/v/ - Video Games

>>14775053

I don't like the meme vector graphics, but reminds me of Warning Forever and other freeware games.

Speaking of Space Invaders, what about that one which got ported to Steam recently?

isn't that just the dingodile fight?

>>14775076

As someone who hates when bullets just blend into the background in some shooters, these graphics are a godsend.

>>14775113

It's pretty good. It's a port from Extreme on NDS. It's more like the classic one unlike infinity gene.

>>14775131

From Crash 3?

>>14775076

I don't like you.

/v/ is too shit at games to be into this genre. Btw, Treasure is releasing Ikaruga again on the PS4. Someone should slip Maegawa a memo telling them to hurry up and port Radiant Silvergun HD and the Bangai-Os to PC already.

>>14775197

>Treasure is releasing Ikaruga again on the PS4

We really don't need yet another Ikaruga release, especially when even the toastiest of toasters can run it.

Modern remakes of Space Invaders hardly bear any resemblance to the game they take their title from. If you haven't actually played Space Invaders, you should grab an emulator and do that. Also play Yars' Revenge and River Raid while you're at it.

>>14775241

I have played Space invaders on the Atari. I do need to play Yars' Revenge.

>>14775197

>/v/ is too shit at games to be into this genre

The genre's never appealed to me, but what's actually hard about it? It just looks like pattern memorization and repetition.

>>14776747

How you approach enemies/bosses and/or manipulating some of the bosses (eg. making less projectiles disappear or easier to dodge). There's also some other shit like drawing a map (memorization) and scoring. Some shoot em ups might have weird rules like the game gets harder the more you shoot or have more powerup.

>>14776747

When you get good it becomes less about memorization/repetition and more about pure reflexes and being on constant, never-ending edge, and the genre goes from hours long grinding into bite-sized half an hour delights of pure thrill in the zone. Shit, that's why difficulty options in shmup games that have them (that aren't Touhou) tend to just increase bullet speed rather than add more bullet patterns or whatever.

>>14776747

>It just looks like pattern memorization and repetition.

This can be applied to virtually every video game in existence (see: speedrunning community) with the obvious exception of multiplayer games. Even games with some RNG elements are usually manipulated to some extent (and shmups with excess RNG bullet spray can get very retarded very quickly).

>>14776790

Amen to that brother. I'm still kinda shit at shmups, but when I get good at one, it's pure bite-sized bliss.

>>14776747

Welcome to video games. If you want simpler patterns and less to memorize, play first person shooters. I hear Stalker is popular here.

>>14776747

Should you try to get good at anything, pattern memorization and repetition are an inevitability, no matter the genre. Some games have more RNG to them and more about reaction, and some are more about the process of 'figuring out' a stage. Some games try to alleviate the ensuing frustration of losing by adding checkpoints every 2 minutes or giving you the ability to savescum, but nothing quite beats the rush of clearing an intense arcade gauntlet of 30-50 minutes without losing all your lives.

>>14778445

What's more fun is sharpening your reaction time to the point that you see oncoming threats and react flawlessly to them.

>>14775053

>Favorite shmup for slow play and bullet hell?

As much as it gets shit on Touhou 6+ does just fine for me.

>Favorite modern shmups and classic ones?

Only real modern one I've played is Varstray and I quite enjoyed it despite being very easy

ChoRenSha is still my all time favorite

In a different style I also quite like Space Invaders 1999

>What game have you 1cc recently?

KAMUI

>Good introduction games for newfags?

Varstray and ChoRenSha

>>14776747

t. IGN

I'm new to shmups but I'm working on 1cc-ing Deathsmiles at the moment. The final boss is tough as hell. Any tips?

>>14779880

Shoot him until he dies

>>14779923

I'm pretty sure the only IP Sega owns is Gunstar.

>>14779923

>>tfw it will be trapped forever on the 3DS

>>14776747

There's bullet hells that can be beaten on reaction time instead of pattern memorization.

These are what are known as 'the ones that aren't shit.'

touhou past 8 is shit

>>14775053

>Infinity Gene

My nigga. What's your favorite weapon type?

>>14781961

By you own logic Th10 isn't shit

Finally got around to playing Radiant Silvergun recently. I always thought Ikaruga was extremely overrated, but this one just straight up fucking sucks. Tedious, frustrating mechanics, overlong, and a really bland soundtrack.

>>14787505

Depends entirely on the game you're interested in.

>>14787505

>How long does it take to get good at shmups? I didn't think I'd actually have to play video games in order to be good.

In raw playtime between 10 and 2000hr probably higher than that if you're looking at something really stupidly hard, depends on what level you're at and what you're aiming for, most normal mode 1CC should be under the 50hr mark, even less once you start accumulating experience across many games.

>>14787505

If you use save states / snapshoting ram / editing memory (for practicing stages exclusively and maybe even skipping intros of some games)

you can get good a bit faster imo, but i found this ancient guide and it really does breathe a new perspective into playing shmups if you're new, ultimately breaks the genre down for specifically surviving not scoring at shmups.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050217185540/www.shmups.com/beepreying/old/stgtools.txt

I might make a pdf in it's honor

Darius Gaiden has a fabulous diversity of dodging situations and survival techniques. If you want to learn to get good at a lot of different shooters, learn to play that game without bombing.

Is there a list for essential and recommended Shmup vidya?

>>14781965

So far, I just haven't been able to leave good ol' rapid behind. I have to try with more weapons.

>>14782061

Ikaruga is overrated, but it's still damn good.

>>14788339

>but it's still damn good.

I disagree, Ikaruga has an extremely tedious and frustrating scoring system that you can't ignore and it's one of the most rote memorizers out there (much moreso than say Gradius or R-Type). And it's not the fun and interesting kind of memorization. The boss depth evaporates once you figure out that one method of killing them fastest and do the same thing over and over every time, while the stages have you memorize elaborate scoring pathways where you fuck yourself pretty hard if make even a single mistake. The only real exception to the drudge of memorization is its final boss, which is a really strange difficulty spike compared to the rest of the game.

>>14789101

It has "Treasure Syndrome" aka It's cool the first time you play it but if you ever try to go indepth the game becomes way worse.

>>14788173

Just play cool ones you've heard quite a bit about before. Avoid euroshmups. My personal favorite is the Cotton games, with Boomerang being my favorite but I think most of the Cotton games are worth playing.

>>14789228

>Avoid euroshmups.

Tyrian did nothing wrong.

>>14782061

>Tedious, frustrating mechanics

Git gud kid.

>overlong

Play arcade mode, which is only about 35-45 minutes.

>really bland soundtrack.

Bait. It's one of the better Sakimoto compositions.

>>14789439

>Bait. It's one of the better Sakimoto compositions.

lol, no it fucking isn't. His Raizing and Ogre Battle work puts that to shame. It's almost hard to believe he even composed that boring repetitive garbage.

Radiant Silvergun must have been the side job that Sakimoto threw on a wall while he was composing his actual master work.

>>14790585

>It's entirely ignorable under Hard anyways.

roflwut

Have you even played the game seriously my friend? Ikaruga is challenging enough that getting extra ships is pretty important. Stage 4 takes quite a bit of work to memorize and the final boss is a huge difficulty spike. Unfortunately, the score requirements for each extra ship are fairly high, so you really can't ignore the scoring system. And unfortunately, the scoring system makes you play like a robot, sapping all the enjoyment out of what would normally be rewarding to figure how to survive some action variation. Ikaruga is an autistic puzzle game masquerading as an action shooter.

>a 1-life game like R-Type

R-Type is absolutely not a one-life game, it has imminently recoverable checkpoints throughout the game. The only really tough recovery is the middle of stage 7, but it's still completely doable.

>>14792930

>Have you even played the game seriously my friend? Ikaruga is challenging enough that getting extra ships is pretty important

If you are deliberately trying to chain as much as possible, then you are already playing the game in a much harder way balanced by the fact that you'll at least get some extends. Instead you could opt to play the game in an easier way by blasting everything while disregarding chaining entirely, but like I said that's only doable under Hard. You don't need those extends to clear the game. Ironically, you want to make it easier for yourself by scoring to gain extra lives even though scoring is what makes it harder on you. The silver lining being that you can play on a higher level.

>And unfortunately, the scoring system makes you play like a robot, sapping all the enjoyment out of what would normally be rewarding to figure how to survive some action variation

I have to ask what you mean by this, because in my eyes any game with a scoring system will have you "autistically" memorizing a route you gotta execute perfectly to score high. That's just what these systems reinforce by design, especially these kind of chaining systems as seen in Dodonpachi, Mars Matrix, Strikers III, what have you. I think I get what your beef actually is with Ikaruga after having spoken to others with similar gripes, but I can only guess, and I'll leave it up to you how to articulate your feelings properly on the subject.

>Ikaruga is an autistic puzzle game masquerading as an action shooter.

I don't really get this either. The implication that 'shmup is puzzle game = therefore bad' has no real logical connection to it. Maybe this just isn't your kind of game? After all, you have the whole rhythm game genre which is 100% memorization and extreme execution to my ignorant ass, it would be silly to then blast rhythm games for being memo-heavy as if it was an objective flaw. R-Type, Gradius and Border Down are often referred to as 'memorizers' without that term carrying any negative connotation. Merely that you know up front what you are dealing with.

>sapping all the enjoyment out of what would normally be rewarding to figure how to survive some action variation

I cannot make any sense of this.

>R-Type is absolutely not a one-life game, it has imminently recoverable checkpoints throughout the game

First loop, sure. Second loop, no. Just no. You can't convince me with words that recovery is feasible on the second loop other than on 2-1 to 2-3.

>>14793867

>The implication that 'shmup is puzzle game = therefore bad'

All the puzzler greats like Tetris Attack and Puyo have some degree of randomization where the skill is in recognizing patterns. Ikaruga is the shitty kind of puzzle game where there's only one puzzle to solve and it never changes because it plays exactly the same every single time.

>>14793948

>All the puzzler greats like Tetris Attack and Puyo have some degree of randomization where the skill is in recognizing patterns

Yet other (arguable) puzzle greats like the Zachtronics games, The Talos Principle, VVVVVVV, and Ghost Trick don't, so it's kind of presumptuous to think RNG is an essential part of the genre. Sounds more like it's about your tastes.

>Ikaruga is the shitty kind of puzzle game where there's only one puzzle to solve and it never changes because it plays exactly the same every single time

Depends on what you mean, because you can actually control incoming enemy formations to spawn additional waves or less depending on how fast you kill certain enemies to change the outcome of some waves, and it's more or less the kind of puzzle where you're pushed to optimize it rather than just solve it.

>because it plays exactly the same every single time

I don't really see how, nor do I see how there's nothing inherently wrong with this. More people would actually hold that against arcade games in their entirety because you're constantly replaying them over and over.

>>14793867

>in my eyes any game with a scoring system will have you "autistically" memorizing a route you gotta execute perfectly to score high

A lot of games have somewhat randomized enemy appearance and behavior, and Yagawa games for instance have different sequences of enemy item drops every time you play. Sure, you know the general layout of background bonuses in a stage, but juggling and avoding the stuff that enemies drop means that any two playthroughs are usually different. Many games also have varied boss behavior. In Ikaruga the bosses and stage sequences are the same all the time, and when combined with its rigid, punishing scoring system that cannot be ignored means that you have to become a robot to beat it.

Hell even your example of Mars Matrix is a poor contrast. In Mars Matrix very small perturbations in your bullet return can fling bullets across the screen, creating cubes somewhere unexpected where you have to improvise a way to maintain your chain and ends up making you play differently from the last time. Ikaruga just doesn't have this kind of variability. Ship movement from playthrough to playthrough is extremely homogenous.

Now this is all kind of beating around the bush though. The real problem with this argument of saying a punishing robot-like scoring system is okay because it's just like going for the world record score in any other game is, what if someone doesn't want play at that sort of level? The problem with scoring systems like this is there's no happy medium in the middle where novice players can slide their skill up the ladder until they become experts. You either attempt to ignore the scoring system entirely, or you play the game as if you're optimizing for the record from the start. I always find it kind of ironic that Ikaruga has this kind of mass appeal when it has this problem. Gotta be the Treasure cult.

I'm pretty good at Ikaruga by the way. In my clear of the game I full-chained every stage except the 4th. I'm never going to touch that awful experience again now.

>>14793948

I've always held the opinion that there are two types of puzzle games: static puzzlers and dynamic puzzliers. The former like Riven being inferior to the latter like Tetris. Is Riven a fun experience the first time around? Sure, but how often do you replay it? You practically have to wait 10 years until you've completely forgotten the solutions to the puzzles before you can derive any satisfaction from solving them again.

>>14794161

VVVVVV is fucking trash.

>>14795192

>what if someone doesn't want play at that sort of level

You can chain the easier parts and just blast your way through the harder ones, it's what I did anyways. For example, depending on how quickly you can kill the last white laser cannon in ST1 and the ensuing enemy ring, a variable additional amount of enemies will spawn between the two train carts. But because it's trickier to successfully chain the additional zakos while taking out the side-turrets on both trains, I found it easier to let the white cannon live a bit longer so less enemies would spawn. There exists a theoretical maximum achievable score for everything, but depending on the game even superplayers will sometimes say fuck it and try to survive at the very end to secure that clear instead of trying to gain more points.

>creating cubes somewhere unexpected where you have to improvise

There's no point in trying to bring up improvisation in this discussion, because improvisation isn't what you should be ideally striving for (as a player). If I miss a particular enemy in Ikaruga part of my chain, the improvisation here involves waiting until an another enemy of the right color comes along after which I can resume my chain. The only difference being that Mars Matrix ideally requires even higher precision or anticipation to mitigate potential losses. (And even then messing up a chain in MM hits harder because of the ridiculous exponential EXP scaling, whereas Ikaruga's chain bonus caps out fairly quickly, meaning you can recover score-wise fairly quickly as well). You have a point if you mean to say it's humanly impossible to play perfectly these kind of games perfectly, but then you have to consider how absorbing a bullet in Ikaruga does give you some points and how the suicide bullet spread for each enemy is randomized(?), which is it's own layer of optimization and scoring opportunities entirely, and would bring it closer to how you describe Mars Matrix.

>You either attempt to ignore the scoring system entirely, or you play the game as if you're optimizing for the record from the start.

You chain what you can and just try to survive the rest. What makes you think only two extremes exist in Ikaruga? I wouldn't know what kind of scoring system can't fit that bill. You don't have to go for the WR immediately, depending on your skill level there's obvious boundaries what you can't and what you can do, and it's up to you how far you decide to push the game for more score.

>combined with its rigid, punishing scoring system that cannot be ignored means that you have to become a robot to beat it.

That's just the type of game it is. A memorizer.

How'd you guys enjoy Treasure's Silpheed? I picked it up for cheap but haven't gotten around to playing it yet.