/v/ - Video Games

>>15619961

Zelda was never good.

>>15619961

You know, I think I’d forgive a lot of that games issues if they would have just had a decent enemy pool. Sad thing is that in the first magical hour of the game you’ve basically seen everything you are going to see and that definitely begins to weigh on you the further you go. It’s a real shame because the combat and open world aspects are actually pretty good, but everything else is just so lacking.

Fun fact: the very first game in the series has nearly twice as many enemies as BOTW does, excluding recolors. This is not a joke.

>>15620041

I feel like they rushed the game.

>>15620054

I know a lot of the older games had legit enemy variety that you'd have deal with differently.

>>15620069

Just got done playing it again and still one of the most fanatic gameboy games.

>>15619961

There's no shame in being blinded by the honey-moon period, happens to the best of us. Your better than fan-boys being in denial once you've realized though.

Yoko Taro offered advice at some conference, basically saying all tasks within an open-world game should stop at some point, otherwise they become boring and become a chore. No one wants to get all the Korok Seeds, but getting collectables in Neir Automata is a lot more palletable as it doesn't become a chore.

It's better to have a gilded cage full of stuff the player just barely feels the limitations of, compared to an endless expanse and too much to do.

>>15620066

>I feel like they rushed the game.

You're on the money IMO. It was originally for Wii U which tanked hard, or maybe even the Wii. That's three generations it had to re-work around. Not to mention we don't know what it was like behind the scenes. FF15 was troubled and it shows in the game. I don't think the BoTW had development that troubled, but I bet they rushed it out the door to give the Switch another "killer app" at launch.

>>15620518

I don't think you can really call it "too much to do" when it's the same two or three tasks repeated endlessly. If anything the game is barely 7ish hours long, leaving you 1-2ish for the plateau, an hour so a piece for each divine beast and the busywork in between and another hour or so depending on how much you want to fuck around in Hyrule caste. Literally everything else is redundant. Not "on the side", but redundant because you already did it.

>>15620566

I should also note that while they may seem long compared to say LTTP it's infinitely less satisfying because, one, every time you do anything you're given a reminder of how bloated the rest of the game is ,"congrats you just got 1 of 5bazillion useless items!", and the fact the music just fucking sucks. How can I feel like I beat a game when the fanfare sounds like a guy playing a cheap piano on painkillers?

>bats

>octos

>bokos

>moblins

>lizalfos (and elemental lizs)

>stals

>chuchus

>taluses

>hinoxes

>lynels

>3 varieties of guardians

>stal skulls

>wizzrobes

Am I missing anything? How does that compare to Zelda 1?

>octos

>moblins

>lynels

>stals

>ropes (sneks)

>bats

>these spinner things in the desert and on beaches

>peahats

>mummies

>bubbles

>wizzrobes

It's pretty close.

>>15620628

Forgot ghosts and darknuts.

Zelda has to be one of the most exploited and underused formats in the world: It's always the same yet you barely see any 3d Zelda clones. Maybe there are some 2d clones that are pixel shit but barely any that feel Zelda while improving upon the original games.

Just like SotN.

>>15620656

Nintendo hires the best drivers to make sure any competition gets in lethal accidents.

>>15620518

Somebody should have told him to stop putting shitty quests in Nier Automata then.

>>15620656

Thats because Nintendo and most consoles games are stolen assets from previous games made into a safer more casual format.

>>15620530

They did release decent launch game but not a good over all game.There was a lot BOTW could of done right.

>>15620742

Yeah, Skyrim already did a better job in 2011 and that isn't saying much.

>>15620754

Its just basic facts, nothing to go home and write about.

>>15620679

But one would think that the people would see how Pokemon, Zelda or Skyrim are successful and they would try to replicate said success. Instead we have tons of shitty FPS and battle royal games. Maybe it's because it difficult to make them without any kind of vision so people do the most soulless shit they can?

>>15620742

>could of

I'm playing BOTW for the first time on a hacked Wii U and it's shit. Playing on Hero mode and it just means everything is a damage sponge and you die in 2 hits. It has a lot of good ideas but nothing is fully fleshed out. Everything feels half-assed. It could have been considered a bretty gud game if it was released by a new AA dev company.

>>15620530

Originally for the Wii U. Skyward Sword was the Wii's flagship Zelda.

>>15620665

RIP Gunpei Yokoi, too good for this world and ahead of his time.

>>15620811

> Skyward Sword

Skyworst sword.

>>15620813

I will argue that BOTW is at least better than Skyward Sword which, imo, stands as the worst zelda game of all time.

>>15620818

Yes, this is correct. You know, at least BOTW has more than a town.

>>15620780

>br and team based fps

All according to plan for more shekels.

I mean its been like this for a very long time with AAA developers. Soulless really isn't the word I would use but we don't even have real video game developers, atleast not on the grand scale back in the 1990-2005 time. Its all college internships who don't know fuck all, older devs from the hay days who just sit there and PR/make money and (((indie devs))) who remake the same old games but with propaganda attached.

>>15620795

I wouldn't put to much time into it, I personally didn't like BOTW at all and found Skyward Sword to be more enjoyable.

>>15620813

>>15620818

Mechanically maybe, but Skyward definitely wasn't hollow in the story department. Mind you I did play it on Dolphin with a controller that was mapped perfectly.

>>15620839

Fallen hero timeline are the best zeldas.

I wish the climbing mechanic as in a different game. The closest I have is cube world

>>15620839

Well Wind Waker had a giant ocean with literally nothing to look at while you went straight to the next objective. BOTW has terrain and a bunch of tools to traverse it making the journey to the next objective slightly more bearable. I don't care for Wind Waker either though.

>>15620888

He's not wrong though anon, the world is pretty empty. My favorite part was the castle because of the atmosphere but that ended fast and that was only one tiny area in a massive map with nothing but fields and climbing mountains which was a lot more fun than it should've been

>>15620888

>Muh /v/

Why even bother show up if our opinions salt you that much? Give an actual argument and challenge my view points then.

>>15620888

Those trips of salt.

It is true though, AAA companies have been following the Skyrim formula for the last 7 years.

>>15620901

I don't even remember much of Wind Waker besides the ending and the forced stealth section at the beginning of the game.

>>15620823

I don't think you need more than one town since the first game didn't have any towns at all. What they should have done was add more sidequests, minigames, merchants etc on the surface world. It seems like all the optional content happened on Skyloft.

>>15620929

Zelda is the only Nintendo series I play and I never have much expectations when going into them.

You leave that furry alone

>>15620915

>first game didn't have any towns at all

Well, that's another overrated piece of shit. But that's not actually its fault, it was just a product of its time.

>>15620976

I am not killing myself.

>>15620976

He nailed everything except the last one. I don't like the Skyward Sword's item grinding but that's my opinion.

"Damn this would've been amazing had it come out 10 years ago"

The absolute state of the video game industry

>>15621158

It's empty and skyrim while a shit game still has more to offer and when that heap of a game has more content that's sad.

>>15621412

>The compendium is fun though

Yeah, the compendium pleases my autism but you can easily miss things if you aren't dedicated to archiving from the moment you get the camera or if you get the camera too late.

I could never get the game to run consistently on Cemu without slowdowns or hitching (to build the shader cache) and when I downloaded a ready-made shader cache it wouldn't work right because it used over 16 GB of RAM. I have a softmodded Wii U though and the game runs on that well enough to not fuck up the timing while parrying. I installed the DLC but never played it all.

>>15621412

>Mhu the weapons breaking is normal and fine

Faggot.

Gosh Young Link makes me stiff

>>15621938

>Repeating the same retarded criticism doesn't make it true

Welcome to differentiating opinions and the world no matter how hard you try still doesn't have really anything to do. The world is very pretty, but there isn't much to it and it adds back to the rest of the game's flaws. It's a shame too since there is so much that could have been done to spice up the world.

>inb4 muh /v/ and I DON'T LIKE YOUR OPINION!

>>15619961

>World still has barely anything do

Well, you can explore, kill enemies, find secrets, and collect treasure, that's about as much as you could expect from any other Zelda game, right?

>Shrines still are a joke

Well, if you're trying to say that they're not nearly as satisfying to complete as a well designed dungeon with a series of puzzles, combat scenarios, and a boss battle to top it off, then I would agree. However, I think they at least tried to be this in some capacity, but it fails because they're much less substantive than previous games.

>weapons still degrade too much

Yeah, there's not much to say about that.

>Barely any enemy variety

Yeah, there's not much to say about that.

>Eating food in the menu pretty much makes the game a joke

I like what they were going for, but in the end I don't think the food's utility mattered beyond "replenish my health and maybe give me a passive buff that will give me an increase in X ability or allow me to traverse X environment for a limited time". I'd still prefer that enemies and objects drop hearts, and maybe they could include one or two special health potions, but this system isn't all that much different, just needlessly complex.

>Nothing really meaningful to collect

That's kind of subjective. It could be argued that most items throughout the series had very limited utility beyond their ability to kill a specific enemy or bypass a certain type of gateway. Most of the time, weapons that were used to kill specific enemies could be replaced with other weapons or methods of attack that would ultimately make the special weapons less contrived or more convenient to use. The point being, this has always been the case throughout the series.

>No real drive for a second playthrough

That's also pretty subjective.

I'm also somewhat disappointed with the game, but I think it has about the same amount of content as any of the previous games, and its only real shortcomings lie in the questionable design decisions that ultimately conflict with one another in various ways. For instance, why should it be the case that players can't craft a consumable item that would allow them to repair their equipment? This impacts the player's readiness for combat, which in turn will either force them to find something lying around to compensate or simply avoid combat. Both of these solutions fly in the face of exploration, because the player will not feel as though he can approach anything head first without being slapped around like a bitch. This in turn kills the desire to continue exploring. Why can't players use any magical spells to circumvent or augment the use of physical weapons? It'd be nice if I could summon a magical sword in the event that my actual weapon breaks, or use a magical spell to repair it. I think the game would play better if Link had a variety of spells he could use. In Zelda II, Link had spells that were situational but interesting. For instance, one could use the fireball to replace his sword beam in the even that he took damage. Although the fireball was weaker than the sword beam, it could be used to hit multiple enemies at once, which is useful for clearing a screen, and of course there were certain enemies that were only weak to the fireball, so it was necessary at times. Nintendo loves gimmicks; this was a prime opportunity for them to come up with a showcase of gimmick spells that could help Link solve puzzles, travel through the environment, and stay alive in combat. The Shiekah Slate tablet thing sort of offers some of these features, but they're only ever used to complete basic puzzles.

Why are there no dungeons in the game at all? Why are there so few enemy types, when even the original Legend of Zelda had Zora and Tektites and Darknuts and Dodongo and more? The shrines were a fun novelty, but they're ultimately nothing more than that. they're just one large puzzle that requires some degree of forethought and lateral thinking, but that's it. I think they could've removed 50% of the shrines and incorporated them into actual and full length dungeons and the game would've been better for it. Hell, they could've even made some parts of the environment a dungeon. For instance, Death Mountain in Link to the Past was practically an extension of the Turtle Rock dungeon; if you want to complete it, you have to travel between light and dark worlds to enter different caves on the mountain and make progress throughout the dungeon. This was a prime opportunity for Nintendo to capitalize on this kind of design, but they missed it.

I could talk about this game at length, but in the end I think it's fair to say that it's mostly a well polished but bland entry into the series. It really makes you wonder where Nintendo's priorities are. People like to say that Dragon's Dogma is Japanese Skyrim, but this is the real contender for that role.

>>15621969

Burn in hell faggot

>>15620628

And most of those are spread pretty uniformly across the world. Plus, there's the fact that most of BotW's enemies are bipedal and carry a weapon. As a result, most of the fights all around the map feel the same. Contrast it with, say, Wind Waker, where you have firey centipede things in the fire dungeon, several plant and bug enemies in the forest dungeon, knights and living statues in the tower, and ghosts and skeletons in the tomb. That makes the areas of Wind Waker feel distinct in their enemy types and compositions, whereas you just see mostly the same shit everywhere in BotW, and sometimes that same shit happens to have a coat of fire, ice, or electricity.

>>15620024

this

>>15621412

beat master crap with 3 hearts the weapons breaking makes the game shit fuck you idiot

>>15622380

>Your problem is you're too afraid of breaking that one weapon you thought was so difficult to find.

I don't know if that's his problem, but it's not mine. Mine is the fact that there's no fucking point to weapon durability, at least from mid-game onwards. Early on, it helps carry the survival mechanics, requiring that you scrounge up every weapon you find in your effort to survive in the hostile world. Later on, when better weapons spawn more commonly, you have more inventory slots, and you're more proficient at the game, weapon durability is no longer an obstacle. You find more weapons than you can use. At that point, the mechanic is just a frustrating annoyance, especially since enemies are such health sponges in the game. It makes it feel as if every smith in Hyrule was terribly incompetent at their job, and even the best of the weapons were poorly made out of mediocre, at best, material. It also has the effect of making weapons feel less valuable, especially as a reward for exploration. There's less satisfaction in finding a weapon, when you know it's going to eventually break and you're probably already full on them, anyways. When you got something like the Biggoron sword in earlier entries, it was a major reward. In BotW, it would be a moderately exciting find, at best.

>>15622432

>It makes it feel as if every smith in Hyrule was terribly incompetent at their job, and even the best of the weapons were poorly made out of mediocre, at best, material.

Too be fair most of the weapons you find are at least 100 years old and had to survive a near-apocalyptic calamity

I actually somewhat agree with everything else you said though. But I also still think weapon durability serves some point even in late-game scenarios because you still have to think about optimizing your weapons for certain applications. Axes are better at cutting trees than as weapons for example, swords can cut down trees but aren't as efficient at it, and you would generally want to use a hammer to break ore and not a spear.

The biggest mistake is that there is no late-game smith that can repair weapons. It would admittedly make a huge positive difference if later on the other Tech Lab robot unlocked a way to turn in Guardian pieces to fix your shit or something

>>15622467

>because you still have to think about optimizing your weapons for certain applications

Not really. You rarely have reason to cut down trees. I satisfied the huge lumber sink of Tarry Town just by teleporting between stables, since most of them have a free supply of lumber for you to partake of. Ore can be easily broken by bombs, and the fact that they send the gems flying usually isn't much of a cost. Elemental weaknesses are barely utilized, and you have arrows for that, anyway.

>>15620628

Forgot ghini (ghosts), darknuts, gels, dodongos, armos, digdogger, keese, lahmolas, leevers, like likes, patras, pols voices, octoroks, tektites, wallmasters, and zols

That is leaving out the bosses, but not leaving out bosses (like dodongos) which become minibosses.

I have no nostalgia value to N64 Zelda's I played OOT a year ago and really liked it. Playing Majoras Mask, getting used to the time mechanic it somehow makes the game feel smaller and shorter.

>>15622612

BoTW can eat ass, fell for the open world meme hard.

>>15622618

I don't think it "fell for a meme" so much as it was a throwback to the original LoZ that was generally fairly non-linear and everyone criticized Skyward Sword for being a boring linear piece of shit

>>15622630

Yeah I remember how in the original LoZ there were no dungeons and practically nothing of value to find or do.

>>15622652

In the original LoZ it worked because the combat was less boring and the map itself was smaller

>>15622657

I was being sarcastic. LoZ had more content even if the map was smaller. The problem isn't the size of BoTW's map, it is with the lack of everything else.

I like how they focused more on adventuring than most games out there. I like the idea of weather and travel being game mechanics. That being said, all Zeldas are shit, but I hope this gives good developers the courage to try out adventuring mechanics in their games.

>>15622630

If that's the case, can't have your cake and eat it too I suppose. Although they really should have taken time to add more stuff in the game. I remember buying the house in Kakariko village? with the cute 1000 year old loli and it was just buying a house, nothing more to it. It was cool at first climbing shit and wide open world to see but it's got nothing else going for it. Shrines are shit, no dungeons, no meaningful questing. I didn't watch previews for it so I played the game completely blind, I was hoping for once they'd change the fighting mechanics. Just an awful game.

>>15622662

They definitely need to leverage the combat more, starting from OoT or wind waker but not as easy. The fluidity of being able to switch between sword and items mid-combat was always my favorite thing about 3D zelda.

Here's how to fix BotW

>No weapon breaking. It doesn't make you use more weapon types, it just makes you waste your goddamn time.

>Instead of four of the same goddamn short dungeons, put all them together in one dungeon, then all the shrines together to make more dungoens.

>Sidequests give you spirit orbs in addition to the other rewards.

>Maybe make traversal more important. I don't remember there being anything important that's off the actual roads.

>Korok puzzles are super repetitive why are there so many of them? To compensate for you possibly missing them? I like the concept but their execution is iffy.

>Actual items from the dungeon that are as well thought out as your slate abilities. Maybe more magic or whatever.

>I don't know what to do about the fact that without the shrines, the world isn't worth exploring as much. It's not the 80's so some old man in a cave giving you the choice between a heart container and a potion won't cut it.

Aside from that it's mostly fine. The map is decent, if a little too big and definitely woudn't work with my changes. I like the mechanical depth for the most part, but there's not much to use it on. Hyrule Castle is the best dungeon in the game, and that's kinda sad. I've said it a lot, but they should really just remake the first game with the BotW engine. So really I don't have a problem with the engine, just the actual game that was made with it. That's unfortunate, but better than Skyward Sword where okay dungeon design was wasted on shitty mechanics and would rarely let you do anything without Fi telling you exactly what to do. I've also said this before, but Link to the Past ruined Zelda. If you liked it, you're the reason shit like Skyward Sword exists.

>>15622727

>I've also said this before, but Link to the Past ruined Zelda. If you liked it, you're the reason shit like Skyward Sword exists.

Care to elaborate on that?

>>15622727

>remake the first game with the BotW engine

I hope you mean really remake it, because the first game doesn't have much going for it, aside from an elegant simplicity and its openness.

>>15622764

I'm assuming he is saying LTTP is what established the Zelda formula they used for nearly every game afterwards. Which is dumb it's like saying Dark Souls ruined the souls games. Liking a good game that was a breakthrough at the time doesn't make you bad. It isn't your fault the devs got lazy and stopped innovating. Besides adherence to the formula was not Skyward Sword's problem that game was Nintendo's first attempt at deviating from it. Skyward Swords problem was treating it's audience like retards and thinking all Zelda games needed to be 50+ hours. The only stumbling block that came from the formula was the boring overworld they shoehorned into the game. Now Twilight Princess is a game that fucked up by sticking too close to the formula. That was also the game that for some reason decided all Zelda games need to be incredibly long.

>>15622794

That's what I thought, but maybe he has an actual argument so that's why I asked

really? another shit on botw thread? its already been well established what people didn't like about the game and what can be done to fix it.

>more shit to do between dungeons

>real dungeons

>more enemy variety

>make weapons repairable or remove weapon breaking

>bring back items

now can we get an OP with some effort put into it or are we just gonna have the exact same thread every other day until the next game gets announced?

>>15622815

I don't know why this board has such a hate boner for it. It could be better, but it's not terrible, gets some things right and is fun overall. Certainly no worse or "emptier" than any other open world game.

>>15622841

because it's not a pc game

>>15622815

I need more arm-chair game designers/analysts to speak about how its the worst game ever

>>15622841

It feels more like they made a good engine and the game was made with the leftover time. Now here's hoping that on the next one they use that engine to its potential instead of trashing it and repeating the same cycle.

>>15622841

I legitimately think it's one of the few open world games to get the open world formula right. It doesn't inundate you with a bunch of stupid shit when you discover a new area, you're just given the general layout and that alone temps you into exploring what you see on your map.

>>15622859

Surely the new generation of zelda developers actually take feedback into consideration and don't stick their heads in the sand like shiggy did for decades.

>>15620069

>>15622841

Because there were a ton of people at launch who tried to say the game was a masterpiece despite the obvious issues it has. If there weren't so many anons white knighting for BotW and Odyssey, the reception probably would have been closer to disappoint than pure hatred and disgust. I'm not saying people wouldn't hate it, but there would be way less hatred than there is now.

>>15623015

Yes I'm well aware of the BOTW emulator, doesn't make it a PC game. Also well aware of how they flushed down all their progress to hack together better support for BOTW.

>>15622157

more?

>>15623028

No.

>>15623026

>Also well aware of how they flushed down all their progress to hack together better support for BOTW.

Even BotW saw performance regressions though in recent releases. I don't think they fucked support for other games in favor of BotW, that doesn't make any sense, I think they tried addressing Nvidia and AMD driver quirks and failed miserably. That's supposed to be addressed in 1.14 though, its taking a long-ass time to release because they're pretty much re-writing the entire rendering backend

>>15619961

BotW is a prototype for the next Zelda game which is gonna be more story driven + open world. Think Witcher 3 and BotW smushed together.

It's basically a BETA, it's not a finished game, that's why the world is so empty and the story is paper thin and the shrines are so short.

>>15623050

It didn't lead to any progress for anything else. Instead the thing became bloated with hacks just for a single case scenario, all for patreon bux.

>OoT randomizers

How cool

>>15623058

I really hope you're right. I'd love another game with more items, no breakable weapons, and proper sailing instead of just "find a raft and use a korok leaf like an idiot", maybe re-use the gust jar idea or the wind waker, which would also let you fuck around with the weather systems by throwing storms at enemies, getting rid of rain while you're trying to climb, or control bush

fires.

And proper dungeons and ruins to explore.

>>15622380

My problem is that I don't fucking care about weapons. My problem is that they shouldn't make my weapons break to make me explore the world.

>>15623423

I still have idea why they thought having weapons break like glass was a good idea.

>>15623058

>inb4 ZeldaXRabbids

>>15624418

Still think Skyworst and BOTW were poor games and will still think this after a new one comes out.

>>15624418

>game is disliked by the majority

>years go by

>only those who liked the game still care

>LOOK NOW IT'S LOVED! ZELDA CYCLE!

Wind Waker was and still is trash.

>>15626187

t. hipster

>>15626283

No Wind Waker is still pretty bad with awful time wasting segments that last hours and the worst dungeons in the series.

>>15624626

No, you won't, redditor.

>>15626300

Anon, every videogame is a timewasting segment.

>>15626283

>buzzword

wtf i love wind waker now

>>15624418

There's been like 3 zelda games since Skyward Sword and everyone still agrees it's one of the worst Zelda's ever made. There never was a Zelda cycle. Go fuck yourself.

>>15626301

This the new try to fit in tacit?

>>15626361

<Skyworst

>>>/reddit/

Yes, you didn't fit in. You failed.

>>15626300

>that last hours

If you're bad, and, even then, it doesn't just automatically nullify all the good parts of the game.

> the worst dungeons in the series.

How? Even if they were bad, Phantom Hourglass's are still worse.

>>15626421

>Phantom Hourglass'

It been forever since I last played that, how has it aged?

>>15626438

The only Zelda game that was fun at all was the Wind Waker.

BotWs world is shallow as fuck. That's it's main problem. The towns, the shrines, everything is just so damned empty.

The world itself is really nice, probably the best overworld out there. There's just nothing in it. Beautiful plate, where's my food?

>>15626327

>There never was a Zelda cycle

What else would you call the series being flushed down the proverbial toilet?

>>15626465

>Wind Wake

I did like the art design and the dugeons where ok but the boat shit was garbage. My favorite zelda games are still: LttP > the Gameboy Zelda games > Breath of the Wild > Zelda 2 > Zela 1 > All other Zelda games.

>>15622764

I will. I've seen a few interviews where Miyamoto has said he was trying to make Link to the Past for a more casual audience. Even in this one, he talks about how he was worried about people getting stuck.

http://shmuplations.com/zeldalttp/

This is the downward trajectory he's been on for years now. The only time he really feels like doing anything good or different is Pikmin because he really fucking loves Pikmin for some reason. Eiji Aonuma has a similar problem, if you take a look at the development of Zelda games and all the shit he's said. Amusingly Hidemaro Fujibayashi directed almost all the best and worst Zeldas, including the Oracle games, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass, Skyward Sword, and Breath of the Wild. Really just put Yoshiaki Koizumi in charge of Zelda, he's a better fit honestly.

>>15622794

Don't put words in my mouth you fucking nigger. Link to the Past was not a breakthrough in any way. Structurally Zelda 2 has a lot more in common with LttP with how it fucking gates you out of certain parts, and it lets you explore all the fucking nothing a fair bit. Link's Awakening is a far better game than LttP and it adheres more directly to the "Zelda formula". At least you recognize Twilight Princess was shit, too many people think it's good. Granted, I dropped it during the tutorial because it bored me to death. Fucking modern 3D Mario games have more brisk intros than that, and that's Yoshiaki Koizumi's weak point.

>>15626438

> Breath of the Wild was the Best Zelda game in years

That's accurate, the Skyward Sword came at least 2 years before BOTW. In comparison with other Zeldas BOTW is still trash.

>>15626465

Just admit that it was your first Zelda. It is obvious that it was.

>>15626531

Botw is better then ever Zelda game after LttP. And I somewhat agree with dfe035 when he say's LttP set the tone and trajectory of the series. Zelda games where originally about exploration and adventure. But because of cart limitations and a focus on storytelling LttP forced the player to go through the game in a linear path. While Botw has its faws its the best game in years because it don't emulate the shitty stale Oot formula that hasn't been fun in 20 years.

I still play BOTW now and again just to do some side quests or just run around a bit. If I ever get into combat, I just use the Master Sword. If it's broken, I just avoid combat. It's not as though my Link is weak or anything, nearly got fully upgraded Ancient Armor and all weapons are bare minimum 40+. If I've got the electric spindash move, I'll use that on the toughest enemies (white ones/guardians) and they're usually dead in one hit. If not, then I'll just use as many more as I need (with the master sword). I've got a shit load of weapon slots too but this game actively encourages you to never use your weapons, despite the main idea behind the weapons breaking was so that players wouldn't stick to using the same ones all the time.

They should've just allowed you to repair your weapons, reduce your weapon limit to say 3 or 4 weapons max and just made certain enemies weaker to certain weapon types (armored ones weak to blunt weapons, big ones weak to spears, little ones crowd in like a mob attack, etc.

It would've helped if they kept in some of the moves from TP and WW just to add to it. The parry is pretty good, but the dodge is just stupid. If you dodge something, you should just not get hit by it. If the enemy model collides with you, but the hitbox doesn't as you dodge, then you're still rewarded for dodging, despite you visibly being hit. Slowing shit down all the time is pretty lame too.

Also, where the fuck are the Redeads and the Stalchilds? They could've easily been the mob enemies I mentioned above, with some slightly different attributes (redeads still freeze you but slow, Stalchilds quicker but weaker). But nah, just randomly spawn one of the same 3 enemies you've already been fighting for 10 hours.

Also, a few extra towns would've been nice. They didn't need to be big, just something more than just fucking stables everywhere.

>>15626540

It was the first Zelda I finished, but I did play some Ocarina before that and got to the forest temple before abandoning it until I was 17- 10 years after.

>>15626519

You know Zelda games have more to them than just being open, you realize? And a series formula is only a formula when it's established across multiple games in the series. If Zelda II and LttP are closer to each other than the original Zelda, then they defined the Zelda formula. You might as well say top-down action adventure is the Legacy of Kain formula, if you're saying Zelda 1 defined a formula that Zelda II and 3 failed to follow.

The only addendum keeping Lttp of my shit list is how randomizers keep the game fresh otherwise it would also be on my shit list of bad Zelda games. *

>>15626561

The first Zelda game was the best Zelda game, Zelda two was a cool concept that was executed poorly but it loved as a cult classic because its unique. LttP is good because its the first of its kind. But ever singe game after LttP was a clone. The gameboy games where the only ones to take that formula and improve it but all the other games have been stale. The only reason people have a Hate Boner for BoTW is because they hate change.

>>15626554

>While Botw has its faws its the best game in years because it don't emulate the shitty stale Oot formula that hasn't been fun in 20 years.

Well, it emulates the shitty formula it has been around for 10 years and does nothing interesting with it like, let's say, Majora's Mask. Just a bland mess of Ubisoftian open world.

>>15626578

Unlike, not like.

>>15626540

Maybe he's like me and is clinging to it because it's the only console Zelda between the first one and BotW to have anything resembling the classic Zelda formula. Which is to say, a world you can explore mostly how you want. Unfortunately they fucked that up horribly, disregarding the fact that they didn't even really finish the game before it shipped.

>>15626561

It doesn't matter how long or over how many games a structure lasts. The point is that they changed it. How would you feel after playing a game you really liked, you found out the entire rest of the franchise is something different. Maybe Puyo Puyo is a good game, but if you liked Madou Monogatari you're mostly fucked these days. Or maybe you really like Banjo Kazooie, but you suddenly realize at this point Banjo has been in 4 racing games compared to the 3 platformers, and that Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts is a fucked up return to his roots. Do I even have to go into how schizophrenic Sonic and Digimon can get as franchises?

>>15626572

I hate BotW because it's wasted potential. And this is coming from somebody who's basically beaten the game.

>>15626586

>It doesn't matter how long or over how many games a structure lasts.

It does when you define it as a formula.

And I still fail to see how people who like LttP are responsible for SS. At best, that seems like straight snowball fallacy. People who liked LttP liked the balance it had between the openness of the first game and having a more structured world progression, similar to how Metroid works. A change in the series being popular doesn't mean everyone who likes that change is responsible for any other change to the series. Do you blame Metroid Prime fans for Other M?

>>15626614

>At best, that seems like straight snowball fallacy

If there's anything I've learned in the last few years, it's that the slippery slope fallacy is not a fallacy

>People who liked LttP liked the balance it had between the openness of the first game and having a more structured world progression, similar to how Metroid works

Except the game is entirely linear until the midway point, when suddenly the numbered levels are now able to be done in any order pretty much. While this could be a callback to the numbers in the first Zelda meaning nothing, the fact of the matter is as a game made for more casual audiences they would just follow the numbering because that's what they think matters.

>A change in the series being popular doesn't mean everyone who likes that change is responsible for any other change to the series.

How long have you been on /v/? Because replacing the community with newer people who don't understand shit has been a problem in every community ever. This is exactly the problem, as now there are "Zelda fans" that don't know shit about Zelda. Fuck, I'm not even a Zelda fan because they kept making games I didn't like.

>Do you blame Metroid Prime fans for Other M?

I don't know too much about Metroid, never really cared for any of the games in that franchise personally. That having been said, while it can be argued that the teams being entirely different and on entirely different continents means that there's only so much influence, I can guarantee you that Metroid Prime's focus on story compared to classic Metroid set the stage for the fucking madness that is Other M. Similarly, I can point out how Masuda, director of many Pokemon games and current director of the fucking disaster that is Let's Go, has been on a slow descent into madness over the last few years, culminating in casualizing a game series that was already made for the most retarded of children.

>>15626665

Now you're assuming that everyone who liked Zelda 1, when it was released, is exactly like you and disliked LttP. Increasing the audience and replacing it aren't the same thing. There are plenty of fans of the series that started with 1 and still liked it through OoT, at least. You're essentially claiming that anyone who doesn't share your opinions of the series are also responsible for the worst of it. SS was made because the devs were growing tired of the established formula, not because the preceding formula was popular. You're falsely equivocating "these people liked a change I didn't like" with "these people pushed the developers to make a change they never asked for." You're also acting as if Zelda 1 had no gates of its own. Several dungeons either required or heavily insisted on the player having specific items. Ganon could only be fought once all eight normal dungeons had been beaten. Dungeons may have been beatable in any order, but they certainly weren't accessible in any order.

>I can guarantee you that Metroid Prime's focus on story compared to classic Metroid set the stage for the fucking madness that is Other M.

No, you can't. Fusion set way more emphasis on story than any Prime game, and Other M apes it heavily in more than just that aspect. Sakamoto, the director, had always been obsessed with focusing heavily on the story of Samus, and Other M was just a result of him having complete freedom, despite all the most popular games being made when he was heavily restricted with what he could do. You're making grand assumptions about the reasoning behind the actions of developers, and essentially claiming that any change to a series is responsible for any future change.

>>15626769

I never claimed this was anything but my opinion you stupid fucking nigger.

>>15626785

>I never claimed this was anything but my opinion you stupid fucking nigger.

>>15622727

>If you liked it, you're the reason shit like Skyward Sword exists.

That seems like making a fact-based claim, to me.

>>15622947

>not embed related

>>15626829

>>15622947

Really liked minish cap, too bad the GBA sounds like diarrhea

>>15626868

Maybe try not being a pedphile? :/

>>15626923

>you needed all the triforce peaces, a raft and a ladder

And the candle to open a dungeon and light some rooms. And the wand to kill wizrobes to open a locked door. And the flute to open another dungeon and beat a boss. Bow and arrows to kill pols voice in a reasonable amount of time.

>here is gates railroad you down a single optimal path. Therefore their is no replay value, and the replay value is where in lies the issue.

But it doesn't. As >>15626665 even said, once you beat the first four dungeons, you're given several options on where to next go. Hell, I'm pretty sure you can do dungeons 2 and 3 in whichever order you want, as well. LttP is not nearly as linear as you claim it to be.

>But the LttP/Oot kiddo's sucked all the fun out of Zelda and its time to STOP.

You're acting like being open is the only measure of quality for the games. What the games you dislike lacked in freedom, they made up for in tight design. Fusion may not have been the most open Metroid, but it has some of the best action in the series, and Metroid happens to be an action-platformer, not just an exploration-platformer.

>still make a great game

They didn't, they made a decent but heavily flawed one.

>Zelda two was great because it was fresh and experimental

Zelda II is good because it has fun combat and progression, not because it happened to be different. Innovation isn't inherently a good thing.

>stale formula

So, if every game was a repeat of Zelda 1's design, it would magically not be stale after so many iterations? You seem to be confusing your bias towards more open games with objectively measured quality.

>>15626969

>if I get real pedantic people wont realize I don't have a valid point

>LttP/Oot doesn't railroad players

hhhhhmmmm

>Innovation isn't inherently a good thing

never said it was, but stagnation based on loyalty to a unfun formula that was only in place due to cartage limitations is also not inherently a good thing. Look up an appeal to novelty and appeal to tradition fallacy.

>so I am going to end it with a Zelda 1 strawman

so one minute you are saying I am appealing to novelty but then you proclamation I want it to remain like Zelda 1? Are you trying to shift the goalpost and re-frame the discussion?

>>15626604

>i am at someone capable of logical self-narrative

congrats on not being an npc and having opinions, you are able to not live by the rules of the zelda cycle

>>15619961

I somewhat agree with you. The new gameplay elements were fun and I enjoyed playing through the game, but the overworld was so empty, and seeing abandoned destroyed landmarks from the older Zelda games was depressing. Hopefully a sequel will be more lively, because Nintendo said they are basing all new Zelda games on this one.

>>15627018

>zelda cycle

Stop repeating this meme. It was created by rectum ragnarok'd fans in defense of weaker entries in the series that they happened to like. Namely in defense of WW when TP came out. Then Nintendo itself shilled it around as a way to damage control the complaints surrounding every new entry.

>>15627032

>Rectum ragnarok'd

>Complains about "memes"

>Proceeds to use a 4chan meme

>>15627021

>Nintendo said they are basing all new Zelda games on this one.

So Zelda is now going to be Open world for the foreseeable future?

>>15626995

>if I get real pedantic people wont realize I don't have a valid point

You implied that Zelda 1 was more open than it actually is by claiming two items and the triforce pieces were the only gating the game did. There's nothing pedantic about putting facts straight.

>LttP/Oot doesn't railroad players

You know I didn't say that. You know I said LttP wasn't a completely linear game like you claimed. You're exaggerating the qualities of Zelda 1 and LttP to favor your personal opinions on the games, making LttP out to be completely railroaded with no options on how the player progresses, while making Zelda 1 out to be entirely freeform and giving players nearly complete freedom in how the progress, when neither are true.

>an* unfun formula

According to you, who seems to judge fun factor purely based on how much freedom the game gives the player.

>that was only in place due to cartage limitations

Do you have a single fact to back that up? If LttP was more railroaded due to cart limitations, how was Zelda 1 more open despite being on a cartridge that was even more limited?

>so one minute you are saying I am appealing to novelty but then you proclamation I want it to remain like Zelda 1?

You imply that that staleness was due to LttP's "linearity". Your overt praise of BotW comes from its return to Zelda 1's more open design. Yet you claim that BotW was "fresh and experimental" (it wasn't), praising that as one of its greatest qualities. Yet LttP's new features to the series apparently don't count as being fresh and novel. You simultaneously praise BotW for being a return to "form" and for being "new."

Good job avoiding my largest point, as well. Openness isn't the only measure of fun for a game, and it certainly isn't the only measure of replayability. Yet you act like it's the single most important factor of these games.

>>15627063

Zelda cycle is an ultra normalfag meme. So I am still ahead.

>>15627175

Summer 2007 never ended and we're both in shitposting purgatory. Hopefully the midterms crash this fucking site so I can go outside for once

>>15621412

>can't even look at the Sheikah pinup you get after completing the compendium

that was such a letdown

>>15621153

pretty much most games are pretty fucking pathetic unless you are a multiplayer autiste. Single player games in general are dumbed the fuck down. I remember puzzles in the first couple tomb raider games that are more advanced than entire games they make nowadays. Lot's of games can be fun if they implement the right combat systems and shit but when it comes to level design and complicated gameplay the industry is really braindead or making everything easy as fuck on purpose.

Hoh boy… I'll try not to mention THAT. I think food should have been potions that you carry in bottles, but have a mechanic where you need to wash your bottle before refilling it with a different potion or throw the bottle away. Food can still be in the game, but with potent effects like extra hearts that last an in game day for example. Weapons should be repairable if they add modifiers to them later on, but still have diminishing returns in the form of permanent damage if over repaired. This will force you to switch weapons eventually. Also some weapons like boko clubs are irreparable but those weapons are so shit you only use them as a last resort.

Also why hasn't footwork been incorporated into combat. By stepping forward, backward, sideward, or not you can change Link's swing of his weapon. And depending on weapon you want your footwork to match your attacks. One handed Blades with and without shields can have two different styles. Axes and hammers could grab and hook shields. Spears are cheese weapons that you have to quickly side step with a narrow attack width. Footing can change how weapons work by timing your attacks with your steeps.

Shiekah Slate was cool for a while but I miss bomb and arrow management. A concept I thought about was casting fairy magic art the cost of rupees. Make the abilities powerful and consume an overly abundant resource like rupees while other resources you need for items are scarce.

Also can make the next game thematically opposite of BotW: A world of scarce resources but abundant skilled labor.

It's not even an actual Zelda game anymore than Zelda Musou is. Zelda Musou is a Musou gasme with Zelda skins and Skyrim of the Wild is a Skyrim clone with Zelda skins. Neither are true Zelda games.

>>15627242

>Single player games in general are dumbed the fuck down.

They really are.

>>15626963

First 3D Zelda was Ocarina of Time. Though now that I think about it, I think Link's Awakening may have been my first Zelda total.

bump

>>15620054

>spyro the dragon has more enemies than BOTW

>they were all animated and modeled by one man (some of them are like fucking 5 bones tops, but still)