3d1c50 No.16141793
Anyone else here ever see a fun looking multiplayer game in some fashion and think it'd be fun to play? But then you stop yourself because you remember the numerous multiplayer games that were dead within a year that have been coming out lately?
Even worse is that I feel like I've become jaded to multiplayer in general. I bought The Mean Greens when it came out and it died within a few weeks. But recently they pushed a big update and have been encouraging people to play and now there's a steady 500ish people playing ever night. But I'm so through with fun multiplayer concepts dying that I can't get myself to play it again because I don't want to have the rug pulled out from under me again. Singleplayer games are so nice because all I have to do if I want to play them again is install them.
But where does this problem originate from? I feel like a big problem is that there's so many games today. So if a fun yet flawed game like The Mean Greens is released, people will just drop it because there is without exaggeration, thousands upon thousands of other, more refined multiplayer games they could be playing. It feels like anything new in multiplayer just gets snuffed out because normalfags only want to play the same homogenized bullshit (IE: All the normalniggers eating up every single battle royale that's released). I miss games like Jedi Academy or TF2 wherein over a decade later you can still find people playing them. Multiplayer games just don't last like they used to.
a0ca8b No.16141817
Most companies now won't let the players host their own server.
7b520c No.16141830
multiplayer games that have no good content you can do in singleplayer die for good
11ea96 No.16141939
Matchmaking. It forces the game's lifespan to rely on company support and shilling rather than any kind of community.
03cef3 No.16141951
It's what happens when something gets mass appeal.
Hype up for product
Consume product
Discard product
Hype up for product
etc.
501e85 No.16141974
It's why devs provided stuff like SDK and private servers.
Nowadays there's no point, the pioneering has been done and devs and publishers rather pump out a game and get quick cash
3bf125 No.16141990
yes, everyone just sticks with the latest FOTM, ASSFAGGOTS or CSGO. if someone made a multiplayer + singleplayer/coop game the same way older multiplayer games did it then there wouldnt be any issues, theres a reason doom and source games live for so long is that they give you freedom to do whatever you want whenever you want
>player hosted servers
>mods
>players form their own clans, comminities and websites
>admins that are apart of the community
>not getting auto banned over text
>no wordfilters
>no DLC, maybe an expansion pack or two
>custom maps, gamemodes, vehicles and weapons
oh and steam is basically facebook for gamers, sucks that you always have some persistent ID that can be tracked over any game you play instead of just being able to put in your name in the options and fuck around. best way to get a long living multiplayer game thats fun is to make your own then give out the tools to the community
fd87b2 No.16142004
Years ago, I used to play Jedi Academy, and became a frequent visitor to this one clan server. The people in the clan were generally friendly, the server was well organized, and there were always general shenanigans going on as a result of how open the clan server was. I became a regular visitor there, so often that the leadership knew me well enough to skip me past their entire recruitment process altogether.
Honestly, there is no modern multiplayer game that allows you to do something like that anymore. You can't take an FPS, set the max kill and round time count to something obnoxiously high (100 kills, 90 minutes on the server I previously mentioned) and let the game become some sort of fuck-around session. Modern publishers and devs don't even want you to have a dedicated server because you might work out how to get around their monetization systems.
3d1c50 No.16142025
>>16141817
>>16141974
>>16142004
My question then is, why did studios drop dedicated server tools? The last game I remember that had those tools was AVP 2010. I see a lot of the "It's because of microtransactions" or "It's because of anti-cheat software" but surely there must be some devs out there that still care about longevity and the goodwill that comes from community server support? I just don't understand because it just seems like this feature disappeared suddenly one day and no one's asking where it went.
3bf125 No.16142034
>>16142025
> but surely there must be some devs out there that still care about longevity and the goodwill that comes from community server support?
there isnt, if there was you would see a few of those games out there already
d4ed34 No.16142087
>>16142025
full control, including planned obsolescence to force people to move to other games, double dipping with server rent, less code out there that can be tampered with (either for business reasons or simple hackers and modders - also means you can't host any mods even if you have them), makes sure no one else can fuck with the finely tuned skinner box progression to sell dlc and mictortransactions, no mods also means no competition for overpriced dlc.
>>16142025
>>16142034
>some devs out there that still care about longevity and the goodwill that comes from community server support?
majority of players doesn't care or know better, but they exist. guns of icarus has no public server files but gives you all the options you need to find games and puts fucking AAA games to shame.
stuff like angels fall first and the myriad of indie games usually are more open about hosting your own shit because it's cheaper and they have to fight for every player
f1ee2e No.16142120
>>16141793
>>16142087
>Anyone else here ever see a fun looking multiplayer game in some fashion and think it'd be fun to play?
LoL, WoT, Warframe are still heavily played today and they existed before your was legally eligible to buy booze
11ea96 No.16142133
>>>/v/16142120
You're really bad at this.
91b41f No.16142140
>>16142120
warframe is co-op. No one plays the pvp.
ac5b8c No.16142142
>>16141939
This times a million. Classic multiplayer games formed their own communities organically because either the community had full control of most of the servers the game had online (Quake, etc) or the game required a dedicated group of people to meet regularly and play it (FGC). Now every game that gets released is like a chore on your to do list if you want to play it. "Oh shit, I better play Dark Souls 7/Call of Duty 14/Overwatch 4 before they take the matchmaking servers off line and my purchase is completely fucking worthless." Then you play the game and regardless of whether or not you enjoy it, you get tired of it after a couple of months at most because the dev studio can't release content at a pace that approaches modding communities, and there are no modding communities because it compromises their model of service control.
9d0dde No.16142149
Make a good game, support it in the long-term, and it won't die. Multiplayer games today are high-maintenance, and players will lose interest, but a game also doesn't need 3 million players online at all hours of the day, modern multiplayer games that get support and regular content releases will remain active for a long time even with a small-ish playerbase (5-20k users).
84dda0 No.16142189
>Do Multiplayer Games die too quickly these days?
Oversaturated market.
a6d091 No.16144558
>>16141817
Have to host server in Don't Starve Together. Steam down yesterday which means you can't log into Klei to host your own server…. why even pay money for games you don't get to own.
1f34fd No.16147360
Theres tons of Multiplayer games that still hold up today that dont need their own dedicated servers.
Hell, I noticed everything started going down hill once FPS' stopped having splitscreen.
3bf125 No.16147427
>>16144558
>having to log into something extra just to make your own server
why?
13f8f0 No.16149010
>>16141817
Remember when Modern Warfare 2 got rid of them and everyone joined a group to protest it? That game made 500 million USD in it's opening weekend. Shattering entertainment records and guess what? Most of the people in the boycot group were playing it that weekend. That was the beginning of the end and adter that every game was matchmaking DLC hell.
7da39a No.16149041
>>16149010
""""""""protest"""""""
3a2258 No.16149965
Most companies don't allow client servers
Most companies chase eSports faggotry because of that SWEET SWEET money laundering
making a game more fun thatn a year or so hard ;_;
2688b3 No.16149982
we must burn the industry to the ground and start all over again
0e8172 No.16149993
af3afb No.16150013
>>16142149
But the thing is that before a good number of games survived a long time purely on strong design. And a lot of modern multiplayer games turn into these weird game design chameleons. What I mean by that is take Overwatch as an example. I was not particularly impressed with many aspects of it on release, and honestly had the game not changed as much as it has over time, it'd be dead already.
But I think it does something even worse than poor design, it's constantly re-designing things and becoming something unrecognizable as a result. There are characters in the game that play so drastically different from how they did on launch that they could be their own characters. The game is rapidly spiraling toward being a game that might not appeal to people who bought it for what it was on launch and I'd honestly rather a game die than meet that fate.
>>16149965
I don't really understand the e-sports argument either. You can have your ultra-competitive game and allow dedicated server support just fine. If you're playing a source game, you can get VAC for your server no problem and at that point, unless your server uses mods, your server is functionally identical to an official server. Is the real reason that the staff aren't competent enough to make dedicated server tools? Because considering some of the coding blunders we see in modern day (ex: There are still AAA companies tying critical game functions to framerate), I'd be more likely to believe that.
f089da No.16150201
>>16150013
>I don't really understand the e-sports argument either.
That's because you don't remember starcraft 2's launch.
2e3430 No.16150329
>>16150013
Here's the thing though, you ever play on a community server, and there's that one fucking admin, who clearly shouldn't be there, and is hyper aggressive about maintaining a specific play structure?
That's
THE ESPORTS COMMUNITY
And the spergs aren't likely to share their illegal shekels and tax write offs with you unless you satiate their powertripping faggotry.
ac08a0 No.16151414
>>16149041
The problem I've always had with this scenario is that anyone can join a boycott group, even with no intention to actually boycott the product. Could easily be fucked with by trolls.
3d1c50 No.16151421
>>16151414
Okay but I specifically remember that group. They got pissy that Activision announced MW2 won't have dedicated servers. Made that boycott group, then like a bad joke, were all playing it on release day.
312e3c No.16151468
a813b5 No.16151686
>>16141793
I played Mean Greens.
The servers were broken for weeks and the game itself was kinda lackluster.It got stale fast.
d9173f No.16169109
>>16141793
Modern multi-player games die quickly because matchmaking is a shitty method for keeping a community together, while free to play is a red herring that traps a lot of smaller developers.
2c34dd No.16185258
Go into multiplayer with a team ready (ie. with friends or relatives) seems to be the best way.
16f04a No.16185274
>>16141951
I was writing out something wordy but fuck it, that fairly well boils it down, excepting for the fluke here and there.
d9173f No.16185688
>>16142149
The thing these devs should consider is that by offloading the server costs on the community, they not only save money, but they also create an environment where people actually become invested in the game via socialization.
Modern games with matchmaking are basically shit because you play with a group of randoms, and then you get matched with another group of randoms next match. Half the damn games don't even offer basic support for adding people you've enjoyed playing with to your friends list or to even keeping a good group going for more than one match.
I'm community servers however, you can spend hours with the same people, or even weeks/months playing with the same people. I still have people on my steam friends list from my 1.6 days.
Niche games especially benefit from community servers.
Games like tribes ascend, dirty bomb, (and most recently, quake champions) have all been inherently niche games, which I genuinely believe would have easily stayed alive had they gone for community servers on launch day. Instead, they opted for shitty free to play monetization (which inevitably generated imbalance and other convoluted forms of "progression" and inherently annoying gameplay elements), "rented" servers, and a very closed attitude toward support and development.
I really can't imagine that they've made much more money with the free to play model, compared to just making a good game and charging a fair price.
3d1c50 No.16185691
>>16185258
Unfortunately all my friends are normalfags with no taste. They don't want to play anything unique like Depth or Vermintide 2, they just want to play Apex Legends because the jewtubers told them it was the best thing ever.
f0abc9 No.16186466
>>16150013
constantly changing meta is a cancer that got brought in by assfaggots. It's an appeasement to the whining of the lowest common denominator OR esports fags that don't give a shit about your game, just how well they can exploit it to win prize money.
Consistency is king.
3d1c50 No.16186491
>>16186466
It's why I avoid assfaggots entirely. This idea of "For this competitive season, the gameplay will favor X playstyle" is complete bullshit and I wish more people would recognize it for the trash is
4b64b6 No.16186496
>>16142025
They also dropped mod tools as well.
263ac3 No.16186530
>>16141793
But where does this problem originate from?
1. Casuals will only play major releases or the most popular titles, like Fortnite.
2. The marketplace is absolutely saturated with games that are all competing for consumer attention
3. The consumer is being bombarded by content, but people have a limited amount of mental bandwidth (and free time) that they can devote to their hobbies, so they will exclude the majority of titles in favor of something that is easily digestible, or something that they're very enthusiastic about.
4. Lots of multiplayer games are very simplistic and therefore highly repetitive; it is natural for people to move on after they've gotten their fill of the same shit over and over again, unless there is some other component that keeps them playing (such as new content updates or something more subjective like a constant group of friends/clanmates with whom they can play)
f1ee2e No.16186891
>>16185688
Releasing server code means pirates would steal you game. Pay money or GFTO.
05d783 No.16186903
>>16141793
At least in the case of Mean Greens the devs are working on bots.
fc8a98 No.16186987
>>16141793
>Community servers
>Custom content
>Customization
>Cwaulity gameplay
These are the 4 Cs why TF2 and games like it are still alive. Also holy shit, please let me use a dev console its the only reason I like source engine despite it being held together by band-aids and chewed gum.
602f97 No.16187059
>>16185688
They don't want to give people the ability to self moderate in case they create "toxic" servers. Look at the constant shit storms over people saying faggot in MOBAs. Now imagine the shit storm if there was a CP Nazi incel server in LATEST GAME And how much bad PR they would get.
The companies want to moderate communities now. They want to control how people interact with their product at all levels. If they give you tools to manage your own server a players "first experience" might be to join a server with forced nude mods and jizz sprays instead of weapons. And that's what they want to avoid.
>>16186987
TF2 is a walking corpse wearing a hat. It's one of the primary avenues of cancer in the industry and you faggots circle jerk it. It was a rip off when it came out and then it became cancer
3bf125 No.16187124
>>16186891
why not just release your own pirated versions on lots of websites with malware hidden inside?
1e6718 No.16187146
Yes. Because for one, no one does dedicated servers anymore. You have to rely on studio serves that you cannot build a regular community to play with. Instead replacing it with a shitty ladder filled with spastics. Second, everything has dlc and microtransactions. Back when there were expansions you could look forward to the game being expand upon greatly in the future. So there could be a reason to keep playing a game and getting gud at it. Now you suck all the fun you can get out of a game and then move on like a locust when the shallow DLC content (that you hopefully never bought) dries up and the swarm moves to greener pastures.
a4fb51 No.16187584
>>16142025
They can still use anti-cheat software on custom servers, the problem is with the microtransactions linked to the progression system. I think the companies fear that people might be having too much fun and unlock stuff faster.
2255b2 No.16187739
>For a long time wonder why no one made a team based shooter based around Army Men
>Think it'd be a really cool idea with maps being large scale contemporary living spaces brought to a new life since the characters are really small
>Think this idea would sell amazingly well
>Chalk it up to 'the times' that no one's taken the risk
>Turns out the risk has been taking and it was snuffed out immediately and I only heard of this game because of some random anon on the internet.
aafa0f No.16187775
>>16187739
When modding was at it's peak you would see a lot of "Rats" maps based on the concept. TFC and CS used to have servers dedicated to it
db93cc No.16192136
>>16149965
I really wonder why they can't do both.
In the old days you had both, public community servers and a pro scene.
355af1 No.16193007
>>16187739
It could work if they did a good 40k team shooter
f221fb No.16201251
There is exactly zero incentive, besides basic moral principles, to make a game with longevity in mind. In fact it's actually a detriment to your business since you end up competing with yourself once you try to make another installment.
081b41 No.16201278
Devs just don't know how to make games anymore. Especially multiplayer games.
They don't know the tricks of the trade or how to keep people interested.
They don't respect the trade.
All the old guard of game designers have retired or have dropped off the radar doing indie projects.
The best hope is the new indie developers, there is some promise there.
tl;dr mainstream is always pozzed and a poor imitation of the authentic.
39899d No.16201324
>>16142025
>My question then is, why did studios drop dedicated server tools?
1. Server tools take control away from the developers and publishers.
2. Developers are too incompentent to implement them.
3. Microtransactions and anti-cheat, as you said.
4. Because "That would split the playerbase" by giving players option besides matchmaking.
5. Companies have realized that new games have to compete with older games, so by making it impossible to play an old game when it dies, the newer games have less competition.
0c8252 No.16206500
>>16142004
i got yelled at for shooting people when i played that game. they wanted me to use my lightsaber. then i got yelled at for using powers in a saber duel. then i got yelled at for killing them with a lightsaber because i was apparently doing it wrong. like it was all perfectly choreographed ice skating and i was tapdancing disruptively.
d9173f No.16206716
>>16187059
And yet their desire to control and moderate is exactly why these games don't stand out at all.
d9173f No.16206739
>>16142025
>>16142034
>>16142087
>>16186496
>>16187584
>>16201324
You know, Conan Exiles seems to include most/all of this stuff, while also being pretty safe from piracy and remaining profitable enough that the developers keep updating the game and keep adding cosmetic only dlc.
Some of us on 8chan even got a server recently >>16148981
f1ee2e No.16211640
0a2bd2 No.16211656
>>16201324
Couldn't have said it better myself.
2596ec No.16216015
>>16141793
>these days
OP this shit has been happening since I got into online gaming which was in 2006. Every year it kept getting worse until I just stopped in like 2013 or so.
af3afb No.16216238
>>16186891
>Steal your game
But that's
>Implying that piracy is a lost sale, even after numerous studies have shown that pirates don't care about buying anything
3bf125 No.16216258
>>16206500
As long as you didnt run away then shoot them once you started losing a lightsaber fight, right?
8e5936 No.16216514
>>16206739
Fortunately.
Let's see how long it takes even the biggest idealist to get sucked into the kikeverse of neverending shekel rain by simply designing a game with planned obsolescence as all the big AAA studios do these days. Matchmaking in multiplayer on PC wasn't even a perceivable thing back then until (((console devs))) had to popularize this garbage trend in order to milk the normalfagtard with yearly COD rehashes and similarly undercooked shit.
5a9037 No.16216985
>>16216514
Come to think of it, have they added a cash shop to CS1.6 yet? They'd be back to catering to their true fans.
61e30a No.16217029
>>16142025
>why did they do this, sure, there's all these reasons i'll list, but I don't believe in them
>so why did they do this?
Gee, I dunno. Are you an antivaxxer too?
fd87b2 No.16217117
>>16206500
Chances are that server sucked anyway. The server I mentioned had weapons disabled, but force powers enabled.
You really wanna piss someone off when a server's running JA+ or some variant of it? Use Grip on someone, then run up to them and double tap jump to kick off of them.
767b5a No.16222696
remember tf2 classic? it was fun then some faggots split the playerbase for no reason.
43aab5 No.16222748
>>16222696
tf2 classic is dumb and pointless, same with vintage, like, 90% of what they wanted, could be done with sourcemod and then they wouldn't have had to rely on people being willing to install their sourcemod to play.
People should be politely pressuring the TFTeam to stop being retarded and pushing this matchmaking shit. People shouldn't be feeding free fuel to the "Old style of TF2 is Dead we need matchmaking and competitive and nerf everything but the soldier and demo forever and ever because muh rawkeet jawmps" shit.
43aab5 No.16222752
>>16222748
Also, fuck the fact the name for the Server modification platform (Sourcemod) and finished Source engine project (Also Sourcemod) have the same fucking name
91b41f No.16222756
>>16222748
>>16222696
Why the ever loving fuck was there just not a server made in regular ass TF2 that enforced the vanilla shit? it would be 100 times easier.
43aab5 No.16222759
>>16147427
Because Klei is retarded and they thought people were going to steal their Hats THAT ARE TOTALLY GOING TO BE A THING GUISE thankfully though, Klei gets what they deserve, a shithouse reputation, and a Community Workshop full of Chinese spyware.
43aab5 No.16222775
>>16222756
Lots of people having Pic related in their TF2 backpack
Hire Date: Weekday, Month Day 2011-14
Also I think at one point an admin (soldier main) cried about the pyro being able to airblast and couldn't figure out how to use tf2items to attach the Cannot Airblast attribute to the stock flamethrower
99a219 No.16222777
>>16144558
Why even play that game since they fucked it up so much?
013c03 No.16222796
>>16141793
mean greens just got a server browser though and player hosted matches and basic match options, and it immediately got new life injected.