/v/ - Video Games

yes

wont sage tho because I'm not gay like the rest of this board

>add warfronts (20-player PvE mode against opposite faction NPCs)

They're admitting it's dead now right?

I'd say they should make a sequel but its not like much of the talent from the first would be returning.

>>14720204

>Sequel to an MMO

So Guild Wars 2?

I really have to wonder why they haven't gotten rid of factions yet. With WoW bleeding subs for the past eight years, you'd think they'd want to remove as many barriers keeping their shrinking playerbase apart as possible.

>>14720177

PVP is going to be entirely opt-in, too. Even on PVP servers, you can avoid getting ganked by just not being flagged for PVP.

Are you retarded or something OP?

Have you not followed what Blizzard has been doing for the last 5 years?

>>14720168

>Is it going to suck?

Has Blizzard done a single good thing this decade?

>>14720233

>PVP is going to be entirely opt-in, too. Even on PVP servers, you can avoid getting ganked by just not being flagged for PVP.

Wew.

>>14720233

There just won't be any distinction between PVE and PVP servers anymore. You can opt in or out at any time no matter what server you're on, with PVP supposedly having greater rewards to justify the ganking potential.

But be honest, when was the last time world PVP was anything beyond a few max level characters showing up at some low level hub and killing all the NPCs to aggravate people just trying to level?

>>14720246

I guess some of the porn that came out of Overwatch counts as good?

>>14720279

furries fuck off

>>14720279

It's not a coincidence that the game went to shit starting when they added Worgens and Pandas.

>>14720279

more

>>14720291

it was always shit

>>14720168

WoD was way worse than panda faggotry.

>>14720294

>it was always shit

True.

>more

https://e621.net/post/index/1/pandaren

>>14720329

Just keep it to under three posts and the mods won't ban you.

>>14720335

we both know that is not true.

>>14720341

It depends which mod sees it and what the context is.

>>14720294

>>14720291

>>14720285

What got deleted?

>>14720501

Pandaporn.

>>14720233

From what I've seen the entire fucking game is opt-in at this point. Everything is walled off and instanced to the point it's entirely possibly to level all the way from start to finish without seeing a single other player, and that's with all of the cross realm phasing they do.

>>14720168

It's legion gameplay wise but less green and worse overall.

>>14720168

It's worse, they put a bunch of abilities back on the GCD for basically no reason and took away master loot for even less reason

>>14720731

>took away master loot

Are they trying to kill raids so they don't have to work hard at making new ones?

>>14720776

Ted Cruz took the nomination loss hard.

See >>14718963

Anyone who admits to actively playing blizzard money and not grossly regretting is should be perma banned. Any thread that isn't about exposing their terrible game design and unethical business practices should be bump locked.

>>>/cuckchan/

>>14720776

Everytime i see blue hair i am reminded how boring and dull its owner truly is.

Its going to be shit. I was interested in rolling a subrace character of some kind, but their racials look far superior to the original racials. They also locked creating a subrace character behind getting exalted with endgame factions. I'm not interested in having to level up twice.

Blizzard is a marxist company.

Everything that they make sucks.

>>14720786

This.

>>14720763

Raids died in Wrath. The last raid was Ulduar. Continuing past that point was a mistake.

WoW is fucking dead, lol!

>>14720254

>not enjoying running around crossroads pointing and shouting at the night elves who've sniped you from the outskirts 5 times already until someone there own size shows up and they run off

>not going back at max level and being the big boy who saves the day for the babbies

>>14720982

I don't like that this image doesn't point out the fact that he just so happened to be guild mates with the lead designer of Warcraft 3.

>>14720992

I thought Throne of Thunder was breddy gud, best raid since Ulduar.

>>14720982

This image is by casuals for casuals. If you aren't pandering to the top 0.0001% who are you pandering to? FUCKING CASUALS that's who.

>>14721080

I don't fucking care if this image is for casuals or for hardcores. What I care is to point that (((Jeffrey Kaplan))) is a kike and he ruins everything he touches, out of pure spite against the goyim he hates so much.

>>14721090

Good lord I hate every single model made since Wrath. Everything looks like a fucking Dreamworks movie.

>>14721098

Apparently cuckchan went down again and they are raiding.

>>14721141

Goons and twittershitters want every thread here that isn't a general deleted.

>>14720233

What was the reasoning behind this? Did some faggot with thick frame glasses and a top knot come up with this idea to accommodate for his inadequacy after getting stunned and dotted to death while playing this game with a stylus and while drinking a Soylent meal replacement shake at the same time?

>>14721151

They probably got a particularly negative comment regarding world PvP from one of their whales. This entire game's design philosophy was built off of appeasing retards who whine on the forums after all.

>>14721141

Making threads to ask pointless questions like "is this WoW expansion going to suck" falls in line with the stupidity you'd find on cuckchan.

>>14721151

>Hey, Celestalon, did you ever like, realize that wPVP is not like, consensual at all? I think everyone should consent to PVP and being on a pvp server is NOT an automatic consent.

t. Perculia

>>14721141

If you have spent more than a few weeks here you would have already seen multiple posts about why Blizzard is shit and why WoW is shit. It is routinely discussed at length. So if you're unironically making a non-negative thread about these two things I'd say there's a 99% chance that you're a newfag strolling through here because cuckchan went down for the 100th time this month.

which composers does wow have left? Wondering what I can expect for the music, somehow I have the feeling that they've significantly downsized their music staff, I'm not sure they even have the budget anymore to use orchestras for the login theme

>>14721151

World PvP is a pointless gimmick outside of vanilla WoW. Legion WPvP was just broken classes with a million legendaries 1 shotting people by looking in their direction. E-celebrity streamer niggers probably cried as people kept hunting them down.

I'm almost 100% certain that they are going to implement some feature to deal with the griefing in nuClassic WoW too just to appeal to streamer niggers. Even on PvE servers there are a million ways to grief streamfags.

>>14721364

She looks so jewish that it's almost like a parody.

>>14720168

Anon, Mists of Pandaria was the last good expansion gameplay wise

>>14721376

>Alexis Kusy

Kusy Name Meaning

Czech and Slovak (Kusý), Polish, and Jewish (from Poland): nickname for a person of short stature, from Polish kusy ‘short’, Czech kusý ‘incomplete’, ‘unfinished’, ‘truncated’.

Source: Dictionary of American Family Names ©2013, Oxford University Press

Yep, you can check this

>>14721390

Pure coincidence

>>14721389

Too late, his awful decisions and leftism pandering will stain this game forever. Also, he still works at Blizzkike, right?

>>14721395

Funny thing is, she's really an unfinished woman and as jewish she's an incomplete human being.

>>14721105

That's because Blizzard hires their new employees from Ringling university, the same university that the kids graduate who work with Dreamworks and Pixar as their role models.

NuBlizzard pretty much is Ringling interns and graduates who don't really give a shit about videogames but want to animate cartoons.

>>14721405

To elaborate,it's supposed to be the go-to animation, illustration and design school in America. Pixar/Dreamworks/Disney fish for their interns there. Blame whatever fucking suit thought it was a good idea letting people who never played a game work on games.

>>14721405

>>14721413

This sounds awfully a lot like Blizzard doing favors for Hollywood, and considering all of the celebrity ads they used to run I doubt it was done without compensation.

>>14721400

Blizzard is polluted by marxists, SJWs and kikes

But that's not all. They are independently proud arrogant piece of shits that will never admit a mistake and shit on their playerbase if it means making more profit by pandering to casuals. Don't forget "You think you want vanilla, but you don't" along with "nobody misses cata guild levels. You won't miss your burst having no GCD" and their fucking pretentious bullshit to excuse or evade telling the truth: they are casualizing the game because it makes more money making it easier.

There's a very simple rule of thumb in online communities. If your online community is being invaded by BR, Chinese, Women or normalfag casuals, that's a red flag your game is changing playerbases.

It's pathetic when Illidan horde is forced to download an addon called "Block Chinese" just to be able to socialize or communicate with their faction because the chinese FLOOD the chat rooms with chinese spam and ching chong talk

the chinese don't even play with americans

Anyone who plays on servers like illidan are cucks

>>14721429

>They are independently proud arrogant piece of shits that will never admit a mistake

Funny how this perfectly describes the likes of Celestajew, (((Jeffrey Kaplan))) and Hazzikostas, among others. I think Blizzard North was the point out of the curve.

>>14721429

You don't want vanilla until people have sunk thousands of hours into developing an open source almost 1:1 replica from the ground up and we get butthurt about people profiting off of our IP so we give you vanilla out of spite but layer it with cancer just to make sure you didn't actually end up enjoying it by accident.

>>14721429

Fuckin this.

At WoD, it was was when I truly was sick of WoW. I really enjoyed it up to cata, it wasn't that great, stopped playing a bit during panda, but played enough of WoD to just be pissed off at how much shittier they made the game within only two expacs. So disappointing.

>>14721474

The game went from "Want gear? earn it. Then when you have gear, you can shit on people and have fun" to "everybody deserves free gear. Everybody should have fun. What's that? effort? meritocracy? nah just don't even bother playing. Just play the facebook game in your garrison and get free titanforge gacha gear!"

WoD is when the game went to shit. MoP was the last good expansion, and mainly because the filthy piece of shits didn't put their greasy hands on the game until then. Ghostcrawler was a pro-casual, but at least he had the decency to prune very slowly around the bushes without making sudden changes. when Celestalon got in charge he just threw the game out the window without any care for the playerbase or the game.

>>14721440

They let the slants shit up the global channels now on NA servers? Hilarious, because ages ago one of the only ways to actually catch a chat based suspension was chinkrunes in a global channel.

>>14721502

I remember dogeaters and huezillians shitting up trade chat as far back as late TBC. Can't imagine how bad it is now.

who fucking cares

everyone is going to play classic instead

>>14721144

>octosquidbutt

o fug does that mean she has a beak in her vag

>WoW

>Ever good

>>14720168

>We're running out of Big Bad's to base our expansions on!

>Look, more customization and it only took 12 years to get it out while non-blizzard MMOs have better options to choose from!

It really is.

>>14720254

That was what made it fun faggot. The escalation made the game feel alive. You remove that and the game is current year WoW

Without the usual /v/ kneejerk bullshit yes i think it will. It looks in many regards like another cataclysm style 'house keeping expansion'. A lot of resources spent on updating old models and things like allied races are neat in theory but from a design standpoint its a case of "we tweaked an existing model and this one slight cosmetic change will make the player replay the levelling experience" to pad time played.

Some ideas are neat. Kul Tiras looks cool if you like the Gilnean tileset which i do, playable kul tirans as these grizzled dudes and thicc women who can be 'wicker witchcraft' evil druids is a cool look and if i played i would totally try one of those.

That said warfronts, island expeditions, allied races, only 3 zones for the levelling story per faction? it screams 'low budget, trying to coast on as little none replayable content as possible' in execution like cataclysm without the monumental added on work load of redoing two continents to such a degree as they did with the Shattering patch.

The interesting thing through it all of course is the Horde players used to the 'noble savage living the underdog life against those snobby fukkin' human beans!' fantasy are now having to be the guy sitting at the front in his SS uniform going "hans… are we the baddies?" as they plague bomb their own troops and burn down ashenvale -which is the orcs only source of wood and all faction conflict in Kalimdor but i guess blizzard forgot this- all for sylvanas. Sure her waifufag fanboys defend her because she is a grimdark, immortal, undead mary sue elf queen that keeps her tits when she should be rotten but if you signed up for the image of dry lands, huts and shaman and shit then going straight up nazi regime might be somewhat of a disconnect, with void elves joining the alliance i think they might actually see the blueberries overtake the horde for the first time since BC in user numbers.

Still overall it looks like a low budget product to run the game for another two years on as little post launch work as possible. I'm sure there will be some enjoyable aspects like great art for such an old game and island expeditions might be fun for a month but form an objective point of view without the usual contrarian hipsterism involved it looks like a disappointment in the making.

>>14721875

Shadow priest is shit in legion

>>14721899

>I got BFA for free

Still too expensive.

>>14721909

Still have to pay for the sub fee, yeah, but $15 for something like 35-50hrs of entertainment per month is a pretty fair trade.

>>14721927

Have you considered the price of being an insufferable faggot? Do you really think the price tag is why people don't like WoW? Tone down your fucking autism spacing as well you stupid nigger.

>>14721875

You know its already been datamined this is an expansion bringing cthun and yogg saron back as the villains right?

>>14721969

Gotta make sure sylvanas becoming stalin is old god control, can't upset their modern core audience by suggesting communism is bad.

Legion was really enjoyable, but it certainly wouldn't woo anyone alienated from the game back. I doubt this will be much different.

>>14720329

please post girls with penises

>>14721891

butterlord never ever

>>14722215

The changes to low lvl mechanics and especially the battlegrounds made me start playing wow again. I have no intention of subscribing though, f2p edition is enough for me.

>>14721970

That sounds more like "no sane human being would ever come up with communism" but I doubt the writers will catch that.

>>14722873

You can disagree all you want, it just makes you a retard.

>>14722902

Retaards have opinions too, yes.

>>14722905

Classic is never going to come out.

>>14722917

i believe it more than the ff7 remake coming out.

>>14722928

I genuinely believe the only reason they announced it was to expand their legal bullshit jurisdiction. There was no intent to actually finish and release a glorified international copyright squat.

>>14720168

I'm in beta. It already sucks, and with just four months left they are not going to fix it. They can tweak it all they want, the problem is Blizzards design philosophy. The term 'creatively bankrupt' has been floating around and it's not wrong.>>14720168

>>14722940

How much content would you bet is going to get cut before release?

>>14720254

The only people still playing the game are the insufferable children that think that was a good thing.

>>14722948

I don't think they will cut anything as frankly once you get in and start playing there's not much new going on. But the features they are trying to sell as amazing will not be amazing. Some will be broken. So far the new so called super intelligent AI just jumps around a lot and is beaten easy. Loads of quests broken and huge amounts of 'coming soon' and 'WIP' everywhere. It's going to be a rush job, unless their build is a huge advancement. For me though it does not mater how much new content there is or even if it's amazing. Every class I have tried is boring to play. What does the content mater if the vehicle to experience it is boring and uninspired.

>>14722962

There's no way they aren't going to arbitrarily cut something and I wouldn't be surprised, given how bloated ActiBlizz is, if there was one guy specifically employed to cut shit just for the sake of it.

>>14720233

Best thing about EQ2 was the faction betrayal questline. I played a frogman necromancer and people always did a doubletake when they saw me

>>14720168

>MoP

>Worst Expansion

>Worse than WoD

>Worse than Cata

Sorry fam, but you're mistaken.

That being said, I've played a bit of the Beta and it's okay. Definitely not worse than Legion, which wasn't the worst expansion by a long shot.

>>14721811

To be honest, I think Sylvanas will get the axe at some point in the future, possibly the end of the expansion. This is hinted at by Saurfang refusing to re-join her after you free him from the Stockades, stating he would never be part of "her" Horde.

Bitch has it coming, seriously. My guess is that Blizzard wanted to get rid of her as far back as MoP, but because Metzen was protecting his waifu they went with Garrosh instead, hence him acting so out of character in MoP.

>>14723005

Meet the Feebles.

It was made by the guy who directed Lord of the Rings.

Seriously.

>>14723535

I think it's alright. Biggest complaint is that it's missing the snake hair.

>>14723541

She has snake hair. Or tentacle hair. Or something.

The model is t-posed, so all the extremities are pointed out. That white shit around her head? Snakes or tentacles.

>>14723562

Doesn't look like snakes since it seems to glow.

>>14721385

Unironically this. Legion was a step up from WoD, but that isn't saying much. Blizz shit the bed when it came to legendaries and RNG fuckery in general.

Also, LOL

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20763446138?page=1

>>14724135

I looked at a map of Dreanor and the worst thing is that the continent you're on is literally the exact same shape of Outland. It's like a Looney Tunes joke done with a completely straight face.

>>14724324

>the continent you're on is literally the exact same shape of Outland.

Are you dense?

>>14724325

Not as much as you apparently.

>>14724331

Since Draenor literally is an alternate/earlier version of Outland, what exactly is your point?

>>14720246

Fixing Warcraft 3

>Blizzard

You mean Activision.

>>14724344

What did they do?

If they ended this game with a good final and started a new MMO from scratch they'd be more successful I think. It's been going on for like 14 years at this point

>>14724372

They are only interested in chasing the new normalfag meme game these days. They are currently hiring for a new game thought to be a battle royale of some kind. They will never make another MMO after binning Titan.

>>14720168

>no master loot

>GCD change

>more pruning then ever before

>half of everything that should've been in the alpha >blizz is silent since weeks

Reading the WoW forums hasn't been this fun since the real name change.

So yeah, it'll be a dumpster fire like WoD if not more.

>>14724678

>half of everything that should've been in the alpha still missing in the beta

>>14724678

>FFXIV consitently making wicked bank for square enix

>WoW census put active players at 900k for the first time since like the storms of azeroth 1.6 patch

>Now trying to imitate XIV's gcd.

You think this timeline will stop surprising you but it never does.

>>14724695

Last I heard 14 was bleeding subs but it still wouldn't surprise me if was above WoW either.

>>14724304

>So the fact that people can get on me without my consent is very unsettling, it's invasive.

This community man.

>>14724304

>druids, especially balance seem to be fucked beyond redemption in BfA

>conent complains for riding form gets attention instead

I'm not even suprised. I just enjoy the shitshow.

>>14724825

And to think my most vivid trade chat memory was a live commentary of Saddam Hussein's execution.

>>14724771

it flip flops between 500 and 800k subs constantly but it makes a fuck ton of money by having a system where each years holiday events are unique and they sell previous years items on a cash shop on the website. Miss the witches broomstick mount 3 years ago? or didnt play yet? just $5 for that and a pair of spats or slutty halloween thigh highs goyim. It makes them far more money than it costs to make.

Meanwhile WoW still seems to be designed in a "t-theres another 12 gorrillion we just havent found the formula to tap it yet!" each time and it only stagnates and rumour is hearthstone has been covering wows design and maintenance/marketing losses for like 5 years now.

>>14720323

I fucking love this movie.

>>14724991

It's just incredible to me that SE of all companies manages to actually make two frugal MMOs that don't require sixty gorillian subscribers to turn a profit like all these other hacks claim they're bleeding dry with over 2 million active subscribers. Crazy shit.

>>14725010

I'm just amazed they managed to turn 14 around. I played that at release and it was total disaster, and no one had any hope that basically unreleasing it and doing it over was going to accomplish more than failing twice.

>>14725032

As much as I'd have preferred it fail considering how much of a blatant WoW clone it is seeing people prefer it's visual style over WoW gives me tingles. Even if the races and monsters are just knockoffs of the ones from 11, or flat out the same model, they're still miles more pleasing to look at than anything Blizzard has shat out in going on 15 years now.

wheres my fucking dance studio that was promised in wrath promotional material?

>>14725010

Thats the secret captain: mmos dont need to target millions to succeed. A million players with 250k locked in for the duration and a update every 3 months is a vector for a none invasive cash shop bonanza.

You know trion must be so salty they cant get it right.

>look at allied races

>void elfs are rough english accents

have blood elves been literal posers the whole time?

>>14725051

No shit, but you'd think a company as bad as Square would be the ones to mismanage this shit. Not the nobodies who made every other shitty MMO since Everquest 2. I guess ex Blizzard/Verant employees are just really, really bad with money.

I've been out of the loop, but I just found out Celestalon "voluntarily quit" the WoW dev team. I'm assuming class design has improved a thousandfold since then?

>>14725089

they want to get rid of one click rotation macros and casuals are having melt downs but thats all i know.

>>14725089

Nah, for BfA they removed the artifact weapon and legendaries, effectivley removing a massive chumk of passive abilities that made most classes/specs playable. They have the new armor that is supposed to replace it, but so far in the alpha and beta of BfA it's missing for the most part and even the fanboys in the forums are taking note of it.

>>14725089

he got moved to hearthstone, but the people that put someone like him in a position like that in the first place are still there - so what do you think?

>>14724324

And the best parts are all cut out Faralon and ogre lands? gone Mirror image of hell-like Karazhan? gone. (crypt is different) Azjol-Nerub? the only zone that would've been really unique in northrend? reduced to a dungeon with a key character made into an easy as fuck boss. The only thing that seems good in BFA is that they're making Wintergrasp a battleground I think, If I even planned on playing wow.

>>14724325

>>14724340

The fucking planet exploded. You can jump off into space in outland. Unless you believe in Flat-Draenor then sure all the water just evaporated and there are no other continents minus ogre-land. Outland makes sense being smaller since the planet exploded, not WoD map.

>>14725130

True but its the suffering i enjoy. I remember back in the Throne of Thunder patch -which i will fucking absolutely defend as the last good content update for Warcraft- and a ban wave caught a bunch of giga casuals that had a fully automated bot for LFR because "expecting to know a rotation AND know when to move is too hard blizz FFS!" from a bunch of swifty clones. Fucking chodes.

>>14724825

On the flipside, almost everyone in that thread (and the majority, looking at the upvote counts of posts) finds that post to be ridiculous.

Honestly, with a few exceptions (RP servers and Proudmoore US), the WoW community, at least in NA, is nowhere near as pozzed as the Overwatch community is, which might explain why anti-toxicity rule enforcement is much more lax in WoW for the time being.

>>14725003

Calling it now: The events that occur in BFA will lead to a proper old god expansion, which still won't be as good as that sounds.

>>14725089

Not quite. Some classes have gotten even worse, going by the beta so far. Mostly due to the shitty GCD change. Even if optimistic, it would take years to un-fuck classes.

>>14725327

>so they just listen to retards on the WoW forum.

So nothing's really changed then.

>>14725428

Thats a lot of effort to go to just for thrall to charge his JO crystal.

>>14725327

blizzard ignores the forums and 99% of the feedback they receive for WoW. They do whatever they think is a good idea, which usually isn't.

Their beta tests are entirely for marketing purposes.

>>14725428

Still better designed than ele shaman

>>14725455

This. There is literally no coherent pattern to their development choices. The forums were filled with people losing their minds over not being able to fly in WoD. For months there was nothing but endless bitching about it and they basically just told them to fuck off until they slipped flying in for the last little bit of the expansion, but gated behind another month of work which made people even more butthurt.

People like to say they develop to appease casuals but I don't think it's true. The best bet I could make is that they use a spin wheel strategy to randomize the decisions they make each patch. That's a lot more reasonable of an explanation over having to believe that there are developers legitimately incompetent enough to create the absolute shit-show that was Legion.

>>14725771

I have a theory that the WoW team is where Blizzard sends its interns, new hires, and disgraced employees, instead of letting them get in the way of projects Blizzard actually cares about.

That way, they get to onboard new people, train them and see what they are capable of, while relegating shitty staff to dead end projects where their careers can die in disgrace. After all, it's not like anything is at stake for Blizzard. WoW players have already proven they will keep playing no matter how shitty and poorly designed the game becomes.

That would explain why Blizzard's changes for the last few expansions either feel random and poorly thought through at best, and down right hostile and passive aggressive to the player base at their worst.

>>14725771

I think it's more that they're trying to appease to every demographic, and with every change they make, they're trying to help someone at the cost of fucking someone else over. The forced personal loot shitshow is probably the most recent example of this.

Why escape into a sub-par fantasy like world of recurring grindlife? I chose warhammer 40k a few months ago as my go to escapism, not that WoW ever was, but thought you losers would like something new to enjoy. No grinding here, just me reading the Warhammer books. What? Kill X mob quest with wall of text attachment? How about no, I will choose an actual, creative narrative that actually has characters you can attach to; instead of this traveling cosmopolitan simulator of a game (I can go on too).

>>14721899

whats your btag anon lets be friends

>THEY'RE ADDING SAN'LAYN

WHAT KIND OF LORE RAPE IS THIS

>>14726880

Did you already forget about the Ji Firepaw shitstorm? Or the Tyrande's Silence thing mentioned earlier? Or the Jaina photograph thing?

Reminder that Legion was so shitty not only did it kill so many raid guilds and shitty Youtubers's careers (good riddance), but also made Fatboss struggle with making videos because no one likes the raids. After seeing that shitty trailer where Sylvanas "encourages" the weak Horde men as a one-woman, feminist army, I'm honestly expecting a lot of Sjw shit being shove down my throat (fuck that trailer). Are you guys ready for more Dindu-sjw shit from Sylvanas?!

>>14721090

None of the Panda raids out of Siege were really fun to do even when they got nerfed.

>>14721148

/fgg/ is already ruined (in before the goon/reddit/neogaf stalker comes here).

>>14721380

This is the same company that made a bigger deal out of Tracer being gay and Austrailia add gay marriage shit were bigger priorities than Diablo's anniversary or fixing Legion's sub-killing problems.

>>14721474

I stopped at MoP when WoD's class changes made playing a Druid in MoP so pointless. They barely admitted their fuck up.

>>14721882

It was broken until NuBlizzard saw how they ruined the first shitty raid.

>>14725089

Nope, classes are still shit, and Legion still catere to range despite a few melee-friendly fights.

>>14720233

The world, open PVP was never an issue before they hyper-pruned the classes of their skills and utilities and made 20 item levels equivalent to 20 actual goddamn levels.

>>14720254

>But be honest, when was the last time world PVP was anything beyond a few max level characters showing up at some low level hub and killing all the NPCs to aggravate people just trying to level?

The thing about that is it's a good way to instigate a battle. You roll into a lowbie area, kill NPCs, and one of the lowbies complains to his guild or logs on to his own main. Then you have high level people from the opposite side coming to oppose them. Does it put a damper on the area for those trying to level? Yes, but that's why the game has multiple areas for the same level range. At least that's how it worked in ye olden days

>>14727667

Too bad that siege meant nothing, and that trailer was a fuck you to Saurfang with Sylvanas being that Dindunuffin, One-woman feminist army.

Pandaria wasn't that bad sure the dailies were annoying as fuck but it wasn't like cata or wod bad

>>14723541

Getting rid of Garrosh was the most stupidest decision ever. All the focus on Metzen's Green Jesus was just fucking cringy either let Thrall die or let him be a family man and quit saving the world and build on the existing characters in WoW than keep milking those that came from the RTS games. Garrosh had so much more potential as a character and they just axed him and pushed the whole "diversity is strength, nationalism is bad!"

>>14727946

>not paying female characters less

>>14727710

The first half of pandaria was excellent, only coming out close to kung fu panda tainted it for people that didnt know about pandaren from the rts games. The fucking year of siege patch which was a raid and 6 quests in durotar was conversely the worst WoW ever was. Just add up how much they expected to charge for a sub for all of that trash.

Funnily though a lot of people i know felt like pandaria was 'the end'. You defeat the literal aspects of negative emotions, your character deals with their own inner bullshit built up over years of being a jobber and it ends with you planting a tree and the pandaren emperors ghost talking about 'what is worth fighting for'. If WoW's rts days has an end that was it.

>>14727946

>People complained about this

I tire of this I need pictures of Orcish battlemaidens

>>14727974

>implying

Vanilla horde players picked it because it was edgy and cool, not that there's anything wrong with that.

>>14727971

MoP is a lot of fun and I like the continent/atmosphere. Classes are all at their peaks in terms of complexity and quantity of abilities, 10 man raiding was ultra comfy and still viable, monks were fun and interesting, all around it was probably one of the best expansions tainted by optics and shitty release scheduling. The furbait panda models were pretty cancerous though.

>>14727971

Do you think if pandaren were just side characters and not playable races people wouldn't be so upset? I personally thought the pandas were ok and even have a character as one but I can see why some people didn't want to play as big fat panda bears. Plus it's not really Blizz's fault that dreamworks made a movie about a similar concept even though W3 Pandarens were made earlier. In all honesty cata and wod were prolly the worst xpacs that came out for wow. The only good thing out of cata was leveling an alt wasn't a pain in the ass anymore more and I'm indifferent to the changes in azeroth considering it given change and more story in while leveling 1-60. I can definitely see why vanilla was considered good too as there was much more detail put into it whereas now there is little to no strategy or depth into wow even though I still play it cuz friends and its still fun for me at least. Also mop brought in catch up mechanics to make it easier to level professions especially cooking which was much needed come later in the game. Also from what I heard the reason why wod didn't have much content like the ogre land and more raids is because they delve alot of their resources into developing the garrisons which were just boring and annoying and not at all fun.

>>14728025

>Classes are all at their peaks in terms of complexity and quantity of abilities

That was probably my favorite part of mop was that each class felt unique and very fun. Hell it was one of the main reasons I decided to do pvp in the later months of xpac on my feral druid alt because it was felt so fun.

>>14728084

I never had a problem because they have a defined identity. They are the brewmaster gourmands just as the Gnomes are engineers, the tauren are shamanic nomads and humans are the hyper fast learning savants that elves are afraid of. They all have something even if its not always in the forefront.

That said some could see it like i do nowadays when an american movie goes "N-NOW FOR NO REASON LETS MOVE THE STORY TO CHINA AND INSERT THIS SLUTTY ACTRESS KNOWN ONLY IN CHINA. P-PLEASE GRANT US A BOON MINISTRY OF CULTURE FOR WE ARE POOR AND NEED HLEP"

>>14728153

Trouble with that is themeing. Legion rightly gets shat on for being fucking nothing but fel green but FFXIV has its own problems by trying to do do seperate storylines, one in the base continent and one in their version of east asia. It divides the art team, music team, writing team. It ends up a hot mess. Even now i hear that while the kul tiras art style and enviroment looks fantastic its story is generic mmo kill 10 rats trash compared to the horde one, because blizzard never divvies up priorities correctly and something in a either or scenario always suffers compared to the others.

>>14728119

The problem is that their models follow the anthromorphic design philosophy rather than the beastman design philosophy applied to the tauren. The men look like pixar characters and the women look like tumblr fapbait. Worgen have the same issue.

>>14728164

worgen are unfinished beta trash. Which is a shame because so many people were fascinated by the greymane wall back in vanilla and gilneas as this foggy gothic horror zone is really neat looking but worgen just get shit out with bad models at teldrassil with fucking nothing else.

>Recolor Orcs

>Recolor Dwarfs

>Different horn Tauren

>No High Elves

>Muh void elves

Fuck blizzard

>>14728214

Allied Ethnicities is much accurate and it only took them 12 years to finally implement more customization options

>>14728231

Options you need to unlock by being lvl 110+

>>14728214

>giving people reskins that modders already enabled for free

but wait there's more

>essentially making them pay $15 for said reskins as virtually everyone who's played past WoD has every class at max level and most people don't have the character slots for a new character let alone are interested in leveling one from scratch just for a purple elf

BfA is essentially paying for access to pay for a colour change to your character and it's being sold as extra content. The fact that people are unironically going to give blizzard money despite this level of unethical practice disgusts me. Anyone that still enables this shit by buying their shitty games deserves to be shot.

>>14727679

People tend to forget Taren Mill vs Southshore wasn't some fucking pop culture meme shit, but a literal case of Hillsbrad being a fucking hotbed of aggression from both sides until it blew up and high levels came flying in to shit on everyone of the opposing faction in their way. Even the quests were designed to agitate and fuck with the other faction. Fucking Helcular. Also never forget Vietnam Vale.

>>14728246

>they've tried to make the underlying casualfest into a hardcore game resulting in a shit game for casual, normal and hardcore players alike. The only people who plays this are addicts.

Modern WoW is practically a mobile game with how much time gated horseshit busywork there is.

>>14721080

No, the problem is that whole formula of MMORPG-games has become more about hitting the highest level as fast as possible, grind for the latest gear and do the same shitty raids over and over, with the same tactics, same rotations of attacks again and again until you're bored to death.

Instead of actually playing a role playing game together with others.

>>14721429

>they are casualizing the game because it makes more money making it easier.

But that's wrong, at one point they made more money when it was not as casualized. Back when it was new. And that goes for most games aswell, when they casuzlized the Splinter Cell-series for instance, the sales dropped compared to previous games.

What people want is good games, not easy games. Nobody buys games because they are easy. Corporations obviously don't understand that.

>>14728214

>coal black nigger ginger dwarves

>not the fucking Wildhammer dwarves people actually wanted

>Alleria, who didn't want to get addicted to arcane/fel magic

>is now addicted to sucking out demon souls or some shit instead

>there aren't enough high elves to make them a playable race

>but enough high elves turned into void elves to make them playable????

>>14728293

Its because they know a staggering amount of blood elves -currently like 70%+ of all horde players- will leave for the alliance and completely crash the two faction system for warfronts.

>>14728246

WoW certainly wasn't a casual game designed by casuals in classic. Raids were pretty hardcore, were completely inaccessible to casuals, and they gave you massive advantages over casuals. A raid-geared tank could tank an entire WSG match. A raid-geared rogue would one-shot ambush a non-raider. The endgame was a choice of either 'git gud' or grinding some bullshit rep like that pirate one I've forgotten in stranglethorn forever. Everything was locked behind raiding, even the top tiers of crafting. Opening Ahn'Qiraj for a legendary mount of never ever for one guy was not something you'd find in a casual game.

It just kept getting more "streamlined" and "accessible" from there, though. By Wrath, it felt like there was little reason to bother with high-end raiding anymore as there was almost no exclusive content (Algalon), the loot for doing the hard stuff was almost all just recolors or cosmetics (Crusader's White Warhorse, Invincible), and players wouldn't even recognize most of the cosmetics as anything special. It was the same treadmill but with the resistance knob cranked up, and limited ways to shove your dick in everyone else's face.

Being able to force your dick on everyone else is the defining feature of a hardcore game, so I quit and played other games.

>>14728307

You're romanticizing vanilla quite a bit. Raiding in vanilla isn't all that difficult. It's just a trial of how long you can endure "Artificial difficult, The Game" before deciding to do something better with your life, just like any other WoW expansion.

>>14728307

Vanilla was casual as fuck compared to it's predecessors and contemporaries: Ultima Online, Ragnarok Online, Lineage, Lineage 2, etc… You WoW babies were always the casualest fuckers around, don't even pretend you were playing a hard game.

Specifically on raids they were out in the open world, no instancing nonsense. In the early days they required basically the whole server to do and you had to fight off PKers at the same time. Reward wise the upgrades from these were good, but not drastic and in Ragnarok Online niche or even pointless. People didn't expect to get gear or even succeed. They did it for fun, you know, the prime reason for playing games. Not infinitely chasing "muh item levels", by doing the same scripted raid, over and over.

>>14728293

I would guess it would have to do with Wildhamner Dwarves having less of a lore friendly class choice of hunter, shaman, warrior.

>>14728358

>3 new water themed zones come out that are like vash

>but raised to the surface

so close to a good thing. I really enjoyed Vashj'ir back in the day and am so salty that those fucks listened to general forum whingers.

>>14728513

>i hate underwater movement

>but i need muh flying mounts to move around

fucking retards

>>14728321

>Raiding in vanilla isn't all that difficult.

Sorry to hear that you failed to clear classic naxx.

>>14728513

>>14728521

I liked Vashj'ir, its like people who played WoW never played a game with 3d movement before. My first was Spyro.

>>14728548

One raid tier that a tiny fraction of players have experience is hardly representative of the entire expansion. I'm sure it's just as romanticized as well either way.

>>14728561

Watching normalfags try to navigate a 3d space, not even a true one at that, in video games make me think banning cars doesn't sound like too bad of an idea.

>>14728346

>Vanilla was casual as fuck compared to it's predecessors and contemporaries: Ultima Online

Jesus. You're comparing a game with no bosses, no endgame other than what you decide it to be, characters that can be maxed in a day, and the best gear only taking about an hour to afford to one with raids made by a poopsocker that took months of attempts by teams of 40 to clear.

I mean, I get that you're sensitive about continuing to pay to play a super-casualized version of a once great game as it's pretty embarrassing really, but you need to control your insecurity better so you don't just sound like you've lost your fucking mind.

>>14728590

What are champions spawns? what is peerless? what is the harrower? Fucking scrub.

>>14728595

>What are champions spawns?

The game was dead before any of that shit they added to TRAMMEL. Thanks for saying that you played after the game was hyper-casualized.

>>14728601

>after thegame was hyper casualised

lol, no, the game got even harder after that

7x GM became the starting point, builds became more complicated and diverse. what are artifacts, what are power scrolls? what are stat scrolls?

fucking scrub.

>>14728608

>they basically removed PvP except in gimmick modes

>could farm all day long and "take turns" on liches while sucking each other's dicks

>but the game got even harder

dohoho, no, you were the cancer that UO:R let in. All that goofy PvE shit was a desperate attempt to make the game feel threatening again, after they cut off its balls. I know champions weren't even remotely hard as I did them so I assume the other things you're comparing to things like C'THUN are surely a joke as well.

>>14728293

>Alleria, who didn't want to get addicted to arcane/fel magic

>is now addicted to sucking out demon souls or some shit instead

You're mixing up Alleria Windrunner with Vereesa Windrunner. One's a high elf who rejected the mandates from the leaders of High Elven society and ran off to fuck some human guy and kill Orcs. The other is a high elf who rejected the mandates from the leaders of High Elven society and ran off to fuck some human guy and kill Orcs.

No, seriously. Vereesa is just discount Alleria, written into the franchise because Metzen was planning Alleria and Turalyon for two fucking decades and veto'd them returning in Burning Crusade, where it would've actually made sense. But they are technically different characters.

>>14728595

>>14728601

>>14728608

>>14728620

Uhh I don't recall WoW having any of that stuff

>>14728626

responding to some faggot trying to claim ultima online was for casuals

>>14728630

>turning a WoW general into a shitfling discussion about UO in the first place

>>14728625

reminder that the 2nd last boss of nighthold directly called Vereesa a racemixing slut.

>>14728678

That only got by because both Vereesa and her alpha-human mate adhere to white phenotypes and cultural stand-ins.

>>14728625

>>14728678

Also lets not forget that Sylvanas' lover is a human ranger, the only one, so I guess that human-lust must run in the family.

>>14728302

For high elves? Doubtful. The number 1 reason people play blood elf is because they want to be both pretty and horde. I honestly don't see anyone who already plays belf switching to alliance to be helf instead, especially since nelf already exists to more or less fit that same aesthetic.

>>14728302

You know since the story has been so fucked up they should have just made it so the horde gains a human faction and the alliance an orc one. it might have balanced the population a bit and might have added an interesting dynamic to the conflict.

>>14721090

'Mists was good' is a meme perpetuated by Cataclysm babies. If MoP is the standard that modern WoW is held to, then it's fucked.

>>14721105

This really started in Wotlk. Every object looks so sleek and playful, especially in places where things used to look grungy and slightly realistic. It looks like a game made of animu fisher price toys.

>>14727762

My only hope for Battle for Azeroth is that Jaina kills him as revenge for Theramore and tricking her into being a Horde groupie niggerlover. Then Alliance will be able to cheer that they did something cool for once and Horde will Thrall will never fuck up the story again.

In Vanilla, raids were inaccessible to the point that most players never ran them. Leveling zones, PVP and lower-tier dungeons were enough to satisfy subscribers, because the fun was defined by the other players who you met. Now, the game is so full of training wheels that it's not even necessary to ever team up with another player in the world. The community has gone to shit and people automatically act guarded, because there's no incentive for people to do anything together. The bulk of the old game is now a shallow pipeline to raiding and chinese esports shit. People are so unsatisfied with the game they're given, because the actual fun died years ago. Blizzard thinks they can make up for this by constantly spoon feeding new content, which leads to a continuous spiral of making everything that came before obsolete and neglected. I wouldn't even still be sperging about this if I didn't think that they could still fix it, but I'm losing hope.

>>14720233

>PvP server

>Opt out of PvP

The fuck? Why even fucking have PvP servers at that point if the carebears aren't going to stick to carebear servers?

>>14729190

>This really started in Wotlk.

I would say it really started in TBC, but it just got too unbearable for me in wrath specifically. For fucks sake who actually finds KJ's model threatening in any way?

>>14729190

The fact is though is that blizz has killed off lots of horde characters that didn't need to be and could've been expanded upon. They really need to get off their asses and either bring back some of them and make them really relevant like Rexxar who barely ever sees any action at all and more orc characters too.

>>14729303

Thunder Isle was the last time WoW was good. Anyone who says it was bad never played it.

>>14729312

SoO gets a lot of shit because it was the only raid they had for an entire year but it was still fun never the less. I loved fighting in orgrimmar and freeing the captured store owners and fighting bosses such as galakras, the scorpion tank, Nazgrim(tho still pissed they killed him off was one of my favorite side characters), and the immersius fight was rather interesting too.

Also loved the Lei Shen fight and the troll leader one for ToT. Durumu was just annoying to fight tbh. The magaera fight I think is also underrated imo because I always liked the idea of fighting serpent heads

I played wow's latest expac for a week and 3/4 of my old abilities were gone and I quit pretty fast, the game is fucking done for anyone that isn't completely retarded

>you were away for too long not. Please log in and you will get 7 days to play for free

>*click*

>whoops, sorry but this gave is now only compatible with 64-bit OS

At least there's something good for me.

>>14729594

Woah there, MoP was the last good expansion but second best is pushing it too much

>putting Legion better than anything but WoD

Wrath > BC > Mists >Vanilla > Cata > Legion>>>> WoD

>>14729534

I sincerely doubt even 5% of the people who claim to have ever cared about the game in the last 10 years actually played before 2.1.

>>14729866

>that pic

I hope Jaina gases the horde, and achieves her goal by whispering sweet nothings to Anduin's ear, and this time she will make the king listen, by any means necessary.

>>14728307

>WoW certainly wasn't a casual game designed by casuals in classic.

WoW was the most casual MMORPG on the market when it came out and it just got easier over time.

You have no fucking idea what "hardcore" is if you haven't played the other big MMORPGs of that time.

>>14730097

There's casualization then there's practicality.

>>14727818

There's a vendor trash Jaina Photograph item, whose item description originally was something along the lines of "Taken before she went crazy", and was changed to something along the lines of "Taken during happier days" because some people were getting butthurt over it.

I also forgot to bring up them changing one of the Love is in the Air punching bag toys from Ex-boyfriend dummy to some love fool-related name because people were getting buttmad because muh domestic violence.

>>14727966

Pretty much. Unfortunately, the people that did complain were the ones that have Blizzard's ear, most notably Wowhead's EIC.

>>14727971

I'd contend that the year of Dragon Soul and year of Hellfire Citadel were both worse, but that's just me.

>>14729594

That's basically the same tiering for expansions that I have, barring MAYBE swapping Wrath and Mists. WoW and its expansions line up with Pokemon gens surprisingly well.

>>14721151

well ganking is TOXIC! didn't you knew? you wanna get banned?

>>14732680

You are just too late.

The first years were THE years.

>>14732680

go play a vanilla private server

see what it was like when it was actually good

>>14733520

>it was actually good

Lol.

>>14729190

I started in BC. MoP was legit. You're not wrong though, it's like comparing solid vs runny shit.

just let sargeras/void lords/whatever put azeroth out of it's misery.

>>14730372

>more furfag races

Jesus…

>>14724135

> they will ban people without reports or warning by watching fucking JewTube videos for toxic people just to ban them

What?

>>14724135

How the fuck can vidya companies economically afford all these politicized shit and censorship in the name of Political Correctness?

Are the fags, hags, crippledicks and normalfag casuals they are going to attract more eager to spend money than the ammount of cis-males tired of this shit?

>>14721090

>whatever this mess is.

Trannyhands aside this looks pretty sexy.

>>14732680

>realize the only thing good about it is the art and lore

Those are by far the two worst parts of Warcraft.

>>14732680

What did you expect? Just curious.

>>14729026

> they should have just made it so the horde gains a human faction and the alliance an orc one

>further romanticizing race-treason

The poz was already more than enough with the Darkspears cucking their entire fucking superspecies in favor of the Horde's multiculti cancer.

>>14733973

>worst parts of Warcraft.

WoW isn't Warcraft.

>>14721899

>eat_shit.jpg

>defends consumption of Blizzard products

self-referential image or legendary lack of self-awareness?

>>14733963

In case you haven't noticed, companies have not needed to rely on the free market for a really long time now. Just make one or two things people actually like, become publicly traded, maybe become buttbuddies with some alphabet agency or Hollywood, I repeat myself but still, and you're set. From that point onward you will have infinite money unless you piss off the Jewish cabal.

>>14734028

So killing (((the bank))) is our only option for non-shitty vidya at this point?

>>14734042

Got to meet those financial deadlines boyo. Big suits at Activision want their dosh and neo-blizzard has to deliver or it's paycuts for the entire department.

>>14734050

Even without deadlines they wouldn't care. The cancer is systemic at this point.

>>14721444

>Hazzikostas

It pains me that I can fully understand the etymology of that name.

>>14734055

Gotta agree. It has been going on for at least 10 years.

>>14730250

This. Only the most autismal of worst gooks could play Lineage in non-pirated x20 rewards&XP servers. DaoC wasn't considerably better and was even worst in terms of customization of character. One personal touch in your character's talent tree and you were instantly unwanted by all guilds.

>>14732434

> because people were getting buttmad because muh domestic violence.

>over ex-BOYfriends

The absolute soytate of modern "male" gamers.

>>14725137

>) Azjol-Nerub? the only zone that would've been really unique in northrend? reduced to a dungeon with a key character made into an easy as fuck boss

My biggest disappointment in WotLK along with reducing Crypt Lords to common non-elite mobs and Nerubians into a lore-irrelevant race.

>>14734042

I have to wonder what other big name MMO is putting out a major content patch or new expansion this time around. It's not FF14 this time around.

>>14734119

Elder Scrolls Online has a Summerset expansion due soon.

Guilty confession: I kinda want the statue that comes with the CE of it

So what's the pitch for this new expansion? What new content are they trying to push?

>>14728565

>normalfags being obsessed with 3DPD roasties and hoes

>constantly mocking us autists for being immersed in the 2D and denouncing the evil that is the 3D meatspace

>can't even navigate in 3D space

True untermensch.

>>14728716

>Windrunner Village/Spire is the southernmost settlement of Quel Thalas after whatever Deathholme used to be

>just a rowboat ride north of Lordaeron's second largest city

>being surprised that the village' bicycles were all lambic gurglers

>>14734144

The mountain-sized sword Sargeras stabbed into Azeroth at the end of the last Legion raid is causing the planet to bleed out. The planet's blood is basically crystallized water from the Well of Eternity. The Horde discovers this shit first and Sylvanas plans to use it to destroy the Alliance. The Alliance discovers that the Horde discovered it. War ensues.

Notable events thus far:

>The Alliance sends the majority of the Night Elven army to Silithus to secure the plot device everyone is after. This leaves the Night Elven capital nearly undefended, so Sylvanas and the Horde set fire to the entire tree.

>The Alliance tries to siege Lordaeron, but Sylvanas blows up the entire city on the verge of defeat to try and decapitate the Alliance in a single stroke. She fails miserably.

>Varok Saurfang defects from the Horde because he hates Sylvanas, but chooses to sit in the Stockades back in Stormwind instead of doing something about it.

>Jaina's back after sitting out the apocalypse because Khadgar said no to barring the Horde from Dalaran

>Everyone in Kul Tiras, including her own mother, hates Jaina because she indirectly committed patricide, so she has to win them over to get them to rejoin the Alliance

>The Alliance attacks the ship of a Zandaliar diplomat (their princess, in fact) out of fear that the Zandalari will join the Horde

>In response, the Zandalari join the Horde

>There's a troll prophet who can see the future

>There's a countess in Kul Tiras who is trying to get Jaina's mother to give her control of the country

>Both of these are villains and will be killed in either a dungeon or a raid

>The Alliance recruits a sect of void-warlocks that were exiled out of Silvermoon for nearly blowing up the Sunwell, the Dark Iron Dwarves who have been trying to destroy Ironforge for hundreds of years, and pale blonde Draenei with golden eyes

>The Horde recruits Tauren with moose horns, the mana junkie Night Elves from Suramar, and the alternate timeline Orcs from alternate timeline Draenor, because that's definitely something everyone wanted to revisit

>>14734144

Old gods and Azshara teasing yet again with some "earth shattering moment" that causes all of the faction leaders to become retarded. It looks like Cataclysm 2.0

>>14734397

>and Sylvanas plans to use it to destroy the Alliance

Please not another goddamn plague. I appreciate that the Forsaken are about the only honestly villainous faction of the horde, but I think we've had enough bioweapons.

>>14734794

It's magic nuclear weapons this time, but the Forsaken still plaguebomb fucking everything as their strategy. They even plaguebomb the Horde army as it's getting pushed back into Lordaeron so Sylvanas can raise their skeletons as shock troopers.

>>14734502

Anon, whenever a big name character in Warcraft takes part in combat, they start pulling off bullshit like turning into gas and melting soldiers into puddles by floating through them, or cutting 30m tall robots in half with a sword.

>>14734832

>a big name character in Warcraft takes part in combat, they start pulling off bullshit

One of many reasons, for which the comic book influence lead to nothing good.

>>14733929

It's at the 2:34 mark, about proactively scanning social media for people to ban.

>>14734116

An AQ style raid for the nerubians would've been enough. I love the spiders and Anub'Arak. I personally hate new Anub'Araks voice. He went from having a badass deep gargly voice to his high-pitch one.

>>14734397

This is basically the what happens, the story is out there. All villains are basically tainted by old gods and minor old gods the titans created etc. The thing that sucks is they kill off all the major characters before they can create new memorable ones. That troll prophet that sees the future is a cool fucking character. Oh wait, he's killable in the first raid tier.

>>14733520

BC was the peak of WoW. Vanilla had too many game elements that had been changed at the last minute but still existed in the game world, like how caster itemization was basically worthless spirit bloated shit that didn't actually increase your spells until you got to Dire Maul and MC, how it was six months into retail before Druids starting working right, the whole cluster fuck of paladins, and the silliness of tanks needing a different set of gear for every dungeon because tanking was entirely designed around resistance stat gear rather than player skill.