lance, get yourself a posse of Swadian Knights and you've got the true nobleman who tramples peasants under his feet experience
a17dbc No.16392007
>>16391990
I never tried it before, but I guess this might be as good a time as any.
Thanks.
a41450 No.16392010
>>16391984
>A spear weapon isn't a spear weapon when there's something on the side
You know medieval weapons were often combined and called many names for a fucking reason, right?
A poleaxe is a spear weapon WITH an axe.
A bec de corbin or a Lucerne hammer is a spear weapon WITH a pick AND a hammer.
A glaive is a spear weapon WITH a gladius (sword), which is where the fucking term derives from, and what it was used for.
14df9c No.16392193
>>16392007
Make sure you get Warband. That's essentially the re-release of the original game with more features and content. And be prepared to misjudge encounters and get taken prisoner quite a few times.
bcf3e2 No.16392243
>>16392193
I have a copy of Warband but its the release version. Am I missing anything by not getting an updated one?
9955c5 No.16392250
>>16392243
Mods, and some updates that make the game more compatible with modern systems. General bugfixes as well, but I'm not sure of any gamebreaking ones that came with release. But more than anything, the mods make getting an updated version worthwhile.
2eac74 No.16392253
>>16392010
Spear is a spear and pole weapon is a pole weapon, you're just coming up with retarded shit.
e40ec2 No.16392266
>>16392253
>It's a Hammer with a spear and axe attached
>No! It's an Spear with a hammer and axe attached!
>No! It's an Axe with a spear and hammer attached!
db2fc9 No.16392275
>>16392243
Get the updates, they make the game run better.
bcf3e2 No.16392280
>>16392250
>>16392275
What version is the latest Warband? I saw a few different versions on torrent sites.
bcf3e2 No.16392308
>>16392280
nvm found it :)
d2274d No.16392309
>>16392010
A spear is a type of pole arm or pole weapon. All spears are pole arms, all pole arms are not spears or "spear weapons". Poleaxes, Glaives, Bec de corbins and Lucerne hammers all belong to the category of "pole arm", they are not spears.
This is like saying that a rifle is a "long pistol", and a shotgun is a "spread pistol". They are all types of guns, a category to which pistols also belong. Pistol is not the category for guns, and spear is not the category pole weapons.
442d54 No.16392369
>>16391346
Aren't spears mainly useful for mounted combat? Games are usually close combat.
31440a No.16392374
People who've played the game know exactly what I'm talking about.
db2fc9 No.16392391
>>16392374
80% of Revenants after a certain point in NG had this fucking armor it drove me up the wall though it makes sense since spears are EZ mode in NG
31440a No.16392395
>>16391973
>that emblem
>those colors
e40ec2 No.16392439
>>16392369
>Aren't spears mainly useful for mounted combat?
They're mainly used by footsoldiers because they require very little training and are extremely effective when used in formation so long as you can protect their flank.
82a3c1 No.16392440
>>16391346
swords are more heroic looking while spears are for the rank & file
we still occasionally get a spear, staff, or other interesting weapon on a hero though
e40ec2 No.16392453
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16392440
>we still occasionally get a spear, staff, or other interesting weapon on a hero though
fb53bb No.16392813
>>16391346
Anon, you're talking about spears but you posted a sword with a very long wooden handle
826ab9 No.16392814
>Game has poleaxe.
>Character holds it left hand forward.
Ruined!
bf09ce No.16392885
>>16392440
/thread, basically.
Spears are an infantry weapon, used in close formations with many other soldiers. Most video games are single player, hero-on-a-journey type stories that don’t feature that kinda stuff. Plus, swords are much easier to craft interesting movesets around, regardless of how actual historical fighting was like.
7eb7b9 No.16392907
>>16391562
>fan artists
>actually playing the games they use to pad their online profiles
e56bdd No.16392940
>>16392395
Makes me think me of Iron Warriors despite the fist Icon Ironically
31440a No.16393074
>>16392940
That crossed my mind too. Didn't there some of the Fists defect to the Iron Warriors at one point?
e56bdd No.16393138
>>16393074
Dunno, I do know there were a decent amount of Iron Warrior Loyalists who then Joined the Ultramarines
a903fa No.16393439
>>16391497
Here you go Anon, that weapon was in Bloodborne.
2a31a1 No.16393478
>>16391807
Seems to me it would be very easy to make a spear cruciform. I heard at some point that swords were popular with knights because they cost a shitload more to make than spears and thus served as a status symbol.
6029ae No.16393488
>>16391956
you're the sort of faggot that made D&D add a billion different types of nearly identical weapons because god forbid they just say a fucking basic bitch knife can do both piercing and slashing damage depending on how you use it.
05e720 No.16393500
>>16391463
How should an actual frontline battle look/be filmed anon?
31440a No.16393503
>>16393439
That weapon was in real life too.
3ccd79 No.16393510
>>16391346
Play odin sphere leifthrasir, gwendolyn the valkyrie uses one, she used it like a magic staff in the PS2 original but in the PS4/vita remake she got a ton of new moves and actually stabs people with it rather than just bludgeoning and summoning tornadoes/creating magical explosions.
31440a No.16393514
>>16393478
>Seems to me it would be very easy to make a spear cruciform
Aye.
a6db12 No.16393523
because spears were more used in actual warfare, short swords and other swordy swords were used in 1 on 1 scuffles and the like
>>16391717
yep
03337b No.16393542
Maces are pretty misrepresented. In games where they are separate weapons in use from swords, they're usually either slower and more damaging. In games where they're in the same usage, they're nothing more than a new model. Maces should always ragdoll your opponent if he's not wearing enough armor. Hit them in the side and they fall down, hit them in the head and they fall down and start flopping around, hit them in the leg and they fall down, etc. etc. If you're on a horse the mace is even better, because you have even more force behind the blow. In wizardry games, mace weapons should have the best capacity for magic, as the magic could be focused into the density of the mace.
a6db12 No.16393551
>>16393542
games that bother to take armor into account giving maces/axes bonuses vs armor, whereas sword is put down as "slashing" and typically gets higher crits as bonus
a6db12 No.16393562
>>16393523
another thing to keep in mind, is that swords are simply easier to lug around than a 6 foot spear, and probably way lighter than any mace, axe, or halberd
also give you range advantage vs dagger wielding thugs
31440a No.16393580
>>16393542
>>16393551
>>16393562
>using plebeian swords, spears, maces, or daggers
>not using the vastly superior ball axe
e40ec2 No.16393601
>>16393580
Back in my day, we didn't need no fancy high-tech "iron" weaponry. A well placed buffalo jaw bone to the side of the head was all you needed, and we killed each other just fine.
2a31a1 No.16393607
>>16393542
>weapon doesn't do as much damage in game as in real life
That's true of almost everything mate. Any blow from any weapon has the capacity to incapacitate a man. A sword slash, a dagger stab, a gunshot, anything. Games invented HP bars because it makes combat more fun. Maces shouldn't feel special about it.
But regarding the stunning properties of blunt weapons, monster hunter probably does it the best. Hit the monster's head with a hammer and you'll stun it after enough blows, along with a generally better ability to stagger than other weapons.
22f415 No.16393627
>>16391346
Because you have to carry a spear everywhere you go and they're very cumbersome. You can't just put it in a sheath while you go exploring like you can with a sword.
4960b7 No.16393640
i've only in the last couple of years appreciated spears as much as I should have, they are sick weapons, as history shows
>>16391424
i'm no military historian but the roman legions used swords because Rome was hilly as fuck and phalanx didn't work as well in that kind of terrain
e40ec2 No.16393645
>>16393627
>A sturdy walking stick with a knife on the end is too cumbersome to carry in the woods.
What?
Maybe if you're crawling through the brambles, but anyone with brains is going to be following a game trail.
6029ae No.16393648
>>16393627
>put sheath on spear head. Congrats, now you have walking stick
e80fa0 No.16393650
>>16393627
Why should that matter in vidya? You just put it on your back and be done with it for awhile. I remember FF12 doing this with no issue,
a6db12 No.16393657
>>16393645
>>16393650
it depends on context. in the woods or in the country-side you're probably taking a spear around on back for game or leaving it on your horse, but if we're talking in-doors or in the city, the weapon of choice is either a dagger or a short sword for defense
4052c2 No.16393675
>>16391526
That there is a harpooin matey
4052c2 No.16393676
>>16391526
A harpoon fuck i do know how to spell i swear
47a23b No.16393738
>>16391346
Because it forces developers to figure out how to balance them. Unlike your typical weapons like swords and maces all you would need to do is apply different damage types or numbers. They could even share the same animations. Whereas with Spears you will have to factor in it's range and it's application of damage which also determines the type of animations it may have. Gonna just have spears just be all poke? Have sweeping attacks? Throwable? Ect.
In other words, outside or turn based RPGs, its too complicated for majority of developers.
442d54 No.16393771
>>16393738
>it's range and it's application of damage
>its too complicated
0474bb No.16393787
>>16393738
>>16393771
can you imagine? its someones job to figure out how to pay animators less
2903b7 No.16393824
>>16393787
What a repulsive life.
8044d6 No.16393846
If you take a spear and cut it in half, you get sort of a machete it it is bladed.
If you have mostly a blade though it becomes a glaive, which are considered feminine weapons for some reason.
2a31a1 No.16393891
>>16393846
>which are considered feminine weapons for some reason.
I'm assuming you're referring to the naginata. I don't think there's any physical reason it became a weapon for women, samurai just wanted to train their noblewomen in combat for social status' sake, and the naginata just happened to be what they went with. Maybe because a girl can use the reach to gain the upper hand, or maybe she looks more hot with her hands on a shaft or something.
a903fa No.16393911
>>16393846
>>16393891
i'm not sure it's considered a feminine weapon.
6dc24c No.16393917
>>16393771
>it is range and it is application of damage
>"too complicated" is possessed by it
e40ec2 No.16393980
>>16393911
>i'm not sure it's considered a feminine weapon.
I've never heard it referred to as such. It's become associated with being a feminine weapon due to popular media, but that's about as flimsy as archery being a girls weapon because of the Hunger Games.
Daimyo did train their female retainers to fight, IIRC, but it was less to do with them being capable or looking hot with a weapon - and more of an honor and loyalty thing. They were a last line of defense when all else was lost and nobody else was left standing to defend the castle. Everybody fought for the honor of the Daimyo. Even then, only noble women of the Samurai classes ever got real significant training with actual weapons. Most were just expected to grab knifes or clubs or whatever was handy and do whatever they could to kill the invaders.
They were gearing up to do just that at the end of WWII in the case of an invasion. They'd filled their heads with Bushido code bullshit that they'd turned their backs on and betrayed ages ago when it was "inconvenient" - in order to convince their citizens to either kill themselves or suicide run a GI with a butcher knife and die gloriously for your Emperor.
251a8e No.16394043
>>16391773
>Tadakatsu Honda.png
Is there some GundamxMusou crossover I'm missing? Where is this from?
2903b7 No.16394077
>>16393980
Bushido, like all warrior codes, was originally just a loose set of common sense guidelines that carried as much weight as Poor Richard's Almanac and only got codified into ironbound laws once the culture that produced it started to die. Hagakure was written by a clerk.
>>16394043
Sengoku Basara
31440a No.16394089
>>16393891
>>16393911
There is actually a male naginata and a female naginata, O-naginata and ko-naginata respectively. And then there is the big dog of the group, the bisento.
Also somewhat related it the nagamaki, which can't quite decide whether it's a polearm or a sword.
251a8e No.16394093
2903b7 No.16394117
>>16394093
It's alright, better than most musous.
db2fc9 No.16394160
>>16394093
If you like lawnmower games then you'll like Sengoku Basara
251a8e No.16394165
>>16394160
I do indeed like lawnmower games. Spirit of Sanada I found was great fun.
9edef5 No.16394170
Spears are hard to carry with you all the times.
db2fc9 No.16394176
>>16394165
Then you'll like Sengoku Basara. One difference is that while in Samurai Warriors you're not expected to be everywhere at all times and are expected to perform certain objectives so that your allies can be even marginally useful, in Sengoku Basara you just mow lawns and don't really have to concern yourself with how your allies are doing too much because the maps are so compact.
fb24b5 No.16394192
>>16392885
>swords are much easier to craft interesting movesets around, regardless of how actual historical fighting was like.
Come on bruh. If you wanna do CUHRAZY action game shit it's still so east with a spear. Fucking use the spear as a vaulting device for aerial combos, long sweeping vertical or horizontal swipes,. poke combos, hilt bashes, throwing the damn thing. Devs just go with swords because they have cool factor, not because other weapon types are limiting gameplay.
251a8e No.16394196
>>16394192
>Hilt Bashes
I've always been curious, were there any spears with a counterweight at the opposing end that one could use as a crushing tool? I've always had that idea in mind that I wanted to use if I ever stopped procrastinating /agdg/ projects.
fb24b5 No.16394213
>>16394196
Maybe, but I would imagine due to weight and leverage it would make it very difficult for a real person to use. But video game logic on the other hand…
b95dd7 No.16394227
Spears are one of the reasons this guy is a total bro and one of the best non-canon Zelda characters.
I hope they make him (and HW Zelda, which is by far the hottest and most capable Zelda) official in some capacity later.
a903fa No.16394278
>>16394196
depends on how loosely you define spear
82d7c4 No.16394331
Since we're on the topic of spears, someone please fucking tell me why this thing isn't in a single game.
I absolutely love its style and a single thrust from it must be devastating. Having a blade and the blunt hooks on the sides also made it versatile. It even folds.
I haven't seen a single game with it. What gives? Is it not as effective as it appears? Too obscure? Does the fold cause structural weakness?I can barely find any info on these things at all.
86f90d No.16394333
what if we took a sword…
AND PUT IT ON TOP OF THE STICK!
l wonder why europeans never did something like nagamaki
9ae993 No.16394343
12405e No.16394363
>>16394333
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swordstaff
Europeans made better variations of pole weapons anyway.
86f90d No.16394371
>>16394196
pretty much all of them, in all of history, everywhere in the world except obviously in shitholes like america that didnt discoer metalworking . hell, there are spears WITH OTHER SPEAR mounted on the bottom
>>16394331
thats just ranseur variant. nobody wants to have to code 49 different variants of a polearm
>>16394363
there is hardly any proof they existed. sadly because it would be cool.
9ae993 No.16394375
>>16394333
wouldn't these break quite easily?
ccb35f No.16394390
>>16391807
Swords are an all-round, versatile self-defense and duel weapon.
Their use on the battlefield was limited becaue of armor and cost. A spear is cheaper.
fbacee No.16394398
251a8e No.16394432
>>16394343
It pisses me off how truly epic(in the actual sense of the word) the Iliad and the trojan war was, and how not a single piece of media has captured that magic.
fbacee No.16394436
>>16394408
I have read it and if you think spouting long monologues at your opponents and then listening to their retort is how classical battles were fought you're retarded.
db2fc9 No.16394437
>>16394432
That's because all movies based on epic works end up becoming dime-a-dozen action flicks catered to the lowest common denominator.
86f90d No.16394449
>>16394375
these tended to have an elongated tang, so breaking them was harder then breaking a spear.
they are still cheaper then full on two handers while letting you parry shit, unlike polearms
>>16394432
Tolkien tried. and he did a pretty good job
5f9fa6 No.16394452
9ae993 No.16394455
>>16394436
You must have shit reading comprehension if this is all you got from the battle scenes of the iliad. You must be thinking of Fate Stay Night
db2fc9 No.16394457
>>16394436
t. guy who has never read the Illiad
23475a No.16394477
>>16393627
You could say the same thing about a rifle.
fbacee No.16394496
>>16394455
>>16394457
"Presently the strong hand of fate impelled Tlepolemus, the son of Heracles, a man both brave and of great stature, to fight Sarpedon, so the two, son and grandson of great Zeus, drew near to one another, and Tlepolemus spoke first. "Sarpedon," said he, "councilor of the Lycians, why should you come skulking here - you who are a man of peace? They lie who call you son of aegis-bearing Zeus, for you are little like those who were of his children. Far other was Heracles, my own brave and lion-hearted father, who came here for the horses of Laomedon, and though he had six ships only, and few men to follow him, sacked the city of Ilium and made a wilderness of her highways. You are a coward, and your people are falling from you. For all your strength, and all your coming from Lycia, you will be no help to the Trojans but will pass the gates of Hades vanquished by my hand."
And Sarpedon, captain of the Lycians, answered: "Tlepolemus, your father overthrew Ilium by reason of Laomedon's folly in refusing payment to one who had served him well. He would not give your father the horses which he had come so far to fetch. As for yourself, you shall meet death by my spear. You shall yield glory to myself, and your soul to Hades of the noble steeds."
Thus spoke Sarpedon and Tlepolemus upraised his pear. They threw at the same moment, and Sarpedon struck his foe in the middle of his throat; the spear went right through, and the darkness of death fell upon his eyes.
Took me less than a minute to find a single example in a 300 page Book. I sure do love long monologues and dialogues about and between characters who only appear once and then immediately die.
db2fc9 No.16394498
>>16394496
>not even a paragraph long
>long dialogue
literal niggercattle, go get yourself hooked up to a milking machine
fbacee No.16394514
>>16394498
They're supposed to be fighting shoulder to shoulder in the middle of battle and they've got time to stand there and have a conversation? It takes up more time than it takes for them to fight. Its just tedious reading a bunch of bullshit about nobody characters every other page, especially considering how fast people get killed and how quick the action is.
Achilles kills 5 people a line an these 2 nobodies have all the time in the world to shout at each other?
0474bb No.16394530
>>16394514
back in the old day books cut right to the action and didnt have unskippable cutscenes
14df9c No.16394587
>>16393627
Yeah no one ever had to carry spears for a long time. That never happened.
251a8e No.16394627
So besides musous what games let you extensively use spears?
I'd pirated Nioh a while back but it keeps crashing after the temco logo and it pisses me off that there's like 10 fixes on the steam page and none of them worked. What the fuck.
0474bb No.16394631
a903fa No.16394632
>>16394627
Mount and Blade games. Recommend Warband Particularly.
251a8e No.16394636
>>16394632
The way I saw it I never got spears working in that game unless I were mounted, which I usually disliked.
a903fa No.16394644
>>16394636
You don't need to be mounted to use a spear.
251a8e No.16394647
>>16394644
I know, but they usually just bounced off and felt awkward to use on the ground. I never ended up using them that much unmounted to figure out otherwise.
7bfd4f No.16394652
>>16394647
You have to stop being a baby and look at how the weapon is actually striking, then position yourself so that you hit them while the weapon is moving the fastest. In other words they should be near the edge of your reach generally speaking. It also tends to animate faster if you hold it two handed.
c65baa No.16395081
Swords are phallic. Spears are overcompensating phallic.
5f86d6 No.16395184
>>16391807
The sword has a heroic quility to it in most cultures that developed the appropriate technology. Perhaps because it was typically seen as a weapon of last resort in the age of armored melee combat. Even in Neolithic cultures like the Aztec, the sword-like maculhuitl a paddle shaped club with obsidian blades in the thin striking surface was perhaps venerated as a heroic weapon. It would take a heroic person to win a battle against a well equipped enemy with only a sword.
A modern analogy is the idea of the heroic gunslinger armed only with a pistol. Think Wyatt Earp or the other famous gunslingers of the Old West. While many of them were excellent marksmen with other firearms, their mastery of the pistol is what is most often embellished and retold.
If that analogy makes sense, then the rifle is analagous to the spear, it being a martial weapon best suited to rank and file soldiers. You can't carry a rifle on your person in a concealed manner like you can a pistol. The spear would be immedately obvious whereas a sword could be kept concealed a bit more easily, especially shorter varieties.
7bfd4f No.16395266
>>16395184
That's a good point, although swords have a mythical quality to them that pistols don't. Still, I find it comparable to characters like James Bond who infiltrate and exfiltrate top secret facilities with only a pistol as a weapon.
cfe676 No.16395283
>>16391981
The name of the painting please?
5ead82 No.16395337
>>16391346
depends on the gaym
total war tends to be pretty good with them
5ead82 No.16395340
>>16395283
>what is googly imahg seersch
5bc5d7 No.16395345
GUYS
WHAT IF I TOOK THIS STICK
NO REALLY GUYS LOOK
AND TOOK THIS SPIKE
AND PUT IT ON TOP OF THE STICK
SERIOUSLY THOUGH GUYS
LOOK
0474bb No.16395411
>>16395345
that cool because it let you kill food from further away so it no bite you
5f86d6 No.16395413
>>16395266 (checked)
I think another reason why in Western cultures swords are so revered is due to Arthurian legend. How many old Western RPGs involve a hero retrieving a legendary blade to kill some evil force plaguing the land? For the Japanese it's probably related to the Imperial Regalia the main weapon classes in Okami are based on the mirror, prayer beads, and sword of the regalia and historic master swordsmen like Musashi. That said Zelda's Master Sword falls into the Arthurian camp pulling a sword from a stone, being granted the protection of the gods, it's even called the Blade of Evil's Bane in most games after OoT. There's also a greater reverence for swordsmiths in Japanese media. How often does a JRPG or other similar title have a Muramasa or Masamune sword in the game? More often than not both show up and are extremely powerful endgame weapons. The Golden Sun series technically JRPG had both, with Muramasa being a cursed weapon in line with the myths around the historical smith's weapons while Masamune is just as powerful with no curse.
7bfd4f No.16395435
>>16395420
>being educated is for losers
>420 post number
>no sage
The absolute state of this board.
c9814c No.16395440
>>16395420
>wheredoyouthinkweare.jpg
82d7c4 No.16395457
>>16394371
It was actually the precursor to the ranseur. I agree that you shouldn't code in several of the same weapon, but the spetum sticks out enough that it could be unique if you have the ideas.
Could be slower and have devastating slices and stabs compared to a ranseur. Just like one, it can also take on mounted combatants and deflect enemy weapons.
If the game has physical types, it can easily provide great thrust for the spear, slash for the blade, and blunt for the hooks. It also folds. That alone is enough for it to stick out to a player. Going from neutral to combat and unfolding this thing from your hand or back could be real fun if done stylishly, especially once you hear that satisfying click.
You can't just think of one being a variant. Otherwise there'd be no point to adding different polearms or spears to a game. Same goes for swords or really any kind of weapon.
7d88f6 No.16395534
I had this dream where I had a spear fight with this touhou yokai kind of ghost I found deep in the night inside a forest. The fight was really fun and somehow I raped the ghost afterwards.
I've been into spears ever since.
0474bb No.16395575
>>16395534
anon i think youre a final fantasy character
1985b4 No.16395669
>>16394227
For some reason, your post gave me the idea for a Hyrule Warriors sequel where there's a two player mode, one person plays as Zelda who is responsible for troop placement and commanding, while the other person plays normally as Link.
902474 No.16395707
>>16391346
Because it is too realistic.
There are so many games and movies and medieval fantasy-based things now where 'battles' or wars or even skirmishes are two giant armies getting into a moshpit so the heroes can go ham with swords and cool weapons and moves that it is just taken as standard practice. And because of that, spears have absolutely no place on the battlefield as in that fictional scenario, they make absolutely no sense to carry. They would require a ton of room that would mean needing to create a huge hole of bodies to let the hero spin around with it, or do bizarre fancy moves. In addition, audiences would just ask 'well why doesn't he just cut it apart with his sword?', not understanding the mechanics.
The reason spears were the most common weapon on battlefields and any group-based combat because they were incredibly simple to make, use, and worked with the tactics of the time. When you had two giant armies, they did not break ranks or fuck around in a huge moshpit; lines of guys would meet, poke at eachother with spears until they lost their spear or it broke, then they'd advance a bit closer to try and bash at them with a mace or shorter stick. When the guy in front of you dies, you move up, take his place, and YOU start poking at the other side. Personal skill counted for almost nothing, success was entirely defined by which side held together and didn't break ranks, because the minute you DID, the other side swarms in and around you and cuts you apart while that grouping flees. Which is not fun to watch for modern audiences I guess, or fun to play as in games, so it just never shows up.
tl;dr the spear only makes sense if you are using real-world tactics and general realism in your medium. Since nobody does, the spear makes no sense.
61da3e No.16395806
>>16394636
Try the Viking Conquest expansion, spearsmen are so much better in it since infantry actually form ranks instead of just a line formation. An equal number of spearmen wins against higher ranked swordmen everytime.
fd2554 No.16396114
>>16395707
Confirmed for not understanding how polearms work.
bd5940 No.16396140
>make weapons realistic
<spears become the most OP weapon
>make weapons based off legend and fantasy
<spears become the most OP weapon
And that's why we can't have nice things.
bd5940 No.16396153
>>16394636
Spears fuck cavalry right up the ass, especially if they're pikes Base game Warband is unbalanced as all fuck though, and Swadian Cavalry steamroll everything. You're best off going with Floris or Prophesy of Pendor.
Expect to get anally raped in the first 5 seconds of exiting your town in both
61da3e No.16396175
>>16396153
>prophecy of pendor
>using anything other than horse archers and lances
Good luck.
7bfd4f No.16396240
>>16396153
>Pendor
>more balanced than vanilla
I don't think saying "the most expensive cavalry unit in the game wrecks face" lends much credit to your cause.
0c56fe No.16396342
>>16396140
Bardiche best polearm.
b11f42 No.16396737
>>16392440
>swords are more heroic looking while spears are for the rank & file
>we still occasionally get a spear, staff, or other interesting weapon on a hero though
Pic related was able to make spears more heroic looking (or at the very least badass).
b11f42 No.16396745
>>16395669
I like that idea. To add to this idea (mostly outside of a Zelda game), the battles would play out differently each playthough depending on one or both player's actions, effecting each other's situations depending on what they do. The enemies would force the players to adapt whether on the field of battle or from the command post, and the outcome would depend on how cooperative the 2 players are with each other. The field player could also potentially command a squad of his own, either handling objectives and providing support as they see fit, or following the commands of the commander player to the letter. If either one dies, it's game over.
Sage for double post and off-topic
442d54 No.16397396
>>16395420
>throwing away your wizard powers
855fa5 No.16397420
>>16396737
>badass
Very subtle, Ferdiad.
9a81e9 No.16397448
>>16391346
Spears as a thrusting weapon are useful when used by groups. In principle, the games you're referencing are about directly controlling a single character. From the developer's perspective, it's easier to develop a game featuring a single controlled character than to have one person viscerally control many characters in unison or decent AI.
06d954 No.16397536
>>16391346
Most developers are extremely unimaginative, and wont do anything they haven't recently seen someone else do. There's nothing much else to it.They're a staple in trpgs, jrpgs and musous. Others are just scared to do anything that doesn't appear in a Jackson LOTR film.
33d0d6 No.16397569
>>16397536
The way I figure it, either Spears are too boring by the average dev's limited reason, believing them to just be boring sticks that you point the pokey end at your enemies… Or they are too complex to animate for the retards who make bland fantasy RPGs, like Skyrim for instance, which can barely animate a basic sword swing, let alone something more complicated like proper HEMA polearm fighting.
eb1ab3 No.16398018
9ae993 No.16398197
There aren't any convincing action game spear fighters because of the complexity. You have to deal with grip adjustment and bladed slashes, what good is a hit with the shaft going to do? Spears in mount and blade are shit for this reason but with mods it gets closer to fruition, bladed swings having proper hitboxes and also adjustable grips. Problem is then mobility and precision, the most important aspects to spear fighting, are trash in mount and blade (and difficult to implement in general). Spear fighters have to stay at a distance and shorten grip on the fly if they get too close.
5598ef No.16398233
>>16395266
>>16395413
Pistols are a modern thing, so you aren't going to see a super gun as much. If there is such a thing in a story/game, it is more about the craftsmanship of the gun than it is about the gun being a blessing of the gods. Modern guns are also not hand crafted, and instead manufactured, so the appeal becomes entirely about the user's skill with the gun rather than the gun itself being special.
296ff5 No.16398286
>>16398233
The only recent example of media having a blessed gun I can think of was the Supernatural TV show. There was a Colt SAA that the Winchester boys could use to permakill demons, though they were limited to a few shots with it iirc.
e0313e No.16398294
>>16391984
It's a Spammaxe.
505b7a No.16398297
>>16391346
>spears are so absurdly powerful the only way to make them seem ineffective is giving the wielders the shittiest luck attribute and most incompetent masters
ccb35f No.16398317
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16393542
Maces and swords weight about the same, and maces are not denser, the weight is jsut distributed differently.
6b1478 No.16398816
>>16395669
>>16396745
Dynasty Warriors: Total War
634466 No.16398998
>>16398317
What do you call this look?
96d316 No.16399076
Mostly niggers use spears today, but some whites have formidable Stihl pole saws.
c03f8b No.16400436
>>16399076
now I imagine some boomer fighting off zombies with a chainsaw spear.
df0b73 No.16400533
Spears are hunting or war/formation weapons. Games are more about individual combat.
9b3f29 No.16400549
>>16399076
surge had something like that I don't even know if it was any good because I never into staff weapons in that game but there was an upgraded boss version of it and those were always good
d2274d No.16400552
>>16400436
I don't think any of the Dead Rising games had one, missed opportunity.
ad2e6a No.16400572
>>16398998
Puncheably smug, but the guy is one of the ones who goes to some warehouse to chop stuff up to test things out so he has more credibility then most. If he didn't get snipped for his Tranny then he wouldn't be such a faggot.
d220a3 No.16400593
>>16400552
Fairly sure that's a combo weapon in 2.
d2274d No.16400637
>>16393542
>>16398317
They definitely should be slower. As he explains in that video, in spite of being roughly the same weight, the balance of the weapon means it has far more inertia. It's hard to stop, and it's equally hard to bring it back up for another blow. With proper technique you can still recover from a miss pretty quickly, but still not as quickly as with a sword.
Regardless, in any sort of medieval armored combat, the warhammer or some variant thereof (such as a lucerne/polehammer) would absolutely be my melee weapon of choice. Fuck swords, you might as well drop the weapon and wrestle.
5598ef No.16402160
>>16398286
I think there is a bit of a gap between a blessed gun, and a /k/ommando witch/lady of the lake handing a character a gun. If they went the limited ammo route, they should have used blessed ammo and not the gun being blessed.
757059 No.16402175
>>16400637
The pole hammer is a patrician's weapon. Equally devastating as it is requiring of proper technique. A single solid connection will fell any man, armored or not.
c25a17 No.16414773
>>16394333
Based trips
>Spoiler
Because Two-Handed Swords (pic related) exists, and the Yurops have the iron to make those swords a little bit longer without the requirement of folding them a gazillion times while still keeping their toughness.
a0563f No.16414908
So outside of musou games, which game/series has the best spears/spear mechanics? Either showing it's advantages over swords or just simply fun to use?
e58887 No.16414959
>>16394196
You don't need a counterweight at the end of a spear to use it as a crushing tool. The weight of the wooden shaft alone can fuck up dudes in armor.
>>16414908
Mundane Santier's Spear in early patches of Dark Souls 2.
68252e No.16415003
>>16400572
>If he didn't get snipped for his Tranny then he wouldn't be such a faggot.
What?
e58887 No.16415013
>>16400637
what if the armor is just gambeson though
5c581d No.16415072
>>16394196
Macedonian sarissas had a counterweight that was pointed. It was used to plant the sarissa into the ground if the phalanx stopped and to finish off enemies as the phalanx moved over them. It could also be used as a backup spear if the sarissa broke.
c4f3f1 No.16415074
>>16400572
Tranny? I thought he was going out with some weird looking beaner
88d4cf No.16415096
>>16415072
>counterweight that was pointed
Wouldn't that be very annoying and potentially threatening to the guys behind you?
5c581d No.16415164
>>16415096
Might be, but Macedonian-type phalangites were trained and drilled very well compared to other ancient soldiers and probably knew how to deal with it.
5e6146 No.16415213
It's because spears and polearms were seen as the peasant/militia weapon while swords were used by nobles and heroes, even though spears and polearms would kick the shit out of any sword that isn't a zweihander any day.
0824e6 No.16415250
>>16396737
>not the holy lancer who slays the dragon and rescues the princess
20017c No.16415268
>>16415250
I wonder why the dragon is always so small
I thought that the medieval people liked to exaggerate everything
8d6cc9 No.16415279
>>16415268
Mostly so the angle (George on the horse, thrusting down) works. It's also meant to emphasize how the dragon is a little bitch and George is a chad motherfucker.
b18cf0 No.16415291
>>16391346
because effective combat ends instantly
86d493 No.16415336
>>16415268
What this anon said >>16415279 but I also read somewhere that the reason dragons were drawn so small was because of an account of a group of European explorers who were travelling on a boat to somewhere in the continent of Asia and the crew got lost and landed on the island that is now known as Komodo and encountered a Komodo Dragon and were attacked by it, they killed it and then brought the story back to yurop and the concept of dragons was spread about the public.
Wish I remembered the book, all I remember was that it may have been about art or maybe on how legends are formed.
e9717e No.16415542
>>16395481
please sauce I can't find it
cc0b91 No.16416171
>>16415268
>I thought that the medieval people liked to exaggerate everything
That's renaissance style painting, not medieval. Besides, the artist of the first picture is contemporary and has a website.
ff00f2 No.16425070
>>16396342
>not crow's beak
You can crush through armor, punch through plate, and impale people.
040fad No.16425172
>>16415074
>>16415003
She's going out with a woman who is a transtrender or some shit.
it's gotten to the point where people insist that "whe's not female despite her femenine appearance"
the guy is in Canada and sounds like some wierd forgeigner, so of course he becomes the most reddit man alive.
282f9c No.16425355
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Besides the one mentioned here, there are other games that give lances in a non-shit way, like Nioh with multiple skins of japanese lances, and there is also Vermintide 2, in which the character Kerillian (the elf) can use a lance. See video related, and by the way, in the incoming expansion for that game (Winds of Magic), Kerillian will get a Lance AND a shield, and Saltzpyre will get a billhook, and looks like Kruber will get like a Heavy lance or similar too!
493955 No.16425634
Fuck spears. How come no one ever talks about Atlatls?
b5cc8d No.16425753
>>16425634
Slightly more effective than a sling but infinitely less effective than a bow or even a fucking slingshot.
fff1ec No.16425777
>>16425172
Wait, so his girlfriend dumped him for a trans?
Well thats pathetic.
f652db No.16426105
>>16425634
Because it's a shitty, tribe-tier weapon. The only good thing about it is that you could make one yourself for hunting once society collapses.
e4a964 No.16426139
>>16425777
auspicious numbers
485784 No.16426495
>>16394496
>Took me less than a minute to find a single example in a 300 page Book. I sure do love long monologues and dialogues about and between characters who only appear once and then immediately die.
Sounds like one of my Chinese cartoons.
20e451 No.16426582
>>16391346
In Vermintide 2 the elf gets a spear and it's god-tier it you know how to use it.
Also Kruber gets a halberd which is even better.
d97a34 No.16426962
>>16415268
It's actually about the size of a wild boar, maybe a bit bigger, and those things would fuck you up
e0bf78 No.16427509
>>16415542
>>16395481
If you like dicks.
Otokonoko Health Azuchijou e Youkoso
Next time use Yandex.
ebfab7 No.16428915
>>16425634
Because humans already know how to make projectile weapons better. Reminder that bows of the past are rudimentary at best since they used animal parts as the bowstring and a strong, flexible wood as the bow’s furniture. However, it requires craftmanship that is not crude in any sort of way. The Altatls on the other hand, is a stop-gap to our projectile tech before we can trully master tools beyond sharpened rocks and fire since the spear is the only thing that can be thrown reliably.
aa3613 No.16429363
Because the devs are incompetents. Cant figure out how to make spear animations that dont swing around like swords.
aa3613 No.16429370
>>16415268
Because they were small.
000000 No.16429409
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16391346
Because Spears are Toxic, as shown in the video.
ccb22e No.16433422
>>16392253
Anon I don't know if you're clearly retarded but to enlighten you it's called a Halberd. And yes it's a polearm made for slashing, piercing and blunt attacks.
a73b69 No.16433514
>>16415268
People back then were more realistic with proportions because they deal with real animals trying to kill them all the time. An emphasis on their menace was their poisonous nature and some were even aquatic serpents.
a64d48 No.16448792
>>16426105
>>16425634
>>16425753
>>16428915
Atlatl's aren't inherently or intrinsically worse then normal, standard bows (Atlatls pack way more power, for example, albiet at the cost of range), it's just that Eurasian warfare developed around bows instead.
In Mesoamerica Atlatl became the standard instead of bows. By the time the Aztec's became a thing, civilization in the region had already been nearly 3000 years old (see first pic) and the Atlatl was still generally preferred over the bow. In fact, the bow was outright seen as primitive and unrefined: Mesoamerica itself was pretty much all empires, kingdoms, city-states, and then more rural towns and villages, but northern mexico had nomadic tribes sort of like the Germanic tribes to the north of the Romans/Greeks, called the Chichimeca, who were widely seen as savage and barbaric, and they proffered the Bow to the atlatl, so it was seen as primitive, while the atlatl as a more refined' it's we have some surviving finely engraved, gilded atlatl's see second and third pic
In general, you need to remember that a great deal of how and why technology and society is and it's progression being how it was in Europe, the Near East, and Far east was due to the specifics of their geographic conditions, their culture, and the trade they did with each other. In the Americas, their isolation, lack of beasts of burden, and differing environments meant that they developed differently. A lot of the ways they were seemingly more primitive was really the result of this: Atlatl's are just one example.
As it relates to this thread, another is that no horses meant no calvary, which meant that spears and other polearms (they had analogs to halbreds, glaives, etc too) were less prevalent in Mesoamerican armies. It was still the most common weapon used, but a higher ratio of soldiers were using shorter melee weapons (the famous Macuahuitl, for instance, but also other sorts: flanged clubs, maces, etc). The lack of calvary also meant that armies were more concerned about sheer numbers (not that they weren't fighting in formations), which led to larger army sizes, and that also meant that warfare needed to be seasonal so the men could be back at home in their cities during the summer to tend to crops, and all of that combined, alongside, again, the lack of horses/mules and therefore needing porters instead; meant that traditional sieges weren't really a thing, since on top of warfare being seasonal, your porters had their own limited supply of food and resources vs being able to graze. Directly governed, imperal style empires were also a lot rarer due to the logistical hurdles of projecting long distance force, indirect methods of rule such as vassal systems, installing rulers from your own royal family, etc was more common.
This was also why they didn't use wheels for transportation: They used wheels in toys (see 4th pic) and to make pottery, but without animals to stick carts unto, and due to the region being hot, humid and being mostly either dense jungles or hilly highlands; there wasn't much point to bother with them; Both the climate, and, again, the lack of horses also likely impacted why they didn't use metal tools or weapons much despite having bronze metallurgy: Even most conquistadors gave up their steel armor in favor of types of native armor due to the climate, so it stands to reason that the development of it in the region would be stifled too: And without metal armor you need to pierce, there's not much point of switching to metal, since obsidian's relative flaw of the lesser durability isn't a problem while it's benefit of higher sharpness is retained. And to circle back to horeses again, due to the logistical contraints that caused on military campaigns, using stone and wood is easier to produce and repair on the field.
I could go on, but tl;dr it's a mistake to assume that things are inherently more or less advanced just based on the standards of how Eurasian society progressed. Obviously the Mesoamericans were still less advanced in most ways no matter how you slice it, but they weren't AS absurdly behind once you control for the differences in their geographic environments and the impacts their isolation had (and there were other ways it impacted them and made them progress slower or even faster I could get into, such as no cattle meant higher reliance on crops for food, which meant developed more complex bonotanical science/agriculture, 5th pic shows an aztec botanical encyclopedia): They were generally comparable to cultures from Classical Antiquity, variously a bit behind that and being more bronze age tier in a few ways, or even ahead of that in a few ways; which makes sense considering that they had civilization for around the same length of time Eurasia did when Classical antiquity came around.
5b49d0 No.16448877
>>16393074
There was an Imperial Fists successor chapter who joined up with the Iron Warriors in the Beast Arises series. Basically, they spent so long killing Orks together that eventually the chapter just followed the Warsmith commanding the Iron Warrior forces after the fighting stopped.
61387a No.16448961
>>16448792
Also mesoamericans were probably the first fursuiters in history.
e62366 No.16449168
>>16394496
>"fuck off Sarpedon you little bitch"
<"no u"
wow
08a872 No.16449318
>>16448961
incorrect; that would be the germanic tribes
actually even that would technically be incorrect, warrior cults and shamanic orders revolving around animal skins and their symbolism are very ancient and go back to the neanderthals (we have evidence with second pic related)
the meaning and symbolism of these animal cults is very varied depending on time period and area. the germanic berserkers were seen as the sacred priest-warriors of odin, but this sacredness came at a cost; there are many sagas where berserkrs lost their minds and self-control and would kill family members in a momentary rage, only to realize what they had done and either kill themselves or go into exile. contrary to popular belief it was rare for a berserk to harm a fellow soldier, but it was however common for them to keep fighting after they had lost every arm, to rip the jugulars out of their enemies throats, and to sharpen their teeth and nails to aid them in unarmed combat.
they were very interesting, fascinating even, but completely untamed, savage, animalistic and even a bit disturbing. they symbolized the wild and untamed side of humanity, and what happens when you let that side dominate your entire psyche. theres a reason they used them as shock troopers, why they usually didnt have friends or family beyond their military companions, and why their numbers slowly dwindled until they were essentially elite warriors by the end of the viking age. they were powerful, but not to be trusted.
a similar idea can be seen in scythian werewolf myths. according to plutarch and herodotus, there was one scythian tribe that made every prince undergo a certain rite of passage when they turned 19. the prince would sail to a remote island and strip his clothes and don a wolfskin for 9 months. during the 9 months he was required to go vegan and only eat fruits and vegetables, but if he tasted the blood and flesh of another animal while wearing the wolfskin, it would fuse to his flesh and he would lose his mind, becoming a werewolf.
obviously a ritual meant to teach their young princes the valuable lesson of controlling their instincts and making it a part of them, instead of completely dominating their minds.
even though it might seem like ancient furryism to you, i think what they did was better. modern furries are the epitome of what happens when you allow the baser elements of the psyche to control you.
b041fe No.16449320
>>16391346
Related to heroic figures favoring swords in most instances. As a symbol there is something about most of a melee weapon being a large blade vs most of it being a handle.
>>16448792
>but they weren't AS absurdly behind
They were. For starters you are underestimating how developed the old world was, but there is clear evidence that points out that those cultures were less developed than their former selves and regressing by the time Columbus arrived. They were sitting on a pile of resources that allowed for a unique technological evolution, but instead the dominant aztec society was built on the parasitic enslavement and sacrifice of others. Had they not been wiped out they would have dissolved into nothingness.
>>16448961
>smug_lionman.jpg
850e9c No.16449450
>>16391346
In most culture sword is symbol even today. It's mark of heroism, bravery and honor. Just look how big sword is in japan even today, in WW2 japanes army carried lot of sword even thought they were totaly useles. bayonet was way more effective close combat weapon. Maybe some point in history spear was seen as pesant weapon becouse it didn't need so much training compared to sword.
Also sword is weapon of individual becouse you can cower wider area but you get tired faster, spear is unti weapon. You can't slash like mad man whit spear just poke so you need other people on you side to make effective unit.
some way spear survived way past sword in warfare in form of bayonet, and even if you don't count it last great melee unit was Tercio, unit made up pretty much from pikemen.
there is lot of symbolism in sword. No king is pictured whit spear in hand or knight knighted by spear.
So we are stuck in this idea of sword being weapon of choise in warfare and combat. It's shame becouse spear is intresting weapon and lot of way should be used in modern entertaiment, in lot of movies and video game they just ignore or use it wrongly. Worst beeing in Two Towers when cavalry charges against Uruk-hai whit pikes yet they get tottaly overwhelmed, well atleast gandalf is leading charge.
a64d48 No.16449501
>>16449320
I disagree, & think don't know much about/are misunderstanding what you do know of Mesoamerican history/culture. but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you to clarify in what ways you think I am underestimating the old world, and what exactly you mean by "they were sitting on a pile of resources that allowed for a unique technological evolution"
Firstly, the idea they were regressing is totally false. and i'm gonna ask you to preemptively read the first image in >>16448792 so you have a basic understanding of the general timeline of Mesoamerican history and key events/political states. There was arguably a "regression" towards the end of the Classical period, with the collapse of many Southern and Central Maya City-states and a few other key states in other parts of Mesoamerica collapsing or diminishing in prominence, such as Teotihuacan, Monte Alban, etc; but this really only represents a temporary drop in population and urban complexity for those specific Maya states, with more northern states (Uxmal, Chichen itza, etc) thriiving, and the rest of Mesoamerica largely went unaffected: the states that fell elsewhere had their vaccum filled: As stated in the timeline, the Toltecs replaced Teotihuacan, and the Mixtec empire under 8-deer replaced the Zapotec captials such as Monte-Alban and Mitla in regional influence (and reven then plenty of Zapotec city-states stuck around). The only real, remnant loss or regression you see due to the classical collapse is that the more complex writing systems, such as the Maya and Zapotec script, became relatively less promiiant, and less complex ones, such as Mixtec and Nahuan, became moreso.
Moving into the postclassic you see many notable innovations: Metallurgy became widespread and Bronze working was discovered, political and administrative systems become more complex as well: EX: Classical Maya states were largely theocratic with mandate of heaven style shit, with little in the way of bureaucratic administration and only a few social classes, while in the postclassic you see more complex Maya polities, such as the united League of Mayapan; more formal oligarchies and monarchies with judicial systems and codified laws (classical cities may have had codified laws, but with less complexity), more craft specialization, economic complexity, and more social stratification/complex class systems, which ld to incredibly complex geopolitical and diplomatic systems and realpoltik (I can clarify if you want) and we see representative and democratic states, such as with the Republic of Tlaxcala (see https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/it-wasnt-just-greece-archaeologists-find-early-democratic-societies-americas; Teotihuacan may have also had a republic or democracy but we aren't sure). The Purepecha empire was also the region's first large scale, directly governed imperial empire (West Mexico in general became a lot more in lines with the rest of the region in complexity in the postclassic as well)' Warfare was also increased in complexity substantially, with spy networks, innovations in weapons technology (the Macuahuitl, for example), more formalized rank hierarchies and stuff like martial guilds/orders etc.
You see agricultural innovations, such as Chinampas, and the Aztec's stupid advanced botanical science, with them essentially inventing true bonotanical gardens, used for academic study, discovering herbal/medical properties, and them basically having a damn near taxonomic system for plant categorization. Similar is their advances in medicine and sanitation/hygine practices (state ran hosptials, empirically based medical treatment, daily washing/cleaning of streets and buildings, etc) in these 3 regards together they are arguably the most advanced in the world at those. The attached paper goes into this. Also, while Classical and even some preclassical cities already demonstrated pretty complex water management systems, sometimes with toilets, running water, and even pressurized fountains, but.King Nezahualcoyotl of Texcoco did some next level shit with multi channeled, piped aqueducts, dikes, and watering systems for his imperial gardens. See the webm for that. There were also intellectual advancements being made: You started to see formal, state ran education systems, such as Tenochtitlan having state mandated public education for all kids regardless of social class or gender, you saw circles of intellectuals such as philsophers, poets, musicians, artists, etc; (with Nezhaucoyot participating in such circles see third pic); with Aztec philosophers basically beating Baruch Spinoza to his theories with their own monist process metaphysics and their own moral and ethical philosophy, etc, and basically proto-inventing entropy/thermodyanmics in the same way the greeks did with the atomic model, etc. (Classic period may have also had complex intellectualism, but assuredly less so)
1/2
08a872 No.16449907
>>16449450
>Maybe some point in history spear was seen as pesant weapon becouse it didn't need so much training compared to sword.
its not just the training required, its also the cost. most militaries throughout time were not as well organized or standardized as militaries of today and in many, you were expected to bring your own armor and weapons. naturally if you were a peasant this would mean several thick layers of cloth and maybe some leather if you were a higher class peasant. this dichotomy can best be seen in the germanic and celtic tribes, where usually the armies were not composed of regular soldiers but farmers and peasants who were recruited to be soldiers on short notice. such "soldiers" would usually wear very little to no armor (seems weird but actually wearing no clothing is safer if all you have is regular clothing; less chance of infection from dirty clothes being pushed into your flesh from a spear) and often carried axes, clubs or spears, all weapons that were usually commonplace among farmers and hunters to begin with, and also weapons that are cheap and easily replaceable.
the professional warriors of germanic and celtic society however could afford much better equipment. you have to keep in mind swords are very expensive to make compared to an axe which requires much less metal, and on top of that, an axes doesnt really need to be particularly sharp to kill someone, most of the damage is done by the weight and blunt force of the blow. swords however must be made from the best of metal and be kept sharp and regularly maintained, something only a professional warrior could afford.
that being said i still like spears, and some are able to make spears look much more heroic than swords
76a78a No.16452321
Because they are literally impossible to code into a first-person game. It's extremely difficult. Only Godlike coders are able to do that. Like you'd have to be superhuman to do that.
At least that is what my employees tell me. I am sort of a dev you could say.
815ccf No.16453043
When paired with a good shield, a short weapon is superior to a spear most of the time. If everyone could afford swords, everyone would have used them. They're simply not the meme some of you try to make them out to be. Spears are romanticized too.
f18daa No.16453098
>>16452321
Chivalry did it well, I stabbed fools all day with that shit
f18daa No.16453104
>>16449450
Tercio units included swordsmen and later musketeers, as well as pikes.
Odin, king of the gods, wields a spear, Gungnir.
5b6e24 No.16453266
>tfw partizans don't get any recognition in vidya nowadays at all.
ad2663 No.16453306
>>16453043
Anon, there was a point were swords stopped being expensive and people where carrying them around as sidearms, yet the main weapon was still polearms.
ad717a No.16453344
Drunk combat animator and character designer here. I'll flat out tell you.
1) Historical and mythical precedent. The most popularized entities wielded swords, not spears. All the way back to the angel that guards the Garden of Eden.
2) Blade to handle ratio. It's easy to overlook the blade of a spear. Spears look like sticks that happen to have a sharp bit. Swords are all blade all the time. It's the same way guns can be fuddsticks or tacticool mall ninja. First visual impact is a big deal, as is the weapon's initial and sustained projection of sense of threat. You only prefer a spear if you know why you should. And most don't.
3) Swords are easier to relate to the motion of, making them more compelling. A sword in the hand pivots and sweeps the way an additional limb joint would. A spear isn't nearly so natural, even though it's technically simpler in most cases. This seems minor, but it keeps the viewer from getting as swept up in the fantasy, which is a barrier for power fantasy immersion. Protagonists wield swords. Spear wielders are for the ethnic sidekick. Check this statement against every JRPG ever. Legend of Dragoon comes to mind.
4) It's easier to make a sword look impressive without fucking up the skill/power ceiling of your setting. Swords can be swung faster and harder without innately changing their technique. (Shulk's edge alignment drives me up a wall in the Smash U trailer.) But doing it with a spear makes the combat way more Wuxia way faster. Eventually you're not designing a fight around a spear, you're designing one around a bo staff in the hands of a black belt master that happens to have a pointy bit on it.
Those are the main reasons. They're cool, they're simple to animate, they stick in the mind, they've got mythological gravitas, and it's the best trade-off for immersion between relatability and extravagance.
5dded3 No.16453407
>>16453344
That's the main GRAPHICAL reasons and it's nice to get professional insight with it, but there's more to it in terms of game design.
Spear's advantage is range and simplicity. Anyone can wield one reasonably and get a hit before any sword-wielder even gets near you. But what does that mean in terms of gameplay? Almost nothing.
Since most of the time combat is not realistic at all and everyone is gonna take several hits to die, you can easily tank one hit before you move closer, negating the spear's advantage. And considering how the focus of most games tends to be on movement to gain an advantage over your opponent, closing the gap is incredibly frequent which also doesn't help the spear.
This means that it's only notable difference is "always strikes first" which ends up being like a Rogue who gets a backstab for some starting damage, but not even nearly as good, and after that it loses any advantage it had.
Unless, of course, you can keep your opponent away from the spearmen with a wall of units, where the spearmen can attack from the backline to cause damage with the frontline defends them. This is counter to actual warfare but it's what makes sense in videogames and makes spears not only dependent on teamwork\army composition to work (restricting the types of games and tactics where it can appear) but also making it a side-weapon.
The only thing that changes this is if the attacks you can use it for include some close range moves as well, but like that anon said, that'd be a bo staff with a pointy stick, not a spear being used like a spear. Musou games with spear wielders often end up like this, with some thrusting movements to differentiate between spears and actual bo staffs.
Essentially, it's the same debacle that Shotguns, Assault Rifles and Sniper Rifles face in vydia. Because they have to be placed in a non-overlapping niche so you pick the right weapon for the right situation, it's most defining characteristics are greatly exagerated to better pidegonhole them there. In the case of spears, it's their range vs actual close range combat, making things like the traditional RTS triangle "swords -> spears -> calvary -> archers -> swords & spears"
76a78a No.16453426
>no one recongized the todd howard joke
I should have just posted a picture of him with the post.
5dded3 No.16453482
>>16453420
>a magical spear called Gay Bulge
OwO
850e9c No.16453544
>>16453104
Infomus Spanish infantry at it best was 10 companies of 300 led by Captains, in which 8 were Pikemen's Companies and 2 of arquebusiers. That held until firearms and artillery made it obsolet. At beging Tercio was baset on theory thirds, 1/3 pikemen, 1/3 swordsmen, and 1/3 of firearms. But in time they moved off from swordmen.
>>16453306
I also have perfect piece for this:
Rodeleros (equipped with sword and shield) were to be found in the early Tercios and used to disrupt enemy pike formations however it was soon clear that using more firearms was a safer way of doing this though swords continued to be used by soldiers of the tercios as the preferred side arm and backup weapon.
So Last great melee unit used sword as side arms, it's like Pikes were found to be superior weapon.
abfac2 No.16453568
>>16453544
Dont forget tercios also used rapiers, daggers and cut & thrust swords.
ad717a No.16454130
>>16453407
Also good points, yeah. There's a whole mess of reasons, really.
Also, I'm not a professional. Just a long-term hobbyist that got good enough that friends ask me to design their tabletop characters. There's a decently sized combat animation community online too. Throw "imitator collab" into the search on YouTube. After that, on the same channel, look into one titled Dominate.
Then go watch old Monty Oum animations like Haloid and Dead Fantasy. Dude is a saint; I don't care how bad the writing/acting in RWBY is.
His proteges, Shane Newville and Dillon Gu, are pretty good too. Shane put out a Mega Man X animation that was pretty solid, and Dillon regularly both posts new animations and streams his creation process.
9d94a6 No.16455796
>>16391346
Because they're generally overpowered.
Seriously, they're the easiest weapon to use in a strictly low skill floor sense.
It's why peasants and other non professional soldiers used spears and halberds.
They're also naturally effective against mounted soldiers.
And finally, for how op they are, they're just not a sexy weapon in a videogame sense. Who wants to poke and cheese their way to victory? And who wants to play against that?
Sometimes, reality needs to take a backseat to fun.
4e9abe No.16455837
>>16455796
>It's why peasants and other non professional soldiers used spears and halberds.
Are you telling me Lu Bu was some sorta casual? Was that also why he changed his weapon to the cross halberd in Dynasty Warriors 6?
7dc7cf No.16455850
>>16455837
Absolute casual scrub.
35b151 No.16455942
>>16391463
>>16395413
>>16449450
>do not excessively covet swords and daggers made by famous masters
>even if you can own a sword or dagger worth 10000 pieces, it can be overcome by any 100 spears each worth 100 pieces
>therefore, use the 10000 pieces to procure 100 spears, and arm 100 men with them
>you can in this manner defend yourself in times of war
t. Asakura Toshikage in his 'Seventeen Articles'
>>16449907
>they (the germanics) undertake no business, public or private, without being armed, though it is the custom that no man is allowed weapons until the community has approved his competence
>his father, or relation, or one of the the chiefs presents the young man with a shield and spear
>this is the equivalent the granting of the toga for us, the first youthful honor
>prior to that that he is seen only as a part of the household, afterwards a subject of the state
t. Publius Cornelius Tacitus in Germania
95f87a No.16456708
>>16426105
>>16425753
Ya'll motherfuckers underestimate the atlatl. While it may be outstripped in terms of power and ease of use compared to, say, a crossbow, it's still a very powerful, simple, and easy to learn weapon.
97c95f No.16456739
How effective would this be for Youths?
4fa98b No.16456839
>>16400593
>>16400552
Yeah they did have that, the Paddlesaw. literally two chainsaws duct taped to a kayak paddle.>>16400593
faf02e No.16457371
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16391346
Spears requiring team strategy while sword autists are alone.
079645 No.16458897
>>16392253
<i know what the fuck i'm talking about because i lump shit together on account of shit looking the same to me
imagine being this much of a smoothbrain
95f87a No.16459303
>>16456739
Catchpole is on the way! Get out of here!
697f11 No.16459391
>>16394436
Aside from the occasional ambush, most battles were arranged beforehand- so I don't see why them sometimes making sarcastic remarks at each other while fighting or giving a speech before the battle would be so far fetched.
589db7 No.16459423
>>16455942
That's fucking cool, thanks anon