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File: 5fbb1caced7265f⋯.webm (7.83 MB, 640x360, 16:9, desync_osmojoust.webm)

e115f1  No.15578378

Everybody knows by now what a parry is. Or reflecting attacks. You block an enemy attack at the nick of time, and that enemy is stunned while you get some kind of boost that lets you move in for a counterattack. It's a risk-reward move that's satisfying to pull off for sure, but the problem is that it makes a lot of other mechanics redundant.

For the amount of risk involved it's natural that there should be a great amount of reward involved as well, but when parries often come down to being a simple timing check with no downsides to parrying other than missing it, then parrying can easily become the most dominant strategy, which then only encourages more passive play as you're waiting for an enemy to attack first (see AssCreed) before you can deal serious damage.

You should look no further than the party system Ys games. What was a series of frantically moving about now turned into a game of standing in front of the boss' face and parrying every attack it throws at you while you spam attack. When you can parry anything, you don't even need to move around to avoid the attacks, turning each attack no matter what shape of form into a simple timing check, and boss fights into a game of memorizing attack timings. The shittier bosses in Dark Souls are like that where they're simple timing memorization challenges because you have a parry and i-frame dodge move, so the only way they can make the fight harder is to have the boss throw off the attack timing.

You can make parrying harder to do by giving players other unparriable attacks to deal with or directional parrying like in MGR, but all that amounts to is giving the player more shit to deal with and only sidesteps the fact that parrying is still the best thing to do whenever possible.

Basically, you should have a reason why you wouldn't parry, else you're mostly relying on parries instead of the whole system. So what reason could there that prevents parrying from being the dominant strategy?

(embed relates ties parrying to a resource, which is one way of doing it)

cc72e3  No.15578435

what is this game? looks cool


00289a  No.15578439

You can punish the player for failing the parry, Dark Souls had you receive counter damage if you get attacked while you're at the end of the animation, it was very obviously not nearly enough, probably because you can also get countered if you're doing anything but standing still or moving, and they didn't think to distinguish parry countering from regular counters.


a3aa07  No.15578460

>>15578378

The true question is that in a game with both blocking and parrying, why would you choose one over the other? Maybe, it's because I was too much of a scrub, but in DS 1, I mostly blocked and dodged, and rarely parried, because there was a smaller risk of receiving damage, which to me, was better than the opportunity to countering the enemy.


4bb6eb  No.15578464

I don't mind parrying. However, what I do mind is when it is incredibly inconsistent. I've been playing KoA: Reckoning recently and the parrying is satisfying when you stun 4-5 enemies that are surrounding you. What ticks me off is that you can parry Ettins but not Jotuns who are about the same size. I learned this the hard way when a Jotun took out 3/4 of my health in one swing. Dark Souls II is probably the worst with this because you can parry a lot of enemies, but not riposte and other times you can't parry at all when there was no reason you couldn't. If I can parry the asshole who is as tall as the cathedral I'm standing in, why can't I parry his cunt minions?


12967d  No.15578466

A parrying system in which you need yourself or your camera in a specific way to parry a blow would be neat.

It would force you to actually pay attention on both your own movement and your enemies and makes parrying more than a rhythm game.


ae2bc6  No.15578472

>>15578378

> So what reason could there that prevents parrying from being the dominant strategy?

If reaction time required for parrying is above human capabilities

http://www.teyah.net/MilliaBlocker_v0.3.swf


16ecbc  No.15578476

>>15578439

If you ask me, the risk reward is perfectly balanced.if you miss, you're eating a hit you easily could've rolled through. And I think that's the key thing here, is you're reducing it to "oh well you only take a little more damage from a failed parry than a regular hit" when in most cases you're likely to take no damage from the hit if you're not parrying. It's a good balance of risk to take more damage with chance of dealing more. The inverse here is rolling and r1 attacks are much safer defensively, but they make the fights drag on a lot longer. I honestly find parry bosses to be some of the most fun bosses because it puts you in an all or nothing mindset. It's the same kind of fun as a rhythm game, where you need to recognize the attacks and respond quickly or get hit. One of the best examples of this is Gwyn on high NG+. Hes fuckin pathetic at NG if you can parry, since even if he does hit you, you can easily sponge the hits then continue parrying. But in the higher NGs he can one shot you, and it becomes a very tense situation where one slip up can cost your life. But hey, maybe I'm just autistic and dont get it


4bb6eb  No.15578482

File: e2f3a36a5ff2d05⋯.jpg (147.33 KB, 1024x640, 8:5, Monsoon.jpg)

>>15578466

That would be good. Sort of like if a fencing type parry/riposte system I take it? Having to time, position and distance yourself in order to do a massive attack would encourage people to learn and actually use a skill they never would have in the game beforehand besides maybe distancing. Could also be effective like in MGR where parrying made Monsoon easier compared to just blocking his attacks.


a3aa07  No.15578504

>>15578482

>Could also be effective like in MGR where parrying made Monsoon easier compared to just blocking his attacks.

The secret to Monsoon, especially when he uses the smoke attack is to thrown an EMP grenade, you don't get ranked on the use of items like in DMC or Bayo so why not?


2a2aa5  No.15578506

It could be interesting if the game made it so the AI changes out how they attack when the players is successfully parrying too much. A lazy way of doing that would be to just have them doing a non-parryable attack more often, but it could be really cool if they actually change their behavior to attack in ways that makes them difficult to parry.


cc4f15  No.15578509

>>15578466

Virtua Fighters 2-5 had the best parrying for a fighting game at least.


4bb6eb  No.15578534

>>15578504

I never really used the items even when a situation called for it. The first time a helo showed up I just kept jump slashing it and still got an S.


e115f1  No.15578589

>>15578439

The amount of punishment isn't really the main factor. All it does it make the punishment for fucking up harder, but it doesn't take away from the fact that if you know the timings well enough (which in most cases means getting the QTE right) it's still technically the best option. And if all attacks are parriable, then with enough memorization of attack timings you can parry through almost everything. The thought process behind whether using a parry should not just be worrying whether you'll fuck it up, but also if the situation actually calls for it.

>>15578504

You can actually just Offensive Defense dodge through his smoke grenades safely.


1fbc44  No.15578610

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Yeah, this ruined Onimusha for me. I prefer when parrying is possible, but so risky and hard to do that you're a fucking legend when it goes off well, and dead when it doesn't.


cf0c3c  No.15578769

I like how Bujingai: The Forsaken City handled parrying. You had to be head-on to parry the attack, and you had no control over the parry.

When the attack (ranged or melee) reached you, you would go into a temporary parry animation: for ranged, you would swing your swords in a figure-eight motion around the magic-ball projectile, holding it in place; for melee, you and the opponent would engage in a kung-fu sword dance-like animation (sorry for the vague description. I can't find any videos of it).

Here's the catch: next to your health bar is a small circle of white flames. This is your parry meter. When you enter the parry animation, the white flames start to snuff out (quite rapidly) so you have to counter-attack quickly. If all of the flames go out, the attack damages you. The risk-reward is that the flames deplete faster than they replenish, and once they are all depleted you cannot parry until a certain number of flames have replenished.


26f5e7  No.15578836


4795a7  No.15579241

File: 54484b17613e4e2⋯.jpg (908.17 KB, 1261x543, 1261:543, Sin and Punishment - Star ….jpg)

File: 4ab5a85ab1984ab⋯.jpg (539.85 KB, 1531x884, 1531:884, sin and punishment weeaboo….jpg)

Works pretty well in the Sin and Punishment series.


e115f1  No.15581687

File: 23d34939cdf4c44⋯.webm (9.23 MB, 320x240, 4:3, Sin and Punishment - 2-2 ….webm)

>>15579241

Shit, I intentionally didn't mention that one just to not make the OP any longer.

Reflecting missiles at least wasn't a straightforward win mechanic as you actually had to aim where you'd reflect it to, which is especially hard to do in S&P1 with the limited turn speed of the crosshair whereas in S&P2 everything is much faster because your aiming is unrestricted. I like the fact that reflecting missiles was tied to performing attacks instead of being a separate parry button, too.

S&P1 was kind of lame because you could just mash the attack button until a missile got in your range and reflect it, though S&P2 fixed that by having melee attacks be part of combo, where the third and final strike had a lot of recovery frames you couldn't easily cancel out of in order to discourage mashing. Parrying melee attacks also wasn't an insta-win as it didn't give you any i-frames or a damage boost, so trying to parry something while the screen is being filled with bullets may be very tricky.




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