/v/ - Video Games

Something that's often overlooked as an aspect of gunplay is enemy reaction. Having an enemy hold his feet or arm when you shoot it, or turn into gibs when hit with something strong enough adds a lot to gunplay.

You forgot

>when you shoot an enemy and they visibly react to the shots/have limbs blown off

vanquish was good for this btw

>>15405081

What game lets me blow off limbs but the enemy is still alive and struggles on the ground or with one arm? Preferably human enemies.

>>15405125

Ninja Gaiden 2. You didn't say shooters.

>>15405116

>I like my games like hong kong movies.

Boy do I have a game for you.

>>15405142

>chastises people for not listing games

>doesn't list any games where it does

Plasma cutter comes to mind

>>15404581

I like the premise of your thread, OP. Here are my thoughts.

You're right in some respects, but I want to expand on your points with some additions.

>Tactility

This is first and foremost the defining point of good gunplay. Recoil, compensation, and aural/visual aspects of the weapons themselves. All need to be incredibly solid. If the weapon is based on a real-world design, it needs to look and behave like its real-world counterpart, this especially includes quirks, odd behaviors and trademark aspects of the weapon. This expectation will be there before you even pick it up, and it needs to be met as faithfully as possible.

>Reaction & Control

Tactility leads into this, and >>15404967 touches on it perfectly. When firing the weapon, it sets a psychological precedent immediately, for all parties. When you are intimately familiar with a weapon, you're already aware of its strengths and limitations, but is the enemy?

Reactions to all weapons need to be as fluid as possible, whether it's the enemy themselves or the surrounding environment. Again, everything needs to react as accordingly as possible: Wood needs to splinter, metal needs to welt, concrete needs to chip, fracture and break in a dynamic way.

Physically, enemies need to respond to inertia with knockback, collision, and weight. Everything needs to be meaty, because that is precisely what bodies are. Flesh, blood and bone need to not only be made aware of, but they need to suffer the proper damage that you'd expect.

Psychologically, enemies need to adapt to your weapon and its presence. Getting shot causes psychological shock. Getting fired upon causes stress and urgency. AI behaviors needs to adapt to a realistic set of training priorities, based on the professionalism of the outlet.

>Application & Limitations

Finally, this falls upon the type of game at hand. Whether it's an arcade shooter, or a fully autistic milsim, weapon tactility/psychological response are still at the forefront. The only difference between arcade shooters and milsims in reaction to a weapon, is a matter of sponginess.

I might have missed some points that I might not have realized in writing this, so I might add some posts. Or feel free to call me a faggot and to fuck off, that's cool too.

BF3/4 have the best gunplay of all military shooters.

>>15404581

Fluidity of movement and enemy reaction.

Movement has a rhythm of sorts to it, whether that be the footstep rhythm your character creates or the rate in which the weapon in your hand/Your view angle bobs in animation.

As for enemy reaction, a gun should look like it hurts and should stagger an enemy for a reasonable period of time if it doesn't outright kill them.

Apologies for the soundless webms, I made these years ago. But it's a good example of having enemies react to being shot.

>>15405213

You definitely hit a few big key points in gunplay, there is no real feeling of holding a gun if it doesn't have accurate recoil. If I ever play a game with a revolver or Deagle and it doesn't feel like my wrists are going to fly off from the weight and recoil of those guns, it doesn't feel accurate let alone realistic.

In terms of reaction and control that is something else I look into when playing a gun heavy game, Battlefield and the DICE engine in particular is one of my favorite examples of this. When I fire an RPG at a wall, I want to see chunks and bits for concrete fly everywhere, dust obscuring some vision. What I really like is the fact that there is no red vision but actually a blur of vision, or suppression as they call it. While I don't really agree with >>15405228 on BF4/BF3 having the BEST gunplay, they nailed the sound and structure of being in a battlefield, as they should because that is the name of the fucking game.

I remember playing the CoD: World at War a while ago and being shocked when I blasted a man's arm off with a trench shotgun, or seeing red mist when I hit someone with a grenade. Just the meatiness of being in a gunfight is good enough to keep me interested.

>remembering that the round in the chamber exists

>only double actions play a click sound if you press fire when empty

>models keep their finger off the trigger when not firing

>>15405125

Ain't human, but Binary Domain did this extremely well.

>If you shoot the legs off, they still crawl towards you or shoot you if they still have their weapon

>If you shoot the head, they go crazy and start targeting other robots.

Armored Core: Last Raven also sort of did this where you can destroy an enemy part and make them easier to deal with. Like if you destroy/severely damage their legs, they move a lot slower. The same thing can apply to you if you're not careful. But it's no shooter if that's what you were looking for.

>great sound design, fluid animations, and a feeling of weight when you shoot it.

>But are there other factors that weigh into this?

Feedback of your shots hitting the target.

Bad Company 2 embodies all of those.

>>15405312

>>15405328

>it was decent, but nowhere as good as bf3/4.

Don't make me prove you wrong.

>>15405314

BF3 and BF4 are sequels to BF2, not Bad Company 2. Not that makes any difference since everything that came after BF2 was dogshit. Don't waste your time.

>>15405328

>Worse even the solo would have been a good game if it wasn't laden with QTE. Hell even storywise it's decent!

>>15405125

Pic related isn't a shooter, but it lets you cut off other gladiators' arms and use them as weapons against them afterwards. Sometimes they pick up their own disembodied arm and use it as a weapon against you.

>>15404967

gotta second this, and add good knockback as well, it's always a bummer if you shoot an enemy at close range with anyway and they enter a death animation that keeps them standing when even a small caliber round would knock them on their ass. Spongy enemies ruin even the best guns because once enemies become sponges you aren't picking a gun based off what you enjoy the most or to tackle different scenarios, but to just get the best DPS.

Seeing numbers instead of blood, gore, and other feedback effects and animations is one of the worst sins you can commit regarding gunplay and generally a sign of laziness. Sure games like Borderlands might have 'A BAZILLION GUNS' but what's the point if all they do is make numbers appears faster? I never played The Division but a realistic setting using damage numbers and stats is really off putting as well.

>>15405134

seconding this because in NG2 and razors edge, removing an enemy limb doesn't immediately incapacitate them either, it makes them open for a flashy killing move but the enemy will continue to fight and become much more dangerous with the loss of the limb as they'll go for suicide attacks.

>>15407091

I watched a guy try his best to translate real-world numbers into in-game damage equivalents once. He took down all the numbers for the kilojoules of energy that would be transferred from the standard round used in each weapon type and converted it into the n-game equivalent simplified number (something like 50kj= 1dam). Math turned out well but the game was Fallout 4, so it was shit anyway