>>15693553
>And if you define it it gets too specific and you may just call arena fps quake clones
You can't even call arena shooters a fucking genre with a straight face, because at its core it only consists of two games. There's Unreal Tournament, (and Tribes if you think team modes are the appeal of arena shooters) there's Quake 3 Arena, and then there's ALL THESE FUCKING Q3/CPMA CLONES
Xonotic, Warsow, Reflex, OpenArena, with Toxikk on the UT side, and probably several other in-development ones or lesser ones, what do they actually do that makes them stand out from Quake? Slightly different weapons? Two or three movement tricks only high-level nerds care about? What do they do that mods in Quake 2/3 didn't already do? What is their cutting edge?
All these new attempts at arena shooters die really fast because they're 9/10's trying to imitate an established 10/10 which also has a higher population to begin with. Why bother with some indie knock-off when you can get into a match faster in Quake Live and have an almost identical experience? They're Quake clones developed by Quake pros for Quake fans while trying to appeal to newcomers as much as possible through modern non-gameplay features such as matchmaking or extensive tutorials, but that doesn't matter when you have next to no marketing budget or some other hook, like a fucking singleplayer campaign for one.
The puritanism surrounding the arena shooter genre is absolutely meaningless because it essentially involves copying either Quake or UT down to its fucking toes as we have already seen countless times by now. What other genre is out there that is this fucking stagnant? Are fighting games all Street Fighter clones? Are shmups all Raiden clones? Are first-person shooters all Doom clones? Are real-time strategy games all Dune II clones? Are platformers all Mario clones? Are even JRPGs all Dragon Quest clones? Why is it that fighting games in general of all things still have a vibrant Western community while arena shooter communities are left to rot? I sure as hell don't believe that the problem lies with a lack of people who don't want to play skill-intensive 1v1 games.
This gay "genre" is dead precisely because if the game isn't a Quake/UT clone, it isn't an arena shooter. Either you loosen the definition, or you stop bothering with labels and just make your own fucking thing, like Quake Champions.
Now, Quake Champions is not good. It's Champions concept is horribly botched by the fact alone that all abilities run on cooldowns. But it stands out. Without the Champions, why would you pick it over Quake Live? Moreover, the concept can work. If fighting games remain competitively viable with hueg rosters despite the existence of tier lists, why can't arena shooters? What's stopping that? (Answer: bEcAuSe It IsNt An ArEnA sHoOtEr iF nObOdY sTaRtS oUt ThE sAmE) Put yourself in the designer's shoes. How would you make a (optionally multiplayer-focused) Quake sequel that gives Q3/QL/CPMA players a reason to switch to that other than the initial high population given its inevitable marketing? What would a potential Quake 3: Arena 2 even need to stand out?