/v/ - Video Games

>>15029327 (OP) (You)

I'll also point out that dumping all of your talent points into a single talent tree was always a bad idea, if there were enough talents for you to spend your points on, but that if you actually split your spec or invest heavily into all 3, you're probably gonna suck at all 1 to 3 roles compared to other people

I’m guessing that’s you in the screenshot then because why else would you care so much about some random retard getting told he’s an idiot for wanting major changes to something where the draw is nostalgia for how things were.

>>15029357

i can't like my own post, anon

Retard. The point of classic is to be the unchanged vanilla experience, if you want classic + changes there's a game for you, it's called World of Warcraft (whatever current expansion). Just go play that.

>>15029352

>(OP) (OP) (You)

Amazing format.

Besides the already mentioned fact that the main draw of Classic is its nostalgia, which would be utterly ruined if you start overhauling classes, I would also argue that balanced classes aren't purely a positive.

If every class has a balanced range of utility and dps, you take away their flavor. Retribution paladin, balance druid; the fact that these classes sucked a dick adds flavor to them. It is hard to be them and do even remotely well, it is not conveniently handed to you on a silver platter. Almost every single design aspect of vanilla was such that it was not convenient. This in stark contrast with current retail where everything is super convenient. You can queue up for dungeons that instantly teleport you them. You can "experience" every single raid and dungeon, since there conveniently is a super simple difficulty for them. You can change your spec almost at any time, at any place, at no cost. Almost every class is viable up until the highest tier of raiding. Alternatively it also makes interacting with other players have less flavor as well. Talking to someone who is a balance druid on current retail is the same as any other class, since they are just as balanced and just as flavorless. Meeting a balance druid during vanilla meant you had a whole range of things to talk about. Being a balance druid was a memorable experience, in current retail its like being any other class. Yes, Classic will have less competitive design than current retail, but it does have soul.

>>15029327

Do you really think anyone here expects anything else?

Modern MMO's are plagued by shitters that only care about their favorite class being roughly equal to all other classes in every aspect, rather than having classes only excel in certain specific aspects.

every class literally plays the same right now, if you start gutting talents just to make some spec as good as any other spec you'd end up in the situation we're in right now

>>15029590

did I say to make them play literally the same?

I thought "hybrids" were the classes that were able to cover any of the three roles depending on which talent tree they picked

>>15029627

not at all, generally the hybrid classes in vanilla just sucked shit and were laughed at by everyone

>>15029365

This is how it starts, they will release it unchanged then sly change after change onto it, they did it with Oldschool Runescape, it started unchanged then "quality of life" changes like OP is begging for get added then it becomes a totally different game.

I don't know the current meta, but warriors were shit tanks ever since they made pally and DK tanks a thing

>>15029695

>I have the same problem.

>[You must sign in to view the thread]

>*signs up*

>[Topic has been LOCKED t. staff]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>15029695

>>15029710

>I solved the problem :^)

>thread locked

>>15029707

That's only from Wotlk onwards anon. Personally I prefer TBC where although Feral & Tankadin had situational uses where they could be better than prot War, Prot War was still almost always the best option for MT.

But hey we all know that Blizzard is going to fuck up their Classic sooner rather than later just like Jagex did with Oldschool RS. Then again Vanilla experience was always overrated in my opinion. It was success, but it took BC to iron out most of its flaws, though admittedly at the cost of PvP's enjoyability. Pillarhumping arena cancer & resilience mechanics can go to hell.

WoW players are retards, news at 11

>>15030161

I was a DK OT for a progression guild in WOTLK and Cata and a warrior OT for a progression guild in every expansion before then. Also did warlock dps from TBC to cata.

DK on release was insane, but at least the DK tanks had to know how to manage cooldowns because the rune system was a bit clunky. I thought the rune system was the last good thing they ever added to WoW tbh, solid and easy to learn but hard to master. The craziest thing about a DK was that bloodshield a talent that would put a magic damage absorption shield on the blood dk was stackable and could be ad infinitum. It wasn't that uncommon that I would be OTing a mob in a bossfight just stacking these charges and I'd have 500K-1M magic absorption shield up. Then if the boss killed the MT, I could aggro him and the amount of time the healers had to catch up with them not having to worry about me getting KO'd from an errant spell was huge. I've seen many a trash DK tanks though, who would just blow their load on CDs for 5-10s of easytimes and then 50s of crushing blows which led to wipes.

Still though, nothing I've ever seen matches the strength of pally tanks. DKs were nerfed into the ground but still playable by the end of WOTLK.

>>15030191

My guild helped the devs run a test during the Ulduar ptr. The test went like this: Patchwerk without Hateful Strike that had hundreds of millions of HP but gained a stacking a damage% buff every few seconds. Around 5% damage every 10 seconds if I recall correctly. The Prot Warrior, Prot Paladin and Bear all died at around 40-45 stacks. The Blood DK died at around 85. And that was AFTER a lot of devastating nerfs had already gone through.

WoW was never good.

>>15030222

I think I heard about that actually. I did a LOT of patchwerk fights too so I remember the mechanic. Prot pallies only got steadily better after then to the point where if you didn't have a pally OT you were looked at like a fucking retard. That wasn't the case with blood DKs. Blood DK tanks became sparse, just like feral druid tanks did. Or at least that's what my foggy memory of the timeline is telling me.

>>15029327

I think they're right to be apprehensive of changes, considering what happened to the game in later years.

If you want a better or balanced game you're going to have to wait for something that isn't WoW. Classic is going to be classic, for better or worse, so get over it.

>>15030253

You were never good.

>>15029710

>person has problem

>answer problem, thirty seconds later a mod inserts his solution, not as good as mine

>edits my response to be his and deletes my original response

Nothin' Personnel kiddo.

>>15029327

>choose your main based on whether or not you know ahead of time if it sucks

Top logic. And this was before dataminers and theorycrafters had really taken off.

>>15029327

Anything made by Blizzard is shit. Only retards give money to a marxist company.

>you'll never be a SLSL warlock in S2 Arena again, able to take on medium skilled players 1v3 when fully arena geared out

JUST

>>15030507

It's hard to ruin world pvp tbh. Going around STV blowing people up was a holy crusade against normalfags used to getting their hand held in videogames.

>bawww this class is weaker than this class CHANGE IT CHANGE IT

You are the reason the game's balance has spiraled out of control to the homogenized, bland bullshit it ended up as. Kindly fuck off.

Because Vanilla is imbalanced.

Warriors were OP in vanilla. Period. That's how simple it is

However I fear they will fuck up the magic of vanilla if they balance or tweak the game. I wouldn't mind them buffing those specs that REALLY need buffs like Ret or boomkin in vanilla, but I don't want blizzard touching vanilla.

It's enough that they're using live server launcher instead of vanilla launcher so they can sell their e-shop shit

>>15030552

I might resub for proper vanilla, though I would have preferred a TBC server TBH.

>>15030545

If they were to change anything to vanilla. I'd would just want it so they add in some of the cut content from the game.

Like that one dungeon that got cutted out because it was too gruesome.

Or balance it a bit, but considering Blizzard sucks dick at balancing, cant expect anything out of that.

>>15030689

>Like that one dungeon that got cutted out because it was too gruesome.

Was that the one where there was all the bodies underwater or whatever?

>>15030545

With how painful it was to level a Warrior they bloody well should be good at high levels.

>>15030716

What people mean when they say warriors are good is that they scaled the best. A mage getting a better stat staff is one thing, but when a warrior got a hand of a truly endgame 2h weapon he became an unstoppable juggernaut. There really was no comparison.

>I want every class play the same

>what's the point of having classes then?

>BAD GAMEDESIGN

Now I never played WOW but I think op is a faggot.

>He thinks warriors are immune to crushing blows

STOP POSTING ANYTIME. ty

Why is that no matter what game that has a class system, be it WoW or FFXIV, little shits want a class to do more than it was designed to do?

Healers are supposed to heal, not DPS. If healers could DPS all by themselves, why would people create other classes? A tank is supposed to tank hits, not heal. If a tank could heal itself and the party, what point would there be in creating any other class? It's fucking stupid. Just play the goddamn game.

>>15030815

TF2 and Path of Exile have amazing amounts of class bleeding, though.

The question is did the designers intend for prot/ret paladins, enhancement/elemental shamans, discipline priests and balance druids to be completely fucking useless for end game content? If so, then it was and will be working as intended. There's some limited itemization for the classes though, so if it was intended for them to be viable then you could tweak a bit. I doubt they will and I doubt most people would want that anyways.

>>15030815

Healing, DPS and tanking aren't classes, they're PvE group roles.

Many classes don't fit in a specific role. Druids for example can be healers, tanks AND damage dealing, with a different talent tree for each. It's just that their flexibility to do that comes at the cost at not being equal to others, which is what the screencapped post in OP is bitching about.

A good game doesn't pigeonhole classes into specific roles. This is especially valuable in an MMO, as having someone that can fill either of two roles is very convenient and helps a lot in getting together a group. It also makes the group more flexible, as it is capable of diverting some of one role to another during encounters, unlike groups consisting purely of the ideal classes for that specific role.

>>15030876

Game has been autistically theory crafted to death though. Hunters, for instance, are only brought for trueshot aura for the melee, tranquilizing shot for some encounters and pulling kiting some mobs. If you want ranged dps you just bring a warlock and mage instead and only swap in the hunters when needed. I've seen cases where hunters get fucked over like this in particually try hard and autistic guilds. Same thing for say an elemental shaman. The extra totems and reincarnation is nothing compared to just bringing another mage. Maybe a competent elemental shaman can reach 70% of the dps potential as the middling mage can. Ret paladins are even more useless, providing maybe another blessing if all them haven't been filled already by holy paladins. May as well bring another rogue or fury warrior. You'd need to be ground floor of a guild to run end game content with a meme build and try to have fun. Because any guild which takes a 15 year old game seriously will laugh in your face. Only ever seen boomkins get a break, and only one because of their aura for the mage group.

>>15030876

>A good game doesn't pigeonhole classes into specific roles.

Wrong. Good games have classes that are unique.

>i am in the forum for a product

>i am upset its not the sequel/expansion it does not include nor ever said it would

>i am very upset that what they never said would be included is not included

>How could this happen to me.

You are dumb as a box of rocks.

> rectified in the following expansion pack

no it didn't dude. shaman was absolute fucking shit in tbc and wrath outside of raiding. shaman was the worst pvp healer possible. the devs went onto the forum to tell shamans they couldn't get ghost wolf form because it's too similar to druids. meanwhile druids became gods who got everything everybody else had.

the only hybrid which got good in the expansions were paladin and druid because the dev team is 1. furry and 2. numale cuckold who roleplay as paladin. shaman got shit on forever outside of chain heal for raids

>>15029327

>Classic WoW is going to be a re-release of Vanilla WoW

So what everyone wanted? I doubt that's going to happen since Blizzard usually does the opposite of that.

The rest of your post is just complaining about the above. There's more to the game than endgame raiding.

>>15030870

I remember when in the beta of WoW, Discipline was suppose to be a melee tree for priests.

I kinda wanna see how that looks. Cloth armor but high on dps. Full glass cannon and using power word shield to survive.

>>15030870

It's a combination of both spite and the game being released completely unfinished. "Hybrids" were relegated to support, as Kaplan and Afrasiabi were, and likely still are, asspained over paladins from Everquest. Warriors were exempt from the hybrid tax, and were released in a much better state than most of the other classes due to bias from the aforementioned. They were comparatively slow to level, but seeing as how the game was modeled after a streamlined Everquest, a game where warriors couldn't solo anything past the starter areas, this was of no real downside since WoW's gameplay was focused overwhelmingly at max level.

Class balance during classic was such a sore spot for the player base that Blizzard spent about a year rebuilding classes through a series of major patches. Itemization started to improve come AQ, but the game never really saw any semblance of balance until TBC, where every spec was made at least somewhat effective in raiding, if only due to them bringing a spec specific buff/debuff that outweighed their numerical weakness.

Class balance isn't meaningful for a classic server though, as the game is so easy that there is ample room for weak specs. The raids were tuned for about 20 useful players, you brought the other 20 along to clear the enormous amount of trash before the actual boss fights, were the warm bodies would generally die easily avoidable deaths.

>>15031079

You mean at least until AQ40 and Naxx? Because in those raids one person fucking up wipes the whole raid. Even BWL had those moment, because one wayward mage in the wrong place at Nef can fubar the whole thing up.

>>15029618

it's a slippery slope

"yeah, lets simplify things a little bit, we don't need that many spells/talents"

and suddenly we have 60% of the spells and talents gone and dumbed down

why couldn't they just do what rift did and make progressive expansion servers, just start out with vanilla and then unlock the next x-pac after a certain amount of time. then you could have classic wow content without actually having to wade through all the shit design that was in classic wow…..

>>15031134

It makes up for when you have a constant stream of aneurysms caused by all the frost mages running around. Even more so if they are UD and gnome frost mages who can kite you to death and avoid your aoe fear. I still have flashbacks to being level 32 warrior and getting killed by level 28 frost mages.

>>15031096

I was going to mention that as a caveat, but I forgot. It goes all the way back to MC though, Geddon routinely ruined raids due to shitty players not moving during obvious triggers. My point was more along the lines of having the terrible players who were an actual detriment to raid progression just not being necessary to complete the instance. You would really wouldn't lose anything just kicking them and not finding a replacement as the content just wasn't tuned all that tightly. Twin Emps / C'thun, and parts of Naxx would probably be pretty difficult with ~20 players, but it should still be close, if not possible to complete, especially today with 14 years of experience.

>>15031134

I would absolutely shit over warriors with a rogue 1v1. Yes if you got a lucky sword spec proc double crit then I was toast, but usually I could blind/bandage cheese my way to victory every time. There was just too much lockdown.

>>15031166

This. I don't know why people bitched about warriors so much when rogues shit on everything.

>>15031164

>Twin Emps / C'thun, and parts of Naxx would probably be pretty difficult with ~20 players

A lot of those bosses have enrage timers, which means if you don't kill them in time they start to one shot tanks. You have to have a full raid of competent dps and end it quickly enough so the healers don't run out of mana to keep the raid up. There's a reason why only 1% of the playerbase even saw the inside of Naxx beyond the entrance portal. It's because a lot of people are shit at video games.

>>15031184

>>15031166

Warriors are generally a lot easier to play and with rogues if you got hit first you could lose easily since initiation is key to winning as a rogue.

Warriors at 60 can fuck up and still break face, you have to be in complete control of the situation to handle a warrior. Not to mention orcs can resist stuns and dwarves can remove blind and poison effects.

>>15031192

That's my whole point though, the developers were, at least on some level, aware that many people were terrible and the content had to be tuned to accommodate their weakness.

There are private servers out there now that rebalance the content based off of 40 competent players, and it's still cleared without much trouble. Bringing a dozen numerically inferior specs on a normal version of classic really isn't a big deal, since you can complete the content without them to begin with. They're definitely being carried by objectively stronger classes, and your raid would be superior with an ideal composition, but you can still bring them without jeopardizing your raid's ability to clear the content.

>>15031233

Shit nigger, as long as you got crip poison off on a warrior and kept within the minimum range of his charge so that he couldn't do his combat-charge then you were fine. You could also glitch his charge if you jump at the same moment he charged, he wouldn't be able to hit you until you were unstunned. There were a lot of things you could do, but being an engineer helped as well. There's only so much he could do if you popped your evasion/blind/cheapshot/sprint etc twice. At some point he's going down. I was a rank 12 rogue though, so I was no baby and shat on people.

Worst thing that could happen is if he shouts and breaks your stealth, but there's ways of getting around that.

>>15031166

>Human Warrior with perception

>Battleground friend healer hoj cockblocks the cheapshot, warrior just bazookas the rogue in a stun

Warriors were kings in BGs, in damage done, in cleave, in tankyness. Only bad warriors play alone. Warriors are a group pvp class who need a healer to stay up

If you prefer to solo gank with meme groups in STV then you're better off as a rogue, yes.

>>15031253

Also add onto that people want to clear MC in an hour instead of three. So that also means lots of meme builds are excluded. Everyone hates MC and no one wants 4 hour runs of only it once a week for 7 months until BWL comes out.

>>15031275

That's why I specified 1v1, silly boy.

>>15031259

Yeh theres methods to handle warriors nicely, keeping a good distance so he doesnt charge.

Pretty much the only way a rogue can handle a warrior is if he was prepared on it, Same applies with a warrior preparing to fight a rogue, he'd roll a race and get items that would handle them, Such as dwarves to remove blinding. Engineer net to force em into vanishing, that stuff.

Infact a Warlock with engineering stealth detection goggles and items to help fight rogues would be dangerous, the only way you could avoid a warlock with high detection like that was to initate a fight via vanishing, since nothing can find you when under that effect even Human perception.

>>15031288

That's why blind was the initiation tactic for high detect situations.

>>15031290

You can just vanish instead anon. Vanish provides you with so much stealth that detection cant find you.

>>15031307

I may be getting my timelines mixed up, but vanish was good for DOT breaking so I wouldn't want to use it at the start unless I was prep.

>>15031329

Dot breaking? In vanilla You couldnt remove dots by vanishing, you could remove slows and some debuffs. Unless you mean to immediatly vanish and attack an enemy while under dot effects.

But when it came to warlocks that had high detection you had to initate by vanish, If you didnt they would just throw dots and pull out their haste boosts with engineering stuff and keep you in control.

Having a human warlock with a Paranoia stealth detection buff, Stealth detection goggles and perception you wouldnt be able to get close Unless you activated vanish to start the fight.

>>15031398

You're right, it's been since vanilla since I played rogue. I get what you mean about detect though.

>>15030431

Datamining has always been a thing in WoW from day 1. It used to be really easy as you could just link any item id. Looking at my old code, I had working transcoders for most of the dbc files (dbc -> xml, xml -> dbc) as of 02/2005 and had been using them to dig out info. In the extremely rare chance you remember the jaypegger of a bunch of Ragnaroses roaming Elwynn back then, that was me - I switched a couple creatures to rag in the dbc to get the pics of him and his death animation.

>>15031096

Nope. Even Dnt carried around its (high) share of drooling retards.

>>15031153

I have a friend who was a Prot Warriors in vanilla, BiS gear from Naxx40. Great PvPer, too. He got killed 1v1 by a lvl 58 Frost Mage in Winterspring once. Anytime we talk about WoW PvP he brings that shit up. It goes to show just how fucking bad the balance was in vanilla. But in group PvP or BGs, shit evened out and it was glorious.

>>15031166

And the one counter to Rogues got nerfed because Rogues cried to death about it. Dwarf Warrior being able to Stoneform out of Blind. Which was in turn countered by Dwarf Rogue being able to Stoneform Rend/Deep Wounds. Hell, I think Cloak of Shadows is still a thing that lets you bypass encounter mechanics on live.

>>15031288

Warlock Engineers in vanilla were scary. On demand ranged snare, a root, stuns, rocket boots, then you add all those clicky items like the Skull of Impending Doom, sleep dust from Westfall elementals or the Eranikus trinket and you get a crazy powerful class.

>>15031281

Speed running is cancer. Nobody wants to do MC but I'd prefer an enjoyable 2 hour clear while having a blast with guildies over an autistic speed run anytime.

>>15031329

Might be thinking of Cloak of Shadows in TBC.

>>15030431

>its fun, until you get to the part that never ends where they suck at raiding

>>15030756

maybe I should've put the word, effectively, and the phrase, versus most single targets, in there, because thats what I'd meant

>>15031107

something I will not argue against; though I'd rather take the risk if I could somehow wrangle them myself

>>15029327

they dont care because the point of video game design is to rob you, cuck you, and keep you addicted.

wow was good for a time. give it a rest.

>>15030982

guess I didn't remember that part well enough

I was still right about paladins and druids though

>>15031134

Warrior design choices were pants on head retarded. I still can't tell if it was because devs were just incompetent retards or if there was actual favoritism going on.

>>15029365

>forced between either a shit unbalanced game, or a shit unbalanced game for the complete opposite reasons

It's amazing how you broken blizzardrones don't even consider "getting a good game" part of the equation at any point

>WoW

>Ever good

>>15031628

Both.

>>15031631

>>15031659

>your input

>ever meaningful

>>15031631

Oops. Anyway, I think what people are more afraid of is Blizzard's current woman/mulatto dev team tinkering with the balance of vanilla because they've proven less and less competent at balancing the game as time went on. Vanilla had weakspots sure, but there was enough balance that people feel more comfortable returning that than to let the modern pajeet dev team try to balance things and mucking it up in the process.

Whats the best zone and why is it Crossroads.

>>15031764

this

fuck crossroads

it is in the barrens which automatically makes it godawful

>>15030785

What a legend.

>>15031134

I remember levelling a Dwarf warrior and having fun despite being awful.

>pull bunch of enemies

>get gangbanged

>RAGE

>thunderclap

>thunderclap

>thunderclap

>cleave

>thunderclap

>cleave

>cleave

>barely live to loot all the corpses

>head back to town to hand in the quest

>have to spend all the reward money fixing my gear due to durability damage

>a cool 30 copper pieces in profit

Man, I had shit taste in games back then.

>>15031755

>>15031764

Desolace was comfy since I enjoyed treating the game like a single player game and Mara was my favourite dungeon; the minimal faction politics were enough to add meaning to the quests despite how barebones everything was. It's a shame Cata destroyed it along with everything else.

>>15031816

My nigger. I'll never forget the Patches quest line coming to a head and my 10 minutes of waiting being invalidated because some high level player wandered into him on the road and killed him while he was walking to town.

>Calling anyone retarded or a drone when you're paying / want to pay for something you could play for free

>Giving money to blizzard

>Going to forums which are always full of redditors and other idiots and expecting something good

wew lad

>>15031830

Maraudon was an amazing place. It was back when they made sprawling areas as runs instead of linear uninspired trash. Reminds me of the amount of people that actually experienced the whole of BRD in vanilla which was .0000001% of the population.

i dont know why but the comfiest zone in vanilla for me was redridge mountains

>>15031755

As a fuck who played elves very often, Ashenvale holds a dear place to my heart since thats where you meet the horde for the first time.

That feeling of dread and excitement when you finally see horde fucks after the peaceful and eventful first 20 levels.

>>15033268

did you know that theres a non-functional underwater instance portal in azshara?

>>15033493

Sauce

>>15030748

that room had a neat spoogy name to go with it too:

the upside-down sinner room

It's off-topic, but how's WoW: Battle for Azeroth shaping up? I lost any interest when they turned Sylvanas into a One-Woman, Dindu-Feminist Warrior that rallied all those "emasculated, defeated Horde men" in the movie because that reeked of pure Sjw shit only NuBlizzard would come up with. I would say it can't be worse than the last expansion, but every expansion somehow topped the last one in terms of being shit.

>>15029327

The faggots who cry "muh meta" are legit retards and are the reason why WoW isn't fun to even dick around in anymore. I anticipate collecting a lot of tears from shitty players trying to play "Correctly" which isn't much of a factor in vanilla outside of a few specific examples. The significant content which takes time to pursue like professions or certain key quests have a bigger impact on your power than class or talent for most things because most classes and talents are total shit. Vanilla is a complete and total shitshow design wise and that's why it's fun, because you can mostly do what you want and have it work. Non-endgame content can be tanked by shamans with shields holding threat with frostshock and it's pretty fun and workable with totems. I'll probably play double ret pallies with a buddy and dps/heal/offtank through all the content because it's fun and works. I did that during that Elysium/nostalrius relaunch and had a lot of fun running instances while underleveled with double ret pallies dps/healing instances making for hectic but fun and effective clears that just required a bit of competence, obtaining key pieces of gear that were such a powerboost it let us shit on everything and everyone while leveling.

Everything being shitty was fun.

>>15033268

Beautiful place. Too bad I was never into WoW, but that looks like a place I'd get lost in.

>>15034050

you can't force me to be interested in it

i doubt that the gameplay has gone back to WOTLK standards

all the good characters are dead, you can't even make me play for lore purposes

>>15035468

>removing PVP servers

Whaaaaat?

>>15035471

Basically, they're making all servers have an opt-in "War Mode", where you can toggle whether or not WPvP will be enabled in Org/SW. Having the mode toggled on will enable extra bonuses. So basically, people on pvp servers will be able to play the game similar to how pve servers function now, and vice versa.

>>15035482

Blizzard can make up any excuse they like but the real reason they're doing this is so they can use cross-realm with a larger pool of servers in order to further obfuscate their bleeding subscriber count.

>>15031755

the combined early human zones had the best quests

if i had to be specific i'd go duskwood

>>15035550

Yep. This is exactly what this is.

>>15035703

In TBC I was such a notorious spawn/graveyard camper that I would have multiple threads going against me at once cursing my name. Those were the days,friendo. Lost all my screenshots when my HDD melted. RIP.

>>15035712

One of the draws that another anon posted a long time ago was that it was the WORLD of warcraft in the beginning, not some over arching plot we were just mindleslly following along as a peon. That made the game feel more alive as people could do whatever the fuck they want around the world, until raiders had their way and made it into a minmaxing shitfest with no fun allowed groups following the meta of the month

>>15031755

Elwynn Forest, Westfall, Reridge are very comfy areas. Very comfy. Then you venture into STV and it's where you meet the horde for the first time, and even if you don't, the area is full of dangers for a lvl 30-40. I remember grinding those gorillas to get gold for abilities and first mount level on my Warrior. Good times.

>>15036255

They hinted at adding expansions for classic a la Naxx or Shifting sands.

>>15036312

It doesn't take that many people to make a proper classic wow server, the private servers proved that. I played on a low pop server for vanilla and found myself plenty entertained. Fun fact, I was actually in the game guild as the guy who did the famous reckoning bomb 1 shot of kazzak that had reckoning hotfixed a day later.

>>15030545

warriors are pretty strong but they have some really big downsides leveling and gearing a warrior is you level the slowest and have to farm the most for upgrades depending on whar role you play(tank or fury) even if you go fury you have to farm tank gear regardless for certain fights and for tanking dungs sometimes. you can very easily top dps as a warror pre aq40 but dont expect to beat the fire mages when aq40 comes out. also there not that fun or good in pvp simple slows will fuck you over and mages/hunters will dominate you in any 1v1 even locks can destroy you with just a lip.

>>15031398

you will be surprised when aq40 comes out and locks get there hands on there tier 2.5 set, they legit can shit on everyone as sl

>>15036350

>be me

>nostalgiaing on not having nostalgia

I missed vanilla and had to look up reckoning bomb. Bretty cool stuff.

>>15036380

>locks

locks didn't beat anyone. Warriors counter Locks. Hunters only dominate low levels, but in BGs hunters get shit on. The only counter to warriors are frost mages, and if its 1v1 (which is not bgs) rogues can outplay them, but they have to do everything perfect and help will come before they finish them off

>>15033516

think i saw it in a youtube video, don't feel like going out of the way to look for it though

>>15035550

The truth is PvP servers are either empty or imbalanced (illidan horde to alliance is like 100 to 1) so they rather make War mode cross-realm where they put all servers together and call it a day. It's done not only for that, but also so they actually fight each other

>>15036438

well its vannila wow and you can always find a way to overcome your classes short commings https://classicdb.ch/?item=3387

>>15033516

>>15036442

one google away https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/6fkino/the_dark_portal_underwater_in_azshara_anybody/

>>15035712

i don't think i said nothing about LFD, faster travel, x-realm BGs(which 1.12 has, unfortunately), or instant gratification; I know why that stuff is bad; I do browse /v/, after all

I'm saying that hybrids to not generally be garbage at PvE roles other than healing, and you yourself admitted that the class balance sucks

if your concern is the slippery slope, please say so; that I would not argue against

after all, I did type justifiably afraid, didn't I?

it'd a risk I'd personally be willing to take, especially since pservers would have a much higher quality once they get all the accurate numbers and such from datamining blizzard's servers, which'll probably be plagued by chinese gold sellers anyway

and, as another consolation prize of sorts, if classic fails, blizzard gets less money

t. quit before cata

>>15034050

The class balance is all fucked up and there's no hype for the expansion. People spent an entire expansion (Legion) being overpowered as fuck and now people are coming down from the high and realizing their class is barebones garbage without artifact traits.

I think the azerite system in BfA is basically a form of methadone or nicotine gum for the WoW playerbase as Blizz tries to ease people off of the artifact system to prevent everyone from dropping out immediately. Then in the expansion after BfA everyone will be back to the usual talents & gear system.

What I don't like about the classic wow thing was that before Blizzard announced it, the moderators on the forum, and on Reddit went into censorship overdrive after Blizzard shutdown that one really popular server. Now the same moderators will moderate the classic WOW discussion.

>>15036490

There's a private wow server that let's you create your own class.

>>15036071

and now I've read this post; to this I reply:

even if you are aren't an awful tank, you're still gonna want to look for a healer, because you can't do both simultaneously

and, if you get to be a not-awful dps, then you'd be socializing to find a tank AND a healer

I'm not saying that every class should have every one of their specs be good for BGs, WPvP, raiding, dungeons, levelling, and gold farming, just that if a class has at least one spec that serves a particular role, then one of those specs should be good enough for said role in raids because raiding is so important due to the gear you can get from em compared to pretty much everything else barring rank 12-14 gear

hey, if they'd never made any raids with better gear than MC, then I might not be complaining about that stuff at all, but they made 2, technically 3, tiers of raids above MC, and the last one has much better itemization than the prior ones

theres a huge power level difference between a decked out 60 and a 60 with just dungeon gear and pre-raid/reputation epics, but before patch 1.6 came out, it wasn't that big, aside from BRE and to a lesser extent spinal reaper

>>15036543

and I will add to this: some people would add tanks and/or healers to their friends lists in order to get groups together more easily

>>15036084

>encountering hordefags in Stranglethorn for the first time

Always encountered them first in Westfall myself

>>15036192

>pre-Cata Azshara

literally an unfinished area, remember falling down from it and wandering trying to find a way back up (there's literally one ramp back up) since my hearthstone was down and it's pretty fucking empty and what quests there are just plain did not work

>>15036536

>fighting for hordeniggers

>ever

It doesn't help that the Horde always picks the worst fucking leaders

Can't wait for Sylvanas to be CORRUPTED.COM like Garrosh did, that or she'll pull a fucking Kerrigan and in this case the Warcraft franchise must burn to the ground

>>15036577

>implying Jaina wasn't ORCED.COM

Like I've said before, gonna be dead in a year. People will realize how awful it was

>Raiding a full time job

>Dishonorable kills

>Bankalts

>Shit class balance

>50% of specs useless in raids

>Grind for pvp armor

>Stalemates in alterac valley

>Expensive mounts

>Slow leveling

>Sandlol

>1 shot by windfury

>rogue stunlocking

>Resist gear farming

>Farming instance for hour + to get nothing

>Rep grinds are useless

>Sandlol

>Paladins useless due to a grudge the lead designer had in everquest

Once the nostalgia wears off, people will be crying.

>>15036958

You know, all those things may be true, but it's still a better game than current WoW that shards your whole experience and you never have a player interaction ever. There was never more fun in the game than world pvp which was absolutely peak in vanilla. People don't like vanilla because they think it was a more streamlined experience, but because it was more fun because people were in the world. I bet you the server is going to be packed and if it isn't that's not that bad either. AV stalemates were great, proved that alliance were fuccbois who can't push for shit and have to rely on extremely favorable map advantages to not get their shit pushed in.

>>15036918

> The fact that different specs have to socialize and find DIFFERENT players is why making all specs viable would hamper social interaction

So are you honestly trying to defend horribly broken class designs as necessary for social interaction? Like, half the build choices you could make in vanilla were flat out useless and in no way made the social aspect better.

>>15030324

Doesn't change the fact that wow is was will be shit.

/bane/ is getting this get

>>15037033

>Let's take Everquest and burn through all the content and ignore the social aspect of it

>Hey wouldn't it be cool if we harassed the devs to make content just for us?

>EQ is boring, let's make our own MMO with blackjack and hookers and raids

WoW was the death knell for MMOs as a genre.

>>15037062

oops its /tv/ not /v/

>>15037062

>>15037067

Was failing this hard part of your plan?

>>15037082

>These small "quality of life" and patches that were made to improve the game have already shown what they can do = Retail! When will you admit that you have no clue what makes a good game good?

This. They have added every errant streamlining feature any faggot on the forum could have ever dreamed of and people hate the game now. I WONDER WHY? It's not about the streamlining. It's about having a community. Now I think it's possible the game might flame out when the nostalgia dies but people still play Runescape and probably will until the sun dies. I think WoW classic will have an engaged playerbase for a long time, especially when they see a shit ton of subs and they have more people banging to get in on the classic feel than BfA. It would have taken Blizzard ten years to finally realize the tack they took with their game was the wrong one.

I just want Blizzard to go back to vanilla and continue some of their original ideas (Emerald Dream, Dragon Island, Grim Batol, Uldum, Outland) on a different path. I want the same style RPG, but I've played plenty of vanilla private servers to enjoy the original balance

>>15031750

This. Vanilla had its problems, but despite Faggot's protests to the contrary, every class was fun to play for one reason or another and most players don't give a fuck about optimizing for 40 man raids. The overhead required for those raids is just too much for most people to give a shit. Frankly it never seemed like the developers designed the classes purely with raids in mind.

>>15037216

TBH lad he's right, you should delete your entire reaction image folder because it's infected with reddit

>>15037033

Good job putting words in my mouth and projecting your own insecurity in your game preferences. I only asked if you honestly thought a broken game was necessary for social interaction and apparently you do. I liked vanilla for it was and enjoyed the social aspect of it too, but the game itself was incredibly flawed and broken in many ways and ignoring that because of your nostalgia for it just makes you look like the retard. Theres nothing wrong with wanting the social aspect of it back (which I highly doubt will happen or last if it does) but intentionally recreating a badly designed game is fucking dumb.

Fuck classic / vanilla WoW. I was a warlock and full-time raider from vanilla through wrath, and Vanilla was fucking awful to be a warlock in. Particularly if you were alliance.

I have fond memories of MC, BWL, AQ40, and Naxx. But even then, I was little more than a taxi service and token healthstone / curse of elements guy for the mages.

>>15037268

what you didn't enjoy the super hard coded debuff limit making locks nearly useless?

Let us reflect on the important part of vanilla, that there were basically only 3 classes that actually saw use and the others were delegated to niche uses and were promptly dropped when people were pushing content

>>15036192

>That fucking bridge

So many battles were fought across that bridge over Azuregos. The idea was to fight him near where the camera is there and then hold off the opposition faction using the bridge while you killed him.

>>15036918

yeah okay

so its better that a guy whos only good at healing gets to socialize less to get a group together than if he got to dps, which most of the playerbase prefers, whilst its harder to find tanks and healers for that reason

even if those words I'm posting ARE an argument against class balance in favor of social interaction, instead of the other way around, then I'd still rather sacrifice the relatively small amount of social interaction involved so I and others don't feel a massive blow when we finally reach level 60 and figure out that all we're good for in the post-dungeon PvE endgame is putting on a dress and defensively waving our hands around, which quite a bit of the playerbase wouldn't have fun doing, or even have the opposite of fun doing

having to walk from mulgore to undercity on foot to learn how to use swords is one thing, and is quite acceptable, but having to either be in a healer spec in healer gear and spend most of your DKP on healing gear instead of the sparse hybrid dps gear… or just not raid(and thus not get raid gear) is something else

>>15037664

oh, and don't forget that we can just roll a pure dps class and hit 60 with one of those instead, that is, without rolling a hybrid class first

>>15037664

>>15037680

Then Vanilla is not for you. Which is fine, but there's no point bitching about it since the whole point was that the classes weren't homogenous and equal.

>>15037708

that's a pretty hot take on being retarded.

>It's actually a good thing that there are complete trap classes in the game, I can't think of a reason why though so I'll keep saying social aspects even though they aren't related

>>15037717

Trap classes? Maybe all classes weren't meant to be min/max raid best in raid slot. Maybe you played hunter because you liked pets and kiting, not because you wanted to top the dps charts. Chasing the dragon that is perfect class parity did nothing but gut the classes of their quirks and made everything homogenous and bland. This is why you are being shown the door, because we tried it your way and the game became boring.

>>15037736

Yeah I too remember the great class quirk of paladins being useless at tanking and wearing plate. So you instead put on a dress.

Or the fantastic class quirk of being just flat worse at dps than all other dps classes making there no reason to play it.

>>15037747

Then why don't you play retail instead? Why must you change what people want from Classic if some people want it even if you dont? People want classic because the good spots outshine the bad spots, which I would agree some weaknesses in class specs would be classified as.

>>15037769

What good spots? The only good spot you bring up is social interaction which won't ever be recaptured

>>15037784

lol holy shit you really are retarded. You really think that an MMO in the new mass communication can possibly recapture the era of wikis being wrong, data mining being nebulous at best, and the era of no reddit?

>>15037791

Who forces you to trawl thottbot for answers? Redditors always existed before reddit too. They just congregated on other websites. Wouldn't you want to kill these people mercilessly like you could in world pvp?

>the new mass communication

The new mass communication? Kek. How fucking stupid are you? Are you even white? Did you ever play Wow? I'm still waiting.

>>15037798

>can't think of a single reason for why somehow the community will reform

>IT'LL HAPPEN IT'S ALL I HAVE LEFT

>WOW WILL MAKE ME HAPPY AGAIN LIKE WHEN I WAS 14 REEEE

Jesus it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad

>>15037807

Have you ever played Wow? You still haven't answered the question. I won't indulge you further without it.

>>15037813

You still can't think of anything can you? I know you really aren't in a good place in life right now, so you're really desperate to go back to a time when you were happier, but still claiming that everyone who dislikes the horrible class design, awful bosses, and quite frankly arbitrarily long grinds hasn't played the game is hilarious and reeks of desperation my dude

>>15037851

I wonder how many classic servers they're releasing. Not looking forward to 200 long queues.

>>15037860

Don't think you'll have to worry about that after the first week

>>15037793

If this is genuine anon I think you might need to take a step back and re-evaluate your priorities (and your tastes), otherwise this is a 7/10 copypasta.

I'm not even trying to petition for wow classic to be change, I think vanilla was fun for its time but it fucking sucked from a gameplay perspective. It's like playing an RPG and rolling up a kickass monk build because the monk looks cool and then after 100+ hours you find out that the only thing monks are good for is sitting around town giving people discount blowjobs. I don't even want to play a wow classic because the magic that it had back in the day is never going to come back and the sooner you can accept that the sooner you can find joy in another videogame.

>>15037860

I feel you, but in all honesty this >>15037866. I mean there's definitely going to be a fall out after the first week and month no doubt and there's no way to prepare for that other than open huge amounts of servers and then merge them.

>>15038001

You're underestimating the amount of people that did not get a chance to play vanilla, or got just a taste at the end.

If you think classic will be run by veterans, you're wrong.

I was just thinking, does thottbott even display how quests worked in 1.12?

>>15035468

>removing PVP servers

Are you fucking serious?!

>>15036490

So it's basically Legion,but shittier?

>>15036536

I'm just going to call you a sjw faggot. Reddit is that way, you sjw faggot. She's supposed to a shady, evil bitch but now they're making her an Dindu-feminist hero that's a one woman army. How do you make an evil bitch that secretly tries to kill you and your friends a hero?!

>>15036958

It's funny how more than half of these carried onto the last few expansions. MoP had one of the most useless currencies Blizzard never expanded on.

>>15038477

>removing PVP servers

>Are you fucking serious?!

They're not removing PVP servers. It's just the PVE/PVP split server system is being removed. When you go into a capital city or a neutral city you choose to be in PVE mode or PVP mode. If you choose PVP mode it puts you in a PVP shard where outside of the city you'll only encounter other people who opted for PVP mode.

>So it's basically Legion,but shittier?

Kind of. The azerite system is still about grinding, but you're not just handed azerite gear other than the necklace, "The Heart of Azeroth." Other azerite-powered pieces of gear you get from dungeons and PVP. You farm up azerite and pump it into an azerite item and it unlocks tiers of upgrades that are usually just procs or buffs for base abilities that activate when you use those abilities. It's a really uninspired system. You can tell one reason it's there is to just keep people subscribing and grinding so the game doesn't hemorrhage players between content patches.

>>15038519

So did they trash legendaries? That would be a big fuck you to the players after the hell they went through with them.

>>15036860

If the game is that boring, I think it might be time to find a better game

>fourteen years and people still care about this shit

Really glad that out of all the autisms that snared me, WoW wasn't one.

>>15038930

>tfw can't tell if this is a real post

>>15036434

>>15036350

I actually just found out that the guild I was in with the reck bomb pally is still up.

http://pias.dkpsystem.com/news.php

DO IT FOR THE LOBSTER

>>15038599

They're making it so the legendary bonus from the item doesn't apply above level 110

>>15038930

>They're not, its your neckbeard ass making her into one.

Did you forget Christie Golden's most recent novel directly points out Sylvanas finds pride in being the Horde's first female Warchief?

>>15040153

Isn't she like the fourth one total? Baine should be warchief.

>>15035710

You're forgetting phasing. You don't see phased players.

>>15036152

>>15036071

What Blizzards needs to do is release two types of Classic servers. Type A is a copy-pasted version of what we all played through back in the day and each expansion getting progressively worse. This is basically like private servers. Type B servers would be a concise effort to remove those quality of life "fixes" and "changes" that kill the socialization. No flying mounts in TBC and following expansions. No LFG system in WotLK. Absolutely no cross-realm LFG system in WotLK. No LFR in Cata. Etc, etc. No arenas and no resilience gear. No queueing for BGs from cities. Problem with servers like this is that it would require nuBlizzard to be competent, and we all know THAT is never going to happen.

>>15036380

Gearing DPS Warrior is impossible early on unless you get friends or guildies to carry you through dungeons. DPS Warrior in greens is probably the second most worthless spec in dungeons. Ret Paladins being the worst: LOL I'M OOM AFTER KILLING THE FIRST MOB in a 5 PULL!!!1!!

>>15036438

Demo Locks could kill Warriors if played properly. Pop an armor pot and sac your Void before the Warrior gets his Charge/Intercept off. Fel Dom and Soul Link a new Void out amazing Warriors will pummel it though. Get an Immolate off before your bubble runs out and put up your DoTs and Drain Life. The most important thing to keep in mind is to NOT FEAR THE WARRIOR. You don't want him to use Berserker Rage in order to prevent extra rage gain. If you can juke a Pummel, you can actually hard cast a Voidwalker, which is one of the worst feelings to have as a Warrior. You used Bloodrage to Intercept in and you have no rage to Pummel or Fear a 6 second cast.

>>15036958

Most of these aren't problems. Dishonorable kills is only problematic entry on your list.

>>15037747

Nobody gave a fuck about DPS meters as long as you weren't below the fucking tank. Nobody did speed clears. Hell, using a FLASK as a non-tank was crazy talk. Your raid was better off having 10 amazing Moonkins than 10 shit tier Fury Warriors that were all competing for #1 on the damage meters.

Its not like its literally impossible to clear content with meme specs. If anything replacing all rogues with feral druids/furry warriors with retardadins would just be playing the game on hard.

I see several expressing some excitement over what could potentially be great, but I wouldn't expect this to be a perfect copy of 1.12. Blizzard has, more or less, indicated they will be doing this using the 8.0 client and server minus whatever wasn't present at the time, likely barring some general QoL things like hard limits on buffs/debuffs on a given target. It makes sense, from their perspective, to do it this way for stability and security reasons. Why bother doing classic servers if it means having to constantly deal with lots of client bugs and server stability problems that'll resort to a torrent of complaints? So I would say don't be too surprised if its more a simulacrum of 1.12 vanilla rather than a 1:1 copy.

Beyond all that, there should be all the fun of needing to frequently visit class trainers to learn new spells, skills, and their ranks along with having to seek out weapon trainers and grind out weapon skills again. There will definitely be lots of salt to mine from players that never knew what it was like back then.

>>15040620

Am starting fresh tomorrow.

Are we gonna have a guild there? I checked cuckchan and jesus christ that lights hope general is literal cancer.

>>15041255

If theres an ironguard thing I would join it, enjoyed raiding with em When it was barely organised.

The thing that people asking for class rebalances don't understand is that having some specs be not as good as others just provides a greater opportunity for players to challenge themselves. Ret paladins for example will never be viable for speed running perhaps, but in a casual guild it wont be disastrous to have a couple. People have made rets work, they just had to work harder at it.

https://youtu.be/dSSlL4maa6c

https://youtu.be/6-Ey98Ng9T0

>>15040372

>>15041302

>What Blizzards needs to do is release two types of Classic servers

you know, that does get suggested on the Classic WoW forums at times, and I'd fact supported the idea myself months ago, and still do

but the people who suggest it get yelled at the by the nochange guys, even though it'd easily secure plenty of servers for them

I mean, theres plenty of demand for not changing the game, and plenty of demand for changing the game, and although the guys who want changes would mostly play anyway, the company has given off the impression that they're passionate about the project, so they might end up having change and nochange servers anyway if they really think that the game could use some changes

>>15037118

Off course!

>>15041302

I think people are just preparing for blizz to take the path that most media has taken regarding writing female characters and make them Mary Sue's who can 'KEEP UP WITH DA BOYZZZZ' and constantly shit on males. There is a low chance this wont' happen, so having Sylvanas already start to ape these mannerisms is annoying in a world where normally this wouldn't be the case. It will be like what they did to Kerrigan really.

>>15041524

I don't think any of the nochange people would mind parallel QOL servers, as long as it didn't impact theirs. They've already said there's going to be changes but that's due to the backend of the game working differently based on the better data table management etc. This will undoubtedly break a few quirks of vanilla though I don't think people will blink that much since the game won't run at 10fps when there's more than 20 people on screen.

>>15041548

if you don't believe me, then why don't you go download the free starter edition client, make a new character, and ask them yourself?

you'll get tarred and feathered by those guys for daring to suggest something that at the worst would delay the release date of the game

>>15040620

Lights Hope/Elysium are both extremely corrupt. GMs in bed with gold sellers and generating gold and characters to sell. Haven't been keeping up for a couple of months, but the little I've seen suggest that it's going to be more of the same.

>>15041599

Running a server is basically nothing to a big company like Blizzard. The devs are already discussing the issue and have to deal with it already, so it doesn't add a lot of "development time" to the project. And most of it would be disabling features. The biggest hurdle would be zones that are pretty much flight-only, like the mountain zone outside of Ulduar in WotLK. Those would need to be revamped in some form or other due to the lack of flying mounts.

>>15042103

Honestly I might skip a date tomorrow just to be able to play early on the server. I dont want to miss the initial low level horde vs alliance zerg rush that will inevitably happen like in every server launch.

>>15042103

I'm honestly surprised people even bothered with K3 given the fact that K2 was a buggy piece of shit with the difficulty tuned down to game journalist tier. Also, Light's Hope is called Chink's Hope for a reason. My suggestion: keep it in your pants so that the (Classic) release will be all the more… enjoyable.

>>15042253

You can't blame the private server devs for chinks. The chinks DDOS when they get banned so it's a compromise to appease the yellow terrorists.

>>15042203

I never see much low level zerg rushes, I seem to miss out on all of em.

>>15041433

The biggest issue is finding enough players willing to carry you. Rets, moonkins, prot paladins, dps shamans only make everyone else miserable. They slow down your raid times, they increase the chance of wipe (thereby raising repair costs and consumable costs for everyone involved) and they steal gear from people who play their class to their fullest.

Hey remember that one small thing wrong with vanilla WoW!? Lol just ignore the giant fucking disaster known as Modern WoW, see Vanilla was shit!

>>15042357

Just FYI, if your raid wipes because of one retadin in your 40 man raid, your raid was about to wipe anyway.

>>15042399

Of course. Guilds that don't allow rets are gonna be readily available so your guild that allows retadins is gonna consist of 2nd string players.

>>15042404

This is where the whole social thing comes into play. Make yourself essential to your raid in other ways and they will overlook your dps weaknesses. Farm FR pots, mats etc. I played meme builds in raids with that and we did fine.

Why would you play a ret pally on classic? You got no reliable dps. You run outta mana after each kill. The little dps you have is luck based burst that doesn't do shit in pvp.

>>15042503

It's a spec that specializes in 1v1 fights. It's mostly in group PvP where you can't pull your weight in the same way an arms warrior would that your spec becomes underwhelming.

>>15042357

Boomkins have a spell crit aura + innervate for priests. DPS shamans give an extra windfury totem, although I will cede that restos are more useful overall due to both that and, well, healing.

I will give you Rets outside of Naxx apparently and tankadins being dogshit, though.

>>15042674

The crit aura is far worse than just bringing another mage/lock.

>>15042503

Ret reckoning is fine

>>15030552

you don't though for classic

CLassic you just need AN account to post, you can make burners to start or post in threads

>>15034449

I once had a hunter's pet tank Stratholme undead for us. This was on the live vanilla servers. It mostly worked. Vanilla really was quite enjoyable once you stopped caring about meta shit.

>>15042253

It wasn't tuned down if you remember how easy the game was if you played vanilla. 1.12 made clearing content easy, a lot of private servers offset this by buffing mobs in dungeons and late game in the world

K3 isn't perfect and I've stopped playing like a lot of people because the constant server hopping is burning me out. The last thing I want to do is play on chink's hope and find out the "8ch" guild there is run by the same faggots who thought it a good idea to let in normalfags

>>15044574

What options for decent private vanilla servers are there?

A little info just for fun for people to be up to date:

In the beta for BFA and as it currently stands, the strongest Melee and tank is Demon Hunter. Same for PvP

Resto Druids are now complete garbage without healing touch or any way to top people quickly. Resto Shamans and Discipline Priests will reign pve and pvp wise. Holy Paladins will not be viable

As for casters, Warlocks are doing good, but they're very boring. Prot Warriors are Trash, Brewmasters and Demon Hunters will be best tanks. DKs being third best . mind you this is only in the beginning, in future tiers they always balance or the classes change with more gear

Frost Dks, Demon Hunters, Fury Warriors will reign. Rest of melee is just boring and slow. Ret Paladins also looking good.

If you're retarded enough to fall for the meme and try out BFA, just be aware who's OP and who is shit

>>15044631

>B-B-BUT VANILLA IS IMBALANCED

>>15044641

any time there was anything resembling balance in wow was wotlk, before it ret palas could 1v2 people without breaking a sweat and after wotlk disc priests are so riddiculous in pvp its not even funny

>>15043466

>Raid leaders didn't shout in Vanilla

Yeah remember how the elitism got so bad they invented a gearscore add-on, made DPS parsers, used DKP and all the other shit that made raiding just a pain in the ass?

Well obviously not if you just made that statement

>>15044661

>ret could 1v2

I was Rank 1 in TBC arena season 2 2's and 5's, ret pallies were nowhere to be seen. They were fun to play and for random wPVP I'm sure they were passable. WOTLK had overpowered DKs but otherwise yeah there was a nice sweet spot.

>>15044738

DKP was a neat system. I treated it like craigslist and waited for things to go on sale before buying it. Clearing progression and getting loot for a first down would cost like 70 DKP for a piece, but if no one wanted it in the first round for that price then you could snag it for way cheaper. It was hilarious because I would end up with more gear faster because I didn't blow my wad on sidegrade.

You're right though, raid leaders were usually yelling but that's because they were bad raid leaders that didn't hush people up during progression. Though these people were nowhere near as bad as GEMER GURRRLS.

>>15044590

Northdale and Kronos 3.

They have their strengths and weaknesses.

Northdale has higher pop and better scripting but doesn't ban Chinks. Northdale released today, Kronos 3 is a couple months old.

>>15029327

>a guy points out bad game design which gets rectified in the following expansion pack

>blizzard

>doing anything right

wew

>>15044794

Kronos also killed itself by changing things to be non-vanilla.

But at this point I don't want to reroll anymore. I'm tired of hopping servers every 2 weeks.

>>15044772

13k players online right now with no lag, holy shit.

>>15044868

Do these servers really only last 2 weeks?

>>15044871

from my experience the numbers stay high for a bit until the later raids are out.

But it might die out since fresh starts like this just explode with numbers then die down a bit, but sometimes it grow a little higher and keeps a high population.

>>15044878

>>15044871

As far as I know there are no big server releases coming up aside from Blizzard's own but that won't be up any time soon.

>>15044878

You can just imagine how many people will be beating down the door for a proper classic server.

>>15044924

You can get pretty decent gear running the odd 10 mans if you want a decent ilvl gear. You probably won't ever kill hakkar or the AQ10 boss in a pug though.

Also, what the FUCK is with tirisfal glades being packed to the brim but not a single soul talking? It's like they're all chinks and bots.

>>15044574

K2 was tuned down, big time. You know how there are elite mobs outside most dungeons? And how the elites outside are both lower level and weaker than the ones inside the dungeon? On K2 the elites outside the dungeons felt fine. Some classes could solo them with varying degrees of difficulty but a group on its way to run the dungeon would breeze through them. Once you got inside the dungeon though, the higher lvl elites that are supposed to hit harder were actually doing significantly less damage than they were on live. I remember arguing this point on the K3 threads around here and linked a video from K2 and a video from vanilla to compare the damage of the elites inside and the K2 dungeon elites were doing something like half of the damage the retail mobs were doing back in the days. And this applied to pretty much EVERY dungeon.

>>15044631

Are classes with immunities still able to ignore raid mechanics, leading to class stacking to cheese fights?

>>15044924

What the fuck are you on about? I basically never fucking farmed back in the days. I'd fish and mine every now and then, but I spent like 2-3 hours a month doing that shit once things settled down after hitting 60. Maybe you had to farm like crazy for Loatheb/Naxx, but I never got to do Naxx because of IRL issues, so I don't know. But before Naxx? Fuck that. Bring some health pots and some cheap mana pots, some bandages and maybe some elixirs for the harder bosses and then you're good to go.

>>15044997

forget me but i lost the thread of this discussion…tirisfal glades? you're talking current wow? non official classic? i have to know

>>15045014

Lights hope private server for vanilla. Northdale server.

>>15044997

yeh I noticed that too, I met like a few social folks thankfully enough.

>>15045007

You're forgetting the insane amount of time you're were supposed to eat to finish those 40 men soul crushing raids. As i said, already had a job. And when you weren't farming for yourself, you'd do it for the guild or a that cut elf healer you secretly want to fuck in the boypussy. Because who wouldn't?

>>15045047

Which wasn't that much. By the time AQ came out, we were done with MC. Like I said earlier in the thread, 10 to 15 hours a week during "progress" was the most my guild would do, and I suspect the same applied to most other guilds out there.

>>15045007

>Bring some health pots and some cheap mana pots, some bandages and maybe some elixirs for the harder bosses

You can't have done BWL without tons of health/mana pots. Impossible.

>>15045122

I was a tank, I fished Stonescale Eel while reading books and farmed thorium when I logged in early for raids. What I never understood though was the healer mentality of using the Major mana pots when learning fights instead of the super cheap Superior ones that were almost as good. The thing is that potions accumulate during farm content since you don't use them as much. Once AQ came out everyone that was remotely competent had a ton of mats/consumables stored up.

>>15045190

AQ was one thing, but Naxx wasn't fully cleared by Nihilum for 3 months. So 3 months of progression raiding for the best guild, and a near endless progression cycle for everyone else. That's why shit became scarce and people got burnt out on the grind.

>>15045190

you don't just need those. all physical dps classes needed elixir of the mongoose and rogues/wars also needed elixir of giants or the shit you got from winterspring which gave +30str, firewater, casters needed arcane elixir or some other elixir for +spell dmg, plus for aq40 you needed greater nature protection pots for huh and those same pots + a couple greater shadow prot pots for cthun.

for naxx, you need atleast 2-3 greater shadow prot pots for each loatheb attempt, nature prot for heigan (unless you've done it enough times that you never get hit during the dance), greater fire prot also help during faerlina. need greater forst prot for sapphiron.

tanks needed flask of titans for patchwerk (well, 3 of the tanks anyway), caster dps needed flask of supreme wisdom.

gotta farm zg for the zanza pots, plus all the food/fish you need. usually naxx guilds require chimaerok chops which give 25stam for naxx, gthe mats of which are a huge pain also.

the consumes weren't just health/mana pots and an elixir.

and unless your guild had naxx on farm then you probably needed more than the usual amount for progression attempts.

even in bwl, even if your guild was in full t3 you still needed greater fire prot pots for firemaw. altho you could clear the rest of it without any pots, firemaw does too much with his buffets.

>>15045007

>Are classes with immunities still able to ignore raid mechanics, leading to class stacking to cheese fights?

No. The only ones who can ignore debuffs are DKs with AMS. Well, cheat death, Ice block, Divine intervention and Demon Hunter's netherwalk can give them immune to damage and they use it on Mechanics designed to soak damage. You can't cheese mechanics with that, since the mechanics are done with that in mind. They simply become optimal choices but not cheesing a mechanic

>>15045233

>all physical dps classes needed

>needed

>need

No, you most certainly did not *need* those. At least not before Naxx. We'd use flasks on tanks for the harder bosses, but most of the raid wasn't stacking consumables for MC/BWL/AQ. There was absolutely no need to. The content was nowhere near hard enough to require that level of autism. You had fire resist pots for Ragnaros and nature pots for the soakers on Huhuran. The tanks used the chops once the fights were ironed out and we were getting close to a kill, but while learning the fight the cheap food was good enough.

You're making me think that you never actually raided in vanilla and just got your info third hand. We had a Mage use a Flask of Supreme Power during BWL once and everyone thought he was fucking crazy for making it in the first place. I understand things changed in Naxx, but saying things like "needed to use consumables" and "farm for hours for each raid" is just crazy talk.

And fire pots on Firemaw? Firemaw doing too much with his buffet? You used a bit of resist gear and ran out of LoS if your stacks got too high. Nobody used fucking fire pots for Firemaw, what the fuck are you smoking?

>>15045349

i was talking about aq40 and naxx when i listed those consumes, which is why i added the last sentence and mentioned bwl specifically. sorry if that wasn't clear.

on firemaw if every class has FR gear then yeah you dont' need the pot, but if you don't have 200 or so unbuffed FR gear then usually (as a hunter) i'd pop out, dps until i got to 6 stacks, go to corner, bandage, pop fire prot pot, run out again, 6 stacks, run to corner (since i had fire prot i didn't need to heal), wait for them to run out, repeat. popping a fire pot enables you to stay out twice as long to dps.

melee had prio on most resist gear so if you're ranged dps there was a good chance you wouldn't have enough to enable you to forego the fire prot pot for that fight.

and if we were doing patch, then 3 tanks would always get flask of the titans and pop it before we fought him.

obviously you don't need flasks for bwl, and you don't need consumes in general for mc/ony except mayyyybe rag. again, i was talking about aq40/naxx.

for cthun unless you could get out of the mindflay of the tentacles (ie feign death), then shadow prot pots helped since dps couldn't always get them down before they would do 1-2k dmg to you. not required if everyone in the raid was 100% on the ball, but yeah.

and 1 greater nature prot was enough to absorb one green blast, so prepop one, then pop additional after you get blasted, if you do.

plus, they absorb the stomach dot also, if you get down there and need to burst a stomach tentacle before more eyes/claws pop again to get him to the dps phase. happened plenty of time since sometimes healers would end up getting into the stomach.

i don't understand how you think that it only started at naxx, the need for more consumes, and wasn't needed for aq40 when cthun was harder than half of the bosses in naxx, easily. certainly harder than the entire spider wing, as well as razuv, noth, heigan, grob.

also, for huhu, the 15 soakers weren't the only ones who needed nature prot pots.

>>15045349

>most of the raid wasn't stacking consumables for MC/BWL/AQ

Absolute bs. My friend was in a top 15 world guild and they burned through manapots like crazy. And he was required to get all the rest of the mats in offtime as well. They got a few world firsts as well. This was Blood Legion during their height.

I never got far in AQ40/Naxx but progressing through BWL before you had it on farm was a consumablefest, as all progression is. You're expected not to half ass attempts. I don't care how good you are, some fights are skill checks until you have the group geared out in that tier so consumables got you over the edge.

>>15045433

>>15045407

I only killed up to Twin Emps in AQ40, but for everything that came before consumable farming wasn't required. That's the part that doesn't get through, not just to you two but for people who didn't raid back then. Even mediocre guilds like mine could progress through MC/BWL/AQ40 with minimal consumable usage. Most people never bothered with tubers. Hell, finding someone in a scrub guild that actually used healthstones when they had them was rare. The vast majority of raid guilds didn't enforce that kind of behavior because there was no reason to. You had 15-20 decent players who brought a fair number of consumables and played fairly well, and those 15-20 people carried the rest of the luggage through the raid content. And those 15-20 people weren't going crazy on consumables. Nobody showed up to every raid with Ony buff, Songflower buff, flasks and elixirs and 3 healthstones and grenades and thornling seed and whatever else you could think of. Sure, every guild had people who cared about damage meters and tried hard, but it just wasn't the mentality back then. You'd log on for the raid, spend 2-4 hours raiding and went and did some PvP or leveled an alt or AFKd in Ironforge. Rinse and repeat 2-3 times a week and that's what vanilla raiding was about. Log in, have fun with your guild, do some other stuff, log out. Which is part of why it was fun, as shitty as the actual raids were. You didn't have to worry too much, things were laid back, you bitched at people standing in fire, you had the nerd screams go off when the boss finally died and spent the rest of the time have fun. And when someone got a new weapon, you'd hop in a BG and get drunk on the tears of PvPers. It was chill, it was fun, it was social, it was an MMO. The min-maxing RPG aspects weren't as important because guilds didn't have to try that hard.

>>15045529

You're downplaying everything and i don't get the reason or it's just false modesty.

Anyway resistance/potion were a requirement for raids, and sometime your lack of preparation would cost you your place in the raid. As i understand it not in your guild, good for you.

>>15045529

>this just wasn't the mentality back then

I played since beta and I disagree progression raiding when it was relevant was obscenely "be prepared or be kicked". Maybe not doing older content, and you even admit that you were just being carried by actually geared people.

>>15045613

Here's a random group doing naxx40 anub, hardly a super hard boss. Check his buff bar, full of pots.

>>15045529

>everything that came before consumable farming wasn't required

Every end game raid in vanilla required full potions from everyone *when they came out*. MQ / BWL only became "easy" after 2 years of updates, power creep, class buffs, raid nerfs, accumulated wealth/gear, larger and easier gearing options, better understanding of the community around stats/skills/optimizations, perfected strategies, ez modo add-ons bonanza.

To pretend otherwise is dishonest.

Looks like a warzone with all these mobs and spawn rate, enemies spawning so fast you got like 20 people trying to keep an area cleared out so its safer to tag a quest npc.

>>15045603

Requiring that everyone carry health/mana pots, bandages and come to the raid repaired and with reagents was normal. Requiring that everyone have stack every single fucking buff in the game to learn every fucking fight was ridiculous and unheard of, at least before Naxx. Yes, people would get sat could get sat out if they didn't put in the minimum amount of effort required, but I never heard of average guilds requiring that every melee DPS come Razorgore progress with bags full of flasks and elixirs. Resist potions were also mostly handled by the guild, save for Ragnaros where people were asked to help farm some elemental fire for themselves. And even that died out after a few kills. For AQ, I'm pretty certain every guild under the sun had a stockpile of NR pots strewn across multiple bank alts.

>>15045613

Again, being prepare didn't mean having to spend 300g per raid to buy consumables. My guild didn't bother using the expensive stuff on bosses that didn't seem to difficult and nobody gave a fuck about it on farm status. The tanks used stamina food for everything, I know I used armor pots and elixirs on bosses like Broodlord, Nef and Huhuran even when on farm.

>admit you were just being carried

Work on your reading comprehension.

>>15045734

>required full potions from everyone when they came out

No they fucking didn't. Half of the people in my guild were either drooling retards ("WTF EBONROC IS HEALING! HE'S BUGGED AND EVADING!" after 3+ months of farm) or single soccer moms with kids yelling in the background. We were super lax, the guild had a super casual attitude, most of the people we had to carry didn't care all that much and we still cleared content at a decent pace. Our server was weeks behind in opening the AQ gate and we still managed to get to C'thun before Naxx came out. Just your average scrub guild. That managed to clear the content without requiring people to spam every consumable in the game. And we did it without having strats spelled out to us in details through videos and guides. To say that vanilla fights required full potions from everyone when the content was fresh is being ignorant.

>>15046021

You seem to have raiding knowledge I'll grant, but you sound like you're bullshitting. I don't know why you'd be bullshitting, but you are.

>>15046113

You've got a few problems with this subject.

- This stuff happened years ago.

- People think WoW theorycrafting/RPG number crunching autism is the gold standard, but your WoW guild lived or died on teamwork

- Soccer moms aren't there for mechanics. Nerds aren't there for socializing, nor do they understand social shit.

- Good ol' stupidity and ignorance.

>>15046119

I just don't see why he'd be lying. The amount of casual guilds that cleared AQ40 on release were zero. Only after a significant amount of time later they were nerfed pretty hard. It wasn't until WOTLK that raiding was made accessible really.

>>15046113

It sounds like I'm bullshitting because what I'm saying is contrary to what others have been saying on the subject for a decade. The problem is that, at this point in time, it's hard to know who actually is talking out of their ass, who did the content but have foggy memories and who did the content and have clear memories.

>>15046119

Theorycrafting didn't become too precise until TBC, where spreadsheets and logging started to become more prominent. Back then, the vast majority of players were clueless on how to play properly. Hell, it took months for threat research to get done. Tanks weren't going to crit immunity until that one forum post got made. Just look at this vid to see how bad players were. Keep in mind that VM was one of the top guilds in vanilla. He's not using Slice and Dice.

And fuck soccer moms. REEEEEEEEEEEE. God I hated those raiding with those types so much. They were always so god damn bad at the game and they didn't give a fuck about improving or putting in effort in order to avoid dragging down 39 other people with them. Selfish cunts. Die.

>>15046177

The is half conjecture and half talking to a lot of raiders over the years. From what I can tell, pretty much every server had at least a few raiding guilds. Most servers had two or three "top" guilds competing for server first, a few more average guilds that did ok that kept having their players poached by the top guilds, and finally you had the retard guilds that never got anywhere. The "top" guilds and the average guilds were all full of retards, but the retards were carried by the competent players. And once the competent players managed to teach the dumb fucking monkeys how to do the fight, the bosses would die without too much of a hassle.

I'd rate the guild I was to be between top and average tier. And yet we got to C'thun before Naxx opened and the guild even managed to clear kill 6 or 7 bosses in Naxx (plus C'thun) after I was forced to quit WoW: read they lost one of their tanks and were able to keep going. And my guild had a ton of morons. Now the reason I'm saying this is to make this point: the content could be cleared for average guilds filled with morons as long as some decently capable were there to carry the special ed. dimwits. That's what the "difficulty" of vanilla content was. The difficulty of the encounters in terms of numbers and mechanics was actually quite low. What made vanilla raiding was the 40 man portion, the fact that pretty much nobody knew what the fuck they were doing, and the fact that EVERY GUILD had to carry around idiots. The best thing that ever happened to WoW was going from 40 man content to 25 man content. It let every vanilla guild get rid of their trashy players. And let me reiterate: EVERY guild had their share of retards. Even Death and Taxes, Drama, Nihilum, etc, etc.

Talk to people who actually did the content and who remember, and they'll all tell you the same thing: vanilla was piss easy, carrying the trashy players around was the hard part.

>>15041649

where did I say anything about putting QoL stuff into the game? unless you'd count the class balancing stuff I'd went on about as QoL stuff

>>15044997

maybe they inflate their numbers with bots

and maybe theres just alot of chinks

>>15046313

Nah son you're lying. You didn't get 7 bosses deep into Naxx in a casual guild in patch 1.11. I can disregard the rest of your post since I've done the content, it's just too far from reality to be believable.

>The is half conjecture and half talking to a lot of raiders over the years.

I thought you did the content?

>>15046357

Well my guild obviously didn't kill Loatheb or 4H.

I did the content on my server. I had another 60 on a previous server but wanted to play another class so I re-rolled on a fresh server. If you want me to put it differently: "From what I've gathered, almost every server ended up being like this, so my experience is far from unique".

>>15046342

Anyone with any sense is going to stay the fuck away from any public channel unless they're specifically looking to trade or run dungeons. Especially with a population that high.

>>15046464

Find me a video of someone doing Cthun without pots

>>15046487

Talk about moving the goalpost.

>>15046618

Nah you're just full of shit and can't prove and relies only on other people's memories for raiding. Ya, a casual guild that beats Cthun without pots and raids 2 hours a week. Give me a break.

PSA: I just logged on my bnet account and found out that RealID had been re-enabled without my permission. You guys should make sure it's properly turned off, too.

>>15038930

>Makes an unholy Fuck You bomb behind the Horde's back through all of pre-Cata

<Throws her demon "buddy" under the bus, pretending she's an innocent dindu

>Sacrifices an entire army to Arthas while making a shitty raid on his place

<Gives no fuck she got them killed, and almost got you killed

>STILL tried to make an unholy fuck you weapon behind Garorsh's back

<Even fucking uses undead valkyries for her selfish gains

>Still does shady shit like an evil bitch

<But nope, NuBlizzard is now making her a Dindu Feminist Heroine for AZEROTH SOCIAL JUSTICE…until they remembered Legion was supposed to be about Illidan and the Legion.

I can see why sjw faggots like you love her.

>U HATE HER CUZ UR ALLIANCE N CANT GET BOOBS

This is beyond retarded even for Sjw-Blizzcuck/Reddit standards.

>>15038987

What did you expect from a Sjw-Blizzcuck?