27a764 No.15181062
Do good games about planetary exploration even exist? Why this genre is so shitty?
998152 No.15181066
Because planets are fucking huge
3c943a No.15181067
Because unexplored planets have nothing on them and therefore no content in a game.
111eae No.15181071
>>15181067
Bro, but like, you don't know if the unexplored planet has nothing on it.
c1c5dc No.15181128
Phantasy Star
This is a shit thread
944b82 No.15181134
>>15181071
I do when I scan it in my ship. And most planets are fucking empty gay bullshit.
d24682 No.15181140
real life, until all the world leaders collaborated to prevent further exploration of the earth getting us stuck in a pointless loop of side quests and pvp and preventing us from actually beating the game.
3456f4 No.15181144
Because technology has gotten to the point where video games are more dense with more content filled into smaller landscapes. Making a game where you can explore even a single planet GTA style would cost billions and would take 20 years to do.
cf62d3 No.15181146
they are the best examples of games where you can "go anywhere" and "do anything" are awful games.
870ff8 No.15181148
>>15181140
buh thats globalism anon, muh tribal politics
d0f4fd No.15181334
>>15181062
Because space exploration, or anything space-related, is fucking boring in general.
Also >>15181146. They're like putting you in a big-ass sand pit. What will you do? Doesn't matter, it's all meaningless since you're the only one doing anything in it anyways.
a43644 No.15181401
>>15181381
Exploration in that game was even worse than in no man's sky.
b1ac0a No.15181417
>>15181381
Don't get so close anon.
6c193a No.15181418
>>15181062
>Why this genre is so shitty?
It requires effort
f48bc7 No.15181998
>>15181134
then clearly something is wrong with the design of the game, if they made it so that planets actually had things in them instead of just bullshit nothing, i'm sure fun could be had, depending on what the design turns out to be.
We just need good developers, thats pretty much it.
33a0ad No.15182029
There's that one universe simulator
But it's not a "game" exactly
f2d3d8 No.15183276
>>15181062
realism ruins everything
945f76 No.15183280
>good planetary exploration
>procedurally generated planets
Pick one and only one.
cf62d3 No.15183293
>>15181418
Please, people here would eat that shit up if there was a spread sheet of things to manage for each planet.
137e25 No.15183340
Star Citizen is coming out any year now.
ea4f86 No.15183557
I would rather a game set on one planet that you and a group crashed on and have to beat life out among its vicious flora and fauna. Sorta like xenoblade x but not fucking gay.
7bef8f No.15183601
>>15183557
Risk of rain with co-op
211cdd No.15183603
>>15181418
>dogola
How are the feds my dear huenigger?
7135a4 No.15184612
>>15181062
There's the game that No Man's Sky plagiarized, Noctis.
2d5c0a No.15185284
Look into Starflight (and its sequel). You can play it on a wide range of systems. Pic is back of the Commodore 64 box. Amiga, Atari ST, and Sega Genesis probably have the best graphics (if you care about this).
b6e538 No.15186891
>>15181062
Starflight, Protostar and NMS are all good tbh. You're just not going to get the tight corridors of the cinematic games you're used to due to the scale. And if you ask me that's a good thing.
Space Engine even if it's not a game is also really nice.
8e4724 No.15186903
>>15185284
The Genesis version has a lot of differences, I'd not recommend it as a purist.
b6e538 No.15186949
>>15183340
Freelancer 2 isn't really about planetary exploration.
>>15181067
If anything I'd argue NMS is too dense with content.
b6e538 No.15186955
ad5099 No.15186959
>>15181134
>I do when I scan it in my ship
If you scan the planet it's no longer unexplored.
b6e538 No.15186961
>>15184612
While they do share some features, a couple, I think it's beyond hyperbole to say NMS plagiarised it.
653f84 No.15186997
Is No Man's Sky even that bad? I've heard some anons saying that they've improved themselves tremendously since their initial fuckup and have been working to put the game into an acceptable shape.
7393f7 No.15187005
>>15181062
It's because they have to hamfistedly shove genre trappings like the generic first person shooter plot or the generic survival sim mechanics
No Man's Sky is a prime example of this since if you just strip away the "planet exploration" part, all it is is just a generic survival game. There's hundreds of games that have the exact same minute to minute gameplay as that one did. They had too ambitious a goal and didn't think about the game part as much as they should have.
There's also another flaw which is that games with planetary exploration, especially on the scale of something like No Man's Sky ignore that most people would rather see a single planet with tons of detail and character to it than hundreds of identical ones. I thought Mass Effect's uncharted worlds was the closest to the ideal of the mechanic because these were optional procedurally generated barren worlds you could do sidequests on and had individual story based missions on. Some were really good (like Major Kyle, Dead Scientists, the Moon mission etc) and some were really bad (investigate some geth data Shepard). But you didn't have to do this content if you didn't want to the rest of the game was set on detailed individually handcrafted environments
The ideal planetory exploration game wouldn't be set in a galaxy but instead be a solar system exploration game. Like you explore 7 planets in a far off solar system. It would just be really hard to write this in a way that isn't contrived.
7b7835 No.15187025
>>15181062
kerbal space pogrom with a lot of mods is sort of good for that. Its not exploration as in on foot, its a little bit more abstracted than that. its more about scanning a new planet or moon from orbit. finding where ore/s are, finding a flat spot to put a base and scanning for monoliths.
they removed the spyware side of it but its still probably a good idea to pirate it. however its still space minecraft for turo-autists. so take that as you will.
653f84 No.15187035
>>15187005
The problem with side planet exploration in Mass Effect was that those planets were fucking barren and lifeless, besides some desert planets, if I want to explore planets I want variety in their environments. The problem with that is that it's an extremelly hard thing to do, it's easier to make randomly generated planets rather than a few very well made ones. I think it would be a slightly smaller problem if we took the approach of old RPGs and just made the game be an isometric 2D RPG, with the planets acting as locations in the game. As long as they're good RPG locations, they will scratch the "planet exploring" itch.
7393f7 No.15187044
>>15187035
That's why I said it's close to the ideal since this content was optional. And why the ideal would probably be just having 7 uncharted world planets you explore rather than 50ish Mass Effect 1 had.
They also forgot that most people need a story or something to keep them invested in actually exploring the planet. It's one reason why John Carmack when he spoke about story said "you expect it to be there". If it isn't there, there isn't really a reason to keep going especially if there isn't a definite end you're striving to get to.
524a82 No.15187065
>>15186997
The core-gameplay loop was fucked from the start. No amount of new features aside from full penetration sex scenes can fix it.
I am impressed that they kept updating it for free though. Some assholes would just take the money and run. Whole thing seems like a passion project for Sean Murray.
443622 No.15187069
>>15187035
>those planets were fucking barren and lifeless
Like most planets in the galaxy. That was really my problem with NMS, 99% of planets had habitable atmosphere, and every planet has some kind of tree so you can't get stuck
653f84 No.15187071
I guess we have to wait for the full Outer Wilds to come out.
653f84 No.15187074
>>15187069
No Man's Sky has the opposite problem of Mass Effect, too much life on the planets, with Mass Effect having too little of it.
0fd423 No.15187076
>Lol why can't devs hand-craft an entire fucking planet and make everything about it great????
Procedural generation was a mistake
Open worlds were a mistake
deecc9 No.15187081
>>15187076
>Open worlds were a mistake
But that's wrong, nigger.
7b7835 No.15187089
>>15187065
>full penetration sex scenes
>with the no mans refund abominations
8b9aeb No.15187091
>>15187035
What made me appreciate the "fucking barren and lifeless" planets was finishing up with whatever I had to do on them and then heading back to the Citadel, the hub of galactic civilization teeming with life. The contrast is nice and intentional I think.
7393f7 No.15187092
>>15187081
In my experience the best Open World games have small worlds that are full of detail. Like San Andreas has a comparatively small world compared to most open world games nowadays but it really uses that space effectively and makes it feel larger than it is.
7b7835 No.15187109
>>15187092
this.
it can be fun to explore a procedurally generated world for the first time but after a while you sort of get a feel for it and then every procedurally generated world will start to feel the same.
deecc9 No.15187113
>>15187092
Well yeah, that's how you do an open world properly. You're creating a larger location on a smaller scale. You don't have vast tracts of land with little to no-content in them. These anti-open world fags don't realize this though, and they think all open world games have the same content density as Minecraft.
b6e538 No.15187221
>>15186997
>Is No Man's Sky even that bad?
No, it was actually decent at launch but due to the "U CAN DO ANYTHING!!!!1!" hype it wasn't received very well. Especially since they basically ignored that they couldn't get multiplayer working by the release date, they were optimistic about that to the very end. Anyhow, with each patch the game has improved a lot, I didn't really mind how it was on release but they've really outdone themselves with big free meaty updates. So when the next update hits and multiplayer is in its suddenly going to be the best game ever since you can explore planets with your autistic and annoying friends. Honestly I'm pretty annoyed by how 90% seem to think that shit games are great if there's multiplayer and that decent to great games are shit if there's no multiplayer.
162d21 No.15187269
>>15181062
because it costs more money than anybody has to fill planets with good many content, that's why. did you just drop out from highschool or were you born without a brain.
2ed758 No.15187356
Because scale limitations are a problem that has to be solved. You can really only do so one of three ways, and each has a major downside from an exploration perspective.
1. Procedurally generate realistic planets (Elite: Dangerous). Pro is you achieve the scale, con in that, as in real life, 99.9% of planets are boring, empty rocks/balls of gas.
2. Procedurally generate unrealistic planets (No Man's Sky). Solves the above emptiness problem, but the content is inevitably repetitive and/or error-prone.
3. Hand-craft content for planets (Mass Effect 1). This produces the best planet exploration content, but severely limits the scale to a small number of planets or even small portions of planets.
As it stands right now, we don't have the technology to make a good game with procedural generation, and humans just don't have the time to fill an entire galaxy/universe with content-filled planets.
82be56 No.15187424
>>15181062
Because there need to be more than just "exploration", otherwise it's just Space Engine.
And if it's just running around in the hope of something happening, you might have a gambling addiction.
b6e538 No.15187447
>>15187356
>As it stands right now, we don't have the technology to make a good game with procedural generation
This is just plain nonsense. Many good games have been mentioned in this thread already and they use procedural generation. Daggerfall and Arena are good games and they use procedural generation.
2ed758 No.15187485
>>15187447
I meant to say a good planet exploration game. Obviously procedural generation isn't inherently shit, but it tends to break down on a galactic scale.
caa026 No.15187489
>>15183340
It is coming anon, and it will be the greatest space game to date
5392ae No.15187522
>>15181062
there is a slav game called precursors something, give it a try.
513e0e No.15187591
Just like, make 1 planet and fill it with loads of interesting stuff. I dont get why you would want to explore several giant planets filled with nothing. I guess you could make several thousand planets worth of interesting stuff but I don't think any human on earth is capable of doing that. While we are on the subject has anyone heard of any new space RPGs? I like space RPGs.
f32635 No.15187784
>>15187447
>Daggerfall and Arena are good games
Tbh Daggerfall was No Man's Sky of the past. Have you ever wandered in that game away from the map points? Its fucking empty fields with sprite trees, for many kilometers. You can wander off and keep wandering forever in that game.
467fd3 No.15187852
>>15187784
I'm hoping the Unity version tries to fix that.
Speaking of which, what's the status on it? Is it worth playing now?
fe77e0 No.15187869
>>15187522
You mean pic related? It is complete and utter shit.
e7feac No.15187898
I think that new bethesda one has the potential to be the best in the genre. That's not saying too much though.
4428f9 No.15188247
af3fa2 No.15188259
>>15187447
daggerfall is such a fuck awful game.
bd77ac No.15188445
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>>15183276
Reminder that science fiction was corrupted by communists in the 1930s, who stopped publishing anything that didn't push their agenda.
I don't understand why this guy would go through all the effort of researching the Futurians, use quotes from people who saw this shit happen at the time, etc. Just to slap his faggot furry character on it and ruin the entire vid
80cd2d No.15188471
>>15188445
>Just to slap his faggot furry character on it
Alt-fury is a thing. He's also homosexual.
b6e538 No.15188775
>>15187869
Good shit though.
b1842c No.15189027
>>15188445
>Reminder that science fiction was corrupted by communists in the 1930s, who stopped publishing anything that didn't push their agenda.
No they didn't. They used a small fraction of it, and nobody of any value, to do it.
bd77ac No.15189107
>>15189027
I'm skeptical as fuck about that. The shit described in that video is exactly what is happening in games today. Communists in the major cities forming cliques, grabbing gate keeping jobs and climbing into positions that let them influence the industry and push their narrative. It's history repeating.
7135a4 No.15189190
>>15186961
Would you prefer "shamelessly ripped off the concept of the game and hyped it to the masses as something new counting on the masses to not know that it was actually done before two decades ago?"
b6e538 No.15190163
>>15189190
Might as well say Noctis ripped off Starflight.
42c1c2 No.15190351
>>15187852
At this stage it's still only a curiosity. You can SORT OF play it, but it's still missing some important features. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually finish it up and have it working properly by the end of the year though. It's only at 0.5, but so much of the stuff up through 0.8 on the roadmap has already been implemented. Once they're done with spells, it's basically just getting all of the juicy character creation stuff working.
https://www.dfworkshop.net/projects/daggerfall-unity/roadmap/
944b82 No.15195873
>>15181998
>then clearly something is wrong with the design of the game
There's something wrong with the design of your face faggot. no shit, but we're speaking in sci-fi terms here, not vidya
>>15186959
wow
34e3d5 No.15198406
>>15181062
Almost anything specifically tailored to a 'genre' is trash. It's inherently low-effort and pandering on the part of the developer, and reverses the natural process; instead of an inspired artist skillfully working with the tools available to them to create something beautiful, you have the someone regurgitating tropes and tailoring mechanics to fit popular opinion and preconceptions. It's not like you can just divide art into pandering genre-work and elite masterpieces, but generally great artists spawn genres, and poor artists follow after them. Sometimes refining and contributing, but eventually reaching the lowest common denominator to maximize marketability while minimizing effort.
This is especially obvious when art crosses mediums, everyone knows that video-game based movies and movie based video-games are especially atrocious with rare exceptions. Most great science-fiction work was done in literature and film, especially in short stories and pulp magazine tier publications. It shouldn't be contentious that these formats are much better suited for the introspection, descriptiveness/visuals, non-linearity/atemporality, etc. that comes with space travel and exploration. Any game that tries to explore these themes must sacrifice something in its gameplay, or at least not try to copy them over directly. Most games that try are just applying a skin over a proven formula (Starcraft to RTS, Masseffect to D&D based RPGs), crudely implementing mechanics so that you hardly have a game but a spreadsheet simulator(EVE online, probably most space themed MMOs) and any enjoyment comes from politics or grinding, is just a poorly written visual-novel ripping off of classic science fiction.
Some great games are set in space or feature concepts from science fiction; no great game was ever designed as a space game.
04986d No.15199126
>>15187356
What about a planet with combo of hand crafted "civilized/urban" areas and then untamed wilds that are procedurally generated?
75ccc8 No.15200574
>>15181381
>ass effect
>exploration
pick one
3cc927 No.15201087
>>15181134
>I do when I scan it in my ship.
This is the problem with planetary exploration games. You don't explore shit, you just take your ship and gadgets and they do the actual exploring.
3cc927 No.15201098
>>15187505
That's not "reddit wojak" you dumb fucking newfag.
ca7608 No.15204775
>>15181998
>put something on them
I'd love to see this played out but the problem with Sci-Fi is that it's lazy and imagines a mono-culture for each planet. Lacking any nuance.
It would require a stellar design team to flesh out multiple planets at varying degrees of technological progress, imagining the culture of each and making it feel immersive.
Add to that a diplomacy system for the purposes of trade and/or conquering and you'd have a beautiful, in depth game.
But games based on talking and persuading don't really exist. Rather, they aren't in depth the way a TTRPG experience would be/can be. I'd love to see a developer solve that problem. Where the player comes up with the questions and the AI organically comes up with an answer/response. But that's a long ways off.
1f57e3 No.15204782
>>15187092
The thing is that it's not the details or size, it just has to be believable. I mean take Skyrim for example, that map makes no sense because you got towns with no guards or anything near close to bandit-camps and huge fucking monsters. It doesn't make sense.
Take GTA SA instead, that map makes sense, you're in Los Angeles basically with most of the shit in it. You are in a town and therefore there is shit to do. And it feels more natural what you do because it makes sense in that world. It's logical.
f73a33 No.15204788
>thinly veiled nu mans sky shill thread
07f39e No.15204853
>>15187035
There is nothing wrong with thousands of random junk mixed up with gems. This is basically how loot shooters/actions operate. In this case this would be planets.
Problems is creating such core gameplay that makes engaging and meaningful walking on planets surface and looking around. If you exploration operates "hit scanner from the orbit, nothing of value, next!" it undermines job invested in the creation of planets themselves.
I think it may worth trying approach is remove spacecraft from space exploration games. Flying over planets surface is not engaging from human point of view scale. Instead of spacecrafts setting should use some sort of severely limited (by number of exit points and mass transported) teleports moving mechanics, so all planetary movement would be done on the foot or very small vehicles. Walking scale is human and engaging.
>>15187591
>I dont get why you would want to explore several giant planets filled with nothing
Lure of unknown. But not all planets should "be filled with nothing". It should be "you step on the planet and don't know is this filled with nothing, death or treasure, you will know after you search around". Dungeon crawlers? Difficulty is proper mix up ratios of these 3 contents.
07f39e No.15204864
>>15181134
>>15186959
Scanning is thing that kills exploration because it does exploration for you and you have no job/gameplay to do.
944b82 No.15208299
>>15201087
Which I'm fine with if it's a space sim. It's the future. Gadgets SHOULD do the exploring.
>>15204864
Your job is to feed the scanners commands while blasting heavy metal in your space ship.