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2abc46 No.15337904
why aren't games compressed these days, why do they take up 50-100 gb are they in bed with hard-drive manufacturers?
this game is 96kb and it looks better than most games.
https://files.scene.org/view/demos/groups/farb-rausch/kkrieger-beta.zip
fc5304 No.15338248
>>15337904
Likely in a vain attempt to dissuade pirates from hoarding cracked with those bloated games sizes.
It's stupid but so are most decisions this bullshit industry comes up with these days.
7b13dc No.15338400
>>15337904
Nice crypto-marketing, OP.
People tend to blame uncompressed audio.
316cac No.15338407
Something something jews.
7fc746 No.15338458
>>15337904
Textures, sounds, models, etc. All these resources, in most cases, are stored as lossless which makes them take quite a lot space. On top of that modern games heavily rely on models to build levels as opposed to the old games that used basic geometry for that. You can store the audio and textures in lossy formats but then there will be a quality penalty, so what's point of—for example—having high-resolution textures then? You can also compress the assets but then you'll have to decompress them every time the game loads. Basically, it's a trade-off between the size and load times.
035fae No.15338492
>>15337904
Because with the advent of digital storage there's less need for optimizing things. Thus the problem gets handed off to the consumer end, where it stops being a "game needs to run as is off the disc/cart" thing (even most consoles these days have forced installs) to a "it's your problem for not having a big enough hard drive, goy" one. Also a mixture of excessively high visual and audio quality being considered a selling point with some PC ports/versions, and likely what >>15338248 says as well. Either way, the result is asinine levels of bloat. When a fucking audio patch alone is bigger than some multi disc PS1 games, there's a problem.
ca1533 No.15338625
>>15338400
>marketing
>for a freeware game
>for a game made as a programming challenge
>for a game that isn't even from this decade
Make the entire universe a favor and immolate yourself.
f90da5 No.15338636
Why bother optimizing, why bother making good games when goys buy whatever trash AAA studios shit out yearly anyway?
ca1533 No.15338652
>>15338458
You don't need uncompressed audio, you dumb cunt, and lossless compression is a thing.
cc8f77 No.15338668
>>15338458
I have an incomplete doom mod never released that I work on from time to time. Literally, not a selling point, actually has well over hundread hours worth of game play because I'm not a faggot who lies. It takes up 25 megabytes and even comes packaged with all the original doom levels. Has a leveling system and new guns/equipment soon to have a new difficulty that randomizes the monsters within the mod (more assets) and I don't see this mod getting bigger than 100 megabytes in size. Even if it ended up with over 1000 hours worth of gameplay (without restarting the game)
7b13dc No.15338674
>>15338625
>freeware game
>not wanting attention
bcf2c7 No.15338680
No idea but I've been using repack since the 90s and still do
All these 100-200gb+ games are insane
ca1533 No.15338691
>>15338674
Acting retarded stopped being funny more than 10 years ago, you cuckchan nigger.
7b13dc No.15338714
>>15338691
>Acting retarded stopped being funny more than 10 years ago, you cuckchan nigger.
<Acting retarded stopped being funny more than 10 years ago, you cuckchan nigger.
1bbb3f No.15338766
>>15338248
>Likely in a vain attempt to dissuade pirates from hoarding cracked with those bloated games sizes.
That argument was stupid 10 years or whenever it started to come up ago, I'm quite surprised that it stuck around for that long.
It's stupid because regular customers have to download the same amount, or usually more, since pirates actually put some effort into reducing the download size (without sacrificing one pixel of quality).
64a25d No.15338784
>>15337904
That looks like shit, OP
7fc746 No.15338803
>>15338652
Re-read the post, illiterate nigger. It's “stored as lossless”, not “stored as raw”.
>>15338668
>pics related
Nobody's discussing gameplay. And if you—like OP—seriously think that the first image looks more realistic than the second one, then I'm afraid you might need a surgery on either your eyes or brain (if not both).
59ea1f No.15338811
Optimization's a dead art.
02511b No.15338853
>>15338248
>Likely in a vain attempt to dissuade pirates from hoarding cracked with those bloated games sizes.
Well it worked!
I haven't bought a game for YEARS.
I haven't played a new game in YEARS.
>>15338458
>what are compressed containers
Let's take this a step further.
If a game is fast, you don't need high res textures. (Anything 1024x1024 or larger)
If you use motion blur, you can drop texture resolutions even more.
Film grain? More.
Dark areas? MOAR
Tiny objects?
MOAR
But now they insist that EVERY OBJECT must have 4K texture resolution.
100GB games are a direct result of "artists" controlling development, because SHINY is better.
You can easily drop the terrain texture resolution by more than half, and then optimize the shit out of them. Grain introduced by compression would actually improve the rock texturing.
a381da No.15338863
The game in OP's post extensively uses artist-controlled procedural generation to create everything from the textures to the enemy models to the world itself. It's completely different from a normal 3D artist's workflow and not at all practical or a useful use of an artist's time in any situation but a fun demo contest. Procedural methods do get used in specific areas of modern games, for instance procedural clouds and grass, what you might think of as an "effect."
As for why games are so big nowadays, if I had to guess it is the combination of 4K demanding higher res textures and the desire to fill the world with unique textures and detailed models. Where an older game might have used a few detailed textures repeatedly in creative ways (though often showing seams), a modern game might have tons of uniquely shaped and textures objects which, even if you bothered to share diffuse maps across, you would still need unique normal maps. All of that detail that isn't really necessary for the gameplay but adds to the spectacle, adds up into a LOT of data that can't magically be compressed or optimized away.
To a company making modern AAA games, an artist being able to easily and efficiently add detail to a scene is a good thing. They don't really care about the storage cost as long as the scene fits in memory, and they'd certainly rather that artist get onto detailing the next thing than dick around trying to save a megabyte here or there.
7fc746 No.15338870
>>15338853
>what are compressed containers
What are compressed containers?
7b13dc No.15338880
>>15338853
>>15338863
I hear artists often don't have much to do for some periods of time in the dev cycle, so it makes sense they'd go crazy with the textures.
a381da No.15338900
>>15338863
To give an example, imagine a few worn pillars in a temple. In an old game, the artists would probably model one temple and repeat it a bunch of times. If they wanted to get fancy, they might texture a few versions, for instance with some dirt or ivy climbing up the pillar. Then they could alter the texture coordinates on each pillar differently, so one has ivy here or there and so on.
In a new game, the artist would again start with a pillar, but this time it would be modeled at a much higher polygon detail than intended to be used in game. The artist would place the pillars into the world, and then begin adding unique details to each. They could use solid modeling to take chunks out here and there, adding cracks, directly painting on textures, and so on. Finally, they reduce the polygon detail, and perform a normal map baking step, "baking" the smoothness and detail of the high poly model onto a unique normal map texture to be used on the lower poly model in game.
In the end you have some much more detailed and different pillars in this new game than the old one, and the process was less involved and more intuitive for the artist. But that unique detail requires MUCH more unique data that can't magically be processed away; there are limits to what general purpose compression can do. Now imagine an entire game world created that way and you start to see how AAA games can balloon to the sizes they do.
ca1533 No.15338905
>>15338853
>100GB games are a direct result of "artists" controlling development
Considering they're the only ones left with any talent in big development I'd say that makes sense.
0f8631 No.15338925
>>15338458
>Basically, it's a trade-off between the size and load times.
Untrue. Decompressing PNGs is probably faster than loading TGAs with double the size. Loading big things can take longer than loading something smaller and decompressing it. This is also true for SSDs which have even less space per shekel.
* sound should be compressed in Opus (FLAC takes too long to decompress so it's not an option)
* textures should be compressed in any fucking compressed format. Why TGA? (Saw that when unpacking a UE4 container)
* models shouldn't use polys where they aren't visible. A FLAT SURFACE WITH THOUSANDS OF POLYS IS STILL A FUCKING RECTANGLE!
You guys still remember Bethesda's great texture packs, right?
https://store.steampowered.com/app/540810/Fallout_4__High_Resolution_Texture_Pack/
>58 GB
And the original Skyrim was ~8GB with DLCs if remember correctly
The rerelease had upskaled textures with shitty filters applied which made them look even worse for. ~12GB
Crap games are large
Witcher 3 had good graphics but was smaller than a lot of other games. So how did they do that?
* reusing textures. Don't use textures just ONCE. If you have a wood texture you can apply it to many things without file size increase or higher system requirements
* small textures. That's right. If the textures are good and don't have abnormalities you can't see them repeating and can make them smaller in the world. Looks good in the game and doesn't need much hardware or file size.
Using those seemingly "magic" recipes you CAN MAKE SMALL GAMES WHICH LOOK GOOD.
0f8631 No.15338928
134eab No.15338930
Filling the ROM/CD/whatever with bloat to make piracy harder is one of the oldest anti-piracy methods. So that might be one reason and laziness the other.
0f8631 No.15338942
>>15338930
>to make piracy harder
How? If it fits on the CD you can still just copy it onto another!
f4f299 No.15338974
Because I'd rather download 100 gigs once, rather than wait 10 minutes for shit to load or to have compressed shitty assets.
134eab No.15338988
>>15338942
I'm the wrong person to ask that since I can't remember how it went exactly. I think when CD was new technology the customer burners had some size limit or something and CD content above that required industry hardware to copy. So video game developers filled the CD with bloat just to reach that limit. Still, that's irrelevant because they used the same method during the floppy disk time already and I'm sure even with DVDs and Blurays.
You see, it doesn't even need to prevent piracy 100%, just discourage it and make it slightly harder. Like, a large torrent file takes longer to download etc. These people are ready to shoot themselves in the foot just to make the life of a pirate slightly less comfortable.
0f8631 No.15338991
>>15338974
Are you retarded?
LOADING SMALL FILES AND DECOMPRESSING THEM IS FASTER THAN LOADING BIG FILES.
Smaller compressed textures mean less loading time and if they are compressed in a format your graphic card understands it means even faster graphics because the graphics card which is good at it can decompress it on the fly.
f4f299 No.15338998
>>15338991
What about loading small UNCOMPRESSED files huh?
Waiting for loading each time game loads adds up, especially if the game is long and you play it for weeks or months.
0f8631 No.15339019
>>15338988 (checked)
Games are digitally distributed now otherwise you'd need 10 DVDs because no one uses BluRay TM on a PC.
Last real DVD boxes had 6 DVDs or more.
Piracy is just a matter of some person on the planet modifying the executable and uploading the whole thing to the internet with a comfy free installer and other people downloading, installing and playing that.
There is nothing discouraging it.
Download times are a lot faster than from steam servers because Valve is really greedy when it comes to spending some shekels on their servers.
>>15338998
I told you that GPU supported compression like DXT gets decompressed on the fly by the GPU adding ZERO load time. You can also progressively load textures. That way you can have the quality stuff loading while you're already playing.
64a25d No.15339023
>>15338930
>Filling the ROM/CD/whatever with bloat to make piracy harder is one of the oldest anti-piracy methods
[citation needed]
45bb29 No.15339025
It's a combination of one time assets, oversized noise pass assets, and iirc including ALL localized audio instead of just local audio.
f4f299 No.15339033
>>15339019
Are you talking about streaming shit? Oh yeah I've seen games doing that - Rage, Warframe, some other games. It looks HORRIBLE, you see TRASH before it loads up and looks pretty, but it's already fucking ruined.
I hate this technology, I hope it dies in flames.
0f8631 No.15339048
>>15339033
>you see TRASH before it loads up and looks pretty
That's because at the moment they still use separate textures for different quality settings.
With a progressive texture format that would be a lot more seamless and you wouldn't have to look at ugly 4x4 textures.
Hope that becomes a reality one day.
0f8631 No.15339050
>>15339033 (checked)
Battlefield 3 used it too.
e6557f No.15339055
>>15339033
This tech will never go away unless they do something level design wise like in the old games.
7fc746 No.15339068
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15338925
Again, it's not the type of compression I was talking about. Obviously, decompressing (decoding) a video encoded with VP9 is much faster than decompressing a raw video stored inside an archive compressed with ZPAQ at maximum settings. I was talking about stuff like Valve's VPK containers they use in all Source games.
Most games—until the generalization of engines thanks to Unity and Unreal—used their own texture formats optimized for their needs. There was no standard, and there is no to this day. Both formats are old as fuck and shit. I had some hope for FLIF but apparently AV1 outperforms it, so we'll have to wait and see. But these are just images. FLAC still sucks in terms of the file size: long audio will get smaller but short audio will get bigger. And Opus is not predictable enough, in my experience. And there's no compression format suited for models at all! Google tried something with Draco but I have no idea if it's good or not, or what happened to it at all.
>>15338991
>LOADING SMALL FILES AND DECOMPRESSING THEM IS FASTER THAN LOADING BIG FILES.
That's an overgeneralization. Reading from disk many times instead of one is slower. You also mention hardware support which is a whole other issue beyond the developers' reach.
c2e374 No.15339072
>>15337904
This isn’t something you needed to ask human beings. You didn’t need to kill a thread and waste our time for this. You’re supposed to be intelligent enough to figure it out on your own. Fuck off.
0f8631 No.15339236
>>15339068
>AV1 outperforms it
No. The AV1 measurements are for videos and photos with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling which only contain half the information.
Opus is the best lossy audio compression to this date and is fast.
There is nothing better for any purpose.
>no compression format suited for models
Don't need compression. Removing polys from flat surfaces would make things faster already.
>That's an overgeneralization
Not really. The file size decrease is significant compared to the time it takes to decompress.
I ripped this image from the Tomb Raider DOX loading screen.
You can test it and will see that the loading time decrease for half the file size is acceptable.
The original is "Sans_titre456.tga" with the file size of 14.490
It's just uncompressed data so I think the comparision with an uncompressed BMP is fair.
0f8631 No.15339243
0f8631 No.15339248
>>15339236
*tracker formats for retro games are also an option for audio instead of Opus
Those are obviously smaller.
7fc746 No.15339260
>>15339236
>Don't need compression. Removing polys from flat surfaces would make things faster already.
134eab No.15339261
>>15339019
Just because it isn't very effective in practice and is more harmful to the devs themselves and the honest customers than to the pirates doesn't mean they don't do it anyway. Most anti-piracy methods are ineffective as fuck. Bloated software is one of them and just because it doesn't make sense to you it very much makes sense to some incompetent manager with a "brilliant" idea. Just trust me. Don't try to rationalize it.
0f8631 No.15339279
>>15339261
Maybe you're right.
>>15339260
Wouldn't removing lot's of garbage polys from the game speed things up?
By not using tessellation and putting the polys where they belong in the first place things could be A LOT FASTER.
7fc746 No.15339298
>>15339279
No, I doubt that there's no need for compression and JUST removing polys is enough.
I'm pretty sure even some basic deduplication of some values here and there would already make a difference, not mentioning some compression algorithm
0f8631 No.15339356
>>15339298
You are right.
What I'm saying is that it would already be a start if they stopped throwing garbage polys at everything.
Not that it has to end there.
I think compression of models would be great too.
f51a6d No.15339858
>>15339279
>tessellation
Attually this could speed up performance. But almost no modern game use tessellation for anything except terrain.
This here for example this very high poly Lara model from the reboot game was ripped of the xbox360.
0f8631 No.15339900
>>15339858
It seems to depend on usage.
0b4092 No.15339972
>>15338905
What talents besides being faggots who don't know how to make a game for shit but got into it because of their daddy's connections?
0df7a5 No.15340008
1) License costs for audio codecs, they ship uncompressed audio because it costs them less
2) Following from 1) Uncompressed audio requires less resources to play, an artifact from everything needing to play on a 360 a couple of years ago
3) Buttfucks pirates vs steam, everyone's an ungenerous seeder
What I really don't understand is why in the fuck steam doesn't just give you only your language audio, you get like all of fucking Europe when you only want English, it costs them money to push more bits, so why? Condition from publishers?
a3fc79 No.15340026
Oh god, this thread again, and the same tech demo used as an example. The demo is such a small size because it creates all the assets procedurally during loading, storing the entire game in memory, so while the game only takes up 96kb on the hard drive, it takes up MUCH more on memory, and takes a shit ton of time to load, not to mention the actualy ways to create the art assets are extremely limited. An awful trade-off, if an interesting challenge.
Games take up too much space nowadays and there's ways to mitigate that but this thread is full of retarded ideas guy niggers who don't know shit but still pretend to be experts. The thing about piracy is probably right though.
0f8631 No.15340046
>>15340008
>License costs for audio codecs, they ship uncompressed audio because it costs them less
>License costs for audio codecs
OPUS BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF ALL OTHER CODECS ALREADY BACK IN 2012 AND REQUIRES LESS RESOURCES THAN ALL OTHERS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_(audio_format)
You seem a bit left behind on this.
No need to discuss audio compression ever again.
>>15340026
We know that without Wikipedia too. Just ignore OP. He's ALWAYS a faggot.
a3fc79 No.15340105
>>15338930
>>15338988
Retard, it's to make loading faster, the outer rings of a disc travel more distance at the same RPM, so you fill the inner chunk of the cd/dvd with empty data to push the important stuff to the edge. This was used heavily during the PS1 era.
>>15338925
Mesh density doesn't affect hard drive space that much, especially since we use tessellation on the gpu, only thing that makes games bigger related to tesselation is having to store relief maps.
>>15338900
Wrong, most games just make generic small assets like a set of bricks/planks etc, and arrange them into more complex objects, usually procedurally with something like Houdini. Pic related. It still takes more hard drive space than reusing big assets but it's nowhere as extreme as what you proposed.
7948c8 No.15340149
>>15340105
>>15340105
howdy niggers!
NIGGERS KURWA
134eab No.15340167
>>15340105
Are you saying they never filled a disc with bloat as a method of anti-piracy?
a3fc79 No.15340219
>>15339858
>almost no modern game use tessellation for anything except terrain
I'm struggling to come up with modern examples of AAA games that DON'T use tesselation on characters. I'm sure there's plenty but most do use tesselation fairly heavily.
>>15340167
I'm sure someone out there was retarded enough to think that's a good idea, but I don't think most publishers actually thought that would change anything, and most devs did just do it for loading times.
It was usually empty data but some devs did put secret shit inside of there. Tiger Woods 99 had to get pulled off shelves because the devs put a South Park episode where the dummy data was supposed to be.
7948c8 No.15340229
>>15340167
are you a huge nigger cuck who cant into litterally anything since your heads filled with bloat to prevent passing your shit fuck genes on?
FAGGOT!
c7e454 No.15340235
>>15338248
My internet's fairly middle of the road. The interesting thing is that I can download and install a game faster from the Pirate Bay than I can from any official marketplaces. That argument is retarded.
It's the same reason as why games are unoptimized - laziness. "Just get a better PC!" is a common argument from them.
f3b7b5 No.15340302
Because "DUDE JUST LIKE GET ANOTHER HARD DRIVE LMAO". That was the reason someone used when he was confused about people bitching that the Spyro remake trilogy would have had you install 40GB for tne other 2 games.
c7e454 No.15340332
>>15340302
It pisses me off when I can store every single game ever made up to the GBA for handhelds and the PS1 generation for consoles, and still have them take up less room than the average modern game.
134eab No.15340439
>>15340219
It was quite common practice with PC games. They added dummy file that tricked certain CD burning software to think the CD had a higher filesize than it actually did. Thus when you tried to burn them it just gave you an error message. Of course it didn't take long for the CD burning software to develop enough to not get fooled by that but it's just one example how dummy files have been used as a method of anti-piracy. As far as I know, it's one of the oldest tricks in the books and was already used with floppy disks etc for different reasons but basic princible is the same, that is, filling the rom with bloat.
Most anti-piracy software is fucking retarded. Just because I suggest something that sounds stupid as fuck doesn't mean I'm being silly but rather that the industry is being silly.
3ae29a No.15340558
>>15337904
Technology keeps advancing on leaps and not listening to the complains of the poor and the old.
Theoretically it is faster to download uncompressed games than it is to decompress them.
Compressed games are hard capped by the power of your CPU and the optimizations of your decompressor software, like multicore support and what not.
Meanwhile uncompressed games are written to disk as fast as hardware allows. That means that with a 10 gigabit connection you can download a 100GB game in 82 seconds and it will be ready to play as opposed to waiting several hours for it to decompress and install.
>>15338248
You must be fucking retarded, pirates are known for hoarding all kinds of shit, you would always expect a pirate to have more storage capacity than your average PC user since they love to download all kinds of stuff, because it's free.
People that feel this is a threat to their ability to pirate are no doubt poor as fuck, just get a bigger/more drive(s), adapt or die, the games are still free.
45a0aa No.15340567
>>15339025
Companies need to stop catering to shithole countries. If you don't know English or Japanese, you don't get to play video games.
Also, everyone makes fun of graphicsfags, and rightly so, but not enough attention is paid to audiophiles, the biggest retards on the planet. PS1 games had CD quality audio. Games like Tony Hawk and Twisted Metal are full of licensed soundtracks, where half the appeal of the game is the music, and it sounds great. Yet those entire games take up like 300mb each. Yet I hear that audio is one of the major reasons modern games take up at least 100 times as much space. Who gives a shit? After the Sega CD, returns on improved sound quality diminished so hard that it's practically impossible to tell the difference. People who say they can tell are the equivalent of wine tasters pretending they can tell the difference between wines from different regions. It's a complete scam.
45a0aa No.15340577
>>15340558
Why would you call him retarded for simply pointing out a retarded practice and calling it retarded? You're retarded.
f51a6d No.15340857
>>15340219
>I'm sure there's plenty but most do use tesselation fairly heavily.
I said already most games set tessellation just on terrains, trees and buildings very very high.
Player models, verhicle models, enemy models and npc models aren't getting the tessellated treatment and their aren't getting lower poly even on lower graphic settings. They are loaded full poly and this can get very irrating in open world games when suddenly a npc pop in front to you.
Splinter Cell:Blacklist is the only game which I know with visible phong tessellation you can turn off and on.
>>15339900
>It seems to depend on usage.
Yeah
a3fc79 No.15340943
>>15340857
I believe Crysis 3, Deus Ex Human revolution (and mankind divided), Metro Last Light (and 2033), Doom 2016 and Witcher 3 all use tesselation for character models and various environment objects, including vehicles. From what I gather, though, they just subdivide the entire model and are capped to a maximum tesselation factor, instead of adding the detail adaptively to parts of the model based on screen coverage, except maybe for CryEngine 3 games. Actually, we've been seeing tessellation on vehicles even in some last gen in games like Gran Turismo. I don't really see why you would only use it for static terrain and not characters, where it would benefit games the most.
Most games still use the high quality models up close even on lower settings, and just change the distance where it swaps to a lower poly version.
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=-PvJa-KFO30
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=GQSDL8Lk45M
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=Gmp-WbfF8b8
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=99_IfX3PVyE
a3fc79 No.15340958
>>15340439
But that doesn't bloat the disc's actual size, it just tricks the burner into thinking it does. Without this measure they would still use dummy data to speed up loading.
f51a6d No.15341183
>>15340943
>Gran Turismo
GT was always a big push mark tech for sony consoles.
Thanks for the links.
121a63 No.15341242
>>15338803
the first pic does look more realistic though
41867e No.15341281
i believe heavy usage of tessellation is unnecessary because of how advanced our pipelines for creating materials are but there should always be atleast very few basic layers covering all so that gpu could take advantage of it
Other than that fuck it
8f628c No.15343681
>>15337904
The game is 96kb because it generates textures, audio and shaders by itself. Now imagine this on an AAA scale, waiting 60 minutes every time you start the game for it to generate all assets from scratch. Storage is cheap nowadays, there's no need to watch the unless you have to fit it into certain limitations.
That being said, Forza 7 is 94+GB on PC. Gotta get those high quality models and sounds.
62844a No.15344421
>>15338766
>It's stupid because regular customers have to download the same amount,
The argument appeared at a time where games were still sold on discs and bandwith was reliably garbage.
7259f8 No.15344440
>>15340558
>pirates are known for hoarding all kinds of shit
I know a pirate IRL who has 10 TB of disk space that he uses to hoard games and mods for those games.
He's my room mate
b14ade No.15344448
>>15344440
At least you get shit easy.
afdec0 No.15344457
>>15344440
Yea, because those things might not be there tomorrow. With the current state of (((affairs))) in the gaming industry with Bethesda shutting down mod after mod, and Nintendo going after ROM databases and causing entire sites to stop supplying ROMs from every platform sometimes backing everything up is a good idea.
80b82e No.15344470
>>15344457
>emuparadise
Don't worry. Same already happend to coolrom and all the others.
Somebody got all that shit saved for you.
And he'll upload it all
80b82e No.15344480
>>15344457
Also it's all still available over torrents. Just saying.
afdec0 No.15344495
>>15344480
>Pirates hoard everything
>I point out that it's because shit keeps getting taken down
>You tell me I can still torrent it
In other news: the sky appears to be blue!
0e53e2 No.15344546
>>15337904
Decompression takes time, which will either show up as increased loading times or stutters during the game. More fundamentally though, procedural assets are a pain in the ass to author and there aren't any proper toolsets to do it save some specialized middleware niches like SpeedTree.
e224a2 No.15344559
because you're a fucking poorfag OP.
even a toaster have 1 TB of hardrive today.
6e52df No.15344673
>>15338870
CABs, bundles, bsps, mkv, mp4, mp3, etc.
A zip is a container file, and it can be uncompressed.
We have LZMA!
There is no reason not to compress shit.
60f84c No.15344729
>>15344673
This. Games should be distributed as .7z archives and 7-zip should be bundled with them. It's cross-platform and open-source so there's no reason at all not to.
646aea No.15344735
4b42a6 No.15344760
>>15337904
>why aren't games compressed these days, why do they take up 50-100 gb are they in bed with hard-drive manufacturers?
1. devs aren't as crafty as before, they no longer optimize shit and just jam all their audio and textures in it
2. instead of spending a whole lot of time finding ways to compress all their shit (which means they have to rush a working release version beforehand), they spend it on: bug fixing, testing, patching the game
3. they realize that most people just buy via steam/gog/uplay now
4. HD space has rarely ever been a source of complaint. any person who plays games simply replace their HD/delete old games before even thinking of complaining about how big the game is.
5134e0 No.15345074
>>15338925 (and the rest of 0f8631's posts) is retarded (aside from his points about mesh density and tracker formats) and following his advice will lead to games with awful performance with only a minimal size reduction compared to a sanely-developed game.
If you look at any game's files, you'll notice that even the old stuff with small-ish filesizes have loads of uncompressed audio for the sound effects. Uncompressed audio is much faster for the CPU to load and unload, play back, and adjust in realtime than compressed audio, so when you start playing multiple SFX at once with effects like reverb the performance savings quickly add up. Compressed audio is reserved for dialogue, longer background noises, and music because there's rarely more than one or two of these playing at once so any performance savings wouldn't be worth the size increase. Some newer games are ditching this trend by making everything uncompressed audio: this is retarded and bloats up the filesize much faster than wisely mixing the two.
As for textures, converting images files to GPU textures isn't instantaneous and decompressing images before conversion eats up more time and CPU overhead. This is why textures should be stored in dedicated texture formats (there's lossy and lossless texture formats, both optimised for GPU performance) instead of converting them from image files on the fly.
>>15338991
>LOADING SMALL FILES AND DECOMPRESSING THEM IS FASTER THAN LOADING BIG FILES.
Unless the big file is fucking huge and the small file is very small, you're full of shit and even in cases where you are right decompression still has more CPU overhead. This might sound like nitpicking, but it quickly becomes a big issue when you're loading, unloading, and adjusting multiple audio files at once.
>>15340046
>OPUS BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF ALL OTHER CODECS ALREADY BACK IN 2012 AND REQUIRES LESS RESOURCES THAN ALL OTHERS
Nah man, Opus is great shit but last I checked it requires more CPU resources to decode than Vorbis. Most developers worth their salt use Vorbis in .ogg containers anytime they need compressed audio in their vidya.
dc89f8 No.15345078
>>15337904
To fight Piracy.
>100GB game will take days to download on most internet, compared to a 10GB game that will take an hour tops
8c9ce5 No.15345102
Oh its this thread again. Kkrieger sucks and is ugly as shit you're just an easily impressed luddite who doesn't know shit about how games work.
afdec0 No.15346351
>>15345078
Are you just trolling at this point? This has been debunked numerous times throughout the thread. The person who actually does the cracking and uploads it to torrent sites will always trim excess data and compress it for easier download. If what you're saying is true then their anti-piracy method would only make it harder on legitimate customers, actually that sounds like something they would do so you're probably right…
4b42a6 No.15347232
>>15345078
>>15346351
It's kind of a flawed argument.
Even way back, when internet speeds weren't so fast, pirates still pirate.
They'd just leave their torrent programs running for weeks and months just to complete a torrent and seeding other torrents in the process.
45a0aa No.15347279
>>15344760
>instead of spending a whole lot of time finding ways to compress all their shit (which means they have to rush a working release version beforehand), they spend it on: bug fixing, testing, patching the game
>they spend (time) on: bug fixing, testing, patching the game
Yeah right.
2abc46 No.15348219
>>15339072
>hur dur asking questions is wrong
>let me go into this thread about dicks now this is a thread!
Fuck off retard
Kkrieger is a 200mb demo that was never completed because it was for a competition and the devs never focused on gameplay, the game was compressed to 96kb. there is absolutely no reason why modern games can't do the same thing. and don't tell me hur dur its loading times, modern graphics cards are built to decompress compression files on the fly.
You load a texture before you need it so that when you need the next its already there.
4b42a6 No.15353773
>>15347279
You don't understand.
I didn't say the game will be fixed or not buggy when it's released.
I only said that they spend time bug fixing, testing and patching the game as much as they could.
a79b67 No.15353875
>>15340567
>Companies need to stop catering to shithole countries. If you don't know English or Japanese, you don't get to play video games.
So you want to pay $120 for new video games?
016c68 No.15358499
>>15338458
You have no idea what you're talking about, 99% of games use hardware compression on their textures (DXT) which can be read directly into memory nearly the same as uncompressed textures, and uncompressed audio is useful but not for quality reasons. Noone has audio cards so audio must always be decompressed by the CPU, however this isn't an issue for long audio files like music tracks since they are predictable and not often called. Its just the short, unpredictable sounds like the sound of every weapon firing that should be uncompressed so it can be loaded faster. A typical game has the vast majority of its audio size in voice, music, and ambient background sounds so the uncompressed effects don't add up to much.
016c68 No.15358572
>>15340105
>Wrong, most games just make generic small assets like a set of bricks/planks etc, and arrange them into more complex objects
Wrong, many modern games are heavily limited by drawcalls (unless they are DX12/Vulkan) so they create "precombines" of scene objects to load that are a bunch of models combined into one (preferably with a texture atlas) to reduce draw calls. Morrowind is a good example of how limiting draw calls are since its a very old game with lots of clutter which doesn't do this so the performance is terrible despite how simple the models/textures are. The reason Fallout 4 had such a high file size wasn't just because of the OVER TEN THOUSAND VOICED IMMERSIVE NAMES but more because it was Bethesda's first game to use precombines.
51342e No.15359083
Is anyone in this thread an actually programmer, or 3D modeler?
26a901 No.15359266
Video game levels are now made by buying pre modeled assets off a webstore.
These models are not designed efficiently and sometimes are half hazzardly placed in ways that unseen polygons are wasting space. Games like Dark Souls gets credit for level design, but honestly as the games progressed the lazy copy and paste level design started to become more and more apparent.
So many goddamn statues.
b5d4c2 No.15364257
AAA game developers are in cahoots with hardware developers. its all a big joke. in addition to making piracy more of a hassle it encourages peolpe to buy big ass hard drives, especially external drives as gaming laptops become more popular
65c42c No.15364371
5a7b9d No.15364385
>and it looks better than most games.
That looks like Doom 3.
7b13dc No.15364389
>>15359083
Yes, but I've never worked on gamedev and know shit-all about package compression practices.
ec3e94 No.15364879
>>15338925
>TGA -vs- PNG
Why are TGAs still used?
For example, (and depending on the image), I can save a 1024x1024 image as a PNG and it will be about 1MB, and then save exactly the same 1024x1024 image as a TGA and it's about 4MB.
What advantage does TGA have over PNG, if any?
If it's a retarded question this captcha I just got has let me know.
7b13dc No.15364908
>>15364879
I don't know, but I do 3d animation and in 3ds max, exporting TGA's offer some nifty options, like 32 bit color and non-premultiplied alpha, none of which should be relevant to textures. I don't know if TGA is faster to decompress.
5beacf No.15364968
>>15364879
Direct access to portions of an image using strictly predictable addresses, though block-level access through address translation afforded by most compression formats is acceptable for most such applications. This is similar to the reason why less efficient "intra-frame" video compression is necessary for some applications.
5bf61a No.15365009
>>15364968
Most games just load the textures directly into memory though
e392e7 No.15365010
>>15364879
tga's not used anymore in anything I'm familiar with except in the pipeline between tools as it's very flexible. The filenames in a packed game might reflect the source data and not the content. They might have tga extensions but be dds format. Same goes for 'wav" music which will often actually be xwma. Headers are often stripped as well but they have distinctive patterns if you're used to RE.
5beacf No.15365032
>>15365009
Those are most often compressed, too, since Savage introduced ASICs to directly decompress textures in VRAM, saving both memory and bus throughput.
d3f200 No.15371213
>>15338853
>>15344673
Both me.
>>15359083
Yes.
You've probably used one of my optimized texture packs.
ff5ee7 No.15371236
>>15337904
I'm not that surprised by the texture/polygons/sounds generation algorithms used here, I'm mostly surprised by the game engine being able to fit alongside everything else in such tight space. Unlike textures and sounds, you can't just use a function to generate the specific code. How did they do that?
230ce6 No.15382473
Hardware increased while programming jobs became less specialized and outsourced. Programmers don't try because they don't have to. Back in the day console/PC developers had to squeeze all they could from the hardware and it was standard practice. You see it everywhere look how absolutely bloated your average website is with 100 scripts running and you need 1ghz/512MB just to load a page. Pathetic.
45a0aa No.15382496
>>15353875
Complete non-sequitur. I'm pretty sure you're trying to imply those subhumans buying the game keeps it cheaper, but they don't buy the game. They pirate more than anyone.