/v/ - Video Games

They just had to have their love story. No matter the cost.

>>14640800

She really destroys entire planets of innocents in between saccharine scenes with Raynor. It's bizzare. Whoever wrote this is just a complete idiot.

>>14640800

tl;dr of sarah?

>>14640807

>love story

Raynor tells Kerrigan that he's going to fucking murder her at the end of either SC1 or BW for killing so many of his friends and comrades, why would he have any love for her after what's she done?

There's rumors that Metzen became a reborn Christian, or whatever they call that, to explain his asinine obsession with savior archetypes and redemption plots after Warcraft 3. Not sure if it's true or not though.

>>14640823

>4th pic

[[Inhuman Screaming]]

>>14640823

As much as I disliked Starcraft 2's story, the first pic misrepresents, oversimplifies and shitposts too much of it. I think Wings of Liberty was actually salvageable in terms of story, though it was very much an extreme downgrade from SC1 vanilla.

The main problem is that it basically discounts how good of a character Tychus was, but also makes him look more reasonable than he should be in his one moment of forced weakness.

I'd go into it further and properly summarize WoL's story but I don't have the time right now.

>>14642762

>not having played Starcraft

psychic stealth operative who gets captured by space bugs and turned into a hybrid. She takes over leadership of space bugs and inflicts misery on the universe only for the defacto protagonist to forgive her and attempt to waifu her in the second game after swearing revenge in the first one

>>14642861

>I think Wings of Liberty was actually salvageable in terms of story, though it was very much an extreme downgrade from SC1 vanilla.

No it wasn't salvageable at all. Once you downgrade SC so much, you can get away with any bullshit.

>infested lel

>deinfested lol

>reinfested lul

>super primal infested because old corruption in infestation kek

It's fucking retarded. It should never have been.

>>14642884

I always wanted to play it, I'm going to go steal it.

>>14642964

Its free. If you can stomach having blizzards cancerous bnet 2.0 app you can just download it for free, broodwar too. Multiplayer still works

>>14642886

>reinfested

>super primal infested

That's heart of the swarm, which is completely unsalvageable.

Name a worse Mary Sue than Kerrigan in video game. No mods or fan-made.

>>14643015

Lightning?

>>14643015

Kerrigan isn't a mary sue. Mary sues aren't supposed to be genocidal megalomaniacal villains. Do you know what a Mary Sue is? That's more like the Avatar in Fire Emblem Awakening.

She's just a character who was written by different teams and groups of people at different points in time, and as a result is impossibly inconsistent of a character to the point of being a wreck. Some people wanted her to be a mary sue and other people didn't. She clearly has deep-seated personality issues at the end of the day and is a fucked-up freak overall which is a gaping hole in an implication of her being a mary sue

>>14643035

She's an anti-sue, a complete trainwreck of a person who still somehow has a bunch of people who love her, and still wins despite not deserving it. Just as bad.

>>14643004

>confederacy of man

seeing how the confederacy is literally the old battleflag, old wealth, marital values, this game seems very Current Year tbh.

>>14643090

martial*

>>14640800

not at first. she was a good example of "good guy is now bad guy, what do you do? how do you feel?" in sc1 and brood war. sc2 was just a retarded "lol who cares how many billions died at her hands i love her and now everything is fine" arc that tried to make everyone happy and cheapened the entire experience by an unimaginable degree. kerrigan was actually a good character and story vehicle when she was a tragedy

Kerrigan was a second stage feminist character and made central to the entire plot for those reasons. This change was brought about as early as the Zerg campaign of BW. So she could be the 'badass' bitch. Every other character was just filler. Jim the protagonist? Hardly. You just are meant to associate with Jim on a psychological level, while Kerrigan is elevated to an unquestionable status. It doesn't matter what she does, or who she kills, it is all meant to go together for this purpose. She is a Mary Sue, where doing terrible things is meant to be overlooked because she's a 'badass bitch.'

The story went to shit as soon as it focused on her taking over the Zerg, period.

>>14643140

To varying degrees, yes. It's what will be accepted. For example the craziness of SJWs didn't pop into existence just recently, they just had no standing in the general populace. They were relegated to elites or fringe communities. The whole frog boiling in the water analogy is perfectly appropriate as an explanation.

Similarly, and harder for many faggots here to accept, females fighting at all was pushed over time. Decades ago, it was frowned upon unless a female was in a life or death situation. Now it is frowned upon if she isn't treated like a completely equal 'badass'. I remember growing up with saturday morning cartoons that always had a female character forced in, and always had at least one episode focused around 'I can do it too!' What I remember from back then though was that nobody in my community ever had this notion to force such a thing, and no girl I ever knew acted like that. Even tomboys merely liked to do some boy things, but they weren't trying to be badasses or expecting to fight. Yet even a decade later and it was common for tiny females to be depicted kicking ass. Now, like then, a good deal of anons accept it due to sexiness, which isn't the problem. The problem is that the vast majority of normalfags have been conditioned to not even think much about it, because it is so pervasive.

That's just one example of such things being pushed. It's a generational thing. Which is why we look at the shit now and see it, because we knew a time when it wasn't so shitty.

>inb4 some faggot tries the whole get off my lawn handwave

There is a huge difference between not liking something aesthetic because it is new, and not liking something that changes core values. That is what is really being shaped generationally. Values.

>>14643140

What? There's no SJW propaganda or anything in SC1. The strongest power starting out in the Terran campaign is a confederation and they use the flag for memesake. They end up being pretty dysfunctional when confronted with the Zerg and Protoss and are eventually overthrown to create the Dominion.

It's basically mirroring the fall of the Republican Era of Rome and the rise of the Imperial Era. If anything the Confederacy ends up the good guys but corrupt and not having enough unified power to really deal with the situation.

>>14643218

Wrong, anon. There is very LITTLE propaganda, because it wouldn't have sold back then otherwise. You think it's hard to sell SJW shit now? It was impossible then. Kerrigan being the 'badass bitch' Queen of Blades was propaganda.

Think about this. SC1, main antagonists are the Overmind and Mengsk. Kerrigan is brought by the overmind as some kind of important thing, despite just being a regular fucking ghost. Oh, wait, no, she isn't a regular fucking ghost. She's some kind of super important powerful one, because why? She was central to the plot almost from the beginning. You were just too busy enjoying the rest of SC to notice. It hadn't reached intolerable levels yet.

>>14643245

>Titus

I mean Tychus, fuck.

>>14643060

This is more correct.

>>14643059

Yeah, I can understand that.

>>14643136

>same character

>written at different times

>therefore its okay to call her a mary sue as if it were talking about her the whole time

Nigger if you notice or can read IDs, I'm talking about wings and before that for the most part. That other shit is still relevant to what I said: she was written by different people at different times. You can argue that after she goes primal she becomes a mary sue but that feeds into my point of her being written by different people at different times. If a character becomes a mary sue about 70-75% into their life cycle, does that mean they were a mary sue the whole fucking time? No? Then you can't just call them a mary sue dismissively and pretend that was the case the entire time, you at least have to specify the time period, but you're right.

>>14643272

She only was considered "firmly established" about 2/3rds towards the end of WoL.

The anti-sue term works fine.

>>14643247

>Think about this. SC1, main antagonists are the Overmind and Mengsk. Kerrigan is brought by the overmind as some kind of important thing, despite just being a regular fucking ghost. Oh, wait, no, she isn't a regular fucking ghost. She's some kind of super important powerful one, because why? She was central to the plot almost from the beginning. You were just too busy enjoying the rest of SC to notice. It hadn't reached intolerable levels yet.

lolwut?

If you read the SC1 manual the whole plan of the Overmind was that it saw that the Protoss were psi powerful and it thought it couldn't beat them on its own, but it found humans who were on the brink of becoming a psionically advanced race and figured it should capture some of them and integrate them into the swarm to help it fight the Protoss. This is the reason the Psi-emitter stuff existed in the Terran campaign, it's attracting the Zerg who are looking for psionically powerful humans to assimilate.

There's no evidence that Kerrigan was anything special other than the first Ghost the Overmind captured alive. Other Ghosts got infected and ended up with similar powers. As far as SC1 is concerned Kerrigan and other infected ghosts merely are able to command Zerg on the same level as Cerebrates along with a few powers the Zerg managed to unlock by tinkering with them, such as Psi Storm which only extremely powerful Protoss are normally able to pull off.

>>14643290

She was a mary sue from the start. You just don't want to accept it. Her being taken by the Overmind and turned into his prized high-powered infested terran was part of her sue'ness. It even developed by BW to her owning all Zergs because she was so special and badass.

She was always a mary sue

What of the brilliant colonial magistrate of the first game that you play as who was able to bring down the confederacy and who Mengsk would have been small time pissant rebel without? Forgotten and gone, but the oh so important Kerrigan had a tragic moment where she was 'lost', and then immediately brought back as the most important Zerg next to the Overmind, who was then conveniently killed.

All the other characters, whether player only nameless ones, or named ones like Raynor, were never treated with the importance that Kerrigan got. How can you pretend it just popped out of nowhere? Look, I love most of SC1 and BW (the gameplay I love.) The story though had problems entirely starting with Kerrigan's infestation.

>>14643331

>There's no evidence that Kerrigan was anything special other than the first Ghost the Overmind captured alive.

Pretty fucking convenient.

>>14643347

Yes, its convenient that the player is present to witness stuff that is important to the campaign story. It's also convenient that Bilbo gets the One Ring, must be SJWs.

>>14643346

>functions as completely different characters

You can't just put this out as if WoL doesn't use the foundation of BW and SC1 for their whole fucking story?

> all of it is completely inconsequential on a character psychology level, the only level relevant to a good history

The fuck is this coming from?

>After WoL she is a brand new character with completely different motivations, even if compared to Sarah pre-QoB.

Yes, that's true because of the events that had transpired as she was QoB. Anyone with common sense can see that.

>Just because they are the same person cannonically doesn`t mean they are on a meta level.

Well no fucking shit, but you basically separating them into two, maybe 3 categories for the sake of calling one a mary sue, specifically after one of three games is completed is practically fucking semantics

>Why you spouting shit about being written in different eras by different people?

because that's relevant to the character? QoB vs post-purification kerrigan suddenly ignores everything that had happened in SC1 and BW? It doesn't do that at all because that's literally the foundation for her character, they just chose to take it in a shitty fucking direction was the problem.

>>14643367

>Behold that I shall set you amongst the greatest of my Cerebrates, that you might benefit from their wisdom and experience. Yet your purpose is unique. While they carry forth my will to the innumerable Broods, you have but one charge entrusted to your care.

>For I have found a creature that may yet become the greatest of my agents. Even now it resides within a protective Chrysalis, awaiting its rebirth into the Swarm.

>greatest of my agents

>hurrdurr it's just some ghost he managed to get

>she wasn't a mary sue

KYS, you retarded nigger

>>14643382

Are you complaining that the Overmind is absorbing new races into the swarm because they are powerful and help the swarm kill things, or because the specific Ghost they chose was Kerrigan?

If its the later would it make you more happy if the Ghost that was captured was instead named Generic Ghost mcGhostyface?

>>14643382

>>14643341

Nigger learn the difference between a powerful character, and a mary sue

>All the other characters, whether player only nameless ones, or named ones like Raynor, were never treated with the importance that Kerrigan got.

Well no shit, she was basically the main villain of the second game after the overmind was killed?

The terran BW campaign was pretty much contrived, yes.

>What of the brilliant colonial magistrate of the first game that you play as who was able to bring down the confederacy and who Mengsk would have been small time pissant rebel without? Forgotten and gone

Yes, that did piss me off. One of the things I disliked about Brood War; that's kind of irrelevant though when you're playing as an entirely unrelated faction, and inserting an element that was formerly controlled into an established story would be difficult.

The UED as a faction was probably more mary-sue ish than Kerrigan as a character in BW though.

>force with little history that basically nobody knows anything about

>but everything about them is OP and they basically dominate the sector and its most powerful commanders and people, including Kerrigan in seconds

wew

>>14643399

Are you pretending to be retarded? Not only was she oh so important to the Overmind, conveniently, but when the Overmind died, she took over the entire swarm. In SC2? No, in fucking Brood War.

Keep doing mental gymnastics though, your brain apparently needs the exercise.

Aldaris did nothing wrong.

>>14643404

formerly player-controlled*

>>14643405

>when the Overmind died, she took over the entire swarm.

That was part of the campaign. That's something you have to help accomplish as the player. It didn't just happen on its own.

>>14643347

It's plot, of course it's going to be convenient. Tbh the problem with kerrigan in sc1 was more that the whole thing just went nowhere and the overmind just invaded the protoss without any of the psychich crap that was the entire point of invading the terrans in the first place. 80000 metric tons of AHDH.

>>14643405

>Not only was she oh so important to the Overmind

Yes, the new strain the overmind absorbed that it intended to use to defeat the ultimate enemy of the Zerg was important to it.

>when the Overmind died, she took over the entire swarm

No she didn't you dumbfuck. The Cerebrates took over almost everything ontop of merging to create a new overmind. The only reason Kerrigan won in the end was because the Terran and Protoss killed everyone in her way.

>>14643443

If the only way a character makes sense to you is if you treat her as two seperate characters, it might not be worth defending that character anymore.

>>14643443

I feel like this is going in circles.

Yes, you're right about her being a mary sue post-WoL. Are you happy? I never did not call her a mary sue except for portions WoL and before; I conceded she was one for that period of time.

You're right about that.

>all intents and purposes they are a separate being from an analysis perspective.

this would be the part I'd arguably have problems with because they're so connected; post-WoL Kerrigan hated herself constantly for the actions she'd done as QoB in BW and SC1, she hated Mengsk because she basically blamed him for everything, and lubbed Jim because he saved her. These are all undeniable to anyone who has played the campaign, and they are reliant on what is previously established in the previous games,which makes it harder to just "cut up" a character however you choose for analysis purposes, but I digress.

>>14643404

>main villain

That's why you team up with her, right? No, the 'main villain' was the UED. Kerrigan was a villain, yes, but she was never fought and defeated.

Let's tally up her Mary Sue points, shall we?

Kerrigan was important to Raynor and the player (1), and was tragically lost in a mission (1), but then lol not really because she was important to the Overmind (1), then she was more powerful and important than the cerebrates (1), then she took over the brood (1), then she was the main threat to everyone (1), then she went on to SC2 shenanigans. At what point wasn't she the most important character in the series? Oh, right, before she was lost to the Zerg.

She's a Mary Sue, who's only downside is being infested which gives her the convenient out for all the bad shit she does. She's special in everything else. Apparently the best Ghost, important enough for the Overmind to set one of his most important cerebrates over watching her hatch, powerful enough to control the Zerg herself (wonder why the Overmind would want that, kinda a threat to it, hmm?), some kind of tactical genius who's better at running the Zerg than either Overmind ever were, and it goes on from there.

The only time she wasn't a Mary Sue, was when she was a underling of Mengsk, but even then she was pulling off sassy lines against Raynor, and became the main reason for the final confrontation of the terran campaign in SC1. She was the main important character of the brood campaign. Then she was one of the main antagonists of the Protoss campaign. Then by Brood War, she was manipulating all sides until she became the main threat in the entire sector.

They might as well have called it KerriganCraft she was so central to the entire fucking plot.

>>14643469

>I have two separate characters: Nicest girl you'll ever meet and twisted fucking psychopath

>>14643461

What the fuck are you talking about?

>>14643460

>No she didn't you dumbfuck. The Cerebrates took over almost everything ontop of merging to create a new overmind. The only reason Kerrigan won in the end was because the Terran and Protoss killed everyone in her way.

Wrong, you lying faggot, she had a brood directly under her control while there was a new Overmind. She then manipulated all the other characters until she had eliminated everyone in her way. You conveniently forget that she tricked everyone and became the dominate force by the end of BW, and you conveniently twist my truncation of the events because you have no argument.

Why are you even defending Kerrigan at all? Look how important she is. You can't even enjoy SC or BW without Kerrigan being some precious part of it. She was shit.

>>14640823

Missing from these images is the most idiotic thing SC2 lore did: retconning Tassadar to become a Xel'Naga. If he was a Xel'Naga he wouldn't have needed to learn how to channel Dark Templar energies from Zeratul to kill the Overmind. He would have known how to kill it since his race created the Overmind and sped zergs' evolution, he would even be able to reprogram its prime directive to merge with the Protoss to create the new generation of Xel'Naga.

But I have to agree, retconning Zerus to create the primal Zerg was also stupid. The Overmind, as stated in the manual from the first game consumed everything on the planet, consumed the Xel'Naga hovering above the planet and a race of aliens that can fly in space in order to enable space travel to his race. If you want to go even further than that: the manual also says that the only "real" Zerg was the larva found on the planet, everything else was assimilated into the swarm, so the concept of a primal Zerg free from the swarm is impossible.

>>14643473

>that's why you team up with her

She was the one who killed and betrayed everyone. She was the one who tricked everyone into being on her side while the UED basically established order out of chaos by seizing power quickly and efficiently and basically suppressing everything. She used that shit to her advantage. I guess you can argue the UED is the main villain because of their actions taken, but in terms of people-groups affected by the end you know who the main villain actually was.

> then she was more powerful and important than the cerebrates

Yes, there's fair enough reason for that. Not the best reasoning, but she was a talent ghost (who all have their psionic potentials tapped) and one of the best assassins around for the confederacy.

>she took over the brood

After the overmind had died, yes.

>she was the main threat to everyone

Only secretly. The UED was the surface threat, she was the main one.

A mary sue is not a fucking villain though, a mary sue is intended to be a perfect, idealized character, sometimes a self-inserted one. She's evil beyond belief. You're just basically saying she's overpowered and doesn't deserve it because power is the only metric you're using to count something as a mary sue. The rest you're trying to attribute, but overpowered characters and bad (subjective) writing don't automatically make a mary sue. You can argue she's a poorly written character, but you're just flat out using terms incorrectly here.

>why would the overmind want to have an exceptionally powerful second in command

gee I dunno, maybe the overmind saw a valuable resource and wanted to use it?

>but even then she was pulling off sassy lines against Raynor, and became the main reason for the final confrontation of the terran campaign in SC1.

How the fuck does sassy lines against Raynor have to do with anything? They were flirting you dumb fuck? And no shit, conflict tends to happen when people get betrayed, yeah. Who'd have guessed it? You were with Raynor from the beginning, no shit you'd be with him in the end of it after Mengsk betrays you, and not only that but more importantly mengsk reveals his true intent to rule the sector. Are you just forgetting mengsk in all of this?

>main antagonist of the protoss campaign

No? That was the overmind, and to a lesser extent the enclave.

She was an important character to the brood campaign but the most important character was the overmind who was telling you what to do, explaining everything and all that shit. You only spend like half the zerg campaign with kerrigan afaik and even for the last few missions iirc you conquer aiur and seize the crystals without her while she fucks around with Tassadar and Zeratul.

>>14643535

Tassadar wasn't a xelnaga. That was an image of tassadar projected by a xelnaga as tassadar's ghost (yeah its shit) to give Zeratul the prophecy because he was basically the most important being to him.

He was always a protoss.

>>14643486

Since you didn't so much as touch Brood War, let me explain

>original SC story happens, caps off with the overmind getting killed by terrans and their brotoss

>BW begins, zerg are now fragmented and shit

>Infested Kerrigan notices this, decides to take over as new overmind because all the other cerebrates don't have the ambition to do so, leading to the titular Brood War

>eventually end up with all the hives/cerebrates united under Kerrigan, who is now the antagonist of the entire expansion

I can't remember if the PC of that campaign is still a cerebrate except under Kerrigan instead of the Overmind, but there was still a climb up from "favored of the Overmind" to "overarching antagonist of the setting until WoL campaign"

>>14643537

Yeah, post WoL she was a mary sue; nobody's arguing that whatsoever

>>14643536

conclave*

>>14643563

he's a retard but don't shit up the thread please

>>14643536

I liked the UED. However narratively, they were the villain, and who you play against in the final campaign.

>Yes, there's fair enough reason for that. Not the best reasoning, but she was a talent ghost (who all have their psionic potentials tapped) and one of the best assassins around for the confederacy.

You know most Mary Sue's have backstory for why they are oh so special. This isn't a defense of her not being a Mary Sue.

>After the overmind had died, yes.

Never said the writing was entirely shit, anon.

>Only secretly.

Only as the final fucking conclusion of the game.

>A mary sue is not a fucking villain though

It was always hinted that she would be redeemed, ever since the "Raynor, you're my only hope" teaser shit. She was a villain in name only, so she could be the most badass, while still maintaining a semblance of a plot in a STRATEGY GAME.

>gee I dunno, maybe the overmind saw a valuable resource and wanted to use it?

Convenient it was her, and convenient the overmind was killed in the same game. Almost like the writing was done all together instead of piece by piece like in your mind.

<all this reaching

>gotta defend kerrigan, she's so important, i-i mean no, she's just another regular character teehee

Fucking, sad.

>>14643541

>if I meme you not playing BW, then you didn't

Here's your (you)

>>14643448

>Confederacy

Chosen to evoke an image of freedom-loving rednecks, nothing more. In case you didn't notice this is presented as a good thing in SC1.

>martial values

What?

>general nazi authoritarianism

The opposite you idiot. The confederacy has very little power. If anything they are closer to a meme Ancap state where everyone has nukes.

>white dudes everywhere

>implying this is a bad thing

Hell, damn near everyone in SC1 is white. I think there's Samir Duran, who is black and turns out to be a double agent for Kerrigan that dooms the UED to failure.

>super dooper evil trainers who do super dooper evil experimentation things

What? The Ghost experiments? Yes, the various Terran forces in starcraft are experimenting because some people are developing fucking psionic abilities. If anyone IRL demonstrated psionic ability they'd be snatched up immediately by the CIA or something, which is how you know that anyone claiming to be so on TV is faking.

>>14643576

>nuh uhhhhh dood nuh uhhhhhh it's like the exact opposite doood nuh uhhhhhh

>"the CIA"

I think the real reason why Gamergate died is because it was populated by people who are simply uneducated and didn't learn how to think consistently. That goes to show how truly bad the sjw menace really was, that even mouth-breathing retards like you began to notice.

>>14643505

Is your whole argument

>a woman was successful at manipulating people

therefore Mary Sue?

>>14643583

If you can't understand all the shit I laid out, or are in denial too much, I can't help you. Believe what you want, I'm not wasting any more of my free time arguing with you faggots. Your disingenuous shitposting isn't worth my time tonight.

>>14643594

>gets mad, downvotes the thread

>"oh, no it's really not that"

it's been that way since 4chan, newfag

epic meme btw

>>14643572

>She was a villain in name only, so she could be the most badass, while still maintaining a semblance of a plot in a STRATEGY GAME.

>in name only

>in name only

Are you fucking kidding me?

Are you just ignoring that she was killing off cherished characters left and right?

I still hate her ass for killing off Fenix. She also killed Duke, too. That's not even including the countless civilians and planets. She was a villain hands down, fuck off.

>Convenient it was her, and convenient the overmind was killed in the same game.

Oh no shit? Its better to try and keep more characters involved than to bring in new ones willy nilly? A more interconnected story is better in my eyes than adding in new elements as they choose.

>Almost like the writing was done all together instead of piece by piece like in your mind.

Yes, I'm sure they just wrote the story in one sitting anon.

>Only as the final fucking conclusion of the game.

Yes, but all that time they were suspicious of her and for good reason. Her intent was to deceive; its kind of pointless to not wait for the best opportunity to strike and instead reveal your cards early like some shitty villain would.

<all this reaching

>gotta defend kerrigan, she's so important, i-i mean no, she's just another regular character teehee

O-oh no someone's actually arguing with me? Why aren't you just accepting my opinion as fact, shitlord?

Kill yourself.

Also

>It was always hinted that she would be redeemed, ever since the "Raynor, you're my only hope" teaser shit.

So, WoL?

Is that "always"? You were talking about SC1 this whole time, and now you're bringing up SC2?

keep your arguments consistent faggot

>>14643576

Mengsk looked kinda brown in his portrait

SCVs looked black inb4 they were slaves

>>14643409

Nice! Paul Eiding is Aldaris He's also Deckard Cain and that Vault-Tec guy

>>14640800

RTS is a shit genre anyways.

>>14643297

Daily reminder that Teagan was the villain for not wanting everyone to die :^)

>>14640800

>>14643269

>>14643610

>sc

The only good Starcraft is the Original Game written by James Phinney, eveything slowly went down under after he left (Yes, even brood war is shit because he's not part of the team anymore)

>>14643967

>RTS

>shit

says the dumbass brainlet

>>14642772

Because they fucking rewrote him for the worst.

Wings of Liberty should've fucking ended with Raynor and Tychus blowing her fucking brains out.

>>14643866

>>14644505 < What this anon said.

Paul Eiding was in Diablo 2 I know though, he narrated certain things. Like the quest book for The Countess in the first act.

>>14644520

Tychus was a bro, really liked his character the most.

>>14644540

Blizzard North really like this guy's voice.

>>14643566

> dislike anime

lol faggot

Say what you will about Metzen, but his singing voice is great when he's not voice acting Green Jesus. Wings of Liberty would have been great if you didn't play as Jim Raynor, just do it like SC1 where you play as rebel then it keeps escalating towards Universal Destruction, and fuck the Xel'naga-Amon story hook.

>>14644540

He did Mephisto as well.

I've always wanted to play SC but the command and conquer games scratched the RTS itch I had while growing up. That and Blizzrd being complete cunts for the better part of a decade if not longer.

Will there be a SC3 do any of you think or was the story wrapped up in 2? Not that that should matter as game companies will always find a way to push out a sequel if they see a large enough profit. Or do you anons think perhaps Blizzard are too busy with Overwatch and monitoring their players social media accounts?

>>14644673

>the only thing that Mengsk did wrong was genocide an entire planet full of innocent people for control of the sector along with killing one of his most loyal subordinates and friend of one of his soldiers

Are you a griffithfag too? Feel free to kill yourself any time

>Took a ton of work to unite the entire Terran race into one cohesive force capable of fighting both Protoss and Zerg, and Raynor decides to wreck it because he's a faggot.

my god it feels like I'm looking at Mengsk himself post angrily about getting destroyed

>>14644707

Story was wrapped up in 2.

Either way Blizzard ruined SC2 and everyone already left. They're just milking whoever is left for all they're worth with heavy amounts of microtransactions in what used to be fully priced games that costed 140 total w/o tax

They're way too desperate to cling and get money where they can already as you can see with SC: remastered

Blizzard hates admitting that they're wrong and that their old shit was better than their new shit; its why you're seeing all these desperate things in their IPs like vanilla servers and that one WoW expansion where they brought back Illidan, or in Starcraft's case remastering a 20 year old game pretty much pointlessly because they wanted a chunk of the korean esports money

>>14644717

or rather, you're seeing it because they're desperate despite knowing the fan demand for shit like their old content has been going on for the better part of half a decade or longer

>>14644717

Meh. I largely stopped caring about the series once I found WH40K, so I don't remember that much about it. Still though, trading one planet of people verses the entire race getting eaten by zerg/protoss seems like an easy trade.

>>14644727

Nigger the confederacy had an extreme amount of control and power over the zerg with their technology; the only reason he did that was that so he could have control; he stole their technology, wiped them out and seized it. There was no real threat to humanity at least with those weapons, that was just his excuse so he could have power without being challenged because he's "the defender of humanity"

This is like saying that "Germany being flooded by rapefugees was worthy price to pay if Soros protects us from the rest of them". He was the one who sent them to begin with.

>>14644739

True, I'm remembering the campaign better now. Been a long, long time. Then yeah, confederacy forever, Mengsk should have hung too. I think I'll have to replay SC1 so I remember all this more. Deuce, that means Mengsk, Kerrigan, and Raynor should all have died early on, then Stukov would have lived. I remember liking Stukov so much that I named my first WoW character after him back when I was 14 or so, an orc warlock. Fun times.

>>14644739

All the expanded media I pirated for years, the Confederacy was waning with too much corruption and incompetency, and a lot of backstabbing traitors who jumped ship to Mengsk's side when it was clear he was gonna replace the Confederacy, they had a lot of uber weapons against the Zerg, but incompetent and corrupt military leadership and Mengsk taking advantage on their weakness meant they were killing themselves with inaction, then boom, Mengsk feeds Tarsonis and Kerrigan to the Zerg without him caring about the repercussions, because fear against the ayy lmaos was gonna get all desperate terran factions to his side.

The original SC was produced and written by SC's lead programmer, James Phinney.

Phinney left Blizzard sometime before Brood War, so the story was left in the incapable hands of Metzen.

Broodwar is where Metzen started fucking up the story, not SC2

Case in point :

- SC ends with an epilogue saying Kerrigan's ascension is at hand, and BW ends with Kerrigan's ascension.

- The Overmind was created by the scientifically advanced Xel'Naga, but somehow random Cerebrates can fuse together to become a new Overmind?

- McGuffins appear and disappear at will, without leaving any lasting influence behind : Xel'Naga Temple, Uraj & Khalis crystals, Psi Disruptor, new Overmind.

- Even the UED came and left without leaving any lasting influence. They were not even touched upon in SC2.

- Zerg somehow became more powerful and unified after the Overmind was slain

- To Metzen, a chaotic disunited Zerg is somehow more powerful than a well-coordinated unified Swarm

- The death of one Cerebrate caused his brood to run rampant and endanger the entire Swarm, and had to be put down; but the Overmind's + 2 Cerebrates' deaths doesn't trigger this. Why?

- McGuffin related plot holes :

- The Xel'Naga Temple somehow had the ability to destroy Zerg, even though it was built aeons before the Xel'Naga made the Zerg

- The Confederacy had the Psi Disruptor operational on Tarsonis, but didn't bother to use them when their planet was invaded en masse by the Zerg

- The UED somehow knew how to pacify the Overmind, magically.

- Other illogical plot holes :

- The UED somehow knew the existence of the Overmind, even though only the Protoss and Jim Raynor were the only ones aware of it at the time.

- The UED somehow knew the secret location of Aiur, even though the Protoss, Jim Raynor and the Overmind were the only ones aware of it at the time.

- The UED with their limited resources and stolen tech managed to destroy the Dominion at its prime, somehow.

- Kerrigan's manipulations made no sense, considering :

- She was on Char when the Overmind died, but she somehow mind controlled Raszagal who was on Shakuras. How and when?

- The Protoss fear infestation, as Tassadar himself stated in the final mission; but in BW they readily agree to side with Kerrigan (who might infest them) against the UED (who might exterminate them).

- Everyone become idiots just to make Kerrigan look smart.

>>14644757

Stukov was a pretty cool dude. Its hard to find someone who doesn't like him. Its a shame Duran was a fucking snake. I gotta wonder what was going through Dugalle's head once he realized what happened. Poor bastard.

My personal favorite character was Fenix; I named my runescape account after him when I was a kid.

>>14644766

I can believe it; I never bothered to read the media shit. I remember some ad for some warcraft media in 2 and it looked baller but now I don't think I'd have the patience or willingness to look through blizzard's old shit without feeling bad about how depressingly far they've fallen.

>>14644796

Phinney really deserved more credit for all his work. I hope he's doing well wherever he is.

>>14644815

He's at Undead Labs right now working on State of Decay 2.

I wish he'd work more on the story side of things, since the original SC and Sacrifice have very well-written stories and great characters.

>>14644796

Your final sentence sums up why Kerrigan is a fucking Mary Sue. It doesn't matter if she was a villain at a point in time or if she was an inconsequential bum pseudo-witch when she was first introduced; if you examine her whole character arc throughout the entire series' lore yes, that includes her time as Queen of Blades you'll recognize that she was basically the SC universe's dindu nuffin stronk womyn ain't need no mang all along. In fact her rise from a shitty oper8or only reinforces that fact.

>>14644799

The one problem Blizzard has that is the same with Star Wars EU and George Lucas is, that some of the best stuff is written by different writers that are not of their own, it's pretty sad that they haven't improved in the writing department and a lot of their best writers just left the company.

Now on the Starcraft books, lots of great stuff like Liberty's Crusade where Michael Liberty (One of many of Metzen's self-inserts) describe the mass media control of the Confederacy when they were losing battles everywhere and how Mengsk used it against them, or the Nova novel where the Old Families of the Confederacy are degenerates, even legalized cuckoldry/cheating with both spouses having a gigolo or mistress because they never marry out of love and just do some intro-fertilization to make babies. overall lots of great world building went to shit because Blizzard are a bunch of retards.

>>14644821

Some Guild Wars 1 devs (former blizzard) worked for State of Decay 1, not sure about 2. All the good Blizzard staff left after Brood Wars and Warcraft 3.

She was already a shitty character made for retarded soyboys that worship nuwomen since the very first Starcraft.

>>14644838

And Burning Crusade, everything really went to shit hard when the Dungeon Master (Blizzard) just asks you to do the same old shit for purple colored named gear.

>>14644829

I actually enjoyed Kerrigan's character when James Phinney wrote it, but Metzen always finds a way to ruin everything.

Here's a rundown in case you didn't know :

- Kerrigan was a child who was conscripted in the Confederate Ghost program after she accidentally killed her parents .

- Her time in the Ghost program retarded her mental growth, which causes her to be child-like and naive even after becoming an adult.

- Mengsk rescued her from the Ghost program, to which she was indebted to. She even starts to see Mengsk as a father figure, which explains her loyalty.

- After her rebirth into the Swarm as Infested Kerrigan, she grows up from being a little girl to a rebellious teenager.

- She's the only Zerg who refers to the Overmind as father; unlike the Cerebrates who see their relationship to the Overmind as a master-servant one; proof that a fragment of her previous self is still present.

- She abandons her previous timid behavior for a more proud and independent attitude, in response to Mengsk's betrayal. Since she can't trust anyone, she seeks to be self-sufficient.

- Her proud and rebellious attitude is brought into light when she confronts Tassadar.

- She constantly tries to inflate her pride and ego, even calling herself the Queen of the Zerg and demands Tassadar to show respect.

- Tassadar taught her a powerful lesson that shattered her pride, and she only realized this after Daggoth announced that Zasz was permanently killed.

- She actually learnt her lesson and tried to be more competent and keeps her pride in check during the next mission, where she hunts down the Dark Templar.

- And that is the end of her story in the original SC. I wish Phinney would've continued her story instead of Metzen.

FUCK METZEN FOR RUINING STARCRAFT

>>14644842

No, she wasn't, for reasons stated above.

>>14644878

Metzen suggested improvements to Diablo's initial lore, then he completely rapes it with Diablo 3 after Blizzard North dissolves.

>>14644884

This is why you can't trust "writers" to do their job, because most if not all are just a bunch of hipsters who don't even know jack shit about writing and narrative cohesion.

The old Blizzard Games were written mainly by those who have no background in writing at all; case in point being James Phinney who was SC's lead programmer at the time.

>>14644889

No kidding? That warms my heart, I'm glad the programmer got to take a crack at writing the story, since craftsmen in general would be more grounded than """writers,""" and not so ideologically driven, for lack of a better phrase. I've always thought codefaggots should take a shot at writing the story and then coding it down themselves, they could probably make some really good stuff.

>>14640800

Female protagonists need to be banned.

>>14644893

I miss the 80s and 90s where amateur developers were making games with stories they came up with, now we got soyboy and dykeshit failed TV writers going to work on games, like Hamburger Hepler in Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

>>14644884

Metzen was the one responsible for removing every religious symbolism in Blizzard games.

I was never that deep into the Diablo series, but I remember that there were many Christian influences in Diablo I and II. Diablo III is just cartoonish.

SC was also heavy with Christian influence (and ancient Rome), mainly the Protoss; with their units being named Dragoons, Templars and Archons.

Tassadar was actually the second coming of Jesus for the Protoss, the first being Khas. He even died in a heroic sacrifice for his people while spreading his arms as if he was crucified.

>>14644893

It's probably the bugfixing part of their job.

They're so used to going over their codes with a fine-toothed comb for bugs that it becomes easy for them to spot plot holes early on and rectify them.

Writers, especially modern day ones do not have this training, and therefore they're prone to retcon shit a lot. Case in point : Metzen.

>>14644924

Metzen gave suggestions and art for Diablo, And Blizzard North handled and presented the dark themes and atmosphere of Diablo 1 and 2, and when you look at Nu-Blizzard and Metzen's pathetic storytelling and zero subtlety on Diablo 3, it's pretty sad.

>>14644924

>Tassadar was a jesus figure

Holy fucking shit.

This never fucking crossed my mind; the writing must be more subtle and of its own rather than just being a hamfisted reference than I fucking realized.

The fucking scene where he turns himself in after you break into the heart of the conclave because he couldn't stand the slaughter of his brethren can be tied to Jesus in the garden when his disciples (or was it just Peter) starts fighting back and he tells him to stop and allows himself to be bound by the soldiers.

Goddamn the game must have even more meaning than I thought. Guess I'll have to look into this shit further.

>>14644953

>Blizzard North

>Diablo 1 and 2

You mean Blizzard South?

>>14644999

And Aldaris and the conclave can be likened to the Pharisees in terms of their actions and attitudes, especially regarding traditions and what is considered sacred over what is considered practical.

Not only this but Tassadar's interactions with the Dark Templar can be likened to Jesus's interactions with the unclean.

I don't want to be one of those faggots with "muh references" and "muh symbolism" but this shit is fascinating, Starcraft's story has more than enough differences rather than just relying on the same kind of structure, characterization and whatnot from biblical texts.

>>14644999

You do know the backstory of Blizzard North right? Blizzard North or Condor as they known met up with Blizzard for funding to make a claymation game called Diablo, Blizzard told them to change some stuff, got Metzen to ideas guy for them for a while, and presto we got Diablo 1 then 2, it went all to hell by 2004 when there was a disagreement on creative control by both parties, hence how we got Torchlight and Hellgate London.

>>14644918

>>14644924

Darn it all if you aren't both right. I've always had a soft spot for reading and writing, but I wasn't going to roll the dice on feeding my kids over my own relative skills at it. I need to start learning coding so I can combine the two, and spit something out that I'm going to have a blast making.

>>14645026

Shoot I must be confusing them. I know what you're referring to, I'm just being a dumbass. I remember Brevik referring to Blizzard's main studio as blizzard south so much in a video I watched that I confused Blizzard north with south.

Check out vid-related, its good shit and gives a lot of information about Diablo's making

>>14645037

Blizzard Irvine or Commiefornia Blizzard as I like to refer to them, they mastered hype and addictive game design, pretty much like Valve did with Counter-Strike and Dota.

>>14644999

>>14645018

Here's the story analysis of the original Starcraft; if you're interested in reading.

http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?7280-StarCraft-Campaign-Thoughts-and-Impressions&s=a5812d984c1431618f8b7aef85a8d608

>>14645029

Good luck with that endeavor, anon.

>>14642886

Allowing *deinfested* already means that infestation is not a big deal and can be salvaged.At that point the whole idea of infestation is threated like a magical event, not an unrecoverably biological one.

Wings of liberty just started the bullshit and paved the way for Heart of the Swarm. It is equally at fault.

>>14645170

Indeed, WoL also doesn't register BW as a prequel.

The Dominion was destroyed twice in BW, once by the UED and a second time by Kerrigan. Yet somehow the Dominion still manages to become the most powerful Terran superpower in WoL.

Whatever happened to Umoja and Kel-Morian Combine? Why didn't they step in during the power vacuum? Fucking Metzen can't write for shit.

>>14643331

The zerg were completely incapable of being psionic unlike their enemies, the protoss. And since humans were becoming psionic, IE the ghost program and Kerrigan, they needed Kerrigan or a powerful ghost to assimilate them for the zerg to have psionic powers. Then they ditched this narrative and just made the fucking love story and a mirror of WOW's story for shekels. sage for a shit thread.

>>14645245

But the overmind and cerebrates had psyonic capabilities.

It was just something about kerrigan being extremely capable at it.

>>14645245

Actually, the Overmind knew the Protoss were an advanced psionic species, but had never met them before.

He was afraid that they'd be at a disadvantage, so decide to bide his time and develop the Zerg's psionic potential through the Terrans.

Psi Emitters contain neural imprints of ghosts, and the Zerg were attracted to it because the Overmind wants humans with psionic abilities.

Metzen and his posse didn't understand this and came to the conclusion that Psi-Emitters are Zerg magnet.

How incompetent can one person get?

>>14645250

The Overmind and Cerebrates use the Void instead of Psionics.

>>14645250

What psionic powers did they have? If I'm mistaken all I saw was kerrigan and ghosts were the next evolution for the zerg. Since protoss were instantly transported to their ships, via crystals in their chests when they die, they couldn't assimilate them for psionics. (which was also retconned in sc2 if you look at the cinematics)

>>14645262

Nevermind. If you accept starcraft 2's story as canon and the void (mirrored in warcraft) then there's nothing more to discuss since they just wanted to jew their customers with whatever sells.

>>14645273

The Void was present in the original Starcraft, you philistine.

That's the whole point of the Protoss needing the Dark Templar's help in killing the Overmind.

man, I remember making fan fiction when I was 15 about how Starcraft series would end, can't believe it ends with this bullshit.

>>14645283

There was not shit about the void in the original starcraft. Only a clandestine group trying to create a hyrid species. I mean if you love space jesus Kerrigan than jerk yourself off to death. The story could have been way much better than just a way to sell a game based off a fucking cliffhanger. Tassadar only combined the dark and high templars power to defeat the overmind.

>>14645291

It wasn't named the Void, but it is mentioned that both the Overmind and the Dark Templar utilized the same energies.

The templars can't kill any Cerebrate, but Zeratul managed to kill Zasz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6IIBBUdwh0&t=0m20s

I can't embed the time for some reason.

>>14645291

And I don't love space Jesus Kerrigan, you dumb twat.

When the hell did I ever said I do?

>>14645297

>>14645302

Apparently you accept sc2 and the void as canon. where in that video did the ysay they use the void? They only say they use the same energies. And in sc2 (which you apparently defend) they say that the overmind was able to link with zeratul to find Auir.

>>14645110

Overall a very good analysis. A fascinating amount of effort put in as well, goddamn.

I personally think the analysis fell for a few simple traps and cliches here and there, notably in Tassadar's capture arc, and the Fenix and Duke analyses in the vanilla Starcraft 1, but reading this did give some new insights and perspectives on the campaign as a whole. It makes me wanna make my own counter-analysis (no way in hell am I doing it though for something of this length, goddamn). I also feel like a few connections weren't made in terms of Kerrigan's self-agency being connected with certain themes about humanity, though I'm still reading it. Still though, fantastic stuff. I'm still reading through it, on the brood war section now and holy shit is this fucking long.

wish we had more posters like that here. That's not you anon, is it?

>>14645306

>Apparently you accept sc2 and the void as canon.

When? Where? The Void was in the SC wiki years before SC2 was even in development, so I just rolled with it.

>And in sc2 (which you apparently defend) they say that the overmind was able to link with zeratul to find Auir.

Where and when in the hell did I defend SC2? Stop sperging out, you manchild.

The Overmind did linked with Zeratul to find Aiur in SC1, it's in the same video I just linked.

>>14645308

Nope. The only thing I'm good at is finding plot holes. The guy really helped me appreciate SC more.

>>14645313

If you just roll with what blizzard shits out then there's no saving you. WC died in WC2 with the robots and submarines and now there is lasers, robots and teleporters with technology we don't even have in modern days (they don't even have magic supporting them). Starcraft died when metzen took over and shit all over it so eat that up and roll with it too. If you love and eat this shit up then be ignorant and happy with it I'm happy for you. But the void was never involved when the overmind linked with Zeratul. And if you rol lwith what blizzard produces then you in fact roll with sc2 and defend that shit with your previous posts.

>>14645329

>robots

Eh?

>>14645331

At least you sage'd to bury this thread like the shit it is. Warcraft 2 introduced retarded future technology that doesn't belong in high fantasy settings which produced the lasers robots, flying robots and whatever retardation you see in WC3 and WoW.

>>14645329

>And if you rol lwith what blizzard produces then you in fact roll with sc2 and defend that shit with your previous posts.

You didn't even bother reading any of my previous posts, did you?

In all of them, I shitted on Metzen and how Blizzard went to shit after James Phinney left.

>If you just roll with what blizzard shits out then there's no saving you.

>Starcraft died when metzen took over and shit all over it so eat that up and roll with it too.

>If you love and eat this shit up then be ignorant and happy with it I'm happy for you.

>But the void was never involved when the overmind linked with Zeratul.

You went full triggered when I mentioned the Void as the energies that they used.

I said that I used the term Void because it was present in the wiki shortly after the original SC:BW trilogy ended.

Are you going to force everyone to say "the energies that Zeratul and the Overmind used" every damn time?

Fucking madman.

>>14645339

I'm asking you what robots you're referring to; I don't remember any robots.

>>14645366

>still fucking defends blizzards art choices

>>14645369

Okay, you're just trolling now.

When did I defend Blizzard's art choices?

WHEN??!!

>>14645370

>shit was in starcraft wiki so I just roll with it

>>14645374

I said I only used the term because it's shorter than "the energies that the Overmind and the Dark Templar used".

Jesus Christ you're such an autistic manchild.

>>14645376

Which is defending blizzards bullshit. If you need the last laugh then just reply to this. I'm glad that shit makes you happy.

>>14645339

>retarded future technology that doesn't belong in high fantasy settings

I mean if you just assert it like that then it must be true.

>>14645357

A submarine is not a robot. It does look a bit wonky though, I'll admit.

>>14645391

Just look at your previous posts, I don't approve of any of the starcraft 2 bullshit. It could have been so much better and would like a discussion about how it could be better but instead i need to point out how much they suck. The fuck is your problem?

>>14645415

Artanis' evolution as a character is just forced, especially the lazy presentation in Legacy of the Void

>Multiple strawman presentations of Old vs New in Protoss Culture

>Artanis comes off as a naive goddamn retarded little shithead SJW who is always right

>>14640823

I think the saddest part is that Kerrigan as the Chosen One plot could've been good IF Kerrigan stayed an evil bitch and was recognized as such, none of that "It wasn't me!" bullshit of the actual Starcraft 2.

Just imagine, Raynor, Tychus, Valerian, everybody fucking wants Kerrigan to pay for her crimes…but they can't kill her, because she's the only one who can stop Amon from royally assraping everybody else. So you end up with the kind of entertaining political machinations and Machiavellian dickery that made Starcraft so good in the first place with all these fragile alliances where everybody is temporarily friends but really are just backstabbing each other at every available opportunity. And Raynor has to keep Kerrigan's Zerg in check while not actually killing her, no matter how badly he wants to put a bullet in that bitch's brain and the good guys basically have to somehow manipulate her into stopping Amon when all she really wants to do is just murder everyone.

Not to mention it'd make Raynor shooting Tychus all the more heart-breaking, a sort of "for the greater good" kind of deal that would probably end up emotionally breaking Jim even more.

>>14645424

Don't get me started on Artanis in Starcraft 2. The retcons fucking infuriated me, but yeah what you're saying is true. Probably the most disgusting line he spoke was when Rohana cut off her nerve cords.

"Perhaps its best to observe history in retrospect without connection rather than having literally all the facts available with every opinion, feeling emotion and thought of everyone in history through one of the most magnificent things ever crafted in the universe"

Fucking disgusting how they treated the loss of the khala as basically no big fucking deal.

>>14645426

Blizzard really went with the easiest and predictable route, not even gonna bother wit the post-SC2 media, it pretty much cemented that there's nothing good left in Starcraft's setting, all three races are in a detente, which is pretty familiar because that's what happened with the WC3 to WoW transition.

Also, Tychus did nothing wrong.

>>14643288 (nice)

The one thing that would salvage everything in WoL would be Tychus killing both at the end and walking out earning his wings of liberty

>>14645402

>I don't approve of any of the starcraft 2 bullshit. It could have been so much better and would like a discussion about how it could be better but instead i need to point out how much they suck.

I only pointed out the plot holes. How can you fix something if you don't even know which part of it is wrong?

>The fuck is your problem?

Right back at ya, buddy. If you wanted a civil discussion, then act civilized; instead of jumping the gun accusing and name calling others.

>>14645424

>>14645436

>Artanis' evolution as a character is just forced, especially the lazy presentation in Legacy of the Void

Metzen was actually trying to push Artanis to become Tassadar 2.0, but failed miserably because he didn't understand what made Tassadar great.

This is fairly obvious, considering how Artanis automatically gains the approval of the Dark Templar, as well as mastering both Khalai and Dark Templar energies; like Tassadar did.

>Multiple strawman presentations of Old vs New in Protoss Culture

>Artanis comes off as a naive goddamn retarded little shithead SJW who is always right

This so much. It hurts to see the unique Protoss culture shafted in order to make way for 'progressive' modern Earth society.

>>14645440

I wouldn't praise WC3 all that much, since it has many retarded plot holes as well.

Like how Mannoroth, the field commander of the Legion and the leader of the physically strongest race in the Legion is killed by Grom and Thrall.

And how Kil'Jaeden went to Illidan and asked him to destroy the Frozen Throne, instead of asking the dreadlords; you know, the ones who are said to be the Lich King's jailers?

And how Varimathras, Detheroc and Balnazzar not being aware that Archimonde was defeated after several months.

And how Varimathras, Detheroc and Balnazzar sent a bunch of ghouls against Arthas instead of ganking up on him.

>>14645492

Just referring to the similarities to the setting after SC2 wraps up

>All factions unite to fight big bad Amon

>Detente and a Cold War sets itself up between Terran, Protoss, and Zerg (Genocidal race becomes a bunch of hippies trying to "Rebuild" worlds that have been destroyed to prove to their Terran and Protoss friends that a Hivemind of Peace is not a joke)

Pretty much a setting where a Starcraft MMO could happen, which is like wtf.

>>14645502

Oh, and it's kinda sad how Timothy Zahn was relegated to writing StarCraft: Evolution, really lost opportunities here because it just read like a Star Wars EU book.

<all this shit in this thread

<sad faggots trying so hard to defend shit writing

<sad faggots defending a mary sue

I'm glad SC2 killed it all. You got what you deserved.

>>14645510

>I'm glad SC2 killed it all.

Metzen already killed it with Brood War, anon.

I really feel sorry for James Phinney, to see his brainchild getting butchered by a bunch of subhumans like Metzen.

>>14645502

>Zerg (Genocidal race becomes a bunch of hippies trying to "Rebuild" worlds that have been destroyed to prove to their Terran and Protoss friends that a Hivemind of Peace

Ah crap, don't remind me of that. It's like they're actively trying to insult the whole IP, and by extension its original creator.

>>14645527

Metzen and Blizzard really went all out to make the Zerg dindunuffin like the Orcs, really getting sick of this shit when they get a concept from WoW, then inject it to Diablo or Starcraft, and the end result of disgust.

>>14645535

Remember that even Amon dindu nuffin, it was the Xel'Naga.

He never did wanted to become a Xel'Naga in the first place, so in response he throws a temper tantrum like a rebellious child.

The Warcraft Universe suffers from this bullshit the most.

>Oh the Orcs dindu nuffing, it was the demons.

>Oh the demons dindu nuffing, it was the Legion.

>Oh the Legion dindu nuffin, it was Sargayras.

>Oh Sargayras dindu nuffing, it was the Void Lords

>>14645546

>Oh Void Lords dindu nuffing, it was the Light!

Expecting them to pull this shit as hard as they did in Reaper of Souls.

>>14645546

I prefer to play as badguys, which is why i liked Horde in WC2. Hated WC3 and WoW Horde.

>>14645535

To be fair, Orcs are kind of humanoid, sentient beings, so humanizing them is easier. Zerg are mindless, vicious bug monsters, humanizing them is like trying to humanize the alien from Ridley Scott's Alien, it's bizzare.

>>14645610

I also enjoy playing the bad guys, since you're working to fuck things up.

Playing the Zerg campaign in the original Starcraft was pretty fun, even until you progress into the Protoss campaign because you can see how the consequences of your Zerg actions affect the Protoss society.

>>14645626

>humanizing niggers is not bizarre

Okay.

>ITT: whiny lorefags

>>14645723

nice shit post fag

>>14645043

> pretty much like Valve did with Counter-Strike and Dota.

Valve didn't design either of those games.

>>14645909

CS:GO and DOTA 2, how many normalfag addicts have you seen in those game trying to get loot boxes or increasing their MMR? should have clarified that point, they know how to design a game to get junkies.

>>14643015

>>14643272

Not Mary Sue, key features of MS is power level of everything well above existing characters (mine is better than yours). And this power level has no proper explanation except for blanket "chosen one", MS pops from nowhere or gets sudden power buff from nowhere (she visited some place during summer vacation now she is op), no proper character development. (Ironically Harry Potter himself is exemplar Mary Sue.)

Kerrigan had character development, very proper and fitting to power buffs she received. She gets power ups in small and logical steps players observe and play. Even more after all power ups she was still not so OP as she was launched into power vacuum left after old superpowers killed each other clearing way for her.

>>14646056

>mary sue means everything that applies to Kerrigan

>lol but she isn't a mary sue cause raisins

She is a shit character, for fucks sake, stop bending over backwards to defend her.

>>14646056

A Mary Sue is a character in which the author will bend the rules of the universe to give her everything she needs and wants.

And also to make her look good. That means Kerrigan is a Mary Sue, you faggot. Look at how many rules she broke :

>she's the chosen one

>she was born with great power, didn't earn any of it

>she doesn't need Purity of Form to become a Xel'Naga

>she didn't transform into an eldritch tentacle god like Amon or Ouros

>she is forgiven for her crimes against everyone because "THE PROPHECY SAYS SO!", she didn't earn anyone's forgiveness whatsoever

And don't forget how she's such a shit character.

>She massacred the Protoss colony on Kaldir even though she could've just left the planet in peace

>She destroyed industrial civilian worlds without mercy, just because they're connected to the Dominion

Kerrigan destroyed multiple civilian worlds, while Mengsk destroyed a world with a massive military force.

Kerrigan did it for revenge, Mengsk did it to stop the Confederacy from unleashing more Zerg on other fringe worlds.

Kerrigan's motivations are self-serving, while Mengsk did it for power while also saving the human race.

>>14646121

Nuh uuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh she's not a mary sue cause nuh uhh

>>14646078

>Kerrgian is bad character so lets call her Marry Sue

>because i heard that Marry Sues are bad and i am so limited that i can't explain my dislike other than calling things bad names i heard from others

>>14646130

Read nigger.

I'm actually arguing how KERRIGAN IS in fact A MARY SUE

>>14646121

>>she doesn't need Purity of Form to become a Xel'Naga

>one Xel'Naga dies to lend power and give a birth to another Xel'Naga

See this power up doesn't appears from nowhere. Great price was paid. Its another now becoming habit step for Kerrigan power up when great entity lends her power. Proper Mary Sues don't need teachers, "spiritual fathers", anyone helping and preping them and paying price. They bypass character development.

>she is forgiven for her crimes against everyone because "THE PROPHECY SAYS SO!", she didn't earn anyone's forgiveness whatsoever

Well she is not good person (though been bad person doesn't necessary makes bad character, it makes evil character). You may say that such forgiveness is bad writing, maybe yes maybe no. It has huge examples in real life you know. People still praise Hitler, Stalin and Mao despite all hideous crimes against humanity they committed. Very bad writing.

>>14646204

>one Xel'Naga dies to lend power and give a birth to another Xel'Naga

>See this power up doesn't appears from nowhere

This does appear out of nowhere, since the game specifically mentions that only one with purity of essence and purity of form can ascend into a Xel'Naga.

>Great price was paid

Nigger, she didn't pay any price for that power. Some nobody Xel'Naga who was brought into existence at the last minute paid the price for her.

Said nobody Xel'Naga was also mysteriously kept alive by Amon for no reason; he's only there to give Kerrigan her powerup.

>Well she is not good person (though been bad person doesn't necessary makes bad character, it makes evil character).

You forgot how hypocritical she is, condemning Mengsk for the same crimes she did. She's badly written because she's portrayed as space Jesus all the time despite her atrocities.

>You may say that such forgiveness is bad writing, maybe yes maybe no.

>People still praise Hitler, Stalin and Mao despite all hideous crimes against humanity they committed.

Nigger, you gave very bad real life examples.

Hitler, Stalin and Mao weren't praised by the people they terrorized.

Kerrigan on the other hand, was forgiven by the very people she terrorized "BECAUSE THE PROPHECY SAYS SO", which is why it's bad. She did nothing to earn that forgiveness.

Grow some brain cells, faggot.

>>14643035

>Kerrigan isn't a mary sue. Mary sues aren't supposed to be genocidal megalomaniacal villains

They can be. That's what makes Mary Sues terrible characters. They are considered by the author (or player if you're playing a P&P RPG) to be perfect people who are capable of anything, even though they clearly shouldn't be to the observer. Mary Sues are marked by the author's obsession with them, not the actions of the character. Many Mary Sues have "troubled pasts" to make them sound more edgy and developed but are more often than not just copied versions of Batman's backstory.

>>14646196

>>14646287

Didn't they also take Jimmy and Kerrigan's romance from a fanfic and make it canon? I don't remember anything like that being substantiated from materials taken from SC1+BW alone.

>>14646252

>she didn't pay any price for that power

So what? All the time people stand on others shoulders and get all the glory when others get the dick, death, and pay taxes to some billionaire son of a bitch starting BASED wars. It is very real and this is how world works. Thing about MS that unlike IRL they create power from nothing they don't need lend/steal from millions or literal gods.

>Some nobody Xel'Naga who was brought into existence at the last minute paid the price for her.

"Well we wrote themselves into teh corner Deux Ex Machina saves us!" Its a classical failure of writing, sure.

> weren't praised by the people they terrorized.

lolwut? Stalin and Mao are very praised in countries, Russia and China, where some their victims are still alive, and hundreds of millions of victims descendants live. Fascism in Germany is hopefully buried for real, yes.

>>14646321

>Didn't they also take Jimmy and Kerrigan's romance from a fanfic and make it canon?

Well in the original SC1 he did went to Char to get Kerrigan back, so I think it's really love.

If he didn't love her he wouldn't have risked everything just to get her back.

Doesn't make the romance in SC2 any less shit though.

>>14646326

>So what?

>Unrelated bullcrap.

The authors bend the rules of the universe to give Kerrigan her powerup.

These real life people didn't and cannot bend the rules of the universe to get their powerups.

>"Well we wrote themselves into teh corner Deux Ex Machina saves us!" Its a classical failure of writing, sure.

Yes, this is one of the reasons why she's a Mary Sue. The authors had to retcon everything in order to give Kerrigan what she wants.

>lolwut? Stalin and Mao are very praised in countries, Russia and China

Unlike Stalin and Mao, Kerrigan and her victims are still alive, and her atrocities are fairly recent (4 years).

Unlike Stalin and Mao, there were no history books and mass manipulation to cover up her crimes.

Unlike Stalin and Mao, her enemies personally know her, and was betrayed by her.

>>14644878

Proved me right EXACTLY for the reasons that you have stated.

Shit literally retarded and child-like turned into "muh stronk womyn".

Females made successful and strong is the biggest joke in the whole industry. Metroid included.

>>14646431

That's why I keep telling people the only purpose of females in stories is to be fapbait.

>>14646377

>Unlike Stalin and Mao, Kerrigan and her victims are still alive, and her atrocities are fairly recent (4 years).

Well 4 years after major Stalin and Mao atrocities(1937 and 1970) entire Russia and China praised them to no end. On these dates you would not find single living soul in these countries not liking Stalin or Mao from teh bottom of their heart :^)

>>14646431

Unlike typical "muh stronk womyn", she actually learnt from her mistakes and becomes more competent. Until a certain incompetent writer fucked shit up.

>>14646448

She was fuck ugly in SC1 though.

>>14646477

>Entire Russia and China

>No exceptions

You must be retarded.

And you fail to prove that she isn't a Mary Sue. Case closed :^)

>>14646504

>>Entire Russia and China

>>No exceptions

100% guarantee. If you would came to anyone on the street in these countries on these dates and ask about their leaders they would assume attention stance, and start screaming "I love our Great Leader so much". No exceptions :^)

>>14646617

>the joke

>your head

>>14645492

sorry you couldn't calm your autism for a second and really discuss how much blizz is shit.

>>14646196

well >>14646287 is correct, this book retconned all of original Jim Raynor. And even had to kill off all the characters in the last chapter for obvious reasons since they never existed.

>>14646134

I was larping one of these pathetic faggots…

>>14646146

She fits every point of a Mary Sue. Not my fault you are retarded and making retarded excuses for why she is not one.

>>14646306

>Didn't they also take Jimmy and Kerrigan's romance from a fanfic and make it canon?

They went into great detail to flesh it out, as it was otherwise nothing more but flirting in a few short lines.

>>14646204

>paying a price

What price did kerrigan ever pay for being the ruler of all the zerg + a space god ? She even gets back with raynor after genociding everything she could, including the cerebrates.

>>14646781

>still not discussing how much blizz is shit

The heavens devils book made Jimmy a dominion soldier from the start, a gary sue special forces one at that instead of just a marshal on a planet no one gives a shit about. They tried to make him a farmboy at first but he evolved into gary very quickly. In all the new starcrafts he never once mentions all the buddies in his squad that died which he apparently felt deeply for. It's just a bunch of bullshit. I tried reading some of the WoW 2 novels and couldn't even finish them. They all devolved into "hey critically acclaimed times magazine author, watch this playthorugh of warcraft and WoW and write about it."

what the fuck do YOU have to offer.

>>14646813

So why just point that out instead of adding to the discussion?

>>14646778

>the cerebrates

you mean the things that never existed goy?

but in all seriousness how the fuck would you de-zergify kerrigan without idk having holes left where you removed infected tissue? i mean shit wouldn't she just be fucking dead? and not like it worked all the way because she kept the fucking dread locks. but that got retconed into amon losing influence over her. that was there when? and the fucking moment she gets "back to normal" she throws a hissy fit that she ""TOTALLY CHILL GUYS, i didn't mean it"" is locked in a lab so she shows exactly why she still needs to be locked the fuck up. only to then NOT DEFEND THE base with the zerg so jim "Bitchboy" ranor can get captured. so she can further tantrum, nearly taking out the whole bridge crew on the Hyperion for shits and giggles. because lol totally not the queen of blades any more or a poster child for why psyoinic childurms need to be rounded up.

>>14646826

It's totally retarded. The artifact thing that nukes all the zerg in the final mission of WoL doesn't burn kerrigan herself because of plot armor, of course until mengsk uses it then it hurts her. >>14640823 has the screencaps. Jim Raynor has been reduced to a doctor that points out the color of baby poop for an app in commercials (skip to the end)

>>14646817

>Pointing that out isn't adding anything to the discussion

Are you going to define what is and what is not adding something to the discussion now?

If you want some contributions then here it is :

- BW should never had happened

- The Khalai Protoss should still retreat to Shakuras and the Dark Templar would have mixed views over receiving them as refugees

- An Ulrezaj-like figure would rebel, stage a resistance and gain some followers and what not against the Khalai Protoss (Protoss civil war)

- The surviving Cerebrates would flee Aiur and regroup at Char

- Without the Overmind to function as the hive-mind, the Cerebrates must adapt to the sudden change in power structure

- They were once mere extensions of the Overmind, and now must embrace individuality in order to ensure the Zerg's survival

- They need to learn from Kerrigan's examples; and their opposing motivations would drive them against one another :

- The Cerebrates do not know how to function as individuals in order to adapt to this new predicament successfully; but cares about the Zerg's well-being

- Kerrigan does know how to function as an individual, a trait that the Cerebrates need greatly; but she doesn't care about the Zerg and only wants revenge against Mengsk

- As for the Terran, insert Umojan vs Kel-Morian Combine vs Dominion here.

- I can't elaborate much, since we don't have any characters from Umoja nor KMC to go about exploring new frontiers.

- Hybrids can exist too, I suppose, but no Amon and his bullshit.

Here's my headcanon, if I were to write a sequel for the original Starcraft.

It's just bare bones because it's pointless to rewrite something that already exists; but it's far more solid than the bullshit Blizzard made.

I remember playing SC and BW and enjoying so much about the setting and characters, but the more it became about Kerrigan the more shit it became. Up until the end of BW it was salvagable, but at the end of it and after the entire plot revolved around her. Everything else was just window dressing.

That, is a mary sue. Anyone saying otherwise is retarded or lying.

>>14646826

>but in all seriousness how the fuck would you de-zergify kerrigan without idk having holes left where you removed infected tissue?

You wouldn't. The science fiction theme was replaced with space magic at that very moment.

Every *magical* thing about stacraft could be explained with some sort of technology before. But at SC2 they just don't care anymore and everything goes. Before even the most mystical of protoss stuff could be boiled down to a mighty weapon.

Now we have space gods running around.

>>14646891

thanks (34) what a better post than just pointing out your posts. Congratulations 8ch /v/ needs more quality posts like this.

>>14646778

What price did Stalin or Mao pay for been most beloved and successful leaders of 20th century? Lives of millions goys. Sounds familiar kek?

Starcraft II should have been centered around chaos caused in the previous games and that it forms itself. Wings of Liberty should have involved conflicts from the previous government and the current Dominion, with Raynor actually being the space pirate he's supposed to be, before turning into the return of the Zerg and a brutal bloody affair to remove the Kerrigan. You shouldn't have played as Raynor, but a faceless commander who served directly under him. Playing as Raynor was a huge mistake, because he just constantly fucking talks to you directly or monologuing to himself. Tychus should have been liberated in the final missions, and would have been ordered to capture the Queen of Blades because the Terrans can't contain their Zerg boners, but he'd disobey and kill her with Raynor. Instead of Kerrigan fucking off to her homeworld to breed more Zerg from her asscheeks, there should have been steady pressure, with a subplot about Zerg infiltration. Killing Kerrigan in the first campaign of Starcraft 2 would have set the tone for how fucking bloody the game is going to get.

Heart of the Swarm should have begun with Kerrigan's death, and the hatching of four of her "children", which are infested Terrans like her that function very much like cerebrates. The campaign would have you play as the youngest, and it should have revolved around them bickering with each other and struggling to retake territory and control the swarms, push off Protoss fleets, and potentially ending with some wicked betrayals between them. The development of the infested characters would have been interesting to follow, as would their betrayals and efforts to work together. The primal Zerg were a mistake. The Kerrigan re-infestation story was a mistake. That all has to go. In the late game, one of the new infested (that always stood by your side no matter what and was really supportive) just dies needlessly, and it creates a power vacuum just seconds after the previous power vacuum ended. The Zerg campaign needs to end with them being more powerful than ever but not unified.

Legacy of the Void really should have been focused around a full-blown civil war. Aldaris got his shit shut down in Brood War, but the Protoss conflict (and the fact that they don't seem to give two shits about killing each other while literally mid-combat) really needed to be explored. The missions should have been about tagging tribes as either allies or enemies and having your unit pool/hero units chosen by doing this. Protoss life would become so valuable at this point that they'd start fielding robotic units at a basic level that are supported by elite protoss units. No, not this "purifier" shit, with like robot zealots mimicking characters who should have stayed dead, but things like combat probes, or things that more mimicked the first Starcraft unit themes. Templar forces would field highly-elite Templar who act as Zealot replacements that are protected by robots, while the Dark Templar would field robots as a base infantry unit and support them with their shady shit. Then the whole thing needed to go wild, with the Protoss uncovering an ancient Xel'Naga battleship, so powerful that the few Protoss surviving their self-inflicted ideological genocide (which took place during the zerg-inflicted genocide) would be reborn as a new superpower. The last mission would be about retaking Aiur, but it would go so poorly that some new Protoss character stands up and says "I've had it up to here with your fucking shit everybody", leads all of his followers to commandeer the ship, and essentially glasses the entire surface of Aiur. This would kick off a hate-fuelled galactic cleansing. Protoss would be set up as a threat to all existance in the aftermath of their campaign. There is no good ending - everyone is dead except for a handful of people and they're set up to die in the future.

There are good guys and bad guys, but Starcraft 2 needed to focus on how much shit sucks and how much worse it can get.

>>14640823

The first picture ignores the fact that Mengsk was aware of what was happening the entire time because he planted Tychus on Raynor's ship, and had ordered him to kill the Queen of Blades. The real retarded shit is that he forgave everything Sarah did because she once upon a time gave him a handjob from across the room with her brain, despite her betraying him as the Queen of Blades, but literally won't put away his grudge for Mengsk who, despite betraying him, also saved all of his people.

>>14646912

You are not beloved if people are forced to love you or send to gulag/left homeless and without a job.

>>14646931

>Chad Great Leader vs Virgin American president

>>14646958

>obese old cannibal

>chad

Nice try memelet.

>>14646958

>Great Leader

Great at leading people to starvation, but that wasn't real communism anyway. Gotta try again.

>>14646906

In SC1 the Xel'Naga were just a race of advanced alien scientists.

In SC2 they made them into literal eldritch gods that can bend space time and destroy planets.

One must wonder how the fuck did Amon used the Overmind and his Zerg (whose forces was only limited to Zerus at the time) to kill of an entire Xel'Naga population.

The same Xel'Naga who are eldritch gods that can bend space time and destroy planets.

>>14646908

You don't have to be so condescending about it.

Need I remind you that you're the one who sperged out about how it's a SIN to use the term VOID?

>>14646912

You keep derailing the main argument simply because you fail to prove that Kerrigan isn't a Mary Sue. How sad.

>>14646924

SC2's problem is that it changes the original storytelling style of SC1.

I blame Metzen and Morhaime for wanting things to be more movie-like and cinematic.

Making us play as a faceless commander taking orders from existing characters would've made us connect with the story a bit more, as we don't have to self-insert as Raynor/Kerrigan/Artanis who are cringy as fuck.

>>14647009

I keep thinking this isn't real, but its the absolute state of blizz. When will it end? When is the right-wing culture revolt going to happen?

>>14647009

>praising

>followed by a condescending comment

>still sperging out how it's a sin to use a certain word

Nice contribution there, you hypocrite.

Well this thread went to shit while I was asleep, how disappointing

>>14646987

>putting leftist memes into chad meme

>praising a tyrannical manchild leader

Fuck off back to 4chan with that shit.

>>14647091

>All these shitlords calling Kerrigan a mary sue, I can't even

>>14647103

>>praising a tyrannical manchild leader

You still don't get the point. Tyrannical gencodial manchilds getting the more praise than democratic leaders. Owning their people tyrans can spin out and produce very shiny and successful looking public image comparing to the democratic presidents fighting for approval, openly bombarded by insults by half of the country and Muller investigation nose steadily tying over their necks. Very unfair? Yes but this is how it is.

>>14647208

Nigger I live in a country that had a dictator like that. People were forced to pretend to cry when he died, or they would be jailed by the police.

This is by far the fakest form of praise. Faker than hooker moans.

>>14647108

>I call things I don't like other things because I heard that calling them this buzzword makes them sound even worse

learn what the definition of words actually are nigger

>>14644796

The UED was so disappointing.

You have a human civilization that developed for thousands of years while the remainder of the migrants had to build back up.

Yet they use the same tech and vehicles.

>>14644829

>Get you ass handed

>Id Hop to again push Kerrigan as a Mary Sue.

Starcraft is one of the worst examples of a video game, the only people that like it are freakishly deformed manlets like Destiny and millions of unwashed internet cafe gooks.

>>14647591

>anon can't handle people being better at a complex and fun video game than he is

>the game is shit and everyone who plays it is a no-life tryhard smelly virgin :^)

I mean Day9 and Tasteless already blows this theory out of the water. They look(ed) quite sharp and are incredibly photogenic, confident and well-adjusted, probably the most out of any gaming scene

I still wonder to this day how in the ever loving fuck Chris Metzen managed to convince anyone at Blizzard to let him near a pen. His writing is abysmal.

>>14643269

>The protoss you knew from SC1 are nowhere to be seen for most of the game

they were licking their wounds and preparing to take back aiur and defend shakuras. aiur got zerged into the ground and shakuras got zerged halfway into the ground so the remnants of the conclave were pretty badly skull-zerged. apparently the tal'darim had been a splinter group of protoss, separate from both the conclave and the dark templar for some indeterminate amount of time, apparently worshipping amon the whole time.

>>14647503

>same tech and vehicles

apart from valkyries.

>>14651278

What's up with the mary sue stuff? Infested Kerrigan in SC1 was constantly vulnerable, needing the player's cerebrate to protect her and consolidate her power. SC1 & BW were stories of power and betrayal. Kerrigan was just more devious that the others.

nuKerri's shit though

>>14651332

People like to throw around mary sue as a buzzword because its more cutting of an insult than saying "badly written character" even if it doesn't actually fit reality

>>14651387

nigger what is a mary sue?

>an idealized, seemingly perfect and flawless character

now let's look at Kerrigan

>evil whore who kills millions of people, betrays every other character and lies constantly and acts like an insecure child

>one character still believes she has a chance to be saved, the rest don't trust her as far as they can throw her, but because of poor writing (not conclusive proof that she is "loved" by the authors. She's intended to be the main fucking villain, all this shows so far is poor writing skills) most of them fall for her deception

>her power is actually low for a main villain because she wasn't able to take the UED on without help from the protoss and terran

Do you have any opinions from Metzen that he even liked her as a character? All this shows was that, yes, there was shit writing in brood war.

>>14644796

Someone screenshoot this shit for the future!

>>14646924

This is a better outcome than what we were given.

Some thoughts:

Mengsk should have been deployed more effectively instead of being treated like a comic-book super-villain. After the UED got fucked, this was to be Humanity truly unified under one banner, with only rare exceptions like pirates causing trouble. The Terrans should have been absolutely horrifying.

The Zerg not being unified yet still flourishing would be a fantastic motif because that was the whole goddamn point of killing the Overmind. Metzen retconned the fuck out of Daggoth because he lost any and all inspiration after Brood War.

The Protoss had finally been taken off of their high horse by the end of Brood War, so some shift in mindset and culture should have been displayed, but you don't really see that in SC2.

>>14651387

>why you feel the need to defend such a shit character?

I'm defending sc1's story. It was good, especially for it's time.

>>14654233

BUT THEN REDEMPTION

>>14651406

>>14654188

wtf happened to >>14651387? Was it reported? There was nothing rule-breaking about it.

>>14654240

REPEAT

>>14642868

In all fairness, the Protoss campaign is mostly just a fun galactic romp of making political allies. Just the start of the game and the end of the game ended up being total trash.

>>14654313

SC2 Protoss fucking suck. SC1 Protoss were old, wise and mystic-like. They had an alien looking morphology and weirder technology. In SC2, the Protoss are muscular blue dudes with no sense. RoboFenix shakes like he has a diesel engine. The taldarim are a lol-evil stereotypical joke. Even the words they use sound too mundane for protoss.

>>14654342

I unironically liked protoss' fall from grace (or unmystification of) SC2 because they were portrayed as the most humane race out of all three. WoL terran mission was nothing more than wanky adventure of uncle Jimbo HoS, I will keep pretending like it is not canon but protoss narrative colorfully described the rise and fall of civilization in SC1 and their newfound hope after getting freed from khala.

Also their political struggle btw nerazim and khalia was more convincing than artificial plot devices of Terran factions. Sad they just ended it like 'lel let's just nuke our centuries old safe haven in the name of Aiur'

>>14654276

Don't forget noble savage and silly quirky technophile archetypes everywhere.

>>14648296

Because he's probably cheap as shit. He even voices every other character too.

>>14654395

BUT THERE WAS NO CONFLICT BETWEEN NERAZIM AND KHALIA! They only mention it happens. The Protoss campaign should have started with Artanis fighting some crazy Khalia faction in Shakuras. At least two missions where he struggles to unite both factions to retake Aiur.

>>14654505

But they already tried that in HoS and it would be lazy writing if they reuse the same plot structure again. For what it's worth we had Tal'darim missions without really killing bamboo sprout face

>>14648565

Is there any point in time, during either the Champaign or multiplayer, that Valkyries are actually useful? I mean sure they have the AoE attack but their direct damage was piss poor, the amount it resources required to get them in a critical mass could be spent on wraiths, with higher direct AA attack, cloaking, and ground attack. Battle cruisers which are at least situationally useful and soak up damage and divert attention. Goliaths which have powerful antiair, aren't vulnerable to anti-aircraft turrets or weapons and are available relatively early on. Or a fuckhuge ball of Marines and medics, the most cost effective unit in the game due to its range, stimpacks and access to the fastest healing mobile assist units in the game.

>>14654252

He probably deleted his own post and ran away after he got BTFO.

>>14647503

>id hop

>says the (31) id hopper still defending shitty Kerrisue

What next? Since the writing is shit then she can't be a Mary Sue? If anything, shit writing is especially evident when there is an MS present, which she most definitely is.

>>14647503

>kerrigan isn't a mary sue

>genocides colonies from all races

>revenge revenge revenge

>love of her life loves her despite everything even after death threats

>becomes star god

>corrupted

>decorrupted

>corrupted again

>primal corrupted

>star godified

Anon she is beyond any laws this setting had.

>>14655742

>>14655722

Guys if you're going to discuss mary sueness at least separate the sc1 from the sc2 kerrigan.

>>14655742

>>14655722

Guys if you're going to discuss mary sueness at least separate the sc1 from the sc2 kerrigan. Nobody denies the sc2 one is shit in every sense, including being a mary sue. The point here is that sc1's kerrigan was a good character. Predominating over the other factions doesn't make her a mary sue, it just means she was the main character of the game. She often needed her cerebrate to help her, and needed to manipulate others into destroying the ued expedition. She just won, that doesn't make her a mary sue.

>>14655778

woops

>>14655787

>>14655778

In SC1 no. But SC2 is official lore, like it or not.

>>14655787

>sc1 she no mary sue!

<conveniently important to overmind

<conveniently powered up to the point new overmind doesn't have control over her brood

<conveniently not under control of new overmind

<conveniently positioned to play all other characters by plot

<conveniently best strategist of all characters

<conveniently the strongest military power in sector despite having needed three other groups help minutes just before

>noooooooooooooooooo not mary sue!

SC1 and BW had good story outside of everything Kerrigan. What kind of pathetic loser feels the need to defend Kerrigan to the point of denying her obviously being a mary sue?

>>14656008

Insults aside, what you call convenient is just extraordinary. Did you want Kerrigan to be a nobody?

>important to Overmind

Yes, she's psionically gifted

>powered beyond control

No. Kerrigan was a puppet, passioned as she was. It wasn't until the Overmind died that she regained free will.

>not under control of new Overmind

It never matured.

>played them all/best strategist

That's the point of her story. She's cunning. Someone had to win.

>best power despite needing help

She was the best power only after her machinations had bore fruit.

>mary sue

Extraordinary tales are about extraordinary people. Jim was a simple nobody but that was to introduce the player to the world. Even he ends up in command of a fighting force. If her vulnerabilities throughout her campaign doesn't convince you she's not all-powerful, maybe at least her mistake of letting Jim survive char shows that she's not perfect.

>>14656122

>Did you want Kerrigan to be a nobody?

<implying there are only two options, where Kerrigan is the most important character or 'a nobody'

>Yes, she's psionically gifted

Like all the other ghosts? No, of course not, she's the most gifted. Unless you want to argue that there were no other ghosts on Tarsonis, despite it being the capital, or that the horde swarming over her was just nice enough to to rend her limb from limb unlike those other ghosts… Again, plot armor, which in and of itself doesn't make a mary sue, but combined with all the rest surely does.

>Kerrigan was a puppet

To the first Overmind, conveniently when there's a new one she has her own brood, and remains not only free from that Overmind, but able to wrest control over her brood from it. Which makes sense, with here being such a super special mary sue.

>It never matured

Amazingly convenient.

>That's the point of her story. She's cunning. Someone had to win.

What a massive faggot you are. She was trained as a psionic spec ops. Not as a commander, and yet she out moves actual veteran commanders. Through demonstrating her own strategical prowess? No, by those veterans being conveniently retarded.

>She was the best power only after her machinations had bore fruit.

She was best power immediately after the UED lost, and conveniently rather than eliminate her, her former allies just fuck off and let her be le epic queen of blades.

It is incredibly funny to see you faggots go on and on about her not being a mary sue. She's almost as bad a mary sue as Rey from Soy Wars. Your arguments are so ridiculous that I'm half inclined to believe that you are trolling.

SC2 plot was an insult to everything before it, Kerrigan included.

>>14656197

no point in screaming to the deaf.

>>14656197

>To the first Overmind, conveniently when there's a new one she has her own brood, and remains not only free from that Overmind, but able to wrest control over her brood from it. Which makes sense, with here being such a super special mary sue.

<Kerrigan should've just been nothing more than a cerebrate, the fact that she was a gifted human with psionic abilities unlocked should've been wasted as a servile being

Its like you don't know about the strategy of giving autonomy to someone you'll consider useful, and she is far fucking different from a cerebrate

>Amazingly convenient.

<Kerrigan should've been a puppet for 2 games that would've made for a much better story

You would've written a worse story than Metzen if you were in charge, holy shit

>What a massive faggot you are. She was trained as a psionic spec ops. Not as a commander, and yet she out moves actual veteran commanders. Through demonstrating her own strategical prowess? No, by those veterans being conveniently retarded.

<ignoring the fact that she loses to Tassadar and doesn't really do shit in the first game outside of embarrassing herself, and only really wins brood war through betrayal and afterwards, brute force on top of controlling a race that's just known for being a swath of death and destruction

The zerg are also an overpowered force when anyone is controlling them. You don't necessarily "need" strategy when you have control over a large force of zerg. Mengsk's own strategy simply involved overrunning a planet with Zerg with that psi emitter, acting as if they were a weapon and not something that the confederacy's defenses could actually contend with

>She was best power immediately after the UED lost, and conveniently rather than eliminate her, her former allies just fuck off and let her be le epic queen of blades.

<implying they could kill her after the losses of hugely important commanders like Duke and Fenix and the fact that she basically had all power to kill mengsk at the time, as well as Raynor

The only force that could take her on and beat her was the UED, and she basically combined everyone together to take them down and then be the first to seize control and backstab everyone else.

>>14656204

>no point in screaming to the deaf.

That's how I feel about it, faggot. Was Kerrigan as offensively Mary Sueish in SC1+BW? No, but SC2 didn't do anything to rectify it. Kerrigan became central the the whole plot of both games, because there was never any other option. There was no campaign to defeat her in SC2, and there was never anything in the story more important than her. She was conveniently powerful, conveniently catered to by events, conveniently positioned to take advantage of all the other players, conveniently never really challenged, conveniently always getting power upgrades, conveniently immune to things she shouldn't be, conveniently absolved of her wrongdoing, conveniently the absolute winner of the entire story.

She should have died on Tarsonis. She added absolutely nothing of value to the story after that, and in fact the focus on her ruined what was great about the setting. Of course you will just cry that she isn't a sue and that she was a good important character, because you are a sad pathetic faggot with shit taste.

We could have had a real war between Protoss/Terran/Zerg. We could have had the other Terran factions represented. We could have had so much more, but instead it was all about Kerrigan. Even just the UED were there so that there was a convenient villian for the player ran factions to fight, instead of fighting the Zerg. The zerg who logically should have been the number one threat even when the UED was there, were conveniently not so Kerrigan could be more important than she deserved to be.

>>14656246

>Its like you don't know about the strategy of giving autonomy to someone you'll consider useful, and she is far fucking different from a cerebrate

>let's ignore how she was servile to the original Overmind, but the new one, nope, magically protected

>You would've written a worse story than Metzen if you were in charge, holy shit

What value does a free Kerrigan add? Why is she so fucking important to you? Why does she have to be more important than any of the other characters?

<the rest of your shit

Not even worth my time

>>14656246

>You don't necessarily "need" strategy when you have control over a large force of zerg.

How is that an argument at all ?

<lul you just win when you have a lot

>>14656263

>No, but SC2 didn't do anything to rectify it. Kerrigan became central the the whole plot of both games,

This. When I was a little kid I first only hard SC1 without boordwar. I fucking loved the Overmind. It was cool being a cerebrate.

Kerrigan was so irrelevant to me I couldn't give a shit about her.

Then later on I got broodwar. I never finished the campaign. I didn't like the zerg without the overmind at all. It made sense for the bug things to be controlled by a giant brainlike entity with uknown and mysterious powers.

Kerrigan ruling over them was just not very interesting for me.

And then SC2 came out and … holy shit what were they thinking ?

>It wasn't until the Overmind died that she regained free will.

She always had free will as Infested Kerrigan. That's how she was able to fight and argue with Zasz.

>That's the point of her story. She's cunning. Someone had to win.

She wasn't cunning. Metzen made everyone retarded just to make her look smart.

- The Psi Disruptor is the most valuable chess piece for the UED, but they didn't even bother to protect it properly and they didn't even bother to create additional Disruptors.

- Tassadar said to the Protoss that being exterminated is better than infestation; but in BW the Protoss readily side with Kerrigan (infestation) against the UED (extermination).

- Mengsk, Raynor and Fenix expressed concern over a potential betrayal, but didn't take any countermeasures' at all.

>She was the best power only after her machinations had bore fruit.

No, she was the best power because Metzen retconned the power balance and made the Zerg the most powerful force in the sector.

- [ RETCON #01 ] SC said that the Protoss achieved pyrrhic victory; BW forgets this.

- [ RETCON #02 ] SC's Zerg Broods can only be controlled by Cerebrates; BW forgets this.

- [ RETCON #03 ] SC's Zerg Broods went feral and start killing everything else, including other Zerg once their Cerebrates are killed; BW forgets this.

- [ RETCON #04 ] SC Conclave hates the Dark Templar, and the Dark Templar were exiled via a Xel'Naga spaceship ; BW suddenly conjured a Warp Gate to Shakuras out of nowhere.

- The Overmind and at least 3 Cerebrates died at the end of SC. The Zerg should've started tearing each other to pieces, but mysteriously did not do so due to RETCONS #01 and '''#03.

- Considering how Zerg Broods can only be controlled by the Overmind and the Cerebrates, the death of all of them should result in all of the Zerg being rampant. This did not happen because of RETCONS #02 and #03.

- Her 'manipulations' also didn't make any sense, since she was on Char when the Overmind died, but she somehow mind-controlled Raszagal long before the Protoss themselves made it to Shakuras.

Metzen broke a lot of rules to save her ass and make her look good.

She definitely counts as a MARY SUE.

>>14656340

>Holy shit what were they thinking?

They weren't. What were you expecting from Metzen?

>>14656359

You know what? You make a good argument, actually. Everyone was too retarded around her. Thank you for taking the time to make your point.

>>14656263

She was willing to follow orders, but she still had free will unlike the others. That's literally explained and done numerous times by her you fucking retard. She wasn't a simple extension of will like the other cerebrates.

>what value does a free kerrigan add?

A wholly different type of character for an otherwise collective hivemind zerg?

Are you fucking dense?

<hurr I'm not gonna read things that actually go against my argument

>>14656340

<lol you just win when you have a lot

that is literally the point of a swarm my dude Who needs strategy when you can literally overrun everyone and everything?

>>14656359

>Metzen broke a lot of rules to save her ass and make her look good

There still isn't proof of that. She was already set up to be the main villain by the end of Starcraft 1. All this proves was that there was bad writing done in Brood War and Metzen doesn't know how to into subtlety.

>to make her look good

You can't define "good" can you? Does good in your case only refer to power? That's just poor writing on behalf of a villain character. A mary sue isn't supposed to be a fucking antagonist in a fucking story. Do you think metzen would jerk off to or self-insert as a genocidal, betraying, lying childish and insecure villain? It makes no sense.

A villain like Kerrigan has almost no redeeming features, which is counteracting towards what a mary sue would fucking be. The only thing she has in her favor is incredible amounts of power, and plot armor because Metzen couldn't write a damn. As for retcons, all that shows is a lack of knowledge on Metzen's part for that shit.

If by "good" you mean he tried to make her look like a competent villain, that's an entirely different thing than a mary sue, unless you mean that he tried to make her look like a "good" villain, like an anti-villain of sorts which she most definitely was not. Her morality was twisted and vile considered by any and everybody who would even take a cursory glance at her, both in and out of game

She isn't a fucking mary sue. You can argue this all you want but she's not. You can say she's a shitly written character, and there's probably another term for what she is, but a "Mary sue" is not it at fucking all.

I think faggot white knights just have a problem with calling any female character from a popular IP a Mary Sue, no matter how apt it is. Similar shit arguments were used to defend Rey.

>>14656398

http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Villain_Sue

>>14656398

>that is literally the point of a swarm my dude Who needs strategy when you can literally overrun everyone and everything?

Nigger the swarm still needs time to evolve to match new battlefield conditions. It still needs resources and still needs someone to guide it, rather than be a retarded blob.

Every time it wasn't actively controlled or guided it was limited to marauder tier actions on civilian colonies.

>>14656629

>stalin

>happens to control large empire of commie slaves

>nothing else great about him

>this is my defense against calling kerrigan a mary sue

This argument was weak earlier in the thread and it is still weak. KYS

>>14657132

>stalin got the USSR all by himself

For being a commie, you sure do idolize the individual.

>>14656544

>>14656572

>Villain Sue

This is more apt of a term. Good enough.

>>14657468

A VIllain Sue is a SUBTYPE of Mary Sue.

That means she's still a Mary Sue; which means you're WRONG in defending her.

>>14657770

>dirty commie still trying to force his analogy

>doesn't realize he exposed kerrigan defenders are commies

>>14657853

>kerrigan defenders are commies

I regret not closing this tab.

>>14657867

>so desperate for (you)'s he keeps the same tab open for hours on end

>>14657679

>subtype of a mary sue

>he can't use terminology correctly and uses a catch-all term when a more specific term is required that literally requires the opposite of conditions to be met for it

topkek

>>14658451

>being so desperate for some kind of win

Some people can't even lose gracefully, sad.

>>14657882

I enjoy sc2 and star citizen shitting threads

>>14658964

>>14659411

>can't refute what's being said

>just repeats what a tropes wiki says

topkek