/v/ - Video Games

>>15305498

No, not really.

>>15305498

Compare the circle strafing and jumping of Quake to any modern FPS and it's clear that what you say is not only true but has been true for at least 18 years. Its all because modern FPS are designed primarily for consoles.

People seem to think dynamic movement means "hold a button and your static speed increases". Pretty sad stuff.

>>15305498

Yeah, I agree. movement in FPS games hasn't really been touched upon other than in games like Titanfall 2 or Shadow Warrior.

>>15305526

Jumping in fps have been shit for years.

>>15305498

Not so much. Doom Eternal allows a lot more movement than classic Doom. It depends on what the devs want, realism or arcade movement. Even back then, there were a lot of FPS games that focused on realism too, they're just much less popular nowadays than Quake because the average brainlet has little attention span.

>>15305563

but even Titanfall and Shadow Warrior had nerfed movmenet. It was all about the meme dodge button and computer assisted parkour. When will a game restore the freedome of movement players had in Quake 3? With gyro controls modern gamepads really have less and less of an excuse for this shit game designe and level design.

Aiming in general has been pretty terrible for a while, since they now have to be made with a fucking controller in mind. Movement itself has been ploddy and heavy for, which is something that infuriated me about nuDoom, almost more than anything else in it.

>>15305618

>Doom Eternal allows a lot more movement

It just as some dashing added.

>>15305686

Very clunky dashing too.

>dash

>travel a fixed distance and completely decelerate the moment it finishes

>>15305686

And jumping, grabbing ledges, grappling hook.

>>15305717

>completely decelerate the moment it finishes

If it didn't, the player would be too overpowered.

>>15306058

>Watching the nuDoom reveal trailer with its SHITTY FUCKING SLOW CONSOLE CAMERA PANS was god-awful and hurt my soul.

Even with the Mouse and Keyboard gameplay it still looked clunky.

>>15306079

Yeah, they need to speed that shit up. Fuck Bethesda.

>>15306083

Fucking Destiny 2 is faster and that game is a total shitshow.

>>15306083

The first nu-dood looked okay when played by non-retards. It's really the enemy limit that holds it back in this gameplay. Haven't actually played it, so I can't say if that's really what it's like.

>>15306118

>player movement in games like Borderlands 2 and Halo 3 is excellent.

Fucking what?

>>15306153

>Killzone 2

The heavy guns were great.

>>15306273

The normal speed of NuDoom was fucking awful and it killed gameplay.

>>15305652

>When will a game restore the freedome of movement players had in Quake 3

>Quake 3

>no airstrafe

>less movement mechanics than other Quake games

Why do you fags always pick Quake 3 as the example?

>>15306230

>killzone 2 multiplayer

>it's Radec Academy all day long baby

>everyone is running shotguns

>if one shotgun pellet wings you in the head, you die instantly regardless of range

>had full bot match support

That takes me back.

Also, I agree about Destiny and Destiny 2, they have great gameplay and great weapon design, but it's a real shame that everything else is so shit and laden with jewry. And it's a shame we'll never play the Destiny that Bungie actually wanted to make

>>15306797

>population injection

Anon…I…

they shut down KZ2/3 multiplayer servers 5 months ago

>>15305498

It has to do with how Unreal Engine handles movement (since most games are on UE).

It always felt like in Quake-derived engines the player just moves from point A to point B while in the Unreal family there's a force being applied to the player to move him.

>>15306706

Last time I checked Quake 3/Live was one of the last FPS with the same movement as Quake 1-2. Those games are essentially the minimum standard for what is considered good controls. I imagine "air stifing" is some shit form Source Engine games which honestly I am not very familiar with.

>>15306840

strafing*

>>15306230

I always liked the Helghast. Their motivations in 1 & 2 were pretty reasonable. Sadly they became Saturday morning cartoon villains from that point onwards. Also, I fucking hate Rico. He was annoying, completely unlikible in any sense whatsoever, is made out to be a badass commando but at the same times fails at it because he's just an ass in general.

All source engine FPS games have shitty and stiff movement.

>>15306840

Nah, air-strafing in Source works almost the same as in Quake 3 since it's a Quake-derived engine. Obviously Valve tried to battle this for the sake of realism but it's only noticeable in the post-2010 games. Though even in L4D(2), Portal 2 and CS:GO people somehow manage to air-strafe and bunny-hop, just look up videos on YouTube. In HL2 and its family the movement remains pretty uncrippled for the most part, just watch all the 3.5 autists who to this day play HL2:DM competitively.

>>15306900

then what is "air-strafing" is it a UE thing? Are you talking about Strafe-jumping because that is without a doubt a part of Quake 3.

>>15306915

>CRRRRIK psssh

>yeap quake 3 was a good game

>>15306930

>overwatch

>paladins

>gaylo

fuck off, you retarded console peasant

>>15306915

Air-strafing is being able to control the movement while mid-air to a certain degree (which is definitely not a “UE thing”).

Strafe-jumping is when you start the first jump with a 90° turn and then continue jumping while maneuvering left and right.

Bunny-hopping in some contexts (e.g. the CS family) means the same as strafe-jumping but in games like Quake 1 and Painkiller (yeah, completely different engine) you can just continuously jump (like a bunny).

I don't consider any of these as “movement mechanics” though because they were not intentional.

>>15306948

John Carmack debunked this on Twitter a few years ago.

>>15305530

Honestly movement that just raises and maintains the direction of speed vector after you change direction would already have been 10 times better than modern FPS.

Because modern FPS are modern mil shooters and not bing Bing wahoo tournament shooties

I really miss first person shooters tilting the camera when strafing, it made it feel so smooth and slick.

>>15306871

I don't why they made him so unlikable. He's the quintessential thug nigger. Maybe as a counterpart to the more calm and collected Sev?

>>15306948

It's a creepypasta, dummy.

>>15306952

You got eyeballs for a reason buddy, don't use them to pick out just the things that make you cry.

>>15306273

OG doom was retarded fast, it was also made for 20 fps slideshows on contemporary hardware. It wasn't actually meant to be as fast as you can run it on 200fps modern ports. Nu-doom is more like what it was meant to be.

>>15306118

Halo 3 movement was pretty bad, largely because of the low framerate. they were really pushing the 360 hard already then. in reach it just became unbearable.

Halo 2 invented console FOV, before then, console shooters, and even halo 1 had a decent FOV.

I like the games but I gotta admit they started some unfortunate trends.

>>15306058

>SHITTY FUCKING SLOW CONSOLE CAMERA PANS

are you retarded? that has nothing to do with consoles, and everything to do with E3. it's the first time anyone has ever seen anything from the game, if they just went balls to the wall action from the first second you'd be completely disoriented. the audience needs some time to see the graphics and animations, so it starts slow. they slowly ramp the speed up over the course of the demo, ending with the hell demo, where they do go all out.

FEAR was slow, but it felt good. The camera shift while walking felt appropriate, leaning felt appropriate, everything just felt real and not like a camera on a tripod being pulled around the room on wheels.

>>15306756

>>15306797

Killzone 2's MP was fucking great I miss it dearly.

>I agree about Destiny and Destiny 2, they have great gameplay and great weapon design

The actual gunplay and weapons are all great but Jesus is Destiny cucked, Bungie fucked up so hard with Destiny.

>>15305498

> agree with my opinion, the thread

But seriously, I do agree. Even Dying Light, the zombie fan's Mirror's Edge, had this issue. Everything kinda just felt snappy, not eased or even fluid. With movement at least, I thought the combat was a different story.

>>15306982

Play Reach Firefight and do this:

Move speed 200%

Jump height 115%

Gravity 200%

Those settings are how I imagine a Spartan should move in Halo. Drfinitely adds a whole lot of options for how to use horizontal and vertical movement (for one, longer distance jumps become possible). You jump high, but that gravity will set you straight if you think you're god.

>>15306871

Jesus fucking Christ did I want to hang Rico

>Final boss Fight with Radec

>Full of Radec's best men who all want your fucking blood

>Rico runs out like a fucking coon but you have to save his ass since you need some support since Radec's men are overwhelming

>Get fucking gang raped the moment you step out to bring him up

God did I hate that nigger Rico but Killzone 2 was FPS that didn't hold your hand and told you to get fucked if you didn't learn how to play it well.

>>15306900

VQ3 has next to no aircontrol.

>>15307029

>Bungie fucked up so hard with Destiny.

Wouldn't I know it.

t.owner of Destiny 2

it was 12$ and I got it on accident

>>15307055

I actually have played 1&2 at a friend's house and what fucking blows my mind is how Destiny 2 was even worse then 1 so much so that they have to make a new DLC just to bring it where 1 was. How do you fuck up that badly?

>>15306948

>They've achieved something we couldn't. World Peace.

AI overlords can't come soon enough

>>15307066

>how do you fuck up that badly?

Destiny 2 started development before Destiny 1 Taken King came out, or right after it.

>>15306948

That's some stupid bait. Nobody can run a server for 4 years without realizing they were running it. Power would have went out a hundred times, server restarts, upgrades, etc. Dumb meme where "magical oh so smart """ai""" chooses no move as best move = muh mutual peace" this was the running stick from the movie War Games come on. Carmack can't design Ai like that, no one can.

>>15305526

It's actually because of a move to realism in the early 2000's for WW2 games, which was then inherited for modern war games and then every game seemed to mod those games and didn't tweak the movement.

>>15307029

>The actual gunplay and weapons are all great

it has a huge identity crisis. it wants to be run and gun like doom and halo, but has call of duty tacticool aim and sprint mechanics. Also the game seems way too easy, all the footage I've seen, and what I played of the mission in the destiny 2 beta, just a breeze, might be challenging alone but for 3 people you're lucky to even get any kills if you're not taking point.

>>15306076

>The solution is to make the enemies more numerous and powerful to compensate

With the AI system they have now it'd be too unoptimized. The enemies aren't just zombies that move on a straight line like in serious sam or move on a random direction like headless chickens in doom and quake. Enemies actually circle around you and try to flank you.

>>15307251

Destiny doesn't know what it wants to be.

Yeah Red Orchestra 2 had real stiff shitty movement. The original Red Orchestra was fluid while retaining the feeling of an actual soldier movement carrying a heavy weapon.

>>15307323

Both are shit, the free aiming is totally unrealistic. Hip firing in real life should feel like a classic FPS game, the barrel would be positioned in the center of the screen.

>>15306109

It's a very pretty game but nothing there actually felt like a threat. In fact there were things clearly not even aiming at the player.

>>15307323

based on ut2004 vs ut3

>>15307401

>RO

>physics based

That's not GTA IV.

>>15307338

>the free aiming is totally unrealistic.

My guess would be they went with it to discourage hip firing and make it more realistic aiming down the sight. The free aiming fits. Either way I no scoped niggers all day with free aim.

>>15305498

Too many fps games fail to give a sense of weight to your character.

>>15306273

>the enemies are programed to have a low probability of actually hitting you

Except for when they're programmed to spin around on their feet at infinite speeds so that it's literally impossible for them to miss you.

>>15307522

I think he complains about the lack of hitscan enemies.

>put weight and acceleration on characters

<THIS UNOPTIMIZED TRASH IS SO UNRESPONSIVE

>create quick and fluid movement

<THIS UNOPTIMIZED CRAP IS BROKEN, IT FEELS SO LIGHT

This is why

>>15307613

>unoptimized

>having anything to do with movement

Is this babby's first bait?

>>15305618

>shilling a game that it's still a good year away from release

>shilling the soyboy reimagining of what used to be the manliest FPS ever created

The goodest of goys.

>>15307617

This a legit thing some retards spout I've heard leddit say this.

>>15307625

Doom Eternal is anti-soyboy. NuDoomguy has higher test than Doomboomer.

>>15308047

isn't that scene taken from halo 2

Old School First Person Shooters where more like "3D" Shoot 'em up's where dodging projectiles, and quickly dispatching hit-scan enemies was a big part of the experience. The other key element of the classic FPS was the maze-like, lock and key map design. The only modern FPS that even comes close to that design philosophy was NuShadow-Warrior but it fucked it up by removing the maze-like map. Yet shadow-Warrior in its own way's shortcomings is directly related to the fact that developers where trying to make their game work on a game-pad. NuFPS developers need to play Gravity Rush in First Person. If the gamepad controls with Gyro could be closer to KB/M and the developers designed their challenges around dodging projectiles and killing easy/weak hit scan enemies, along with an exploration of a fun map. Then they hypothetically could fix nuFPS.

they should also design PC games knowing KB/M was standard, and make a separate style of changes with the same engine to accommodate for consolefags. This PC console parity shit is cancer

>>15306973

>>15306962

I know you fun-hating fucking nigger

>>15306959

true but Quake 4 was trying to emulate Doom 3 which was riddled with the same issues of modern-FPS that we are talking about in this thread.

^ also the gameplay I embedded wasn't the best but it still somewhat illustrates my point. Especially if you actually played GR in first person.

>>15308145

isn't half the point of that boring turd of a ""game"" to stare at the characters tits and ass? why would you make it first person?

>>15305618

Nigga I actually have a few glimmers of hope for DOOM Eternal but I gotta agree with this lad >>15305686, my biggest gripes with games like NU-DOOM's movement system is how slippery they feel, I get it's supposed to be momentum but it feels like you're on a ice skating ring, (though admittedly this is from my time I had with it's demo) I mean old DOOM's movement system wasn't going to win awards either bear in mind since all it essentially is was sliding with the illusion of head-bobbing.

Fuck I really should play Quake some day.

>>15308520

>slippery

now try to criticize it without meaningless buzzword

>>15306032

>meanwhile fencer in EDF5

>>15308915

>didn't embed

I'd kill for this kind of gofast in an fps

this nip autist does nothing but ace inferno levels in EDF

>>15308936

that's a man

>>15306109

It's gets it's groove going combat-wise when you're at the end of the game and you're locked into arenas with teleports and those jump-things that make you fly into the air a bit. That's when you actually can get into a flow of things. Usually there's just a lack of enemies and way too many corridor-segments of slowly wandering through getting story-exposition.

>>15309546

DOOM2016 was pretty fun, particularly on the score attack mode that used lives and kill combos for big points, I never got the "wow it has kill arenas" like killing things isn't fun. The complaints about glory kills and confetti ammunition were legitimate complaints though but it sorta looks like they're toning that down in Eternal

>>15309546

>and Overload, which the Dev said he only made because of NuDoom's success

Overload's Kickstarter completed before nuDoom even released.

>>15309837

I was fine with the glory kills because they affected gameplay in a positive way and you were never forced to use them because of the way the chainsaw functioned. They never lasted very long and gave you iFrames. They made the combat more fun imo. It was always safer just shooting them unless you had the rune that extended their range, plus you can make them so fast the animation barely even plays.

>>15309857

I'd be lying if I said my monkey brain didn't go wild at some of the animations for the glory kills

>Doom guy cracking open an imps head like a chocolate orange

>the fucking "bonk" in the eternal trailer where he shoves a demons head into his chest cavity

I'll agree using them for I-frames or ammo confetti wasn't an ideal use for them but I won't pretend I don't like some of the animations

>>15309868

Glory kills functioned almost exactly the same as the flourishes in Resident Evil 4. A brief window of breathing room except you tore the monster's head off instead of roundhouse kicking.

>>15309878

Fuck your breathing room. If you can't hold your breath for an entire Doom level than maybe LEGO games are more your pace

>>15309878

I'd make them less easy to activate if it were up to me, obviously the shambling grunts should be a freebie but anything higher than that should make cost a resource or a cooldown or something. Just a thought. If eternal gameplay footage is indicative they won't be a free ammo box like they used to be

>>15309881

The optimal strategy is to shoot them, anon. Every single time. Glory Killing every enemy is a horrendous waste of time. It's much faster to shoot them.

>>15309901

You'd get at most 5 shotgun ammo from a glory kill. You mainly got back health. Like 10 on ultra violence and 2-3 on nightmare. Small Health packs only give you one health on nightmare. It's never ever worth glory killing on night mare unless it's one of the last enemies in the room or you need to chainsaw someone for ammo.

>>15309914

I wouldn't compare the chainsaw to the glory kill, the chainsaw idea was kind of clever in the sense it was a "free kill" and you got limited fuel for it, so in big fights you could say "okay i'm gonna use this on the mancubus/baron to save ammo for imps and stuff". in a weird way it was a smaller BFG

>>15309922

I think the Chainsaw is just OP and ruins all sense of ammo balance, because it refills half of all your ammo and there's ton of chainsaw fuel between levels so you don't really have to think about using it. I think Chainsaws would have been more interesting if they took longer to perform and didn't give you invincibility so you actually have to think when and where to use them to get your free ammo, with getting hit during a Chainsaw kill interrupting it

That said Glory Kills are inherently just a bad fit for first-person shooters, especially in the style of nuDoom. While you perform a Glory Kill, you lose sight of what's happening around you, and once the Glory Kill is over you need to reassess again where all the enemies are, by which point you're usually hit by a fireball before you're able to respond. They tried to compensate for this by giving you invincibility and preventing new attacks from happening during Glory Kills, but attacks which were fired before or directly after can screw you over regardless, especially on Nightmare. In isometric and third-person games this isn't as much of a problem because you can usually see everything happening around you as you perform an execution and have a plan ready by the time the execution ends. In a first-person game you just have to guess, which makes me believe Glory Kills are better off being replaced by a melee attack you can perform while moving

>>15309956

you're not wrong about losing focus when entering the animation, and I definitely got hit by a few already in flight fireballs while using the kills when I played

>are better off being replaced by a melee attack you can perform while moving

I'd like to be able to grab and throw lesser demons

>>15309977

I think Brutal Doom lets you do that with flying skulls

>>15309977

>I'd like to be able to grab and throw lesser demons

I think it would be hilarious to be able to grab enemies and charge them up like you can charge grenades in Project MSX so they detonate with a massive force on impact

>>15310005

>flinging an imp into a mancubus so hard it exits through his back and wallsplats

now that would be fun

>>15306076

I agree but also want to fug v-tan

>>15307256

crock of shit

Old Doom you could trick enemies into fighting each other

>>15310055

>We need something that's both got movement and is also refreshingly different.

I can agree with this.

>Crysis guy looks behind him

Why the fuck are you guys following me and trying to copy my movement?

>>15305652

Tittyfall has everything source engine games usually do along with in game speed boosts like stim and grapple. There's also stuff like stim eject. If anything it has more movement options.

>>15309956

The chain saw is not really that OP. It has limited fuel and you get more ammo the more you use. Killing a Baron of Hell with it took 4 pips of 7 total and gave you maybe half your ammo back on nightmare. Plus fuel was one of the rarest resources in the game. BFG ammo was more plentiful on a cost/benefit scale. You'd get maybe 3-4 chainsaw ammo per level, same with the BFG but the BFG could instantly kill just about everything in the room with one shot. It was the ultimate panic button. Using the chainsaw for that on any difficulty above hurt me plenty is borderline irresponsible. You needed the ammo on nightmare, and once again fuel is rare.

>>15310079

I don't like how realistic violence is getting. The gore tech in REmake 2, though impressive is not fun. Shooting something, and watching it cartoonishly explode into vague meaty chunks is fun.

Also, graphics are too good now. It's distracting, and strains the eyes.

>>15309546

>It was the best FPS in over a decade

Only because all the other were shit ,I want all games to be good , Not to get shit games so that another 10 years from now Shit+ feels "great" just by being less shit

>>15311132

It's already begun here in burgerland.

>>15310055

> tribes again

I think there should always be at least one (active and popular) game like Tribes at a time , It changes your way of thinking about movement , shooting,trajectory,time and prediction

>>15309837

nuDoom's Score Attack/Arcade mode is really, really fucking fun.

>>15308478

>I'm going to needlessly be a contrarian about a fun game I clearly never played!!

>do i fit in yet?

no

>>15309857

>>15309546

>>15309878

>>15309914

(you)

>>15305498

Does it have to be? As fun as Doom was/is, moving around like flash on LSD has always been stupid.

>>15311496

> An above average FPS

It's average only reason you see it as above is because other shooters have lowered the bar so fucking low.

Devs put all the emphasis on the animations today. If your attempt to move would break the animation you're prevented from doing so until your dood does his truck turn or awesome vault or whatever. FPS games used to never let animations interrupt you even if that resulted in it looking ridiculous.

>Acrobatics skill at 150 using the boots of springheel jak glitch

>drinking 8 bottles of skooma

>100 athetics and speed

>ring of perfection

>ring of kajitii

>acrobat's amulet

>monkeypants

>nistor's boots

my nord wears those 90% of the time, as i can run around at light speed doing that

other times i just wear my glass armor set and becuase i did the scroll dupe glitch i carry about 100 varla stones around at all times to fuel goldbrand, and also am level 146 becuase i'm pretty much god at this point

climbed above the white gold tower's peak using paintbrushes over a two hour period and using 200 paintbrushes, got so high up the tower faded away, then jumped down and only took 500ish damage out of my 1000ish health.

I'm too good at that game.

Oblivion's movement is on meth, TLDR