f26e94 No.15773722
Can someone explain to me the whole "games are art" narrative being pushed?
b6ed76 No.15773730
Hipsters, San Francisco/ some other hyperliberal urban area, Radical Leftism
f26e94 No.15773737
>>15773730
Sure, but why? Why does that matter?
b6ed76 No.15773751
>>15773737
Probably to shill to other leftists for certain games as they value "art" games. That article is a clear example of it.
$$$
f8dc39 No.15773755
>>15773737
Because art has become a way of passing trash.
Its basically an excuse to make really bad games and to shield it from criticism.
3efabd No.15773760
The games are art narrative is something that was initial pushed to attempt to secure the current existing protections as most creative mediums in America enjoy.
However, as of recently talking maybe last 10 or so year, the Obama era, LITERALLY EVERYONE HAS TO GO TO COLLEGE OR YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO NOT BE HOMELESS EVER GET IN DEBT FOREVER THIS ISN'T A PLAN TO MAKE YOU USEFUL INDEBTED GOONS FOREVER ;)
It's somewhat shifted to this idea that Games, more specifically bad games, should be nulled of criticism by virtue of being a creative medium along the same lines of most of the failures of artschool rejecting the merit and talent executing in the construction of the craft, instead seeking the "Emotional Value" of a piece. Meaning it's worth a billion zillion dollars, don't make fun of me being shit or I'll cry
3efabd No.15773765
Basically, it's like, Dobson, but a game developer.
3efabd No.15773772
Oh and most of the game journos are the garbage that couldn't even make it in professional film criticism
Which might I remind everyone here, includes the likes of "Your Movie Sucks" A Gay furry that lusts after horse cock.
They were rejected from that.
d2ca25 No.15773777
It's basically a racket isn't it? If games become "real" art then they as games critics are now the arbiter of which art is worthy and the power that comes along with it.
94151c No.15773779
We've had this thread a hundred times already, sorry /v/ but games are art.
stay mad.
aaa612 No.15773783
Jews trying to parasitize an industry and undermine social values
🔯
🔯▶
🔯
🔯🔄
🔯
56e4b2 No.15773791
>When Russia was full of (((Hope)))
547410 No.15773806
It's mainly to push agendas;
It's simple really, you have fresh-out-of-college artists or creative types who don't like putting effort in, trying to validate their shitty little hobby; These people also tend to be huge leftists and degenerate faggots who really can't escape their vices. These same fags are encouraged and funded to push their shit because their destructive ideas are part and parcel to ((( their ))) goals for western society as a whole.
It's quite literally a 2 bird one stone situation; you got the "MOMMY MOMMY, LOOK, GAME FOR GROWN-UPS" faggots being manipulated and encouraged by "legitimate" activists
547410 No.15773827
>>15773772
>Gay atheist furry who may or may not have fellated the Angry atheist
>He has admitted, unironically that there is nothing wrong with sucking dog dick, because dogs can consent.
That boy is fuckin' deranged, people have called him out on it too, but he's only responded with typical fedora-tipping talking points and a stirner-like "Morality is a spook" mentality. I don't understand how people still watch or follow idiots like that, there are folks who legitimately argue in favor for "TheAngryAtheist" since banana gate because he "Owned up to it" Admitting you've stuck a banana up your ass, does not change the fact that you've shoved a banana up your ass.
76d5ed No.15773828
I think it's to validate non-games like Dear Ester.
In other mediums art is often used as a catch-all to nonsensical bullshit.
c2611f No.15773889
>>15773737
Because then game journalists get to be bigshots with lots of money and prestige, and gatekeep even harder than they do now
fce91f No.15773921
Years ago, professional film critic Roger Ebert writes a piece where he says video games can never be art in the way movies are. Probably bias on his part, but if I’d been in his shoes and been forced to sit through and review hundreds of mediocre to atrocious video game movies in the course of my career, I’d have a similarly dim view.
Video game journalists begin screeching autistically and begin a crusade to prove that games are art, and have been on the search for the mythological “Citizen Kane of video games” which every game from Bioshock:Infinite to Undertale have been heralded as.
fce91f No.15773925
>>15773921
Mythical, not mythological. My bad.
bba57f No.15773985
>>15773737
Failure hipsters in San Francisco have no real skills or talent so they took up a job writing about video games. They try to push the narrative because it is the only way to validate their own pathetic lives.
Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I do honestly believe that games are art. As a medium, games can convey things that artwork, novels, film, and whatever else cannot purely by virtue of being interactive. The problem comes in when hipster assholes get involved, because they don't know a damn thing about real art. They instead try to apply the standards of postmodernist crap rather than judging by the criteria relative to the specific medium. To them, a glove dropped on the ground is art. A jar of piss is art. A shitty, 20 minute long pixel art abortion of a game about dykes is art. If they agree with it, they argue that it is art and there are no objective standards involved in their thought process.
>>15773889
>gatekeep
Don't validate that retarded term. For one thing, any fandom or community is well within its rights to set and enforce whatever standard for entry it wants. For another, the retarded fucking hipsters you're talking about aren't the ones who get to "gatekeep" and wouldn't have any influence at all if the "gate" had been properly "kept".
b6ed76 No.15774022
>>15773985
Gatekeeping is a cancerous buzzword, same with elitism when used to refer to online communities
99% of the time its new, casual and bandwagon faggots angry that they haven't been accepted by the more hardcore older community at large and are mocked by them
I've seen it happen with the Fire Emblem communities for the post-awakening and new audience, and for the SMT community post-Persona 3 and it always plays out the same. They're always cancerous retards
0278b1 No.15774069
b6d0a9 No.15774072
>>15773755
It's also an excuse to create propaganda and pushing the leftist narrative.
The term "art" is just used so they can avoid any kind of legit criticism.
The truth is these "progressive" games they develop and give biased reviews to are not really art or at the very least, not good art. Good art is supposed to be subjective. When a particular piece of art has a message attached to it it's not supposed to be overt. Subtlety is what makes good art. It's supposed to be subtle in the idea it is trying to convey. The messages of the art leftists push is bluntly overt and out right ham-fisted which ends up turning it into propaganda.
Usually bad art and propaganda are difficult to tell apart from one another. They both have overt messages, lack subtlety and leave no room for the viewer's interpretation. In good art, there is room for interpretation. There is no such room for interpretation in the games SJWs champion because it's more about the message than the actual art that was used to convey it.
ceed4d No.15774080
cacd62 No.15774082
>>15773722
TO USE ART AS MONEY LAUNDERING
170e6f No.15774091
Games journalists are insecure and want to be taken seriously so they assert that political propaganda dressed as toys are art.
7a89f8 No.15774097
Once upon a time, game journos wanted to be seen as valid cultural critics instead of glorified shills and PR agents. That's very much where the "games as art" and politicization of game criticism came from.
Add the rise of clickbait to and you have a perfect storm of shit.
170e6f No.15774111
>>15774072
>videogames don't make children violent
>videogames do make children rapists
829f27 No.15774143
>graduate college for journalism
>apply for huffingtin post or newyorkjew or whatever liberals love
>cant get job because havent sucked enough scholomo schlong
>finally get a job as a game journalist to get foot in the door
>stay as game journalist for 20 years
>hate video games, so try to make video games into the pretentious social fodder I adore to reap social benefits and fellatio points
>get other hack friends into positions of influence, effectively taking over the entirety of video gay journalism
>use marxist-inspired, zeitgeist-drunk regressives to continue tightening strangehold
89c3f1 No.15774144
If games get classified as art, there's government $$$ to be had.
b6d0a9 No.15774151
>>15774144
If they were, hopefully it would stop all the censorship.
76d5ed No.15774154
>>15774143
> huffingtin post
>not huffing tin paint
ceed4d No.15774159
>>15774144
>>15774151
you two have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
ff914a No.15774164
Entertainment has to be entertaining. Others can judge it by how entertaining it is. So something artsy like Gone Home is then viewed as an inferior to a fun game like Super Mario Odyssey. Receiving lukewarm/bad reception among gamers for being unentertaining, and selling poorly as a result. And then the game will be viewed as shitty for not being fun.
Art doesn't have to be entertaining. Art literally has no purpose it "suppose" to strive for, and can't be judged on any particular metric whatsoever. You can't even say "art Must…" or "art Must't…" do so and so, because pretentious twats will then argue that art can be whatever it wants. This is why "artists" can take a fresh dump on a blank canvas and call it "art". Or depression quest, as the video game equivalent may be. Therefore if "games are art" and "games don't have to be fun", reviewers can say that an unfun artsy games like Gone Home is better than Super Mario Odyssey and bump up its score to an undeserved 10 out of 10.
94151c No.15774220
>>15773864
>As all impotent leftists always lose.
>being this fair in denial
5f26be No.15774223
>>15773730
Art has become a code for "products without any quality standards", so of course hipster devs want games to be considered art.
3fc513 No.15774255
Art (modern art at least, the most jewish form of art) does not have standards.
If art doesn't have standards, and games are art, then games don't have to have standards.
This means the talentless fucks that are the indie clique and the AAA studios can produce all the dreck they want without criticism because "it's art" and "you just don't get it" and "technical ineptitude and functions that literally don't work as intended in a piece of software is part of the art"
It's like selling the "it's not a bug it's a feature" line but in this case the bug is splattered on the windscreen like a Jackson Pollock painting and they want you to pay top-fucking dollar for it and suck their trans feminine dick about how great and intelligent they are for producing such a masterpiece of art.
d81063 No.15774257
>>15774223
Nail on the fucking head right here.
I've taken a couple college level art courses for shits and giggles, the entire fucking industry is bullshit. Most classes barely teach the fundamentals anymore like basic techniques, composition, etc. Instead they try to bullshit their way through on feelings and abstract measures if a project doesn't boil down to drawing something from life. Those sorts of projects were uncommon in the class I took too, after the first one at least but even in that there was never much actual teaching going on. People who could barely even hold a pencil or brush got through with as good of grades, if not better, than students who put in actual creative work.
The worst though were the copy cats. I'm willing to bet a lot of game industry artists fell into that category
2b76a2 No.15774287
What's wrong with games being art?
f1bb2c No.15774298
52e98d No.15774309
It reminds me of those movie critics who really want to be taken seriously because they liked garbage like Moonlight or Blue is the Warmest color or some shit, that type of faggot who really wants to jump on the "so bad it's good" wagon so much they start watching shit "ironically"(if you go to another state just to watch some Neil Breen movie you're no longer doing it "ironically" you faggot).
They just want to look cool and they're afraid the faggots of similar calibre won't think they're cool if they're writing or invested(or appearing invested) in a hobby solely because of haram concepts like the hobby being enjoyable or entertaining to them, no they have to project bullshit about how it's art, but this very specific trash-heap is art because it's not simple entertainment bro, it's high class art. Entertainment and having fun is for bad meanies.
49c06e No.15774311
some gamers and maybe mostly the shitty journos have a chip on their shoulder because ebert shit on them. Truth is games are art simply because pretty much anything can be classified as art, you can think andy warhol for that shit
20eccd No.15774351
>>15774287
Nothing wrong with saying games are art, but then we have to get into the semantics of what makes a game "artful".
860b5f No.15774353
>>15773722
Leftist ruined another entertainment medium and to cover up the fact they're now trying to legitimize the drivel they're shitting out as art.
22e11f No.15774371
>>15773722
Liberals r dum and think that just calling something art improves its quality. They prefer others to perceive their work to be better than it is than to work harder.
413e97 No.15774438
GamerGate uncovered the truth as to why gaming is being subverted and turned more into interactive movies than games you have to become good at to succeed. This was before it became a parody of itself of course.
I seem to remember reading that the brain takes in a shockingly larger amount of information when playing a video game than reading, TV, film, radio etc. If that is true, then it is no surprise they wanted to politicize games the way they did and to make it a medium for everyone. The sheer brainwashing and propaganda potential is huge, more so with the rise of VR. So they had to clean up gaming's image with making it inclusive and trying to become more "mature" so it can be taken seriously as a medium and art form.
528fe1 No.15774449
>>15773722
There's many angles being pushed here, all for different reasons, so you have to see who's saying this and understand their claim in context.
>Art as genuine art
There's people that genuinely think videogames are art, both making and playing them, but by this they equate them with greek scultpures and classic music.
It's something that takes tremendous amount of effort and talent to make and that you do for the sake of exceling in that craft, always trying to improve on your predecessors.
>Art as art and not a product
There's some that would like to see videogames created as an art form and not a product. The idea of yearly releases, DLC monetization, microtransactions, etc is understandable to keep a company well funded but we've clearly passed the point a long time ago where it's clearly reducing the quality of what you get to play.
Games made as products have no soul and are not works of love or passion. They have strictly the required to amuse you and make you spend money, instead of being something that tries to instill strong emotions or new ideas in your head.
<Art as a shield from criticism.
Then there's the faggots that completely ruined the concept of art with "modern art" and have no standards whatsoever. Art to them is a synonym with "subjective value" which means that it doesn't matter if you don't like it, they do. And if you want brownie points with them, you gotta like it as well.
Seems dumb but consider that for a group to keep cohesion, they have to agree on something and there's little things more divise than art. However, with modern art, you can have a bunch of hipsters all saying how much they love each other's work even though they don't understand or like it at all, all they know is that it has subjective value to it's creator and that's enough.
<Art as "take me seriously!"
Then there's game journalists primarly and anyone involved with the industry that really care about everyone else's opinions when they say that "videogames are for kids" or "videogames are not as important as Hollywood movies".
Instead of ignoring these bullshit claims and excelling in their industry, they will instead insist that videogames are mature stuff and clearly for adults. But because they still have a childish mentality and still agree with the whole "videogames are for kids" that they keep trying to deny, everytime a videogame features actual mature plot points or simply includes adult pandering, they'll complain about it.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of being childish and the desire to be a grown-up." CS Lewis
This is something this group has yet to grasp.
TL;DR
Some want videogames to be Art in the sense that they are not products to be made as cheaply as possible and sold en masse, that they have to be works of love and passion to rouse strong emotions and ideas in the target audience.
Meanwhile, faggots want videogames to be "Nouveau Art" in the sense that you can't criticize that which is subjective to them and nobody is allowed to mock their interest in childish things because it's actually mature stuff, but don't you dare bring up mature stuff into videogames.
627ccb No.15774463
>Video games are not art!
Video games are art retard. That doesn't mean they are good art. The design of a fucking washing machine is art. The latest regurgitated capeshit movie is art. That doesn't mean they are good, it just means they're art. That's all.
Gaming "Journos" obsessed with games being art are fucking cancer and deserve to be gassed.
781e44 No.15774477
>>15773722
Design ≠ Art you stupid fucking journos
6213be No.15774487
What the fuck is "art"?
No one can agree on what "art" is but people still argue over if something is or isn't art, it's a pointless argument with no answer.
Also, who cares? Even if there was a concrete definition of "art" it can still be a shit game that no one wants to play.
35265a No.15774495
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15773722
there's a great lecture on the subject from a few years back if you really wanna go into detail on the subject. Put simply, video games can contain art, it can be visually beautiful, it can have great writing, great cinematography. But gameplay mechanics themselves have cannot become anything more then a craft, they lack the ability to be considered art for various reasons
65925d No.15774497
can someone explain to me that topic weve had 6 thousand times in the last 5 years? im new thanks
8605f5 No.15774519
>>15773722
Video games are not art, but you need art to create a video game. Like concept art for characters and the setting. Music is an artform aswell. Still, video games are not art and the most important part, the gameplay, isn't art either. It should be practical, challenging and fun.
>Can someone explain to me the whole "games are art" narrative being pushed?
It's just journos and pixelshit indie devs without talent trying to validate the garbage they produce. You'll never see them praising artistically good games only movietier walking simulators, pixelshit, SocJus filled trash and the like. There are lots of artistically stunning and unique games. RDR2 isn't one of them.
7a89f8 No.15774525
>>15774257
That's because "art" is about narratives and personalities instead. Fun little fact: A friend of mine was rejected from art school because he wouldn't have been able to "build up his brand as an artist", no joke!
Pile up a trash heap or squirt some paint from your ass and you'll be an artist as long as you can weave a tale with pomo buzzwords about heteropatriachal capitalist oppression and futile consumerism and you're good.
5f26be No.15774531
>>15774525
Is your friend called Adolf by any chance?
65925d No.15774534
>>15774531
do you browse reddit by any chance?
edd600 No.15774537
>>15774525
>art school
He's much better off trying to get into an atelier or finding local artists to teach him.
8605f5 No.15774540
>>15774487
>The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power
Liberal "arts", alternative "art" are no true art, because there is not skill, beauty or emotion involved.
062102 No.15774547
>>15774534
Who pissed in your cereals anon?
8b7543 No.15774548
Friendly reminder that games themselves are not art but do contain art. The game mechanics are just parts of a game. The models, plot voiceacting, music and how those parts interact with the mechanics are art.
However it's in the interest of video games to be discredited by mainstream media.
67ddc4 No.15774554
>>15774540
That's not entirely fair
I'm sure there's plenty of emotion involved. They certainly like pitching a fit over nothing.
This piece, entitled Ketchup on Canvas, sold for $50 million
65925d No.15774577
>>15774547
its a faggot propaganda thread thats supposed to lead people away from the money laundering truth.
the thread itself is pretentious bullshit
8605f5 No.15774581
>>15774554
>I'm sure there's plenty of emotion involved
Well, I'm not seeing it. And just, because something sells for a high price that doesn't mean it isn't shit. When I think about art I think of pic related. You can see the emotion and that the artist is extremely skilled to the point where you can show this painting to anyone and they immediately know who made it.
The one you posted has no skill, no emotion. It's just a canvas splashed with ketchup.
edd600 No.15774603
>>15774581
>extremely skilled to the point where you can show this painting to anyone and they immediately know who made it.
Careful with that argument, anyone here can recognize shadman.
56e4b2 No.15774604
Games aren't art, but they can be a medium for art.
ceed4d No.15774610
>>15774554
Sometimes I wonder if I'd be able to accurately portray a headache on canvas without any prior artistic talent or even basic drawing knowledge simply from personal experiences as a man phy-phi-pho-phum persyn with chronic migraines.
cd201f No.15774625
>>15773737
>>15773722
There's a few reasons. As some anons pointed out, it's a cheap way to shield from criticism. Another reason is Jack Thompson. After he went after GTA, smarmy journos like those from Rock Paper Shotgun had some modicum of community respect due to shitting on Thompson. They spent that social capital on pushing the art narrative so games could theoretically enjoy that legal protection. They used Tipper Gore's campaign against heavy metal as a model. Of course, no one really cared about games as art. Most journos secured interviews with random film and literary critics, ham-handedly forcing them to play video games and commenting on it. Unsurprisingly, the commentary from a bunch of 50+ year olds was "I don't get it."
cd201f No.15774634
>>15774554
>>15774581
It's a money laundering scheme. Someone needed to move $50 million.
e38b90 No.15774860
Games are art, like it or not. Every total art (cinema, comics, videogames… all forms of art which require the use of several different arts to be palatable) has its own defining "dimension", and in the case of videogames, it is gameplay.
The reason Gone Home is shit art is exactly that its gameplay mechanics suck. It was praised for "muh narrative" (not like Gone Homo had a good narrative, anyway), when videogames are not about narrative at all. Sure, narrative improves the overall experience, but picture this: you pay a ticket to the movies and sit yourself down in one of the seats. The lights go down, and a guy in a chair sits in the middle of an empty room. The man has a stack of papers in his hand, with something printed on them. He starts reading from the script, and it is the best fucking story you have heard, but you can't help but be bored, because it sucks as a movie, and that's what you came to watch here. Its one hour and thorty minutes of the man reading the story, and the movie ends. You would have enjoyed the shit out of the script if it were a book, but it wasn't, and the movie in which it appeared sucked hard. The Gone Homo debacle is a similar situation, except the movie was rated 10/10 by the critics and the story they praised so much is terrible.
However, the real reason the "games are art" meme started was that people feared they would get censored by the government otherwise during the whole Jack Thompson fiasco. Being officially considered an art protects its works from censorship, which wouldn't happen if they weren't considered art. This means you would have probably stopped seeing violent videogames if Jack Thompson had met no opposition, but the "games are art" maneuver managed to stop the likes of him. At least for a while.
It makes me sad to see the "games are art" idea is rejected here because of dumb non-arguments, to justify being contrarian to SJW who use the same argument to deflect criticism. Contrary to popular belief, art can be shit. Being art doesn't make your shit special, it just means it has no immediate specific purpose other than what the author wanted to express or communicate.
56e4b2 No.15774865
>>15774616
America is already kiked as shit. No need to destroy anything.
337339 No.15774891
Vidya is a medium. Like any other medium it can be used to create art. Most vidya is an industrial entertainment product created for the sole purpose to make profit.
No reason to be pretentious about it.
695c65 No.15774900
>>15773722
But games are art. The issue is that leftists push a narrative that art cannot be bad, which is blatantly untrue.
8f4345 No.15774901
>>15774449
I liked your post anon.
44d3df No.15774916
>>15773737
Because you can't criticize art due to "The beauty is in the eyes of the beholder." narrative.
8f4345 No.15774930
>>15774860
>It makes me sad to see the "games are art" idea is rejected here because of dumb non-arguments
Actually, I think most posters here understand that games are indeed art. They just don't bother posting in threads like these since we've had these arguments since forever and it's bothersome to repeat the same arguments over and over again.
65925d No.15774931
>>15774925
no you autistic shit, jews are taking advantage of the fact that its subjective
3fdb1b No.15774946
>>15774287
The problem isn't with game being art. They clearly are. The problem is with games being modern art, and all the bullshit that comes with that.
65925d No.15774957
>>15774950
if you didnt just get off the boat from reddit youd know that you can definitely critique subjective things from an objective point of view.
e2f640 No.15774960
>>15774072
>European Dawn
Never realized that lefties are this terrified of Greece's Golden Dawn. Cannot wait for their live reactions when these lads win the elections.
85652e No.15774963
>>15774519
>but you need art to create a video game
>Like concept art for characters and the setting
Incorrect.
695c65 No.15774972
>>15774449
>that they have to be works of love and passion to rouse strong emotions and ideas in the target audience
Most of history's greatest artworks were made purely for profit, with the "love and passion" being attributed mostly by others who sought to romanticise and idealise it. Emotions are a pretty shit evaluation metric, tbh.
In reality, almost everything is art. When you carve out a pretty doll from a stick, it is art. When you create a machine to mass produce the exact same doll, it stands to reason that it still has to be art since it's still the exact same product. The thing is, while almost anything is art, few things are GOOD art. Due to this, we usually only reffer to good art when we say "art". You wouldn't describe a child's scribbles as art, yet you would describe a portrait made by a person using the exact same tools as art. The thing setting them apart is the quality of the work, not its nature. Most of history's masterpieces were made by men who devoted their lives to the craft, honing their skills to perfection and seeking to improve at every opportunity. They, logically, didn't gush about, pour out their soul and shit themselves with glee every time they took up a paintbrush and made one of the dozens or hundreds of paintings they produced within their lifetime – instead, you'd see great focus and rationality, a massive amount of mindpower spent to evalutate and re-evaluate every stroke, mind full of possible positives and negatives of every action they might make. Art has the tendency to evoke emotion in its consumer, but it is fallacious to think that emotion, rather than cold reason, was used in the making of it.
The issue with today's art isn't "muh emotions and soul", it's that the left pushed the meme that there are no objective evaluation criteria for art. If you have no evaluation criteria, you cannot make a distinction between good art and shit art. During the course of history, various different criteria came and went, sometimes failing and being considered a mistake, sometimes sparking an entirely new genre using different criteria from the other, but at no point (except maybe cavemen) was there the situation that there would be none at all, up until now. You cannot say a painting is shit just because it's just blank canvas with nothing on it, since some tremendous faggot will immediately charge out and scream that it has deep emotional impact on him or some similar bullshit. And you can't really counter him because the official line is "art is subjective", which of course isn't easy to disprove since the public conflates objective and subjective qualities together (which can then cause the subjective ones to make up for the lack of objective ones, which then leads to the perceived subjectivity of the entire field) and because the left isn't seeking an actual dialogue on the matter (as it'd cost all those (((artists))) their job).
edd600 No.15774984
>>15774978
>NPC meme
Use your own words, Anon.
65925d No.15774993
>>15774961
>jews made it so
jews are taking advantage of the fact that it is entirely subjective and they dont believe it is subjective either since they are pushing for further authority.
quit jumping to early conclusions so you can post first and get upvotes and instead follow the path to the end you redditor.
2c1031 No.15774996
b82b37 No.15774997
>>15773722
Governments give grants to art programs. soydevs want free money handouts from the government to smoke weed and be "deep". Forcing 'games are art' narrative is a ticket to easy street.
3301d6 No.15774998
>art
You mean the same trash that produces caricatures of people sucking their own dicks that is touted as the next coming of christ himself? Yeah, fuck "art". This word lost meaning long ago.
695c65 No.15775003
>>15774978
Your definition runs contrary to common sense. If we found today that da Vinci painted Mona Lisa while sleepwalking, and thus wasn't conscious during its creation, would you say Mona Lisa is no longer art?
4f8197 No.15775008
>>15774930
I'm pretty sure I've seen the "are games art?" thread at least once a month for the past 10 years. There's really nothing new to say on the subject.
54ed26 No.15775014
>>15773722
The political left redefined art to undermined traditional artistry. This was done so that the elitist could define what "art" to include people they liked as an artist and exclude their political enemies from profiting from "art" all while selling status to idiots who want to be apart of the It crowd. Now the political left wants to redefine video games as art so they can use the same tactics to turn games into shit. By redefining what "It" is, they can make themselves subjectively (and by eliminating objective evaluation) the gatekeepers of what is or is not "it".
8fc521 No.15775016
>>15774984
>>15774990
>>15774994
This is why I hate the fucking NPC meme, if it gets posted the thread starts getting derailed. When the NPC meme appears the cuckchanners who post it and the retard faggots who keep answering it get stuck in a loop
>ur cuckchan
>no u
>that's what cuckchan would say
>no u x2
JUST STOP WITH THIS RETARDED "DISCUSSION"
695c65 No.15775019
>>15775010
And you might be retarded if you place some dictionary above reason. If the next edition of your precious dictionary said "Communism: the only correct ideology that will bring us to utopia" would you also parrot that opinion?
edd600 No.15775026
>>15775016
You're part of the problem, hypocrite
b82b37 No.15775030
>>15774978
>It's not art if I don't like it
It's incredible that you can quote the dictionary definition and then completely disregard said definition.
54ed26 No.15775031
>>15775016
no point in respoding, cuckchaners are just /intl/ botz that ought to be filtered and reported.
edd600 No.15775036
>>15774990
>if ($TRIGGERED == TRUE)
Fucking CS majors.
3301d6 No.15775043
>>15775036
Poor rat, died in a fag's ass.
11e630 No.15775046
>>15774946
More than that, I find it that the biggest problem is the "games are art" narrative being pushed to constrain games in ways expected of other art forms, rather than games being their own unique form of art.
And art is defined by tradition and skill, which is where the modern art bullshit tries to attack videogames.
695c65 No.15775052
>>15775022
Anon, I already pointed out why the dictonary's definition of art is incorrect by pointing out it evaluates art based on the artist rather than on the actual result. The definition is thus inherently leftist - its criteria for "art" is that you consciously use skill and creative imagination. In other words, a sonic OC is art by this definition, since it took conscious use of drawing skills (even if they're shit) and creative imagination (even if it's shit), to create, but if one were to make a perfect portrait of a person, it would not be art as he is simply copying down said person's face instead of using "creative imagination"
54ed26 No.15775062
>>15774972
your reasoning is somewhat flawed because you are mistaken about your terminology. Art is not the product, but rather the mastery of the human prosses that goes into producting the product. What you mean to say is most anything could be considered a "work of art" or a product of mastery. Even the engineering that goes into the assembly line would be considered human mastery on some level as long as human hands where involved in producing the machinery.
695c65 No.15775077
>>15775062
I suppose I should have used "artwork" instead.
54ed26 No.15775085
>>15775052
>sonic OC is art by this definition, since it took conscious use of drawing skills (even if they're shit) and creative imagination (even if it's shit)
false, because the critiera of art is mastery of said skill, not mearly just the skill in and of itself.
>>15775077
that would have been more appropose.
695c65 No.15775101
>>15775085
>art is mastery of said skill
not by the dictionary's definition. There is no word of "mastery", only of "skill".
14deee No.15775115
People that had their believes shaken by an old ass movie critic still can't let go, despite said movie critic changing his view before he died.
There is also a fact that these people are failures at life so they made video games their identity.
Imagine being a 39 year old glorified corporate dicksucking shill for video games and bing bing wahhoos, you go home for a thanksgiving dinner with your family, your father thinks you're a faggot that failed at being a man, everyone is sharing their life experiences and shit when suddenly your brother's seven year old son asks you whether you're playing fortnite.
Your father is silently staring into his plate, a fog of unease fills the room, you bite the bullet and tell him, "yeah", only for him to start screeching autistically and inviting you to floss with him, you want to unironically kill yourself.
Now imagine if video games became "art", you're walking in nose held high, beaming, even your father is confused, that little shit tries doing it again this year only for you to correct him, proudly proclaiming that you are not a video game journalist, but in fact an art critic of the medium called video games.
This was never about video games and always about "video game journalists".
54ed26 No.15775126
^ or I gues I should have said the persute of mastery because nothing in the material plane is the perfect idealized form. That messure could be seen as somewhat subjective or relative to others attempt at mastery of the idealized form.
>>15775101
what dictornary are you using? Because masterfulness, adeptness and artfulness are synonyms according to merriam-webster. This implies mastery.
edd600 No.15775136
>>15775133
But the first one will jump on you when you get home.
695c65 No.15775138
>>15775126
>what dictornary are you using? Because masterfulness, adeptness and artfulness are synonyms according to merriam-webster. This implies mastery.
You were actually replying to my argument for why the dictionary's definition is incorrect. I was arguing with this post >>15774978
In any case, this seems to have devolved into semantics
20b1b0 No.15775140
>>15774634
This is the primary explanation for "high art" being so expensive.
811ae4 No.15775154
It's a great legal defense for games and the contents therein.
14deee No.15775158
>>15774072
>tfw waited for that sequel for more than a decade
54ed26 No.15775165
>>15775138
I was replaying to you because "Art" as traditionaly defined implies mastery or skillfuness of a craft or trade. The terms "production of aesthetic objects" in above 4a implies the craft of producing beauty. Beauty being one of the three transcendentals.
edd600 No.15775167
ceed4d No.15775168
>>15775152
What's good art and what's high art and what art deserves respect?
dab865 No.15775175
Its a way to reduce criticism of the products they put out instead of being a game it's art so if the game sucks then they can say well it's art so you're a bad guy
54ed26 No.15775177
>>15775173
>edgy
>bender
>>>/reddit/
98a168 No.15775184
Look at modern art, where someone can splatter paint on a canvas, say it represents violence in a household or some pseudo-intellectual bullshit like that, and get paid a disgusting amount of money by people who have convinced themselves that what you're saying isn't a blatant lie.
The "Games are Art" meme is pushed for the same reason: so that indie devs can push a 2hour walking simulator as "art" and sell it at full price without being told their "game" sucks.
9b1f79 No.15775198
>>15775184
>Look at modern art, where someone can splatter paint on a canvas, say it represents violence in a household or some pseudo-intellectual bullshit like that, and get paid a disgusting amount of money by people who have convinced themselves that what you're saying isn't a blatant lie.
I always assume those type of trades are just money laundering.
>hehehe yes i got all of this money by selling some "modern art" nothing fishy about this
98a168 No.15775209
>>15775198
You probably aren't wrong, but there's no way poe's law didn't come into play and people actually began to buy and sell shitty art with fabricated meanings for ridiculous prices earnestly.
54ed26 No.15775222
>>15775198
Its not nessiaray money laundering but its a form of Usary. Where they are selling ice to an eskimo.
>>15775182
>using sage as a downvote
>>>/reddit/
Sage negated Kiddo
dd4ad2 No.15775232
If you haven't picked up on this within the past 15 years, then I question your dedication to this hobby. Either that or you're just a dumb newfag. Neither is preferable.
54ed26 No.15775234
>>15775229
>Sage is in fact functionally a downvote.
but it's not newfag.
sage for off topic
8fc521 No.15775240
>>15775229
>sage is in fact functionally a downvote
Are you retarded?
edd600 No.15775245
>>15775229
>Sage is in fact functionally a downvote.
What did you mean by this?
89813f No.15775248
>>15775036
what do you suggest?
21d687 No.15775249
>>15773722
Author of the article seems like a person for whom reality is foreign.
>Before joining Reason, Suderman worked as a writer and editor at National Review, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, FreedomWorks, Doublethink, and Culture11. His writing has appeared in The New York Times, Slate, The Wall Street Journal, Vox, Politico, The New York Post, Newsweek, The Washington Examiner, and numerous other publications. He lives in Washington, D.C.
So most of what he's saying is probably just imitating other writers; the kind of thoughtless pattern-writing that George Orwell saw consuming political writing in his time.
The author makes several false assumptions about the game:
>here, every character, even the least important digital extra, can be spoken to, and often conversed with at length
Actually a maximum of three lines from Arthur, with generic responses from the NPC.
>There are plenty of shootouts, chases, and heists. But you can usually choose to avoid them
Absolutely false. Shootouts don't end until all the baddies die or run away, chases until you reach their destination, heists until you finish the script. The only way to avoid them is by mission skipping.
>While playing, you must manage virtual campsites, and eat or drink to avoid in-game penalties. These activities can feel like chores, but they also nudge players into a more contemplative style of play, forcing them to slow down and explore their surroundings
You can keep in food and drink without slowing down outside of scripted sequences that would force you to slow down anyway. There's nothing contemplative about opening up a radial menu to top off your multiple hunger meters.
This guy is probably working backward from the conclusion that games are art, and finding poorly thought-out justifications for this based on his shallow experience with the game. He directly compares the game to movies, TV, and books, naturally unaware that games can have value without imitating these other media. Then he mixes in a bunch of "gamers need to grow up" talking points to assure his pants-headed readers that he's on their side, thus preventing them from examining his points critically. A worthless article from a thoughtless writer.
21d687 No.15775253
e7229c No.15775255
>>15774449
>>15774255
>>15774946
>>15775184
>>15775198
This is modern art. It brought us great things like pics in visual art and Debussy in music. What you're thinking of is POSTmodern art.
dd4ad2 No.15775256
54ed26 No.15775258
edd600 No.15775259
>>15775246
>Nobody uses it as offtopic discussion mechanism anymore.
>NOBODY.
Speak for yourself, you turbonigger.
4f9266 No.15775266
>>15774449
>Art as genuine art
>Art as art and not a product
the thing is that 'art' was always a trade, just one that dealt in goods with limited supply for wealthy patrons. all of the works of the old masters were explicitly products. the idea of 'real' art only came about as a means of distinguishing the advent of mass art from that of the aristocracy. technologies like photography becoming cheap and commonplace trivialized the technique that used to be required for academic realism so esotericism became the means of class distinction. this was both good and bad in many different respects. vidya's primary sin is that it is something anyone can enjoy.
21d687 No.15775272
>>15775264
Discussions about the use of sage are offtopic on a video game board.
edd600 No.15775276
>>15775272
Stop proving him right by using sage correctly, Anon.
54ed26 No.15775286
>>15775255
that stuff is crap when you compare it to its contemporaries that predated impressionism. (Also "postmodern" is no different then modern, it just means after the modern era).
8fc521 No.15775288
>>15775246
>sage isn't used as an offtopic mechanism anymore
That's just wrong. Most anons use sage when they want to talk about offtopic.
>anons just sage threads they don't like, effectively downvoting them.
Saging a thread you don't like or a shit non vidya thread as I like to call them, is also a use for the sage, and it's not a downvote. When you use sage to respond to someone you disagree with in a thread that's not created by the person you're responding to you're being a nigger and using sage as a downvote. Even then most people use sage as an offtopic mechanism, so whatever.
>>15775264
Those sages you responded to are being used incorrectly, they're not directed to the thread in general, they're directed at you, and that's the meaning of using sage as a downvote. If sage is used to stop a shit thread from bumping it's alright, but if it's used to sage a single post in a thread that's gay as fuck.
sage for offtopic :^)
06141f No.15775293
>>15775289
>>15775288
Pottery
98a168 No.15775334
>>15775255
>What you're thinking of is POSTmodern art.
Correct. That was a pretty bad fuckup on my end.
bd5a08 No.15775361
>Japanese video games contain music and writing, which are considered an actual art, and then legitimate art pieces in their games
How are they not art?
11e630 No.15775413
>>15775361
Museums contain art. Museums are not inherently art for containing art.
There are good arguments as to why video games are art. Containing art is not one of them.
54ed26 No.15775425
>>15774495
>GDC
>2011
holly this I wasn't expecting this to be actually good but it was actually good.
54ed26 No.15775432
test: typo or word filter
shit
bba57f No.15775444
>>15775248
The "== true" part is completely unnecessary. Also, why the fuck would you store a tiny line of text unlikely to be used elsewhere in its own variable? Also, if you were trying to check if the condition for "triggered" was false, you wouldn't do "== false" either, you'd just do "if (!triggered)".
if (triggered) {
print ("no u");
}
9983f8 No.15775467
<here some art
Also the only ART in video games is Silent Hill 2
8bc986 No.15775482
>>15773921
>Video game journalists begin screeching autistically and begin a crusade to prove that games are art, and have been on the search for the mythological “Citizen Kane of video games” which every game from Bioshock:Infinite to Undertale have been heralded as.
Citizen Kane is revered because it went against the trend of Hollywood aping other mediums like literature and the stage, and instead relied on filmmaking techniques to tell its story. In searching for vidya's "Citizen Kane," these indiefags and journalists are actually just repeating Hollywood's mistake by imitating other artforms for approval instead of letting vidya be vidya.
Is it overrated as shit? Yes.
>>15774495
>But gameplay mechanics themselves have cannot become anything more then a craft, they lack the ability to be considered art for various reasons
Fags like you are the reason the "muh Citizen Kane" fags ignore mechanics and focus on assets + writing, which they usually suck at too. The real vidyapill is that gamedev is about designing systems and aesthetics are as much a part of these systems as the controls and AI. Trying to force a wedge between mechanics and aesthetics only hurts a game's cohesiveness and hurts whatever the game is trying to convey.
337339 No.15775491
>>15775452
>literal npc programming
36f943 No.15775492
It's just a cheap excuse by people who suck at playing video games to remove the difficulty and challenge and turn games in to shitty films made by failed directors. Don't get me wrong, games are art to a degree, but them being art doesn't mean they don't also need to be games, just like a movie still needs to be a movie and a painting still needs to be a painting and a song needs to be a song. You can't remove the key elements of a song "Because it's art" and still consider it a song or expect it to be a success. Video games need challenge and skill at their core or they fall apart as a medium. You can say "games are art" all you want, but that doesn't stop them from also needing to be good games.
96f3ec No.15775508
>>15773722
I dont think I disagree with the overall statement that games can be art.
Ultimately its all subjective. To me the red dead redemption video where the guy knocks out the feminist suffragette woman, drags her behind his horse to a swamp and then feeds her to an alligator is pure art.
96f3ec No.15775521
>>15775452
Wouldnt both those conditionals always return true in c? Since your making an asignment not a comparison?
36f943 No.15775539
>>15775452
>Master programmer Briana Wu assigning variables instead of checking them in an if statement
>>15775521
I think it would just throw an error as you're not supposed to be assigning things there. I don't work in C but in the languages I work in they throw a massive fit if you make that basic programmers mistake.
8288a0 No.15775540
Just like artificially combining sports and games into the cancer that is "esports", combining art and games similiarly dilutes both of them.
96f3ec No.15775577
>>15775539
>I think it would just throw an error as you're not supposed to be assigning things there. I don't work in C but in the languages I work in they throw a massive fit if you make that basic programmers mistake.
Im fairly sure that c lets you assign things anywhere. Its been a while…
What I expect it to do is try to make the variable 'tweeter' contain the value 'gamergater'. And return whether that assignment was successful or not.
Ironically, translating that code back in to the real world its asking 'can I call this tweeter a gamergater?'.
36f943 No.15775611
>>15775577
>'can I call this tweeter a gamergater?'
Well in that case maybe he knew exactly what he was typing as that is certainly Wu's mentality.
e02273 No.15775615
ok seriously guys i want the games industry to be taken more seriously 🙄
i've been playing games since the N64 era, so i'm not a """casual""" and i'm well into my 20's so don't call me a kid. i come home from my job everyday and i always sit by the couch next to my wife's nigger boyfriend. he has her hands on my wife's tiddy and i'm just enjoying Fallout 4, but hes like "hey anonymous! u be walking around and shit but 'chu dont look like u really got anything goin' on in the story. How 'bout I change the TV to something lil more fresh so me and yo wife can get in the mood?"
i was actually really shocked, i thought everybody liked fallout 4! but he was right!! o.o fallout 4 didn't really have anything emotional going on, you just move a character around and shoot things, but the story is ok. i think fallout 4 is a work of art, and honestly a true masterpiece, but it's a masterpiece that's being held back by industry standards. it's really time for people to take video games more seriously. focus less on the toxic, masculine aspect of trying to do things your own and i think maybe let the game speak for itself. :) maybe in the future, i won't need a controller and while my wife's boyfriend fucks her i can actually masturbate. i only have 2 hands, come on now!! xDD
maybe my wife should direct a video game, she has lots of experience and i think the game industry can really use a beautiful and pure soul like hers :)
8eb0cc No.15775628
Games are meant for playing, not watching.
e251f3 No.15775634
>>15773722
They've been pushing this meme for decades and it will never be true. Art, the way they mean it, means some leftist or ((( leftists ))) pushing their messages like AIDS is good for you. It fails to understand what computer are and good for. What they want computers to be is an upgraded version of tv with interactive shopping. This idea fails every time, look at AOL and the slow decline of Facebook and social media.
b35c98 No.15775635
>>15775413
They're a combination of many different art forms to make an organic world or experience. Saying that, it being art doesn't mean much. I think people just want to feel important for absorbing art like some high class aristocrat. But now art can be mass produced and many modern tools have made it much easier for people to create their own art. Because of this it can be purchased by most people. I feel that's a reason why some people try to make certain things deeper than they actually are so they can feel like they're still above others who simply "don't understand" how "deep" their post modern art is.
I think it also doesn't help that people confuse "art" with "a work of art". Art encompasses many things while "a work of art" is the paragon of art in general. You can have terrible art and you can have good art. Unless it's sarcasm, a work of art is always seen as a good thing.
I also think not many people see how much work goes into creating a good game. People can look at a painting and immediately tell how good the product is because the details are all face value. Movies and music have been explored in depth and, despite being considered entertainment, they're respected by many as quality art (depending on the product of course). Video games are still seen as products to waste some time on. People will argue ages on end about why their game isn't bad or is good but don't bother looking in depth to what made it so good. It definitely takes talent to make a good game and even simple ideas can be ruined if not implemented correctly. We will have threads here about how abysmal a series has become and people will then realize why the older games were so good.
With all that said, Bullet Girls Phantasia is a work of art in the lewd aspect. Having a girl slap and bully the player while having heart pupils and labored breathing is divine.
e02273 No.15775648
>>15775628
relax anonymous don't worry so much about "playing". its ok to watch sometimes. :)
we need to deconstruct toxic societal constructs like "playing your own games", or "raising your own kids" or "having sex with your own wife".
i think your mindset comes from a general idea of entitlement and insecurity. why are you so insecure, anonymous? is it because you have a tiny penis???? i am completely confident in myself. that's why i don't need "challenge" and i don't feel jealous when i see my wife's nigger boyfriend's erect cock deep in her pink vagina. your probably a bitter virgin anyway thats why your upset about all this! lol
eaa489 No.15775668
>>15773722
>games get attention and retards don't
>retards take over the art scene and scream "you can't say what is or isn't art!"
>"art' now means anything that is simply claimed to be art, be it an incredibly detailed statue, or someone shitting in a can
>these same faggots make games
>they are shit with no gameplay and shit stories
>to cover their asses, they yell "GAMES ARE ART! YOU CAN'T SAY IT'S SHIT!"
>gone homo gets 10/10, life is retards 10/10, etc
54ed26 No.15775685
>>15775482
dude, actually listen to the GDC >>15774495 it was an immaculate defense of Robert Ebert's assertion that video games cannot be fine art. It goes into detail all the "various reasons" why Vidya ≠ Art. One of which is the authorial role one needs to produce a work art that cannot exist in a medium where the player is given free will to interact with the medium subverting the role of the creator from his creation. It even concedes that aspects in part can be seen as the product of an artisan. You are resorting to a personal attack based on a strawman because he didn't bother to understand the sound argument you are responding too which speaks to the essence of what is high art. If you watched the video you would know Ebert himself rejected the idea that most films where art as most was what he considered camp or Kitsch.
aed6f9 No.15775688
Good games are a work of art. Bad games are bad games and bad art.
8bc986 No.15775698
>>15775685
>One of which is the authorial role one needs to produce a work art that cannot exist in a medium where the player is given free will to interact with the medium subverting the role of the creator from his creation.
Is architecture not an artform because you're free to walk around inside the building and rearrange the furniture?
54ed26 No.15775733
>>15775698
the furniture is not inherently a product of the architectural design. If you are able to freely rearrange the walls and the ceilings and doors then you are essentially undermining the artistry of the architect. I doubt one could call a McMansion a work of art. Moreover you are failing to understand the distinction between the product (as in a work of art) and high art (as a paragon of art in general). Kitsch is technically a work of commercial art but it lacks the qualities essential to be considered high art.
d8a7fc No.15775752
Kikes needed an excuse to make unfun propaganda games and trick soy-riddled cucks into buying them.
8bc986 No.15775765
>>15775733
>If you are able to freely rearrange the walls and the ceilings and doors then you are essentially undermining the artistry of the architecture
By this reasoning, adding doors, windows you can open or cover with blinds, or elevators to your building also undermines the artistry of architecture.
>I doubt one could call a McMansion a work of art
It's shit art both as a product and as "high art."
>Moreover you are failing to understand the distinction between the product (as in a work of art) and high art
Oh I understand them alright, they just aren't all that relevant to my point.
54ed26 No.15775782
>>15775765
>buy this reasoning blinds over a window bla bla bla
Oh I see you don't really want to have a conversation you are just a contemptible contrarian who is too stupid to realize that your are not as smart as you think your are.
54ed26 No.15775786
20eccd No.15775797
>>15775782
>I have no response but I must shitpost
c3c947 No.15775810
>this fucking topic again
Games are considered to be art under the Smithsonian, granting them protections against censorship laws such as obscenity. Games are already considered art, and railing against it because the word "art" reminds you of fucking videos where cunts shit in cans or smear spaghettios on their cunts makes you fucking retarded.
54ed26 No.15775829
>>15775797
anon the post I was responding two was clearly just an idiot intentionally being incredulous. But I guess you are also too stupid to realize that your are not as smart as you think your are.
>>15775810
Smithsonian institute is a masonic organization. I wouldn't accept them as a credible source on the topic of fine art.
8bc986 No.15775831
>>15775782
>>15775829
>misses the point
>you're just a contrarian
Nigger, you've fallen so hard for the literature/film meme that you've forgotten existing art forms which already account for interactivity. A game developer's authorial role over his game's systems is no more undermined by interactivity than an architect's is by letting people close the bathroom door or open the living room's windows.
c3c947 No.15775836
>>15775829
Good thing is you don't have to, they already provide the protections without any further input needed from idiots who can't wrap their heads around the fact that they don't need to chip in their two cents.
54ed26 No.15775847
>>15775831
>you've forgotten existing art forms which already account for interactivity
name one, you contrarian sophist.
>>15775836
If you are talking about video games protected under law as an art-form. I am not debating the legality or the utility of that law. I am more talking about what is in essence high art. Video games may contain works for art, say an accompanying musical piece. But The game by it's very nature is not Art qua Art.
36f943 No.15775854
>>15775685
>One of which is the authorial role one needs to produce a work art that cannot exist in a medium where the player is given free will to interact with the medium
My comment here as a programmer/gamedev is that the player has no actual free will in a video game, it's all an illusion because the programmer had to develop each thing the player is capable of doing. It's not like when you build a game you just set up things in the world and the player can interact with them how they want, literally every interaction in gaming is done through a piece of code that a developer wrote. Free will in gaming is an illusion only as deep as the developer has allowed it to be.
8bc986 No.15775855
>>15775847
Architecture, you stupid nigger. Read my posts or go masturbate to Tolstoy.
>contrarian
>>>/reddit/
380e8a No.15775876
The propaganda apparatus that is western media is trying to turn video games into another means of delivering an Anglo liberal worldview.
36f943 No.15775881
>>15775854
I should note there is an exception to this: Exploits and bugs found by the player that were not intended by the developer, these of course can break a game or at the very least the illusion the game is providing. That said it's the job of every developer to have as little bugs/unwanted exploits in their game as possible (though some developers plan in exploits and bugs and make them part of their games).
8bc986 No.15775897
>>15775881
Architecture also has bugs and unintended functionality. They usually hurt the architect's intended experience but don't outright disqualify the building as art, and on rare occasions (as with all art) accidents can actually improve the work.
36f943 No.15775918
>>15775897
I'd bet in architecture occasionally they'll use some of these flaws or unintended functionality as part of their work as well just like developers sometimes do for games.
54ed26 No.15775934
>>15775855
>gets btfo'd over an over again
>too stupid to realize that (you) have been owned.
>no u are from reddit
>>>/ovens/
>>15775854
Considering the deterministic nature of computer programing. I imagine you are in a sense correct. However, considering the fundamental core of game design is essentially a process of creating challenges for a player to interact with it undermines the potential authorship one would need to actually make High art. This product would need to be highly focused with either a single developer as the craftsman or with a talented art director at the helm of the production. That said, while its theoretically possible I have yet to see a game that in all areas could be considered high art. The concession is that there are certainly parts of games that are masterfully designed. For example, the composition accompanying Super Ghouls and Ghost composed by Mari Yamaguchi
could easily be considered a work of art, but the game as a whole is far from High art.
5569dc No.15775938
>ITT: armchair artistes and sociologists
bd5a08 No.15775945
>>15775938
Was this edited to be an anti-footfag image?
5569dc No.15775953
>>15775945
I think it's just a second version that the artist drew.
54ed26 No.15775954
>>15775855
also:
>Architecture
If you change the building you are undiminished and degrading the artistic vision of the artist. The furniture in the building, such as blinds, is not a part of what is the architectural vision.
>>15775938
way to undermine your position by posting a poorly drawn cartoon. :^)
54ed26 No.15775957
c87957 No.15775964
>>15775945
anti footfag would just use regular shoes.
-t footfag
b35c98 No.15775967
>>15775954
Have any more of this stuff?
8bc986 No.15775978
>>15775934
>>15775954
>sophist
>contrarian
>too stupid to realize you've been owned
How exactly does this BTFO my point? You keep stating interactivity undermines "authorship" inb4 folk art iteratively improved over the generations isn't art either while ignoring architecture already accounts for interactivity through things like doors, windows, and in some cases (usually Japanese architecture) even adjustable walls without undermining its authorship
>The furniture in the building, such as blinds, is not a part of what is the architectural vision.
Many architects would strongly disagree with you, since they're fond of designing and picking furniture for their buildings too.
>>15775938
Doctor Anon, I'm /agdg/
a19c3d No.15775981
>>15773722
#notallgames
Very few games might be considerable as art but nothing the talentless hacks of today are belching out. Sounds like an effort to get shit products under a dubiously respectable umbrella term.
54ed26 No.15775983
>>15775934
>>15775854
to add to what I am saying, I would fallow up by adding that what make a good game is at odds with what makes good art. That in essence one could make an interactive computer generated experience that could be considered art, but at the same time it would undermine what would be considered a good game. See walking simulators. The liberty necessary for a game, is at odds with the authorial controls and constraints one would need for an deep and meaningful artistic vision.
>>15775967
I have a folder
2c1031 No.15775990
Unless someone posts their Masters in Art History or a good book behind the philosophy of art none of you are qualified to speak, much less live.
I have reported this thread to Mark and it will hopefully be stricken off soon. By arguing about the definition of art you have turned something beautiful into a malformed demon. It must be put down.
380e8a No.15775993
>>15775938
That and shitposting is what Chan’s are for
b35c98 No.15775996
>>15775983
Nice. I uploaded some to the Share Thread a while back. I could use some more.
d37a6c No.15776000
54ed26 No.15776004
>>15775978
Architecture is not enhanced by interactivity. Buildings degrade and need maintenance. The authorship in folk art is passed down, thus the story teller is therefore taking on the role of the artist. The fact that you dont't understand this fundamentally implies you are ether stupid or intentionally being incredulous just to win points on the interwebs. Pic related is 4U big guy.
8bc986 No.15776012
>>15775983
>>15775990
>That in essence one could make an interactive computer generated experience that could be considered art, but at the same time it would undermine what would be considered a good game. See walking simulators. The liberty necessary for a game, is at odds with the authorial controls and constraints one would need for an deep and meaningful artistic vision.
>he thinks games need to be more like walking simulators to be "art"
>you need a Master's degree or a philosophy book to disagree with me
my fucking sides
You've done nothing but parrot the opinions of walking sim fags and bookfags/filmfags who know little about vidya. The-
>>15776004
>Architecture is not enhanced by interactivity
>Architecture is not enhanced by interactivity
>ARCHITECTURE IS NOT ENHANCED BY INTERACTIVITY
6e32d6 No.15776018
2c1031 No.15776024
>>15776012
>you need a Master's degree or a philosophy book to disagree with me
Well retard I was talking about the people arguing about art itt and had never brought up video games, but since you brought it up yes you do need a degree or a book to disagree with me.
b35c98 No.15776025
>That blood spray in the first image
Anime tier.
2c1031 No.15776033
>>15776025
>Describing a painting using terms like "Anime tier."
This is precisely why I want this thread deleted
NOW
54ed26 No.15776036
>>15776012
>muh walking sims are video games
walking sims are not video games
>things don't degrade when I poop on them
way to prove that you are clearly a nigger. Stay mad kiddo.
also filtered
>>15776014
for your collection
b35c98 No.15776052
>>15776033
If it's anime you wanted anon. I can provide that too.
2c1031 No.15776060
>>15776052
It's describing a painting as anime I don't want, the proper term is to describe anime as a painting. There's a major difference in wording.
8bc986 No.15776063
Thanks for the amazing kek, 54ed26. Whether you like walking sims or not, you're still repeating the exact justifications their developers use to remove interactivity from their games. You can spam classical art all you like but it won't make your opinions on art or architecture any less retarded.
I should get back to work. Who knows, maybe he'll enjoy my game someday there's a small chance he's played one already.
>>15776024
Sorry, I fucked up and thought you were >>2c1031 .
54ed26 No.15776065
>>15775990
I took two years of Art History and I'm talking about this video which correctly asserts video games are not high art >>15774495
b35c98 No.15776070
>>15776060
You're taking a dumb joke way too far anon. Drink some beer and lighten up.
54ed26 No.15776072
>>15776063
> Whether you like walking sims or not, you're still repeating the exact justifications their developers use to remove interactivity
and walking simulators are still not video games. The fact that you don't understand this distinction is proof you are a nigger too stupid to realize that your are not as smart as you think your are.
2c1031 No.15776079
>>15776065
>Two
>>15776070
I don't drink I get high off my own superiority.
258b46 No.15776081
>Can someone explain to me the whole "games are art" narrative being pushed?
easily. This is mostly a push made by journos who despite trying to make a career around video game related media, don't feel comfortable playing traditional games. It doesn't make them feel "mature" enough, that and they're just plain bad at regular games. So if a game presents some light arthouse material to them they suddenly feel validated in the sense of faux-maturity they prop themselves up on. "i'm too smart and cool for a simple game of shooting dudes or platforming i need something DEEPER" so they play a game about shooting dudes with several interludes of walky talkies and hamfisted "somber" moments and they can spend a week over-analyzing these aspects to convince themselves that THEY'RE super smart, and that games aren't just for STUPID KIDS they can be DEEP AND CHIC FOR COOL PEOPLE LIKE ME
kill all journos
8bc986 No.15776101
>>15776072
>missing the point again
Are walking simulators video games? Whatever they are I see most of them as non-vidya software, the vast majority are shit and you're still parroting the opinions on their devs whether you like them or not.
>your are not as smart as you think your are.
You're sure fond of this statement, mister art student. I wonder what inspired it.
I don't think I'm smarter than anyone else. If I have any advantage at all, it's from not attaching pride to my beliefs or intelligence so I can adapt if I realize I'm wrong about something.
2d409c No.15776102
>>15776065
>I took two years of Art History
Tell me the name and/or author/year of that first painting then. It looks pretty neat but it wouldn't surprise me if it was merely box/concept art of some JRPG painted in SAI.
8bc986 No.15776104
8017e5 No.15776117
30dcb6 No.15776124
>yes goy! destroy art!
hmmmmm
67ddc4 No.15776135
>>15776102
Not him but since you asked
Near as I can find out, it's entitled Golden Vision, and is by a pixiv artist named Kazeco
3d96ba No.15776384
>>15773722
>Many games are violent and frivolous, and the most devoted players still tend to be young and male, but the best games reveal a mass cultural medium that has come fully into its own, artistically flourishing in ways that resemble the movie industry during its 20th-century peak and television over the past 20 years.
<shit opinion #1
>[RDR2] can be crude and violent, but it is also richly cinematic and even literary…it's a game about power, violence, frontier justice and murky moral choices
<shit opinion #2
<implying that when games become more cinematic they're better as a result
>[RDR2] is a technical marvel
<same engine, physics, logic as GTAV, with all the flaws that this implies
>Violence is anything but mindless…There are plenty of shootouts, but you can choose to avoid them, and when you don't, they come with a cost…instead of indulging no-regrests fantasy violence, it is a literary experience that emphasizes - and simulates - tragedy and personal consequences
Nice how you're just pulling this shit out of your ass. You're basically saying that the game mechanics have some underlying literary significance beyond their intended functions. You're reading too much into shit, friend, for anyone with half a brain cell can see how artificial and hollow the world really is by taking the opportunity to examine it with a more critical eye. While the game might look "breathtaking", all its mystique will ultimately unravel once one notices the seams, which will inevitably become apparent.
>There is a big narrative difference between games and novels and movies: Instead of consuming a story, in a game you become part of it, choosing how it will unfold
It's almost like you don't realize that player agency and a constructed plot will always be in opposition to one another. At best, any good game will offer the player the opportunity to alter the major plot events, but this is the equivalent of placing a band-aid on a mortal wound and expecting it to be adequate. This is not to say that games can't have stories, but merely to point out that the story will always ultimately be disconnected from the player's sense of agency, unless the player is forced to engage in the story through the gameplay. When this happens, gameplay tends to suffer immensely as a result.
>Most choices are smaller in scale…While playing, you must manage virtual campsites, and eat and drink to avoid in-game penalties. These activities can feel like chores, but they also nudge players into a more contemplative style of play, forcing them to slow down and explore their surroundings, scrounging for supplies instead of running towards the next objective. These games are existential journeys built on the rhythms of survival
<implying that there's some deep existential meaning to the act of surviving in a video game
<implying that the experience itself isn't so fucking mind numbing and easy to succeed at that any message it may have tried to send is ruined by its simplicity
That's pretty fucking gay, you know.
>These games can provide a way of confronting reality…The best of these works create an empathetic connection between viewer and character
<implying that happens here
<implying people won't consume the protagonist's character as presented in the story as a secondary entity to the one that they control in the middle of their gameplay session
>Gaming's cultural reputation is born partly from the sense that playing is a way of avoiding responsibility…but [RDR2] is a game about both making choices and living with them
It's a video game; there are no consequences for your in-game actions, beyond the surface penalties that you face for them. Anything that happens in the story is mostly outside of one's control, so it may as well be considered its own entity that is separate from the game portion of this "game". I don't know how you can say this with a straight face.
>It's a game, in other words, that implicitly tells its players to grow up - and it's as sure a sign as any that video games are starting to do just that.
you faggots miss the point; video games are merely a form of entertainment; they're as "socially inclusive" as you want them to be, and you can't experience them without some kind of income unless you're a pirate, but even then you still need to play for internet access and a PC. The idea that people who play games aren't contributing members of society is nonsense. Sure, some people are basement dwellers and NEETs, but they'd be that way even without video games influencing them, because they're products of a society that suffers from greater problems that are not being addressed.
In short, you're a fag, dear author of this shitty opinion piece. You're a fag, too, OP, for posting this bullshit.
e8536f No.15776432
>>15774865
The western world as a whole is kiked as shit it's not something that's excursive to America. Why do you think people from all over northern and western Europe take in rapist migrant men with open arms? Years of Marxist propaganda
639a3e No.15776451
>>15776124
>yes goy, support (((modern art)))
44fcdf No.15776473
They want AAA games to be considered "art", so that their friend's shitty games that have horrible mechanics and aren't good games can be judged as subjective "artworks" instead of more objectively like a game. I.E.
>graphics suck
>controls suck
>game runs like ass
Those aren't valid complaints against "art". They want to make video games about subjective emotions and feelings instead of objective things like what makes the game fun or not.
They also know that once they make video games all emotional and filled with estrogen, that the "toxic males" will all leave. And then they will have control of video games all to themselves. The entire plan is for them to drive out "toxic" males and replace them with soyboys and women who would rather play a walking simulator that looks kind of pretty with a B-movie tier plot (which happens to be better than 90% of all modern games) as opposed to an actual game.
44fcdf No.15776490
>>15776473
Polite sage, but just to add to this. Consider the difference in how artwork is judged and how games are judged. Art has become such a 'safe space' for creative types. It reminds me of that one picture when someone drops a glove on the floor and all the people in exhibit are walking around it because they're not sure if it's art.
That's the type of standards they want for video games to be judged by. And that's what they want video games to become.
30dcb6 No.15776495
>>15776451
>yes, goy all art is modern art, don't support it
8ffed3 No.15776522
>>15773985
>>15774022
Gatekeeping is pretty much what most of these sjws who take over to, so what else do you want to refer it as?
>Elitism
This is half true as there are plenty of those types that exist, however to say it's a total buzzword is retarded as there is a metric fuck ton of elitist retards who are high off their own farts.
e8536f No.15776778
>>15776522
I don't see what is wrong with a little big of gatekeeping. It keeps communities strong and keeps out normalfags who dilute and ruin hobbies. Look at every nerd hobby ever and see what they are like now compared to when it was just geeks.
a9e986 No.15776855
>>15773827
/monster/ logic (according to /furry/)
8ffed3 No.15776930
>>15776778
I was more criticising them for saying Gatekeeping is a bad term for what the sjws are doing.
858403 No.15776971
>>15773722
Narratives are hydras; just as you address one argument, three more spring forth. People endlessly invent justifications to protect a hidden personal motivation. Idiots buy into these justifications. As in the myth, the key to victory is in crushing the whole body.
Having thought about this for some time now, I believe that the unspoken shared thought behind all of the "video games are art" rhetoric is the Leftists' constant push for relativism. By demanding games be considered art, they attempt to divorce the medium from objective standards (which of course work against their poor technical aptitudes, creative bankruptcy, and malicious intentions), and legitimize anything they produce as valid and valuable, placing the onus on the customer to accept and appreciate their product for what it is, rather then them having to produce something worthy their customers' appreciation.
The motivation behind it all is of course the Leftists' innate misanthropy, they hate what (White, occasionally East Asian) humanity is and seek to deny and punish it, to create cathartic self-fulfilling prophecies of human mediocrity and guilt by forcefully dragging everyone down to the same level, and doing so all under the guise of humanitarianism, a valid example of the psychoanalytic concept of reaction formation where people exaggerate the opposite tendency (obsessively talking about love and tolerance) to deal with emotional and mental stress (self-loathing, extended to hatred of their own people).
8ffed3 No.15777061
c9fd2f No.15777069
>>15776025
What is happening in the second pic?
2d409c No.15777327
>>15776135
>Not him but since you asked
>Near as I can find out, it's entitled Golden Vision, and is by a pixiv artist named Kazeco
Thanks, I knew it looked more like Wacom on SAI than oil on canvas. Nothing against it.
>>15777069
>What is happening in the second pic?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Experiment_on_a_Bird_in_the_Air_Pump
92ecbd No.15777604
>>15774487
Schiller's aestethics defined beauty as "the appearance of freedom" (in the Kantian moral sense). In a way, video games have the ability to fulfil this ideal far better than any other medium to date, especially in RPGs where your actions can influence the in-game world. Sadly, the implementation of this ideal has been almost universally piss-poor.
8bc986 No.15777730
So I watched >>15774495 's video link, the one 54ed26 gushed over. Nothing he said prevents vidya from being sublime art, they're only obstacles. The presenter's mistake is assuming that you can only contemplate something when you aren't interacting with it, and high art demands intentional contemplation. Meanwhile architecture is fundamentally interactive and even static buildings without doors or any moving parts are designed for some sort of interaction around or within their structure. Does architecture cease to be high art when you're experiencing it and not actively thinking about it?
Most vidya is not sublime art, even if there is entertaining kitsch and fun, well-designed systems (like Go or Tetris). This this doesn't hurt vidya, which is mostly entertainment. However, I don't believe interactivity prevents vidya from being sublime art any more than it does architecture. Both vidya and architecture creature structures for people to explore and interact with/inside, the key difference is that through computer simulation the vidya developer has greater control not only over the structure but also how people interact with it. Thanks to this greater control, the artist can model not only buildings but worlds or situations the player can interact with.
If filmmaking is sculpting in time as Tarkovsky proposes, video game design can be thought of as making a small pocket of time and space the player can interact with and explore from different angles, taking note as time and events unfold differently. Many of vidya's growing pains are from developers forcing traditional storytelling structure onto computer games rather than embracing the medium's freedom and instead creating structures from which themes, ideas, and stories may emerge through the player's interaction. Is embedding these within an interactive system harder than encoding them in words or still and moving images? Definitely. Is it impossible? No.
Anyhow, that's a lot of autism. Here's some relevant quotes from Tarkovsky's Sculpting in Time if you want even more.
>Art could be said to be a symbol of the universe, being linked with that absolute spiritual truth which is hidden from us in our positivistic, pragmatic activities.
>The artist reveals his world to us, and forces us to either believe it or reject it as something irrelevant and unconvincing. In creating an image he subordinates his own thought, which becomes insignificant in the face of that emotionally perceived image of the world that has appeared to him like a revelation. For thought is brief, whereas the image is absolute. In the case of someone who is spiritually receptive, it is therefore possible to talk of an analogy between the impact made by a work of art and that of a purely religious experience. Art acts above all on the nature of the soul, shaping its spiritual structure.
>The allotted function of art is not, as it is often assumed, to put across ideas, to propagate thoughts, to serve as an example. The aim of art is to prepare a person for death, to plough and harrow his soul, rendering it capable of turning to good.
>Touched by a masterpiece, a person begins to hear in himself that same call of truth which prompted the artist to his creative act. When a link is established between the work and its beholder, the latter experiences a sublime, purging trauma. Within the aura which unites masterpieces and audience, the best sides of our souls are made known, and we long for them to be freed. In those moments we recognise and discover ourselves, the unfathomable depths of our own potential, and the furthest reaches of our emotions
b7bee0 No.15777981
A desperate attempt for gaming to get "recognized" by the general public. Back in the day most people looked down on gaming, made fun of it or didn't take it seriously. In desperation for validation, they pushed this meme to get recognized.
It worked but at a major cost. Gaming went mainstream, everyone who used to hate gaming now are all of a sudden "gamers" to be hip and cool (and they try to gate keep those who were there from the beginning), and invited tons a activists and propagandists into the fold thinking they can make "Art" that pushes their agenda on others. Note: at the end of the day, whether gaming is actually art or not is completely irrelevant.
It was a mistake and one that will cost the gaming industry dearly, if it has not already paid the price already.
7848f1 No.15778216
>>15776971
I imagine anons are mostly also at least a bit misanthropic but I wonder why most of us don't end up like those leftists with their tendency for doublethink, reaction formation and obsession with relativism.
858403 No.15778556
>>15778216
I'd say the difference is that on some level, anons believe that man can overcome himself and soar to excellence, and desire that for themselves. Leftists disdain the extraordinary and seek to destroy it.
2893c6 No.15779089
The real answer is simple. People are ashamed of liking videogames now. They have bad memories of their parents scoffing at them playing Banjo Kazooie in the living room, so now they are saying "look mom, this game is very cinematic and has a deep story!"
b6d0a9 No.15779105
>>15774554
If there is emotion to it, it's undisciplined and lack any and all refinement.
a11f52 No.15779111
They pretty much are, but it's not a special designation and a lot of the time it's basically how fucking fast food cups are 'art'.
dbf14d No.15779131
>>15776451
That's bullshit, it's all a giant money laundering scheme.
b6d0a9 No.15779132
>>15776052
Ah! Kodomo No Jikan! One of my favorite lolicon anime!
e710da No.15779177
>>15773755
Checked
>>15774072
/ thread
Somewhere along the line “Art and Design” simply became a medium for pushing faggotry and marxism. Now instead of labeling it as stupid/faggy/lameass/bullshit its just called an “Artistic design choice” 2deep4u.tm
e02273 No.15779429
>>15779132
>Kodomo No Jikan
You know, most lolicon has a somewhat "wink wink" attitude about sexualizing little girls, and some will even go as far as telling you that they're not even kids but immortal vampires or fairies or something, but literally calling your anime, "It's Kiddy Time!", my respect for your honesty, you damn gooks.
f419eb No.15779447
>>15779429
It is also losely based on Lolita, from Viktor Navokov.
Literally the story of a teacher falling in love with his student and how people despise him for that.
7ccccc No.15779455
>>15779429
>>15779447
>my respect for your honesty, you damn gooks.
and it was created by a woman!
ada6d6 No.15779458
>>15773722
objectively, by definition, they are.
7ccccc No.15779485
>>15779458
it makes no sense to call books, movies/television, music and comics "art", but for some amorphous reason video games are excluded. as usual it all boils down to the same fart huffing intellectuals and academics deciding definitions for things they have no experience with. not to mention, video games being a more recent medium and in financial competition with all the other mediums.
f13f6a No.15779497
>>15774080
It still astounds me that an art project Duchamp did to troll people who look too deep into art and its meaning still manages to have so many people crowd around it who go 'BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAAAAAN' and treat it as high art when the man himself did not. Then again, people do the same for Samuel Beckett's works, like Waiting for Godot.
f3eadb No.15787752
>>15773722
Art is 'mature' and doesn't need gameplay.