/v/ - Video Games

I still don't understand combat. I thought you didn't take damage until the green or blue bars filled up, but whether I focus on mitigating them, inflicting them, or just trying to do damage, I always lose.

I'll probably be a hermit of some kind, but will help you guys out where I can

>>16059795

the bars can also be yellow or red and it highly depends on what creature you are fighting

>>16059795

increase UA to 100+ they just smash them with UA attacks till bar is over 50, after that just mash the attack that uses the same color

What are the changes to the FEP system? I was thinking of increasing Int and Per a lot early, since they'll affect my LP gain more than others

>>16059840

>>16059893

Well yeah i get that, but the UI is so cluttered I have no idea what stats belong to who. For example damage inflicted.

>>16059915

Combat is complex and the best way to learn it is through sparring and having someone using the ingame chat or something. "Understanding" combat is something that takes 15' to 60' and can't be done a minute before you actually have to fight something.

>>16059915

for creatures combat is entirely read the wiki and find out what color attacks it uses and load up your deck with what you need for that specific creature, almost every animal has a sort of "finisher" that does multiple colors of damage if combat goes on too long.

>>16059915

Bats are soloable with 20 Unarmed combat, 20 Strength and 20 Agility. Keep mostly spamming punch wile not letting any of the openings go above 40.

>>16059795

Those green and blue (as well as red or yellow) bars fill up and have a percentage. That percentage directly determines what percent of an attack's damage you take, however how much damage that actually is depends on what you're fighting (ie a player's 10 damage punch won't do anything to you until your green opening hits 10%)

>>16060222

Okay now that makes more sense. Why didn't someone say that before? So is it better to use an attack that does no damage,but quickly raises their openings?

>>16060076

How does it differ from a swamp then?

Is it possible to go heavy into archery whilst ignoring the other combat related skills?

>>16061126

Archery is absolute shit for hunting as of right now. You can use it to kill animals very easily at little risk, however it absolutely tanks the quality of the meat and hides you get from the animal to the point that its barely even worth it.

PvP-wise marksmanship used to be op as fuck and beat everything, then it got nerfed. Not sure just how much worse it is but I dont see people talking about marksmanship in pvp much anymore so its probably not so great anymore.

>>16061126

Also you dont need a combat skill. Combat is completely unnecessary if you're playing with other people as you can just let someone else do that while you focus on making the perfect cheese or some shit.

>>16061168

>Archery is absolute shit for hunting as of right now. You can use it to kill animals very easily at little risk, however it absolutely tanks the quality of the meat and hides you get from the animal to the point that its barely even worth it.

Shouldn't it do the opposite and become less damaged the better you get at it? It's not like you're upgrading to become a cannon

>archery is terrible an has absolutely no redeeming qualities

I like making terrible choices and trying to find a way to make them work. If archery is truly terrible I'd say it's right up my alley.

>>16061192

the programmers are retarded and think being able to use things in the game to accomplish things is an exploit

>>16061323

>he doesnt know about the barrel exploit in world 8

>>16061192

You CAN get better quality harvests from animals you kill with a bow but it requires you to have very high quality arrows and a high quality bow itself. Even then im pretty sure theres no way to get rid of the quality penalty though.

>>16061573

Whats your strength, agility and uac at? Also basic leather armor helps a lot more than it might seem to at first.

EVERYONE

http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=62967

20:00 UTC

>>16061783

>Claim shields have been removed entirely, quite simply.

>There is now decay in caves, albeit only about 1/10th of what it is in the overworld.

>Peppered foods now have a chance to give you a Bum Burn wound.

>Most foods only satiate one food category.

>Food items generally only satiate food categories to which that food item itself belongs.

>Satiations heal naturally in about one ingame day, this instead of the old effect of healing the lowest satiation whenever you had four satiations below 50%.

>Wild Chickens now have quality.

>The base growth speed of crops has been lowered.

>>16061850

>tunnels under the ocean

>recreates antz ending

Is there a working custom client that people are using currently?

>>16062013

Amber seems to be the big one

>>16062015

>if you dont have rage you can't take additional wound damage after being KO'ed

>soon as your purchase rage you can

Ok so you can be a carebear if you wish, but someone with rage can still KO you and steal your pants/bag etc.

>>16062223

Death is now consensual, but griefing is still possible, so I think it's a happy medium

So whos gonna be the autist whos gonna speedrun wilderness beacons and bring in the boys?

>>16062324

Did you read OP?

>I will find the best spot I can to get us deploying when the day hits unless someone posts with an exceptional spot themselves (prarie or nice flat ground near source of water but not too near) at which point I will make several beacons, light them and then fresh spawns will take a minute to help me produce more beacons, we will then grow like a cancer upon the land. I will run an alt to become our primary lawspeaker and village chieftan.

>>16061850

I doubt he'll be able to implement something like water flooding, but it sounds like there's going to be something.

>>16062223

>Ok so you can be a carebear if you wish, but someone with rage can still KO you and steal your pants/bag etc.

They also used to be able to kill you too, for about 9 and a half worlds.

>>16062367

Yea but I have no idea who posted it

>>16062456

have you considered I may have posted and said such things because I was chief, anon?

Apply yourself.

>>16062472

I think he means for stuff as far as hearth secrets or usernames or the like. But we'll figure that out once we gen new stuff

>>16062229

you can also be killed if they are able to do enough damage to kill you from full shp/hhp, granted it will be a month before dedicated combat chars will have the weapons and stats to just one shot randos

>>16061839

>>16061783

Charter stone travel is based on Agility Charisma Will.

>>16061783

>Wild animals are now hardcapped in quality by the survival values of everyone who has dealt damage to them.

Kind of annoying, but getting to the survival level where you aren't fucking the quality won't be all that hard.

http://ringofbrodgar.com/wiki/Credos

Also make sure you understand the credo system before the launch, very useful shit that you'll wanted to get started on as soon as possible.

>>16063071

You will need to invest on exploration/survival/yeomanry first but Credos should be worthy investment within the first week.

>>16060514

early in a fight it's better to raise openings. You'll want to raise openings and then do damage when they get high enough. Keep in mind that reductions by the defender also reduce openings by a percent, and are therefore more effective at higher openings (ie if your green openings are at 10% and you use a reduction that reduces green by 20%, your opening will go down to 8% (because 20% of 10% is 2%), however using the same reduction when your opening is at 75% will reduce the opening all the way to 60%). You should only use reductions when you start taking damage at the very earliest or you'll be getting cooldowns for no reason. Enemies' reductions will also lower their openings more when they get higher.

>>16062456

that's literally the point of a chan board

>>16063234

forgot Truffles in livestock industry

>>16063746

So it's possible with a decent amount of armor to avoid taking any damage at all (unless it goes long and they use up IPs)?

How does block value work? If I'm holding an axe does it know to use melee combat instead of UC, or does it depend on the attack?

>>16063758

There are moves called "maneuvers" such as Chin Up, To Arms, Shield Up, etc that determine what stat (and in the case of shield up, parry, etc, certain equipment) weigh on your ability to 'block' (that is, make your openings go up more slowly)

>>16063762

So if I have 250% block from shield up, and they use an attack that causes 40 opening, it would only give me 16 instead? How long does it last?

Oh and there are armor piercing attacks that ignore armor completely (but are usually less severe), and armor eventually decays unless you maintain openings below like 5-10% permanently which is basically impossible in most combat encounters.

High-q steel/gold/troll armor can have thousands or hundreds of thousands of hitpoints so decay isn't THAT big of a concern but you will probably have to make a new set of armour every once in a while no matter what if you intend to use it, and most armors give an agility penalty so it might be worth considering not wearing armor against more agile foes (or wearing less/some of the lighter armors that buff or have no effect on AGI)

>>16063768

that 250% is block weight. I forget the specific way block weight works but point is shield up is the most powerful maneuver in terms of sheer block weight (unless your unarmed combat is much higher than melee).

In other words I'm not entirely sure how block weight works but i believe a 40% open from a move being reduced to 16% sounds close to correct

>>16063768

>how long does it last

maneuvers last forever once they're in your combat deck unless you have multiple on your active combat deck and hit their hotkey to change them.

you only really should bother with one maneuver on your deck (chin up and then shield up once you get a shield, probably) unless you eventually get into high level pvp

>>16063795

>>16063786

So maneuvers can be thought of as a stance?

Thanks for your replies, I'm feeling more confident in fighting now

>>16063810

yes maneuvers are a stance pretty much

you're probably going to only be using combat for hunting (at least until you really get its intricacies) so unless the developer nerfs it I'd recommend hunting from inside a rowboat. Rowboats move a bit faster than you (and several animals) can run, and since boars and foxes for instance can't swim, you can do a single attack and then retreat to deep water to reduce to ~0%, therefore never taking any damage. Then when they flee combat you can chase them down faster than they can run or trap them in a large shallow water peninsula and punch them until they die or reaggro

If everything goes smooth, w11 should start in exactly 24 hours.

GET THEM BOATS READY BOYS

>>16063822

Dont you also need combat to tame animals? You'd need what, leather armor and shield for the best results?

>>16064446

leather armor is ok yeah but if you can manage to get Hard Leather armor it actually gives an agility bonus

definitely get pretty strong before you start taming though, particularly horses. Having friends helps

Hours away from liftoff boys

FIVE HOURS TO WORLD ELEVEN, PREPARE YOURSELVES, CHECK OUT THE WIKI, GET READY.

Also we should be preparing to go industry before pumping all our shit into UA like I thought, FEP gains are far more important. Having 80UA and 10 agility is going to get you roasted by a boar

>>16067294

I've read recommendation of 5 survival, 5 exploration, 10 survival, 10 exploration. If you want to powergame, you can create several accounts/characters and get Yeomanry on alt from discovery LP alone.

>have to work a six hour shift in 4 hours

>>16067323

alt will be the village chief personally, and my primary will either be a real fighter or a comfy cheesemaker, depends really, I took up the mantle for chef back in outer haven, someone else ought to take the reigns

>>16067406

Every point in masonry you have is a point you can mirror with good quality pawbones. you can up to double your stats with statted equipment.

>>16067423

Exactly what I meant. Spending time foraging all day to get 5 mole pawbones is equivalent to skipping points 15-30 hard spent in masonry.

Remember folks

no communism

Since we are planning chars ahead, I'll be probably dedicated berrypicker, fisher and rabbit catcher since I have no idea where to move in next specialization.

>>16067525

village medicine man? with some poor mans gloves and pumping points into EXP, survival and PER, you could find plenty of clovers for taming, plenty of nettles for salves, and yarrow for antcid burns and knicks and nacks, and at high quality. And if your per*EXP is 1000 or so that means you can see GLIMMERMOSS which is a great fucking curio and hasnt been nerfed, and extra quality from survival on said moss just means more LP for all involved

Newbro here, I like the game and I would like to get into this (I have like 600 hours on Wurm, so I have the required autism).

I look at the chart >>16063234 and I like the idea of a drug cartel. So I have a couple of questions:

>Are we planning a village together, us vs russia and chinks, or is everyone gonna build his own house somewhere? Is it even feasable to build a house on your own?

>If I want to be a drugman, I guess I need to work on my farming, right? Does that mean that I should also be a farmerman, or should that be a different specialty?

>Can herbs for drugs be farmed or is it mostly walking through the land, collecting shit?

Thanks lads.

This looks comfy. No idea what it is, but it looks comfy. Is it free? I thought there was an earlier thread about this and it said it was, guess I'll need to sit and read shit tons of wiki pages

What should I do? My top choices are bear puncher, winemaker, cheesemaker, or blacksmith.

>>16067608

Shit's free, you can pay something to choppy chop trees a little bit faster but nothing will speed up waiting on trees to regrow, clay, metals, and charcoal to fire, crops to grow, etc. I doubt anyone in this kind of thread will be paying knowing autistic NEETS.

would love to see what jobs people have decided on so i dont fuck up my stats with a redundant job

>>16067610

Chefs are essential, as the quality of food determines how many stat points you get. Your most autistic villagers must be farmers and chefs.

>>16067607

Village will have a good area of communal resources (library full of articles on important shit to discover such as bone and metal (as soon as we get any dried hides) feast hall after we get plenty more leather etc. but otherwise the village will be the same walled in area, further subdivided by your own claim/fence which you ought to set to trespass friendly.. As for the drug lord idea, you will have to harvest the poppies at a hidden stage just before maturity, but the end result will be opium wound healing, and the higher QL the dope you smoke the higher QL dragon you are chasing, dragons are a great curio.

>>16067610

Being a chef is easy, cooking+ I think PER, you simply will have to keep up with the demands of the village to have a variety of FEP food availible, later on this will be easy as our farmers and foragers and hunters spew shit at you faster than you can process half of it, extremely early on you will be head chef of the communist utopia of haiti, todays special Rat-on-a-stick for 1/50 villagers.

>>16067644

having atleast two people doing a thing, hard learned from wurm, is a good idea, and of course you can always have an alt who just learns from a study table to get statted while you are out and about on your main.

>>16067672

Doesn't rat on a stick have unusually good energy/hunger satiation ratio? I thought those were something you would save for the miners.

>>16067700

we will all need the good stuff initially as were going to be all doing some hard labor like leveling etc. Speaking of miners, you can carry a barrel over your head full of water while mining and can fill a waterskin/kuksa from it while on your back

also is there any reason to specialize in jewelry or is that something the metalboys will just do naturally

>>16067715

True. If cooking is extraordinarily important early on I can just focus on foraging and cooking and make a second character for claynigging once we're more set up (and I have nice gilds for it).

>>16067745

Heres images of how quality is calculated for two of the best jewelry items ingame, as you can see, smithing will heavily affect your softcap and obviously you want it for forging jewelery anyhow. other pieces of jewlery take into account things like your STR as well for the crown we would need to make a ream, but as far as stats go everyone should be trying to even out their gains, if you have 200 str you need 200 FEPs to raise any other stat even if its at 25, so do try and level your shit evenly.

Why did they ever switch to this ugly as fuck new art style?

>>16067812

Limitations of isometric 2D sprites, I'd guess.

So since today s Feb 1, is world 11 up? Or is everyone still waiting? It doesn't mention a time

>>16067938

February 1st, 2019, 18:00 UTC

Which is approx 2 hours and 50 minutes from now, assuming it goes well

>>16067945

It's UTC 20.00 which is 1 hour and 44 minutes from now.

>>16067957

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbt9T_S4dgU

>>16067958

>>16067945

>>16067938

Shit, math is hard. That's 3pm for me anyways

>>16067964

>direct linking to jewtube

Just us invidio.

>>16061351

Used to be that you could put tanning tubs in boats to speed up the process. Pretty sure they phased it out, as I couldn't seem to make that magic happen the last time I logged in.

>>16068016

I'm going solo perhaps, maybe with a handful of friends, but we'll be friendly towards /v/

>>16068016

do beacons asap, asap being as soon as we find a decent area near water and a cave mouth leading to a real cave for early metal possibilities

>>16068032

Id be funner if you just get beacons and spawn us all in and we all caravan together to our new home like the old days

>>16068016

You would want to beacon as fast as possible so everyone can scout / strip the world bare in a group. You also don't need to kill yourself and sacrifice your skills / discovery if you're moving in an idiot caravan instead of fiddling with cordage and sticks on your own.

What client should I use? Will the update break anything in custom clients?

18:57 UTC currently boys. SOON

>>16068121

Amber

http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40400

ids habbening :DDDD

>>16068037

>>16068115

I also agree with the caravan idea. Forget finding a spot first, lets just spam beacons as soon as possible and look for a good spot as a group. We should just try to get like 8 people or so at first though, since thats the party size limit I think.

>>16068016

probably beacons asap and then we all move together

ALSO ITS HABBENING AAAAAAA

World 10 is gone.

World 11 in t-minus 1 hour.

I've never played the game and don't have an understanding of how we meet up, how do beacons work and how does someone find their way to someone else? Can you warp to them with beacons? How far apart will people be?

>>16068229

any player can build a wilderness beacon with farily basic materials. If they choose to then "light" a beacon and give it a name, it stays lit for 30 minutes before disappearing. If, before the 30 minutes are over, another payer creates a new character and enters that beacon's name into the skull on a stick in the character creation area, that new character will spawn at the beacon and have its hearth fire replace it, which also destroys the beacon

>>16068239

>payer

I meant player

>>16068239

so you need a new beacon for every incoming player? all those beacons will need different names?

>>16068250

If there's multiple beacons with the same code you get one randomly.

>>16068250

Yes and preferably yes

Try to make the names fairly unique boys there will be a lot of beacons in the world today and we don't want to spawn with some other group

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YIJQ1jgEI

we should probably just post the beacon names here anytime we make one, just to be safe. I'm sure having "hatechan" in the name will be good enough if some other random word or number it added.

World 11 Begins in 15 minutes

>>16068334

lol jorb just said it's "might" be a little late

10 Minutes To Go is jorb is on schedule (spoiler: he isn't)

>>16064432

Be advised, Jorb and Loftar are very much in danger of violating Swedish law by allowing that kind of thing on a service they provide. They ban people who bring politics in but really, only right-wing politics and people who appear to be trying to make Communism look bad, to avoid that kind of mess.

Suffice to say that, if you leave that on a sign, someone will probably try to have your fortifications knocked down by tattling to Jorb so they can have your delicious loot.

>Server Error

>The request handler is overloaded.

Good job swede cucks

Site's back up but it says server is down, still no DL link.

its up

10 minutes past 20:00, I think it's time we all accepted that the Swedes are dead.

>>16068486

back down

>>16068496

up again

Is there a moment more hype than a new server launch?

Whether its a wow private server, or anything really. These moments are worth living for.

I have a new OS install, so I don't currently have java installed either. Guess I gotta have the JRE standalone in order for this to work.

Up, down, up, down, up, down. Schrodinger's server, apparently.

>>16068520

Playing at the start of the Silver Viper server on Age of Wushu with fellow anons was some of my favorite times in video games.

>>16068650

>Wushu

RIP NoTrabbu

ITS ALIVE

>>16068659

I'm in

the audio is all choppy for me, how do I fix it?

Chief here, Im in a huge prarie, with a body of water and a cave nearby, gonna make beacons as soon as possible

>>16068682

Press : to open the console and type this in it.

audiobuf 1024

how long does it take to get to beacons?

>>16068682

press esc then ":audiobuf 4000"

>>16068692

If I chose to spawn normally how hard would it be to get to the village afterwards?

>>16068696

just 1 quick swim and you'll be there

>>16068696

Not hard, but it could take awhile depending on where you are. You'd just need to party with someone so you can follow their arrow towards us

>>16068696

long

>>16068692

I need to find a bone for a saw to make the boards, it might take a few minutes

Okay so my character is done apart from jumping into the fire. I'll wait for a beacon somewhere. The skull tree says "name of charter stone" to warp to though, I guess that's the same thing as beacon?

rabbit bone aquired, making a beacon for the core veterans now so they can quickly help me assemble beacons

>>16068685

Waiting at the totem in character creation now

>>16068706

I miss legacy haven where all you had to do was walk up to a rabbit and pick the fucker up

>>16068715

I can chip rocks and bang on trees like a motherfucker.

>>16068719

How the hell did you get experience in the tutorial zone

>>16068728

Discoveries.

>>16068728

walked back and forth to trigger the willow event for 75 exp

The lag is starting to hit boys

>>16068740

God damn, havent ever seen numbers like that for Haven. This might be more bloody than I thought

>>16068721

wont let me walk into an area, stops me like a claim and says this every time

Lets kin up while we wait for beacons. My hearth secret is turquoise

Server seems to have bought it, but I was about to pull galop and SS in first. just needed to put the clay and some stone in it

>>16068685

I'll join once I get some sleep

>>16068765

yeah, character is stuck in one spot, i can't log out.

>>16068765

>galop

I crashed at character create. Did someone nig my name?

What are the odds that swedecucks reset the server now

>The page is down

>>16068796

I'd have been more surprised had the server not crashed

>>16068796

PANIC

back up

>Back to the char creation screen

>Curios wiped

I'm dying

>olivine

new stone:?

also here comes gallop, then SS, then the rest of you anons

Ok galop has joined and then some random strolled by, screamed HELLO, TY KURWO and ran off, magical. working on more beacons now

if anyone has beacon names post em

Oh good. I was expecting server issues, so in 4h i wont be too far behind

Wait, what happens if two people try to use the same beacon at the same time

>>16068843

you're giving it up anyway when I start setting up beacons for randos, anon

>>16068854

won't work for the second person

also I still need a beacon

>>16068857

giving what up? What?

Ayy complete scrub is in. How do I add you fags as kin?

Were setting up random beacons within 5 minutes, just give us some time, were getting like two core /v/eterans in to grind this shit out as fast as possible

So if this world is anything like the others, im assuming all the random spawns are centralized in a certain area, right? Or did they do away with that system

>>16068867

That was only a thing in world 8, no longer a thing since world 9

>>16068866

I will do everything in my power to help make beacons when i join

>>16068866

So should I chill in the starting area and wait for beacon passwords?

>>16068877

yes

>Spawn

>Game crashes

Server might have just rolled over again, just be patient, I told you all day one would be chaos incarnate.

rip server

I just thought of a plan boys

so read here

when the server returns, ill signal SSjewdestroyer to jump in on the beacon we made for him as soon as we finish it, then we will make TEN beacons and light ALL of them with serialautist so most of the anons waiting right now should be able to get in without spawning into the wilderness.

>>16068895

Ideally the second wavers will actually cut trees and stockpile clay to carry them back in for the beaconbuilders.

>>16068895

>ll signal SSjewdestroyer to jump in on the beacon

I jumped in. I should have spawned without you know, getting cucked in the character creation screen.

>server goes back up for 1 second

>EVERYONE rejoins

>server immediately dies again

thanks loftard

>>16068930

repeat until enough people give up or have other obligations

beacons WHEN

>>16068945

we will need some time to make 10 of them and light them all at once lad. under 20 minutes I hope

>>16068796

WHERE IS THE BEACON EGGMAN

>>16068981

Take your time, ive got a kilin going in character creation for that sweet discovery lp

Moishe here hit a nigga up

>>16069053

You can make a kiln in character creation? This is life changing

30% done on the row of ten beacons boys.

What is the hearth secret?

you keep any LP and exp you earn but not items, in the afterlife, so start making cone cows while you wait

>>16069071

ll release it when we have the row of beacons ready.

>>16069071

you can't enter someone's hearth secret for kin until you're out of char creation, so no point in having it yet.

>>16069076

Actually, I wonder what happens if you make a box first, throw a bunch of shit in it, pick it up and then get born

>>16069098

I'm an idiot and never noticed the birch tree, thank you.

stop please

>>16069076

How do you get experience in spawn?

>>16069146

Before the last crash I got xp by making a basket then picking it up, though now it doesn't work for me.

>>16069144

Sorry

60% done ladies and gentlemen

>>16069156

I appreciated it anon, short hair is best hair

>>16069173

Short hair, short body, big fat titties.

>>16069165

WHERES THE BEACONS CHIEF

>>16069239

"serialautist"

Warning for the future, dont try to sail a rowboat into the sea unless you want a swift death. Oceans do damage to rowboats fast

Man this godawful lag takes me back.

WE STILL GOT UNUSED BEACONS, SATACABLE AND ONE USING serialautist

WE RAN OUT OF BEACONS MINUS ONE THATS STILL SATACABLE (I think)

WILL MAKE MORE

It's asking me to name a charter stone, what name do i put in? satacable and serialautist arent working

Spawned in the middle of nowhere

>>16069285

same rip

Tried putting the secret into the antler at the character creation, then used the bonfire. Now I'm in the wilderness. I think I fucked up.

>>16069283

charter stone aint the one, its the skull on the pole.

MORE BEACONS SOON, LEARN SWIMMING AND DROWN YOURSELVES OR MAKE AN ALT AND GET READY FOR ROUND TWO

>>16069296

>charter stone aint the one, its the skull on the pole.

Yeah, isn't that what I'm right clicking on? It's a skull on a tree to the right of the graveyard. Someone said skull on a stick and that looked like it, is there a different one?

>>16069296

can you make a retard-proof guide for this

>>16069314

No what probably happened was swedish code and when two or more anons go into the fire at once for a beacon only 1 gets through even though there are multiple beacons with that HS

>>16069316

MAKE A CHARACTER IN THE AFTERLIFE

GO SEE THE WIZARD TO SELECT YOUR NAME

WALK BEHIND HIM (direction his back is facing) UNTIL YOU SEE A ANTLERED SKULL

TALK TO THE SKULL

TELL THE SKULL "SATACABLE"

ITS EYES WILL GLOW

ENTER THE FIRE WHEN I POST BEACONS ARE READY AFTERWARD.

we're making beacons as fast as we can

this shit aint free you know

>>16069347

That's the one m8 see >>16069328

>>16069349

Well it's definitely not where his "back is facing," and it's not asking for a beacon but a charter stone, and someone said "no you don't want charter stone." Now you're saying this is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. Contradicting information here, I asked earlier if charter stone and beacon are same thing, but I think someone said they weren't. I'll just sit and wait.

three beacons coming up shortly, will post when ready

So, how do I join you anons?

>>16069371

>>16069361

when I post the beacons are ready follow image related

>>16069385

should you build so many at once? wouldn't it be better to build like 2-4 at a time? or would that somehow be open to exploitation or danger or something

>>16069395

we built ten at once and it went quite well

>>16069413

no i mean you can get more people into the game faster who can then help you build more beacons and gather more materials. Building so many at once and lighting them all at the same time takes a lot of time, so I'm asking if it'd be better to have a smoother more gradual construction of them rather than these staggered tiers of building a bunch

>>16069447

we have like 25 anons no joke already, were working as we can.

>>16069438

wait, do I have to be a fresh character if I want to beacon in? I kinda already spawned in the world.

>>16069482

Yes.

>>16069483

so is the beacon up yet with satacable?

>>16069494

He said he would post when it's up.

>>16069494

SATACABLE, allcaps, but yes SIX BEACONS READY

Post your in game hearth secret so I can add you to my friendslist

Im not playing in /v/'s town

Lit, get in here nerds.

>>16069508

serialautist is my personal HS you hermitfag

Three more beacons left and lit

One beacon left for tonight, and then im leaving beacons up to someone else so I can rush yeomanry

Are carts in this used like in wurm? to store your shit so it doesnt get nigged?

>>16069558

you can't lock them, they can store 6 liftable items, such as crates. you cannot lift the cart, HOWEVER you can lift the rowboat which can hold two liftable items, that arent filled cabinets.

>>16069558

solely for transport of containers and items you can lift

>>16069558

The only newfag storage you can get is a leanto http://ringofbrodgar.com/wiki/Leanto which stores two crates with 15 slots each.

alright, since the server is down, recap is: we spawned in, we have a village of like 30 people or so, some obviously know what they're doing, looks like most don't, and those most are stumbling around in the woods like me trying to finish quests or get more experience and learning points.

Haven't seen a single animal yet, although there's constantly what looks like molehills moving around.

im gonna focus on pumping out boats so people who need to explore for birchbark etc can get farther out

>>16069574

I will shit out some blocks and planks to finance mine.

The real hell of inviting you all back into the party starts as soon as sweden returns.

Are gatherable items ie taproot, stuff from anthills etc hardcapped by survival now? Everything I've gotten so far has been 1q.

>>16069578

no more rowboats, can only make dugouts to start, which just require a plain log

>>16069580

Yes, it was the same in legacy, but everything in legacy had a minimum QL of 10.

>>16069582

Rowboats still exist, but I believe they require tar now.

I'm just getting crafting discovery and trying to figure out where all the fucking fish are. If they ever start biting, I'll cook shit and dump it in crates by the two tables people made so the newfriends can get more FEPS:hunger or whatever.

>>16069582

What skill does that need? Carpentry?

ITS UP!

>>16069594

Boat building (which requires carpentry and swimming)

>>16069593

Fish are much rarer unless you’re in a ‘fish node’ which is shown as fish jumping out of the water

so question about learning skills and abilities: does everyone generally rank up all the abilities to level 2 at some point? Is it really a pain in the ass for day to day life if you don't? I'm leaning towards being a cook, but I have no idea how necessary some of the other ability rank ups are. If everyone levels to 2 in all categories, then I don't need to worry much about where I'm putting my points

also, i can't see my status at all. The bars are gone and the run/walk stance isn't there, pressing different keys isn't seemingly bringing it back

>>16069642

What? No.

You just take cooking/survival to 10 and get the appropiate skills like farming, bee keeping, wine making, sausage making.

>>16069642

If you’re a cook,

-smithing and stealth will never probably be useful to you

-masonry and carpentry will only be useful if you make things out of wood or clay (ie if you’re making ovens and cheeseracks yourself)

-marksmanship, unarmed and melee combat will only be useful if you’re fighting (duh) and stealth only if you pvp or at least commit crimes

-farming and sewing will only be useful if you also plan to farm and sew (and you should probably at least farm)

-and of course level up cooking

Any beacons up at the moment?

>>16069716

Oh and you probably need some lore if you’ll be crafting curios

Is there a rough map of the world yet?

JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRBBB

>>16069671

mash space

we ded

Wew.

Glad i didnt play hooky today to play on an unstable world.

>>16069755

Its actually not that bad. Crashed a couple times at first then it was good until now

>>16069759

axx just fucking threw down a timber house after all the beacons for shits and giggles. were moving away from our area in a great caravan as soon as we find a premium spot.

>tfw cant decide on a job, everything seems interesting

Going to sleep now, hopefully by the time I show up tomorrow you guys wont have started a village on the other side of the map already.

I spawned near a road, fucking day 1 no lifers

Found a river, group of 3 people making a little base, lots of fruit trees. I'm a forest near a swamp. Gonna make a dugout somehow, and then explore this big abundant river

My hearth name is 3HRJ9LVi, if anyone wants to add me. I'm off in the middle of bumfuck nowhere though

How I meet you guys if I already made a character?

>Gold Pebbles

Huh, cool. Thanks clay

>>16070134

Make an alt or suicide

>>16070134

party up with that dude who keeps posting his hs and follow the arrow until you get there, this might be impractical to do if there is an ocean between you both

>>16070153

You lose invested LP or only unspent LP?

Huh, I'm close to two Ancient Windthrows. One is where that trio set up, though

If we need a discord, I offer mine up to be shit posted in. https://discord.gg/bhZQV7

>>16069998

Dougout requires these skills:foraging-> lumberjacking->carpentry->fishing->swimming->boatbuilding

>>16071019

if there are any left, they'd be called SATACABLE.

RIP Lilly

now Lily

Going to bed in-game and also out of game for the night. I'll claynig harder and get some str FEPS tomorrow.

>>16071064

>No such name is not in use

Be advised, hearthlings. Loftar is a fairly predictable programmer. The earliest files that were uncovered for this iteration of Haven And Hearth were literally discovered in a folder called "Hafen," which is basically the Swede version of "Haven." With that in mind, I'll lay out my experiences with quality and which areas are worth pursuing after having played this fucking game from World 2 on. This will be my final world, and I fully intend to be left the fuck alone.

The quality hotspots will not be near where you spawn. Loftar, in his infinite wisdom, wrote his world-generation code separately from his initial-spawn code, and wrote them to exclude the high-quality areas from the list of potential spawn points. You'll notice that you typically find your ass planted in the dirt with a couple of other hearthfires in the lategame, because they're usually where there's low-quality bushes/trees/dirt/water/etc. Good shit is never dropped in the laps of total newbies, because they don't appreciate it. This is the first lesson of Loftar: Nobody who is new to the game will ever understand the bounty that is given to them, so don't bother giving them a bounty. Quality 10-15, tops.

Number two, a lesson I learned from Jorb: Do not become attached. This is critical, and the first lesson you will immediately forget as soon as you come across something worth having. Anything you think you have can and will be taken from you. Concern yourself with reasonable security to keep the riff-raff out, but also realize that everything you cherish in your home will be another thing you'll never see again when an autism-powered automaton comes across your piece of land and thinks that it should belong to it. You could, with an equal amount of autism, make it not worth the hassle, but in doing so, you lose what makes you human. The easiest path, and therefore the best, is to simply be prepared to lose everything.

The third lesson, which I will now dispense upon you from no particular source aside from myself, is to find your own fun. I've been a rich man, breaking down private, solo-owned walls to interrogate hermits about their hemp farms. I've been a poor man, begging from villages and only able to offer boxes of spindly taproots in exchange for what charity they could offer. The only lesson I can give you is that this game is not going to be fun unless you try to find some fun in it.

Look, my negro. Look upon the world that's been delivered to you. They've given you tools to create fun. If you find this game to be more work than play, you're simply doing it wrong and you need to find a better way to spend your time while playing it. You may not be the sort that enjoys farming, but I guarantee you that such types exist, as I've seen them spend a great deal of time reaping and sowing in order to reap greater rewards in the heart. You may not enjoy the combat system, but I guarantee you that some do, as I've seen them go from anthills to deer herds, thrilling in the hunt because they loved it so much. You may not enjoy conversing with Russians and Koreans and Pollacks and Americans, but I guarantee you that some do, as I've seen a rare handful of potential statesmen negotiate between Odditown and goons and fa/tg/uys and hermits alike, delighted by the conversation above all.

If you can't find something you like about this game, you lack imagination and the time to sink into finding your niche. Given this game's weird tendency to support roles that exist in early society, I'd find it highly suspicious if you couldn't find a way to love it. Perhaps you're simply too busy to care. Or, more likely, you're the fat that would be trimmed in a catastrophic event that puts humanity back in the Survival stage. Safe to say, we won't miss you, in game or out.

See you on the other side, hearthlings.

>>16071176

>The quality hotspots will not be near where you spawn. Loftar, in his infinite wisdom, wrote his world-generation code separately from his initial-spawn code, and wrote them to exclude the high-quality areas from the list of potential spawn points

Not sure if sarcastic, but does that mean I should just journey the fuck away once I get established?

>>16071203

It is absolutely not meant to be sarcastic. Wherever you initially spawn will be garbage, though the code does not bother with the cave layers. It'll be, as I said, quality 10-15 in your initial spawn area. You should be aware of this, but you should also understand that you will not possess the means to determine whether your environment is worth settling in until your stats get better.

Your spawn zone is intended to get your ass in gear and work your stats up. You're going to want to look at Survival, if you're absolutely determined to find a good area to settle in as quickly as possible. The reason for this is that Survival caps the quality of the shit you harvest from the wild. That said, I will warn you that the knowledge of starting zones that I've given you is not exceptionally wide-spread. It's one of the things that have been nearly-exclusively hoarded by goons and their ilk which I technically was part of, as one of their coders from way-back-when. Given that they don't speak to me anymore, I don't feel a need to continue hoarding this knowledge.

So enjoy. Especially the starting zones, as they give you a good area to fuck shit up without affecting the quality of the area you intend to settle in, when you're capable of identifying it.

>>16071120

then you're gonna have to wait for someone to build another. I have almost no experience with the game so I can't do it, and I know that the ones who went as fast as they could to make a lot of them for incoming /v/anguard took a deal of time to build.

>>16071176

>Do not become attached

There are warnings to this effect all over the wiki. If you're a new player looking at the wiki for basic information, you're going to come across three different places at least that tell you "you're gonna die eventually and probably lose everything. Just expect it."

>>16071176

>>16071227

tl;dr

>>16071256

tl;dr version: Stick with your friends. They'll help fill the gaps in your abilities, and you'll do a super-good job with whatever menial tasks they assign to you, you fucking mongoloid.

>>16071238

>then you're gonna have to wait for someone to build another

it's okay. I got XP and cow cones to play with

>>16071176

I guess you didn't mean it this way exactly but "do not get attached" also applies quite strongly to your initial spawn/camp, for the obvious reason that q will suck but also because you probably won't be close to useful, uncommon things like swamps, mountains, questgivers, and now oceans

>>16071269

Ok thanks but you don't have to be so rude

>>16070954

yes

and nice, but eventually dexterity will become less useful if you plan on being a miner or blacksmith. The rest will probably have their uses at least until 50-100, although psyche will be enough of an issue that you won't really need it that high unless you're a jeweler

>>16071286

I'm playing solo with friends, they just did a blind run for a few hours tonight, might join me tomorrow.

>>16071293

Oh nice. keep in mind this world has enough ocean that it might be very difficult to reach your friends without using wilderness beacons

>>16071321

Thatll teach you to build next to the water

>>16071378

This was just a forward base, and I kinda expected it. I just didn't expect such malice for no reason. They didn't touch my stockpiles, so I was able to maintain the 2 wood glue I was saving up for, so that was halfway to my main goal for tonight, so it's honestly not much of a setback

Okay I'm going to log off for the night. I put all my valuable stuff on my inventory, but put a bunch of other shit in crates on a cart. How do I secure this decently? Is a cave good enough?

>>16071384

>I just didn't expect such malice for no reason.

>>16071410

Use a leanto you fat nigger.

>>16071431

Don't they just need to push a crime toggle to trespass and rummage though?

>311 on from Russia, 120 via Americas

oh no

>>16071575

It's midnight in America, and early Saturday morning in Russia?

another round of beacons will be set up soon for those of you watching and waiting eagrely

Alright we have a few beacons ready, post if you want in

>>16071985

I got my char ready

>>16072014

One lit for you now.

>>16072017

SATACABLE as usual

>>16072093

lighting one now, try it

>>16072116

Got it, thanks.

Can you light a beacon up?

>>16072193

Beacon lit

Interesting news everyone, we seem to be on one of the eastern borders of the entire map, but don't worry we have plenty of space in that direction.

>>16071282

I have it on good authority that if I'm not rude, even for a little while, my heart will stop beating and I'll have to jerk off to keep my circulatory system going. Nobody wants to talk to someone who's simultaneously super-nice and jerking off at the same time, even over the Internet.

>>16071279

The developer lessons are universal in scope and scale. The third lesson is less so, because it's pretty specific. I'll be gone for the next couple of hours because I've run out of whiskey and therefore tolerance.

Good luck.

Good, nobody found my cave stash. Now to go to work for another 8 hours

>>16072345

have people moved yet? I figured it'd be easier if i just know where the new place is by partying/being someone's kin and I can just follow to the spot, rather than try to time being with the caravan

>>16072447

most people made a new character and beaconed there, I would imagine due to how travel could take it would be easier to ask for a beacon for an alt character and party yourself to come over there

Race war against the slavs when

>>16072645

It's been raging since before you started playing this game, I assure you. It's a cold war now, and so I advise you to learn how to type these sample texts:

>Чего ты хочешь?

>да

>нет

>Мне нужно время.

The first is basically "The fuck do you want?" It's terse, because that's how Russians speak. All of Russian, aside from the poetry and some of the songs, is terse because they speak far less than they think. You might not believe it, given the number of Russians you see on youtube that routinely fuck themselves up, but you're not going to be encountering the dregs of Russian society in this game. Moving on with the lessons, the second is, "yes." The third, "no."

Do yourself a favor and code a cyrillic-to-english translator. When encountered with someone who appears to understand Russian, they'll hold because it's not as common as you might think. Like the Finns, they want to connect with someone but they don't actively realize it like those selfsame Finns do.

And finally, the last one. "I need time." The psychology of the Russian is vast and varied, just like the lands they occupy. This is a varied people, so there are a lot of things that must be considered with them. Asking for time is a common thing, as it gives you time to think and time to respond. Knowing how to spit this out in the middle of combat may save your non-Russian asshole from the savage plowing you probably deserve.

As an aside, Jack Daniels is fucking garbage, but their barrel proof stuff is pretty decent. Pleasantly surprised, though I wish it was cheaper.

This seems pretty fun, if I enjoyed playing Wurm do you guys think I'll enjoy playing H&H?

>>16072711

Depends. Do you like gambling?

>>16072721

As long as it doesn't require shekels, yes.

based server being garbage

did the server just fucking die or is it just me that can't connect

>The server appears to have crashed :(

>The server last talked to me at Sat Feb 2 18:13:12 2019 (UTC).

>Loftar says: Currently debugging. The bug seems related to the symbel.

First one to log in guards the cave.

So does this mean we're fucked?

>>16072724

Then you'll fucking love this game. Keep the wiki open, or you'll be sorry.

>>16072741

as long as we get our people back on quick, no

>>16072741

As long as they don't rush the cave we'll be fine.

get ready boys

>>16072763

It better hurry the fuck up, because it's the wee hours here and I need to fucking sleep.

its up

GET IN FAGGOTS

he got in the cave

how would someone be able to just assault a place so quickly after a server comes online? are there people who develop characters just to trash stuff and then log off when they find a settlement, waiting for an opportunity?

>>16072802

yes thats how new worlds always work

My hides get stolen so often i forgot how important jewmanry is glad i got it today

>cursor constantly disappears for minutes at a time

>finally find the option to force one-color cursor in the menus

>it causes all text boxes to be blank

FUCK

>>16072810

jesus, how small is the map? there's only like 1-2k people playing at any given time, maximum. It's only been a day, the map can't be that big if there's a whole bunch of alt-logout-vandalism fuckery going on all over the place already.

>>16072901

Jorb is a fuckup of a human being and enjoys strife. Previously, Loftar allowed for enough room for people to dick around and do what they pleased. After world seven or eight, I honestly can't remember which, Jorb's artistic vision was strong enough for him to convince Loftar to reduce the world size in order to force more conflict.

I'm given to understand that this game was never meant to make money, and was instead meant to create a zone for economic theory to play out. To that end, it's inevitable that conflict will break out so long as there is no playtime limit on the characters that are created, as the ones who invest the most time will inevitably be the most superior. You can understand, then, why they tried to gate playtime behind a paywall in a vain attempt to make a profit off of the game they've been most successful with. But there's a problem with this that ties directing into the social structure that the developers themselves live in.

When space and quality is tied to some parts of the land, it becomes a commodity that creates stronger peoples. With the existence of stronger peoples, naturally, it follows that they'll begin to expand in both land requirements and population size. Now, so long as the world lasts, everyone is simply dependent upon luck or gambling to find the best parts of the world to settle in. And so, it follows from the previous two assertions (land quality difference and population booms) that expansion will be required in order for people to continue living as they are.

But then, you find yourself confronted with Nazi ideology (namely, lebensraum, or living space), which is strictly forbidden in Sweden because of fucking course it is.

And so, you find two game developers trying their level best to deliver a fun game experience for a relatively small userbase without breaking a nearly-universal European law by endorsing the actions of the NSDAP.

>>16072963

along with a deep european folklore inspired game, jorb throws a hint of not being a soypilled swede every once in a while.

also

>griefnerd comes back

>claim is up, its 8 hours hold at last

>server had gone down previously right about when the claim would be active

>can't grief anymore

>"j-jorb saved you"

Why do I get the feeling that the griefnigger is more salty than we are about not being able to do lasting damage.

probably because were going to band together and demolish you real soon, see you in three days or less

>>16073044

No Swede is actually soypilled. They're simply conformist to a fault. They either can't or won't rock the boat when the opportunity presents itself, only when they can't be touched by the masses.

Notch is a prime example. Whenever he could afford it, he sold Minecraft to Microsoft and moved away. He's spoken against turbo-feminism when it tickles his fancy, and largely kept to himself instead of towing the party line about political correctness. Pewdie "Felix" Pie is another example, having moved to America and gotten stuck in the quagmire of political correctness thanks to the press. He isn't an oddity, from my experience with Swedes, but the silent mass of people that have been strangled by a cultural ideal subverted by sensitive cunts.

Neither Jorb nor Loftar are any different. No Swede is any different, really. They've just had their frame of reference hijacked by hostile outsiders. They, individually, want what's best for their people but have been convinced that others want the changes that have been thrust upon them.

>>16073200

> Pewdie "Felix" Pie is another example, having moved to America

He's not in America. He lives in the UK, Britain specifically. He does get targeted by the extremely progressive media however, all the time, because they're constantly trying to lynch him. Partly because they themselves hate him, and partly on orders from their masters on high telling them "this man holds unacceptably reasonable views and has too much influence in spreading them, try to ruin him." That's had the opposite effect.

Ironically, TotalBiscancer lived in Britain and came to America, and as time went on he became more and more of a left-leaning emotional maggot known for his explosive temper tantrums and totally irrational bouts of ranting. His girlfriend even had to intervene to keep his emotional impulses and salty rage under control.

>>16073328

Surely you jest. I'm almost positive he moved to America before he lost his original channel and had to start the "Pewdiepie" one. Then again, I have whiskey-colored memory and am completely willing to admit that I have misremembered.

Oh right you have to defend your claim for a while

>>16073328

Also, shit, I forgot to mention the reason the "masters from on high" order their minions to attack Felix. Youtube was about to take a channel on Old Media's turf, specifically a television channel. Old Media was forced to either concede that turf or destroy Youtube's reputation by hitting the content creators with the highest subscriber counts. Naturally, they opted for the latter because that would hit them in the ledger a little less in the short-term.

I'm told that Youtube has since stopped trying to get a television channel, because advertisers started freaking out and demanding the ability to stop advertising on youtubers that say relatively uncouth things. This has created a new problem, which keeps nearly anyone except Pewdiepie from hitting the record subscriber counts he's achieved, because it's impossible to use the same means he used to get to those heights. And so, Old Media has effectively backed Youtube, Google, and ABC into a corner they can't escape from without disregarding negative press and effectively unchaining Pewdiepie and his like to spread what Old Media now considers Hate Speech and Wrongthink.

But since it's still generating ad revenue, we'll simply have to deal with it. Because fuck you, that's why.

>>16059334

Loyal serf here ready to slave. How do I find you fellas

>>16073584

we can whip up a beacon. it will take us a bit though at the moment

>>16073498

>I'm told that Youtube has since stopped trying to get a television channel

Correct. And they've since tried compensating for that by implementing Youtube Red (or Premium, whatever it's called now) where you pay for content to "premium" channels. Shit like Vsoysauce Michael and other things, and they attempt to entice people with "free" premium eps here and there. I doubt that's going well for them.

Youtube's massive fucking problem is that it's nothing but suits and jews now (behind the site itself), and the entire reason YT even succeeded is because anyone, anywhere could post almost anything. It was New Media, and people were allowed to show, discuss, and report things from citizen to citizen without any gatekeepers. Along with YT's success came the bloat of money, management, and meddling, and the people ultimately who wound up in charge of it now are trying to make YT exactly like Old Media. Curating content, gatekeeping, controlling algorithms so the content they want people to see is seen and not the other stuff, courting advertisers and taking drastic measures when they're displeased, going to ridiculously insane and generous lengths to immediately shut down and close off anything that gets DMCAd or copyright struck or claimed. The spirit that made youtube successful in the first place is long since dead, and Pewdiepie knows it more than anyone.

>But since it's still generating ad revenue, we'll simply have to deal with it. Because fuck you, that's why.

It's also extremely difficult to get rid of him without taking a massive hit to the reputation and probably userbase. It's not a risk they're willing to take for a single guy, which says a lot, because the usual suspects are not above taking a hit to their popularity or their wallets if it really affects their propaganda pushing.

Beacons are ready, post if you want in

died in a watery grave, send secret.

>>16073794

Becaon burn out?

>>16074013

Its lit.

How far should i go to set up a permanent base? Is a mountain cave sufficient? Would the claim go inside or outside the entrance? How many screens away from a river is ideal?

>>16074040

Can I get a beacon relight.

>>16074466

I'll light one if you're still here.

>>16074597

still here

>>16074645

Its lit.

>>16073724

Suffice to say the reason I'm drinking and hanging out with you guys instead of the goons is that we largely agree on issues like these. And goddamn, I'm pleased to do so, in spite of not hanging out with you in the hearthlands.

May your trees be high-quality, and I say that with my previous statements about not being rude and jerking off to stay alive in mind.

How do I fix Travel Weariness?

>>16074694

In worlds past, you'd fix it by sleeping in a bed. Try that and see if it helps. If not, listen to strangers on the Internet.

>>16074694

get some wine or bear or smoke some crack

>>16074699

Fuck I didn't even build a shitty branch bed before I left

>Base was raided again when I got home, not even my decoy tanning was safe

>Cave burrow was left unmolested

>>16074705

Mistakes were made. You'll either learn from them or refuse, and quit before investing much more time. I look forward to seeing which you decide upon.

>>16074746

Well to my knowledge, the fatigue is new, wasn't it? I never accumulated it last world at the end. My new base is a cave, it is adjacent to a (lesser) used river, but I'm setting up some stashes a few screens deep and not disturbing the entrance at all.

>Walk past a bat a dozen times

>And I mean on speed 1, 2-3 tiles away

>Still aggroes

The worst part is that now I can't get into the cave safely and it was very difficult to exit the cave while under attack so I took a lot of damage. Fuck

>>16074781

>the fatigue is new, wasn't it?

No, it's not. It's been a factor to consider for a fair bit of time, though I can't say for sure how long. Travel weariness is a means of limiting worldwide trade and keeping it in the hands of characters that bother to improve Agility. They want the game difficult enough to attract autists but not so difficult that it drives away decent players, erring on the side of the former.

When the world starts getting settled, you may discover villages that have road signs that lead to other, friendly villages that require a great deal of Agility to make it to them. Be prepared for your Strength-oriented characters to be made relatively worthless.

build up LP, if you really dont feel like you are dvancing you just straight up need higher stats, start fishing and eat to your int and perception up and quest to get more lp/hunger meter. Dudes with assloads of perc and exploration are going to be very valuable for months gathering all sorts of things

>>16074879

Just keep making cone cows, anon. Mirkwood Offering seems good later, too.