/v/ - Video Games

>>15258816

Because Rogue was top-down, so a different perspective would not be very "Rogue-like" would it?

>>15258849

Fuck that would be great.

>>15258856

Please don't start.

>>15258816

Because it's a map of a dungeon (remember computer rpgs were inspired by D&D) and you don't draw maps from a side view unless you want to really confuse people.

>>15258885

>wants roguelikes to not be like rogue

You just want turn based dungeon crawlers.

>>15258816

The picture you posted makes me think of a game called dig or die. Pretty good.

>>15258849

>Anime

Also, a sideview roguelike would be significantly dumbed down. as positioning (whether against traps or multiple enemies) is a key part of the strategic element of the genre.

>>15258913

And you just want to turn this thread into "let's discuss the definition of roguelike!"

Again.

>>15258953

I disagree. Positioning in roguelikes takes into account your X and Y coordinates, with "altitude" being mostly relegated to status effects like "fly" or "levitate" that are mostly just bit flags.

With a side view, you could very well have 2 coordinates for positioning as well, but one of them is restricted by gravity.

So let's say that you jump (like the classic power). You'd move a certain amount up on the Y axis and optionally a bit on the X axis if you were jumping forwards or backwards. Your movement would be locked until you touch the ground again, you'd have to either skip your turn until that happens but optionnaly you can take several actions while airborne, like attacking nearby creatures or any other action.

This in turn means that "flying" and "levitate" become more than bitflags, you're actually on a different position on the Y axis, possibly out of melee range with "fly" while "leviate" just keeps you 1 unit above ground.

You'd also be capable of attacking creatures with overhead strikes, catch them by surprise landing behind them, etc.

Traps are easy, mate. If you see them, you can either jump over them or maybe they don't trigger when you cross them if you're aware of their presence.

Also, multiple enemies would mostly be like fighting in a narrow corridor on Rogue, single line on both sides to rush you, but optionnaly they can jump\fly or throw projectiles.

>>15258885

Don't start comparing Roguelikes to the game Rogue which they are ostensibly like?

>>15259037

>wants a turn based metroidvania with permadeath

>Dont tell me what a roguelike is and isn't!

>>15259037

You are still limiting the number of controllable directions for movement and angle of attack, might as well make a platformer at that point. Having every room be a corridor fight just isn't as interesting and if you make it a flight-based game (which would be a cool gimmick, bat roguelike where you fly around and use sonar to navigate and detect predators/prey would be awesome) it'd basically be a traditional roguelike anyway.

>>15259128

>metroidvania

Where did he say that, you memenigger?

>>15258938

>>>/tv/

>>15259128

>wants a turn based metroidvania with permadeath

Actually I want something along the line of Dwarf Fortress done Terraria style. However I wouldn't mind at all a slightly ARPG, side scrolling Roguelike.

>>15258938

anime is for faggots regardless of board

>>15259194

>A short experimental "sideways view" roguelike game would be interesting, though, just to test what could be done that couldn't in the standard view, like jumping, dropping stuff on enemies heads from high up and stuff like that.

Could you use something like the Maniac Mansion movement style or the Legend of Mana movement style for a SSRoguelike just so it wouldn't slip fully into platformer territory? Or what about Clock Tower style?

>>15259128

Never said anything about progression being tied to item\powerup aquisition, why did you dump "metroidvania" there? You're really reaching, mate.

>>15259148

>You are still limiting the number of controllable directions for movement and angle of attack

Compared to what? Not like this actually matters THAT much in Rogue anyway, an attack is an attack regardless if it comes from N to S or W to E. At most, range and esoteric maneuvers like the Knight's Jump play a role here but overall, how many tiles your oponent is from you matters more than what direction he is from you.

I guess you can count pillardancing here too if you want?

>Having every room be a corridor fight just isn't as interesting

As interesting as what? Large open areas? Not that those change things that much, you just get surrounded if you idle in them instead of retreating to a corridor anyway.

Besides, it's a shift in focus and design, obviously. If it's a sideview than enemies will have to use multiple different attacks with projectiles and range weapons if they aren't adjacent to you or simple melee if they are, thus fully enabling you to be surrounded by several enemies anyway and in a worse situation since you'd have to fight off several more to break free.

>>15259183

Anime is for weebs, videogames are for children and TV is for braindead morons. Now that we got the generalizations out of the way, enjoy your particular brand of time waster until you keel over.

>>15258913

See:

>>15259194

>>15259224

Like beat'em-up games, right? That's just an isometric view-point. Mechanically, it's the same as a top down gameplay, it's just the perspective that would be different. But I guess you could have height difference in there?

Ever seen Zettai Hero Project?

It has an isometric view, and I think being on higher/lower ground affects your option.

It's one of those softer roguelikes like the mistery dungeon games with no permadeath and carrying over some items and stat boosts through different dungeons.

>>15259194

Jesus H. Christ, I was on that thread, was that a shitshow. This isn't even good quality shitposting, it's fucking depressing. Honestly, the low quality of the trolling is what gets me far more than how pedantic he sounds.

It's like he set out to shitpost at the start but midways he begun believing his own shit and became serious about it.

The whole thing reeks of dogmatic elitism where you defend a certain point simply because "That's how it always was, that's how it has to be" with absolutely no real understanding of the underlying elements of the genre and why they are present.

The simplest example: grid-like movement, turn-based gameplay and even hunger have a direct effect on the gameplay. They are present in Rogue and every other roguelike because they accomplish a specific goal for the gameplay itself. ASCII art does not change in any way whatosever the gameplay, it's not a requirement at all. There's versions of Rogue with different tilesets, even.

But he'll conflat all of this as if it was all the same out of tradition, not a real argument, all for the sake of shitposting.

I miss the times when some decent effort was placed into trolling, where you got angry at the bullshit you were being fed but you came to admire just how ridiculous the train of logic was that lead the situation there.

>>15259194

>calling out a misuse of the term is bait

Hope you enjoy your "action adventure" games such as ME:A. Linguistic programming is the tried and true method to corrupt anything with propaganda.

>>15260730

Note I said:

>Roguelike and Roguelike-like

This thread is about Roguelikes in a broad sense. For the purpose of this thread I'm interested in any sort as long as it isn't just a full on Roguelite.

>>15258816

>Are there any Roguelike and Roguelike-like games that have a side view perspective instead of a top view?

Yup, they're called Metroidvanias.

>>15259575

Crawl is actually pretty fun with friends.

The game will ALWAYS feel like it's skewed against you, no matter what you are playing and the way your powerups make your foes stronger is pretty nice.

It does look like hot garbage, especially for the humans and the weapons, which is weird since some monsters actually look decent, especially the bosses.

>>15260730

Nobody calls ME:A an "action adventure", everyone calls it an RPG. You could have said that and still carry across your point about mis-using a term, but you had to go full retard on the process.

Do not even dare to complain about "linguistic programming" when that's precisely the only thing you ever do in these threads.

>>15261957

Sadly, no. Lack of perma-death, a mechanic to push you forwards and the lack of turn-based gameplay aren't present in most metroidvanias. Entirely different way of handling "exploration", each with it's own purposes.

>>15259128

>>15261957

>metroidvania

Is this a hot new meme or are you both genuinely retart?

>>15259037

>And you just want to turn this thread into "let's discuss the definition of roguelike!"

You beat him to the punch then, faggot: >>15258856

Go read a fucking dictionary and don't post until you grok the word "like".

>>15263559

>What's wrong with the Berlin interpretation

I mean, if you think about it, every game is "turn based" in that every agent usually takes 60 turns per second on average

>>15263591

So you're saying you're both wizard level turbofaggots that need to end their lives? That's all I'm getting out of this.

>>15260214

>>15263591

>>15263655

Take a look at this fucking goon tier faggotry.

>>15263655

>>15263708

How about you both slit your fucking wrists and stop shitting up threads.

>>15258816

The reality of the situation, OP, is that you need to better define the set of characteristics you're asking about. The definition of a roguelike is such a contentious topic that this shitflinging was inevitable.

What mechanics are you actually asking about in this hypothetical side-scrolling game?

>>15263867

>What mechanics are you actually asking about in this hypothetical side-scrolling game?

See

>>15259169

That was primarily my main hope but I'm open to other games in this perspective that can be broadly called Roguelike.

Obviously I know about sidescrolling Roguelites like Spelunky so there's not much of a point in making a thread to ask about them. They aren'really what I'm looking for here anyway.

so wazhack?

>>15264012

I haven't played it, but from what I've seen, the game Oxygen Not Included kinda fits that vein.

It's realtime, not turn based, but give Risk of Rain a shot.

>>15264032

I still would.

>>15264016

I forgot the name of this, thanks!

>>15263559

>what's wrong with the Berlin Interpretation?

For the purpose of definition, none. For the sake of the genre, it breeds stagnation.

Applying a restrictive set of rules means that you gotta work withing a specific framework to do a game in the same genre, which can end up culling out new aproaches that wouldn't fit the description very well.

An idea I had, for instance, was to have a roguelike with 3D graphics and animations where things happen simultaneously all the time but action only takes place when you're actually acting as well or skipping time.

So, for instance, when you're walking down an hallways, you'd see everyone else moving around as well at their own speed, but as soon as you stopped to think about your next move, they'd all freeze in place as well.

Actions like attacking someone would see both you and your enemies swinging your weapons at the same time according to how fast you are, swords clashing and parrying if they collid in mid-air.

Once you start an action, you wouldn't be able to interrupt it till it's over if it's a short action like drinking a potion, so you could see yourself chugging a bottle at the same time that a sword would open your guts.

This would make it feel a lot like an action game with less restrictions on "turns", letting different speeds have greater effects on gameplay and enabling things like faster swordsman can wait for a strike, parry it and use their superior speed to attack before the oponent can recover.

Of course, this would do away with the turn-based gameplay and the grid-movement so it wouldn't fit at all the Berlin Interpretation, despite how good an idea this could possibly be or that it keeps everything else about roguelikes, especially some of their most important gameplay aspects.

>>15259183

Whatever you say, goon pussy

>>15263343

You're free to attempt that yourself, dumb nigger