f2f00c No.15247099
And it only took 2 decades. If anyone still plays PS1 games on Real Hardware (especially 2D ones), this cleans up the image to the way it was suppose to look.
>The Sony PlayStation from 1994 had an advanced polygon rendering & texture mapping GPU which lacked the traditional 2D background and sprite hardware of systems like the SNES or Sega Saturn. Almost every object on-screen was defined for the GPU as a textured polygon (or rectangle), whether it was pasted as a flat 2D image or mapped into 3D space.
>The PlayStation could have its graphics stored in VRAM in 24-bit or 15-bit. When graphics are displayed on-screen, however, this is often reduced to 15-bit and this bit depth remapping can have optional dithering applied – which makes sense to reduce low-bitplane banding for darkened textures or Gouraud-shaded objects.
It made no sense for simple 2D games with hand-drawn bitmap artwork, or for ports from old arcade games or 1980s home computers.
>Even 3D games might suffer a bit if a texture had been (presumably) drawn originally in an art program that supported 16-bit or 18-bit colour, as the RGB values were locked to a depth similar to 15-bit, but just enough darker or brighter than the PS1's native display such that all textures had a uniform dither applied to them. Observe the sky and road textures in Ridge Racer to the right to see this: that dithering isn't blending more subtle shades in – it's a 2x2 checkerboard pattern overlaid indiscriminately to large swathes of the screen.
http://www.chrismcovell.com/psxdither.html
(Drag a .Bin file into the executable & it auto patches the game.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CT-8mWmguE5cBHQmBiGi4B6yP0ckgEUK/view
d30951 No.15247112
>If anyone still plays PS1 games on Real Hardware
Who still does that and do they have a way to avoid putting wear and tear on the disc drive? And is the hardware on the fat PS2 considered the equivalent to purists outside of a few exeptions?
8bf707 No.15247119
The before picture looks better tbh
f2f00c No.15247121
>>15247112
>Who still does that
Oldfags like me
>do they have a way to avoid putting wear and tear on the disc drive?
There's a Flash Card for the Original Model PS1 consoles coming out later this year (the PSIO). You can also install PS1 games onto the PS2 hard drive now, but compatibility is iffy. Nothing stopping you from patching a game & running a burned CD though.
> is the hardware on the fat PS2 considered the equivalent to purists outside of a few exceptions?
Generally yes, but there are exceptions. As far as I remember, all models of fat PS2 & slim models up to the SCPH 7000 run PS1 games natively in hardware mode.
aeaa27 No.15247125
>>15247121
>You can also install PS1 games onto the PS2 hard drive now, but compatibility is iffy.
Do tell.
8ca498 No.15247126
>banding instead of dithering
A fate worse than filters.
f2f00c No.15247136
>>15247125
Look into popstarter. (take this with a grain of start as this is all going from memory). Popstarter is a way to run the PS2's native PS1 emulator "pops" on the PS2 hard drive. Calling it an emulator is kind of weird though. From what I've read, the PS2 uses an "emulator" that runs the game natively 95% through hardware (the Psp does something similar). I think it was developed through the documentation sony bought from the guys who made Bleemcast way back when. It's sort of like those new FPGA consoles like the SNES NT Mini, where sony used the PS2 to approximate a ps2 on a hardware level.
>>15247126
It mostly helps 2D games. It does break a few PS1 games that depend on dithering though (silent hill). Final Fantasy IX & Chrono cross look amazing with the patch though.
31403f No.15247154
>>15247099
So anymore examples and what is Sony's reaction to this? wonder if this will fix the butterfaces in Metal Gear Solid.
d30951 No.15247183
>>15247119
You'd probably have to see it in motion and in person on different games to get a good idea of what it looks like.
>>15247121
>popstarter
Man that's a lot of hassle to setup considering it's not perfect compatibility and has issues. Looks like my launch PS2 is staying in the closet for the time being.
And while the PSIO fits the bill for what I asked it's not your typical disc drive emulator. I was hoping for a more elegant internal solution similar to what the Dreamcast has.
f2f00c No.15247190
>>15247183
ell those are your options currently, unless you want to burn discs anyway. As a side note, there's an adapter to use Sata hard drives on PS2, so the faster Read speed on those might make PS1 games load faster.
227519 No.15247243
>>15247126
>Another "improvement" to a "problem"
2e2b54 No.15247324
>Antidithering filters
>Disliking dithering
f2f00c No.15247341
>>15247324
>>Disliking dithering
dithing has no place in arcade ports or other 2D games that ween't trying to produce effects or colors outside their color range with composite. why would anyone want to play harmful park or
Castlevania Chronicles with a dithering filter applied to the entire image?
>>15247154
>So anymore examples and what is Sony's reaction to this?
Zero, just like how N64 games had anti aliasing applies to all its games for reasons (which someone fixed in similar way in recent years). It was probably intentional, but it makes some games look horrible.
ea65a7 No.15247361
>>15247126
might be the use of the old gpu instead of the new one.
df28a5 No.15247384
>>15247341
Not all N64 games used AA, but it was turned on by default. Quake had the option to turn it off, and some racing games didn't have it enabled at all.
And if I had to choose between colour-banding and dithering, I would choose dithering.
ea65a7 No.15247399
>>15247384
you don't have to if you use a scph-5500 or newer model.
f2f00c No.15247408
Umihara Kawase's looking good with this patch. No dithering in sight.
925717 No.15247547
Make a Reshade or fuck off
d34050 No.15247643
>>15247547
>using shaders instead of fixing the core issue
Psoys get out
7ffba2 No.15247708
>>15247099
> this cleans up the image to the way it was suppose to look.
No this introduce retarded banding because retard don't understand the dither was intended, not to say dithering doesn't look bad on some games but banding looks far worse.
cbc810 No.15247725
This was only a "problem" if you didn't have a CRT.
53b02b No.15247757
>>15247708
Prove that the dithering was intended, retard.
7ffba2 No.15247766
>>15247757
How about you prove banding was intended instead, after all it was made forced default on the whole library, so there's no reason to think it wasn't intended.
53b02b No.15247771
>>15247766
You're the one claiming that dithering was intended, as if developers wanted their pixel art to look like it was suffering from chicken pox. The burden of proof is on you, faggot.
7ffba2 No.15247777
>>15247771
There's no reason it wouldn't have and if you remove it it looks worse, see it's easy.
289ca3 No.15247782
Seems cobalt doesn't like dithering either.
53b02b No.15247795
Furthermore this isn't even actually dithering. Dithering is meant to give more color depth than the hardware is able to deliver. Plus the "dithering" in this case is uniform across the entire screen.
>>15247777
>There's no reason it wouldn't have
Prove it
>and if you remove it it looks worse
Wrong
7ffba2 No.15247826
>>15247795
>Prove it
Enabled by default, easy to disable, nobody ever did
>Wrong
Hell people have had that option in emulators for over 15 years now, and I haven't seen anyone claim it looked better until some retard found a way to do the same on real hardware
>zoomed in shots on an LCD
Hmm really makes you think, at best here no visible difference at worst it looks like shit.
53b02b No.15247846
>>15247826
>Enabled by default, easy to disable,
Where's your proof? Nothing in the OP link claimed it was easy to disable for developers or that Sony ever let developers disable it.
>Hell people have had that option in emulators for over 15 years now
No? You're a dipshit. Emulator post-processing shaders =/= actually turning off a feature of the GPU.
>and I haven't seen anyone claim it looked better
Because you're retarded
>>zoomed in shots on an LCD
Those are screengrabs, fucker, and >>15247408 already posted an example of it on a CRT where it's an improvement. Go fuck yourself, you dumbcunt nigger.
b0cf8d No.15247860
>>15247099
yo, normaly i just turn dithering in retroarch beetle HW off and everything is fine. Anyway, i tried to downloade your exe and my russia spy software (kaspersky) immiditley went crazy.
b0cf8d No.15247863
ah shit, this is bait thread.
6f39af No.15247871
53b02b No.15247874
>>15247863
>>15247860
Are you pretending to be retarded?
7ffba2 No.15247895
>>15247846
>Nothing in the OP link claimed it was easy to disable
I'm pretty sure that if you can code a PS1 game setting the register that controls the presence or absence of dithering isn't too hard.
>No? You're a dipshit. Emulator post-processing shaders =/= actually turning off a feature of the GPU.
Emulators have had the option to not do dithering ever since the old days of ePSXe 1.xx and the Pete's plugin so I'm not sure the fuck you're on with your retarded babbling about postprocessing, not to mention one would have better control over what the GPU does in an emulated environment anyway so your argument doesn't even make sense to begin with..
>Those are screengrabs, fucker
Yes and they're still zoomed in and I'm viewing them on an LCD. obviously if you have greater clarity + zoom defects are gonna become more apparent but even with that unless I'm really putting myself close to the screen the only real difference is that
>already posted an example of it on a CRT where it's an improvement. Go fuck yourself, you dumbcunt nigger.
No comparison and yet another zoomed in shot, how about you provide proofs if you're gonna ask for them that vehemently?
289ca3 No.15247902
>>15247795
>this isn't even actually dithering
>blending colors by pattern to a reduced palette isn't dithering
d1a5b4 No.15248668
>>15247757
Artists, developers and testers would've seen this "problem" before the game was released. There is nothing to fix here.
fc688c No.15248700
Pic 1 and 2 without the patch, 3 and 4 with. There still seems to be dithering on the main menu.
85ee30 No.15248706
>>15247126
Came here to say this more or less. On real hardware through a CRT you pretty much can't notice dithering, and it has a natural smoothing effect which is in fact the original intention.
On emulation however, you can tell it to render true 32-bit color thus eliminating both banding and dithering. Pics related.
f2f00c No.15249017
>>15248700
If I had to Guess, I would say not every game uses the same address registers for the dithering filter. either that, or what you're seeing is intended texture artifacts that were suppose to be there. I tried this on Jade Cocoon & The Misadventures of Tron Bonne while the topic's been up & Jade Cocoon especially looks night & day with the patch applied. Those saying you wouldn't notice it on a CRT should really try it themselves in person, cause I sure as hell pick it out immediately. Final Fantasy IX also looks really nice without the checkerboard patern.
2e2b54 No.15249054
>>15248706
Yeah but the grass loses a lot of its texture in 32bpp
50aa90 No.15249057
>>15247099
Looks like it's not working properly - the pic on the right has shitty banding. You can see it hard cut from one shade to another isntead of being a smooth gradient.
>>15247136
2D games rarely used dithering so this is fucking stupid.
7ffba2 No.15249078
>>15249057
>Looks like it's not working properly
It is working properly, the dithering is hiding that banding, remove the dithering and you get the banding back.
f2f00c No.15249090
>>15249057
>2D games rarely used dithering
it's a 2x2 checkerboard pattern overlaid indiscriminately to large swathes of the screen.
Pay attention. Not every game has it, but there's a large, LARGE chunk of 2D games plagued by this. I wish you were here in person, I would just show you the difference on my tube TV. It's hard to convey when I don't have any before & after pictures. Maybe I'll take some pictures late, I dunno. Don't you agree its at least good as an OPTION for the people who like it?
fc688c No.15249349
>>15248700
Screenshots made with an unpatched rom, with disabled dithering and 32-bit color, as >>15248706 mentioned.
2e2b54 No.15249362
You know, this has also got me thinking, you think some N64 textures would look better dithered instead of antialiased?
ea65a7 No.15249366
>>15249362
Absolutely. The 3-point filtering in N64 games never looked good. Anti-aliasing didn't help very much except for flats. Using the de-blur feature on newer N64 mods has been very beneficial for the picture quality of the system.
f2f00c No.15249369
>>15249362
There's a patcher to strip the anti aliasing from N64 roms if you wanted to see what thats like.
3aa5e9 No.15249373
>>15249362
yes, in fact I turn off antialiasing when I emulate most N64 games. I never liked the blurriness of N64. However, some games like Zelda need AA for the textures to look correct. In such cases I'm sure some type of dithering would be welcomed.
2e2b54 No.15249382
>>15249373
See like, right there, if you dithered the grass, It's probably look nicer and less, plasticine.
d35764 No.15249398
>>15247099
> the way it was suppose to look.
I can see this argument for multi-platform games. But I highly doubt most ps-exclusives were made without the technical limitations in mind.
ea65a7 No.15249423
>>15249398
MGS comes to mind as a counter example, it's a very detailed game on its own and has a very intense dithering filter over the game at all times. I think it would be very beneficial for 2D games but also certain 3D games on a scph-5500+ PS1.
a4c6e5 No.15249431
>>15249373
Why did you waste an A press there?
7c8ca7 No.15249446
>>15249431
>implying it wasn't half an A press
thats the second jump animation as a note
c7ff08 No.15249488
>>15247795
>disagreeing with quads
Somebody get this hothead out of here!
42a06b No.15249533
>>15247099
>bayer dithering
>a problem
What kind of fucking faggotry is this?
db6fc5 No.15251400
>>15247136
POPS is some shitty emulator taken from some PS2 game, it doesn't use the hardware to play PS1 games. There is no way to boot PS1 ISOs under PS2 natively last I checked.
91971c No.15251848
>>15247119
No niggers allowed tbh
24a122 No.15252106
>dithering is a problem
why not just put that le epic for the win scan line and smoothing filter on it too?
dc6866 No.15253403
>>15251400
POPS is sony's official emulator with near perfect compatibility because it was made by pros with all the documentation.
e2756c No.15253477
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15249373
>not using a high resolution texture pack
Why are you living in the past, grandpa?
286c3c No.15256168
96cd5c No.15256228
>>15247099
>(especially 2D ones)
But 2D PS1 games look great.
>>15247126
Left looks way better.
22f3c6 No.15256231
>>15247126
The left one looks way better
>>15248706
The only thing that looks better without dithering is the sky, all the rest looks worse especially the grass.
d87e0a No.15256298
>>15247099
Left side looks better tbh
f92568 No.15257179
>>15247190
>>15247183
I love these things, they reek havoc on the speed running community.
MUH DISC
266392 No.15257344
>>15249373
Thats texture filtering not anti-aliasing.
9c8cc1 No.15257422
>Dithering widely considered to be a plague on the eyes the entire fifth gen.
>Hipster contrarian faggots itt who are likely under age are defending it.
KYS
6b8d38 No.15257423
>>15257422
>widely considered
By who? You and your friends?
9c8cc1 No.15257435
>>15257423
By everyone who knew what it was. Open your eyes fool, dithering looks like complete shit. This argument is skubtier regardless, but I fucking love the historical revisionism /v/ like to indulge in. It's fucking cute. You underage faggots will always be the biggest hipsters on the internet.
6b8d38 No.15257462
>>15257435
You're the one acting like a mad child arguing with his feelings. The gradient effect of dithering is more pleasing to my eye than color banding and this is an opinion you're going to have to live with.
Coming from someone who at least played PS1 often during its time, I never heard a single person complaining about dithering. The real problem with PS1 graphics were the shifting polygons and textures that made everything look like it was alive and that shit has been fixed already.
46e09d No.15257498
Dither always was cancer.
435b48 No.15258021
>>15257462
Dithering was always a shit cherry on a shit cake.
05bec1 No.15258098
>>15257422
Dithering looks bad, not having dithering looks even worse.
25af28 No.15258190
>>15247099
The original looks better.
b944cb No.15259093
>>15247099
<The way the developers released it and it was originally displayed wasn't the way it was supposed to look
Millennial please, you're not reinventing the wheel.
413605 No.15269936
>>15259093
This. Most, or at least good, developers planned around hardware limitations when designing game elements.
e32e01 No.15270477
7a99c8 No.15272312
880b24 No.15272798
>>15253477
>sanpaku eyes Mario