/v/ - Video Games

Video games are not financed by gamers anymore.

>need to

They don't, a lot of indie games are being made and a decent chunk of them are enjoyable. I'd agree that there seems to be a dirth of mid-sized studios that can make more complex games without the budget blown on graphics and voice actors though.

Why don't they just try and finish the game first, then make a release date like the movies and put in the marketing then, when it's done instead?

I mean, there are so many games today that are broken and receive negative word of mouth because of it, that it would be stupid to have hard date deadlines out to the public like that.

>>15605125

>They don't, a lot of indie games are being made and a decent chunk of them are enjoyable.

Exactly.

>>15605126

>Why don't they just try and finish the game first, then make a release date like the movies and put in the marketing then, when it's done instead?

Cost efficiency. Profit and loss analysis. They have the numbers down to a science. They know they can release a broken game early, fix it later and make more money in the long run than sit on it until it's fixed before sale.

>>15605107

Games aren't sold on the basis of being fun or high quality, with a high degree of craft anymore. They know customers have no standards and will lap up anything they're given.

>>15605171

Celeste

Subnautica

Into the Breach

Dead Cells

Rimworld

The Messenger

You're welcome :^)

>>15605107

Because organized crime can never be satisfied.

>>15605141

Well, that's the answer, the question at the base of your passive-aggressive argument there is "why do the Jews…"

Same reason blockbusters cost a fortune to make: people pay for that.

>>15605107

To be frank I am doing ok for a game dev and tbh I am pretty drunk so I will tell you how actual dev process works. When you make a game, you put your money on the table and hire people who will work with you and success or failure will influence their careers positively or not. The first game we put out was based on an idea we've seen from here, but it was unknown and badly reviewed and generally was a waste of our time for a year.

Then we decided to make the shittiest, baitiest game we could think of - purposefully and absolutely bad. It sold like hot cakes netting our studio 400k $ altogether after steam cut. Ever since I shit on gamers. They don't know what they want and they will buy anything as long as you use latest gimmick. We're already using EA to sell our next game and it's gonna get to a playable state before we drop all support. Tbh I'm fine with it. Gamers are trash and I am glad I can make a money off them like they cattle they are. They don't deserve love.

>>15605275

>non-jew unironically acts like jew

This is cultural appropriation, goy!

2.5D was and still is shit.

>>15605275

>Gamers are trash and I am glad I can make a money off them like they cattle they are. They don't deserve love.

This. Even in 3000 people that make up /v/ maybe 50% are gacha addicts and underages

>>15605275

b-but anon, don't I deserve your love??

>>15605275

>The first game we put out was based on an idea we've seen from here,

You can't say that and then expect us to not ask you what game it was.

>>15605357

>50%

>underages

that's an overly high estimate I think

Its probably more like 25-30% max I bet. There's no way people could be that cancerous and mobages and gacha get shit on everywhere outside of their containment threads (and even sometimes in their containment threads, but they sperg out and cry when you do it). Also there are far more people lurking than posting

>>15605357

I don't even know what gacha is

>>15605224

Rimworld and Subnatica have been early access for a long time.

>>15605389

They were officially released this year, as that is a preferable metric for '2018 games' than games that came out in early access this year, of which there are way more and would have been even easier to compile a list with.

Nice try though, nigger.

>>15605393

No, the devs said the games where complete this year, faggot. The game was released (which means it hit markets) a long time ago. You could actually twist it to say that they released a part of the game but then every game that has dlc and patches would fall onto this definition and that would be completely true.

>>15605414

>coming into a random thread

>being this much of a deliberately obtuse retard just to start a debate

Nah, kill yourself :^)

>>15605292

Truly the horror we deserve this halloween

>>15605552

what game is that?

>>15605641

Ghost of a jew's tail

>>15605275

I think exactly the same. People who are willingly going to pay for shit deserve nothing but shit, and that's the vast majority of people who play videogames. Most "gamers" have zero fucking standards and will buy whatever gets the most amount of advertisement pumped into their faces, so no wonder all AAA companies waste so much money with marketing and all that jewish shit. But the truly sad thing is that it's not just a videogames thing, that kind of problem is everywhere: art, music, films, books, clothing, humour, technology and even stuff like politics themselves. People have lost any kind of taste/sense of quality and are nothing but shit-eaters.

>>15605663

This. My wet dream is seeing all game debs living on the streets. I hate them because the exact same reasons they hate me: I see how fucking stupid they are as a collective.

>>15605235

This, underrated post.

>>15605275

Nice larp.

Your not wrong, tough, normalfag consumers are shit (or NPCs). Most of entertainment company's know that and just want to make money on that, political propaganda machines saw that it was profitable for them and started to use entertainment industry for their purposes to.

Its always the same shit, when an industry falls in the tastes of NPCs all love and passion dies, neomechevics just capitalize on the situation.

>>15605107

Cool guys at the beach!

>>15605423

>>15605473

Now thats not how to behave when losing an argument against fellow anon, to much assblasted.

Kek.

It seems to me like it's a self defeating loop.

We gotta make a shitton of money so we should market to all these different groups. To do that we gotta spend a shitton of money on marketing. Once we do that our game has to be as safe as possible to appeal to all these different groups at the same time, otherwise we're gonna lose the shitton of money we just spent marketing the game we want to make us a shitton of money.

I just don't get why publishers don't take risks with smaller titles, where the risks are smaller but the rewards could be higher since you're spending less money and potentially getting shittons in return.

>>15605777

risk is a concept lost to the market now. nobody wants to risk ANY amount of money. you see the whole world shifting to be more conservative and then you ask why people are so afraid to take a risk?

>>15605812

Yeah but the risks are smaller, right?

I mean I bet even a bit of risk taking in the marketing departments could cut down on costs massively. I don't know the details of the marketing is since I live in a third world country and most of it doesn't reach me, but it has to be working if this stupid shit model keeps getting used over and over again. There has to be a much better way that costs less.

>>15605835

these companies pay for market research that shows a certain level of marketing always drives people to buy your game, not that they'll like it. then order more research to find what watered down mess people will tolerate. the main problem is companies walk hand in hand with each other and nobody wants to be the one to take that first step into risk no matter how small. i mean the multi-billion dollar profit making warehouse i work at is complaining they could be saving 10K a year if people used less gloves they provide.

>>15605107

Games made by like 6 guys and no budget get released today. They just don't get bought because back in 1993 there were like 20 games released that year for DOS. There are like 200 released every month nowadays.

>>15605107

One word: MARKETING.

>>15605125

Indie games don't have as much quality as the 90's games from bigger publishers such as Elder Scrolls Arena. Despite being published by a decently sized publisher, Arena was worked by only a few men and women.

>>15605258

Indie games are early access patreon funded garbage too.

Most of the budget today goes to marketing. A good part goes to funding busy work for useless women and niggers for tax breaks and good goy points on social media. These are all tertiary to the actual game which will mostly be churned out during crunch time when the rest of the company realizes they have skilled and marketed for something that doesn't even exist yet.

Reminder that nepotism'd voice actors tried to demand they get paid STUNT HOURS for their voice work

>>15606282

>STUNT HOURS for their voice work

That makes no absolute sense.

>>15606453

It does make more sense than you think. Since they're trying to make vidya more like (((Hollywood))), this of course requires VAs to put on mocap suits, which qualifies as stuntwork. Of course, it's retarded to begin with since you don't need AAA names to voice your game

>>15606470

High profile VAs are like those ex-girlfriends who posture and go on and on about how you need them and then get sad and "humble" when you find a woman who won't throw a bitchfit every ten seconds.

>I'm what made your game/cartoon/movie successful

>you need ME, not the other way around

<wait, who's that nobody bitch?

<what do you mean they'll work for less than what I demanded and will do a better job than what I offered?

<this'll just blow over and we'll be back together like nothing happened, right?

That's when they realized that their name was the only thing giving them a steady paycheck. Dumb fucking faggots. Voice actors can be so easily replaced because all you need is a good range and impersonators are a dime a dozen.

>>15606539

>Voice actors can be easily replaced

i tend to agree that VAs are often unnecesary and budget spent on them would be best spent in coding the game

but then i remeber videos like this and i can't help to think that vidya has lost something very important with the loss of talented VAs

>>15605107

Jewish money laundering, dipshit.

>>15606646

I would say that incredibly talented voice actors are so hard to come by that they might as well be legends. I don't think anybody can be as talented as the cartoon legend Mel Blanc. The fucker voice acted EVERY sound effect in all of those old cartoons. He was almost the entire cast of Loony Toons and you would never be able to tell it was all one man.

>>15606470

>>15606539

Why didn't they just pick up fresh graduates or even internship students from drama and theater majors? They're not bad at their job.

>>15606615

What if don't want jrpg weeb garbage and strategy games? Indie doesn't have many good shooter or 3D action titles.

>>15606736

See >>15606667 and >>15606155

>Could pay $2,000 per VA to shit out lines, get them their first job in the industry

>OR you can get marketing to pay Sylvester Stallone to voice your shitty COD clone for just $4,000,000, just think of how many boomers will buy it for their kid!

>>15606646

see Deus Ex, most of their voice actors were developers.

>>15606751

>jrpg weeb garbage

they're all western anon, you can tell by the shitty animu wanabe artwork in some of them and they aren't jrpgs

i must have been a maze rat in my previous life cus i love metroidvanias and puzzles more than anything, i had always seen FPSs as brain dead P&Cs where the only puzzle is "use gun on enemy" so i wouldn't know if there's any cos i don't even look for them

>3D action titles

Platinum Games and God Hand have ruined me when it comes to 3D action, if the game does't moove as fast or is as chalenging as DMC Bayonetta or glorious ngos emperor of action vidya God Hand i don't even bother to remeber it's name

>>15606813

>they're all western anon

I can tell, but they're inspired by jrpg's nonetheless. I simply don't like that kind of gameplay, I prefer the less stylized and less gimmicky western approach to gameplay. Also I think the artwork actually looks less generic than most actual japanese games unironically.

>Platinum Games

These are moderate sized publishers with a lot of crunch times.

>>15605559

Has anyone noticed that all the indie dystopia games either (((mysteriously))) die immediately and are never updated, or are full of 100% Grade A Un-filtered SJW, tumblr poz?

>>15606739

How the hell is Pokemon Red/Blue on there?

>>15606965

>50 million dollars of marketing

I can believe it. Pokémon was fucking everywhere when it came out.

>>15606739

>FFVII

>$216M

That's such a bullshit list. The citations are dead links and Polygon who've circularly used wikipedia as a source, wikipedia in the full FFVII article says the combined total was half that, there are still no decent sources to any of it, and there's no way they actually blew nearly a quarter billion in 1997 dollars on a video game, of which $50M was somehow supposed to be development with a team barely over 100 (that's like salary for 10 years). It would be like rolling everything they made from their videogaymes division up to that point into a single game. It's Jap marketing that was repeated enough to be accepted as truth.

>>15605107

>>15605275

>mainstream society is shit

>games become mainstream and also shit

No-one could have anticipated that

>>15606810

I'm not convinced VAs in particular are a big draw.

>>15607117

It's weird as hell man. All _those_ people have this idea that by making games more "socially relevant" and "immersive" that they are somehow paying tribute to the art form, but in reality it has nothing to do with game design. The average developer/consumer nows sees the games they play as an extension of their personality, like other people are going to be impressed by it. There now millions of morons playing pay-to-win idle games and hug-box online games, and neither developer nor player could less of a shit about the actual mechanics.

>>15607545

That sounds like bullshit. So he's a marxist because because he went to an uni where they did a paper about marxism in a degree he wasn't part of?

>>15607559

Worse than that, it uses wikipedia as a source image.

>>15605107

Because AAA games are a money making exercise rather than a game making exercise. Same reason why so many games are trilogies these days, it maximizes profit over a console generation while minimizing risk.

>>15606739

Even with a development budget in the low millions you can afford a development team of 100 people if you can crank out the game in a year.

I am surprised to see Pokemon Red/Blue/Green on there, I don't remember seeing any marketing material for it unless the anime counts as marketing but that didn't air until 1997.

>>15607606

You have to remember that Pokemon is a Japanese franchise. And while it came out in NA in 97, it launched in Japan in 96. Pokemon is so crazily beloved today that Nintendo runs a franchise of stores called the "Pokemon Center," which ONLY sell Pokemon franchise merchandise and games.

Consider just how much has gone into Pokemon that they have a fucking franchise they created JUST TO SELL MERCHANDISE FOR A FRANCHISE IP VIDEO GAME.

Its mainly due to competition. These mega-publishers are intent on trying to one-up one another in revenue and they do that by maximizing marketing exposure.

Basically, its about following the industry leader. For a while now Activision and TakeTwo have been reaping enourmous revenue, compared to the rest, by putting a high priority on marketing. In a sense it forces the rest of the industry to "comply" due to the responsibility to their shareholders' and investors' investments.

Its basically about shipping a minimal viable product and putting as much glitter and sparkles around it as possible.

>>15607657

Not just Carmack's games. Ultima Underworld, Elder Scrolls, Alone in the Dark, Might and Magic 5, System Shock, and so on were all made in 2.5D. The reason why fully 3D games weren't as popular as 2.5D in the early 90's was because the performance was shit. Even if Quake managed to be made in the early 90s, the performance would be shit compared to Doom. Even Quake still suffered from choppy animation framerate. Full 3D games only began to become feasible and desired by gamers after Todd Howard's Terminator Future Shock and the PS1 were released.

>>15607208

Cihi is actually a pretty cool dude irl.

>>15607690

I'd love to watch a Silicon Valley style comedy series about the absurdities of modern game corporations and development studios.

>>15607657

Much as I miss the simplicity and directness of DOS programming, you're rather missing the fact that today's programmers don't need to write their own drivers either. They can lean on existing drivers and APIs to handle these things. There's a zealous growth in frameworks and toolsets that all try to make programming even easier and more hands-off than before. So programming hasn't exactly become "harder" for people to get into.

It's fully doable to make 2.5D or 3D games today.

>>15605125

>They don't

I agree. Infact, graphics irrelevant most of the time, but nowadays people expect big companies to deliver good graphics.

>a lot of indie games are being made and a decent chunk of them are enjoyable

Disagree. By the huge amount indie games out there, only a small fraction of them are mediocre and as he said >>15606263

even the good ones don't come close to good games from 20-30 years ago made by big/mid-sized studios. I think people who claim indie games are so great just fell victim to the "mermaid phenomenon", but in this case the seafarers are gamers, the big ocean are all the shitty indie games and mermaids are mediocre indie games which in reality are just sealions(mediocre games). There are exceptions, but I can count them on both hands.

>>15606810

>Do what 90's Rareware and occasionally NoA does and use your own employees for cheap and easy voice work.

Jesus H. Christ, we already had this thread yesterday. Just fucking lurk already

>>15607933

It was deleted you cocksucking lying faggot.

>>15605171

What if you haven't played six games this year?

Can I count 2017 releases?

Is Larian "indie"? If so Divinity: Original Sin 2

Is Obsidian "indie"? If so, Pillars of Eternity 2 (Although I haven't played it yet)

Slay the Spire

Rimworld (although I bought it in 2016)

Dead Cells (although I bought it in 2017

Only other games I bought this year were Streets of Rogue (meh at best), Enter the Gungeon (came out a while ago, still a good game) and Dragon Quest XI (definitely not Indie).

>>15606751

Yes but shooters and 3d action are shit genres you normalfag.

>>15605141

>Implying more than 1/20th of the budget goes towards devs

More than half of that money is spent on marketing and other assorted kikes whose sole goal is to make people pay for and swallow a gigantic polished turd.

>>15609819

Take the BlackedOps and Gaylo threads for instance.

>Why do video games today need to have a really high budget, nearly a thousand employes, incredibly strict deadlines, and lots of forced crunch times? The 2.5D era was pretty lax in comparison.

they don't, shit thread, kys

>>15605107

Marketing.

>>15607331

they're not, but the bigger the budget for nonessential shit like voice acting, the more there is to embezzle under (((discretionary expenses))) etc. never underestimate the element of intentional budget bloating, if even shitskins can do it with important infrastructure projects then why won't white and (((white))) guys with a project that doesn't even result in a tangible product.

Diversity hires.

The videogame industry is too big for its own good. It's similar to cinema, and music or literature, to a minor extent. The main difference between videogames and cinema, and music and literature, is that the earlier are "total arts", while the latter aren't.

For those who don't know, total arts are arts >imblying gaymes are a art xdddd which often require the use of more basic arts around said total art's "main dimension" (in the case of cinema, cinematography; in the case of videogames, gameplay), which is what makes that art an art of its own. The other arts are weaved in place to make the work more palatable, because no one wants to watch a movie without dialogues, actors, music and whatelse. Sure, there are instances of "raw movies", just like there are instances of "raw games", like it would be the case of some of the more loosy Tetris instances, but they are usually seen as pedantic shit. The issue with having to sugarcoat the work with more art is that you need to hire several experts to make it, and that's where you start to fuck up. You start to fuck up because you overhire, because as a director, you have no fucking idea how many workers you need to finish your opus in your lifetime. I can remember Halo 3's credits section cycling forever, and back then budgets weren't as overblown as modern Activision open world shit. If you overhire, your game will suffer, either because it will take forever to release due to having to spend a lot of time managing your teams and synchronizing them (which is what happens with those nightmare stories about projects going back and forth on decisions and remaking most of the game several times, which is what causes all those shitty SCRUM crunch times), or because you won't do that and hastily produce a poorly cobbled together mess (read: the whole Watch_Dogs fiasco).

The whole aversion to risk is what's making such terrible games and movies nowadays. Everything is an open world shooter (Battle Royale is just a short fad within this, and will die as soon as ASSFAGGOTS did), everything is a romcom. Why? Because they worked in the past, and even if the market is oversaturated with them, they still sell, because it's gotten to the point people know nothing else. It's gotten so bad these games and movies can only keep their gigantic sales numbers by inflating the budget they put on gimmicks, namely marketing, but also famous actor cameos and the likes.

tl;dr game developers decided to use the cinema development paradigm, the cinema filming paradigm has rot, and so have videogames.

>>15606100

Mobygames lists 893 DOS games for 1993. 513 are listed as commercial releases.

>>15606813

>they're all western anon

Which means they potentially could be weeb. If they were Japanese it would be impossible for them to be weeb.

excessive scale

not enough passionate people working on things they love

>>15606886

> they're inspired by jrpg's nonetheless

only Cross Code and Valdis Story are JRPGish and mostly becos they have leveling, altered status and elemental afinity wich i believe were first introduced in D&D to begin with but the former is a more like Zelda with top down exploration and dungeons full of puzzles and the other is a hack and slash action metroidvania

Teslagrad is a puzzle metroidvania, Iconoclast is the same but with more combat and a few bosses with fun gimmicks and Hollow Knight is a git gud metroidvania, all of them have very minimalistic gameplay, there aren't many actions the player character can perform but the level design forces the player to use them all in very creative ways

>>15607333

first person games are absolute shit and it's practically a miracle that the Metroid Prime series came out as good as it did, plataforming in first person is fucking cancer most of the time furthermore, a good metroidvania requires good level desing above all else and there are devs out there that strugle with 2D level design, adding another dimention would just fuck them up entierly, there's also the fact that rendering 3D is harder than drawing 2D backgrounds

>>15619349

i thought the term weeb refered to anything that came from japan, not to western liking nip stuff

>>15605114

This. They've been taken over for agenda pushing.

>>15619400

Weeb was once a word filter for wapanese, which means wannabe Japanese.

>>15623809

I thought it was white-japanese, like wiggas.

>>15623821

No. It comes from a webcomic.

Because profit margins are slim so it's better to ensure the maximum possible by spending the most possible, because mediocre times a lot is better than great times a little. It's just like movies; Disney movies in the 70's and 80's had production staff of a couple dozen, and now their movies have crew of HUNDREDS, with probably a couple dozen just doing one character's HAIR.

Game A costs $1 million to produce and is so great that it nets 400% profit, for $4 million in sales (3$ million profit).

Game B costs $400 million to produce and was mediocre, only gaining 101% profit. But that's $404 million in sales. Which means this was the better option because that's $4 million in profit. So long as you can attract the larger market, even a razor-thin profit margin will be the biggest.

>>15605357

Video games are for underage though. Even when I play some old multi-player game that isn't even that good I keep hearing 15-year-olds in the voice chat.

>>15607351

what was the deal with fungo? made a remark about ross' girlfriend or some shit? the prick's on yt are hush hush about it

>>15638001

Good pixel art is very hard and expensive. As is great 3d models.

>>15606676

Apparently the 'man of 1000 voices' could 'only' do about 857.

>>15605324

You're shit.

>>15606736

That's awfully insulting what you say. You wouldn't want your house burned down or family killed in an accident, now would you, friend?

We'll let it slide this time, but next time watch out what you say about (((Voice Actors' Guild))), bucko

>>15638391

Well that's another reason to have silent protagonists.

>>15606810

Risk of Rain 2 is coming out soon

They don't. There's indie development, and AA development which is still a thing here and there. I don't know how many people work on the average Fromsoft game, but I would guess not a thousand.

>>15605258

>>15605292

Is that John Flynt?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5905364/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

This many people worked on Sonic Mania.

>>15605292

but where are his balls? How is he hiding them?

>>15638342

Exactly. Risk aversion is mostly math applied to demographics and marketing. Every business is now a casino, where their goal is to extract the smallest amount of profit from the largest number of customers, using math to guarantee that result.

Speaking of movies, as an aside, do you know what I predict will happen in the next ~20 years? The death of the R rating, except for small-budget films. Because it's been proven time and again that PG-13 attracts the largest possible audience, and that's their only goal. That's why Venom was PG-13 when it goddamn well should have been R.

This also probably applies to video games. Just compare the popularity of PUBG with realistic violence, and Fortnite with "cartoon" violence. Expect modern shooters to trend to this line; like the next major Fallout game will do away with dismemberment and blood splatters and everything else. Can you imagine if they managed the make FO5 essentially rated T instead of M? They'd be raking in the bucks from the coddled delicate special-snowflake generation who are too soft for this cruel world; and they KNOW IT.

>>15640171

I think it looks fairly bad in 3d. Why did they go with that?

>>15606739

>us inflation maymay

every fucking time

>>15605107

Lot of responses are saying marketing and I think they are correct. The reason why there needs to be a high budget is because most of the budget goes to advertising to make future merchandise. The sad thing is that this money pumping into advertisements actually works because having standards is nearly nonexistent now. Whenever something flashy is shown people flock to it like crows without giving it a second thought. I could be wrong but I recall Dead Space 2 having a budget of 60 million and a great chunk of that went to marketing/advertising. I'm not sure if large marketing campaigns were a make-or-break situation in the past since most works were works of love and not of greed. Indie games used to be fine but now I'm suspecting that they are also trying to market out their game for a quick buck just like the mainstream but on a much smaller scale.

>>15643996

Aside from that the PG-13 rating will net the largest possible audience, it also means they don't need to invest money into improving the games in general - after all, realistic violence can rapidly net you a higher rating. I also think that when your product has a higher rating, many stores won't carry your product.

>>15640691

If he ever had balls he wouldnt want to pretend to be a woman

>>15637992

Game Publishers are essentially banks.

They would rather risk $100million in capital than give $1 Million away to a small studio because there's a chance that $1million game wouldn't be successful, their logic is that if you throw enough money at a product it automatically is successful and thus safer. This is the too big to fail mentality. One day its not gonna work and when it does those publishers go out of business (see Bioware/EA). The model is failing because the over-saturation of marketing means the effectiveness of marketing is being dulled to the point where it becomes a waste of money.

>>15643996

>>15646248

Carlos aside, I'm going to assume this is why Sony is recently censoring all PS4 nip tiddy games because nudity is a sure way to increase your rating to M, and retailers want E10 games?

>>15605414

>ask for 6 good indie games that came out this year

>anon does is easily

>start whining about technicalities and moving goal posts

fuck off nigger

>>15605107

motherfucking capitalism, fucking everything up

EVERYTHING

>>15606539

Speaking of voice acting, are there any good text to speech programs that could be used to completely replace voice actors? Seems like there should be at this point.

>>15605107

>incredibly strict deadlines, and lots of forced crunch times

If you think games didn't have deadlines and crunch times back in the day, then stop posting and come back when you're 18 and have read up on how your favorite old games were developed.

>>15649816

Save it for a another board >>>/leftypol/

>>15649835

Almost but not quite there yet I'd say from the stuff I've seen.

>>15605758

>Your not wrong, tough,

>>15649930

>a another board

>>15649835

https://lyrebird.ai/

It needs 1 minute of speaking samples, but it's not a free service that anyone can play around as far as I can tell.

>>15606751

Dusk and Amid Evil are shaping up quite nicely. Project Warlock just released (on GOG so yar har!) and is fairly alright.

It's not a lot and the two former titles are still in EA but it looks like at least the FPS market is picking up again.

They don't.

>>15652038

The worst part about copyright is it's not REALLY based on a rational application of intellectual property, it's based on nothing more than how much money and how many lawyers can you throw at the issue until you win. This is how the makers of Candy Crush were able to rape and destroy a smaller developer who had a similar game that predated their own, and then went on to claim that nobody could make a mobile game that had EITHER the words "candy" or "crush" in it, as that would infringe on their copyright. Yes, they actually tried to claim intellectual property over common English words. Not a concept, not a phrase/tagline, just WORDS.

I don't remember if they won, but it wouldn't surprise me.

>>15605126

Movies have release deadlines too. They have often fucked up a movie by not giving it time to cook. On the other hand deadlines also stop people doing jack shit for 5 years and getting paid for it.

>>15605812

Even triple A popular sure fire games are a risk. Look at battlefront 2. It was absolutely perfect investment material, not a single thing could go wrong with it. Even had a well selling game before it… and then it flopped because some retard locked darth vader behind a grind.

Even non-risks are risky.

>>15606100

The commodore 64 has the most games of any home "console" ever. It has so many games released for it that no one has an accurate number or can even estimate them.

>>15607073

FF7 was a tech demo in many regards. A lot of money went into creating the tech needed to publish on the PS1, CDs and all that jazz. It's like RE7, RE7 exists because it's a sure fire franchise to use as a VR test bed. Ignoring the games quality for a moment just consider how expensive getting everyone trained to use VR is, to get the tech to work right for you. Now you slap RE on there and it sells 10 times better because people like RE.

>>15607333

Prime is just a rip off of other FPS games of which there are many indie ones.

>>15607559

Propaganda doesn't have to be true, it just has to work. Learn how to win.

>>15607657

Ken Silverman was an asshole who fucked 3d Realms.

You do understand Doom came out at a time when games were still struggling to have 2D scrolling levels right? Mario 1 was a technical marvel for the tech at the time where having 1 long level was almost unheard of. Many games had to add huge huds to do scrolling levels and vertical scrolling like in mario 2 was considered witch craft

>>15666051

pretty sure it was the computer having trouble with 2d scrolling graphics in multiple directions, but mario only scrolled in one direction or fucking cheated especially mario 3 since it just used the crt's design & overscan to cover up the garbage pixels to get away with it

>>15606906

They get attention and get buried. The title gets used to promote other competing titles that are easier to monetize or have the correct messaging.

>>15666062

Having 10 responses in 1 post is shit tier for responding to. Splitting posts by topic when there's some meat to what you're saying is better.

Now you bitch about meme spacing and show what a newfag YOU are.

>>15666063

That's my point. When Doom came out it was insanely advanced for it's time. It wasn't just a good game but it pushed the entire industry forward. The PS1 would do the same with 3D and then the PC got 3D acceleration cards to compete with the PS1.

>>15666062

>wanting a massive list of replies in a single post

Ur a faggot, you should always limit each post to 3 replies or less.

Any more and it becomes unreadable tl;dr shit.

No ones going to dig through 15 different replies to find the one that was replying to them.

>>15666115

>unable to skim text to find the (you)

How does it feel to have autism ?

>>15607657

The 2.5D engines used raycasting to render 2d images in a way that appeared 3d. Even a game like Tomb Raider was not real 3d. Quake was actual 3d polygonal graphics. Everything is composed of triangles, including the levels. BSP allowed the renderer to exclude geometry not visible effeciently. It worked well for levels that were not very complex. Other methods are used today for more complex environments. Some games may use a very simple method to cull geometry. For example, a game like Etrian Odyssey does not need a complex system. It can excude tiles by distance and direction of the view.

>>15666126

>using pajeetscript

How does it feel to be retarded?

>>15666126

It's an anonymous board. There can be many (yous) and if you have 6 possible posts to be responding to it becomes a clutter.

>>15666143

There days textures are doing almost all the modeling work. You take a simple object and apply a complex texture. It's like witch craft.

>>15609725

>(Although I haven't played it yet)

really struggling there

>>15609732

>normalfag

from your previous post I know you're projecting.

>>15607657

Room-over-room isn't easy at all to do and the reason it took so long is that John Carmack had to adopt all of these techniques that were already known in academia into his engine and make them fast enough to work in real time on his hardware. Today we know exactly how to get room-over-room by applying the techniques other people applied. But if you had to do that in 1995 there is no precedent and you just have to read more papers or think of the ideas on your own. (most of John Carmack's technology came from computer graphics academia)

The paper that Quake's occlusion culling system is based on only came out in 1992, 4 years before his engine was finished and when he was still working on Doom. In this way you can realize that his engines were on the cutting edge of academia- the reason that he didn't make the quake engine before 1996 is because of a combination of a lack of processing power and research on the topic. If you actually read this paper you will realize that it's a description of how the quake engine works.

https://www2.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/1992/CSD-92-708.pdf

>>15666051

You jumped 10 years there. Smooth scrolling in mario was possible because the NES had a GPU that allowed it to render fast enough. Vertical scrolling has to do with nintendo hardware, a game can either scroll up-down or right-left easily. It was more impressive when Carmack made DOS do it because he didn't have a GPU like the NES did, so he had to use a lot more optimizations.

>>15607657

>The "2.5D era" only existed because John Carmack did not understand his own technology enough (yet) to make fully 3D environments.

It's amazing how John Carmack constantly gets credit for things someone else created.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_volume#Depth_fail

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Underworld:_The_Stygian_Abyss#Technology

>>15668514

so if developing games is this easy where are your games faggot?

>>15668557

Where did I say it was easy.

>>15668557

He said developing shit games was easy, and it is.

Literally anyone can shit a 2D "retro" game in months with unity.

>>15668576

>Literally anyone can shit a 2D "retro" game in months with unity.

Worse. You don't even need the executable file with the game for it to be on steam

>>15668586

The Warmachine game didn't put the exe in the game folder either. Warmachines not a small time brand either.

>>15668634

Doesn't Steam claim to check games before allowing them on the store?

I know this is bullshit because of the whole VR situation, but if they do and this is happening that means someone could really fuck their shit up with a lawsuit.

>>15668514

>Had to be coding gods to push the hardware limits

Now it's impossible for a small team to be "coding gods" because Unreal has 10 or 100 times more professionals working fulltime enhancing their engine than you have in your entire dev team, you'll simply never be able to catch up.

>>15668684

Except it is.

Unreal engine is a general engine, they need to optimize their shit for both 2D platformers to autistic plane simulators.

If you're creating your own game you know exactly what is going to happen and that allows you to optimize your shit specifically to that end.

>>15668694

I'd be willing to bet money that there isn't a single non-AAA game with dedicated engine that has particles and physics and other/rendering features as advanced as Unreal Engine's. You're never ever going to make an engine that can output more impressive looking games.

>>15668674

I don't know. That game tanked fucking hard. It was promised as an action game then went full Xcom retard and came out like a slow turd.

>>15668721

>being a coding gods means your games look good

>>15668747

You don't need to be a coding god for anything other than graphics and advanced physics. In fact that's a large part of what coding gods were coding gods for in the past too.

>>15668769

>You don't need to be a coding god for anything other than graphics and advanced physics.

What about optimization, the single thing I mentioned in the post you replied to?

>>15668780

Optimizing what? As long as you're not coding like a computer science graduating Pajeet or using Javascript, it's not that difficult to get good performance from non-graphics related features. It won't make an exceptionally good game to put a "coding god" there.

>>15668805

>it's not that difficult to get good performance from non-graphics related features

Not in current hardware, but just because your knock off tetris doesn't need optimization to run in it, it doesn't mean you should optimize it.

>it's not that difficult to get good performance from non-graphics related features

>what is simulation

>>15605171

Cuphead.

Why does McDonalds need hundreds of thousands of employees across the globe? Why don't they just do what my local diner does and serve the same 5 people every time?

>>15668912

>what is businesses wanting to expand and advertise to larger demographics by going for lowest common denominators, becoming publicly traded and needing to appease a board of stuffy old directors who're just waiting to receive their dividend

Pressures of the business world get more devs than what is needed.

>>15668930

>games only cost 2 cents to make

>thinking the post was about resources

Nigga, they want to sell to larger markets and don't give a shit if you're unhappy about it.

>>15668960

>Pressures of the business world get more devs than what is needed.

Not really. What tends to happen is that a studio makes a big hit and with the money they expand. This makes them file for bankruptcy as they fail to make another hit. Just like TellTale.

>>15668960

That has also to do with marketability. Not about resources but capabilities. Granted, they would need to get a team for that but, unless yo get to EA levels, not a lot of people is needed.

>>15668851

>Not in current hardware

Tell that to Dwarf Fortress. I don't know why you're even talking to unreal shills. You'll notice anyone talking shit about performance or saying "Just use an engine" is making a game that could have come out in 2002.

>>15668960

>makes false equivalence

>gets called out on it

>moves goalpost

Also its

NIGGER

with a hard

R

>>15668980

>What tends to happen is that a studio makes a big hit and with the money they expand

How big of a hit are we talking? Because there's plenty of companies that have been around for years and have steadily built themselves up since the 80's (or earlier) that are still around today. OP is literally describing EA levels of size and the more corporate side of video games (hence the McDonalds comment). I think there's a mix up in that I'm including these huge publishers (because of OP's original comment about huge budgets) and others talking about how many people you need to actually need to make a video game.

>>15668985

>can't read

NIGGA

>>15668780

The optimization people mention often has nothing to do with optimization. Usually, some idiot designer puts things in the environment that are too costly to render together or are never culled.

>>15605126

Nigger nobody EVEN CARES ANYMORE about day one patches. Its standard now.

There was a time when reviews mentioned it but even that is gone.

>>15669470

>what are rendering techniques

>LMAO JUST DON'T RENDER IT

Also, >>15668982

>>15669023

Going by the example, The Walking Death.

At the end of the day it's just what kind of business model you follow. You could, in theory, make a game with a small team and not a lot of budget and have a lot of profit. After that could stay the same and still win profit with the next games. Success doesn't necessarily mean expansion when you are talking about videogames.

Now that the subject has been brought up, is there a decent video or presentation on what techniques and ideas are used to optimize games? I remember the R&C2 devs in their podcasts mentioning how they used something called chunking, and how if something wasn't visible by the camera, it wouldn't be drawn and Crash Bandicoot had triggers in the world to draw or undraw objects.

>>15605107

In the 90s a handful of Japs locked in a room for a few months made way better games that any of the shit we get now.

>>15646824

>One day its not gonna work

That day has come and gone so often lately that they will never learn the lesson that spending a fuck ton of money doesn't fucking work when you do it every time and everyone is sick of the shit products that they waste millions on because they think that they can keep tricking people in the same way forever.

>>15669536

>designer puts things in the environment that are too costly to render together

>too costly to render together

>render together

>or are never culled

>never culled

Really hard to explain things to brainlets. You miss words that are important for the meaning of the statement. These are common mistakes made by level designers. Some placeables might have some cool shaders attached to them, but the intention likely wasn't to have several of them placed in close proximity. Sometimes they throw down objects that have no LOD options set so are always rendered with max detail.

>>15669929

>>render together

Again, your technique is literally to not render it.

>Some placeables might have some cool shaders attached to them, but the intention likely wasn't to have several of them placed in close proximity.

*But you usually don't have several of them placed together in close proximity.

That's why generic engines don't optimize for that, but you could if you needed it in your game.

Besides, culling stuff is a rendering technique which requires programming logic.

>>Also, >>15668982

>>15669965

>Again, your technique is literally to not render it.

You are projecting. Brainlets would need to remove it or complain about it on a forum.

>>15668982

>Dwarf Fortress

>game from 2002

Dwarf Fortress was programmed to run on a single core, which is fine considering when the project started. Today, it is a limitation. There is little gameplay difference from a game made in 2002 and today. Why should graphics influence whether or not you play a game?

>>15605235

>>15623803

>>15669662

This.

>>15605275

>>15649816

Impotent leftist being an impotent leftist.

Inflation. As in, they inflate it on purpose.

>>15607340

Social signalling and trying desperately to be part of the "in crowd" absolute dominates life for a huge portion of people currently alive. Every single thing they do first goes through this "will more people like me if I do this" filter first.

I pray this is just a current cultural phenomenon and humans aren't naturally like this.

>>15670686

>Why should graphics influence whether or not you play a game?

If you paid attention to what I've been saying I'm talking about NON-GRAPHICAL RELATED PROCESSING

>There is little gameplay difference from a game made in 2002 and today.

Exactly. The industry is completely stagnant because we have devs who just remake the same shit over and over again. IT'S SO BAD THE INDUSTRY TREND NOW IS LITERALLY TO RE-RELEASE OLD GAMES. Everyone is too chickenshit to manup and try to see how far they can go with modern hardware, and by that I don't mean graphics. Which is basically what I was stating here >>15668514

>>15605114

100% this.

>>15605107

because videogames now take a lot more hours to make, dumbass