d098af No.15846364
Any fags trying to search for that gets forced to play this party game as intended.
MY FUCKING SIDES
ce5f8b No.15846366
Smash is not a fighting game.
fa099b No.15846393
>>15846366
Now confirmed by nintendo :^)
9c6cd9 No.15846397
>>15846364
>Nintendo just banned Final Destination no items Fox only from Smash Bros Ultimate
9846bd No.15846407
>>15846397
As far as I can understand, it's just their new system in Smash where they ignore the modes you select if they can't find players with good enough connections that picked the same modes.
I might be wrong but it's not like OP will stop sucking cocks long enough to prove it.
4838ce No.15846417
IF YOU HAVE TO ARBITRARILY CHANGE THE RULES OF A FUCKING GAME TO PROVE THAT YOU ARE GOOD AT IT, YOU ARE NOT GOOD AT THE FUCKING GAME. GODDAMN SMASH FAGS ARE ANNOYING
d098af No.15846423
>>15846407
Stay mad Foxfag.
802b93 No.15846424
111557 No.15846438
It's not a traditional fighting game and it contains many Nintendo "blue shell" items that can undo everything you've done in a match.
Play something else if you want it regular.
96afa6 No.15846441
>>15846417
The purpose of the rules in the first place were to make the game more challenging.
8bfb70 No.15846450
>>15846441
>he needs a restricted subset of his family-friendly party game to make it look like a fightan game
>cries about "unfair" items and stages instead of getting gud
d098af No.15846455
>>15846441
No its to make it easier because "PRO" players can not deal with random events due to lack of skill.
8d1cec No.15846468
>playing smash online when it's garbage peer2peer for $20
>playing your gay smogon rules online where 99% of the playerbase either doesn't like you or doesn't care
>not just playing Smash in-person at your local high school with hardcore gamers such as yourself
786191 No.15846475
>>15846364
>Only 400k GSP
>Tfw I got to 550k with Donkey Kong and Dedede the same day I got the game
Feels good
0e23c1 No.15846494
>>15846485
>play a real fighting game
Ooga Booga sheeit das ryte! Sum realz fightan gamez lik Street Niggas V.
5aef58 No.15846496
>smash is a fighting game
fd3961 No.15846499
What did they do exactly? Are players not allowed to customize the online games?
96afa6 No.15846500
>>15846450
>>15846455
In tournaments, you need to restrict the amount of randomness. Having item spawns at unpredictable locations during unpredictable times can greatly assist a less-skilled player, therefore making their progression in a tourney unfair. This is consistent in everything, not just Smash.
20a9c0 No.15846501
Why ban it though, just let the hyperautism have their private fapshack
1197c2 No.15846502
>what do you mean I can't slap my testicles onto the asphalts in Smash Ultimate?
>this is competitive and extremely entertaining for both viewers and players
>trust me
802b93 No.15846503
>>15846494
How about Dragon Ball, the game of champions?
d098af No.15846510
>>15846494
No. Fighting games like KoF 13. No cunt mentions Nigger Fighter V these days that is not a fighting game that is a Red Bull advert.
>>15846499
People can search for matches with certain rules if they can not find the rules then they are put into the next open game no matter the rules. Basically 99% of the playerbase are using default rules. Tournyfags are being put into free for alls.
>>15846500
>Tournyfag
d84d9a No.15846524
There is something about Smash that makes people think backwards and really brings out the casual mentality.
>Devs dumbs down the gameplay simply because the creator hates hardcore players despite the game never being hard to play. This hampers the gameplay for everyone to spite 5% of the fanbase.
<This is great. Fuck tourneyfags. I don't even play with them but the game should be neutered just to spite them.
>Online features don't even work properly and actually go against the players rules they set. It could just be a bug as no other game game does this as it may make them miss out on a fight that they actually wanted to participate in. If Nintendo is going to make people pay for online, they could at least know try to get things right.
<So tourneyfags can't fight 1v1? Fantastic! Everyone's setting may be ignored but at least tryhards can't fight people the way they want.
It's a solid example of "It's OK when Nintendo does it".
d098af No.15846526
>>15846524
>Tournyfag 2 the fagganing
8bfb70 No.15846540
>>15846500
>can't adapt to randomness and unpredictability inherent to the game
>thinks he's worthy of participating in a fucking tournament supposedly about the game
d84d9a No.15846542
>>15846500
Not only that but it heavily benefits the faster character as they have a much better chance to grab the item even if it spawns closer to the slower character. Bigger characters don't even get a damage or knockback bonus from throwing items so the benefit only goes to the faster characters. Items in every Smash past Melee (maybe Brawl) also just come down to "I use this and you die". There's no skill or even a small advantage to using them. You simply get a massive advantage and someone is going to lose a stock. It doesn't make them feel as special.
SNK Heroines actually plays very close to Smash and uses items in a good way. You can make items work in games like this.
182706 No.15846543
>compfags ruin multiplayer vidya for years
>now they're being attacked in their own games
Perfect, although i wish it had been Overwatch or LoL instead.
8bfb70 No.15846546
>>15846542
Then why don't you play SNK Heroines instead of a stripped-down party game, faggot?
259640 No.15846551
>>15846524
Have any of you tried, I dunno, not being gay?
>casual fanservice bait series
<overgrown nintoddlers too autistic to have ever come in contact with a real fighting game take it way too seriously
>series continues in its obvious stated aim of being an easily digestible venue for fanservice
<overgrown nintoddlers stink up actual fighting game scene
daa0d6 No.15846561
>>15846500
>A "pro" player can't learn to adapt, impromise, and overcome.
fd3961 No.15846566
>>15846500
Consistent in tourneyfag circles. All other professional gaymers don't give a shit.
e1cd5d No.15846571
Good thing Waluigi skipped this dumpster fire
7ea30a No.15846575
>Doesn't know about anthers ladder
>Doesn't use 3rd party places to set up his matches
???
7cf6a4 No.15846576
>>15846524
The last two years have been "It's okay when Nintendo does it: The Movie"
223864 No.15846592
>>15846500
Everyone is shitting on this guy, but what he says makes perfect sense.
You really do want to reduce the "random noise" which has nothing to do with player input to a minimum.
What doesn't make sense is how some people want to turn a party game made specifically so everyone can have a winning chance into an e-sport.
c5c513 No.15846593
>>15846551
This. Smash has always been an easily-accessible game quite literally designed for casuals. Why get upset over the developers continuing to design it as such?
7409c9 No.15846594
>>15846500
In Tennis, randomness is dealt with by making competitors play a set of multiple games, with the winner having to win by at least 2 games, the idea being it's hard to get randomly lucky for multiple games and then twice in a row.
Why don't tourneyfags set up their tourneys like real tourneys instead of deleting half of the game they claim to be good at?
0a1216 No.15846599
7ea30a No.15846608
>>15846594
>Deleting half the game they claim to be good at
Every single game has meta maps and meta settings for competition. CS:GO uses a select few maps and they tweak the ruleset to the point where gameplay is unrecognizable to "official" competitive play. TF2 bans items. League of Legends has banned picks, I think? Either way, a lot of games ban shit to make it more competitive. I don't see how it's special when Smash does it.
2b177b No.15846616
Serves the smashfags right
daa0d6 No.15846624
>>15846592
if it wasn't for RNG, there'd be an e-sport scene about mario party, anon. It's in people's nature to be competitive; competitive about anything.
d8fbc7 No.15846625
>final destination
>no items
<fox only
He doesn't really matter. Fox hasn't been OP since Melee.
>Smash 64 tier list
S
A Fox
B
C
>Melee tier list
SS Fox
S
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
>Brawl tier list
SS
A+
A-
B
C+
C Fox
C-
D
E
F
>Smash 4 tier list
S
A Fox
B
C
D
E
F
>Ultimate Day 1 tier list
Top
High Fox
Mid
Low
Fox has always been relatively good. Just not OP like his old Melee days.
Sources: https://www.ssbwiki.com/tier_list ,
and pic related (obviously a roughdraft; players still need a year or 2 more to finalize a better Ultimate tier list)
d098af No.15846626
>>15846608
>Every single game has meta maps and meta settings for competition.
7ea30a No.15846627
>>15846625
>Piranha plant
>/ss/
7409c9 No.15846629
>>15846608
>tweak settings until "unrecognizable"
you mean 120ping? Have you ever heard of a pro csgo event banning certain weapons or grenades? Nobody removes game content like smashfags do
>t-they prefer certain maps…..
so? are you mad smash tourneys don't play custom minecraft maps either?
259640 No.15846635
>>15846592
This. Just like Mario Kart compared to an actual racing game, Smash is designed so that everyone can play alongside the young, inebriated, and retarded, with everyone able to win somewhere in the mess of a 4-player slap up.
8bfb70 No.15846636
>>15846608
>a lot of games ban shit to make it more competitive
>I don't see how it's special when Smash does it.
Alright, let's look at your examples.
>CS:GO
Cancer
>competitive TF2
Stripped-down TF2 for nofun esports fags
>LoL
Cancer
It's not special when Smash does it: your other examples are either cancer or not designed with esports faggotry in mind (TF2). Smash just happens to be both, so you get the worst of both worlds.
7ea30a No.15846637
>>15846629
They haven't had to ban certain weapons or grenades yet, but TF2 certainly has. Also, the timer is changed, which makes the game play significantly different. There's a huge difference between playing MM 'competitive' and going by tournament rulesets.
55fe03 No.15846640
>>15846637
TF2 is also dead
7cf6a4 No.15846642
>>15846608
Banning items leads to predictability. People will always take the most efficient ways and paths to victory, and once you have those memorized being good is all a matter of reaching that area first.
The Rocket Jumper for example, completely fucked up Pro Snipers in the TF2 community and they cried to get it banned. Hell, let's be honest and we all know I'm going to get to it , so let's not beat around the fucking bush.
Everything around Professional TF2 is about making Sniper Players happy.
>Demoman gets nerfed, Sniper gets a buff.
>Spy gets a nerf, Sniper gets a buff.
>Everyone gets nerfs, Sniper is untouched.
>Pyro gets TWO nerfs, Sniper gets a buff.
>Medic loses viability across the board, Sniper gets a buff across the board.
d098af No.15846645
>>15846625
This shit this autistic shit right here is why the devs took away For Glory. Take the message the Smash devs hate meleefags and tryhards they want you to fuck off. So fuck off.
7409c9 No.15846649
>>15846637
>gets btfo
>changes subject to another faggy game not meant to be taken seriously
so you admit only shitty gamers actually remove content from games while pretending to be good at them, thanks for being honest
7ea30a No.15846656
>>15846649
I don't see how it matters. If you don't like it, don't play it. Keep playing your shitty free for alls.
11f404 No.15846662
>>15846542
Yeah, fuck items in Brawl. They're either totally fucking useless or cost a free stock. They're not fun to play with even casually.
f4edb1 No.15846665
>>15846500
That's why there are no river runes in dota, the literal biggest assports in the world
8bfb70 No.15846667
>>15846656
>shit taste smashfag who appeals to CSGO, LoL, and "competitive" TF2 also has shit taste in memes
d098af No.15846668
>>15846656
>Forgets Free for Alls is all he will be playing as well.
7ea30a No.15846669
>>15846668
>Implying I'm not just using smashladder
7409c9 No.15846671
>>15846656
it doesn't matter, which is why it's so funny that you're so mad
3ff1e3 No.15846672
>>15846667
QUEM OUSA OFENDER A AUTORIDADE DIVINA DO GRANDE SOLDADOR NOIADO
524df0 No.15846679
>>15846636
Competitive TF2 was an entirely grassroots and community driven endeavor and about as far removed from e-sports as a competitive FPS could be. Sadly it has become incredibly stagnant, it used to be really fun.
>>15846640
Competitive is. The game itself still hits 60-70k players a day. I'd hardly call that dead.
d098af No.15846681
>>15846669
>Smashladder
We got ourselves a meleefag Anons. Fireup the shower and get the deodorant warmed up.
8bfb70 No.15846687
>>15846669
>smashfag uses >implying
You're so new that fucking with you is basically pedophilia.
2680ec No.15846689
>>15846364
>autists who obsessively play Smash Bros "competitively" don't have even a single friend to play against
ca7e11 No.15846691
>>15846679
>comp tf2 was grassroots
From maybe launch til f2p. Even during the height of comp tf2 from '08-early '10, the reddit comp playerbase was the most vocal. Valve always cowtowed balance changes to whatever the whiners on reddit felt like bitching about. Biggest offender and propogator of this shit was Tr4nny(b4nny), fuck that pencil-necked shithead.
d84d9a No.15846696
>>15846551
>casual fanservice bait series
In which, upon closer inspection, had a good deal of depth. Some people got good at it. Tetris and Puyo Puyo are also casual games. Doesn't mean people can't become great at them.
<overgrown nintoddlers too autistic to have ever come in contact with a real fighting game take it way too seriously
I play many fighting games. If you want to play on Fightcade then I'm open. But I mainly play Nitroplus Blasterz, Koihime Enbu, and Million Author Arcana Blood. Still learning Third Strike and Million Author. If you're talking about other Smash autists, some do play other fighters like Leffen playing DBFZ.
>series continues in its obvious stated aim of being an easily digestible venue for fanservice
That's the part I mean where "It's OK when Nintendo does it." Every other game on /v/ would be lambasted if it suddenly cut it's good mechanics down for no reason. Even casual games like Harvest Moon or Rune Factory can still be casual but improve upon the game mechanically. Smash has always been casual but the earlier games didn't intentionally remove the more complicated mechanics. There's no reason to even do so as these mechanics don't effect casuals. If casual ever felt the desire to get better, they could do so. The only reason to dumb down the game would be to spite skilled players. But even if you remove these mechanics, they will destroy casuals anyway so what's the point?
<overgrown nintoddlers stink up actual fighting game scene
That is pretty disgusting. It's only Smash too.
>>15846645
>Knowing how good a character is compared to others is autistic.
Despite cuck becoming the new buzzword, autistic/autism is still a buzzword.
>>15846662
It's lame that they never brought back soccer balls. They were one of the better items in Brawl.
c135a0 No.15846697
Jesus christ you are some faggots in this thread.
Read a basic thread from another forum and you'll find countless people with evidence complaining about this. Its a valid complaint because you're paying nintendo for the online experience and it somehow is worse off than the WiiU.
Its similar to fallout 76 levels of incompetence but not nearly as far reaching or severe.
13da79 No.15846700
>>15846697
>tourney fags getting BTFO is comparable to a game just flat out not working
Take a shower.
cb2c15 No.15846706
Smash is for niggers and normalfags
11f404 No.15846708
>>15846696
>they never brought back soccer balls.
but anon
They just did
d098af No.15846710
>>15846696
Autism is an actual word and it describes you perfectly.
d8fbc7 No.15846711
>>15846691
>valve caring about what reddit says
Should have been a huge red flag in hindsight
8bfb70 No.15846712
>>15846696
>my nintendo party game is deep if I cut out the mechanics I don't like
>watch me list fighting games to validate my opinions
88bcef No.15846717
This thread reminds me why I stay the fuck away from Smash. I don't care if you play it as a party game or as a fighting game; I just hope you have fun. The community around it though is basically all just bickering over "I'm better because I play the game THIS way" shit. What happened to just playing games you like and being happy that you like them?
259640 No.15846718
>>15846696
>If casual ever felt the desire to get better, they could do so. The only reason to dumb down the game would be to spite skilled players.
Anon, ask yourself a simple question: If superior players WERE better able to consistently beat worse players, would or wouldn't that be directly contrary to the fundamental design goals of party games like Mario Party, Mario Kart, and Smash?
cb2c15 No.15846730
>>15846717
Welcome to the FGC, the most digusting group of humans on the face of earth.
8d1cec No.15846732
>>15846730
>implying niggers are human
88bcef No.15846737
>>15846730
What? I didn't say anything about FGC. I think fighting games are awesome and I love the feeling of excitement and getting better that they have. In fact I'm one of the people that plays Smash a little more to the side of it being like a fighting game; I think playing with items on and having four people still has its merits though and if someone prefers to play that way, then I think that that's awesome and I hope they have fun with it.
55fa4c No.15846740
so this is about the matchmaking and how someone looking for omega stages with no items can potentially have their choice overridden by whoever they're matched with, right?
524df0 No.15846741
>>15846730
>Smash
>FGC
Not like they're better off with an obnoxious faggot like SonicFox representing them. EU FGC is still pretty chill, but the NA scene has been overrun with identity politics.
cb2c15 No.15846753
>>15846737
I like fighting games too, but the FGC that sprouted up around them is one of the worst things to ever happen in vidya. Brought in way more normalfags than you can imagine.
543779 No.15846756
>>15846737
Is that a crop or is there a full pic?
88bcef No.15846761
>>15846753
I actually don't care much about normalfags anymore. I used to, but I eventually met a couple and realized I was just being dumb by thinking they were the worst thing ever. All I really care about is that they're having fun with the games they're playing. Yeah, things being dumbed down in games sucks but I consider that an entirely separate issue because lots of normalfags enjoy complex and difficult games too.
d84d9a No.15846769
>>15846718
Yes, and there's even a handicap function in Smash. If the good player was that good then they can just put a handicap on him to make it fair. In Mario Party they reward you for getting the most coins and beating the most minigames (both are usually tied together) so I wouldn't really count that. Mario Kart tries very hard to hamper good players but if good players know how to get around a blue shell there's not much that can stop them. In fact a good player would most likely stay in second and then burn his items to win in the last lap.
>>15846741
You can simply play fighting games with others and not deal with all those guys.
9365c0 No.15846770
I thought these dorks just played Melee anyway? I don't defend dicking around with features like that but there's that.
c81565 No.15846771
>>15846761
fuck off normalfag
24c6ae No.15846773
I never thought this place would get completely overrun by casual retards with no hand eye coordination. Guess I was wrong.
7409c9 No.15846780
>>15846773
smashfags eternal tears
9d3efa No.15846802
>>15846510
>Fighting games like KoF 13.
KoF 13 isn't even a good KoF game, the only KoF games that are worse than it are 12 and 2001
55fe03 No.15846806
>>15846769
who the fuck will you play with that takes fighting games seriously, then?
142e02 No.15846808
>>15846769
>a good player would most likely stay in second and then burn his items to win in the last lap.
On the other hand, the item boxes give a lot of bananas when you're in first place so you can counter that tactic.
ed16ad No.15846810
No no no, you know what this means?
It means there is legitimately so few people searching for 1v1 no items across the world. It has to match these people into games with items and FFA
88bcef No.15846814
>>15846806
I've made plenty of friends who like to play and take the game at hand seriously while still being awesome people. I had a bunch of great sessions of Guilty Gear REV2 and Melee SD Remix with my friends and they were both an absolute blast to play.
524df0 No.15846816
>>15846769
Sure, that's what I'm doing anyway. If you try to play any game competitively or just want to be good at it, and you start searching for other people that share the same interest/goal, you're probably going to be forced into interacting with the community surrounding said game eventually, though.
142e02 No.15846818
>>15846810
trust friend computer
522a82 No.15846826
>>15846417
The whole point of having modifiable game rules is to allow you to enjoy the game you want to enjoy it. I think they're silly for writing off the whole rest of the game, but I'm happy to let them have their fun. Would you rather the game had less options if only it was "getting one over on the tourneyfags"? You're cutting off your nose to spite your face, mate.
88bcef No.15846836
>>15846826
I agree lots with this post. The spite people have is a little too silly when it comes to things like this, and honestly I think it's spurred by the fact that so many other people act like that to the point where others start to develop their own spiteful opinions after seeing so much of it. At the end of the day, Smash or not, we're all playing video games and having a good time together.
12e309 No.15846837
I've played hours of no items 1v1 final destination online multiplayer matches today.
What the fuck is OP talking about?
47b271 No.15846842
>>15846364
BACK TO YOUR CONTAINMENT THREAD. NO ONE ELSE GIVES A FUCK.
c5b052 No.15846844
>>15846364
And yet they implemented a retarded baby difficulty mode in Mario Odyssey.
gg Nintento.
c0a96b No.15846845
This only reaffirms my belief that only autists play Smash. Any game that has any element of randomness, either by stage craft, or items, throws them into a fucking fit.
96afa6 No.15846849
>>15846594
>Why don't tourneyfags set up their tourneys like real tourneys instead of deleting half of the game they claim to be good at?
Because real tourneys are real.
>>15846561
>>15846540
Of course they can, it's just unfair. Most of the items are implemented as balancing mechanisms because they're for parties. If they were introduced in tourneys, I would think you might see a decline in variability with people opting to choose characters based on recovery more than anything.
>>15846542
If you don't mind elaborating, how does SNK Heroines do it? Are items predictable?
948e57 No.15846866
I've been playing no item 1v1 final destination matches just fine. So I'm not sure what's happening.
55fe03 No.15846872
>>15846836
i'm playing and having a good game by myself
>>15846849
aren't there like 3 viable characters in melee anyway
522a82 No.15846875
>just play a "real" fighting game
No. They're shit. Only niggers like those nigger games. Stop being a nigger.
8bfb70 No.15846884
>>15846849
>it's unfair
>doesn't get gud
That's the problem: instead of building strategies around the actual game you artificially limit the game to a subset because it's "unfair." You don't adapt, you don't get gud or find new strategies to overcome unfair situations, you just whine and demand said situations be banned.
Such people are not good at playing Smash, just like the man who only drives on a controlled test track because he can't adapt to unfair situations like road conditions or other bad drivers cannot be called a good driver.
cbf01b No.15846891
>can cancel taunts now
>an actual baiting mechanic exists
>cant taunt in online
Why the fuck would you do this?
48ad51 No.15846894
>zero evidence
Sage and report.
d84d9a No.15846904
>>15846808
Bananas are easy to avoid and can prevent you from getting fucked by red shells. The only thing you would have to worry about are Bullet Bills (just look at the mini-map and move off the middle of the road), star powered racers, and lightning. Can't really do much about the last 2 but they don't come that often.
>>15846806
I have friends to play with locally and things like Fightcade allow me to play with good players around the world with small ping. You could also find a local fighting game scene. If they're full of faggots, then leave.
>>15846816
The internet makes it easier than ever now.
>>15846849
Item boxes appear randomly on the screen and you need to hit them to get the item. Once you have the item you can use it at any time besides when you're in a combo. Items are mainly used for extending combos, extending block stun pressure, and controlling movement. They can't even kill people as a super is the only thing that can kill people in the game.
>>15846875
>Most fighting games come from Japan in which many are played in arcades.
>Japs are now niggers.
>>15846884
If you had an experiment to test something then you would try to eliminate as many random variables as possible. If a tournament is made to test the skill between players, then random items getting in the way wouldn't show off their skill. Imagine fighting Vergil in Devil May Cry 3 and right as he's about to kill you a bomb appears right in front of him and he dies. While hilarious, I believe many players would feel cheated out of a good boss fight.
>>15846891
Wait is that true?
b12ff7 No.15846906
>>15846561
Not a tourneyfag but I can understand the butthurt. The game is explicitly designed not to have fair fights, but to give everyone an unfair chance of winning so even people who suck can have "fun". It's what makes it a party game. So when an idiot tries to play the game as though it allowed fair fights (which it doesn't) he's going to be frustrated.
d098af No.15846909
>>15846814
>Melee SD Remix.
Consider jumping off a cliff and take those friends with you when you do it.
88bcef No.15846911
>>15846909
I can't hear you over all of the fun I'm having with it
d098af No.15846925
>>15846911
>Can hear text on 8chan.
That sounds like stage 9 super aids. Seek medical advice.
88bcef No.15846939
>>15846925
You know what you might be right
0d7a33 No.15846943
8bfb70 No.15846945
>>15846904
If a tournament is an experiment made to test the skill of two players at a certain game, cutting out parts of the game you don't like makes the experiment less valid. The watered-down tourneyfag version of Smash is thus an inaccurate and fundamentally flawed way of determining whether someone is actually good at Smash.
Your Vergil comparison is also flawed because Vergil is an AI character who only reacts as he's been programmed, not a human player who can react on the fly and potentially avoid the bomb. Said player avoiding the bomb despite it being an unfair situation would be an even greater display of skill had the bomb never appeared. Until Smash's competitive scene accepts and embraces this fundamental part of the game, they will always be a laughingstock.
c0a96b No.15846969
>>15846925
>he doesn't have an inner voice to narrate text to him
8bfb70 No.15846979
>>15846925
>>15846969
>he doesn't imagine a comfy /ara/ narrating 8chan posts to him
d84d9a No.15847095
>>15846945
>cutting out parts of the game you don't like
But I do like items. Items aren't included because they're not a test of skill as they give a huge advantage to fast characters while being "I win" buttons in later games. Slower characters are immediately screwed over when items are in play. Many assist trophies and Pokeballs completely dominate characters and if they're busy avoid that Pokemon or assist, the player who summon it has a chance to get another item. There are also the moments where someone would have a clear advantage but an explosive item appears in front of them mid attack. The skill in Smash doesn't come from how you use items as any player can easily use an item effectively with the exception of physics exploits.
The skill in Smash comes from proper movement, footsies, chaining juggles, and denying the opponent from coming back on stage. An item ignores the player doing any of these things and does it for them depending on how powerful the item is.
For the Vergil part, I'm talking about items appearing mid attack. There are time is Smash when you know someone is going to roll behind you. So you do a slow smash attack in the opposite direction. If a bomb appears in front of you while you're charging the attack, you can only accept your death. Their was no predicting it or getting around it as the item could have appeared anywhere. When killed this way, what did we even learn?
>>15846979
When will we have have a quality meaty girl with lots of art again?
20de09 No.15847097
HAHAHAHAHA
Party game for Nintenkiddies
c72ee0 No.15847108
60fe8a No.15847115
>Smash isn't a fighting game
>If you're so good then play with items on
This many years later and there are still people taking the bait.
8bfb70 No.15847128
>>15847095
>The skill in Smash doesn't come from how you use items as any player can easily use an item effectively
I never claimed that, I said the skill comes from succeeding in spite of your opponent using said items. If you can't win in spite of tennis-style multiple games to account for item randomness, you probably aren't that good or adaptable in the first place.
>When killed this way, what did we even learn?
That forcing Smash into being a (((competitive e-sports experience with a level playing field))) is a joke and you should consider playing something else.
24c6c0 No.15847141
>>15846826
The issue is that these people have actual brain damage and refuse to fucking shower and not break TVs. They're somehow worse than the rest of the FGC put together. Not to mention their scene has absurd amounts of match rigging, blatant player favortism, and all this other bullshit that makes them an absolute mockery
bf5951 No.15847155
>Perfectly timed shitpost showing roadkill mentally destroys competitive Smash players.
Why are Meleefags this fragile?
d84d9a No.15847172
>>15847128
>Rondo Duo
The goofy animations are better than the porn.
2e2793 No.15847173
>>15846625
he was kind of crap in brawl
f1a473 No.15847186
>Smash fags
Oh no, they are ruining your party game.
e9e93d No.15847258
So which tourneyfag scene will die earlier, Melee or Ultimate?
541e70 No.15847279
Remember that anyone who plays Fox if a furfag.
c5b052 No.15847301
The funny thing about this is that Smash will still have a more active player base than SFV.
46b160 No.15847307
>>15847128
>account for item randomness by playing multiple matches
>but cutting out items completely and just playing a fraction of the matches is SUPER ULTRA BAD NEVER EVER DO THIS
8bfb70 No.15847322
>>15847307
>determining who's better at playing a game by playing an autistic subset and not the actual game
96afa6 No.15847326
>>15846884
There is no strategy to at least mitigate the effects of randomness other than continuously anticipate that something random is going to happen. Even games that are almost entirely dependent on randomness like Poker have stages so you know when the randomness occurs. Like, if there was a rule as to the circumstances the item spawns like, lets say, for every 5 seconds of no damage, and item is to spawn, then maybe you will start seeing them appear in competitive Smash. That doesn't exist at the moment, so you won't see it. And, as I said, most items will just knock off one stock.
>Such people are not good at playing Smash, just like the man who only drives on a controlled test track because he can't adapt to unfair situations like road conditions or other bad drivers cannot be called a good driver.
Right, because I'd much rather watch people drive on the shitty Merritt rather than go to the Indy 500.
ab96e7 No.15847327
>>15847301
>slight recolours of characters
>25 burgers each
That can't be right.
cf052a No.15847336
Even if it does spite the tourney fags- the online features are lacking. I don't care that some things are gone (trophies and target smashing), but paying for a peer-to-peer connection, and not being able to play the matches you want is bullshit. Then again, being a party experience I guess it's the "try this" system. Like the anon below says- learn to adapt:
>>15846884
I think it's also why turn-based game fans hate fighting and FPS games- even when they aren't balanced. They can't adapt quick enough to what is happened. While with a turn-based game they have all the time to decide what to do. Yet- RPGs have more luck and random elements than most fighting and FPS games. Getting good in an RPG is keeping your health high enough so you don't die next turn while whittling the enemy down- making a controlled environment they can't lose in. Getting good in a fighting or FPS game gives them little to no chance to control outcomes except by playing well.
The tourney obsessed smash players hate the players who can shove a bomb up their ass, because they never learned to deal with items, and had to focus on the core mechanics for a lot longer to get gud. Sure they'll be the odd scenario where an item spawns right next to the other player, but that's why you have best 2 of 3.
>>15847128
>>15847172
It's OK. Had good VA work, but being it's porn they just need to moan good. The animation should be awful, but everything looks really soft.
It also has great reaction images.
46b160 No.15847339
>>15847322
<determining who's better at the game
>random item decides the match through chance
>w-wow such skill
d58e8a No.15847342
>>15847326
> Like, if there was a rule as to the circumstances the item spawns like, lets say, for every 5 seconds of no damage, and item is to spawn, then maybe you will start seeing them appear in competitive Smash.
What about the spawn location of an item being indicated a few(10-20?) seconds in advance?
9a9e10 No.15847346
Ah, thank you Nintendo for banning me and not allowing me to be disappointed with your shit online service. Truly my greatest ally.
60fe8a No.15847347
>>15847336
>Competitive turn based players
>Competitive real time players
Why are these mutually exclusive?
46b160 No.15847348
>>15847342
Which other game did something like that? I know there was one.
bf5951 No.15847382
>>15847339
>Speed to reach item.
>How to use item correctly.
>What items to ignore.
>How to defend against or counter said item.
Such skill indeed.
57d447 No.15847392
Niggers who think that items are fair in Smash, are the same people who think the blue shell is fair in Kart. Low IQ fucking plebians who need a crutch to get ahead.
bf5951 No.15847405
>>15847392
>OH SHIT this homo wants tourny legal Mario Kart.
God fucking damn not laughed this hard in years.
de3a59 No.15847411
>>15847392
I wish tournaments of smash where with items, and i have a 200iq, fight me you nigger
46b160 No.15847418
>>15847382
>all of this can be boiled down to >item spawns, someone presses A twice and people lose stocks
96afa6 No.15847424
>>15847392
There is actual strategy in combating the Blue Shell like hanging out in second place or conserving the correct items. It's also easy to account for probability and you know that whenever they hit an item box, there's a chance it can be picked up. Mario Kart is a party game anyways.
bf5951 No.15847430
>>15847415
How the fuck is a blue shell fucking socialism…
>>15847418
Git gud.
57d447 No.15847436
>>15847424
You Nintendo cocksuckers love to always say that these competitive games are just 'party games' when you're presented with an actual argument. No, the blue shell is pure fucking bullshit that just gives a middle finger to the best player in the room. You are a low IQ plebian nigger.
c5112a No.15847440
>Nintendo releases a Nintendo Directing stating how online will work
>Literally says in direct that match making would take awhile to have anons put in proper matches
>Direct says that anons may be put in matches they don't want so they can at least play
>Tourneyfags proven yet again to ruin everything they touch with their attention span of a fucking gnat
Tournyfags ruining fun for everyone again, what else is new?
8bfb70 No.15847441
>>15847326
>>15847339
>items are part of the game
>you show your skill at the game by…banning items
>autistically rejects the common sports practice of multiple matches (as mentioned by >>15846594 and >>15847336 ) because he doesn't want to anticipate the possibility of his opponent getting an item or a bomb showing up
At best you aren't good at Smash, only a subset of Smash. Likewise, someone from >>15847326 's racing counterexample would cripple his driving skills by only driving on a controlled racetrack.
>but I watch/play Smash for the subset and not the full experience
Learning to account for and overcome randomness and unfair situations is important not just in gaming, but in all aspects of life. The Smashfag's ban-happy mentality ensures that even if the game existed without items or other disliked features, the scene will always be stagnant and full of sore losers who survive by aping the meta and getting curbstomped the moment someone does something unusual.
8b9206 No.15847443
Smash players have to cheat at their own game for people to take their game seriously. They disguise the bugs they exploit as “advanced tech” to trick people in to taking them seriously, but in reality they’re just glitching out a broken party game.
57d447 No.15847450
>>15847405
Nice strawman, you fucking troglodyte.
f37e2f No.15847458
>>15847430
>Targets the person at the lead (people who are the most capable and successful) and drags them down to the rest of the group (people who are less capable and successful). makes the race more "equal" by attacking success.
Use your brain anon.
bf5951 No.15847460
>>15847436
>Took too many blue shells up the asshole.
Best thing about the Blue Shell is that its also in Smash now.
57d447 No.15847466
>>15847460
Yeah, I take a bunch of blue shells because I'm a good fucking player. You are literally a communist if you think dragging down better people than you to your level is fair.
bf5951 No.15847495
>>15847466
>If you use blue shells your Vladimir Fucking Lenin.
Guess I'll go annex the Crimean Peninsula then.
57d447 No.15847508
>>15847495
Nice distortion of my argument, you fucking jew. The actual argument is that people who want to drag people down to their disgusting, ratlike existences like the jews did should be fucking genocided.
8276bf No.15847602
>>15847508
>>15847466
>>15847436
>getting this fucking mad at MARIO KART of all things
96afa6 No.15847609
>>15847441
Do you not think that every sport has tried to mitigate randomness besides by playing multiple matches? Why do you think they standardizing equipment and defining play space dimensions? The items are unfair not because of how they're used, but because of how they spawn. Until they fix that, they will never and should never be in competitive Smash.
>>15847436
Maybe the best player is hanging around in second place so dumb faggots like you get shafted instead.
789b9e No.15847627
>>15846500
>a "tourneypro" smashfag that doesn't understand the concept of balance and watering your game down to such arbitrary settings that the game becomes fucking boring
bf5951 No.15847635
>>15847508
>Use items in Mario Kart and your now a Rodent Jew.
Make up your fucking mind already 5 mins ago blue shells where communist weaponry.
789b9e No.15847644
>>15847609
>Maybe the best player is second place even though the winner is designated first place
fcf4e9 No.15847647
>>15847392
>>15847424
>>15847436
Also depends on what MK game it is, in DS/3DS/Wii U you can see what other items players are holding on the second screen, giving you ample warning to slow down to 2nd (while in other MK games you don't have this foresight). In it's first appearance in MK64 the spiny shell didn't have wings and would travel along the ground hitting any playing in the middle of the road on it's way to 1st place (this was brought back for 8)
The annoyance with the Spiny Shell began with DD when it gain wings and instead flies to first place and then hits the target with a large explosion that can also be used to hit the people near you if you slow down. Then got worse with MK Wii (even nicknamed "item rape") as it went from 8 to 12 players making the Spiny more common to be hit by.
The one issue that the Spiny Shell seems to be trying to solve with MK is the "untouched player in 1st", the situation where the player in first gets a good lead over the rest of the racers and can't get hit by common items (green shell, banana, etc), while everyone in 2nd to last place (8th or 12th depending on game) ends up being a bunched up group who just ends up fighting among themselves and only there positions change while 1st place keeps building up a even better lead. Weapons like Lightning (depending on game) hit everyone and slows them down (but lead players for longer) while Spiny Shell hits 1st place to slow them down and bring them back closer to the bunched up group of 2nd to last place.
This issue is more observable in races with human players and especially online (even MK Wii) than the AI racers because the AI have rubber banding to close the gap.
57d447 No.15847657
>>15847635
Jews are commies. Like, literal fucking synonyms. What are you even trying to say?
46b160 No.15847658
>>15847641
>using a cuckchan meme while saying this
please kill yourself
789b9e No.15847665
POST YFW YOU DIDN'T FALL FOR THE SMASH MEME
bf5951 No.15847666
>>15847647
>"item rape"
>Blue shells are now rapists.
Is there anything blue shells cant do?
96afa6 No.15847667
>>15847644
DURING the race, not afterwards. Come on, anon, don't pretend to be retarded.
074a16 No.15847674
>>15847658
I see you also had to turn off actual arguments too, typical melee fag
bf5951 No.15847677
>>15847657
What I am saying blue shells are neither commies or jews. They are just fucking magic shells that make autists on 8chan lose their shit.
57d447 No.15847689
>>15847667
>i'm in second place, not first
>somehow, I've deluded myself into thinking that I'm the better player
>i'm being smart and avoiding the blue shell, or some dumb shit
The mind of the neurotic jew, everyone.
60fe8a No.15847694
>>15847411
100% of the time I offered people on this board a chance to prove how they are superior in their "flexibility" with items on in an online match, they never say yes.
57d447 No.15847704
>>15847694
>posts a balding jew as a reaction image
You fucking rats are hilarious.
8bfb70 No.15847710
>>15847609
Yes, sports have standards. Smash's standards include items, and whether their spawning is "unfair" or not they're still part of the game. Calling the tourneyfag variant "Smash" is an insult to the original and I propose that we give the watered-down tourneyfag variant its own name to distinguish it from Smash proper, a party game with anticipating and countering random item spawns as a major mechanic.
df87bb No.15847717
You can just make your own lobby with whatever rules you want (including tryhard 1v1), though. The new arena mode is actually pretty good and can cycle through several people on a loser-out basis.
57d447 No.15847718
>>15847710
>I propose
Good thing no one gives a single shit about what you think, you retarded faggot.
96afa6 No.15847722
>>15847627
I actually agree with you on this. Smash does look and play fairly boringly without items due to the lack of combos, but the current implementation of them is unacceptable.
3ebd7a No.15847733
>>15847704
>everyone who disagrees with me is a jew.
>autistic reading comprehension
1/8 b8 got a r8ing outta me m8
57d447 No.15847746
>>15847733
What? I pointed out that you posted a balding jew. Are you retarded? Did all that inbreeding because your race is undesirable by women fuck up your brain?
bf5951 No.15847758
>>15847746
>He is still at it.
I am starting to think someone actually raped this guy with a blue shell toy when he was a kid.
3ebd7a No.15847760
>>15847746
>you posted…
>he can't read ID's
>>>/cuckchannel/
And stay gone
074a16 No.15847763
>>15847694
You're being retatded on purpose now. Let's break down items vs no items
Items
>have to play around them and know what power items to prioritize
>have to track enemy player movement and item spawns
>have to understand how your potential fighter pick interacts with item play i.e. light vs heavy, slow vs fast etc
>have to understand level interactions with item use
No items
>have to understand how your and enemy fighters work i.e. movesets, speed etc
The game is a clusterfuck with items, but that's the point. Smash isn't and will never be a true fighting game. it's still my favorite lite fighter party game
57d447 No.15847764
>>15847760
Filtered, you retarded fucking semite.
bf5951 No.15847773
>>15847764
>This utter fucking fag has gave me more entertainment than any Smash game ever has.
Shame I need to get some sleep now this shit is golden.
60fe8a No.15847774
>>15847763
I haven't played melee in years, but if someone wants to prove how all of these things somehow make "tournyfags" unable to win every time then I can start up netplay whenever you want.
96afa6 No.15847781
>>15847710
>Smash's standards include items
No. The standards are entirely dependent on the players or entities enforcing them. That's why you can change the rules. What we're arguing here is whether items are competitive and I have made my position on this abundantly clear.
cf052a No.15847782
>>15847441
Right. While I didn't mean competitive turn-based games earlier, if you have anything real time- luck will come into it. The calculated guess of where someone is on a large map, whether your decision in a fraction of a second on where you move will help or hinder your opponent based on his fraction of a second decision.
Getting good is about learning how something works, so it stops being luck, and you make calculated guesses. Maybe you look into the game's code and work out where items can spawn on a stage, when, and what kind.
I can get the frustration of wanting to ban something when it is unfair (as said elsewhere, you can get too far into the lead an Mario Kart and the Blue Shell is too harsh a solution), but it really is a party game rather than a serious one. Like with Pokemon- the second you try to treat it seriously it just falls to pieces.
1f7b75 No.15847784
>>15846494
Yeah man, Ooga Booga is also a very neat party game, you should try it out with some friends
1f7b75 No.15847790
>>15847714
god i wish that were me
8bfb70 No.15847816
>>15847781
The problem is by imposing artificial rules and bans on top of it, you're playing a (((competitive))) (read: cancerous) variant of Smash rather than Smash proper. You might as well declare yourself a chess pro by only playing an autistic variant with fewer pieces and movements, then screeching at anyone who tells you your custom game isn't really chess anymore.
50ec4a No.15847819
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
it'll probably be pretty easy to mod right? seeing as the hardware is so generic.
>>15846802
>doesn't play 2001
it's like you hate fun anon
804c20 No.15847848
>>15847694
Boy, I would slap your shit so hard if this was 15 years ago.
But i'm a feeble old man now.
680905 No.15847855
>>15847848
If items weren't banned you could use a walker.
813afc No.15847861
>>15847816
Look, friends. This is a jew misusing the (((echoes))) meme intentionally to take away its original meaning—that jews/commies are infiltrating every layer of society in order to fuck over the goyim.
cf052a No.15847878
>>15847816
Custom rules and the like can be fine- even in some competitive games.
The issue is "pro" smash players taking something inherently not balanced, tearing out a huge chunk of the game, and acting like it's on par if not better than a game designed to be competitive. Then to cap it off, they don't even try other fighting games, and have the worst reputation among pro fighting game players due to drama and not washing.
No one is playing pro-Twister where you certain positions are banned due to being too hard. No one is setting up a Hide-and-Seek league where you can't hide behind objects larger than X foot across or Y high. No one is demanding regulation shorter cups for tiddlywinks so that the game can be taken more seriously.
dfc7f5 No.15847879
>>15846500
>Having item spawns at unpredictable locations during unpredictable times can greatly assist a less-skilled player, therefore making their progression in a tourney unfair.
That would actually be a good thing for the smash competitive scene since its always the same 4-5 mega-autists winning the tournaments anyway.
074a16 No.15847906
>>15847774
>melee
You tourney fags really worship that game. I wasn't talking about ONLY melee, but smash in general. If you're so competitive play a real fighting game tbh.
96afa6 No.15847909
>>15847816
I really can't speak for the Smash community because I don't know anything about them, but I've heard they're huge fags. I know what you're saying so you don't need to use metaphors, but you're mistaken by thinking that Chess can be compared with Smash at all.
680905 No.15847919
>>15847880
>Choosing to keep racing and destroying his his friendships (and friend's couch) rather than taking the mature stance, taking the loss and using a restroom like a human being.
Sounds like unwashed tourneyfags.
cf052a No.15847922
>>15847879
That's also another reason why its so bad. Balance patches (even when they're bad) shake up the game with how characters work. Like some screencap said- the game is already mastered and no one wants to get their ass kicked by the same 4-5 people who win every year.
Ultimate allegedly is gonna balance characters when playing in that elite threshold.
804c20 No.15847925
>>15847855
You cheeky cunt.
4ee449 No.15847932
>>15846756
there's a full pic, it's futa, it's fairly badly drawn and madoka has a pointy ass
af27e7 No.15847951
This is what you get for giving them money, you have been warned multiple times.
8bfb70 No.15847961
>>15847878
Personally, I'm alright with banning stalling or whatever it's called when players get a little ways ahead and then intentionally stay out of reach for the rest of the timer.
>>15847909
>missing the point
d58e8a No.15847972
>>15847878
>and acting like it's on par if not better than a game designed to be competitive.
really
c5b052 No.15847998
>>15847602
Is this shotacon?
96afa6 No.15848013
>>15847961
I know what you're trying to say and I disagree with it because Smash is a lot more flexible. Suggesting that no items is lesser than items is wrong. This flexibility in options is also why I think your comparison with it to Chess, a game that is a lot more rigid, is inherently flawed. There isn't a wrong way to play Smash, but there is a competitive way.
670112 No.15848017
>>15846417
Competitive Mario Kart with no items being played on Wario's stadium
813afc No.15848021
>>15848013
>There isn't a wrong way to play Smash, but there is a competitive way.
No, that's retarded, I need people to be dragged down to my level REEEEEEE
c5b052 No.15848030
Didn't they also remove story mode from the current Smash?
d58e8a No.15848051
>>15848013
>This flexibility in options is also why I think your comparison with it to Chess, a game that is a lot more rigid, is inherently flawed.
Well, there are variants of chess.
d58e8a No.15848058
>>15848030
Only Brawl had a story mode.
The "World of Light" is pretty much just event matches with an overworld and grinding.
7409c9 No.15848059
13da79 No.15848082
>>15848017
SSF2 ryu only no hydoukens
543779 No.15848279
>>15847932
Gotta hate it when a crop is better than the actual pic.
865e4a No.15848323
11f404 No.15848326
>>15846417
DS1 estoc only no hornet ring
1f1a63 No.15848376
>want to play fun party game with bros
>having a good time except for THAT ONE GUY
>me and him left
>he plays it up 1v1 me faggit
>throw bomb at him for win
>he spergs about items are bad.
tourney fags are that guy. always that guy.
813afc No.15848386
>>15848376
None of that shit even happened, you fucking jew in Tel Aviv.
4ee449 No.15848419
>>15846943
not very nice of you, friend
48ad51 No.15848525
>>15848103
My thought process
>aw shit, I've never seen these variations
>I'll have to try playing them with my dad the next time I see him
>he died in August
>I'm all alone and I have severe memory problems
680905 No.15848562
>>15848525
You'll forget this too
But you won't forget the good times you had with him
865e4a No.15848629
>>15848331
that is a nice turkey
60fe8a No.15848678
I could also bring up 64 probably if you want friend.
23a816 No.15848679
What is it about Smash that makes anons unironically root for more casualization and needless RNG?
60fe8a No.15848689
>>15848678
for >>15847906
>>15848679
My only guess is that they got beaten in the game as a child by Timmy down the street and still can't let it go.
fe58fc No.15848699
>all these fags defending rng in competitive play because it's okay when it's smashfags being spited
Smash isn't a competitive game, and it's not even a fighting game. Even so, you are absolute retards and deserve to be lined up with the stinky day crew against the wall if you think the items in smash that will often give you a free stock have any place in a competitive game.
aefc92 No.15848702
>>15848689
My guess is they don't care about the game at all cuz it's a shitty party game and would rather see some upset tourneyfags :D
60fe8a No.15848709
>>15848702
Then why do they feel to need to shitpost in every smash thread they find?
e9e93d No.15848718
>>15848679
I've actually seen more completely split opinions here on both extremes than anything. At least it's more interesting than people shitting on any one game in the series or an aspect of the series because everyone else is doing so.
8bfb70 No.15848728
>>15848679
>>15848699
Because Smash's use of RNG could actually be interesting if tourneyfags weren't so opposed to it.
23a816 No.15848745
>>15848728
You want speedy characters to have even more of an edge?
567772 No.15848911
>>15848702
I'm not talking about Trash, I'm talking about the concept of heavy RNG in games that are meant to be, or can be made competitive. There's different levels of RNG but if a game is meant to be competitive, there should be easy access to a mode that completely removes all random elements that are part of the actual game. Randomness should come from the unpredictable nature of people: the inability to completely predict your enemy; the inability to completely plan your own actions.
e1ebdd No.15848957
>>15846594
>Why don't tourneyfags set up their tourneys like real tourneys instead of deleting half of the game they claim to be good at?
ed16ad No.15848967
>>15846608
>TF2 bans items.
>Honestly trying to use the TF2 Competitive scene for balance
259640 No.15848991
>>15848702
This. I doubt anybody is seriously saying that Smash's nintoddler party game design could be suited to high-level competitive play, it's just perfect bait to rail on the autism of tourneyfags that latch onto such a ridiculous game.
022e37 No.15849002
I think we'd see the highest skill played if the loser had to take a shower.
d07f39 No.15849048
>>15846524
>implying Melee isn't the worst one
Don't you have some guys bed to masturbate in meleefag?
4e38d2 No.15849160
>>15848728
Items only serve to make good characters better, and allow the guy that's already winning to snowball harder. I don't know why people seem to see them as some sort of equalizer when they are just as likely, if not more, to work in the benefit of the guy that is already in control of the stage.
789b9e No.15849193
>>15847819
>playing KoF as programmed by outsourced gooks
07e304 No.15849213
>>15849002
I don't get why they collectively don't shower or wear deoderant. It's not hard. Is it just that Smash attracts these specific kinds of weirdo fucks?
ed16ad No.15849283
>>15849213
From my experience in general, it's something that's kind of an issue with major attendees of all High level gaming* events tend to have that issue.
*High level gaming event meaning things such as Speedrunner meetups, eSports competitions, and the odd Genre meetup that isn't already being one of the BIG Big events like PAX or something
60fe8a No.15849286
>>15849213
I could do manual labor in 100+ degree weather and sweat less than I did at tournaments and that was the case for most people. It was pretty common practice to get prescription strength anti-perspirant when you went to doctor's office just for tournament days. The people that smelled the worst were the ones on adderall. You could tell who they were from multiple stations away.
ed16ad No.15849300
Also between you and me, I know for a fact that the diets of some of those people are horrible. Cosmo being a more extreme example, but the dietary condition of these people also has a massive impact on the smell.
07e304 No.15849304
>>15849286
>>15849300
Well that makes sense then.
60c0c2 No.15849880
>>15846608
>LoL
That's a terrible example. LoL and Dota have bans, but they're a part of the game. They happen after the game has started as a part of the pick phase, hell Dota's pick/ban phase has been rebalanced multiple times (used to be bans happened before picking, now its something like each side bans 2, each side picks 1, ban 2 more, pick 2 more, ban 1 more, pick 2 more.) It's not that a hero is banned from competitive because of balance reasons. Another example would be vetoing maps in competitive RTS. If I think I'm weak on a certain map, I can veto it. That's different than a 'competitive ruleset' that changes the way the game is played.
9533de No.15849903
My favorite part of any smash thread is how its suddenly ok to be a casual. People came up with simple rules to make a casual game more fair and competitive and all the casuals come out of the wood work to cry about people playing a game different from them. I feel like this somehow ties into the its ok if nintendo does it mentality.
f59b3c No.15849957
>>15846524
>>15841764
"It's okay when Nintendo does it" because it's the exact same argument normalfags use to defend nuGod of War all across the web.
>features or mechanics that make the gameplay more fun and engaging to play or options taken away is fine because it's a "different genre" or "not a X game"
The "Party Game" moniker for example is a perfect tool for fanboys to easily dodge any criticisms of their games. It's used a lot across fandoms for this very purpose. Smash is no different, the constant attempts to shift it off into another genre or it's own little genre only exists to defend and handwave questionable and shit design choices it has made over the years and fans will you tell you that you can't compare it to actual good mechanics from other games just because semantics in meaningless genre arguments. Whether it's actually in it's own genre or not is irrelevant. Likewise when God of War is compared to any other action game for how shit it's combat is, you have autists go "but it's not a game like Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry or Bayonetta, it's in their own genre!!" and push how the other games are "Character Action" game, God of War 4 is not a "character action" game and thus the gameplay criticisms don't matter, the gameplay isn't "supposed" to be deep or that good, the gameplay is designed for more casuals the degeneration of mechanics is okay because it was designed for "another audience".
The reality is that most smashfags are normalfags, that make the same types of arguments to defend shit game design, and that you are arguing with them parroting unironically the same points to defend their casual, water-downed series as other fans will use to defend their casual, water-downed series because they themselves are casual.
You bought the meme that just because it's /v/ it's free from normalfags and are arguing from a position believing that the anon you are engaging with is likewise from from being a normalfag. Correct this error next time you argue and things will make a lot more sense.
f59b3c No.15849970
>>15849957
meant to reply to >>15846696
also *free from
259640 No.15849979
>>15849903
>a casual game
>suddenly ok to be a casual
Yes?
>playing a game different from them
How about you either play an actual fighting game, or stop being a pretentious tryhard.
>>15849957
>God of War
GoW actually tries to market itself as a serious hardcore action game, rather than the casual "press x to continue cutscene" garbage it is. Nintendo, on the other hand, is perfectly upfront about Smash being a shallow, skill-free dispenser of fanservice.
35408c No.15850019
>>15846543
Made in Abyss game when?
0d7a33 No.15850025
>>15850019
After season 2 :^)
9533de No.15850034
>>15849979
This is exactly what I mean. Some people made a less casual way to play your favorite casual game and this is somehow bad? I didn't know casual games were so sacred despite about 5 normal fag casual games being made a year. This is why I think it's specificly a nintendo thing: Don't you dare touch a nintendo fags blessed game with rule settings literally in the game.
8f9ab5 No.15850080
>>15847641
>Using a cuckchan image
You have to go back.
ad208c No.15850100
>>15850025
Bondrewd did nothing wrong
ad208c No.15850101
>>15850028
>Make it faster
>Red adds hitpoints
???
cf22e4 No.15850118
How about we fix this laggy piece of shit this shit is worst then smash on 3ds and i had a lot of stable fun matches on that game then this 20 dollar a year crap
7ea30a No.15850119
>>15849957
It's not a different genre.
Smash is a fighting game, plain and simple.
03d38e No.15850140
259640 No.15850320
>>15850034
Nintendo is giving you exactly what you signed up for, in every single Smash "game". You have no reason to expect anything different.
Why do you expect sympathy when you attempt to build your hardcore competitive fighting game on top what has always forthrightly been jangling-keys-in-front-of-a-baby-tier fanservice?
f59b3c No.15850325
>>15849979
>GoW actually tries to market itself as a serious hardcore action game
The old God of Wars, maybe. This one clearly advertised itself as a more interactive narrative experience to finally characterize Kratos. Everything else was second.
>>15850119
Read my post again. Smash being a fighting game or not is irrelevant. I'm not arguing if it's a fighting, party game, both or neither. People will engage in semantics about what genre it fits into to defend shit game mechanics, even though the game mechanics are shit regardless of genre and they will defend them like casuals of other game series. Calling Smash a "Party Game" is the perfect example of their constant attempts to do this. It's only ever used to defend shit mechanics, handwave why the series core mechanics keeps getting watered down and to justify it being content to stew in mediocre gameplay changes and not as a serious attempt of classification.
Exactly what the God of War 4 fans did when anyone criticized it's gameplay. The exact same thing.
259640 No.15850331
>>15850325
>The old God of Wars, maybe. This one clearly advertised itself as a more interactive narrative experience to finally characterize Kratos.
a6ac27 No.15850389
>>15846636
Calling things cancer isn't an argument.
865e4a No.15850571
>>15848679
why do people miss rng mechanics for basic attacks in age of wonders 3? they say it adds a kind of depth and keeps things from being too stagnant. what is it about different opinions anyways?
918a8e No.15850630
>>15847710
>a party game with anticipating and countering random item spawns as a major mechanic.
You're even worse than tourney fags. On the one hand you're arguing that it's a party game, but on the other for some reason you're bragging about your skill at that party game. If it's a party game, then why are you trying so hard at it that you're anticipating and countering randomness rather than just reacting to it? You take it seriously enough that you want to impose your rules on other players, but in the next breath you deflect criticism of your rules by saying the game is a party game and not meant to be taken seriously. You should choose which argument you want to pursue because right now you're contradicting yourself. It's pretty clear that you're just throwing out any reason you can think of to support items being turned on just hoping that one of them sticks.
Sure you like items, but the arguments you've been giving for turning them on could just as easily be used to promote the tripping mechanic from Brawl.
>Tripping is in the game so that's how it is meant to be played.
>You're way of playing is watered down and improper because you cut out one of the default features by turning off tripping.
>You're artificially limiting the game by turning off tripping just because it is "unfair".
>You just don't have the skill to anticipate and counter random tripping.
>This is a party game it's fine if the best player loses because he tripped at a bad time.
>You're taking this too seriously.
Some games are just better with certain features removed. Tripping was one of those features in Brawl. It was a random thing that had an effect on the fight like items do, but it didn't come with any of the benefits that items bring. Making those points about tripping seems absolutely retarded because it clearly offers very little benefit to the gameplay. They only sound more plausible about items because items have value as a mechanic, but your points are still just as bad reasons to default items to on as they are to leave tripping in the game.
Items make the players have a more equal chance of winning when they're turned on. If you're going to argue against that, then you're just being disingenuous. Giving everyone an equal chance to win isn't always a bad thing though. If you're playing casually with friends, then it is nice when everybody has a moment where they're the winner. There's a reason that pen and paper games use a lot of dice rolls: Playing games casually with friends is a lot more interesting with random shit happening. You can laugh when your friend messes up spectacularly, and there won't be any hard feelings later because you were laughing at a bad roll of the dice not his lack of skill. Every moment is different from the last one and hard to predict, and it's enjoyable to watch where the chain of random events leads the group to. If you're goal is to have some light-hearted fun with friends, then items are a good boon to that.
If you're taking the game more seriously and the goal is to see who the best player is, then a dice roll that affects combat is a pretty big problem. I actually liked item use mechanics in the smash games I have played. It's a lot of fun to get the arc just right when you throw a weapon, and catching items that are thrown at you in mid air is satisfying. I think that if they were less random, then they'd be used even in serious games. If you gave both players the ability to spawn in with a held item or set them to spawn at the center of the stage at predictable times to reward stage control, then I think the people that enjoy playing to see who is better wouldn't default them to off. Like other anons have said the random spawning thing is a big problem if you want an even playing field. Some items like pokeballs probably still wouldn't be used in those settings because they're inherently random, but things like beam swords, fans, and healing items would probably see use if there was anything that made them not so randomly spawned.
Not every body is looking for the same type of fun. It's pretty clear that you in particular like random casual fun, have a bone to pick with people that enjoying taking these things more seriously, or really just love items for some reason. That's great for you; I hope you can get some games going with like-minded people. Just stop trying to impose your game's rules onto everyone's game. They're not for everybody. You getting mad at other people for altering the rules settings is even more ridiculous than getting mad at people for "insulting" a games source code by making mods for it. That shit is already in the settings, and it is clearly designed to let the user set the game mode how he likes it.
4e9ff1 No.15850642
>>15848679
I believe that the main idea is that Smash is a highly polarizing game in terms of Tiered options, look at all of them and there's always 3-4 characters who are THE META (i.e. Meta Knight in Brawl is so overpowered in an evenly matched scenario that the rest of the cast is invalidated by his presence on the battlefield), this includes 1v1, 2v2 and free for alls. Including RNG may help take down players who are complacent with keeping the same roster and the same rules over and over again. Though to be honest I hate that option too, since it means that you can throw a match because someone got lucky and all your time training went to waste. Case in point, some Assist Trophies may be okay but then there's shit like Shadow that basically gives you two free stocks on whoever is hit by the time-stop, which works on the whole stage.
d8c888 No.15850647
>all these butthurt nintendrones
smash was never, and will never be, a fighting game
294acc No.15850666
>>15850647
y-yes it will! it just needs rules… uh, like, like how smogon has made pokemon way better, is just a matter of time until Nintendo finally sees those rules make those games balanced!
022e37 No.15850669
>>15850647
Its a platform fighting game ;^)
9fbe35 No.15850718
>>15850630
Actually, counter intuitively, items make the game more stale and boring to watch and play at a high level.
In the early days of the competitive scene for melee, and at some meetups as a joke, items are turned on, and those games always end up being played the exact same way. The players choose the fastest character on the roster and go out of their way to avoid eachother and rush to powerful items to pick them up and use them. If the enemy gets a powerful item they will retreat and avoid it until the danger has passed. There is typically very little direct confrontation, players will rely on the item spawns almost exclusively. It gets to the point of boringness that they won't even throw pokeballs at eachother for fear of it being deflected and being summoned for the other player. This is the optimal strategy when playing with items on, and when people are playing competitively they will use whatever strategy they can to win. It's boring as shit and competitive matches with items will always come down to it when there is money or e-penis faggotry on the line.
This is also why large stages are typically not allowed. Players will get a small lead and then run away to stall the timer until they can get a win. It's a much safer and more consistent option, so people will naturally gravitate toward it. Super boring to watch and incredibly frustrating to play against. On some stages, particularly large ones with big circular routes through them, there is literally no counterplay options. It's also why Brawl is so notorious for timeouts, because so many characters can fly around the map with ease, even on maps like final destination, they can just fly under the stage and swap sides as neccessary.
It sounds stupid when you put it in a list, but most of the tourneyfag rules have been created to stop cancerous strategies that are boring for players and viewers alike.
>>15850647
I agree, it's its own genre and the sooner people stop trying to treat it like a standard fighting game the better.
865e4a No.15850725
christmas surprise! im the snow genie and ive pulled the strings of fate in such a way that tourneyfags prefer to play with items on but it turns out we still arent seeing variety from within the perspective of this new timeline in our matches because they still value speed for every reason they did before but now also to collect the items with in the first place as well as special abilities that interact with items like reflectors.
there would also be a gay tourney meta if they were to play on wacky stages with hazards, though perhaps a bit looser. it would slow down the game a lot though as sometimes its just not worth trying to journey through the hazards and just wait it out on some of the more egregious stages and to a lesser extent the stages that merely transform what terrain is available to you.
now what would be interesting is if the characters were designed around these things. like if the characters who were great at item control werent amongst the outright very best fighters even before considering that.
to conclude, no matter what rules youre playing by, fox still has everything going for him and the only thing that could change that is if for this very reason they added in some kind of item such as hair clippers that "chases down furry bastards and shaves them bald".
>>15850630
>There's a reason that pen and paper games use a lot of dice rolls
what else would they do though, make you play minigames like paper football or to shoot marbles?
865e4a No.15850765
>>15850718
even if we remove strategy and replace the desire to win with the desire to play well given the circumstances it wont be ideal. then we just get oversaturated with ballsy plays and such that while still impressive arent as interesting now, and obviously we cant just outright get rid of any sort of thinking ahead because even if youre only reacting to whats happening right this very second youre still probably going to attempt to react in a way that puts you at an advantage in the next second.
having these separate and distinct communities is really for the best because for the most part everyones getting what they want except when people feel the group they arent a part of is being catered to at their expense. thats why its radical to have options.
259640 No.15850774
>>15850718
>>15850725
>>15850765
>watch and play at a high level
>optimal strategy
>playing competitively
>meta
>if the characters were designed around these things
>desire to play well
>communities
<casual fanservice party game
>the sooner people stop trying to treat it like a standard fighting game the better
a03bfd No.15850782
>>15846524
>>Devs dumbs down the gameplay simply because the creator hates hardcore players despite the game never being hard to play. This hampers the gameplay for everyone to spite 5% of the fanbase.
This shit right here.
Brawl was the second and last SSB game I got and the tripping everywhere all the time (mostly because of Sackofshit's retarded running method triggering it) shit pissed me off to no end.
It at least clued me in to not getting that autist's games if he has a sperg fit that fucks the game up for people that don't care about playing souper srs.
>>15846712
>If you do x you're an outcast loser.
Where do you think you are?
>>15847951
I heeded that warning and stopped giving Nintendo money years ago.
d5f48d No.15850784
>>15850725
>what else would they do though, make you play minigames like paper football or to shoot marbles?
I think there is a need for randomness in some places, but the amount they use goes beyond that need. You wouldn't change much if you just did a flat comparison of stealth vs perception for example, and you would even save the time it takes to do two dice rolls. You could also very easily say that hitting someone with your sword always does 3+strength mod damage instead of 1d6+strength mod. The same thing goes for healing rolls. These games are played in a setting where each dice roll takes up a little chunk of time, but the people who developed it and the players that have continued to play it without revising it thought that the time trade off for those dice rolls was worth what they bring to the game. I think the reason that dice rolls are used in places where they could be bypassed is at least partly because unpredictability adds to the fun when you're fucking around with a group of friends. It's funny to watch a bunch of guards somehow not notice the heavily armored tank clanking past them. It gets the adrenaline flowing when your cleric rolls for healing when you're on the verge of death. Randomness makes the experience more exciting.
fcd32c No.15850808
>Anon used "Call tourny lot fags".
>Its super effective.
Is this thread /v/'s version of a Final Smash? Because the butthurt it has caused is epic.
36ccb2 No.15850999
>Smash is literally unplayable when experienced players play it as intended
<Smash isn't a party game, it's a legitimate fighting game!
d58e8a No.15851086
>>15850999
>it's a legitimate fighting game!
It should be, but the devs are retarded and have normalcattle audience that keeps enabling them.
000000 No.15851088
>>15846364
Good.
Smash is a party game.
Always was. always will be.
Smash will never be a competitive fighting game.
63fb90 No.15851119
>>15851088
Hitler dubs confirms Smash is a party game. Heil'd.
d07f39 No.15851232
>>15851086
>esports aren't normalfag bait
Have you ever tried playing a game instead of watching fat unwashed fags play them?
b9f774 No.15851526
>>15846543
This
They ruin everything especialy reddit fags
f5e134 No.15851700
>all the people in this thread pretending that it isn't their first time posting on an image board
>>>/reddit/
522a82 No.15851779
>>15851088
It's a party fighting game, genius.
27e87d No.15852724
>>15848728
>likes RNG
>"Learning to account for and overcome randomness and unfair situations is important BLAH BLAH I SUCK COCK"
Tripping in Brawl had a 1% chance of occurring everytime you dashed.
That shit happened to me 20 times a match and I did NOT dash 2000 times in a match
You sound like a noob.
89750c No.15852744
>>15852724
>gambler's fallacy
1 in 100 is the chance that it'll happen for every individual attempt. Any particular string of previous outcomes doesn't makes any particular outcome more or less likely to come out next. There's this fun experiment you can try at home: just keep tossing a coin and within a few hours you'll have it land heads 10 times in a row.
27e87d No.15852765
>>15852744
>just keep tossing a coin and within a few hours you'll have it land heads 10 times in a row.
More like 20 trips every fucking 5 minute match.
Listen I understand people can be lucky noobs and not even realize how lucky they get.
Luck is a phenomenon, and veteran gamers have been dealing with this bullshit and bullshit players for 30 years.
89750c No.15852769
>>15852765
It's just you won the Smash lottery. Take it or leave it.
89750c No.15852774
>>15852769
>>15852765
Oh wait no, it's just your distorted perception and confirmation bias. When you get lucky you think it's skill, but when you get unlucky you get pissed.
Get a grip, faggot.
27e87d No.15852778
>>15852769
>>15852774
baby's first troll
You want to play Brawl so I can use Meta-Knight and basically never touch the ground (effectively canceling out tripping all together)
I guess that's why they banned MK from Brawl tourney-play
or was that also triggering for you
ad208c No.15852822
27e87d No.15852830
f9d66d No.15852873
File: 598e4722a9be734⋯.png (Spoiler Image, 799.77 KB, 1554x961, 1554:961, dde70526d7ac489979d1bd9046….png)
99ce85 No.15852889
>>15848679
Stop using RNG as a catch all term for randomness or changing conditions.
I don't know that people are arguing for more casualization, but if they were, it will be because meleefags are so obnoxious and unbearable that they want nothing more than for them to fuck off.
e4e9ed No.15852891
>>15850320
> what has always forthrightly been jangling-keys-in-front-of-a-baby-tier fanservice?
Smash 64 and Melee were designed as alternatives to what Sakurai had called Street Fighter clones. They had Sakurai's now old I guess philosophy of being easy to pick up, but also allowing you to grow as you play more. It was fanservice, but there was some actual substance to it that let everyone have fun with it.
Why do you insist on rewritting history and claiming the older titles to be in the same category? Unless you're strictly referring to the new game, in which case I'd have to agree; it's pretty fucking stupid to try and play it with the same mindset of something like Guilty Gear, given how much Sakurai rails on competitive play.
9cf623 No.15852933
>>15848419
>>15846939
it makes it really hard to agree with you when you avatar like a massive faggot
23a816 No.15852935
>>15852889
>randomized item drops isn't determined by RNG
>muh meleefags
e29f98 No.15853006
>>15846417
>play Tetris Friends
>play in default ruleset rooms that send all garbage aligned along a single hole (instead of using balanced Expert+ ruleset which changes garbage hole every time you send lines)
>send 2 t-spin doubles (half the field) to guy1
>guy1 holds I, does t-spin double, then 2 tetrises (3/4 field) in literally 3 seconds
>also get tetris from guy2
>die (unless you're wumbo, hebomai or whatever)
>"defauld rules r balanced u need to adabt ur jus bad"
stupid moron.
1d63ed No.15853022
>>15852935
Because it's not entirely random.
The game will spawn them closer to the player that's falling behind in an effort to give him an edge so he can "catch up".
This was done with a very specific purpose: allow comebacks and keep the match from being too predictable (and thus, boring).
With a random items, when two players are playing, just because one is at 24% and the other at 120%, doesn't mean the 120% guy already lost. He can make a come back. On a 5 stock match, this might amount to one extra stock, not much, but it keeps matches interesting.
If you play to win every match, yeah, I can see why'd not like random items. But you sound really bad at the game.
Many, MANY years ago, I played Warhammer Fantasy. Had 3 different armies for serious play, and one to fuck around. One very important thing that I learned on that game: if you try to make an army that can win EVERY MATCH, you'll succeed until something different comes along. Then you'll lose every match that new thing throws at you.
On the other hand, players that made armies to win "MOST OF" the matches fared a lot better, not just on regular battles, but even when the meta lurched something new and fucked everything up.
The idea was to not specialize your army in doing a single thing, keep some options open and if possible, use some points in "odd" things that complement your army with stuff they don't normally do. You'll not use them most of the time, but when you do, they change the game in your favor and then the other guy cries about RNG, sound familiar?
You know what killed WH:F near where I lived? The last few codex's that were sold here changed the game to remove options. To remove random, to remove the unexpected.
It took exactly 2 months and a week for tiered lists to pop up online, and that was it. You played THIS army against that one and won. No if's, but's or no's. If you were smart, you'd concede when you realized you were out-meta'd or, if neither of your armies had an advantage, you'd do the "Hammer and Anvil" that every army now could do because that was the only tactic that had some chance of winning, since your enemy would also do "Hammer and Anvil". Do something else? You lose. Ask any WH:F veteran. "Hammer and Anvil" pretty much killed the game where I lived in a couple of months. At least 200 guys with armies at home, none felt playing the game unless they agreed to use a "fuck-around party-mode army" because the core "competitive" game became stale, boring, uninteresting.
Also guess why the mellee community shrunk to half from January to today? Hint: read the last sentence before this spoiler.
804c20 No.15853051
>>15853022
Dubsman got it right.
23a816 No.15853097
>>15853022
Are you really so bad at the game you need it to give you a handout when you are at a disadvantage? If you were good you'd be able to turn the tables on your own :^)
Funny how so many games have dedicated communities that lasted years without randomness being a deciding factor.
>inb4 it's just because Melee fags are smelly autists!
>guess why the mellee community shrunk to half from January to today?
[citation needed]
492f38 No.15853138
>>15851088
All fighting games are inherently party games.
9d1f80 No.15853290
See, I don't understand why a lot of people from /v/ claim to have superior taste in videogames, and wish for games to have a higher skill ceiling. but when people try to make a game that originally was a normalfag game and turn it into one that genuinely requires a modicum of skill to compete at, they're shat on.
/v/ isn't one person, but it strikes me as odd that a majority of this thread is anti-competitive and pro-normalfag
9846bd No.15853357
>>15853290
Most games have requirements of skill that are removed to attract normalfags.
This has elements of randomness that are removed to attract tourneyfags.
It's less about "hardcore" versus "casual", and more about taking a game and trying to turn it into something it isn't.
7ea30a No.15853362
>>15853357
>Acting as if they're using mods and not settings built into the game
>Acting like Nintendo didn't explicitly support this by adding for glory in the previous game
eed532 No.15853363
Why even buy a switch? The new Animal Crossing?
503720 No.15853371
There is a setting called preferred rules. The preferred rules are just that. The rues you prefer. 7 times out of 10 you will get the settings you want. Some times you get free for all, items, stage hazards.
I play 1v1, final destination, with smashballs on. It's fun.
680905 No.15853377
>>15850019
>Trusting people to make a game and not ruin it
>Trusting normalfags to not make shitty fancommunities after finding out about the manga after the game comes out
23a816 No.15853403
>>15853357
How many meaningful mechanics have been removed from the game for the sake of tourneyfags? If you say tripping i'll know you are baiting.
492f38 No.15853405
>>15853362
And now in this game, customizing rulesets is made much more apparent by having it be the first thing you do before you get to select the stage and characters.
e4e9ed No.15853407
>>15853290
Well as someone pointed out, /v/ and normalfag are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I'd say /v/ is mostly normalfag, they're just introverted normalfags.
They use forums, imageboards and irc chats d i s c o r d mostly, sadly, as their outlets as opposed to conventional social media. They just pretend that jacking off to anime puts them on a higher plane than the mouth breathers who still watch marvel movies. Not a good example as they probably watch capeshit themselves, but you get the idea.
>>15853371
>1v1, final destination, smash balls
My nigger
9846bd No.15853412
>>15853403
Removed in this case by players, not by devs, that's the fortunate thing.
But items, fun stage layouts and as I'm fully expecting for "professional" tournaments, half of the roster.
23a816 No.15853421
>>15853412
So because tourneyfags like playing without items and stage hazards that somehow means you can't use them when playing with your friends?
680905 No.15853429
Smash series was designed for more than 2 people to play at the same time, like 4 player FFA and team battles.
This design aspect makes it a lot more like Mario Party and Kart games; the items and item drops are designed to benefit the person in last like in kart games, and Mario Party, just like Smash, is best with 4 humans, not 2.
eed532 No.15853437
>>15853403
>What is 2+2 and don't say 4 or I'll know you're baiting
9846bd No.15853474
>>15853421
Never said that. Anon's point was "why are people okay with these games having casual elements but will be upset with other games being casualized".
My response is simple: something like Deus Ex was dumbed down to shit with Invisible War. It presented expectations and then shat on them.
Smash was always a fairly casual game, on the other hand. That's it's focus. No one is defending casualization, it's why most people shit on Brawl. Instead, people are saying that it's okay for this game to be casual because that's what it is - that's what it is out of the box, and that's how the majority of people will play it.
Unlike with something like Deus Ex Invisible War, or other console shooters, it's not the developers trying to change the focus of the game, but a certain niche portion of the playerbase. It's down to preference and choice, of course, but it's retarded to come in and accuse people who enjoy playing with items of casualizing the game, just as it would be retarded for tourneyfags to be pissed because their preferred, niche, settings are not the default.
eed532 No.15853498
>>15853429
>Smash series was designed for more than 2 people to play at the same time
I guess that's why in smash64 and melee adventure mode, the challenges, and pretty much everything else is either 1v1, 1v3 or 1v30 weak enemies. With 2v2 being rare and 1v1v1v1 being non-existent.
d84d9a No.15853514
>>15850647
Doesn't need to be. If it's competitive and fun, it will have people actively getting better at it.
>>15853357
>Tourneyfags
This term never even made sense it only comes up in Smash threads despite applying to many games. Supposedly, the whole term came about because some faggot was upset that an autistic faggot was ruining their fun by claiming that their way of fun is the only fun. No items, Fox only, FD only. It's not even that this faggot was good, he just forced his ruleset on others. So people stopped playing with him. It should have ended there.
Instead you now have every casual demanding anyone who actually learns how to play well to fuck off because they ruin the game for them. They can't swallow idea that they may have to actually get better to beat someone and hope items can save them. But once they realize items heavily benefit the better player (due to being on stage longer and constantly knocking everyone away) they just say fuck it and actively support the casualization of the games just to spite them. Even when no one liked tripping, they will support it just to spite good players. It's not even like good players want the skill floor to be raised, just for the skill ceiling to be raised. This in no way affects casuals but they're hell bent on thinking the way good players play means they have to play better too. And that makes them uncomfortable.
a45050 No.15853518
>>15846455
Name one "event" that a skilled player cannot nullfiy by evading or blocking
680905 No.15853524
>>15853498
>Adding a single player mode for people in a game that did not have online so people without friends could still enjoy the game
It's just like how they added CPUs for Mario Party games so even friendless losers could enjoy it and escape from their lonely reality.
eed532 No.15853532
>>15853524
Yeah yeah yeah. I'll also pretend those gamemodes weren't required to unlock characters and that it wasn't a way to showcase how the game worked, because it completely blows a hole in your retarded theory that you pulled out of your ass.
66def1 No.15853570
d84d9a No.15853629
>>15853570
You haven't posted it yet.
1d63ed No.15853649
>>15853097
>If you need items, you're le bad :^)
It's not even about the skill of the player.
I got a group of friends that is pretty much equally skilled. Some of us play slightly better with their "mains" but otherwise, we each can put a decent fight to the point it'd be hard to say which one of us is the best or the worst.
Most of the time, I'm playing 1vs1 against one of them, and we're pretty evenly matched, but there's always one match, where my oponent gets 5-6 hits in before I do anything, mostly because of my bad timing, sometimes excelent mindgames from his part.
But rather than having the match being decided right there and then, I might get a random item near me. Say, a bomb, or a sword. And I'm 145% now, but he's 65%. If I get a sword, two hits and a smash and he's down a stock. Sure, the match is now 4-5, and I'm nearly gone, but suddendly, something that was already decided as a victory for him became unpredictable and he has to redouble his efforts.
Same thing on the other side. One clock + baseball bat combo dropped on a guy I was pummeling after sneaking in 3 grabs that he didn't expected. Time slows down, he stuns me and BAM, goes the bat. I was at 50% and he was close to 200%, mainly cause I was fucking around. Well, when that happens, time to stop fucking around and get serious, I can't sit on my laurels and expect victory to fall on me.
The main Idea I'm trying to tell you, is that a match is interesting if it's undecided to the last minute. Where it's clutch as fuck, and you can't be sure you'll win until that last stock goes away.
Last (and only) time I went to a tourney, I saw a fat bastard in his 20's playing against a kid that didn't know what sort of autismal tourney he got himself into. He was down to 2 stock in little over a minute, and then the fat faggot spent over 10 minutes trolling him. Let him take a stock to give him a sense of hope and crushed it in no time flat. In total, it was a 15 minute match that was boring as fuck to watch, painful for the kid and the only sick fuck that derided some joy was the hulking mass of flesh squashing that chair. Imagine nearly 50 spectators, bored out of their mind for 15 minutes, and then the guy is surprised to find that out.
On the other hand, my final match (I finished 24th or close to it) took 20 minutes were we traded stock for stock because I was enough of a match to him, even though he was the better player that day. I played with items afterwards, both him and with the kid, and they were both good enough to pose a serious challenge even with items "helping" me.
Wanna guess what happened when I asked Lardy McLard if he wanted to play a "casual match"?
23a816 No.15853700
>>15853474
So in the end it's just a difference in perspectives.
9d1f80 No.15853706
>>15853518
I'll bite.
An item based off of loz, the bellows or whatever it's called, is an item that proojects a windbox cone in front of the player. There is no way to avoid this windbox by traditional means as it projects as high as most character's shorthop, meaning you need to fulljump if you want to avoid it. This essentially forces you out of position and can cause you to call off the ledge and put the opponent at a definite advantage
The event also does not exist in a void, if you have an assist trophy, the other player is now forced to negotiate two sources of pressure and will have to give up any advantageous positions the player my have in order to manage both pressure sources.
680905 No.15853738
>>15853518
They can't evade their body odor, and they choose not to block it.
1d63ed No.15853774
>>15853738
Kek
From my experience, I didn't seem many of them that actually smelled bad. But the few one's that did, smelled like a rotting corpse.
>>15853706
You just described something really fucking interesting that requires high-level decision making and skill to juggle around. Kinda like that super-armour/quad-damage in quake (if someone has the pics, please post).
Why would the game be better WITHOUT something awesome like that?
23a816 No.15853785
>>15853649
>call others bad for not playing with items
>gets mad when called bad for needing items to make a comeback
You like playing with items on with your buds? Great for you, i'm sure it's lots of fun.
I'm aware items allow for some fun shit but in the end they will always get in the way of players that just want to test each others abilities. Believe it or not some people derive enjoyment out of besting opponents solely with skill, what's so hard to believe about that?
To begin with, tournaments with items don't exist simply because the people that actually care enough to show up for a tournament don't want have all their effort wasted because their opponent got lucky and a broken item dropped right next to them.
Your argument boils down to the fact that you want an equalizer because you can't handle someone getting steamrolled for their mistakes.
By all means, keep posting anecdotal evidence. A couple months ago is played against a fat dude that wanted items and the smash ball on, he threw a bitch fit because i gimped him with the Gust Bellows.
680905 No.15853814
>>15853774
Negative memories and associations get remembered quite strongly, a reminder to avoid such things since you subconsciously try to protect yourself from potentially harmful events from happening again, foul smells being one of them since it is associated with rot and disease. It makes sense that's what people remember.
I was only at one event like that, a local con that also had a game section for a more informal tournament, but overall it was not fun overall, and the con-goers as a whole were not people worth being around.
1d63ed No.15853823
>>15853785
>call others bad for not playing with items
Can you find me a quote where I said that?
>gets mad
>implying
Nigga, I can get on my Switch, go online and play dozens of matches without a vein popping off because SOMEONE enabled items or likes other maps.
I think you're throwing that accusation to the wrong guy.
>players that just want to test each others abilities
Let me guess:
>I never bounced a wheel-crate back and and forth
>I never used a launch star to throw a guy into a mine
>I never reflected a 150% Rage launcher with Fox And forgot he had a Reflector too FUCK
>I never run around with the healing sprout while 3 guys throw knives, swords and all sorts of cutlery at me so I'll drop it
>I never caught the third part of Kirby's ship as it fell into the abyss and knocked someone out with it
Yeah, I get that you're testing each other's skills. You're testing your skill with your chacters and nothing else, ignoring that there's a fuck ton more skill involved with the correct collection, applying and management of items.
But hey pal, you keep doing you, we both can find players that like the same shit we do.
>>15853814
>con-goers as a whole were not people worth being around.
I've been pretty disapointed over all for a few years now. Besides one really chill Street Fighter tournament, everything was utter cancer. I get wanting to win, it's a tournament, everyone is there to try to win. But some guys go in there conviced they're going to win already, talk mad shit for a couple of hours to however can hear them, and then get mad as fuck when they lose.
It's really disapointing to see two really great players (miles above my level) on a very tight match that the audience was losing their heads over then get into a fight because the winner tried to shake hands with the loser.
Autism is one heck of drug, I'll tell you that.
e74774 No.15853879
>>15853514
You don't get everyone's contempt for your kind so I'll explain.
Nobody could give a flying fuck about what your house rules are if you acknowledged them for what they are: house rules. Instead, you and a legion of bleating retards come in on your high horse and claim that your house rules are the SUPERIOR way to play the game, that all your losses under normal rules are due to "bad luck" and "people not playing the way the game was meant to be played". Always blaming somebody or something else for your losses instead of fucking reflecting and thinking how to get better. That makes you worse than the average casual who just plain doesn't want to get good at games, that makes you the ultimate
SHITTER
that always plagues gaming communities. The exact same kind of kid that bitches about the AWP ever since CS 1.3, the same kind of retard that cries about getting rushed in C&C because "you're meant to build up a base first", the same kind of faggot that takes the lowest tier char in any fighting game and constantly bitches to the devs about "balance" because his ass gets creamed by higher tier characters on a daily basis. Absolute dregs of any gaming community., and you still have the gall to accuse anyone else of casualization. It's no wonder the devs like to take a steaming shit on your """community""" whenever they get the chance.
23a816 No.15853892
>>15853823
>Can you find me a quote where I said that?
>>15853022
>I can see why'd not like random items. But you sound really bad at the game
Bottom line, items would tip the meta in the favor of faster characters even more than it already is. If you think the Melee meta is stale, imagine if they played with items on. You wouldn't even see Falco anymore let alone Ganon, Yoshi or Samus.
Consider the fact that mid-level play has a completely different "meta", that's a phenomenon present in every multiplayer game. Smash manifests that in the way heavy characters are extremely powerful in low to mid level play but get obliterated in a tournament setting.
Point being, you and your friends may have all the fun in the world playing with items but don't try to pretend like your way is the definitive way simply because you don't change a default setting.
1d63ed No.15853925
>>15853892
> tip the meta in the favor of faster characters
I don't get this argument. Heavier, slower characters already have several advantages, from more damage to being harder to launch.
You then even have characters that are not especially fast nor especially hard, but make up in other things like that Bravery hidden stat that makes the energy sword smash attack longer.
Faster characters are at a disadvantage as soon as someone corners them or gets near them, a couple good hits or a grab pretty much doom you to being launched with 60%, while Bowser won't take off until he's up in the 100%.
23a816 No.15853939
>>15853925
Heavier characters are always combo fodder and lack the mobility options that allow for easier stage control. More recent Smash games got rid of Melee-like combos all together in favor of boring kill confirms but you still don't see heavier characters in high level play all that often.
1d63ed No.15853957
>>15853892
Oh, right, I forgot something:
> you and your friends may have all the fun in the world playing with items but don't try to pretend like your way is the definitive way
It is not the definitive way. It's the standard way. You know why it's standard? Because "no items, final destination" is played by a very small subset of the player base.
You're the one pretending you way is "teh bestest way ev4r!" and Nintendo should clearly cater to it because 5% of the player base enjoy it, screw the other 95%.
Well guess what, they did. Every map as an "Omega" version that is the same 3 boring plataforms over a large stage (that enlarges to 150% size when playing with more players) and you can set your own rule-format before playing.
I said you're bad at the game because you don't practice nor use items to their full extent. You never will. You'll fuck around with them for fun, but never pull off amazing shit with them, like juggling 3 diferent swords that you keep throwing at someone and catching them mid-air. It's a very chaotic but skill intensive game to play with items, and you're denying yourself a whole new world to "fit in" with a group of people too casual for actual fighting games but try to make up for it by ignoring fun content and pretending that's a more "hardcore" experience.
By any chance, have you tried Darkest Dungeon? I think you'd like that game.
23a816 No.15854017
>>15853957
In which part of my posts did i say my way was the definitive way and that Nintendo should only cater to people like me? I don't want them to remove items from the game i just want Nintendo to improve the online mode so that people can easily find others that like the play the same way. Also, stop pulling numbers out of your ass.
As someone that played Peach extensively i can use items just fine. As a matter of fact, characters that have items as part of their moveset (Link, Diddy Kong, ROB, etc…) are way more fun in games like PM and Melee because the movement options in those games allow for more fluid and intuitive item acquisition.
Diddy Kong in particular is an absolute blast to play as in PM because he's got his banana as well as his peanut, you should try it. Items in PM and Melee are a lot more fun simply because of the presence of wavedashing.
680905 No.15854019
>>15853957
All this talk about items, but what about adding 2 more opponents? You have to manage attempting to win without drawing enough aggression from the rest for them to decide to knock you out early, negotiate the stage to avoid being caught between two playing opportunistically to double-team you, deal with the items spawning throwing a wrench into it all, along with any stage hazards that might exist [Because playing on stages that are just a couple of platforms or none at all is extremely boring]. I would think being able to deal with this chaotic landscape and having fun while you're at it is the biggest challenge for these people.
23a816 No.15854024
>>15854019
You do know doubles exist right?
680905 No.15854046
>>15854024
With boring stage selection and no items.
680905 No.15854049
>>15854024
>>15854046
Also, doubles is not FFA either.
d84d9a No.15854052
>>15853879
I don't even know why you linked me to such a massive strawman on that emotionally filled rant. I am nothing like that.
4e38d2 No.15854060
>>15853518
Capsule/box spawns in front of your nair in progress and explodes in your face.
Your opponent getting a starman. While its perfectly possible to avoid taking a hit, you absolutely do lose any sort of advantage, pressure and stage control you may have had prior, completely arbitrarily. Stark shifts in advantage/disadvantage and risk/reward that aren't the results of players making mistakes are why comp players with money on the line have unanimously agreed that items are dumb idea for their events.
>>15853774
The thing to note about Quad Damage, and any other pick up in quake, is that they spawn in a certain spot every time and are on a definitive timer. It is very specifically not random, and its why map control is so important in quake. If you pick something up, you know exactly when it should be back. Plus, the quad damage doesn't really do anything to assist you in getting hits, it just amplifies the ones you are getting, meaning the other guy can still reasonably juke you, kill you, and since you drop quad damage on death, you now have to deal with the other guy having the quad. It's a high risk, high reward thing
Stuff like bellows on the other hand is incredibly low risk, high reward, with basically no counterplay, exempting a few rare character specific examples, assuming the other guy doesn't literally just stop moving upon picking it up (the windbox is massive as fuck, powerful as fuck, and doesn't limit your movement much, so while you can fullhop over the windbox, they can just react to your jump and you are still fucked regardless). Just passing a guy a free 1 stock advantage just because he happened to get lucky with a drop neither player had any reasonable way of predicting is something that, again, no one with money on the line would be willing to abide by if they didn't have to, so they don't.
>>15853925
Mobility is the name of the game in Smash, and all the damage and knockback power in the world won't help you if you can't get a hit in edgewise. With items on, this only becomes worse for slow ass characters because the already good fast characters are simply going to get to the items first in most situations, which leads to things snowballing HARD for the guy who still has control of the stage, and thus access to anything that randomly spawns there.
Also
>corners
1ea271 No.15854928
Good thing battlefield is a better nuetral stage. Only have had 3 FFA matches out of the 50 1v1s on quickplay.
a49d65 No.15854988
this guy knows >>15850028
thoses guy do not >>15849979 >>15850101
and should be banned for it
a49d65 No.15855270
>>15849213
> weirdo fucks?
hey ! don't insult your god
a1b007 No.15855285
>>15854928
How, I had 3 ffas and 0 1v1s
a49d65 No.15855830
>>15846417
>ahah filthy casual who play chess without dice
fucking killyourself for being against removing as much "luck" and randomness i did not even say lootbox :^) as possible in a fighting game.
9846bd No.15855870
>>15855830
>chess without dice
More like chess without rooks and bishops.
865e4a No.15857809
>>15853957
>Well guess what, they did. Every map as an "Omega" version that is the same 3 boring plataforms over a large stage
whats ridiculous to me is how in smash bros ultimate the omega stages have been normalized into floating islands whereas before some of them had walls holding up the arena that characters who could wall jump could make use of.
i understand that its for the sake of tourenyfags but even they will occasionally play on some of the more tame stages that arent final destination, so i doubt that tiny bit of variety was causing them discomfort in smash 4. but maybe im wrong, i dont watch them that often but i cant actually recall a time ive seen a match on a "pillar" stage.
they added battlefield variants too in addition to final destinations, but those are all identical layouts as well.
youre essentially only choosing a setting and music with that feature. i think its a bit of a shame.
theres also an option to turn off stage hazards in ultimate, but sadly even things as innocuous as predictable moving platforms count as hazards. i still appreciate this feature, though i wish you could just select it upon stage select instead of needing to select it as a game option.
so yes, theres a lot to cater to that crowd. which just kind of begs the question as to why they dont simply let them play a for glory mode revised to also incorporate those "hazards off" and battlefield variant stages. maybe they thought they wouldnt have a very big player base because of the paid online thing.
3b8dd0 No.15858706
>There are actual tourneyfags on this board
TAKE A SHOWER AND AFTERWARDS MCFUCKING KILL YOURSELVES
SMASH ALWAYS HAS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE A CASUAL CHILDREN'S PARTY GAME
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/07/masahiro_sakurai_isnt_concerned_about_competitive_aspect_of_super_smash_bros
3b8dd0 No.15858752
>>15858726
take a shower and get a job you worthless faggot.
865e4a No.15858786