/v/ - Video Games

>>14868563

It's been a while since I've played it, but doesn't Borderlands do what you're describing?

>>14868684

Been a while too, but I think it wasn't anything like that either.

FPSRPG is a shitty genre anyways, the two just are not compatible with one another. On one hand you have a purely player skill driven henre and the other genre is character skill based. Combining the two makes for an awkward matratimony of mechanics that either makes enemies giant bullet sponges or the RPG elements barely matters in the end and it boils down to player skill onpy, making the RPG elements feel tacked on. Only game that did it somewhat well was New vegas, with weapon skill and strength affecting bullet placement, weapon sway while scoped, and dialgoue options on top of all the other useful non combat skills in the game. Point is if you want to make a solid FPSRPG, then you better have a lot of non combat skills and branching objectives to counter the shooting parts.

Because it's far easier for devs to just ramp up damage over changing gameplay dynamics.

>>14868684

Boringlands, Too, and Boringlands the DLCquel (same engine) turn levels into arbitrary increases in health, weapon and melee damage, shield capacity, and shield recharge time and rates. The difficulty in the game is horseshit, since almost everything can knock your shield out in one hit, and enemies start having literal billions of health and shield points. The faggots at Queerbox (Captain Cuck and Pansy Bitchfraud) set it up so that the only patches would break equipment and technique synergies. Right now, the only REALLY broken thing in the game is Zer0's BORE skill, which exponentially increases the damage of projectiles that penetrate hitboxes. When enemies are forcibly grouped with a gravity grenade, or by default, have multiple overlapping hitboxes, you can pretty much one shot them with even a garbage pistol. Opportunities for this exploit are few and far between. Oh, in the DLCquel, if you play as Jack and use the YOU HAVE MY SHIELD skill, his holographic duplicates get copies of the shield you are using. This breaks the game when you use a shield that boosts your melee damage when the shield is down. Why? The shitskin coders made the amplification value multiplicative instead of additive. So instead of a shield giving you +1400 melee damage per hit, it still does that, and multiplies the damage of your holographic duplicates by 1400. You can gib bosses with the right shield. The games are still a chore even if you edit saves to grant yourself the most overpowered shit still allowed to be in the game.

>>14868724

I had tons of fun pearl fsrming crawmerax in 1. That and the knoxx runs were fun. I will agree that two and the DLCequel are dumpster fires.

I have no fath in 3 if that actually does get announced at e3

>>14868693

I mean it had varying reload speed stat, recoil stat, headshot multiplier stat and such on the random guns, there weren't points to distribute on the stats themselves but the skilltrees affected those stats.

>>14868724

Nobody said anything about the games being good. OP just wanted to know about the stats.

I really hope this is pasta and you didn't type all that shit just because I mentioned the game.

>>14868693

It does, but it doesn't actually matter. The problem with borderland's gameplay is that difficulty = enemy health, which means that the only number that matters on a gun is damage, with the occasional element to exploit the enemy's weakness. There's no variety to ai, melee enemies will all charge at you and sometimes move slightly left or right so its not a firing line, the most complicated thing they do is use a ranged attack if you are in an area they can't get to. Enemies with guns will hide behind cover and pop out at random, only sometimes chucking a grenade after a certain amount of time has passed, it doesn't matter if you are in cover. No group of any enemies to my knowledge work together or use any sort of tactics. No cover fire, no area of denial, no anything.

>>14868738

Aren't we all just General Knoxx these days? Mercifully, they didn't make him a soygoy in the recordings you can listen to early in the DLCquel. He was still a depressed mess who had thought of Athena like an adopted daughter he was worried about, for good reason.

>>14868746

I cannot say anything about Borderlands that might convince someone to pay hard-earned money for it. That is a sin I cannot live with. With that out of the way, you also have BADASS RANKS that come from performing minor accomplishments in the games, like kill X enemies with Y weapon, kill X enemies with Z element, perform W action Q times, etcetera. This stay with your profile, and apply to all of your characters. They tend to increase your health, damage, accuracy, and other shit by X% with each rank token you slap on them. Still, enemies become bullet sponges pretty fast, and that fucking sucks the possible fun right out.

>>14868695

>purely player skill driven

But how fast and strong your character is is still defined by the game.

>Only game that did it somewhat well was New vegas

Hell no, far from it. In fact this thread was made after I replayed NV and got disgusted by the gunplay.

>if you want to make a solid FPSRPG, then you better have a lot of non combat skills and branching objectives to counter the shooting parts

If you want to make an RPG in the first place you better strongly define the character through gameplay more like, regardless what subgenre of RPG it is.

>>14868701

I notice. Every RPG FPS game I know is lame though, does nobody ever care or something?

>>14868746

I just remembered again, it does have stats for those, but still not very much like what I'm describing. I also prefer points and not perk trees. Points + skill perk like in Oblivion is how everyone should do it though.

>>14868780

Yeah, the enemies' health definitely made me forget about the other stats.

>>14868780

yeah but dude the bandits are really stupid like irl nazis so no duh they don't work as group…

>>14868780

>No group of any enemies to my knowledge work together or use any sort of tactics. No cover fire, no area of denial, no anything

Neither does FEAR, which is widely hailed as having the best FPS AI in existence when in reality it's just scripted, overly verbose AI that makes you think it's doing more than it really does. It presents a solid illusion of there being something going on under the hood, but in reality there isn't.

tl;dr - There are no first person shooters that have real variety in AI and get it right.

>>14868563

Slightly annoying to balance out and the normalfag retards can't understand that kind of complexity unless they turn into an online guide, recent examples is how bullshit and worthless Destiny 2's builds are along with weapon and gear.

>>14868563

>rather than more tangible things such as how well the character handle recoil, how steady his aim is, how fast his reload is and the reload technique he uses, how fast he pulls out the gun, fire rate for non automatic weapons, etc?

Because those things, whilst they do represent the character becoming better at what they do, still require player skill in order to have any use. It doesn't matter if the character has mastered the art of the quick-draw if the player puts all six shots two feet to the left of where their opponent was standing. The character being able to pull off a lightning-fast reload doesn't help very much if the player is the kind of retard who runs around for five minutes with an empty magazine, only to try reloading after they get ambushed by a group of bad guys. You get the idea. For FPS gameplay to mesh well with RPG elements, the game is going to need to expect at least a basic level of competence from the player. That's expecting far too much from people these days, so we end up with absolute trash "RPG elements" that boil down to equipping the best armour to get more meat points, and the best gun to do more damage, then standing still and holding the left mouse button. It doesn't matter if the player is so bad at aiming that more of their shots miss than hit, or that they still can't figure out how to move and aim at the same time, because this purple gun does twice as much damage as that green gun, and all the enemies in this zone are ten levels below them anyway.

>>14869513

>normalfag retards can't understand that kind of complexity unless they turn into an online guide

Online guides (and the existence of an established "meta" that will inevitably pop up because of the existence of these online guides) suck all the joy out of games. The idea of looking shit up online is just quest markers for the soul: "Tell me what I'm supposed to think!", they say. The idea of trying something different to see if it works or not is completely alien to them. They lack the intelligence needed to learn from their victories, they lack the self-awareness needed to learn from their defeats, and they lack the creativity needed to stray beyond the comfortable and familiar things that they already know. When they succeed, it was either a complete accident, or was orchestrated by somebody else (i.e., the game devs setting them up for an easy "victory", the writer of an online guide telling them how to win, etc.). When they fail, the game is a bad game, or is broken. When they aren't being condescendingly herded along a pre-planned path to see all the "cinematic experiences", the game is confusing, or too hard, or they weren't given clear enough instructions.

Normalfags need to fuck off back to netflix and stay there. They just want to consume entertainment without any effort, but they've decided to latch onto a medium that demands participation from them. It's making them miserable because it's not TV, and it's making me miserable because games are getting turned into TV in order to pander to them.

>>14868563

Because that would require actual effort. It's far easier to change one variable named "dmg". Besides, if you actually go through the effort, you'll get tons of mouth-breathing retards asspained about how the game doesn't feature skill and is all about crunching numbers – look at Kingdom Come, which did what you describe (albeit with medieval weaponry rather than guns), and how many cretins shouted about how the combat is shit because they can't take down a difficult enemy as level 1 (they actually can but it takes assloads of effort and luck). Or consider morrowind, which abstracted it, and to this day you get faggots complaining about "whoosh swing miss". At least Gothic, which did the same thing (albeit in a better way with custom animations and shit) got spared of retard influx.

All in all, you can either put more effort and reap more criticism from retards, or you can put in no effort and suffer almost no criticism. It's no wonder devs take the second option most of the time.

>>14870165

>Toy gun is the ultimate weapon if you upgrade it all the way.

I love it when games do that sort of thing.

>>14870211

Right? If only more jrpgs did this. Dirge of Cerberus really doesn't deserve all the flack it gets. I understand people see the ff7 name and start chimping out, but it really is a fun game. I might actually do another playthrough on my next weekend.

It would be pointless.

You'd just replace a bunch of numbers (accuracy/damage/crit chance) with different numbers (recoil, steady aim, speed of reaload, etc.). Effect on gameplay would be zero. Number is a number, it doesn't matter how you name the variable which store it.

New Vegas had

>Quick Draw

>Rapid Reload

>Weapon Handling

>>14868563

Call of Juarez: gunslinger had a skill tree including reload speed and techniques. Good game.

>>14870165

I was going to say that a shooter with analog aim is going to be ultimately disappointing to me but it turns out that it has keyboard and mouse support despite being a PS2. I heard that the mouse aim wasn't good but they tried which is more than what I can say about most console FPS games.

>>14868695

>then you better have a lot of non combat skills and branching objectives to counter the shooting parts.

All the FPS-RPG hybrids I like have options for stealth. And some sort of "hacking" system to destroy or slave bots, access cameras, among many other things. It's weird you mention New Vegas, because they understood how to develop, and implement the different skills.

>>14869750

>still require player skill in order to have any use

And that means it gives the player more control over the outcome though, but I know what you're talking about.

>>14870426

>You'd just replace a bunch of numbers (accuracy/damage/crit chance) with different numbers (recoil, steady aim, speed of reaload, etc.).

>Effect on gameplay would be zero.

Of course not. With recoil and aim mechanics for example, player would be able to see where their gun sways and points at in aim down sight. More visual feedback and more ability for the player to control the situation. If the gun just sprays the bullets all over the place randomly away from where the barrel is pointing, that would be something the player won't be able to handle. It's important to give the player more control even if their character is supposed to be a sluggish limp wrist weakling.

because it's less work.

Hilariously enough, Killer7 and, to a lesser extent, Resident Evil 4 did this 15 years ago.

>>14871285

>completely forgot about reload speed upgrades in RE4

Nevermind, they both focused on it.

>>14871514

Interesting idea for a game, though. The harem ending was best girl all along, and at the end of the game you literally shoot yourself in order to tell the galactic spic he has to go back. I'd play the shit out of it.