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File: 95f60d60111a395⋯.png (487.47 KB, 575x513, 575:513, phat lewt.png)

582763 No.14637451

>game introduces naval units in expansion/sequel

>only ever uses them in campaign maps as a basic bitch showcase to the new feature

>you are lucky if modders use it in their scenario, but you can only dream about using them in a more standard meele matchup

a776c8 No.14637896

File: d73bf94c544524c⋯.png (726.07 KB, 1440x900, 8:5, AOK013.png)

File: 28c59774b3edc7a⋯.png (596.62 KB, 1440x900, 8:5, AOK012.png)

File: 48bcef5d01ebafa⋯.png (436.31 KB, 1440x900, 8:5, coastal defense.png)

File: dc8d1884490d4d0⋯.png (637.55 KB, 1440x900, 8:5, minoans.png)

File: a34a6f38e2d7b70⋯.png (615.09 KB, 1440x900, 8:5, siege of athens.png)

Play Age of Empires.


dc5a7d No.14637911

File: 5d042bad93fd284⋯.gif (520.12 KB, 500x452, 125:113, sanic_forever.gif)

>>14637451

>>14637896

>spam battleships/juggernauts

>A-move

>mfw GotC


86ee1c No.14637915

For some reason it seems like nobody likes boats in strategy games, be it real time or turn based. They always get the short end of the stick if they even get included at all.


a3a16d No.14637933

Boats are slow. There's usually always 2 boat options; fighter and carrier, meaning you always have to make multiple boats to protect your other boats. It's a huge resource and time sink. You have to plan your base/civs/etc, army and battle plans around using them. They're worthless unless you're on a map that requires them. If flying is an option then boats are useless.


c30e34 No.14637960

>>14637933

Having to use boats is always fun. The appeal is exactly in needing to plan resources around them.

>>14637896

This.


d6b3bb No.14637967

File: 4c8f5726773bc50⋯.jpg (55.13 KB, 449x403, 449:403, t09[1].jpg)

File: a332b2204f33749⋯.png (309.9 KB, 1552x406, 776:203, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 570e4b8cbab910b⋯.png (300.79 KB, 1546x388, 773:194, ClipboardImage.png)

Warcraft 2 has such sexy ships, and also the best OSTs of all time for a game with ships in it.


97cf84 No.14637995

>>14637933

>If flying is an option then boats are useless.

How would we make them useful despite flying unit option? My solution would be to make boats do more damage, better range, cost less and give the game powerful anti-air options.


582763 No.14638003

>>14637967

The Turtle in Warcraft 2 made me excited about Naval Combat in Total War Warhammer.

TW Empire had the best naval combat in gaming history and Warhammer could have had even better naval combat, because of sea creautures.

Empire is the only game in gaming history, which can simulate boarding at the same time with normal naval combat. Every single pirate game is unable to do that.


b65a9d No.14638033

>>14637967

Frig, I remember this, it was just beautiful. What happened to Blizzard? Where did everything go so wrong? How could they go from the beauty of a simple, pure race war into Trudeau tier "lol if you fight your enemies they win" cuckoldry?


a3a16d No.14638067

>>14638033

>What happened to Blizzard?

Soy.


582763 No.14638071

>>14638033

No king rules forever, my anon.


97cf84 No.14638084

>>14638033

Companies are just a name. Most of the people who made Blizzard great moved on long ago.


dc5a7d No.14638101

>>14637995

By having water-based resources that air units can't really interact with, or by having the naval units be key to expanding the reach of air units. Oil in WC2 was a step in the right direction, but they could've expanded on it in WC3 but failed to. Metagame will emerge around trying to control the seas to maximize air efficiency.

Kind of like real life navies.


07c774 No.14638147

>>14637995

by making boats be really strong, like in total annihilation


2838d9 No.14638200

>>14638084

This, if you want to track what'll be NOT shit you have to follow the actual people behind them. EA abuses the fuck out of this when they buy up popular studios. Once they have them they start shitting down their new victims neckholes until they leave so they can bring in shitass pajeets coders or whatever desperate fuckwit out of college is around. Then comes shitting out awful game after game until what you loved is dead and gone.

In blizzard's case I didn't track to well but mostly it got fucked over by it's own elite. Especially the fucking writers dear god. Think that faggot with the corruption/redemption story fetish is leading things. Well that and the SJW cuckening invaded and all know what shit comes from that. Most of the old guard either got pozzed or left in disgust leaving us with the mess of nuBlizzard.

Back on topic navies in RTS has always been wonky. Mainly because map balance, you're either making it dominated by water or land which influences everything. They just normally balance the land units and tack on the navy so things skew towards fucking boats over. Few games have done a proper navy because of this.


000000 No.14638237

>>14637451

Play Warcraft 2 if you want to enjoy actual naval combat.


582763 No.14638248

>>14638237

I did. I got ear cancer, because of the fucking dragons the orcs have.

Who the fuck thought that constant, overlapping unit responses with no delay was a good idea?

After finishing the orc campaign I didn't do the human campaign.


be6bdc No.14638250

Yeah, this was a big issue for me when WC3 came out, especially reign of chaos. Ocean-heavy maps were my favorite battles in WC2 and it was kinda lame seeing that completely demolished and replaced with the precursors to ASSFAGGOTS heroes.


582763 No.14638253

>>14638248

Oh, I also get triggered as fuck, whenever a movie uses the same stock sound. I watched one werewolf movie and I got immideatly thrown back to Warcraft 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J64c6YHJOaM


be6bdc No.14638295

File: a07cee213fb9979⋯.jpg (242.23 KB, 600x600, 1:1, a07cee213fb9979a9d3005891a….jpg)

>>14638253

>>14638248

>not loving the soliloquous war-song of the proud red dragonflight

>not screeching in draconic as your great flight of serpents burns the pinkskin scum to ash

faggots like you are everything wrong in the world


000000 No.14638305

>>14638250

They also removed the oil resource. In some regards WC3 was pretty fucking lame. They took out a lot of the fun stuff from WC2, to be honest. It's just that WC3 was interesting in its own way. Then WoW just fucked shit up right proper.

>>14638253

This game was released in 1995. I don't think there really were publicly available stock sounds at that time. You had sound effects designers working on this crap.


be6bdc No.14638351

>>14638305

dont get me wrong I loved WC3 but it took a while before I appreciated it, I was butthurt over the removal of sea units for a long time

I also kinda dislike WC3 magic, some spells were improved quite a bit (for example raise undead was literally useless and a waste of mana in WC2 so it was nice to see it used as something interesting, basically a bolster-force to your army) but overall magic felt alot less powerful and impactful than it did in WC2, nothing compares to setting up a bunch of wizards/DKs and spamming the shit out of blizzard and D&C until everything was DOUBLE DEAD, nothing in WC3 really has the same feel, even the ult spells for the heroes.


e0512a No.14638355

File: afa9cb1b75c0fd3⋯.gif (308.53 KB, 258x277, 258:277, 1463258371081.gif)

>>14637933

That's not the only or even the biggest issues with boats, though. The problem isn't even the boats, it's the area they operate in that's fundamentally worthless to fight for.

You don't have bases on water, so every ocean bit of the map is entirely optional. Making a fleet of boats to contest it is fundamentally pointless since you'll still need to make ground forces anyway and due to popcaps, every boat you make is a few soldiers you don't have on land contesting actual important territory.

Only way this ever changes is in Island maps, and even then you're better off shipping a few Builders\Villagers, setting up some barracks on the other island and reinforce by that.

There are a few games that try to solve this on their own. Supreme Commander for instance gives very large range to naval units and a T1 naval unit is as strong as a T2 land unit. They end up serving as support and long range artillery but they still require your oponent to being near their base.

Age of Mythology has trade routes by sea and fishing boats, both performing better than land trade routes and farms for their respective resources. This means having maritime superiority enables you to have a much better economy. Which is still a moot point since the pop cap is what ends up controlling your army, not your economy, and the extra popcap you get from not having to make as many villagers, you lose far more than it in your fleet to protect your boats.

The actual reason naval combat is so important is twofold: transport and economy, the second being a followup on the first.

Troops traveling by ground can take a fuckload of time to get anywhere. Put them in boats instead and they'll only take a fraction of the time, even if they still have to walk a bit after disembarking.

Towns and Cities do not share resources in a global pool like most RTS do, but instead they constantly trade what they produce with what they lack and since transportation is so much more efficient with boats than caravans (bigger and faster loads) the sea trade routes are the backbone of the economy for any large, sprawling empire.

So the only way to make boats actually usefull in RTS is to make incredibly huge maps that encourage using transports for fast transportation if you want to have a mobile army. Optionnaly, your troops come from population you recruit in towns, so you can't pop a Barrack in another island and crank infantry out of thin air. Instead, you have to train them in your base and reinforce the front by transports.

Additionnaly, towns should have local resources that they use locally and trade with simple automatic routes. The second a dock is available, maritime routes are created that you must protect. The more a town trades, the more prosperous it grows and the bigger it becomes, giving large empires an achilles heel that smaller players can exploit for comebacks in guerrilla warfares.

>>14637995

Give fuel to planes. Optionaly to every vehicle. Planes burn fuel a lot faster and thus have to return to base for a refill more often. They excell at surgical strikes in specific targets or to assist troops. Boats however last a lot longer out in the sea and therefore are the sustaining force of your army out there.

In terms of transports, boats should carry 5 times as many people as planes can, so they are used for mass transportation while planes are used to transport specialist units.


bfb576 No.14638425

>>14637915

>>14637896

>There's usually always 2 boat options

At least 3, resource gathering as in fishing boats and trade boats for gold from allies.

One aspect I liked about AoEIII was how some of the ships were multipupose. Combat, transport, fishing could be done by Caravel naval unit. While a Galleon can even train barrack units.


7069f3 No.14638538

>>14638033

>How could they go from the beauty of a simple, pure race war into Trudeau tier "lol if you fight your enemies they win" cuckoldry?

Metzen was the one who started this cuckoldry, ever since Blizzard put him in charge of the story (after Phinney left); the first and foremost being Brood War.

Before Brood War, the games were written by other staff members which aren't even writers to begin with. The original Starcraft was written mainly by James Phinney, the lead programmer.

It baffles me on how the lead programmer had much better understanding of writing and narrative cohesion than an actual fucking writer.


2a806f No.14638572

>>14638355

Total Annihilation, which was basically SupCom before SupCom, actually made a pretty good effort to fix the "no value to ocean territory" problem by giving you a remarkably good water structure selection, though the underwater metal extractors came in an expansion and the tidal generators were dependent on tide strength.


000000 No.14638617

>>14638538

Good programmers are rational people. Videogame writers on the other hand are frequently wankers about "muh narrative" and "this would be so cool" and shit.


2c8044 No.14639033

File: fbe2628ffe1068b⋯.jpeg (196.88 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, Empire Earth Air.jpeg)

File: 718a24cf4ce2393⋯.jpeg (91.15 KB, 800x600, 4:3, Empire Earth Sea.jpeg)

>>14637995

In Empire Earth airplanes had a limited range and had to return to an airfield after a while, and helicopters weren't that strong. Among the ships, meanwhile, you had battleships and ballistic subs, which dealt a lot of damage, cruisers, which were great anti-air units, regular subs, which were great against most ships, and frigates, as a less powerful but less specialized ship. Unlike airplanes, you could send ships anywhere (in the sea, that is) and leave them there for as long as you wanted, which made them functionally very different from airplanes. As a combination of these you had the aircraft carrier, but from them you could only launch fighter-bombers that were weaker than the airplanes that could be launched from the airfields.


cd6cff No.14639072

>>14638253

stock sounds either need to be done away with or significantly overhauled. we need a bunch of new stock sounds so we don't hear the same two audio files in every movie containing a puppy or children playing.

>you are now hearing the generic puppy whimper noise

>also the kids in a playground background noise

>crunchysplat3.wav

>cartoon running-start pitter patter

please god fix this


e3868b No.14639105

>>14639072

Laughtracks were recorded by people in the 1950s

You are listening to dead people laugh


ae2937 No.14639112

>>14637915

Play Supreme Commander/Total Annihilation/Spring


97cf84 No.14639151

>>14639112

Is Total Annihilation fun in Single Player?


cd6cff No.14639218

File: bf3d62bed88e8a1⋯.png (295.61 KB, 564x630, 94:105, Wienerface.png)

>>14639105

>puppy tracks are obviously more than 10 years old

>youre listening to dead dogs make innocent newborn noises

i actually dont care because i respect the dead people/dogs for somehow "surviving" and defying death by leaving impact on the world (in the form of shitty audio used by hacks/jews)

on one hand, you can become hitler/stalin and be forever recorded in history, or you could become stock-audio/stock-photos and defy entropy beyond your own demise. Your choice. the correct choice is clear


ae2937 No.14639234

>>14639151

Yeah, it's got a singleplayer campaign


bce117 No.14639253

>>14638425

>3

There are 8 ship types in AoE2, Fishing, Transport, Trade cog, Galleons, Demolition ships, Fast Fire ships, Cannon Galleons, and Unique civ ship ie korean turtles or viking longboats.

>Combat, transport, fishing could be done by Caravel naval unit. While a Galleon can even train barrack units.

Jesus Christ that sounds retarded, no wonder AoE3 was the worst in the series and everyone plays AoE2 at multiplayer instead.


cea7bc No.14639397

>>14638425

>>14639253

Actually I can see why that would make sense. Why shouldn't a ship of the line be able to carry units? Maybe fishing is a bit too much for game balance but there's no reason a caravel or galleon couldn't carry troops. AoE2 is still better obviously, but it always peeved me how the Longboats couldn't carry any units when that twas their primary purpose.


6d9b82 No.14639493

>>14637451

Sounds like you could benefit from some altered melee maps with naval combat. I'm sure Hiveworkshops has those somewhere.


582763 No.14640067

>>14638295

>>14638305

>>14639072

You don't understand. If you want to micro the dragons, which you have to do, because the campaign levels just give the AI dozens of towers, then you are going to constantly hear this fucking annoying squeaking.

It's so bad. because there is no delay and it even overlaps with the previously played sound effect. So you have a fucking cancerous ear cascade of the exact same sound effect.

And that's it. The Dragons only have this one single sound effect.


622d96 No.14640090

>Naval encounters in RPGs are just the ships pulling up to one another and exchanging volleys till one side is annihilated.

>no cross the T or being mobile

>no boarding

Waste of coding.


582763 No.14640106

>>14640090

Anon, did you know that not a single non-strategy game was ever capable of simulating boarding in the same dimension as normal naval combat?

You are always invincible, when you board, becuause the game has now idea how to both do good boarding and good naval combat, without seperating the gameplay of the two.

Now you realize that Empire Total War was able to do it without a sweat.


000000 No.14640118

>>14637451

Supreme Commander FA


582763 No.14640126

File: d36fe5046925fee⋯.jpg (45.98 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, warcraft 2 dragon.jpg)

>>14638295

>>not loving the soliloquous war-song of the proud red dragonflight

>red dragonflight

Anon, the Orcs used green dragons, get it right.

>inb4 they were painted green

>inb4 muh retcon trumps the original games


bc1c73 No.14640144

File: 9bfb4f91acc06c7⋯.png (390.9 KB, 1302x484, 651:242, Screenshot_2018-04-14_03-3….png)

>>14640126

Apparently they're red because of Alextrasza.

http://classic.battle.net/war2/units/dragon.shtml


582763 No.14640163

>>14640144

>I am out of arguments, but I read the books by Richard A. Knaak and I want my draenei waifu to be real and the dragons to be red

"No!"


bc1c73 No.14640173

>>14640163

I was never arguing with you, illiterate nigger. And i have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. I don't give a shit if the dragons are red or green. Go have an autism fit somewhere else. I'm just pointing out another one of blizzards inconsistencies and how much more ruined the game is because of retcons.


582763 No.14640178

File: c4140036bf6b16f⋯.png (480.95 KB, 542x464, 271:232, fragenarschie.png)

>>14640173

>Apparently they are red, because someone tells me so.

>shows me a picture as proof, which clearly shows them as being green and even says it so in the related text

>but they are red, because reasons


bc1c73 No.14640188

>>14640178

No they're obviously green dumbass look at the picture you posted. I'm showing you what they've done, it's not my own opinion, again you illiterate nigger. Are you brain damaged?


582763 No.14640192

>>14640188

>No they're obviously green dumbass look at the picture you posted.

Anon, I know they do.

The only question is, if YOU believe that Green can somehow be red, if an authority figure tells me to see green as red.

I am not brain damaged, anon. I see reality as it is. A Green Dragon is green.


68a407 No.14640194

HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.

Surprised nobody mentioned how fucked up Red Alert 3's Naval units were.


bc1c73 No.14640196


582763 No.14640229

>>14640196

>it's bad when blizzard does it

>but when a furry writer writes in his because of furious jerk-off sessions, cum-crusty book about how the Lizard People totally btfo not only the global demon invasion from hell, because "muh soviet rush tactics, the demons closed the portals, because they were afraid of us" "LOCKED IN HERE WITH ME" and completly fucking up the dunmer, having the game location of the third be completly destoryed, all the locations and people wiped out from there AND have the Lizard Peoplecompletly conquer all the rest of the Dark Elves, which was only recently reconned to leave a bit of room for an independent Dark Elf Kingdom.


aa229d No.14640248

File: 894f118616a7ff0⋯.jpg (384.91 KB, 1600x1200, 4:3, roman_quinquireme.jpg)

i'm actually pretty happy with the naval units in 0 a.d.

a few of them can actually take out a tower with minor losses, but at the same time they're not incredibly overpowered

meanwhile in aoe2 your galleys are essentially throwing toothpics at the towers and die within a few hits


0ab830 No.14640286

>>14640196

Don't mind the retarded german autist. You can't reason with them.


582763 No.14640309

File: c1fad322de7b5aa⋯.jpg (95.22 KB, 700x700, 1:1, not the guns fam.jpg)


ae2937 No.14640380

>>14640309

I 'unno about that. What's the Muslim population percentage up to now?


bc1c73 No.14640382

>>14640286

I know. Warcraft got seriously shit on especially in warcraft 2 with technology like submarines, and now robots and lasers and flying boats that aren't even magical. If the horde gets dragons and shit just give the humans some sort of sea monster for naval combat.

And this autist just wants to smear his shit on the board without having a real discussion. I can't even begin to make sense of this >>14640229


406a8c No.14640397

>>14640380

No idea but the rate of blacks is nearly zero too.


e0f65e No.14640405

Why is Rise of Nations so boring? I love the concept but the combat is uninteresting and unengaging and on the second highest difficulty the AI still doesn't pose a threat. Is Empire Earth any better?


83667d No.14640423

>>14640380

They don't get guns, the deal is they have a years conscription for all men and they take their assault rifle home. So not only do they get free guns they get a gun that only the super rich could dream of owning in the US, but not for immigrants because the military knows they can't be trusted.


582763 No.14640425

>>14640382

>And this autist just wants to smear his shit on the board without having a real discussion. I can't even begin to make sense of this >>14640229 (You)

Some author wrote an argonian-wank story and now it's canon in the Elder Scrolls Games.


3be450 No.14640431

>>14640397

>>14640380

Actually, they're higher and rising for both of them (there's some nog who plays in the official Swiss soccer team but whatever, the sport industries just use them because they're cheap, wash out in their late twenties and cost way less than whites) but the Swiss and (((the Swiss))) passed referendums and paid hefty fees to the (((EU))) to make sure niggers don't cross the border without the explicit permission of the Swiss government.


582763 No.14640452

>>14640431

Okay, I just misread what you said. I thought you said fines.

It's pretty pathetic to pay someone to hold away foreigners from you, because you are cucked to just tell them "NO!" yourself, when they demand free gibs in your country.

All these problems wouldn't exist, if they were just not given any gibs.


1411b5 No.14640468

>>14638355

The Anno games, sorta do these things you are describing, but they are more of a town-building than an RTS.


8135f7 No.14640533

No C&C: Red Alert? The Cruiser in that game can take down a weak building in a single volley from the longest range in the game, infantry will be killed instantly if it even touches them.


8398e7 No.14640694

>>14638147

They're strong but unfortunately drain your metal reserves very quickly, and are only of major use on maps with smaller islands that don't have serious limits to their reach in-land, or the Hydross planet ones where the alternative is seaplanes. A couple of mods add floating hovercraft platforms though I question the point since those are intended for mixed maps like Lusch.

Generally speaking the game heavily favours air units since they're so swarmable, have the automatic air repair pad if they patrol it, and work well as a defensive perimiter, and infinite ammo like all units (some games like Dark Reign and C&C Generals address this). The construction units can be swarmed in the same way to make buildings insanely fast.

>>14638572

TA had a bunch of different energy producers, with varying efficiency, and some based on the map. Geothermals are the most efficient for their cost, but are only placeable on thermal vents. Wind can be strong or weak, and isn't great to depend on. Tidal is slightly cheaper than solar and often performs as good if not better. Fusions are basically the end game option despite their expense, since they're often needing to be paired with the metal makers.

>>14639151

Make sure to at least install TA Bugfix, and a custom AI profile since the base game has plenty of questionable bugs, and the default AI is garbage.


2c8044 No.14640854

>>14640309

How does what Swissball is saying hurt Americans? "Guns themselves don't cause crime" is precisely what real Americans say.


fbb4e6 No.14640868

Boats in RTS or GS are usually time consuming, resource wastrels with very little practical value.




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