e618c9 No.15132006
https://archive.fo/ghz3V
https://www.please use archive.ism/2018/07/09/super-smash-bros-director-melee-technical-ultimate-will-accessible/
How does it feel knowing that any and every sequel/follow-up produced in the past decade is designed for no other reason than to disappoint?
351a71 No.15132012
Oh don't worry OP, there will be plenty of people that will insist this game overthrows melee as they pick the game up day 1, and they drop it for something else 3 months after launch. All while crying about the FGC.
77f072 No.15132024
6b2a82 No.15132030
I don't get that mentality at all. When I got melee I was 10, I had no idea people played smash bros. competitively, and I had a lot of fun with the game. I was having fun from the get go, there were no barriers, it was a very accessible game.
So it's not accessible as a competitive game? Who the fuck cares? People who want to get good will get good and will play the game a lot, but if there's no space (or very little space) to get good then less people will play it long term. Making things "more accessible" in the way they do it ultimately limits how much people will replay the game (and maybe that's their goal, they don't want people playing the same game for 17 years like they do melee).
c24a5d No.15132034
>even the devs are now telling tourneyfags to fuck off with their fox only shit
So Smash can go back to being fun? I see nothing wrong.
351a71 No.15132037
>>15132034
They've been trying this for 3 different installments and none of them were fun
27b600 No.15132043
>>15132037
All of them were more fun than melee to me since I mostly played that with my little cousin was all about that final destination shit, only he was a sheikfag instead of a foxfag.
351a71 No.15132046
>>15132043
They're pretty universally reviled for being awful games with unfun game play. I guess casuals post here too.
4ad071 No.15132047
If you unironically think wavedashing is a good mechanic it is my opinion that you are wrong. L-cancels are completely needless inputs. You have to do more inputs to play melee effectively than you do in plenty of real fighting games, and that's NOT necessarily a good thing. The footage that's out right now suggests the game will at least be faster than sm4sh.
b21333 No.15132049
efeac6 No.15132050
Why do retards always post the archive and the direct link, especially how it always gets cut off anyway?
c24a5d No.15132053
You'd not have been disappointed had you not tried playing a children's party game as an fighting game esport, or listened to that community repeatedly tell you it didn't belong.
264bc3 No.15132055
>game has a long-lived competitive scene
>its sequel, brawl, faded into irrelevance before smash 4, which continued its design philosophy of being floaty gay bullshit
>smash 4 will be superseded by ultimate
<lets keep making floaty gay babby shit guys t. hackurai
Melee is to Smash as SF2 is to Street Fighter, but at least they also have SF 3
eb9179 No.15132057
>>15132046
Nintendo is a company that only makes casual games.
e38e51 No.15132062
>>15132006
>Smash 4
>"We'll make it somewhere between Melee and Brawl" <- appeal to moderation fallacy
>it still comes out too slow/casual thus not suited for competitive play
>Smash Ultimate
>"We learned from our mistakes so we're going to make it slower and casualized again."
>meanwhile autists play Melee to this day, the only one in the series with incredibly lasting appeal
>Nintendo is still determined to never re-create that success and instead chase after casuals
6b2a82 No.15132063
>>15132034
Nigger, what tourneyfags do has no bearing on the fun you have. In fact, Sakurai's grudge against them and his insistence on making the games everything they don't want it to be is making the game worse.
>>15132047
>The footage that's out right now suggests the game will at least be faster than sm4sh.
I hope you're right. The game doesn't need all the faggot tech melee players love to be good, it just needs to not be a slog.
6ac6f6 No.15132068
Do any of you trust a word he says? The guy flip flops so fucking often that I question why people even do interviews with him anymore.
c58b2f No.15132069
>manage to make game that is still relevant and loved over a decade after its released
>"no, we made a mistake. every game from now on should be the opposite of that."
I just don't fucking get it. I personally don't care for melee but how could you look at that game and not see that it was a rousing success? At the very least it's allowed them to continue making and selling Game Cube controllers years after the system was discontinued.
2799ac No.15132076
Melee is shit Smash 4 and even brawl were more fun
351a71 No.15132077
>>15132069
The quality of Brawl, the mess that was Smash4 with its split releases filled with backwards decisions should be enough of a hint to let you know that Sakurai definitely doesn't know what he's doing. It's sad, but I don't think we'll have another good Smash game until Sakurai retires from the Smash bros director position.
c83e54 No.15132079
>he's still pulling that "no esports" schtick he's been doing since brawl
>even though tr4sh and smash 4.5 has/had an accompanying competition with known competitive players, the people he's shittalking in this article
Fuck off hackurai. You successfully managed a system in Brawl that completely annihilated any prospect of lasting competitive play and if you kept it in tr4sh it would have been the same way but you didn't. You can't play dumb anymore, you know exactly how to shut down this kind of thing and have known for an enitre decade. Either bring back tripping and characters with 3 recovery options or stop pretending you don't want those sweet stinky day shekels.
e618c9 No.15132085
>>15132075
>>15132063
>>15132053
I just want a good game. I don't give a don't about the tournament scene.
e618c9 No.15132088
>>15132085
>…don't give a damn…
d6281f No.15132089
>>15132076
>tfw there are people that actually believe this
e38e51 No.15132090
>>15132069
<At the very least it's allowed them to continue making and selling Game Cube controllers years after the system was discontinued.
>still making Gamecube controllers
>since players want to use same controller as Melee for Smash
>but let's never give them the same level of competitive gameplay in a modern Smash Bros title
>let's never ever do that
>just give them the Melee controllers, that will shut them up
2799ac No.15132095
>>15132089
Tell me about that interesting Melee meta my dude.
6b2a82 No.15132098
>>15132085
Me too, I'm sure I'll never even think about playing the game competitively in my life, that shit is retarded, but which mentality do you think would be more likely to generate a good game, his current one, or admitting melee was good and trying to make more of that? His autism is sabotaging his own games.
351a71 No.15132100
>>15132090
It has at least made replacements more prevalent.
3df188 No.15132126
>>15132079
>>15132055
>>15132077
After all the years how do we know it's only Sakurai that is making these decisions? There is no way there aren't more devs and shareholders sticking their dicks in the smash-pie and fucking it up as well. After a decade of arguing this we would have some Idea of who else would be responsible for all this shit besides just him.
e38e51 No.15132136
>>15132100
I became so accustomed to the diamond button layout on the SNES controller that the button layout on the Gaemcube controller always annoyed me. The other aspects of it were fine, but that button layout I never liked.
351a71 No.15132140
>>15132126
because if it was shareholders they would see how much demand and how popular melee still is. There's a fucking 4 hours documentary on Melee on Youtube with 2.5 million views. Released 13 years after the game. If anyone else on the teams were making the decisions they would also likely follow these peoples concerns and interests.
It's fucking Sakurai. It's his project at Nintendo, Nintendo wants to embrace him and he does get things done, but he sure isn't making any good games.
e618c9 No.15132144
>>15132126
>After a decade of arguing this we would have some Idea of who else would be responsible for all this shit besides just him.
Anon, he's said that he's been sabotaging the series since Brawl's development, he's said that he's finished after completing each game and he keeps coming back, and this is on top of the fact that's been reported that he's so autistic about the game's details that he shifts a large amount of the development onto himself to the point that it affects his health.
597638 No.15132158
>>15132006
>wanting a game where the meta is entirely based on glitches
>not wanting a party game with a shit ton of characters instead of a FGC approved and signed shitfest
>Actually falling for the fighting game meme
Get thee fucked, sodomy supporter OP.
597638 No.15132163
>>15132085
you're getting a good game ya faggot.
937c3d No.15132176
>>15132006
And so Smash Ultimate will fade into irrelevancy just as Brawl and 4 did before it. It'll be a flavor-of-the-month game with perhaps a year lifespan before it gets forgotten by the competitive scene.
Also
>Melee
>Too technical
I was 8 when I got Melee and I could play just fine. Hell, I was playing Smash 64 pretty well as a 5 year old. I didn't really know how to do more advanced movement like wavedashing but fighting against my brother and friends was great and easy to understand. Melee is exactly what Nintendo should be emulating with Smash, a game that's accessible enough for an 8 year old to achieve proficiency in yet technically complex and difficult to master. Brawl was a mostly fun party game as was Smash 4, but because they lacked the technical depth of Melee they didn't have staying power.
Sakurai has long been proven to be absolutely out of touch with what the competitive demographic wants, I'm sure everybody here remembers the intentional decision to include a chance to trip when repeatedly dashing in Brawl for whatever ridiculous reason. Hopefully with his distancing from Smash 5 there will be more Melee and less Brawl, but I suspect that the dev team at Hal are all on board with Sakurai's crusade against competitive play.
351a71 No.15132177
>>15132163
Smash 5 is gonna be bad.
4dd220 No.15132186
For some reason, Sakurai has a hate boner for anything difficult and competitive (assuming Sakurai is working on this too). Also Smash is one of the few games I know where some people actively want the games to have less depth to spite an audience they don't even play with. Meanwhile most games will have people wanting more depth. As people have said plenty of times, Smash was always accessible. Easy to learn and play, hard to master. But they actively try to do things that make skill ceiling lower which may affect the gameplay negatively like having no momentum from running to jumping and stupid shit like tripping that doesn't benefit casuals or adept players.
Melee being "too technical" was never a problem for casuals and they never cared to get better while adept players loved it because it gave plenty to learn and allowed more variety in play styles. The only reason to do something like this is if you simply hate competitive play for whatever reason (or was a casual who hated fighting people that would destroy them online). It doesn't make the game better. All it does is lower the longevity of people playing as there isn't much room to improve themselves if they decide to want to dig deeper into the mechanics.
>>15132085
Same. The extra depth makes the games more fun.
>>15132158
>Not realizing exploits and glitches can add to gameplay.
Combos in fighting games and rocket jumping are good examples of this. Exploits and glitches turned into features in other games.
2799ac No.15132195
>>15132186
>Melee
>Variety in playstyles
d6281f No.15132204
>>15132195
>he thinks the meta limits variety of playstyles
597638 No.15132208
>>15132186
The difference is that the Street fighter devs saw combos and said: "Shit, that's hype", whereas the Melee devs saw what the three players that actually played it did to the game and literally told them to fuck off. And I agree.
When the entire game's meta is pure rushdown, it's garbage. That's what wavedashing led to. On top of that it turned the fucking game into e-sports garbage, AND CREATED THE CANCER KNOWN AS ESPORTS.
Fuck's sakes, it's like you don't even play games. You're just here to bitch at people.
cc2f93 No.15132210
>>15132006
>meleefags btfo yet again
>this is somehow a bad thing
4dd220 No.15132215
>>15132188
You can make a fun and competitive game without pandering to e-sports. Melee did just that and so did Puyopuyo x Tetris yet both have competitive scenes. The philosophy before was just to make a fun game. Now it's to make a fun game while limiting any sort of depth. Also saying they will replace Sakurai (or whoever is leading this game) with a child rapist tranny is silly. You make it sound like the game is being made by NoA. Now if the game is being made in Commiefornia. Then we should be worried about that.
d6281f No.15132221
>>15132208
>wavedashing created esports
351a71 No.15132229
>>15132215
That's the huenigger, just ignore him and report him.
971032 No.15132230
>>15132208
>but pic related isn't esports and isn't really fucking terrible
The optimal playstyle of the new smash games is to spam safe aerials over and over again in this weird fucked up floaty neutral game or get grab based combos until their percentage is too high. It's boring and gay. The gameplay is bad the hitstun is bad it's just a boring game.
597638 No.15132232
>>15132215
>You can make a fun and competitive game without pandering to e-sports. Melee did just that
Because it existed before esports and created it. Your argument is pointless, esports is trash and if a game contributes to esports it's also trash. Puyo/Tetris is an exception because puzzle games aren't cancer like fighting games end up being in the esports scene, they have a niche and you can't really compare them in regards to community or cancerous effects.
You get drama from people like DSP and Low Tier God, but you don't hear shit about tetris, because the matches they have are civil and they respect eachother.
Seriously, if you've seen competitive tetris the players have NEVER done stupid shit to other players, in part because tetris requires a fucking brain to compete at a high level.
971032 No.15132240
>>15132232
>you never hear shit from puyo and tetris players
Yea same thing you'll never hear shit from WNBA players because nobody cares and nobody watches them play, but you will hear shit from NBA players because people actually gravitate to them.
597638 No.15132242
>>15132204
Fox only, no items, final destination.
Fox was the best character because of his frames, so he was literally the only character used in competitive. competitive limits playstyles, and that leaks into public perception, which contributes to cancer.
The meta determines the playstyle, everyone copies the winner of a tournament, and as a result the game is broken down.
d31b3a No.15132245
Melee sucks, deal with it nerds
Also MONA CONFIRMED FOR SMASH, LEAKED FINAL SMASH IN SPOILER IMAGE
27b600 No.15132261
>>15132046
>universally
Hyperbole is conversation for casuals, you know.
597638 No.15132265
>>15132240
No, you hear shit about NBA players because those nigs beat their girlfriends or some shit and get more marketing.
You hear shit about DSP because he masterbated on screen and is a general narcissistic asshole. You hear shit about Low Tier God because people line up to see his asshole face get owned by a scrawny white kid and randoms on online. You don't hear shit about puyo/tetris because there's no fucking drama. And last I check basketball wasn't exactly a popular sport, not since the 90's.
People are attracted because of the DRAMA. Blood and lolcows "sell". You hear about the FGC because it sucks, you hear about stupid shit because people talk about it. It's called bile fascination, people are more likely to gossip about how someone's being an asshole then how someone's a fucking saint.
You should fucking know this shit from experience. People talk about assholes. Vocal minorities get a megaphone because they're assholes, while silent majorities don't get talked about. You really don't understand people do you?
b21333 No.15132271
For the record
People only still play melee because brawl used to emulate like shit forever.
351a71 No.15132275
>>15132261
Sorry I didn't account for your wife's sons's feelings, I know he thinks tripping was a great mechanic.
294f03 No.15132277
>>15132245
>6.23MB
>JPEG
And you chose to save that of all things.
>>15132265
That should be bleeding obvious to anyone on /v/ because you rarely see discussion about good people. It's always stupid drama.
d31b3a No.15132284
>>15132277
>Implying I don't fap to it on the regular
597638 No.15132291
>>15132277
hell this whole thread was started because a faggot got triggered that smash ultimate was moving the fuck away from esports cancer.
A lot of bitching you hear about is also full of shit as well.
937c3d No.15132295
>>15132285
>Two games ruined by Miyamoto's accelerating senility
For as much as he's done for video games, he's well past his prime.
351a71 No.15132297
>>15132291
Only because autistic faggots get butthurt over competitive games also being esports.
e618c9 No.15132303
>>15132291
>a faggot got triggered that smash ultimate was moving the fuck away from esports cancer
>>15132085
>I just want a good game. I don't give a damn about the tournament scene.
597638 No.15132307
>>15132297
Honestly the fact that the thread was founded on the idea that any game should be close to the fucking sub-par disaster that was Melee is laughable.
If this asshole wants the next smash to be LIKE Melee, why the
FUCK ISN'T HE PLAYING IT?
Why add characters? The game's obviously fucking perfect! Fucking hell, fuck off with this shit.
971032 No.15132309
>>15132265
all you are saying is that the average person is attracted to more boisterous personalities than a bunch of autistes who couldn't draw a dime because of their flat cardboard personality. That's really all you are saying right there.
>ou don't hear shit about puyo/tetris
No you don't hear shit about this stuff because nobody gives a fuck there are probably more people who care about koko the gorilla then these people. If you were to look into the personal lives of most of these people they are probably far from classy. You have the illusion that tetris and puyo players are this epitome of class and gamesmanship for some reason and it's unfounded and really fucking gay. Like you are larping as if you are like some 1950s golf enthusiast watching the greatest classiest game on earth you realize what type of civilization we are living in right?
3a17b3 No.15132310
>>15132024
WHAT IS THE MANGA OP?!
351a71 No.15132312
>>15132307
>why do you want the next smash game to be a good game
I want all games to be good games.
6ac6f6 No.15132315
>>15132271
I played it whenever I felt like dicking around with clones in the melee only stages. And Adventure mode. Brawl was fun for all the content but I can't really go back to it.
>>15132285
It's mind-boggling that there are people here who still buy ninty shit given how much they butcher their franchises. But given this thread, that's clearly not an issue for them.
971032 No.15132317
>>15132303
except smash 4 was a bigger e sport game than melee and had more views and more backing from gaytendo and on top of that it had all the kiddies rooting for their fav fagsmasher.
You realize that ultimate will just be the same fucking thing right.
2ba795 No.15132322
>caring about competitive smash
Go play a real fighting game, you unwashed faggot.
4dd220 No.15132325
>>15132208
>When the entire game's meta is pure rushdown, it's garbage. That's what wavedashing led to.
Was in not a rushdown game before that? Wavedashing is just another movement option and only a few characters can actually make good use out of it. You can play pretty well without using it most of the time anyway. It's L-cancelling that matters much more.
>On top of that it turned the fucking game into e-sports garbage, AND CREATED THE CANCER KNOWN AS ESPORTS.
What? Do you have any source to back that up? Especially when Star Craft has been a thing for ages. Anyways Melee hasn't been modified after it came out and hasn't catered to e-sports people. It just became that when the competitive scene around the US got together to play a fun game that they dedicated some time to. You can still play Melee casually with anyone. There's nothing stopping you from doing so. You make it sound as if those people playing that way stops you from having fun with your friends. You are completely free to ignore the scene. It's like me wanting to make Sonic move in slow motion just to spite speed runners. Why even? I'll just play Sonic the way I do and enjoy myself.
>Fuck's sakes, it's like you don't even play games. You're just here to bitch at people.
Where did you even come up with that? I've played every Smash game and PM for years (except 4 because I found it had too many problems that weren't just gameplay related).
>>15132242
>This whole post
Anon you are only proving how ignorant you are. For one, FD is a stage that helps out people who don't need platforms to do well like Marth. Melee doesn't have many viable characters but to say it's Fox only is retarded. I don't even keep up with the Melee scene but I can tell you're just meming instead of watching any actual tournament footage. You can look up EVO 2017 for Melee and see if it's simply Fox only FD.
>>15132265
Why does this all even matter unless you want to be a part of the (((FGC)))? Your whole argument here is that a game should have less depth because some people act like niggers. PuyoxTetris is fine because they don't act like niggers. Why do you care if you're not going to be a part of that community? Smash has never catered to them to begin with. In fact, devs have been trying to make the games worse to somehow not cater to them instead on just focusing on making the game fun.
351a71 No.15132328
>>15132317
It was weird how hard they were trying to push it on such a poorly designed game. I guess anything to keep it alive. Shit really floundered a few months after it came out though. Threads here especially, once Christmas passed, nobody was talking about it. Shit died.
ccf983 No.15132331
I JUST WANT MOMENTUM TO CARRY OVER TO JUMPS, NO SMASH GAME SINCE MELEE HAS DONE THIS
Fuck wavedashing, nobody gives a fuck about competitive Melee, but there's no reason to leave out speed carrying over when you fucking jump
294f03 No.15132336
>>15132315
You know what's truly shameful? As bad as some of their recent games have been (Metroid, Star Fox, Paper Mario, now Smash) they're still a safer bet than most of AAA.
971032 No.15132338
>>15132328
No shit people here stopped talking about it because it's an objectively bad game. The only people I know who actually still play it are casuals and tourneyfags.
>>15132331
and good hitstun, more custom combos like melee, no more of this safe air dodge bullshit that turns so many games into this gay aerial footsy off with hundreds of invincibility frames(gaymeplay)
3c7f4e No.15132341
>casualizing a party game
lmao
597638 No.15132342
>>15132309
The average person is invested in destroying assholes via rumor and sabatoge. If you fuck with people you'll get fucked. Boisterous is having a party and a beer with the chaps, not complaining like a pussy bitch when you lose a game.
Do you honestly believe that DSP has an alpha personality? Is that idiot your role model? The man who blames every failing in life on everything else? It just shows how much of a bitch you are, resorting to defending what is essentially someone you don't actually like because your pride was injured when people called you out for being a fucking idiot. Come off it m8.
>>15132325
>Was in not a rushdown game before that?
No, it was a gimmicky fighter with loads of characters that operated differently, but wavedashing boiled every character down to frames and speed, until only 3 were viable.
A rushdown game is when the only strategy is to rush someone down from up close, and loads of characters had specials and such that allowed you to use space, chuck shit and zone, and punish via prediction. In the wavedashing meta, none of these quirks matter. All that matters is speed and glitching.
You're willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater for your argument, because you're already set in how you think, and will accept no other answers other then what you want to be true, even when it is nothing but false. This is why you're a faggot.
971032 No.15132346
>>15132342
>Do you honestly believe that DSP has an alpha personality? Is that idiot your role model? The man who blames every failing in life on everything else? It just shows how much of a bitch you are, resorting to defending what is essentially someone you don't actually like because your pride was injured when people called you out for being a fucking idiot. Come off it m8.
Do you think DSP is a relevant competitor and human being? I think you referring to DSP all the time and strawmanning everything I'm saying has more to do with you.
351a71 No.15132353
>>15132342
>You're willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater for your argument, because you're already set in how you think, and will accept no other answers other then what you want to be true, even when it is nothing but false. This is why you're a faggot.
this is projection
e618c9 No.15132355
>>15132310
>>15132024
>Full page provided
>Doesn't use an image search
It's King of Thorns, you lazy faggots.
>>15132317
Yeah, and it's not going to see my money. Also, one thing that's been bother me is that when you see companies talking about how they'll make games like Monster Hunter, Rainbow Six: Siege, and DoA6 more "accessible, you see absolute rage that the companies are chasing a market of players that have no interest in the game at all, nor will ever have any interest even if you gave them the game for free. Yet, when it comes to Smash, people seem to have the completely opposite tone, that Sakurai and the folks over at HAL Lab doing their damnedest to not appeal to the folks that made the game originally successful is a GOOD THING. Mind explaining that to me?
42b752 No.15132356
>>15132310
>>15132024
Reverse image search, refugees.
56778f No.15132370
>>15132062
But smash 4 and brawl both had more sales than Melee
2799ac No.15132373
>>15132353
Does it also project a deeper meta and a wide variety of playstyles making the large cast of characters viable competitively?
971032 No.15132374
>>15132355
>Rainbow Six: Siege
how are they making this more accessable? If anything the game keeps getting more and more complex IDK where this is coming from I mean they removed the quick peeking glitch(but honestly that shit wasn't some skill based tech it was an actual glitch and people that used it were warping their head hitboxes) Besides that I don't see a casualition of that game.
I think a good argument would be SF5 trying to casualize itself but it was totally irrelevant because the game itself was still too hard for casuals to even play(a casual doesn't intuitively understand how these games work things like blockstrings, frame advantage, mixups, etc. just goes right over their heads)
937c3d No.15132376
>>15132291
>esports cancer
Not going to disagree with you that esports are cancer, but gimping a game's depth and complexity isn't a good idea.
For example, imagine if a new Dark Souls game didn't have parrying, guard breaks, or backstabs. The game would devolve into a never-ending parade of fat rolling estoc turtles. When From removed dead-angling in DSR the meta of DSR became more homogeneous. The combat's complexity was reduced by fixing an unintended but effective method for countering a certain playstyle, then that playstyle increased in popularity due to its increased efficacy. It had the effect of further gimping miracle builds (can't dead-angle WoG anymore) and forcing a lot of PvP players to build for dexterity to use the shotel, the only weapon capable of hitting a player behind a raised shield. DSR will probably have a much shorter lifespan that the original Dark Souls because of the lesser combat complexity. The fact that it's also just DS with native dsfix and shitty "HD" textures will probably also kill its longevity, but that's immaterial to this argument
351a71 No.15132377
>15132373
>being this desperate for (you)'s
e618c9 No.15132381
>>15132374
I was trying to think of examples to use, and the only games that came to mind were either owned by Capcom, and/or a fighting game. So, I used Siege because I remember there being some fuss a few months back about Ubisoft needless changing something to make it easier.
294f03 No.15132382
>>>/v/15132377
>not using the one true (You) denier that still indicates a backquote
09b508 No.15132383
muh REAL competitive fighter game!!!!
Good. Maybe Ultimate will finally rid us of all these faggots and Smash can go back to just being a fun party game akin to Mario Party and Mario Kart.
bcadcb No.15132384
>>15132377 (Nice)
I'll give you a (You) for those sick repeating digits
597638 No.15132395
>>15132346
So DSP doesn't have a shitty personality? Despite the fact that you were refferring to them in context as boisterous and actually has a BETTER personality then someone who actually has character enough to not let pride get them on fucking auto-pilot?
The competitive fighting scene is either filled with quiet people or assholes who bitch and boast all day long over twitch reflex no-brain fighting games. You're defending only one. Get a fucking life.
351a71 No.15132399
>>15132382
too much effort to deny a low-effort troll
971032 No.15132414
>>15132395
no I'm just referring to your ignorance of the supposed "COMPETITIVE FIGHTING SCENE" that you hate so much even though you know literally nothing about it and you larp alot about your superior classy tetris puyo bullshit(that nobody but you and like 40 others care about)
If you actually think DSP is relevant or ever was relevant in the competitive fighting scene than your just a clown. He was relevant for like 5 minutes as an actual competitor and he existed off personality shekels and youtube gear reviews.
597638 No.15132421
>>15132376
>For example, imagine if a new Dark Souls game
No. Dark souls is pretty trash, it isn't complex, and doesn't require actual skill because anyone can move through it if they memorize patterns. The game's sluggish in fighting pace specifically so you can memorize patterns and areas.
Now imagine if Melee didn't have the glitch that allowed Wavedashing. more then 3 characters and way more playstyles would be viable. Smash 4 actually has a shit ton of playstyles available, characters have gimmicks that give them specialties, and some characters have odd tactics that allow better recovery (Link's bomb can go off while he's holding it and thus resets his Up Special, which allows crazy recovery tactics if you get the timing down and this has been used in fights)
Link specifically got three variants in Ultimate because of that tactic, all two of which act as versions of link from earlier games, with the new variant acting as a version with a remote bomb and so on.
Smash 4 has a shitload of variety in tactics, because it DIDN'T lose functions, it added a shit-ton, and Smash Ultimate is adding a shit-ton more, de-cloning characters and so on.
To me it sounds like you're arguing for an extremely simple game with only one playstyle, a Ryu vs Ryu, not even Ryu vs Ken. That's cancer, you're dumb and there's a goddamned good reason why the new games won't be made to your orders. Because you're retarded and can't have fun unless you're in an enviroment you're comfertable with.
This is about your personal comfort and your inability to adapt to change. You're behind everyone else and refuse to step forward. Stay where you are then and stay the fuck out of games in general.
4dd220 No.15132426
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>>15132342
Wavedashing has nothing to do with it being rushdown. You can get in on people without that. It has more to do with how you can keep your momentum from running to jumping and you can throw out many attacks by consistently chaining aerial attacks into L-canceling and then following up with another aerial or ground attack. Combine with dash dashing and crouching to cancel running and you're going to have it where most characters can rushdown. Wavedashing is mainly just for positioning to slightly creep in and out of people's attack range. If you don't believe me then you can watch the some gameplay from a recent major tournament.
It sounds more like you don't know shit about the competitive scene except for drama you hear outside of it and are now using that as an excuse to have the game become more casual. To spite niggers, who again, don't even play against you or influence how you play. You still haven't answered why this is a problem for you. We already know they're cancer but why should the game be simplified for that reason?
>>15132395
You retard DSP isn't even competitive and an absolute laughing stock for anyone in and out the FGC. He was never even into real competitive play an no one likes him. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
e618c9 No.15132436
>>15132421
>de-cloning characters
I'm sorry, what? The clones are still there, they just get a fancy name now.
971032 No.15132446
>>15132421
>Smash 4 actually has a shit ton of playstyles available
talks about this like a fag
>(Link's bomb can go off while he's holding it and thus resets his Up Special, which allows crazy recovery tactics if you get the timing down and this has been used in fights)
…. the same type of glitchy gameplay you supposedly hate.
Also if you've ever played project M and or Melee and actually played against Decent link players they always have millions of different zoning strats that you are probably too retarded to even understand anyway since you don't even understand smash.
Now we know you are trash at the game. You realize that against anybody competant at the game everything you stated is totally worthless because you do know that the top tier characters are just the ones with good safe aerials and grab+move/kill combos. You know that the top tier characters were just the characters that usually had more speed and had alot of combos(because smash 4 almost has 0 custom combos most characters are limited to 2+3 hit max combos with bad damage)
The gameplay in smash 4 is counterintutive to actually fighting each other now we know why you like the game so much because you play as link and you like to run around and airdodge with all your invincibility frames and toss projectiles around against shitty players and hate the fact that your ultra defensive style doesn't work in 99 percent of fighting games.
6ac6f6 No.15132462
>>15132336
You aren't wrong, but after that play it proud shit I'm not gonna give any of my money to these people. I don't care if it's not NoJ doing it, my money is still going to NoA and I'm not okay with that.
57be88 No.15132464
>>15132034
They've been "going back to being fun" for 3 god damn games and they have all been getting more and more increasingly shitty, I was fucking disgusted at 3DS Smash, what a poor fucking game, it was even worse than the Wii Smash. Fucking garbage.
2799ac No.15132467
>>15132446
>You don't understand smash
I do understand that the same 3 or 5 faggots keep coming up on top in major Melee tournaments.
2799ac No.15132470
Quite frankly, Melee players really should just fellate a gun. How you idiots can be more autistic than Smash 4 players is beyond me.
cd7385 No.15132471
Personally, I think Tra5h will be great if they
>make L-Cancelling no more and just make landing lag super short on most characters, while keeping some longer landing lag on certain moves
>keep in wavedashing for spacing purposes, perhaps make it even simpler to use
>find ways to make the game more offense-based rather than defense-based (the shield rework helps)
>rework the rage mechanic or just remove it altogether, since it certainly fails to help new players and just makes matches even slower
>give momentum to jumping back (nigger it's a platform fighter, what's one of the first things you think of when you think of platform games?)
And of course…
>finally recognize the best Famicom Fighter and add in Kunio
03de9b No.15132480
>>15132342
>>15132421
Do you have brain damage? Are you actually retarded? Whether or not you like Melee is irrelevant when you are literally posting elementary school tier bullshit like it's actually true. I bet you think Brood War is just two dudes spamming units at each other for 15 minutes, too. I mean, I bet you're such a dumb fucking nigger you can't even tell the difference between a pass play and a run in American Football.
Seriously.
>Link
>crazy recovery tactics
Are you fucking dumb? I bet you checked this spoiler too you stupid nigger.
003099 No.15132489
>>15132006
God himself couldn't get melee players to stop playing melee
971032 No.15132490
>>15132480
the real joke is that he's talking about crazy recovery tactics in the only game that has the most basic bitch ledge game in existence. The amount of invincibility you have off the stage in smash 4 is disgusting.
2d8df6 No.15132494
>>15132047
Melee requires a stupid amount of inputs per second on a controller not design to do that. Next thing you know a bunch of tourneyfags have to go on hiatus because they need to let their wrists recover. Having a game that doesn't need wavedashing or l-cancelling to be fun is just a fun game with less overhead and stupid shit to think about. Ultimate is faster than Tr4sh by a huge amount (Ike is a heavy but he was moving real fucking fast in that invitational) and every competitive player says it rewards aggressive play over defensive play by a lot.
Melee fags can squat in front of their CRTs that are about to burn out and be afraid of soap while I play a fun new game that doesn't destroy my wrists with needless inputs. Also, Ridley. Waluigifags eat shit
>>15132470
By clinging to a game that's almost legal and never bathing
>>15132471
<l-cancelling is no more and landing lag is reduced across the board
<Wavelanding is in but people get enough time with the game to see if wavedashing wroks
<Everyone who played it said that offensive play was the better way to win
<Rage now causes slightly increased hit stun that still allows 2/3 hit combos at higher percents with certain attacks
e618c9 No.15132496
>>15132467
>I do understand that the same 3 or 5 faggots keep coming up on top in major Melee tournaments.
Going by the last 3 years, the same is true for Guilty Gear, Killer Instinct and Tekken 7.
57be88 No.15132497
>>15132470
Smash is fucking shit but the games just keep getting worse and worse, I don't know how the fuck Nintendo does it, it's not like Melee was a terribly good game, how do you make a worse game than Melee with the amount of fucking money you pump into it?
351a71 No.15132500
>>15132494
>proudly proclaiming how much of a casual you are
You'd still have more fun playing melee.
971032 No.15132505
>>15132494
>Melee requires a stupid amount of inputs per second on a controller not design to do that
If you play falco or fox and are dead set on shining everything to death. Most characters do not require this amount of input a basic bitch character like sheik has a bunch of auto cancels and easy as fuck basic combos. Or you can play marth falcon, etc. these are not tech heavy characters unless you have the reflexes of a downie.
937c3d No.15132507
>>15132382
>[Dark Souls is] sluggish in fighting pace specifically so you can memorize patterns and areas.
For PvE, you're right. That's by design due to the challenge the game has for most players. PvP is a different animal because you're dealing with a human player that is inherently unpredictable. Any good PvP player in Dark Souls won't use one pattern for too long because they can easily get punished by that pattern recognition ingrained into their opponent's minds from the PvE. If anything it forces novel gameplay and strategies.
>wavedashing
I'll concede that wavedashing had a negative effect on Melee's meta, there's a reason why "No items, Fox only, Final Destination" is a meme. But the point still stands that some of Melee's intended advanced techniques are either not present in subsequent games or are so gimped that their gameplay efficacy is severely limited.
>This is about your personal comfort and your inability to adapt to change. You're behind everyone else and refuse to step forward. Stay where you are then and stay the fuck out of games in general.
Harsh words, keyboard warrior.
If you read my other posts you'll see that I enjoy both Brawal and Smash 4, this issue with those games is that not only removed mobility options like directional air-dashes or jump momentum but introduced other limiting features like tripping and floaty aerial combat. Smash 4 is a much better game than Brawl because it removed the tripping "feature" but it can feel sluggish and defensive at times.
4dd220 No.15132510
>>15132047
>>15132494
>L-cancels are completely needless inputs. You have to do more inputs to play melee effectively than you do in plenty of real fighting games, and that's NOT necessarily a good thing.
It reminds me of snaking in Mario Kart DS. To even play well, you need to bruise your thumbs on a D-pad to constantly input the drift boosts you need to snake. It just wasn't fun but it was needed to beat those JP players who would just dominate everyone online.
2ba795 No.15132511
>>15132496
Difference between smash and gg is that gg is actually fun to watch.
cd7385 No.15132514
>>15132494
Whoa, that's from the demo test results? If so, then that's pretty damn good.
What people tend to forget about Melee, though, is that not everything about it was found in a day. I was autistic enough, once upon a time well I still fucking am because I've been shilling Kunio hardcore, to watch a documentary about the game's competitive history, and it was a fucking slow build-up to the Melee we know today.
So if we give Tra5h enough time, maybe we could find out different glitchy bullshit that makes things faster. I remember the Bidou freakout with Tr4sh way back when.
971032 No.15132515
>>15132507
>Smash 4 is a much better game than Brawl because it removed the tripping "feature" but it can feel sluggish and defensive at times.
The reasoning behind all of this sluggishness and defensive nature of the game is because you get this airdodge that's nigh unpunishable and most moves are unsafe on block and the game heavily rewards grabs. So when you combine this aerial invincibility with terrible on foot frame data you get that mess.
2d8df6 No.15132521
>>15132500
>Not sucking Melee's dick is being a casual
I had fun playing Melee just 20 minutes because event matches. But Project M and Tr4sh are more fun just on the basis that there are more viable characters in high level play. And characters I just enjoy more than Melee's rosterMegaMan and Snake are fun
cc2f93 No.15132524
>>15132521
>MegaMan and Snake
my nigger.
971032 No.15132525
>>15132521
I will say that I think project m is a better game than melee(because of character viability) the only problem was it wasn't as smooth it was more janky it didn't bother me but there were character and balance issues and weird hitboxes(playing as ZSS in PM was always weird in the way that your hitboxes weren't always where you think they should be I used to drop alot of combos because of this)
92744b No.15132527
>>15132507
>ITT man children cry about a children's game not being designed in a way that frustrates children and stops them wanting to play the online mode
You need to grow the fuck up and move on with your lives. Smash is not designed as an E sport because the online play has to be as accessible as possible to keep children coming back to it. They need an active player base of CHILDREN to sell the DLC characters to. If they join a game and everyone is sliding across the levels like nigger dicks in your mother's cunt then they're not going to continue playing. They're going to go back to minecraft and spend the same money on a spiderman skin instead. It's bad business to appeal to the autistic man children who buy 1 game and then play it for a decade because Sonic has the right colour arms in it. All that time you're playing Melee you're not buying the latest nintendo releases and supporting their console. Short term online replayability is good, autism for games a decade out of print is not.
You might think you're hot shit for grinding out a kids game and learning muh secret techniques but you're nothing but a smelly middle age man who no one wants to put up with. Even among the autistic E sports crowd Smash players have a reputation for smelling like garbage. Not bad, literal garbage.
Grow the fuck up. Take a shower. Sell your switch and use the cash to buy a fucking clue. You're Chris-chan tier and wonder why a large company won't pander to you.
bcadcb No.15132541
>>15132527
>won't somebody think of the children
>we have too many autistic children for games to be good anymore or even have a sliver of depth
2d8df6 No.15132545
>>15132527
>autistic man children who buy 1 game and then play it for a decade
I always find it funny that Meleefags never understood why Nintendo never bothered supporting their shit when it's always been this reason. They want people to buy the new game, if you're putting 50 hours into Melee a week to prepare for next month's tournament, chances are you didn't buy the latest Smash (or any other game for that matter). It's even funnier when they clamor for a Melee HD re-release. Nigger, no one's going to buy that, especially now that Ultimate is on the horizon and you don't even have the excuse of Pichu and Young Link anymore (The only reason why normalfags would purchase a Melee HD).
>Sell your switch and use the cash to buy a fucking clue
Fuck off, faggot. I'll keep and play my Switch because it's fun, a concept that seems lost to many anons
bcadcb No.15132553
>>15132545
>I'll keep and play my Switch
hi mark
971032 No.15132558
>>15132541
exactly
>>15132545
The argument is shit the company obviously just hates melee fans because they shut down PM and they refuse to make a game to fill the void. They can easily just release melee on their virtual console and add an online mode or some shit to shut us up but they won't do that because they clearly just really hate us and want us gone. I mean I don't blame them because yea the "melee community" is pretty out there and fucked but the game itself was good.
4906f8 No.15132560
>>15132558
>implying Nintendo doesn't hate all fangames
92744b No.15132564
>>15132558
>They shut down a competing product that offered an alternative to the one they release while risking losing their trade mark on it
Gee, I wonder why that happened. It's almost like Nintendo want to sell games. I fucking hate Nintendo but I understand why they wouldn't want you ripping off their product and encouraging people to break their hardware. It's not a good reputation to have for a company releasing expensive machines. Piracy tanked the Dreamcast and PSP, saying your most iconic series is best by cracking your systems is stupid.
356de2 No.15132567
I was 8 years old when Smash 64 was released. It excited people the same way that Celebrity Death Match (released just a year earlier) excited people, the potential for otherwise impossible fantasy matchups between people (characters)
If you're interested in Smash for any reason other than this, you're wrong and stupid. It's not a competitive fighting game designed so YOU can test YOUR skill against your FRIEND'S skill, it's a party game so you can create arbitrary fantasy matches between CHARACTERS. The fact that it's even mildly balanced across the original N64 cast was a miracle, and the fact that they bother to continually tweak characters to make them more playable is a boon to the fans and shouldn't be seen as "casualization."
Find a different fucking game to be a fan of.
937c3d No.15132571
>>15132515
>The reasoning behind all of this sluggishness and defensive nature of the game is because you get this airdodge that's nigh unpunishable and most moves are unsafe on block and the game heavily rewards grabs. So when you combine this aerial invincibility with terrible on foot frame data you get that mess.
Smash 4 had a fascination with i-frames in a way that the other games didn't. It really makes matches drag on, a typical Melee match is usually only a few minutes even on 4 stock. A 2 stock match in Smash 4 can take ages if either of the opponents decide to play defensively or play keep away from the other opponent.
>>15132527
>Grow the fuck up. Take a shower. Sell your switch and use the cash to buy a fucking clue. You're Chris-chan tier and wonder why a large company won't pander to you.
You realize you're on an obscure imageboard dedicated to the discussion of video games, right? You've lost all argumentative merit by resorting to ad hominem because you apparently can't fathom the fact that people here are interested in having discussions about their favorite hobby. Heaven forbid if that hobby was forged in childhood, wouldn't want to be a smelly faggot loser like Chris-chan, right?
I don't expect Nintendo to read discussions held here. I don't expect Nintendo to heed the requests from Melee's competitive scene. I'm just some guy opining about a video game series I grew up with in my spare time on the internet.
Perhaps you should go out and buy a fucking clue,or better yet, a video game. It's obvious that you haven't had any fun in a very long while.
294f03 No.15132572
>>15132564
Nah. Most people are honest and buy things. What matters most is whether your system has fun games and the PSP and Dreamcast are generally inferior to the competition.
2d8df6 No.15132573
>>15132553
>Mark
>He doesn't know how many anons purchased switches since piracy is just around the corner
>>15132558
If the company actually hated you they'd shutdown streaming of Melee on Twitch just like they did with PM. Also, they didn't shut down PM because they hate Meleefags. They did it because PM was played by hacking Brawl or your system itself depending on if you wanted a hacked or hackless copy (Most people do hacked because it allows more modding). A console is supposed to be a controlled environment, breaking free of that control is something they can't embrace and for the security of their company, had to shut down.
4dd220 No.15132576
>>15132521
I still think they botched Smash Run and custom moves. 2 great ideas with lame execution. You can't even meet others on the map in Smash Run and it's really something that should have been on the WiiU version while the party mode should have been on the 3DS (though that was a lame mode anyway). On the note of custom moves, they were more interesting than the normal moveset like Palutena's. Giving a ton of the cast a counter move was lazy too.
>>15132527
Only Smash games have people wanting the games to get more and more simplistic despite it being accessible to everyone. And it's never for the actual improvement of the game but to spite a certain audience that has no influence of their enjoyment of the game.
It's also bizarre how people complain about Smash being played for ages on end when people do the same for Street Fighter 2, Puyo, Tetris, Starcraft 2, and various shoot em ups and arcade games. These games never get mentioned by these people though.
2d8df6 No.15132580
>>15132575
>Shit's on competitive play
>While admitting to playing Fortnite
>A game where people are even more autistic about muh mechanics
92744b No.15132582
>>15132571
>You called me out on being a smelly faggot so you lose the argument
Said the smelly faggot playing children's games.
cbde4b No.15132584
Are there any companies who are trying to make their games less shit in sequels? Holy shit. I remember when the point of sequels was just to improve the mechanics of the previous game and add new content, not shit all over what came before it.
Seriously. One fucking series. Please.
bcadcb No.15132585
>>15132575
>And that's why I play Fortnite
EPIC
FOR THE WIN
ccf983 No.15132587
>>15132580
>>15132585
>missing the point of that anon's post
4906f8 No.15132588
>>15132576
I also wanted to like custom moves and equipment, but it's just not as charming as the stickers system from Brawl, despite it being deeper.
937c3d No.15132589
>>15132582
>Said the smelly faggot playing children's games
Not an argument lol
294f03 No.15132593
OK children play time is over now. Off to bed.
bcadcb No.15132598
>>15132587
All I saw was "I play fortnite" so that's all I read.
a3547e No.15132609
>>15132006
It's a party game you autistic faggots.
Drag your CRT to the next pity show you disgusting hunchback.
4dd220 No.15132625
>>15132564
>Piracy tanked the Dreamcast and PSP
SEGA of Japan and their hate for their western division is what caused to Dreamcast to fail the same way the Saturn did. They would actively go out of their way to shit on their western division like making them start a game from scratch that was almost finished or not allowing them to localize many Japanese games. SoJ essentially cut off their own legs just to shit on SoA which really hurt them in the long run. The Dreamcast and Saturn actually have a nice library too, but nearly all of it is in Japanese.
The PSP was Sony's fault. They made the same mistake with the Vita where they dropped support for it early on. Both the PSP and Vita had plenty of great third party titles but Sony had no faith in them. Meanwhile Nintendo gave plenty of first party games to the DS and 3DS. While plenty of people did turn the PSP into a piracy machine, it still had a large install base just like the Vita because they had plenty of good games coming to them. Piracy is just a convenient way for Sony to ditch responsibility. With the Vita they went full retard and added memory cards that were 3-4x the price of a Sundisc memory card of the same capacity to "prevent piracy". They then, again, immediately dropped support of it in one year. So did piracy suddenly kill the Vita or was it Sony?
>>15132584
The Rune Factory series is a great example of that. Too bad the studio went under despite the game making profit. Supposedly, it was due to mismanaging money.
>>15132588
Equipment was really nice and I think it's something they should revisit.
>>15132593
>Tfw no shipslut to put you to sleep forever.
a9f7a9 No.15132650
Sakura considered Melee to be his biggest mistake. And the friction between him and obnoxious [or just passionate] tourneyfags has only really cemented his desire to not want to get involved too much in that fanbase. I mean the fact Melee STILL hasn't been ported yet to modern systems despite a 2 console gen gap between its original release and current year.
He merely disagreed with how Melee was handled by the fanbase. And wanted to find a proper ground with it. Smash Ultimate might be his way of making that dream game. Hence why it has the fewest changes between Smash 4 and now vs Melee and Brawl. He's probably found a smash style he's more comfortable with. Not quite Melee not quite Smash 4. Without any retarded gimmicks that fuck up the game design.
Unsure of if it's him just being lazy/on a time crunch due to the Wii-u's short life cycle or he truly found a style he's comfortable with and just putting on the much needed finishing touches.
2c6ea8 No.15132658
Melee was a beautiful mistake.
Now if they took that same concept of tech skill depth and added in QoL features to the techskills we'd all enjoy it a lot more.
Aka:
If you didn't have to use stupid gimmicks to shield drop better. "One sec can we reset the gamecube?"
If the controllers were designed to be sensitive enough to pick up tap jumps better.
If there was a better visual cue for L canceling or perhaps a layered approach with multiple options for timing and amount of lag to actually cancel.
I dunno. I think they can improve on melee. IMHO brawl minus is the smoothest and most fun you can have in smash right now. Unless you wanna goto a smelly ass tournament.
2c6ea8 No.15132688
Also is it possible that the people who win the tournies are consistently facing off with the same group of people who actually have the free time to goto these things?
cbde4b No.15132696
>>15132609
That is kind of the problem, though. It was casual to begin with and they are acting like it isn't casual enough.
761f42 No.15132739
>>15132030
See anon you're refered to as too good at videogames to be a target audience
4906f8 No.15132756
>>15132751
That's a huge bar of soap in that bag.
e2254a No.15132770
So, with Smash Ultimate losing any chance of being good, what alternatives are out there that are actually worth playing?
ce4110 No.15132786
>>15132770
Slap City is a very good smash clone that I say approaches how good Melee and PM are.
New Medabots game when?
5307a4 No.15132808
40adc3 No.15132811
>>15132006
>How does it feel knowing that everything produced in the past three or more decades is designed for no other reason than to disappoint?
tfw.
eadffc No.15132822
>>15132006
Would more people play melee if someone patched out the obviously broken shit like Ness' yoyo hitbox or the invincibility from stalling onto the ledges? Or if they gave more movement options to the lowest tiered characters? Because Project M kind of still sucked in comparison as far as movement goes.
4906f8 No.15132826
Are Project M or Brawl Minus intended to single player. Could kinda go for playing Brawl again, but want to freshen it up a bit.
fb10c1 No.15132827
I actually felt sick when I read that. I wish I could find the pictures of Samurai shitting on the players. Nintendos problem is their games are too easy and designed for kids and pose zero challenge.
5a0e35 No.15132832
>>15132822
>Would more people play if they nerfed Ness, who is in the bottom 5 of characters
????
e4b35e No.15132841
>ITT: People trying to justify how a party game that is easy to break is going to be better than a party game we don't have yet and vice versa
YOU FAGS ARE GOING AUTISTIC OVER NOTHING
eadffc No.15132854
>>15132832
I'm talking about glitches like this, not the actual character.
eadffc No.15132875
>>15132841
To be quite honest, I don't like the idea that every fucking game on the planet has to have a competitive scene, but I'd really like to see a more polished version of Melee.
Actually one thing that I heavily dislike of smash past Brawl is that they stopped trying to tie every character into the same universe graphically. If you look at Melee, everyone is textured in a way that makes each character feel part of the same world, in Brawl they tried something similar but everything looks like it's been diluted so the textures don't really sell it as much.
5a0e35 No.15132885
>>15132854
Broken shit is what makes games interesting. If Tribes was some boring "take a vehicle over to the enemy base because skiing isn't a thing" FPS, it would have been shit. If quake didn't have bunnyhopping and rocket jumping, it would have been shit.
Sure Ness yoyo glitch might be retarded because it's counter intuitive, but in exchange for a very tricky setup, gives him a one use gotcha move. Wobbling is worse because hurr insta kill from a grab, but it turns Iceys from a garbage character into an actual threat.
There was also that autist complaining about wavedashing earlier when he doesn't realize that without wavedashing, Fox and Falco would be even stronger - their wavedashes aren't that strong compared to others, and they barely need it when they just run up and crouch cancel into upsmash/grab/whatever. What wavedashing does is give characters like Luigi and Samus more options.
I can't understand why people bitch about needing a perfectly balanced game with no glitches. It's impossible to ever accomplish a balanced game, and repeated attempts to achieve it will only dumb down the game and make everything samey.
747fa9 No.15132937
I like Project M better than any Smash game.
>>15132499
Pretty cool.
eadffc No.15132946
>>15132885
I can get behind this. I'm more or less talking about glitches that add unfair advantages (like I said, you can just stay on the ledge indefinitely, which by design is something that shouldn't be) or that just make the game look broken (like the Ness one), but exploiting glitches for movement or fun stuff is a-okay. Also I agree with the balanced sentiment, what I don't agree much with is uncontrollable randomness, since it makes certain characters slightly better or worse and hence unfairer, but given that it's such a minuscule part of the game (unlike this like tripping) it's not as important.
I hate competitive shit because they want everything to be sterile or to adapt to a certain metagame that is perfect in their stinky minds, because you can't play on Pokèfloats since hurr durr platforms move you out of the way das unbalanced. Like, stage hazards that don't actually introduce too much randomness shouldn't be treated so badly.
747fa9 No.15132949
>>15132854
The yoyo-glitch, along with glitches like soulstunner and the freeze glitch are so minor that even when you try, the glitches are incredibly hard to set up, and even harder to execute. Things like wobbling, ledgestalling, spaciekiller and stalling in general are much more apparent in gameplay, since these are much more defined in regular gameplay. Also, what do you mean with broken movement in PM? PM made a lot of characters more mobile, one THE big challenges the PMBR had to overcome in order to recreate a proper playstyle.
b79841 No.15132950
>>15132030
This. All types of games should exist.
Elitists may stick to their inaccessible games if they want. (but in reality they don't want games without noobs to beat so they flock in mass friendly games)
cbde4b No.15132953
>>15132030
You don't undrestand, anon. Games must be aimed at the lowest common denominator so developers can make fat stacks of cash off of retards.
d62d69 No.15132956
>>15132841
Why is it as long as it's smash is suddenly ok to be such a fucking casual? If you don't play at a high level good for you, but actively supporting the dumbing down of a perfectly fine game because it caters to how casual you are is some serious shit.
People want a better smash game and you people come out of the wood work crying muh party gaem. Why don't you people play mario party or something, you'll lose less.
747fa9 No.15132959
Talking about PM: what character do you like best? I am a filthy filthy Zelda main, with Samus, ZSS, Luigi, Marth and a few others as backup.
>>15132885
I wouldn't say Falco and Fox are better without wavedashing, since there are a couple of powerful techniques that require them. However, what your said, without wavedashing is makes more characters relatively worse since Marth, Samus, Luigi, G&W and Dorf benefit heavily from them.
>>15132946
Competitive melee should be played on Pokèfloats only.
8949eb No.15132968
>>15132959
>like best
Captain Falcon
Isn't there an offshoot of PM that tries to add some of the characters and stages they were planning on before they stopped the project?
49fd7e No.15132970
>>15132055
>autistic, soap allergic fags won't stop playing a 16 year old game because they spent way too long learning all the exploits to the point they are damaging their hands, act obnoxious to everybody around them, turn Smash Bros into a laughing stock online
>"hurr why does Sakurai not want anything to do with these failures of humanity"
e4b35e No.15132972
>>15132956
>"The game series that was made for groups of 4 and wacky scenarios was made to be serious and competitive, guys!"
747fa9 No.15132976
>>15132968
Legacy XP (Ridley, Pichu, Dr Mario, Waluigi, Geno, Metal Sonic, Shadow, Lucina, Mage Ganondorf, Yink)
http://www.smashbroslegacy.com/legacy-xp.html
Project M Leaked 3.7 (Lyn, Knuckles, Isaac)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ-tipn-NCc
902001 No.15132977
>>15132006
>>15132012
>Wanting a party game to be technical.
Fucking kill yourself. Seriously just find a tall building and throw yourself from it.
747fa9 No.15132981
>>15132968
> Falcon
Great taste, my brother plays him a lot. I can't handle his aerials, for that I like Schminkledorf better. Punches harder and a little more utility.
b79841 No.15132984
>>15132956
Actual "technicality" caters to lower possible denominator of non gifted dumb insecure retards. Who can't win with superior genetics, decision making and mind-games. Only advantage they have is monkey job of training inputs. What dumb retards need. Sort of grinding superior gear that does more damage. Guaranteed return on teh time investment no brain required. This group is extremely insecure when they face possibility of been striped from this grind advantage and they need to actually think and act to win and not been disadvantaged person with median reactions. This insecurity leaks through every their post.
Really good players win any game regardless of does it have barriers of execution or don't.
902001 No.15132991
>>15132984
You forgot to mention the fact if any of these 40 year old melee fag virgins tried to play a 5 year old kid at Smash with default rules and items on they would get fucking bodied.
f318f8 No.15133004
aa6766 No.15133009
All fighting games are party games
All video game players are smelly
Mario Party shouldn't be used for gambling
b79841 No.15133011
>>15133009
>All fighting games are party games
They were before online.
3be4ed No.15133059
I'm going to throw my .02 in. I was a kid when smash 64 came out. Me and my brother grinded away at that game for hours. We would set it to 99 lives on that Fox level and just go ham on marathons. By accident I fell in love with Kirby, who happens to be the best character in the meta I found out later. But I knew that because I could feel his strengths.
When Melee came out, we gravitated to that one. The controls are much "tighter", I don't know how else to put this, and as such the game was much more mechanically fun. Much in the same way that Super Metroid delivered a level of polish that is widely respected even though you can skip 80% of the game with well timed wall jumps and shinesparks. That doesn't make Super Metroid a shit game just because it has depth, just that it has the ability to be good because of good design intended to provide good gameplay for everyman.
As far as the competitive scene goes, I have no interest. Even though we know fox is the "best", he likes Marth and I landed on Peach. We know about wavedashing but can't be arsed to do that dumb shit, so we just don't. In fact I encountered wavedashing in my play with friends exactly once. A friend of a friend was the state tourney melee champ and he came over to play. He played Gannondorf and proceeded to shit all over us. He did all the competitive bullshit you complain about and it was wild. However, when he left, and we never saw him again, none of us started to feel compelled to wavedash.
I guess my problem with you forced casualization fags Who I would term /v/edditor contrarians is that you take the opposite side of an argument you couldn't care about. People who enjoyed the tighter mechanics of Melee aren't bad because they want tight controls, yet you parrot this lie that meleefags want the game to revolve around one character, one stage, all while doing game glitch move mechanics. I'm here to say NO. I just want them to ATTEMPT a spiritual successor to Melee, tight controls and all, and to remove the gamebreaking shit like wavedashing. I don't need 100 characters, but if you want to include them and make them all decent go for it.
I have never found that Melee was as gatekeeped a game as some vedditors here pretend. My gamecube and n64 sit in the living room and if a friend comes over and wants to get pantsed in the game there is no autist huffing paint in my house who will proceeed to come over and lecture us on our suboptimal play. However, there is no wii/wiiu in our house because brawl/sm4sh were just not replayable games. Whereas melee is replayable because you can develop a level of skill and a play style, Brawl/Sm4sh felt more like a character showcase than a game meant to foster competitiveness between players. Here I don't mean esports, I mean like me who developed a sibling rivalry over a well designed game like melee. I have no spiritual attachment to either one, I just want a decent game that isn't a mess of floaty garbage. Is that so much to ask for?
inb4 vedditor contrarians start screeching about MUH FUN while they never play brawl / sm4sh ever again because it has zero lasting power, so contrarian fags get a moment of fleeting elation they stuck it to tourneyfags while they ruin yet another game
77b2a2 No.15133066
Reminder that the following arguments are used by master baiters angling for (you)s and should be ignored:
>Wavedashing and L-Cancelling are glitches!
>Tourneyfags would get bodied with items on!
>Fox only Final Destination lmao!
>Smash should be made as slow and unappealing as possible or someone I don't like might play it!
These topics have been debunked endlessly and are an indication that the poster is ignorant on the subject of smash bros. with no intention of accepting the facts. Thank you.
49fd7e No.15133082
>>15133059
Nobody cares about some esportsfag's blog post
517093 No.15133096
>>15132063
>Sakurai's grudge against them and his insistence on making the games everything they don't want it to be
All he has to do then is implement chaingrabs and wobbling.
4b6c64 No.15133098
f857f0 No.15133100
>>15133066
>Wavedashing and L-Cancelling are glitches!
They are glitches. Just like Street Fighter 2's cancels were glitches. Doesn't mean they didn't become one of the most important parts of the game.
Melee-fags remind me of Quake-fags.
Q3A fills this fucking niche that they insist should be catered to, but then when something else comes along in the genre it doesn't cater well enough to the hardcore audience that won't touch anything else, so it gets ignored, or it does cater to that audience almost perfectly, but then they ignore it because they already have Q3A and the game is just Q3A but without the balance and breadth of mods and maps.
Melee is a fun party game, but holding it as some example of tourney-worthy competitiveness when you have to ignore 90% of the actual content and abuse glitches that weren't intended and which were intentionally removed in later games (unlike Street Fighter's cancels and combo system), you're kidding yourselves and it's embarrassing for everyone around you.
6322d0 No.15133102
Good. Fuck Melee's community.
75a96d No.15133109
>>15132959
does pm still have a good netplay scene?
i really enjoyed squirtle but lots of the other characters seemed interesting too
3be4ed No.15133113
You know I can see what they mean about Mark's /v/ being total dogshit with all these misanthrope contrarians here.
747fa9 No.15133127
>>15133109
I'm from Europe, PM is not really played a lot but melee is. I played some netplay before, pretty fun. There are a few PM inclusive/exclusive tournaments but Smash 4 and Melee are much more popular.
0dafea No.15133133
>>15133096
>wobbling
>instant tourneyfag salt
Yes. It'll make up for ICs being complete horseshit in this game.
6e0026 No.15133134
>>15132006
So no busted fox or metaknight? Good!
Competitive party games are the saddest shit. Imagine mario kart tournaments.
6e0026 No.15133142
>>15132956
>Why is it as long as it's smash is suddenly ok to be such a fucking casual?
Because it's a game for children you 30 year old boomer.
254241 No.15133144
>>15132625
>Equipment was really nice and I think it's something they should revisit.
they should make them not be fucking random drops
baa3cb No.15133145
Can we stop pretending that Smash Bros Melee is somehow a superior fighting game for leet kids? All Smash games are casual shits for children. Mastering their ugly mechanics only makes you a loser.
aa6766 No.15133149
>>15133142
>current halfchan maymay
Why don't you go back there where you belong?
4aa5e4 No.15133157
>>15132625
>SEGA of Japan and their hate for their western division is what caused to Dreamcast to fail the same way the Saturn did.
oh no someone else was around when it failed. I remember the funco land dreamcast dump. all the god damn sports games and only 1 or 2 copies of the good stuff it's like sega wanted to fail. whats that you want evolution? oh well heres like the one copy for your area. 300 copies of nba 2k thats what you fuckers need.
254241 No.15133161
>>15133145
>Can we stop pretending that Smash Bros Melee is somehow a superior fighting game for leet kids?
but we're not. it's just apparently superior to the other smash games.
>a loser.
Normalfags out
6e0026 No.15133162
>>15132575
>And that's why I play Fortnite.
Opinion discarded.
e39063 No.15133176
Oh boo hoo, my overtly autistic nigger-loved fighting game will not be shit anymore!
aa6766 No.15133185
>>15133164
>thinks games should be casualized
>uses 4chan memes
>"I'm not 4chan! You are just bad at games!"
8eaf81 No.15133192
The problem with any of these games from a competitive sense is how limited you are. I don't mean items and such, though it's stupid, rounds with items would be entertaining to see. It'd be more like Mario Party and the like. Still, I get why they don't want to use them. The issue here is that you're beyond limited with Melee. Fox Only Final Destination is a joke, sure, but it's an exaggerated reality. Depending on what group is playing, you're limited to what, seven characters? Seven characters, and even then, certain methods of play are banned entirely because they said so. That, and the reliance on glitches, actual glitches, is just Mario Kart-tiers of annoying.
>>15132580
>Fortnite
>mechanics
You mean the mechanics of bullets not hitting your enemy despite you having perfect aim because or the roll of a die? Great fucking mechanics.
>>15132564
Games are different from consoles, very different. The PSP is still considered a success, even if a distant second behind the DS, and that's because of Europoors figuring piracy out quite quickly. That's the exact reason Europoors loved the PS1 and the PS2. Piracy sells consoles, it just doesn't sell games, but like usual, those people would not have bought the games otherwise, so there's no loss.
aa6766 No.15133193
>>15133162
>couldn't even detect sarcasm as well
Again, go back to halfchan.
88a5e9 No.15133204
what this guy said:
>It’s cute how he is acting like wave dashing was an intended mechanic for technicality when it’s actually a glitch. They really try to act like that was an intended mechanic when they already said it was a glitch.
It won't be "too technical" as in allowing exploits and unintended mechanics, that's literally it. Melee is and always was as accessible as any other smash, it's what is objectively an exploit that made it "competitive". This is people talking past each other and wondering what the fuck the other side is saying
6e0026 No.15133218
>>15133185
>doesn't even deny he's shit at games
6e0026 No.15133220
>>15133193
>And that's why I play Fortnite.
ID WAZ JUZD SARGASM :-DD
Fucking neck yourself now.
77b2a2 No.15133222
>>15133100
You're the one who should be embarrassed, m8. L-Cancelling is literally an intended mechanic held over from 64's "smooth landing" that was pointed out on the official fucking website.
I mean, I know I'd be embarrassed if I was spreading misinformation that a 5 second google search would prove wrong.
Wavedashing is debatable, but it has been shown that they were aware of it before release and chose to leave it in.
aa6766 No.15133223
>>15133218
>Doesn't even deny that games should be casualized
>"I-i'm not shit at games! You are!"
Again, halfchan is more to your liking.
8eaf81 No.15133227
>>15133222
>Wavedashing is debatable, but it has been shown that they were aware of it before release and chose to leave it in.
More like they left it in because it wasn't technically game-breaking and Melee was the most rushed Smash game. It's why there are also actual softlocks in the game as well.
cb5dd6 No.15133231
translation
>fox isnt in his own tier and im angry yiff yiff yiff
aa6766 No.15133242
>>15133220
>"No it's definitely serious because he said fortnite."
Literally right after that statement:
<Oh wait, this thread is actually about Smash? That's great, because now what I wrote above will somehow be considered wise and knowing instead of a shit-tier casual opinion like it would be for every other game series.
Again, your reading comprehension nets you a trip back to halfchan.
f4b5ac No.15133275
>>15132575
>Honestly reddit has better discussions about Melee than you fucking retards.
Fuck off back there then you faggot
077b20 No.15133289
The techincality in melee was based on abusing broken and unecessary mechanics.
I'm still baffled on how z-cancels was a thing. Why the fuck make you have to react to a thing that YOU did in the first place? It's like making you slap your knee everytime click a link so you get less loading time on your webpages, fucking pointless. You're already using the move, that's enough. There's no reason not to L-cancel and it's not based on a respnse to something your opponent does, might as well make it automatic.
cb5dd6 No.15133327
lets talk about NIGGERS
who is your favorite playable NIGGER confirmed for smash? ill tell you who it isnt, its waluigi. because although he is a NIGGER he is not playable he is confined to an assist trophy like the animal crossing dog wife. unlike the NIGGER dragon named ridley who is playable
294f03 No.15133346
>>15133327
Play modded Smash Bros. Brawl. That's got all the Waluwege you need. Also Ridley.
ba2e53 No.15133347
To put it this way, if you make a game whose sole aim is to be 'fun' while largely disregarding balance and depth that makes competitive play unfeasible, then that game is effectively disposable, especially once another similar kind of game comes around, or a sequel. Like, why would you play an earlier game in a series of games which are all essentially party games? Why would you go back to play Brawl or the original N64 game? If you want a fun casual fighting romp, why does it need to be Smash? Why not play Mortal Kombat or JoJo ASB instead? In this case, most people just veer to wherever the largest playerbase is.
For example, I often see a sentiment that tourneyfaggotry ruined Quake 3 and all the fun in Quake 1 and 2, the fun in this case being unbalanced FFA deathmatches or instagib or if Quake Live is any indication: Clan Arena. Clan Arena fucking everywhere. However, without that tourneyfaggotry, there is very little that would make Quake stand out to its contemporaries. Most multiplayer modes in shooters at the time were all the same shit but with different weapons, maps, modes, and movement quirks. Q3A merely offered a higher skill ceiling for players to keep playing it in order to get better at it, and to this day people still play Q3 because there's nothing else quite like it. Q3A can hardly be considered disposable the same way the multiplayer in games like Duke Nukem or Blood can. Like, I recall reading a developer post on the multiplayer mode of DUSK where they said they weren't really going to bother with making it comp-viable because they predict the multiplayer mode isn't going to grow a persistent playerbase anyways.
Most long-standing multiplayer communities which aren't competitively oriented need a constant stream of new mods to maintain interest and keep things fresh, indicating that the vanilla gameplay itself isn't quite enough to keep people hooked, though console games don't quite have that luxury. If there's no high enough skill ceiling to have players getting better and better and playing the game more, then you'd have to mix up the game itself instead if you want people to keep playing it.
Now, as to whether a multiplayer game needs to be competitively viable or just fun enough to hook as many people in as possible (for at least one year until the next sequel comes along) is entirely up to the lead and what kind of game they want to make. There's no point in trying to force eSports into something that was never really designed for it, unless some bugs and glitches make it possible. Understandably, there are many who got a whiff of what was and what could be in Melee, and would like to see a proper follow-up to it where all the interesting things about it aren't the result of coincidence. Deeper gameplay should allow for more varied and interesting situations to deal with, though this ideally shouldn't be pursued by a myriad of hidden mechanics whose difficulty of execution is so minimal that it merely provides and advantage of knowledge for those who trawl strategy guides to death.
6ac6f6 No.15133353
>>15132464
You're a faggot, the 3DS version was the best version.
>>15132575
>fortnite
>reddit
>muh tourneyfags
Der TORposter
8eaf81 No.15133357
>>15133347
> Like, why would you play an earlier game in a series of games which are all essentially party games?
Your argument can be entirely dismissed by the simple fact that everyone has their own favorite Mario Party game, despite them being all "largely the same", and the fact that the N64 games still get love despite us now having 15 or so games in the series.
39b148 No.15133368
REMINDER MELEEFAGS ARE THE WORST SMASH FANBASE
Remember when people complained about smelly smash players? those were the meleefags
39b148 No.15133371
>>15132875
why are they called VoDs and not just fucking videos?
ba2e53 No.15133372
>>15133357
>our argument can be entirely dismissed by the simple fact that everyone has their own favorite Mario Party game, despite them being all "largely the same"
True, the only thing which makes an earlier 'party' game more worth playing are either some superficial details which never properly made their way to the sequels or weren't done quite the same way. With games like these it's hard to define what can be considered an improvement, so it's usually the quantity of content or some other superficial or not-so-superficial details which makes people prefer one over the other, to the point where the entire matter can be considered one of personal taste. These aren't the kind of games where you prefer one over the other because of objective flaws or improvements in terms of gameplay, unless it's a very broad consensus.
6ac6f6 No.15133386
>>15133368
>Remember when people complained about smelly smash players?
You mean Kotaku?
eadffc No.15133395
>>15133327
>ywn play as Garcian Smith
feels bad
b79841 No.15133404
>>15133347
Meanwhile most long standing and very popular now FPS that completely dominated Quake series (that are dead now) is Counters Strike. Which core gameplay is clicking on pixels. Zero entrance execution barriers and zero depth of skill ceiling. Skill is just clicking on pixels few milliseconds faster than your opponent. But also there is no ceiling of been faster than opponent by definition.
>complexity? depth?
fuck them lol
ba2e53 No.15133413
>>15133404
>Which core gameplay is clicking on pixels. Zero entrance execution barriers and zero depth of skill ceiling. Skill is just clicking on pixels few milliseconds faster than your opponent. But also there is no ceiling of been faster than opponent by definition
If you have trouble trying to express yourself in English, you can just try it in Spanish.
d0d89e No.15133424
>>15132208
>And I agree.
Which is why the playerbase shrank a bit because they took this stance.
>When the entire game's meta is pure rushdown, it's garbage.
So smash has always been Garbage until we got characters like Rosalinda who is an honest to god Puppet character?
>On top of that it turned the fucking game into e-sports garbage, AND CREATED THE CANCER KNOWN AS ESPORTS.
You don't know your history at all if you think Smash wavedashing led to the creation of E-sports. Stuff like DOTA and Quake Arena before that were vastly more foundational and the FGC is actually late to that bandwagon by over a decade.
>Fuck's sakes, it's like you don't even play games. You're just here to bitch at people.
The irony of this post. Smash is a game that for at least one iteration, was capable of drawing in a casual audience as well as a more dedicated hardcore following. But for some reason Nintendo doesn't like the idea of people playing older iterations of their games and have decided to shun the people who still play Melee. Some of this is justified as the Competitive melee community is absolute cancer. The rest isn't as it's just them trying desperately to control how people can enjoy their game when a couple glitches and bugs created more depth to gameplay for a minority of users in the end.
77b2a2 No.15133442
>>15133289
You're basically arguing against timed hits in Mario RPG's with your logic and timed hits are the shit.
817cb9 No.15133461
Don't care will still enjoy it because I have friends
f857f0 No.15133471
>>15133457
I don't think I've seen bait of this calibre for quite some time. It has just about everything you'd expect.
> TOR posting
> redditing
> thesaurus abuse
> Nintendo fagging
> Melee-is-a-serious-game-guise
> 2deep4u "you must have an IQ of 150 to even understand my post" statement
It really is a work of considerable effort. Well done.
Polite sage for responding to bait, even if it's really well done.
b449cc No.15133482
>why doesnt this huge company pander to millions of children instead of a bunch of adult smelly autists with no jobs who play a party game "competitively"
yeah … we will never know why i guess
49fd7e No.15133485
>>15133457
Reddit is having 'insightful commentary' about a game designed to let Luigi beat the shit out of Mario with a baseball bat? Let me guess its Luigi's repressed transgender identity lashing out at their father abusing them as kids?
ba2e53 No.15133492
>>15133457
>>15133481
you're right, but you're also a massive faggot
294f03 No.15133493
>>15133485
Believe it or not you can actually find useful information on some subreddits. Maybe stop being such a subhuman who makes knee-jerk responses with no actual thought behind them.
f8d109 No.15133631
>>15132575
I recognize this pasta
dc13de No.15133638
>>15133457
>"best" behavior, put up with the shittiest, corniest jokes and some occasional faux-wholesomeness (although that's just the common imageboard tendency to think that constant textual aggression and contrarianism makes you cool and superior in reverse), and not indulge in any wrongthink, but that shouldn't be a problem if you just want to discuss a video game. Give it a try.
Definitely sounds worth it just to auto-filter shitposts.
351a71 No.15133680
>>15133368
>calling kotaku people
reminder journalists need to be shot
3d4b8d No.15133692
>>15132006
Except nearly everything that has been shown about Ultimate shows it having more tech than 4 and close to the amount of tech that Melee had
3d4b8d No.15133696
>>15133386
>>15133680
Literally everybody complained about Melee players smelling bad years before some retarded Slowpokes at Kotaku latched onto the joke, quit being fucking stupid.
351a71 No.15133700
>>15133696
>defending reading kotaku
reminder journalists need to be shot
49fd7e No.15133703
>>15133493
>Maybe stop being such a subhuman who makes knee-jerk responses with no actual thought behind them.
Maybe take your own advice and read posts before responding.
294f03 No.15133714
>>15133703
Yeah it's a satirical post. But it perfectly demonstrates a problem with the users on here: rejection based on source rather than merit. As the saying goes in open source, "shut up and show us the code".
d17b88 No.15133718
>thinking melee is technical
>needs to have wavedashing as a glitch with no actual moves brought about by it like EWGF
>"combos" in the same way Mario combos koopas to get a 1-up
d0d89e No.15133725
>>15133714
>But it perfectly demonstrates a problem with the users on here
This is true on any site because tribalism is so engrained into all these communities.
b24295 No.15133726
Ultimate > Melee = Sm4sh > 64 >>> Brawl
ccf983 No.15133731
>>15133726
>saying that before the game is out
we haven't even seen what singleplayer looks like
351a71 No.15133733
>>15133726
>smash kiddies can only pretend the newest games are better while they're unreleased
006e4f No.15133740
>>15133714
Maybe if you stopped being a stupid marxist kike people would bother telling you to tie your own noose instead of slicing your own throat.
e10dd4 No.15133747
>>15132006
>>15132030
Wavedashing isn't hard at all, but Smash was always a shallow party game. If they want it to be competitive, then they should play other legitimate fighting games.
muh quarter circles and dps are so hard tho
294f03 No.15133749
>>15133740
If the best you can do is regurgitate /pol/ speak as an "argument" then piss off. Even the worst community framework can have people of value on there. Else disregard basically every console hack on Github.
2a6835 No.15133765
>>15132496
At EVO last year, MarlinPie (one of the best GG players in the U.S.) nearly lost to some guy no-one had ever heard of in the second round of pools. Down-to-the-wire upsets like that simply don't happen in Melee, and if they do then you're watching top 16 or something.
DreadedRuffian, a NY player, improved so much over the course of 2017 he won a big tournament and beat a bunch of the region's strongest players to do so. That kind of change doesn't happen in Melee, at least not in that timeframe.
cc6f74 No.15133770
Yet people will defend this and the faggots here will eat it up just like they did with MonHun World where everyone acted offended over the casualization before release just to admit that they were playing it in Friday Night threads. I'm not saying that people can't play whatever the fuck they want but, you fags who buy this are knowingly contributing to the dumbing down of an entire media form.
Guess I'll just stick to Melee for another decade.
351a71 No.15133772
>>15133765
>because this doesn't happen in melee it's ok for every smash game to be worse than melee
what's your point?
254241 No.15133776
>>15133770
>Guess I'll just stick to Melee for another decade.
Why not make a new game yourself
4defe0 No.15133778
>>15133770
>Guess I'll just stick to Melee for another decade
Have fun eating shit for another decade while the rest of us play SSBU.
f77ffa No.15133780
>>15133726
you seem trustworthy
026bfa No.15133784
>>15133776
shit, a decade is a long enough time to make a game as good as melee right?
cc6f74 No.15133785
>>15133776
I have definitely thought about it but I'm a terrible artist and I can't code so if I ever decide to learn how and make something it's probably going to look terrible.
d0d89e No.15133790
>>15133765
Allow me to make an assumption but I don't think as many people are jumping into Melee as other fighting games. I want to argue that it has more to do with the Melee competitive scene being more stagnant than others as people who are new to Smash generally play the most recent version, same as GG players moving to Xrd and abandoning +R in droves.
I could be wrong though about that but it's still true that most high level competitions will see the same people in Top 8 in a lot of games.
254241 No.15133791
>>15133784
maybe, if your not a depressed good-for-nothing like me.
e10dd4 No.15133793
>>15133770
MonHun was Hardcore to Casual
Smash was Casual to Casual in every iteration
It's like complaining that Mario Party isn't hardcore with it's minigames.
026bfa No.15133795
>>15133791
aww shit ill drink to that
cc6f74 No.15133798
>>15133793
Say that to me while I mop the ground with your ass as Jiggly.
351a71 No.15133800
>>15133778
>playing a shitty game for a few months because it's new and not the reliable classic
026bfa No.15133806
>>15133800
>incest with grandma
jesus christ anon
e70e9a No.15133812
Smash 4 was more entertaining to play, and watch. Melee faggots ain't worth pandering to.
Only complaint with 4 was it was a bit slow, but after playing ultimate, they fixed that problem. Really can't wait, tbh.
254241 No.15133818
>>15133812
>Only complaint with 4 was it was a bit slow,
and the random customization
and bayonetta and cloud
cc6f74 No.15133819
Here's a shitty meme made by some desperate Ultimatefag. The absolute delusion.
d6281f No.15133835
Why does every thread that even mentions Melee have to turn into a baitfest?
38afe4 No.15133837
>>15133819
>ultimate will be the greatest thanks to just one character.. that will be nerfed with patch and replaced by DLC character
what's the deal with ridley anyway? isn't Ridley is to smash5 what sonic or snake was to brawl?
254241 No.15133844
>>15133837
>what's the deal with ridley anyway?
basically metroid bowser
026bfa No.15133848
>>15133837
ridleyfags are reptilian underlings and they want dragon penises shoved up their submissive ass until they prolapse
c415e7 No.15133849
The long and short of it is that Meleefags want Melee. And they already have Melee.
So nintendo is going to cater to everyone else instead of the people who are going to inevitably drop it and head back to Melee. They’re not about to try and make lightning strike twice at the expense of intimidating the casuals.
026bfa No.15133854
>>15133849
lightning is the best girl though
c415e7 No.15133858
>>15133854
Good jokes mate
351a71 No.15133863
>>15133837
metroid fans desperation to get another rep despite the series built almost entirely on one character. Metroidfags are the worst Nintendo fanbase.
>>15133849
>So nintendo is going to cater to everyone else instead of the people who are going to inevitably drop it and head back to Melee
so, everyone? Nobody plays nusmash games for more than a few months. After that, it's nothing or back to melee.
ccf983 No.15133878
>>15133837
More villain representation in Smash is always good tbh
254241 No.15133881
>>15133849
>at the expense of intimidating the casuals.
but casuals shouldn't be pandered to.
>>15133863
>Metroidfags are the worst Nintendo fanbase.
>what is Fire Emblem
351a71 No.15133885
>>15133881
>what is Fire Emblem
fractured and claiming nothing of value
df8cda No.15133889
>>15133819
I just noticed the guy was so retarded that he put melee last in chronological order as if ridley is in melee
254241 No.15133898
>>15133889
no, melee is the grim reaper visiting the other smash games. pay attention.
8eaf81 No.15133901
>>15133881
>but casuals shouldn't be pandered to.
But in this case, they get nothing out of pandering to the "hardcore".
An example of them pandering to casuals would be if they decided to only make 2D Mario games, since they historically sell far better than 3D Mario. But, as Odyssey at least has proven, 3D Marios do sell still, so they still make them.
With Smash, though? There's a dedicated subset of autists who would love a remake of Melee for a week, then fuck off back to their CRTs and Gamecubes ,whereas a marketing ploy like "everyone is back" will print money.
Does the fact that Mario 64 is the most popular speedrunning game mean that they should only print remakes of Mario 64? No, and that's also why a small insignificant group of vocal autists has no impact on new Smash.
>>15133885
So is Metroid.
d0d89e No.15133902
>>15133889
That picture is of Melee being the grim reaper probably since it's lifespan has outlasted any of the previous titles but it's going to die to Ultimate.
>>15133863
>Metroidfags are the worst Nintendo fanbase.
How do you figure? At worst they wanted the only other noteable figure in the entire franchise as a playable character. I've yet to meet an obnoxious metroid fan outside of people who think that Other M was a good direction for the series to take.
ccf983 No.15133906
>>15133901
To be fair, I'd pay full price for a remake of SM64 if it kept all the bugs from the original and had the same visuals as the old promo renders did
f54e57 No.15133919
can't they just like make game
8eaf81 No.15133944
>>15133902
I hate Metroidfags for the bitching they did over Freeze Dong. I get being upset over not getting games, but I've never seen Starfox or F-Zero fans go out of their way to shit on another series for supposedly killing theirs like that.
026bfa No.15133946
>>15133898
>>15133902
>melee is the reaper
oh shit im a dumbass i was so confused
be1354 No.15133976
Ignore everyone defending this, it's just r/kappa leaking again
f54e57 No.15133989
>>15133963
>fat aras
>suction cup nipples
The veredict is your taste is shit.
d0d89e No.15134023
>>15133944
>I hate Metroidfags for the bitching they did over Freeze Dong
If that's it, that was nearly 5 years ago. How much did you really suffer from that? I'm not even defending it, I wasn't even aware people got that mad Retro worked in a metroid reference, but it seems like a really small and petty reason to declare the metroid fanbase the worst over than any other that isn't dead.
8eaf81 No.15134029
>>15134003
When this was announced as Retro's next game, Metroid fans were pissed because they wanted Prime 4 so bad. The media, too. Every headline was "Retro's next game is another damn Donkey Kong".
>>15134023
I suppose "hate" is a strong word, but they just showed themselves as more obnoxious than other fanbases, that's all. And when you manage to be more obnoxious than literal furfags, that says a lot.
e618c9 No.15134041
>>15134029
>And when you manage to be more obnoxious than literal furfags, that says a lot.
Can you really blame them when the "Creator of Metroid" shit all over the fans, developers, and everyone else within earshot the way that he did?
747fa9 No.15134044
>>15134029
Of course, I am such a fucking retard
9578bf No.15134048
>>15132950
>Elitists
nintendo makes games for kids, not "elitists"
e618c9 No.15134051
>>15134048
Thanks for reminding me of this.
61a64c No.15134070
>>15132006
Well yes, I've been saying for years that Sakurai needs to stop making fucking smash games. Leave it to the younger staff.
d0d89e No.15134076
>>15134041
Gunpei Yokoi must have been rolling in his grave when that abomination came out.
>>15134029
>And when you manage to be more obnoxious than literal furfags, that says a lot.
I wasn't aware of the outrage, I can see why people would be clamoring for a new metroid game to get the taste of Other M out of their mouth. I'll just have to take your word that they are worse than Sonic autists or Fire Emblem waifufags or Nintendo Treehouse translation enthusiasts.
747fa9 No.15134104
>>15134041
I got really pooper puckered by your second image, have a better one
8eaf81 No.15134107
>>15134076
Sonic doesn't really count as Nintendo, I wouldn't think. As for the other too, I honestly haven't met anyone who really specifically likes the new games over the old ones. They're just normalfags who play it because Nintendo made it. Same with people defending localization, they're just uninformed normalfags.
9578bf No.15134111
>>15134051
>that pic
who the fuck said that? (((journalist)))? or actually someone at nintendo.
nintendo makes babby games. people who get competitive about babby games are an embarrassment. imagine being a game creator, and you make a game for children, and a bunch of fedora wearing adults and niggers are the only lasting players who found a way to modify the rules and use it as a way to challenge eachother. so the only lasting memory of your game arent happy childhoods, its niggers and memesters screaming at eachother in a dirty hotel conference room.
it'd make any sensible person ashamed of their creation.
imagine if someone found a way to make hungry hungry hippos competitive, and now whenever someone says it, they think of a bunch of niggers and manchildren in a dirty room talking shit and playing the game competitively, even fighting over it. how proud would you be to say that you invented hungry hungry hippos?
9578bf No.15134160
>>15134142
wanting to "open up" to more mature 3rd party games to increase console sales doesnt negate the fact that nintendo makes babby games.
b52167 No.15134184
>>15132370
No fucking shit.
>Sequels are consistently more popular than their predecessors, barring outliers
>There are more people playing videogames now than ever before
>Gamecube is one of Nintendo's worst selling consoles (20 million vs 100 million for the Wii)
Plus you really think that if they made it a little more technical, some fucko is going to walk into a store, see Smash and think "Oh no, that looks too technical, not gonna buy"? Most normalfags weren't and still aren't even aware how technical melee can get.
Fucking 8chan let me post holy shit
f06aea No.15134197
>>15134160
Please give an example of games for proper adults, senpai.
9578bf No.15134208
>>15134197
that nintendo makes? none.
that nintendo wants to come to the switch to increase console sales? theyre probably thinking of stuff like resident evil, bloodborne, mgs5, etc.
b52167 No.15134214
>>15134197
>inb4 the last of us
294f03 No.15134220
>>15134208
How'd Toddrim do on Switch? They've interested Senran Kagura devs at least but it's still in the air whether other such games will migrate with Sony's recent mismanagement.
9578bf No.15134236
>>15134220
click the numbers next to the post number to see what i, and the person who replied to me were responding to so you can get some context, newfriend.
61a64c No.15134247
>>15134111
>nintendo makes babby games
>Eternal Darkness is a babby game
7531b9 No.15134252
>>15132006
>How does it feel knowing that any and every sequel/follow-up produced in the past decade is designed for no other reason than to disappoint?
You tell me. I don't have such a solipsistic worldview as to think everything is designed specifically for how I'll react to it.
294f03 No.15134256
>>15134236
That article is pretty ancient and doesn't indicate much. I guess there's also Dark Souls but I'm not seeing anywhere near the amount of lewd Nip games that was the Vita's mainstay.
0802bb No.15134285
Correct me if I'm wrong, but ins't the way you can use attacks to cancel your dash, is basically the same utility as wavedashing?
9578bf No.15134288
>>15134247
>has to go back 15 years for an example of nintendo not making a babby game
>game isnt made by nintendo.
kek.
747fa9 No.15134290
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15134285
I think it has way more lag, but they might have added that as a substitute for wavedashing. I saw this video a few days ago, it explains it pretty well I think.
351a71 No.15134304
>>15134285
No, it's not the same thing.
f06aea No.15134305
>>15134208
So in your opinion are those proper adult games?
d0d89e No.15134312
>>15134305
> are those proper adult games?
What does this mean? Is this a rating thing, are you making a comment on story elements or maturity of presentation?
3dd9a3 No.15134330
>>15134290
>youtube
fuck you faggot
9578bf No.15134348
>>15134305
i never said anything about proper adult games even existing. but babby games definitely do exist. why dont you just come out and make the point youre trying to make instead of arguing like a kike?
471ef5 No.15134411
>>15132006
Melee is only popular with tourneyfags because Melee was broken as shit and a select niche group of autists figured out how to play with the brokenness, claim it was "technical depth," and refused to ever leave. They are not a niche worth pandering to not only because it would be unprofitable but also because they are a laughing stock among everyone outside of their insulated, stagnant community.
All Ultimate has to do is fix shit that was wrong with Sm4sh and it'll be an alright game. And fuck Cloud and Bayonetta.
747fa9 No.15134416
>>15134400
Reddit is about as open-minded as a Christian housewife in bed, and if there is a rabid fanbase about melee, it's reddit. They might know a lot about the game and are competitively active, but to say that reddit is a "intelligent" place for smash discussion is a step too far.
9578bf No.15134441
>>15134415
>I just don't understand tourneyfags
i understand the desire for a competetive game. what i dont understand is why they feel that the franchise should cater to them. its like as if low A-press runs of mario 64 became mainstream, so games like sunshine/galaxy etc became criticized because of the lack of PUs which made the game not good for low A-press runs.
466d91 No.15134455
>>15133863
Not when Kirbyfags exist
747fa9 No.15134459
>>15134428
> have had
There is the problem. If reddit was only populated by people who were passionate about games, there would be some serious discussion. However, the place is infested with idiots who think their game is the objective best and suffocates any form of discussion, and more importantly, criticism. This place realize that, and while I am pretty neutral about melee, I just don't give a flying fuck about it. PM is my jam, because of the fan dedication. Same reason AM2R is my second favorite game in the franchise. The Smash wiki are dick-gobbling faggots too, all the mods want to scrub every bit of information of PM off their site because "PM is dead" and "it is not an official game". Place is infested by furries, too. Avoid at all costs, except for frame data and numbers. Also, reposting your deleted posts is not reinforcing your point.
254241 No.15134460
>>15134455
>Not when Kirbyfags exist
What did they do this time?
cd084f No.15134462
>>15134252
It almost feels like they're mocking you. I feel you.
8eaf81 No.15134472
>>15134455
I have never seen anything bad from Kirbyfags in my life.
>>15134460
What did they do, ever? Aside from that one fag that posts that guro collage in every thread, what's wrong with them?
254241 No.15134475
>>15134472
> that guro collage
what
953c8d No.15134489
>>15134441
Low A press runs started off as mainly using SM64's considerably better movement options including the stuff you can do while holding A. These things aren't available in later games, and people have in fact been complaining about 3D Mario controls a lot and comparing them to SM64's superior controls.
So basically, what you just said is retarded and defeats your own point.
9578bf No.15134507
>>15134489
>what you just said is retarded and defeats your own point.
no it doesnt you stupid fucking retard.
sm64 controlling better has nothing to do with a lack of PUs you fucking retarded nintendrone, you best be baiting me.
9578bf No.15134523
>>15134514
>I'm already on reddit
rotten, is that you?
8dfa05 No.15134525
>>15134411
Double dubs of truth. I grew up with Melee, so I'm biased, but there were a lot of great things Melee did, but buying into the eSports meme just made it fucking pathetic. I personally think fixing the mechanics that made wavedashing, L-cancelling, and the like possible was a positive decision, though Brawl was plagued with far, FAR too many problems to be considered a great game; better in very few ways, worse in many others. You're right about Sm4sh, too, and I'm still waiting to see what sort of meme characters have yet to be added. It's good to see Ice Climbers come back, though. Cloud doesn't belong in Smash. Should have been Geno
On the other hand, it's sort of a loaded term anymore when a developer/publisher says they want their product to be "accessible", for all the obvious reasons. Still, Nintendo usually seems to separate themselves from the pack with their games, so it could prove to be a positive thing. They'll undoubtedly be messing with the mini-game and event mode formulae, so we'll have to see what kind of shit they add this time around. I still don't have a good enough reason to separate myself from $300 for a Switch, so we'll see.
e79bab No.15134526
>>15132309
>you realize what type of civilization we are living in right?
a society?
c16b13 No.15134532
>"muh wavedashing" and whatever else literally only exists because of rushed development and was left in for shits and giggles
>retards this desperate to shit on anything that isn't
Fucking purge maylayfaggots.
bcebfa No.15134537
>>15134532
Who are you quoting?
8eaf81 No.15134541
>>15134537
>pretending to be retarded
471ef5 No.15134546
>>15134525
I want solid single-player content this time. Melee's was the best, the goofy challenges, solid Classic and Adventure modes. Subspace Emissary was a novelty but only a novelty and Sm4sh's was an embarrassment, Smash Run being merely "okay." And I want my goofy post-match scoreboard back.
e618c9 No.15134547
>>15134525
>On the other hand, it's sort of a loaded term anymore when a developer/publisher says they want their product to be "accessible", for all the obvious reasons. Still, Nintendo usually seems to separate themselves from the pack with their games, so it could prove to be a positive thing.
Anon, Sakurai came out back in 2010 and said that Brawl was his answer to making a more "accessible" Smash. That should tell you everything you need to know.
747fa9 No.15134549
>>15134508
> That was stopped years ago due to public outcry. All of the PM characters still have individual pages. Maybe try to have info from at least 2017 before bitching?
I know that they have individual pages, but they would rather like to wipe it all. PM has no place, and everyone on that site wants to nuke it.
> You're confusing the /r/smashbros wiki on reddit with the independent SmashWiki site.
Aren't those practically the same thing?
> You keep spamming posts
Alright, I was trying to discuss something but this doesn't work.
471ef5 No.15134551
>>15134547
And then Sm4sh went back on a lot of it. You can argue it didn't go back enough, but it did go back. Sakurai is not to be trusted, the man is fucking insane in all the wrong ways.
c16b13 No.15134558
>>15133726
Already guaranteed. The content alone pathetically eclipses anything else and literally all it has to do is be more technical and smooth than "4".
e618c9 No.15134576
>>15134558
What content? Characters are not content. Characters are options. They're as relevant to my playing the game as which weapon I decided to use in Monster Hunter or just about any shooter.
2799ac No.15134586
>>15133835
Because Meleefags are fuckin' retarded.
cd084f No.15134587
>>15134576
This has, by far, been the stupidest fucking post I've read all day. If you deserve a response, it's to make fun of you.
c16b13 No.15134596
>>15134411
>>15134525
I literally used to love Melee and got bored as shit with the stages and music and sound effects. When I found out about the "competitive" scene years later I didn't even care. The game was unenjoyable to me anywhere but Mute City or Hyrule Temple or redoing the Challenges.
While Brawl has done shit that aged disgustingly just to spite a select group of autists, the fact every SSB gets bitched at just for no air dodge on the ground exploit or not moving as uglily fast as 30fps, even going as far as to call Ultimate shit before it's even out regardless of what all we've seen of it just this far, is beyond pathetic even for insufferable /v/ retards.
c16b13 No.15134602
>>15134576
Literally kill yourself, retards.
bc0939 No.15134606
4ad0ce No.15134618
Do they just hate their fans that much? I can kind of understand.
254241 No.15134620
>>15134564
ah, that. only a handful of those pics seem to be guro though.
>>15134576
>Characters are not content. Characters are options.
options aren't content?
be1354 No.15134622
>>15134525
Geno will be in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
The evidence is undeniable at this point
953c8d No.15134624
>>15134507
And a lack of PUs has nothing to do with the shitty casualisation Smash went through, which is the topic of this thread. I pointed out how your analogy is completely unrelated, yet about a game that supports the opposite of what you want to say. You best be baiting me, else I'm afraid you're just retarded.
2799ac No.15134636
>>15134576
Melee fags are the absolute worse, this is how deluded they are, this is how they convince themselves that having only 3 characters being competitively viable is okay.
c16b13 No.15134644
>>15134606
I just hate how long it can takes to KO in 4 just because of shields and dodging. I still think 4 stocks would have been fine for For Glory from my experience.
Melee has otherwise been pathetically outclassed in content and features. It's just faster and has neat little exploits and the original timeless classic Event Matches while having the shit unpolished versions of characters. Only SSB I even want to get ever again is 64 for nostalgia or 4 just for playing without a TV, getting my fucking Stamina back and endless hours of 8-Player amusement, which is literally the best thing ever to happen to SSB and the only thing I'll praise about 4 aside from roster and Smash Run, which is only on fucking 3DS anyways.
5a1ba8 No.15134645
>>15134514
>started using 4chan in 2005
And you've been telling people that the internet was serious business since then, i assume
efef7b No.15134657
>>15134582
>My posts were the two best posts in this cancerous thread of morons
You're a self-aggrandizing redditor who can't take some shitposting and has to go on a tirade on a board he hates. You are by far the most annoying cunt in this thread just by the obnoxious tone every post you make has.
e618c9 No.15134663
>>15134620
>options aren't content?
Would you find it acceptable if a company shat out a "fighting game" where the only content is characters you can choose amd stages you can fight? And, completely ommit any other gameplay modes? On that's the only content that's been added to the next installment in a series spanning two decades? Meanwhile, cutting every other gameplay mode and extras that was present in previous games?
"On paper", you're getting more "content", but all it boils down to is just another weapon of choice that you use on the battlefield and nothing else.
c16b13 No.15134670
>>15134663
This is advanced retardation.
f77ffa No.15134681
>>15134644
i feel like the difficulty in KOs and big recoveries encourages off stage fighting which i enjoy. unfortunately a lot of characters are not so good at it
f77ffa No.15134703
>>15134587
i hope the sword mii is half decent this time around so i can actually use my rumia. so strange that its the only one without a wall jump.
471ef5 No.15134745
>>15134576
>>15134663
>it's the function vs. function argument again
Go back to Marvel, it's where you belong.
>>15134596
Agreed. I did like Melee, but I was young. I did like Brawl, but I was young. And I liked Sm4sh but was old enough to finally notice what it was doing wrong. Now I can only hope that Ultimate does better.
>>15134681
I'm bad at off-stage fighting, even when playing characters that are capable of it, so it's not the kind of thing for me.
254241 No.15134747
>>15134622
>The evidence is undeniable at this point
What is this evidence?
The inclusion of Cloud Strife makes Geno's appearance a lot more like than in previous games, but do we have anything beyond that?
>>15134663
>And, completely ommit any other gameplay modes? On that's the only content that's been added to the next installment in a series spanning two decades? Meanwhile, cutting every other gameplay mode and extras that was present in previous games?
I see. The other modes did kinda go to shit after Melee, didn't they?
b7d5ac No.15134765
>>15132984
>Dp and qcf requires tedious memorization! Forget about cancels and frame advantage. I rely on real mindgames and skills, which is why I can't play competently without disabling items and stage hazards in a party game.
c16b13 No.15134769
>>15134681
4's only inherent issues are how it still has some of Brawl's problems, taking much higher percentages to KO, leading to dragged out boring 1-1 and the absolute shit single player content. It's unbelievable. And SSB still has the infuritaing problem with how poorly characters are represented and feel dissatisfying to use.
Cloud and Bayonetta being bullshit is the fault of this. It's ridiculous how they and Ryu got special treatement that makes more than faithful and enjoyable while Link, Samus, Zelda, Lucario, Sonic and Mega Man all still feel pathetic and weak and unnatural.
c16b13 No.15134793
>>15134663
>>15134670
Simply stating the obvious isn't enough. The entire appeal of Super Smash Bros and games like Dead or Alive ARE the fucking characters and people want to see how enjoyable they are to play in them. You're just sperging out in desperation to shit on everything after Melee that did anything better because I pointed out later games are superior in overall content despite gameplay flaws and I see right through it. Kill yourself.
031d69 No.15134797
>>15132527
mfw this could be solved by adding multiple online modes with different maximum caps on inputs per second
4dd220 No.15134811
>>15133289
>There's no reason not to L-cancel and it's not based on a respnse to something your opponent does, might as well make it automatic.
While I agree landing recovery from aerial attacks should be shortened in general, there is actually something that can throw off your timing for L-canceling and that's the enemy shielding. The small stutter from having your attack blocked can throw of your timing for L-canceling.
I had way more fun playing 64 than Sm4sh. At least you could do some stupid shit that made for some great laughs in 64. Sm4sh is just very boring.
>Yet people will defend this and the faggots here will eat it up just like they did with MonHun World where everyone acted offended over the casualization before release just to admit that they were playing it in Friday Night threads.
>>15134576
You fucking retard. If you lost a whole weapon type in Monster Hunter, think how much content you would lose. You'll lose over 50 weapons and a whole different way to tackle a monster.
398028 No.15134813
This entire fucking thread is retarded autism from both competitivefags and casualfags. But especially from casualfags in particular.
031d69 No.15134819
>>15134797
It wouldn't even have to be a fucking mode. Just a setting next to Stocks, time, and Handicap.
471ef5 No.15134824
>>15134813
>everyone is dumb except me
quality post
4ad071 No.15134916
>>15134765
Marvel is very fast, has movement techs out the ass, and combos that can go infinitely long, but it's not considered the best fighting game. Quarter circles and other directional inputs are an intuitive way to add more moves with a limited number of buttons, and the directional inputs are reserved for the slower combo finishing or situational moves. Getting carpal tunnel just from basic movement techniques is not a good thing.
a6abd7 No.15134998
>>15134285
Wavedashing allows for a ton of movement options out of things that can be jumped out of, being able to grab ledge from stage quickly, being able to get onto stage quickly while still having invincibility to either escape or attack, having a quick SF like dashback while facing your opponent when approaching to bait an attack, being able to jump onto a platform and slide off of it in either direction faster then jumping on it and then running off.
The new mechanics in the game will make ground game more viable for sure, but it does not give anywhere close to the same movement options wavedashing gave.
There is a ton of utility to the function of sliding from an airdodge hitting the floor. it is just a different way to move on the ground as a replacement for running, it gives you vertical mobility as well.
a6abd7 No.15135001
>>15134998
*It isn't just a different way to move on the ground
fuck mobile
c16b13 No.15135019
>>15134813
>casuals
>for a glorified crossover fanservice party game series
Pathetic retards started this first a long time ago when Brawl was supposed to be the only "casual" game yet anything good about 4 inspire of the shit and now even Ultimate gets ignored for convenience.
a6abd7 No.15135029
>>15134916
the players that get shit like carpal are always the fox players that try to do things like shorthop double laser all the time and rely on doing waveshining consistently with frame perfection. the problem isn't the tech, its that melee fox requires the inputs to be super fast and melee has no input assist at all. With even a small bit of leniency like a 2-3 frame buffer or have things purposely made to not be super tight but still hard like ProjectM did with most of the cast (including fox), peoples hands wouldn't be broken.
be1354 No.15135121
>>15134747
First off, he was one of the most popular votes in the Sm4sh ballot, and they've said they'd take highly voted characters in consideration for future games.
Secondly, Geno is one of the very, very few characters Sakurai himself wants in, and he was almost in Brawl, but due to licensing issues he couldn't be put in. But since Cloud is in Smash now, it's safe to say those licensing issues are dead and gone.
Add to that the fact that he got a Mii costume in Sm4sh, and the case for Geno in Ultimate is concrete. I feel as though he and Simon Belmont are guarantees at this point.
be1354 No.15135129
>>15134576
Capcom, is that you?
254241 No.15135160
>>15135121
>characters Sakurai himself wants in
i completely forgot about that
4e9706 No.15135167
>>15135121
>one of the very, very few characters Sakurai himself wants in
Didn't he want Lip in Smash around the Melee era, but held off because he wasn't sure people would know who she is? Or am I misremembering what was said?
ccf983 No.15135173
>>15135121
I'd be genuinely surprised if Simon, Geno, and K. Rool weren't in, they seem like shoe-ins compared to anyone else
c16b13 No.15135318
>>15135121
Literally who gives a fuck.
000000 No.15135820
I just don't understand tourneyfags. Not every game has to be super competitive or meticulously designed. Sometimes you just want to turn your brain off and experience some wacky goofiness with your bros smacking each other around with brightly colored characters without worrying if the outcome is affected by randomness or not. I mean, who cares? It's just a game. Tourneyfags need to get over themselves and realize that not everything is about them. 99% of players have no idea about the mechanics they find so important and those people are the ones that make the game the real big bucks, not you. More depth does not always make a game better. Some games are meant to be pure and simple chaos… y'know, FUN?
And that's why I play Fortnite. Oh wait, this thread is actually about Smash? That's great, because now what I wrote above will somehow be considered wise and knowing instead of a shit-tier casual opinion like it would be for every other game series. Honestly reddit has better discussions about Melee than you fucking retards.
>>15133275
I'm already on reddit and Smashboards all the time, reading actually intelligent and competitively competent contributors give insightful commentary about Smash's mechanics (such as how l-canceling contributes to defensive mixups and situational awareness evaluation, as opposed to posts about it on this board which have never gone beyond "you have to press extra button that's bad" vs. "no it's not"), competitive scene, and history. I just come here to join with the few other actually-cognitively-competent-on-a-basic-level people like >>15133242 to laugh at the retards that have infested imageboards over time (and considering how many people that responded to my original post in this thread didn't even understand its meaning on a basic level, even after I clarified it clearly and completely in a later post, there are obviously quite a few).
If by any chance you are a knowledge-oriented person reading this and want to talk to people who actually know a bit about Smash (including some actual pro players) instead of generic "PARTY GAME FUN MELEE SMELL BAD" wananbe trololols, you should join me. /r/smashbros is mostly trash (although even the newfag Sm4sh fans there mostly acknowledge Melee's competitive superiority in a humble fashion) with some decent discussions at times in the comments, but /r/ssbm is pretty good overall. Of course it's reddit so you'll have to be on your "best" behavior, put up with the shittiest, corniest jokes and some occasional faux-wholesomeness (although that's just the common imageboard tendency to think that constant textual aggression and contrarianism makes you cool and superior in reverse), and not indulge in any wrongthink, but that shouldn't be a problem if you just want to discuss a video game. Give it a try.
Point is, most chanposters (like you) are actually the faggots here because you reveled in your liberty to shitpost so much that gradually you actually turned into shitty posters. You became so smug about and satisfied with your freedom that you forgot the responsibility of quality that comes with it. Half of the posts on imageboards now (including and especially this one, despite its posters' entirely unsupported belief in their superiority to 4chan's) are just tribes of cargo cult quasi-memeticist sycophants screeching the same old half-baked thoughts at each other, and the fact that the only thing you got out of my post is "fuck off ribbit" is proof that you're one of them. I started using 4chan in 2005 (yes, start preparing your standard boilerplate response about how I'm making that up) and I don't recognize people like you as anything other than what you really are: worthless moronic losers. So, yes, I do use reddit, way more than this crappy site filled with brainlet one-liner fags like you, and I don't feel guilty about it.
>>15133353
Oh look, it's another greentext buzzword nigger who needs to take a reading class.
>>15134657
Being retarded without an understanding of how you're retarded and without it being funny at all or there actually being a joke involved isn't shitposting. It's just being retarded, which half of the people in this thread are.
>>15134645
Perhaps we should have taken it more seriously to avoid people like you ever using it.
be1354 No.15135845
>>15135820
Mark please keep deleting this faggot's posts so I can see how many times he is willing to repost this
000000 No.15135904
>>15135845
Until everyone with any sort of posting potential knows how much of a worthless shithole this place is, as many times as needed
d0d89e No.15135912
>>15135820
>More depth does not always make a game better. Some games are meant to be pure and simple chaos… y'know, FUN?
You know what? You've posted this now-copypasta so many times I actually bothered to read it. I played Melee when it came out and I was in my teens. Even though I couldn't wavedash like my one friend who is a tourneyfag it was still fun. Having something that added depth didn't stop me from enjoying all the other things the game had, but it did give me something to work towards in the long run which helped me both improve as a gamer and keep with melee years after Brawl had come out.
Depth gives people the option to play at a higher level while still enjoying the game. For a game like Smash it isn't a real barrier either as it's not like characters need complicated notations to function unlike other fighting games in the genre.
Even as a party game, Smash benefitted from having these little bugs on a broad level as it kept fans for years. And despite Nintendo's asspain that people like to stick with one title it didn't severely impact sales as each new iteration draws in more and more crowds as gaming continues to grow as an industry and the Smash label improves.
This was never about the "tourneyfag" mentality. It's been about people trying to keep Smash in that area where it supports both casual play and higher level play that features some more skill intensive options for players to choose from. But Brawl was a huge middle finger to the latter crowd and to the overall game design as well for all the things stripped from it or added (directional air dodge, prat falling, custom combos, etc) by a guy who has too big a hate boner for a small number of the community that honestly keeps the hype alive.
So get off your high horse you obvious troll, games can be both easy to pick up but harder to master. If you want to just play Spear Pillar (my favorite stage by the way) with all items on do your thing because nobody is stopping you. But I'd like it if Ultimate does bring back a more technical side to the series that's been missing since Melee, even if it was originally just a bug.
000000 No.15135934
>>15135912
I can't believe you managed to type all of that out and still completely miss my point, literally arguing against the exact opposite of what I clearly said.
>And that's why I play Fortnite. Oh wait, this thread is actually about Smash? That's great, because now what I wrote above will somehow be considered wise and knowing instead of a shit-tier casual opinion like it would be for every other game series.
That is, since you are probably still too dumb to understand, I will point out explicitly that the lines quoted above from the post you're responding to completely negate and invert the meaning of the first paragraph in it, making it not my actual thoughts but a parody of the rhetoric of those I disagree with. Do you understand it now, you illiterate subhuman nigger troglodyte?
Seriously, how low is your IQ? If you don't know, please take an online test. I'm actually interested. How do you manage to function in daily life? How do you avoid accidentally killing yourself?
be1354 No.15135955
>>15135934
I mean, I read that and completely understood it, I know it's a parody, but what isn't a parody is the fact that you browse Reddit, so your opinion is invalid.
d0d89e No.15135988
>>15135934
>>15135934
>miss the point
I don't know how you playing fortnight has anything to do with me talking about whether or not mechanical depth detracts from the players ability to have fun? Honestly you don't even remember when aspects of Smash WERE affected by randomness and it was terrible for everyone. You didn't invert any statement and if anything the only sensible thing you said was that casuals aren't going to care about perfect blocks in Ultimate which makes hating them or being agains their inclusion paradoxical since their overall impact on gameplay is nonexistant on the casual side of things. Still doesn't mean that additional wrinkles in complexity aren't going to be great for the game overall. Hell I'll go so far as to say that casuals aren't even going to appreciate the UI having all the character specific mechanics explicitly shown to them at all times, something only Little Mac did right in Sm4sh.
But none of that matters because you're not actually going to address my post and instead just act like a typical fish out of water trying to fit in on a chan.
000000 No.15135991
>>15135955
>haha lebbit meme we are le sooperior fullchanners xd u rabbit u stupid
t. 2014 newfag who has never bothered to try any other online communities and just goes based on what the people here tell him
be1354 No.15136004
>>15135988
Listen, the guy you're replying to is a total faggot, but I feel as though I have to spell this out for you: He doesn't play Fortnite. He didn't mean anything of what he was saying about Melee's mechanical depth. He was being sarcastic.
He does, however, browse Reddit. He did mean that. I mean, if he's to be believed, and I don't see why not. A lot of 4chan oldfags browse Reddit, because a lot of 4chan oldfags are full-on liberal cunts now, so I can totally see this guy as an oldfag as he claims.
be1354 No.15136007
>>15135991
Actually wait, lemme ask you something, are you a guy by the name of rottenhuman?
d0d89e No.15136019
>>15136004
>Listen, the guy you're replying to is a total faggot
That much is obvious, I just don't see the harm in replying to him since he's more than proven he'll stick around even when his comments are deleted. Multiple times. Whether it's sarcasm or Autism he'll just keep spinning his wheels and I felt like actually contributing.
4ad071 No.15136022
>>15136004
>a lot of 4chan oldfags are full-on liberal cunts now
A lot of old Newgrounds personalities are twitter blue checkmark liberals now as well, it's the strangest thing
000000 No.15136023
>>15135988
Buddy, I don't actually play Fortnite (not "Fortnight" you moron). That's not the point of my original post. The point was to highlight via example the fact that arguments promoting casual play at the expense of competitive play would be seen as moronic in any other context but are considered valid in the context of Smash for no good reason. You can think about that what you want (though we actually agree on the subject of competitive mechanics in Smash despite you being too much of a brainlet to realize that), so long as you seriously understand how ridiculously stupid you are for having to have it spelled out for you.
How is life riding the sped bus? And yes, I guess I am a fish out of water on 8chan nowadays since the average IQ here seems to have declined to 80 and you've all even bought into the "le meme spacing" meme.
be1354 No.15136037
>>15136023
I mean, the whole meme spacing thing is pretty stupid, you're right about that. So you're right about one thing, that's good.
000000 No.15136050
>>15136004
>A lot of 4chan oldfags browse Reddit, because a lot of 4chan oldfags are full-on liberal cunts now, so I can totally see this guy as an oldfag as he claims.
I'm far more /pol/ than not you retard. I've been calling people illiterate niggers this whole thread. The idea that you have to kiss tranny ass every post just to discuss even a video game on reddit is nothing more than shit-tier channer propaganda from people who have never visited it once. reddit definitely leans more left than right, but there are still plenty of right-wingers, centrists, libertarians, etc. and you can usually get a positive response if you make a decent, factually supported point regardless of your political orientation.
Plus, like I said previously, if we were on reddit, none of my posts would have been deleted for saying that another site is better. In fact, shitting on reddit is mostly encouraged on reddit. How does it feel to be posting on a bigger safe space hugbox than the site you've stereotyped as the ultimate one?
000000 No.15136056
>>15136037
In fact, meme spacing was pretty much standard on chans as far as I remember until 12 year old Habbo kids, braindead Chanology fags, and other riff-raff who were too lazy to use proper e-mail formatting moved in.
d0d89e No.15136058
>>15136023
>The point was to highlight via example the fact that arguments promoting casual play at the expense of competitive play would be seen as moronic
But my sweet little shitposter, that argument is actually valid as evidence by some of the worst design decisions in smash history being an attempt to "casualize" Smash Bros. But let's ignore that so you can make more room temperature IQ jokes and post more leddit memes. >>15136023
>The point was to highlight via example the fact that arguments promoting casual play at the expense of competitive play would be seen as moronic in any other context but are considered valid in the context of Smash for no good reason.
And I kept telling you that regardless of your actual post I felt like making a comment on what that argument even means or has resulted in within the smash community, but you're so far up your own ass you can't even entertain actual intelligent commentary because you're just spewing the same jokes. I even made it clear I was just addressing that one line for you and you're still flying off the handles.
We already agree, but for some reason you're the one pushing reddit memes when nobody else has. Really makes you think huh?
be1354 No.15136074
>>15136050
>How does it feel to be posting on a bigger safe space hugbox than the site you've stereotyped as the ultimate one?
Holy shit, it really is you, isn't it rotten?
000000 No.15136083
>>15136058
>And I kept telling you that regardless of your actual post I felt like making a comment on what that argument even means or has resulted in within the smash community
No, it's pretty obvious that (and >>15136004 agreed), despite your backpedaling now, you were trying to argue against your blatant misreading of my original post.
>We already agree
And it only took like 5 posts to make you understand that. If you want to make "intelligent commentary", learn to read next time.
000000 No.15136084
>>15136074
Never heard of him
be1354 No.15136089
>>15136084
Sure.
This thread is gonna die soon, and you're probably just baiting anyways, so I'm done replying to you.
d0d89e No.15136102
>>15136083
>And it only took like 5 posts to make you understand that
Literally my second post explaining the first and you're still riding this nonexistant high horse.
000000 No.15136113
>>15136102
Your second post said this:
>You didn't invert any statement
You're not fooling anybody into thinking you aren't a retard who doesn't know how to read here buddy.
49fd7e No.15137313
>we broke the torposter meleefag
Thread was worth it.
f77ffa No.15137626
>>15137313
maybe he just went to sleep
b9c509 No.15141110
somebody post the squid girls butt
ef1577 No.15146242
>>15132514
>"What people tend to forget about Melee, though, is that not everything about it was found in a day"
This is important as all hell. I think its foolish for people to come to conclusions about what the gameplay of ultimate is gonna be like right now. According to Armada, all the players at the invitational were encouraged to give feedback, and hes said that hes advocating for shit like dash dancing, wavedashing, and generally just more advanced mechanics and finer details. Sure theres a demo that's been played by many at this point, but samurai himself said he was a bit unsure about releasing it, so it seems it may be subject to large changes. The gameplay of ultimate at launch is going to be different than the demo, and yet more different after all patches are done. If it goes the way of sm4sh, so be it. But theres potential for them to return to form at least a little bit, and I wouldnt call it a competitive failure until all is said and done.