0473bc No.14606667
>shiren, tower of fortune
>7hours play time
>still level 1
Why don't more games have meaningful death systems where dying actually matters and isn't simply a 20second delay (restart screen)?
4012ad No.14606765
I don't want to restart a game I put 7 hours into, most people don't have that kind of time and tism. Did you even unlock anything after that long?
ea83fc No.14606773
>roguelike
>isn't ascii
That's a roguelite
0473bc No.14606822
>>14606773
> roguelite
made up term.
>ascii torture graphics
just read a book, it's more fun and healthy for you
0473bc No.14606824
>>14606775
are you afraid?
d9b384 No.14606837
>>14606775
>>14606773
yes, because every platformer must use 8-bit sprites like le mario, right?
retards
79b124 No.14606862
>>14606773
The Mystery Dungeon series was inspired by the game Rogue. The game is turn based and has randomly generated environments. The graphics are not relevant to the gameplay.
It's a roguelike.
0473bc No.14606864
>>14606765
>>14606765
wrong mindset. each run is potentially a fun challenge, like playing a platformer, I treat items like powerups….
learn to be detached and become like a monk, patience and deep prayer are needed
a6988e No.14606876
>>14606837
>Platformer
>Roguelike
Pick one reddit.
d9b384 No.14606888
>>14606876
>mfw I will never be this dumb
a6988e No.14606894
>>14606888
>Mfw I will never be so retarded that I think roguelike = Lol!Random generation
d9b384 No.14606902
>>14606894
Ok, point where in my post I stated that a platformer is a roguelike or vice versa. It's fine, I'll wait.
413de7 No.14606905
I'm going to try and get into the GearHead series for Linux, but want something a little more Gundam mecha inspired.
a6988e No.14606910
>>14606902
>Backpedaling already
OP was called out on his 'Roguelike' being a roguelite. You whined about how every platformer must use 8-bit sprites. A roguelike literally cannot be a platformer, as that's a Roguelite and has almost fucking nothing to do with Rogue.
74ca0c No.14606920
>>14606910
Nigger, he was making the comparison to point out that just as not all platformers have to be 8-bit, not all roguelikes have to use ascii.
>A roguelike literally cannot be a platformer
No one claimed that. Are you autistic?
4012ad No.14606924
>>14606905
I have a problem with Gearhead or at least Gearhead 2 where if you've been doing consistently well the game will suddenly pit you against a battle with mechs that can one shot you, like the reputation system in Elona where bandits become increasingly strong the more reputations you gained from quests. There's no way to decrease this attribute except accepting a bunch of quests then let them expire.
d9b384 No.14606926
>>14606910
>asking a person the reasoning for their claims is backpedaling
OP was wrongfully called out that his roguelike game isn't a roguelike because it doesn't have text art, not because of its gameplay. Using an analogy, I compared that retarded shit to saying a game couldn't be a platformer if it didn't use 8-bit graphics like the pioneers of the genre.
Never have I said a platformer game is also a roguelike.
Shiren is a top down turn based game like any other roguelike, if you're wondering.
413de7 No.14606928
>>14606924
Well shit, I don't want my dick punched in just for following quests.
3d2efe No.14606935
ADOM and DCSS both have graphical tiles instead of using terminal-style visuals, and are roguelikes. It's the rough gameplay style that matters. Castle of the Winds counts as well.
4012ad No.14606943
>>14606928
Yea it's the reason I dropped Gearhead 2 because even with savescumming you can only load when battles begin and not before you enter it. There's no way to scout their power before hand so far. A shame because it's the only roguelike mech game with autistic detail to both mecha and pilot battles.
Also Taunt is the best skill that let you win battles automatically occasionally where you bant the enemy so hard they ragequit and eject themselves, leaving behind a mint condition mech that can sell for good money even if it's a mediocre mech.
17a5c6 No.14606946
>>14606935
>Castle of the Winds counts as well
It doesn't even have permadeath
3d2efe No.14606954
>>14606946
So? Yeah it's a common feature of the genre but I don't buy that it's mandatory.
d9b384 No.14606964
>>14606946
I'm guessing it's kind of a divergent roguelike like Elona that doesn't have permadeath and has some non-random locations but otherwise plays and functions like a standard roguelike.
0473bc No.14606990
>>14606910
>OP was called out on his 'Roguelike' being a roguelite
>shiren is roguelite
that's incorrect though and a vague/meaningless term.
4012ad No.14607011
Oh wow fighting over genre semantic is sooo fun, not unlike talking about some niche game in the same vein that you like or anything.
a8c79d No.14607027
>>14606954
I think its necessary
2b77f2 No.14607086
>being so pedantic you have to argue about genre definition semantics instead of just posting games
ea83fc No.14607108
>>14606837
How is it like rogue if it isn't like rogue?
>because every platformer must use 8-bit sprites like le mario
No, they don't need to be limited by 8-bit computing, but they do need to be 2D. You can't have a 3D platformer, anyone saying anything to the contrary is delusional.
Similarly you can't have a roguelike that doesn't have all the elements of Rogue.
484338 No.14607112
>>14606773
That's not a requirement. Do you even play roguelikes?
484338 No.14607115
>>14606910
Damn you need to learn some reading comprehension
ea83fc No.14607116
>>14606935
>ADOM and DCSS
both garbage roguelites
0473bc No.14607124
>>14607116
dcss is one of the few roguelikes worth playing, most are garbage, specially when played in ascii
4012ad No.14607128
>>14607116
Alright it's obvious you're just perpetuating this. Who gives a shit nigger post some games.
82720c No.14607132
>>14607116
>both garbage roguelites
If Rogue Legacy is a roguelite how can you call ADOM and DCSS lites instead of likes?
3d2efe No.14607138
>>14607116
The only garbage is you for daring to peddle such obvious bullshit.
ea83fc No.14607142
>>14607124
DCSS is not worth playing, it's bloated, boring, and developed by a bunch of faggots. DCSS is the goto roguelite for casuals who want to pretend they are above roguelites and playing a real roguelike.
>>14607128
Angband
>>14607132
Rogue Legacy isn't even a roguelite, it's a platformer ARPG with quasi-perma death (though not really), tranny propaganda, boring abilities, boring weapons, and shitty uninteresting level generation. Go play a real ARPG or action platformer that doesn't pretend to be something it isn't.
4012ad No.14607152
>>14607142
Uhuh, and what do you like in Angband
0473bc No.14607153
>>14607142
>Angband
boring, but has nice flavor and 'lore', that's it.
dcss is simply superior in every way from design to difficulty, itemization and progression
dbaf14 No.14607164
>>14607011
blame retards who tried to push the berlin interpretation. That thing unironically has done way more harm than good to an already niche community
d9b384 No.14607165
>>14607108
http://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/3D+Platformer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:3D_platform_games
Not only 3D platformers exists, but 2D platformers can also have 3D graphics.
You need a game that PLAYS like Rogue, not one that LOOKS like Rogue.
>Similarly you can't have a roguelike that doesn't have all the elements of Rogue.
By your logic the only roguelike game is Rogue itself and arguably clones of it because no other game has every single exact element of it. It's like saying you can't have a platformer if there's no time limit on the levels or "question mark blocks" or other stupid shit from Mario.
ea83fc No.14607171
>>14607152
>what do you like about Angband
Unique enemies based on LotR lore with multiple Uniques to encounter in every floor range
Lots of interesting enemies without a floor just being bloated with samey shit
How turns are handled
Large floors without the bloat
Floors being generated again everytime you enter them, so even the same depth isn't always the same
A good selection of lore based classes without bloat (i.e. in DCSS the classes are mostly shit, and there's too many of them)
To name a few, anymore you would just have to experience, which you won't because Angband isn't a casualized roguelite.
>>14607153
t. casual
>>14607165
>they exist because people who agree with me say so
>posts screenshot of 2D gameplay that has 3D graphics as if that proves 3D platformers exist
>you need a game that plays like Rogue, not one that looks like Rogue
You need both for it to be a roguelike as how can it play like rogue when you have detailed graphics that don't require you identifying enemies etc. like in rogue? Ascii limiting the information the player has about certain things is part of the gameplay
dbaf14 No.14607175
>>14607171
what are you talking about, rogue doesn't limit the information at all graphically
ea83fc No.14607184
>>14607175
>obviously has never played rogue
dbaf14 No.14607186
>>14607184
>pretends to be an expert
>can't identify ASCII at a glance
ea83fc No.14607193
>>14607186
>>pretends to be an expert
>y-you claimed some things so y-you must think you know it all!
>>can't identify ASCII at a glance
>highlights his never playing rogue
0473bc No.14607201
>>14607171
>muh lore
ya, already stated the lore is the only thing nice about Angband.
>muh bloat muh bloat muh bloat
you mean depth? angband level design and risk/threat ranges are so bland. everything is bland and slow. I guess its good if you want an easy roguelite
d9b384 No.14607210
>>14607171
What genre is Mario 64 to you?
Posting a game with 2D gameplay with 3D graphics doesn't prove 3D platformers exists and was never meant to prove that, it was meant to prove that traditional platformers can have 3D graphics, that was something you implied was impossible.
And seeing an "O" gives you about the same information as seeing an "Orc sprite", you just know it's a monster and have no idea how strong it is until you fight it. Unlike potions and scrolls, the monsters are always the same capital letters of the monsters.
kys nigger
dbaf14 No.14607213
>>14607193
I don't even know what you're implying here. Are you saying that rogue isn't ASCII? because that's impressive
272260 No.14607214
>>14606943
eyes weigh 1.1 pounds wtf?
ea83fc No.14607221
>>14607201
>muh lore
Sorry that it's better than DCSS's shit
>angband
>easy
Confirmed never having played it
>>14607210
>What genre is Mario 64
A 3D collectathon with jumping
ea83fc No.14607224
>>14607213
>Are you saying this thing you obviously aren't saying?
Anon, are you retarded?
dbaf14 No.14607227
>>14607224
You didn't make a cohesive thought because you couldn't think of a reason why you aren't retarded, so I had to try to read between the lines
d9b384 No.14607233
>>14607221
>A 3D collectathon with jumping
peak retardation
Good job avoiding every line after the first one though, they were much more topical and important.
again, kys nigger,. You're grasping at straws that don't even exist.
763510 No.14607234
>>14607165
>You need a game that PLAYS like Rogue, not one that LOOKS like Rogue.
But Officer, she played like an 18 year old!
3d2efe No.14607238
Seriously, this is a QUALITY discussion.
ea83fc No.14607240
>>14607224
>says roguelites aren't roguelikes if they don't have ASCII
>hurr you think Rogue doesn't have ASCII
You are the obvious retard here.
>>14607233
>peak retardation
Mario 64 isn't even a good example to try and say there are 3D platformers when the game requires so little platforming an autist is doing the game with very little jumping
>Good job avoiding every line after the first one though, they were much more topical and important.
Thanks, it isn't hard when everything else wasn't necessary to respond to, because you failed right at the start.
>again, kys nigger,. You're grasping at straws that don't even exist.
You're just a booty bothered nintendrone who probably thinks Mario 64 is the best platformer ever and are mad that I would dare say it isn't even a platformer.
Compare it to Super Mario Bros. where platforming is the main element of the game. What's the main element of Mario 64? It certainly isn't platforming when most of the game can be done with so few jumps.
dbaf14 No.14607251
>>14607240
what about the greatest platformer. Bubsy 3D?
ea83fc No.14607252
>>14607251
Bubsy 3D isn't a platformer, and in fact it is barely even a game at all. It's an alpha state game released as a full game.
dbaf14 No.14607259
>>14607252
the ultimate game
ea83fc No.14607264
>>14607259
Interestingly enough Bubsy 3D's jumping code was used for Mario 64. The engine that Bubsy 3D uses was demonstrated to Nintendo prior to it being used in Bubsy 3D, and Nintendo directly stole parts of the code (and improved it.)
d9b384 No.14607356
>>14607240
>Still ignoring all that shit that proves you don't know shit about what you're talking about
>Wants to change the subject to consolewars shit because your talk about roguelikes and platformers is busted
That's weak shit, don't even bother trying. You're wasting everyone's time with these 4th grader level tactics.
>>14607276
Fucking roguelike threads are doomed from the start. Whenever videogame genres are topical it brings the biggest retards on the face of earth. See SmashBros threads, Metroidvanias, Open World games and any games that can be called "Souls-like".
c47a26 No.14607415
>>14606943
>mecha
Looks kinda cool, any more info you got on it?
ea83fc No.14607468
>>14607356
>That's weak shit, don't even bother trying. You're wasting everyone's time with these 4th grader level tactics.
>can't even refute a single argument
>cries about consolewars
Sorry that Mario 64 isn't in the genre you want to pretend that it is in. I'm not an advocate of watering down the meaning of genres for the sake of inclusiveness, which is what this boils down to. Mario 64 was a sequel to a platformer series that retained the jumping, lore, and trappings of previous entires in the series, but downplayed the platforming to the point that calling it a platformer is a disservice to the genre.
The main thing you do in Mario 64 isn't traverse through a series of stages where jumping is required. The main thing you do in Mario 64 is collect stars. It's a collectathon, and it pioneered the genre on the 64 as evidenced by the other "3D platformers" that also were about nothing but collecting shit.
2297ed No.14607490
I've given up on DCSS because I am tired of the faggot devs removing everything that people have fun with instead of improving the game. What should I try next? I have no preference on ascii vs tiles or other shit you are all arguing about.
d9b384 No.14607516
>>14607468
Nigga all that shit has nothing to do with roguelikes.
There's no argument to refute there because you didn't refute my arguments in the previous post yourself.
You brought consolewar shit to the discussion yourself with no reason at all.
And just because there's other way to get from most platforms to other platforms other than jumping, because of the extra manuevers possible throught the addition of an extra movement axis, doesn't mean there isn't platforming. And "No A-presses" is a meme run that can't be done by humans that requires shit like like pixel perfect inputs over the span of 12 hours, it's no parameter for playing the game normally.
The fact that you have to reach stars instead of goalposts is irrelevant, you reach something that ends the stage, other than 8red coins and 100coins stars you're basically just getting to the end of the levels and leaving them. You're focusing too much on the example that I gave and is ignoring all the other 3D platformers because Mario 64 has a gimmick you can focus on to distract from the fact that it plays just like a platformer but in 3D.
What about Crash Bandicoot?
I has linear levels , collecting stuff, in the form of breaking boxes, is entirely optional, the main objective is to reach the end of different separate stages rather than having free movement in a bigger, open-ended area.
I swear to god, if you call me a sonygger now…
ede492 No.14607523
Can you days just filter/report the obvious halter and move on? I'm trying to lurk this roguelike thread not get an earful of you trying to argue with some guy saying "3d collectathon with jumping" is a more apt description than platformer.
d9b384 No.14607532
>>14607523
At this point I'm just pressing further and seeing how far he can stretch his bullshit logic.
39eef6 No.14607647
Anyone here written a roguelike?
99b984 No.14607663
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
Only played the first shiren for the ds, awesome game. Explorers of sky is excellent if you're in the mood for some more casual and laid back dungeon exploran and the +6hr long soundtrack has so many great tunes to listen to. Been playing some elona+ lately as well but I'm not sure if that one is considered a roguelike.
Anyway, what are you fags arguing about?
4012ad No.14607812
>>14607164
Stop trying to one up with him, you're part of the problem too if you keep at it. We've had this same "discussion" years before, and he won't stop bickering about it in subsequent roguelike threads, for many years to come. It's already obvious it didn't matter what you say to him he'll just move the goal post and champion some other stupid shit.
>>14607214
Maybe she just have really strong neck to support her cyber eyes.
4012ad No.14607817
ce984b No.14607845
0050aa No.14607908
For rogue like threads there should be a definition of Roguelike in the OP so its not half a thread of retards incorrectly describing deff of a roguelike
>Permadeath
>Food System
>RPG mechanics
>No scaling on loot
39eef6 No.14607942
>>14607845
How is it? I downloaded it but haven't gotten to it yet
617c87 No.14607967
>Rougelikes
>Expecting anything good.
That's a pretty funny joke anon.
d9b384 No.14607978
>>14607812
Meh, I like when people make themsleves look like idiots. And boy oh boy with each post he sounded dumber and dumber.
I never rage at those or take them seriously, just point out how ridiculous their arguments are even as bait material.
It's also satisfying when they give up when they can't bend logic any longer, like a6988e, that I wouldn't be suprised if it was actually the same fag that changed his IP.
>>14607908
It's been tried, doesn't work.
Retards would shit it up saying OP is a fag for not saying it should need to be ASCII or turnbased or whatever.
0050aa No.14607982
>>14607978
Ascii fags are the worst
>I'm so hardcore because I can make out images out of characters.
<I am the hardest of cores.
ce984b No.14608022
>>14607942
It's really good.
bce45c No.14608037
>>14607663
>Anyway, what are you fags arguing about?
Step 1. Autists make several nice open-source games based on Rogue.
Step 2. Kikes who churn out garbage games start slapping the label "roguelike" on every kind of game they make to try to score extra shekels at the expense of the open-source games which have had years of autism poured into them.
Step 3. Autism volcano erupts.
End result: autists struggling to keep kikes from redefining a term. Righteous wrath versus typical tricks.
0050aa No.14608044
>>14608037
I have no idea where you see this, most roguelikes I've played are free.
Ones you buy like Unreal world, and Caves of Qud you can still get free.
I think you're thinking of rogueLITE, which then I would agree with.
7722c7 No.14608133
Wish we had lewd roguelikes, just going around fuging and fighting monsters
e8ba2c No.14608179
>>14607516
I didn't bother refuting arguments that had nothing to do with what I had said.
>And just because there's other way to get from most platforms to other platforms other than jumping, because of the extra manuevers possible throught the addition of an extra movement axis, doesn't mean there isn't platforming.
There is "platforming", but that doesn't make the game a platformer when the main gameplay isn't about platforming, it's about doing stupid barely thought out minigames to collect stars.
>The fact that you have to reach stars instead of goalposts is irrelevant, you reach something that ends the stage
It doesn't end the stage, the stage isn't done until you collect all the stars in which the majority have nothing to do with platforming.
>I has linear levels , collecting stuff, in the form of breaking boxes, is entirely optional, the main objective is to reach the end of different separate stages rather than having free movement in a bigger, open-ended area.
Crash Bandicoot is a platformer with a 3D asthetic, the gameplay is still 2D platforming, which is something Mario 64 doesn't have. Mario 64 has a handful of stars that you earn through "platforming", while the majority are through doing stupid mini games that have nothing to do with platforming.
Everything in Crash is achieved through platforming, even chase/riding levels involve jumps which is more than can be said for shit like the penguin race in mario 64.
>I swear to god, if you call me a sonygger now…
>sonygger
Why would I when you have clearly demonstrated that you worship Nintendo? That you even have this irrational fear about being labled a sonygger says quite a bit about you.
>>14607532
>i-i'm winning because I assert so
What's it like being so insecure?
3d6610 No.14608193
Cogmind is pretty fucking punishing, sometimes borderline unfair. I have played a ton of roguelikes, one of my favourite genres since forever, but spawning right next to two squads of the most annoying and destrcutive enemies in the game without giving you a chance to do anything to avoid combat is pretty horrible, specially if you are playing a fast/kiting run.
91c44a No.14608204
>>14608133
>that niggerface
Elves truly are disgusting.
626d37 No.14608313
Why /v/? Why does a thread about a specific video game have to turn into some autist arguing over whether or not x game fits into y genre because of what fucking graphics the game uses. How did one god damn autist manage to derail the discussion into some wierd hate boner over Mario 64 not being a platformer because 3D platformers can't exist.
d9b384 No.14608376
>>14608179
There you go again with another ID.
kys again, nigger, you're failing in every possible way in this thread
>>14608313
His retardation doesn't prevent people from discuss roguelikes, just hide his posts.
4df402 No.14608413
>All this autism and I can't even gather from this thread whether the game OP posted is actually fun or not
The absolute state of /v/. You niggers need to get a grip.
>>14607142
>DCSS is not worth playing, it's bloated
When the dev cuts existing features out of the game every update?
e8ba2c No.14608424
>>14608376
>another ID
I blame my jewsnet for that, it wasn't intentional.
>you're failing, though I can't say why
>j-just hide him anons
e8ba2c No.14608425
>>14608413
They cut the wrong things.
a6988e No.14608499
>>14606990
>Roguelite is meaningless
>So lets have every game with perma death and a bit of random generation be a roguelike
Do you know what Rogue is?
>>14606926
Oh, okay.
47530a No.14608574
>C:DDA
>Reach refugee center, have plenty of food, power and resources
>spot a nearby regional school full of zombie kids
>I got an idea
>Forge myself a sweet plate armor, gauntlets, buckler and zweihänder i wanted to also give plate armor to 2 of my followers but but that would take over 5 days to just make equipment for them
>inb4 tileset
Webm related is what followed
3d6610 No.14608737
>>14608574
Suggest a run for me, anon. I'm tired of sucking dick at C:DDA.
e0732e No.14608759
>>14608574
Speaking of schools, I've never figured out how to get OUT of one when you pick them as a start location. How many fucking kids are there in these future schools per class? 100?
47530a No.14608779
>>14608737
Damn, i have no idea
How about building a self reliant deathmobile? Thats one of my future goals for my current camain
Im also trying to do the main quests so maybe you could try those too? NPC AI suck hard tho so they are not as fun as they should be
Maybe try a cyborg run with as man CBMs installed as possible? That might be fun too
47530a No.14608785
>>14608759
>Speaking of schools, I've never figured out how to get OUT of one
Smash nearby window and just RUN
You should outrun the zombies eventually, maybe take a "quick" perk at the character creation
Also schools are great way of getting all the books you need but raiding one is a tough job, mid game at least
1378b8 No.14608794
>>14606943
>Gearhead
My nigger.
I thought no one on /v/ knew about this gem.
It's so fun capturing a few Thors for your squad, strapping additional armor on them after several tries because you didn't leveled Mecha Engineering like a scrub, and then giving them nuclear warhead launchers from the salvaged bombers. Nuking swarms of enemies is so refreshing after you get your ass handed to you on a platter because you prefer just to pilot a Zaku knockoff (the BuruBuru cannon fodder).
Also the dev is making a new gearhead game with better animations and UI.
Too bad he is a left-leaning fag, judging by his social media profiles.
bce45c No.14608797
>>14608751
Nigger, you just walked past eighty posts of people bitching about the definition of "Roguelike" and posted a paragraph about a game calling itself "The Roguelite Action RPG". What the fuck is wrong with you?
eed9ca No.14608815
>>14607238
You almost can't tell that KC went down a few days ago.
1ead21 No.14608827
>Make death matter
THIS
Rogue Legacy is fantastic. Amazeballs
Every time you die, you make a child with inherited genetic traits. Every play is different and each death makes your bloodline stronger and stronger
bce45c No.14608834
>>14608827
7/10 bait. Not even goons are big enough faggots to say something retarded like "amazeballs".
47530a No.14608835
>>14608815
>few days ago
It has been over a week now
1ead21 No.14608865
>>14608846
>land war in Asia
Define Asia.
Are you going by continental geography, or arbitrary social boundaries established by (((them)))?
bce45c No.14608891
>>14608846
>going to an autism convention to bitch about autism
Consider reevaluating your life decisions.
39421b No.14608901
>>14608891
So what? Every thread should just devolve into semantics and no fun allowed because le /v/ has autism?
bce45c No.14608917
>>14608901
Should they? No. Will they? Yes. Why? Because kikes aren't going to let up on the "hey this game is totally a roguelike" assault until Israel gets nuked. Or until /v/ gets competent mods, whichever happens first.
e8ba2c No.14608941
>>14608901
>saying a game doesn't belong in X genre means you hate said game
>means no fun allow
Why are some of you faggots so sensitive? Like that faggot above who thought calling Mario 64 anything but a platformer means that I hate it. You don't belong here if you are that fucking sensitive, change your tampon, take some midol, and dry those tears.
39421b No.14609100
>>14608941
I don't care about your opinion on the game, I care that almost no one in the thread is talking about the game and is fucking on menial bullshit that doesn't matter like its genre.
69850f No.14609196
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>why don't devs make good games that appeal to us anymore?
Because the only thing that seems to appeal to /v/ is autistic shitflinging. The only way to do something similar to this, and to stay relevant on topic, would be the following:
Make a roguelike. Your character always has terrible stats, but it's not like it matters, your class is an ideology you choose when creating your character.
There are no monsters, only other "players" like you on the map.
When you attack them, you just say an "argument" to them, causing Ego Damage and giving you the odds of changing his opinion.
If you attack someone of the same class (ideology), you instead say an "agreement" and restore Ego Points both to you and him, plus you're told the odds of changing opinion are now lower for you both.
It's pointless because everyone has infinite Ego Points and the odds of changing their opinion is just a random number between 1 and 99, nobody ever changes opinion.
You don't go down or up, you always stay in the same level, but more and more autists show up from the stairs, each "engaging" each other in heated debates about pointless shit, trying to cause Ego Damage to someone with infinite Ego and changing an opinion that's never gonna change.
The only items are dildos. You can equip them in your ass or not, that's it.
You never win the game, because there's no winning with autists, and you only lose if you close the game or if your character starves, which he will since there's no food on the level. Since the game is never saved, that counts as pemadeath as well so for all intents and purposes this would be an actual roguelike and the only way you could critique this game would be to take a really long and hard look at how you spend your time autistically shitposting about games you don't like instead of talking strictly about the good shit you do like and letting everything else die off since it gets no attention.
bce45c No.14609221
>>14609196
I think what would appeal to /v/ would be a thread about roguelikes that didn't end up infested with shills for Castlevania clones. Can't say for sure, because nothing like that will happen anytime soon.
bce45c No.14609241
>>14609221
I mean there was pages and pages and PAGES of arguing about what exactly constitutes a roguelike, and some faggot STILL showed up shilling a "roguelite".
Like I said, either better moderation or Israel getting nuked. Until then, the war continues.
fde54b No.14609268
>Well I think mario kart is a roguelike, and I'd like to talk about it in this thread in particular. What? you don't want me to talk about mario kart here? that's fucking semantics, NO FUN ALLOWED WHY DO YOU HATE MARIO KART
69850f No.14609272
>>14609221
>>14609241
>implying it matters
Here's a good suggestion: what about NOT replying to those people? What about when someone mentions a game that you don't like, you don't quote him and debate his opinion?
Maybe if someone posted instead a game that fits whatever definition you're championing and someone else replies and starts a discussion from there, the previous game is forgotten and stays at a single post in a thread and never mentioned in the next ones?
Maybe if topics where discussed based on their merit instead of how personally controversial they are, these threads would be 300 posts of nothing but good discussion, recommendations, help with builds and the like?
>either better moderation or Israel getting nuked
Yes, either have someone else come moderate our behaviour because we aren't big boys and can't handle shit we don't agree with or something something jews because I misclicked /v/ and I actually wanted to press /pol/ instead. Both options very topical to a roguelike thread indeed.
That does indeed sound like a much superior option: let's all play Rogue, only Rogue, nothing else but Rogue and do it for eons while keeping these threads up just to discuss how something else isn't like Rogue. I mean, that's why you opened this thread right? To see what new roguelike was out there and how it's not like Rogue at all? Can't let that shit fly after all.
1ead21 No.14609283
>INT+WIS: Affinity stat. Affects maximum MP
>INT+CHA: Ego stat. Affects MP cost.
>WIS+CHA: Willpower stat. Affects MP regen
69850f No.14609309
>>14609283
Secondary stats with a single use are a bit pointless. You might as well say that your maximum MP is given by your Int and Wis, for instance, even if you had items to boost that secondary stat.
What you can do instead is use it for more things.
Affinity increases the magnitude of spells and the effect of magicaly items.
Ego helps with bartering goods and plays a role in recruiting characters\diplomacy.
Willpower gives you resistance to magical effects and counts double for mental defense.
This way you can have something like a ring that boosts Int by 5 or another that boosts Affinity by 10.
The first one translates to 5 bonus in Affinity and Ego while the second is instead 10 Affinity instead, giving you the option to specialize on a stat or go with a more generalized approach.
bce45c No.14609334
>>14609272
>just ignore cancer, goyim
>>>/intl/
You have to go back
0473bc No.14609393
look here you dumb spergs, this thread was supposed to be about death mechanics in general, being improved via inspiration from roguelikes, not about the definition of roguelikes vs roguelites or ascii shit
0473bc No.14609396
also shiren on vita is a great game
recommend
5/5 stars
1ead21 No.14609400
>>14609309
I didn't mean to imply they were related. Each combination could have a named secondary state.
Also, each combination has a different method to use your casting resource to do a thing
bce45c No.14609433
>>14609393
>this thread was supposed to be about death mechanics in general
>thread subject is "roguelikes"
e8ba2c No.14609443
>>14609100
>thread is about roguelikes
>wah why aren't we all just talking about the one "roguelike" in the op
4012ad No.14609576
>>14608574
Huh, full plate set aint half bad I guess. I thought the insane speed reduction wouldn't be worth it but that staying power is amazing.
4012ad No.14609579
>>14609393
Shouldn't have named it like that, shit attract flies
4012ad No.14609591
>>14608941
Abrasion works both way nigger, you act irritating and we'll call you out on it, don't expect people to just roll over and take your shit.
d83eeb No.14609615
>>14606822
>Not running ASCII through the best tileset in the world: your imagination
MILLENNIALS OUT
e8ba2c No.14609652
>>14609591
>don't expect people to just roll over and take your shit
That is exactly what I expect. In particular when they are crying because I don't roll over and take their shit.
4012ad No.14609717
>>14609652
>A thread slider "not taking anyone's shit"
LOL
Your kind revel in endless argument like it's a proving ground to you because that's the only thing that you can get a tingle out of. That's all there is to it, don't try to act like a victim.
e8ba2c No.14609773
>>14609717
>thread slider
I saged my shitpost, I'm the one who started the whole argument and the main reason this thread wasn't at the bottom of the catalog forgotten under a wave of complete shit like usual.
47530a No.14610732
>>14609576
Full set tailored to you (when you forge it yourself it fits you) is only 10 encumbrance with is ridiculously low for a set of Plate armor, it might be a bug or something
47530a No.14610760
488398 No.14611896
>>14606667
OP you are not only a fag
but you don´t even know what a rogue like is nor you seem to understand the charm of ASCII now fuck off back to reddit and get gassed
488398 No.14611911
>>14607184
Just because you can´t understand Ascii doesn´t mean anybody else can´t either
if you play for enough time and don´t drop the game like a little bitch for some casual normalfag-tier garbage game like PUBG you end up getting used to it and able to identify stuff at a glance
69850f No.14612011
>>14609334
>if we feed them attention, it will go away!
>>>/reddit/
Oldest rule in the internet, "don't feed the troll", and you faggots still don't understand it.
>>14609773
>I stuffed my poo in a bag, so you can't complain I left it in public
>if it wasn't for me shitting the place up, nobody would come here!
You're not doing anyone a service, you're just being an attention whore because you'd rather debate your own point of view than the topic at hand.
>>14608574
I've been meaning to try CDDA but the spawn mechanic for zombies really screws with me and I have no idea why it should work as it does.
Last I checked, there were two modes. The first one had static spawns where every zombie was generated when the world was created, so every city was an hive full of hordes, but if you killed them, there would be no more in that place anymore.
The second option, dynamic spawns, would create zombies as the game progressed, but the longer you stuck to some place, the more zombies would be there and they'd basically show up out of thin air in any spot you weren't looking at.
The last one was especially bad since making noise doesn't just atract nearby zombies, it actually CREATES new ones nearby that "heard" you.
The few last times I played where horrible since breaking windows would create zombies, butchering them would create zombies, using anything but melee weapons would summon create zombies and despite the map starting empty, I'd end up with a severe kill count before I could leave the map, which wouldn't happen anyway considering I'd always be surrounded.
Why can't there be a middleground between both types? A bunch of zombies start in each location but every day more come in and noise only atracts zombies that already exist instead of spawning more?
Because other than that, the game seemed pretty cool, with the Focus mechanic and car building being pretty good mechanics.
47530a No.14612134
>>14612011
I always play with first mode, static spawn, first of all it helps the roleplay secondly it makes sense.
If you want something in between maybe you should enable wandering hordes, didnt tested it tho so i dont know how exactly they work
cdb756 No.14612156
>everything in this thread
it appears the cuckchan is terminal
158ea2 No.14612211
you're all forgetting the best Rogue-like
69850f No.14612230
>>14612134
Thanks, guess I'll give it a shot again, see if I can get my innawoods feel or become a horrible mutant.
Hopefully wandering hordes doesn't ruin the whole thing but just keeps the game interesting.
>>14612156
>I go to threads specifically to complain about their quality while contributing nothing to it.
Funny theory: a dude comes and shitposts as hard as a deli in india, then changes IP and complains about the shitposting, suggesting things like changing board or dropping the site entirely.
If it's still happening, then it hasn't been successfull so far. Keep pushing this and more people will see the goal behind posts like this.
cdb756 No.14612281
>>14612230
or you know, people walk in into this thread expecting to talk about roguelikes and all they see is derail and a bunch of cunts arguing that semantics in a purely semantic issue are not important
and youre being played by derailing and falseflagging like a damn fiddle, attacking anons with legitimate greviances
69850f No.14612515
>>14612281
> people walk in into this thread expecting to talk about roguelikes
Which is why every single person debating semantics doesn't even say anything about any roguelike, their entire post is about the semantic discussion or the quality of the thread instead.
>all they see is derail
Done by the cunts that want to argue semantics instead of games.
>a purely semantic issue are not important
Roguelikes are not a semantic issue, which was the topic of discussion until someone decided it was more fun to argue semantics instead.
>anons with legitimate greviances
Anons with legitimate grivances would talk about roguelikes instead of adding another shitpost to the pile.
e8ba2c No.14612563
>>14612515
>argue semantics instead of games
>implying the semantics aren't about the games
Do you always bend over backwards to be such a wrong, salty, cunt?
hmm…
>>14612011
…well yes, yes I guess you do
cee66d No.14612587
Since when does a Jap use a shield?
e8ba2c No.14612609
>>14612587
>Since when does a Jap use a shield?
Since they learned that the samurai way of being the one to strike first ended with the guy who struck last nuking two of their cities.
69850f No.14612756
>>14612563
Who said anything about the semantics not being about the games? But that doesn't mean it's still on topic.
You might as well go to a random thread here and post porn about the characters, claiming it's still topical since the porn is about the characters.
>>14612587
I guess since westerners started using katanas.
4a2f2c No.14612813
>>14607908
I'd be fine with this, it's worthless talking about roguelikes around these niggers that think anything goes, at least it's something.
d84470 No.14613020
>>14606910
Where are these fucking illiterate niggers? At this point I think he's realized that he's retarded and is just doubling down.
e8ba2c No.14613023
>>14612756
>But that doesn't mean it's still on topic
When the topic is 'Roguelikes' and the game featured is decidedly not a Roguelike, it is on topic to bitch about the misuse of the term.
11eea2 No.14613131
Binding of Isaac is objectively the best roguelike.
4012ad No.14613193
>>14613131
I agree fellow rogueliker!
4012ad No.14613224
>>14610732
>full set of plates is more comfortable "survivor" rags
Post your encumbrance stats? I dont even have a knee armor and my shit is horrifically encumbered, pic related.
47530a No.14613520
>>14613224
Bear in mind that i tailored my equipment specifically for this mission.
Normally my encumberance is around 40 thanks to duffel bag, but i try to keep it low since i have a melee focused character
830f66 No.14613540
47530a No.14613551
Since there are a few people playing C:DDA itt, do you guys have an idea where to get a A7 Laser Rifle?
e8ba2c No.14613571
>>14613561
For clarification on my opinion, I don't think the ability to use tiles renders the game not a roguelike. As long as the option for ascii exists that is.
258147 No.14613588
>>14613540
<Oh no a video game has pictures and I'm a huge faggot and gotta let everyone know
4012ad No.14613791
>>14613551
Military bunker I assume. Though I only found a megaman arm in the lab bunker.
4012ad No.14613795
>>14613520
That's fucking crazy, yea I tailor my shit but it didn't help much.
b36f8f No.14613833
Why the fuck were my posts deleted, all I did was suggest a game then tell people to stop bickering about the fucking definition of a game. Fucking neck yourself janny.
b36f8f No.14613851
>>14613833
Actually seems the only deletions by IP have been done by Mark, neck yourself you portly hebrew.
47530a No.14615504
>>14613795
I wonder how did your get your encumbrance so high
Can you post your inventory screen?
6be4a6 No.14615644
47530a No.14615875
>>14608133
>Wish we had lewd roguelikes
lewdest labyrinth
154f75 No.14615914
>>14606910
>All those responses
Boy, you really fucked up this time anon.
66d79c No.14616027
>>14606910
>OP was called out on his 'Roguelike' being a roguelite.
ya and that's wrong. Shinren is more of a roguelike than shit like Agband which is unplayable garbage.
e8ba2c No.14616047
>>14616027
>Shinren is more of a roguelike than shit like Agband
>unplayable garbage
<the actual roguelike is unplayable, but my roguelite is an actual roguelike
This is why this shit has to be called out.
526688 No.14616066
>>14613571
>if it doesn't have ascii graphics it's not a roguelike
What?
1477a2 No.14616076
Hmm, I might be screwed. While 100% electric resistance is nice, not being able to sleep due to being in light sucks very much
e8ba2c No.14616080
>>14616066
>rogue
>like
>like
>rogue
1477a2 No.14616086
>>14616076
and I'm dead. Easy come, easy go, etc.
526688 No.14616087
>>14616080
>rogue
>like
not
>rogue
>exact
4eeb83 No.14616094
>>14607240
>>14607468
>>14608179
>Mario 64 isn't mainly a platformer, it's a collectathon
>not knowing pannenkoek holds down A to do kick jumps
Are you just pretending to be retarded?
e8ba2c No.14616106
>>14616087
>not rogue exact
Right! Very correct, anon. That's why so many roguelikes don't have the exact same everything as Rogue. They are just like it, which includes same gameplay elements and same visual representation.
Go be retarded somewhere else.
e8ba2c No.14616111
>>14616094
<SMB: jumping is used to complete the entire game
<SM64: jumping is used to collect 1/3rd of the stars
>SUPER MARIO 64 IS A PLATFORMER! HOW DARE YOU CALL MY MINIGAME COLLECTATHON HAILED AS THE BEST PLATFORMER EVAR NOT A PLATFORMER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
ad4c28 No.14616115
>>14616047
>roguelite
there's that meaningless term again
ascii doesn't make a "genre" its just a graphical defect
526688 No.14616131
>>14616106
>That's why so many roguelikes don't have the exact same everything as Rogue
This is the most intelligent thing you've posted. How will you fuck it up
>They are just like it, which includes same gameplay elements and same visual representation.
See, it CAN include things like visuals but video game genres are defined by gameplay not aesthetics. So visuals don't matter if you're talking about a game defined by it's procedural generation, permadeath, item discovery, and food systems.
If you were debating the merits of real time vs Turn Based for the roguelike definition you could actually do that with some grounding, but you're caught up whether the game runs in a terminal or not to have anything resembling a salient point.
>Go be retarded somewhere else.
I just got here, you've been at this for days on your own. That's the funny part. But it wouldn't be a roguelike thread without some autist shitflinging for days on end now would it. Then it would just be a roguelite thread.
4eeb83 No.14616156
>>14616111
>SUPER MARIO 64 IS A PLATFORMER! HOW DARE YOU CALL MY MINIGAME COLLECTATHON HAILED AS THE BEST PLATFORMER EVAR NOT A PLATFORMER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
So you admit you're pretending to be retarded? Wow you sure trolled me.
47530a No.14616222
>>14616076
>might_be_screwed
1477a2 No.14616228
>>14616222
I'm not very good at coming up with file names, sorry.
47530a No.14616231
>>14616228
Sorry for what?
That was really good pun
b1eea8 No.14616863
>>14613561
Yes thanks, it's a very pretty game without those low effort graphics applied
7722c7 No.14616950
File: bd291a2bbb7fe74⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 200.85 KB, 1200x704, 75:44, 705e32c2-6642-4fac-9b01-04….jpg)
39421b No.14616996
>>14616950
>futa
>those meat flaps
>that gaping asshole
6be4a6 No.14617158
>>14616950
You are a scholar, a gentleman and a degenerate. Thank you.
4012ad No.14617343
>>14615504
This is without arm and leg armor, also keep in mind I'm mutated with giant body so it drives up each body part to 7 points encumbrance
cdb756 No.14617374
>>14613224
nigger are you for real, all these mutations influence encumberance
4012ad No.14617744
>>14617374
I get the purple trait would bog you down but those beneficial ones too? I don't remember what most mutations do.
303c2b No.14618620
Found this in my "roguelike" folder:
Roguelites a shit. This is every single roguelite game:
You play as a bag of shit tumbling down a steep set of very long stairs. When you run out of shit, you're dead as fuck, and have to start from the top. You have some control over your shit, but ultimately, you just have too little shit to give, and you spill your shit way too easily. So, in reality, you cannot get to the bottom on the first try, no matter how good you are keeping your shit in - because you start the game with too molested and loose-mouthed shitbag by design.
And quess how this horrendous game design is fixed? Wait for it…
Not actually fixing it at all. Instead, devs use all of their time and effort to cover it up, so that this shit design is harder to notice. The player has to be skinnerboxed so hard that it never even realizes what is happening. The roguelite design is successful only if the players brain is overwhelmed by random dopamine spikes so completely, that it's struggling to maintain basic logical thinking.
This coverup is where you get all the usual gameplay mechanics from: Upgrades that make you spill a little less shit on every step, gradually increasing shit holding capacity, maybe you can even scoop up some of the old spilled shit, and of course, if you fail enough times, the steps are secretly a little less steep next time. And don't forget that everything needs to be as randomized as possible, so you can always blame luck for losing your shit, and not the allpowerful shit heap that is in the core of roguelite game shitdesign.
Finally, after grinding a huge shitload of upgrades, you get to the absolute bottom, not by getting better at the game, but by spilling shit like a moron, and in exchange, being given more and more training wheels - Like some kind of gargantually obese shitfilled retard that needs to be dragged across the finishline by multiple industrial powerwinches, all while drooling and holding a confused half-smile, teary eyes fixed on the cheering virtual audience. At this point the brain has given in to the random dopamine torture and is firing every last fucking neuron to make sure this happens again, no matter the amount of shit this sad fucker needs to go through in the future.
But it's not all shit, because in the end, when you stumble down the last stair with your cornucopia of different training wheels, you are greeted with a text box that is totally ironically in comic sans, and it says:
"Support us on shitstarter, shitbook, shitgogo, shittch, shittube and shitreon. Links to our new unfinished games donation pages have already been sent to all of your friends social media accounts (allowed by EULA). Don't forget, MAKING THIS GAME WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE WITHOUT YOUR SUPPORT."
"Oh, and good job beating the game! You stumbled down to the lowest point possible, without spilling all your shit on the way! You are now the greatest shitspilling shitbag in the bottom of the shitstained stairs. Remember to give us more money in the future, you absolutely hopeless fucking tool."
TL;DR: In a word - shit.
If you are more interested in mobile game design, just replace "shit" with "cash" and "roguelite" with "mobile" - just try it, the description is even more accurate that way.
303c2b No.14618650
>>14618620
Should have saged, fuck.
c52d58 No.14618655
>>14618620
I agree with this completely, its how I feel about FTL and Darkest Dungeon.
It keeps easier as you it doesn't get more entertaining, you feel like your managing something entirely unrewarding vs. an actual roguelike where progressing gives you more ways to play, challenge only increases and the huge investment to get to that point and always pay attention to things for hours or days.
39421b No.14618669
>>14618620
counter point, the binding of isaac.
cdb756 No.14618680
>>14613224
you couldnt think of a shittier example lad
ed3d20 No.14618695
>>14618620
Yep. Roguelites are an exercise in diminishing returns. It's absolutely fucking tedious and I have no idea how people can justify this shit. It's a constant cycle of crossing exceedingly longer and longer bridges just to reach the little treat on the other side. It's fucking garbage.
7a3c4c No.14618698
>>14606775
rougelike is the future!>>14608037
you die. you die=
rougelike
>>no kikes
526688 No.14619074
e8ba2c No.14620748
>>14616156
>your unpopular truthful opinion is you trolling me
>>14616131
>See, it CAN include things like visuals but video game genres are defined by gameplay not aesthetics. So visuals don't matter if you're talking about a game defined by it's procedural generation, permadeath, item discovery, and food systems.
The absence of one trait makes it less like Rogue, correct? A little less to it, maybe? A little bit lite, per se?
cdb756 No.14620821
>>14620794
>Roguelites are literally roguelikes but with different gameplay, as in hack/slash
real-time is not tick based therefore not roguelike
>puzzle
no combat therefore not roguelike
>fps
movement not based on a grid therefore not roguelike
>or whatever.
not like rogue therefore not roguelike
e8ba2c No.14620895
>>14620808
>stop saying things I don't like
>everyone thinks ur dumb like me
>>14620830
>hey guise lets water the meaning down so my favorite game of the week can qualify
cdb756 No.14620995
>>14620922
supremely shitty opinions would be my guess
intentional derail is against the rules around here, if you dont like it go back to cuckchan
626d37 No.14620996
>>14620748
Why have you spent literal days shitposting about not roguelikes that don't follow the exact (non)graphical style of Rogue when you could have easily just said that Shiren isn't a roguelike because the game doesn't completely end upon death (which is actually how Shiren DS2 works)? Like how autistic do you have to be to continue to treat ASCII graphics like some sort of integral part of Rogue when genre are defined by mechanics and not appearance.
Why waste time arguing from such a stupid position for literal days do you get off on being called a retard or something?
e8ba2c No.14621009
>>14620996
>Like how autistic do you have to be to continue to treat ASCII graphics like some sort of integral part of Rogue when genre are defined by mechanics and not appearance.
Why is it necessary to label a game a roguelike? Is it because that if it gets called a roguelite it hurts your feelings?
>Why waste time arguing from such a stupid position for literal days do you get off on being called a retard or something?
>u got no life or sumthin
Sorry that my WPM isn't 5?
cdb756 No.14621010
>>14620996
he's rusing you retard
its a le ebin parody of those dum dums that argue that genres should be well defined
also abscense of permadeath is not an exclusionary factor, Shiren the Wanderer is a legit roguelike as are Elona and ZHP
8554b8 No.14621019
>>14620922
WTF Mark. Pay closer attention, please.
>>14620995
>intentional derail is against the rules around here
Meanwhile Mr. "Roguelikes need ASCII art" and "Mario 64 isn't a 3D plaftormer beacuse you don't need to jump" and "Crash Bandicoot is a 2D platformer with 3D aestetic" gets a free pass.
In my post I said roguelites were like roguelikes BUT with different gameplay, that's why they're not called roguelikes. I never said roguelites were the exact same thing as roguelikes.
>>14621010
Shiren doesn't have permadeath per se, but if I'm not mistaken its like Pokémon Mistery dungeon where you lose all your stats and items if you die. So mechanically it works exactly like permadeath, you just keep story progress and area access that is kept outside of dungeons.
626d37 No.14621024
>>14621010
All I'm saying is that he could have easily have chosen to argue from a more sensible position then going full retard like if you're playing Russian roullette I'd imagine you'd take the revolver with five chambers empty as opposed to just one right?
Maybe I'm the retard for believing that a man wouldn't spend days shitposting the same thread for a meager trickle of (you)'s
cdb756 No.14621074
>>14621019
Mr. "Roguelikes need ASCII art" is derailing the thread for a while now and deserves a deep refreshing breath of chlorine.
>>14621024
Hes not arguing in good faith, what he does is RPing the ebin strawman of a roguelike autist to evade the wrath of those mods that may not know shit about roguelikes. Hes both skirting AND falseflagging at the same time, because thats the go to method to get around rule 8.
e8ba2c No.14621080
>>14621019
>Mr. "Roguelikes need ASCII"
At least as an option, and that's on topic FYI.
>Mario 64 isn't a 3D plaftormer because you don't need to jump
I said that 2/3rds of the game has nothing to do with platforming. It's like arguing that Link's Awakening is a platformer because it has the Roc's feather and that it's a sidescroller because it has a few sidescrolling screens in dungeons.
e8ba2c No.14621089
>>14621074
>>14621024
What exactly have you two faggots contributed besides bitching about my defense of genre integrity?
626d37 No.14621116
>>14621074
"Genre integrity" aside I do think there is a bit a difference between a hard reset on death and just resetting the character's gear and equipment, especially if the character can possibly store useful equipment in town.
Also is the Wii/PS2 remake of Baroque any good?
cdb756 No.14621144
>>14621116
Thats fine and all but permadeath is a primary characteristic of rogueLITES, not rogueLIKES.
Permadeath is a secondary characteristic at most for roguelikes.
Its kinda like smut in VNs, its a staple, but not a defining trait.
e8ba2c No.14621157
>>14621144
>permadeath isn't a primary characteristic of roguelikes
Let's just water the genre down a bit more, eh?
626d37 No.14621209
>>14621144
Fair enough but I feel that may water things down a bit. Although I would have trouble classifying Elona as a straight up roguelike even if some of the elements are there. That game feels like a bizarre open ended rpg built upon rogue mechanics.
That said I always had trouble getting into the Mystery Dungeon games though the first game I had tried was Etrian Odyssey Mystery Dungeon
8554b8 No.14621275
>>14621209
Maybe the same way adding permadeath to a game doesn't make them roguelikes, removing the permadeath from a roguelike shouldn't make it stop being one. Maybe the same thing with random generated content, though a roguelike whitout it would become pretty boring pretty fast. I think it just makes them less conventional roguelikes. They still play just like you'd expect a roguelike to play, but some mechanics are different. You'd fail to try to assign it to any other genre.
That's why that faggot had to come up with such absurd bullshit when trying to describe Mario 64 and Crash outside of their actual genre.
cdb756 No.14621305
>>14621209
A genre is a combination of specific traits, but some are more important than others. If you have an FPS and take away jumping, you still have an FPS. Take away guns and you have something thats not an FPS.
If you take final permadeath away from a roguelike, you still have grid based movement, randomly generated world, combat oriented game mechanics, ressource management etc
you take away grid based movement, and its not a roguelike
you take away tick based actions, and its not a roguelike
you take away combat, and its not a roguelike
you take away hunger management, and its not a roguelike
perma death is an important trait but its not a defining trait like the above
e8ba2c No.14621321
>>14621275
>Crash Bandicoot
I straight up said that it is a platformer.
626d37 No.14621324
>>14621275
Sure but at the same time I feel like you should try to nail things down otherwise you enter the nightmare of every indie fuck with random generation and upgrades trying to stamp their game with the roguelike buzzword. Then again after all 'like rogue' really doesn't necessarily mean 'clone of rogue' in the end.
Honestly trying to properly these particulars down is like pinning a ghost since genre's are hardly exact about these things.
e8ba2c No.14621330
>>14621305
>fps
>jumping
>when FPS started with no jumping
Rogue had permadeath. Lacking permadeath makes it a roguelite. Talk about being a faggot, and now it is evident why you were so assblasted about my defense of the genre to begin with. You are chomping at the bit to water the genre down, and bending over backwards to defend why an element of the game Rogue isn't necessary for a fucking RogueLIKE.
aeb40a No.14621343
>>14621089
If you're claiming that a RL I'm playing suddenly stops being one because I changed from ASCII to a tileset, you're more levels of retarded than I can come close to articulating.
e8ba2c No.14621354
>>14621343
>If you're claiming that a RL I'm playing suddenly stops being one because I changed from ASCII to a tileset, you're more levels of retarded than I can come close to articulating.
Starting to suspect samefagging… and no I never claimed that. I specifically said that they need to option for ASCII, which most roguelikes under the most basic definition include. The ones that don't are roguelite cancer cashing in on some of the trappings of the genre.
526688 No.14621374
>>14621144
>>14621305
Did you get mad at my argument and decided to pretend that permadeath isn't a defining trait of Roguelikes to generate more (you)s? Why are you here?
>>14621116
>Also is the Wii/PS2 remake of Baroque any good?
Get the wii version as the PS2 has a bug that makes getting 100% impossible. But I will also say the Sega Saturn version has the best atmosphere and visuals although you have to commit to just memorizing what some items read as in japanese since no translation exists.
e8ba2c No.14621379
Roguelike: Has all the elements of Rogue plus some new elements that do not diminish the elements established by Rogue.
Roguelite: Lacks one or more elements of Rogue.
Case and point the retarded FPS analogy used above. Jumping was an element added to FPS later, and doesn't diminish any element that established the FPS genre. A game claiming to be FPS without any shooting, would not be an FPS even if it claims to be, since shooting is a foundational requirement of the genre.
Period. You retards.
8554b8 No.14621396
>>14621321
>>14608179
>Crash Bandicoot is a platformer with a 3D asthetic, the gameplay is still 2D platforming, which is something Mario 64 doesn't have.
>>14621324
It's not hard, if the gameplay is like Rogue's, like the way you move and interact with the world, it's in the same genre of Rogue. It if doesn't play like Rogue and just have some elements of it, it is not. Indies will make shit games and say they're not what they are regardless of whatever, this isn't limited for roguelikes.
>>14621330
Not every feature of the first games of a genre is genre defining. Otherwise all FPS's would need to use 2D sprites.
>>14621379
>Roguelike: Has all the elements of Rogue plus some new elements that do not diminish the elements established by Rogue.
By this logic the only roguelike games are Rogue and a modded copies of Rogue that only add extra features without altering any content.
aeb40a No.14621408
>>14621354
I'm not a samefag. For whoever it is you think would VPN hop to argue with you.
>and no I never claimed that. I specifically said that they need to option for ASCII
Dude, that's the same fucking thing. You're saying that ASCII option is required but it's "not required to be" ASCII? No. A roguelike NEEDS to be tilebased, it does not require ASCII as an option because that is purely cosmetic. You can take a hypothetically tileset-only roguelike and make an ASCII mod for it later, that does not stop it from being a roguelike in the interim. Whether something has ascii or a tileset is not a defining feature of a roguelike, it simply needs one or the other, and it does need to be tilebased movement with time passing by turns tied to said movement.
cdb756 No.14621416
note how e8ba2c's posts are still up
that means the falseflagging is working
aeb40a No.14621436
>>14621416
false flagging as what? Do you know what false flagging means? What are you claiming he's trying to do?
e8ba2c No.14621756
>>14621396
<Crash bandicoot is a platformer
>hurr you said Crash bandicoot isn't a platformer
The retardation on your part, thanks for confirming it.
>Not every feature of the first games of a genre is genre defining
In the case of permadeath it has been a defining feature of the genre since its inception. Keep trying to pilpul your way out of it though.
>By this logic the only roguelike games are Rogue and a modded copies of Rogue
>hurrdurr
Why do you bother? You come off as a complete dumbass when you can't even understand what was said.
1477a2 No.14621768
>>14621305
>take away hunger management, and its not roguelike
TIL Infra Arcana isn't roguelike.tho' in infra arcana you have to manage sanity
9e5e6b No.14621797
What a fucking shitshow. You can't say permadeath isn't what defines Roguelike games, it was one of the main characteristics of Rogue. Gas yourselves.
8554b8 No.14621839
>>14621756
The problem was never saying it was a just a plaftormer, and I never said that was the problem, the problem was you saying it was a 2D platformer. You're still very good at ignoring the parts of the posts that prove you wrong to try and save face, I see.
>In the case of permadeath it has been a defining feature of the genre since its inception.
Except it hasn't. A game can play like Rogue without it. It's been proven that not every early feature is genre defining yet you say that this one is just because it goes against your logic.
>>14621797
Just because a game doesn't have a feature that was in Rogue doesn't mean it can't play like Rogue.
When I tell you that Elona is a roguelike with no permadeath you can know exactly how it plays like. It's different than saying a game is a roguelike that doesn't have tile and turn based combat, then it can play like fucking any genre from FPS to ARPG.
e8ba2c No.14621847
>>14621408
Did Rogue come with tiles? No. Rogue did not, nor was there any structure to implement tiles within the code of Rogue. This is like you arguing that an FPS is still an FPS if it takes place from the third person only, where as I'm saying it is an FPS if it has the option to be played from the first person. Yet here you are trying to act like you have any ground to stand on.
e8ba2c No.14621853
>>14621839
>the problem was with you saying it was a 2D platformer
With a 3D aesthetic
>You're still very good at ignoring the parts of the posts that prove you wrong to try and save face, I see.
<ignores the 3D part of my post
Pot meet kettle.
Pot meet kettle
8554b8 No.14621889
>>14621853
>With a 3D aesthetic
>ignores the 3D part of my post
I didn't ignore that, it just isn't relevant because aesthetic has nothing to do with genres and gameplay in general. It's just describes how it looks.
A game with 2D platformer gameplay with 3D aesthetic would be like DKC:Returns posted here: >>14607165
Once again you're proven wrong and made a fool out of yourself. I wonder what other bullshit argument you'll pull out of your ass now…
e8ba2c No.14621939
>>14621889
>I didn't ignore that, it just isn't relevant
>only thing I want to be relevant are relevant
>this unrelated game proves me right
9e5e6b No.14621947
>>14621839
Do kill yourself, kike.
8554b8 No.14621987
>>14621939
The only things that are relevant for defining a game's genre is how it plays, not how it looks, that's not my opinion, that's consensus and proven by various examples.
It also wouldn't change the fact that you were wrong, Crash does have 3D aestethic, but not 2D platforming, except for a few levels.
This unrelated game was one of the basis for your claims and you being wrong about it proves you were wrong about those claims.
You can stop posting anytime.
>>14621947
That's a strong argument there, totally disproves everything I've said until now.
e8ba2c No.14622017
>>14621987
>The only things that are relevant for defining a game's genre is how it plays
>Crash does have 3D aestethic, but not 2D platforming
<3D aesthetic platformer that plays like a 2D platformer
Make up your mind.
>That's a strong argument there, totally disproves everything I've said until now.
Looking at the post anon responded to where you try to say a Rogue like doesn't need to have a major part of Rogue's gameplay, and you shill a game that doesn't, does make you look like a kike, or at the very least a salty nigger trying hard to fit his favorite game into a genre it is lite on the elements of. If only we had a name for such games, but no I guess we got to fit them in too. By the way, how many elements of Rogue can we sacrifice before it stops being 'like' Rogue? Is it just the one you need to sacrifice, or is it as many as you need to?
8554b8 No.14622114
>>14622017
You missed the part where I said that Crash's doesn't play like a 2D Platformer, supported by the fact that a game's looks doesn't affect it's genre. The fact it has 3D Movement, 3D platforms and direct player interaction within 3 axis, it makes it a 3D Platformer(something you brilliantly said was impossible here >>14607108
), no matter what its aesthetic.
Don't try to ignore that and bring the discussion back to the question of "roguelikesXroguelites" and "sacrificing elements" or wandering it off into shilling based on an answer to an unrelated anon.
The same genre definition logic goes for 2D platformers, 3D platformers, FPS, Racing and Roguelikes.
9e5e6b No.14622147
>>14622114
Rogue is a simple game defined by these characteristics:
- One predetermined objective
- Procedurally generated levels, this includes the level layout, monsters and loot
- Permanent death, no save games
If you want to call a game Roguelike, it has to be like Rogue. Not having permanent death automatically makes a game not like Rogue. You can't argue with this.
e8ba2c No.14622172
>>14622114
<creators of Crash
<we wanted to make a 2D platform in 3D
>hurrdurr it's not true!
Why so desperate?
8554b8 No.14622222
>>14622147
Take this Roguelike by your definition, then.
Your definition can be added on top of games of almost any genre, that's why the term roguelite was born, to describe those games.
What defines the Roguelike genre and no other game can have without being an roguelike is the unique turnbased, tiled gameplay and the way the player interacts with the environment and enemies.
>If you want to call a game Roguelike, it has to be like Rogue.
>Not having permanent death automatically makes a game not like Rogue.
That's where you're wrong, kiddo.
>You can't argue with this.
I just argued with it here: >>14621839
>>14622172
<They successfully adapted 2D gameplay into a 3D plane
>This somehow didn't make the gameplay 3D
>For some reason it's still 2D just because you want it to be
I guess the guys wanted to make "FPSs in third person" have all been making FPSs this whole time!
You just shot yourself in the foot there.
e8ba2c No.14622234
>>14622222
Waste of quints.
>Spelunky
>Roguelike
And any faint semblance of you having a defensible position flew out the window and into the raging inferno of the sun.
>I guess the guys wanted to make "FPSs in third person" have all been making FPSs this whole time!
>You just shot yourself in the foot there.
>and by there I mean by me trying to make you say something you clearly didn't
What can be said further?
8554b8 No.14622318
>>14622234
My quints shall remain unwasted and checked by everyone.
Because Spelunky clearly isn't a roguelike and I never said it was in any other definition other than that anon's, it was just used to show him how bad his definition of a roguelike was. But surely you know that but is just merely pretending to be a retard.
You shooting yourself in the foot was about your own failed Crash example that proved yourself wrong, not about the analogy that I made myself. No one on their right mind could make sense of text describing a "Person A" saying "Person B" shot itself on the foot because of something that "Person A" said when there's a direct quote by "Person B" there. You'd have to be really desperate to try and twist your understanding to that.
And there you have it: This post of yours had no actual argument or any mention to anything I actually posted there, just you intentionally misinterpreting everything so you could have something to post about, because there was no possible refutation otherwise. You've officially ran out of options.
57dbcb No.14622331
what spoils my day is that the autist hating on rogue lites will still come and shit the place even if the thread was clearly about that kind of game, he always does, i dont know why you people pay any attention to his autistic 5 year old tier fits
8554b8 No.14622365
>>14622331
>i dont know why you people pay any attention to his autistic 5 year old tier fits
Because he got completely BTFO and I'm screencapping and archiving all his retarded shit from this thread.
I'll be posting it every Roguelike thread when I recognize his dumb shit, he'll not be gone but he'll have a harder time pulling off his crap when people see this shameful display.
e8ba2c No.14622596
>>14622331
>hating on roguelites
When did I ever say that? Oh, right, I didn't.
>>14622365
>if I declare I win, then I win
>oh boy I can't wait to share my screencap and get some delicious upboats
>>>/reddit/
8554b8 No.14622656
>>14622596
There was never anything to win here.
People can see who's an idiot and who isn't by themselves, that's all that ever matters.
I'm done here. I already got everything I wanted from you.
e8ba2c No.14624522
>>14622656
>admits to being retarded on purpose
Silly faggot, you wasted all your effort for nothing.
526688 No.14624773
So going back to playing Baroque since this thread reminded me of the game again.
What would people be looking for in a first person Roguelike?
I think Baroque hits some good marks but the way the dungeon is presented (a gradually unfolding labyrinth that has to be extended by completing objectives, dying, then re-entering the dungeon) might be a turn off to people who just want the full length tower available at the start. There is also a thing to be stated about the variety in weapons, given that this game isn't just you bumping up against adjacent enemies, the types of swords seems very lacking.you have a short sword with a 3-hit combo, a long sword with a 2-hit, and the very rare dual blades which have a 4-hit combo. Without trying to make the game more action based, I'd have liked to see some different weapon types even if you keep the movesets very simple. Stuff like spears (for thrusting attacks and range) and Axes (for greater knockback compared to the great sword)
The base Neuro Tower is well designed, and the challenge Dungeons are an amazing conversion of the original Grid-based Rogue formula to 3D. Just that 100 floors is a lot to ask and I've never survived past the 60s.
And the enemy designs look great, but like I'd said yesterday; the aesthetics of the Saturn version are superior and I like how claustrophobic playing this game from first person is. (thankfully the Wii/PS2 port has an option to activate this).
I've been runimating over designing a more science fiction based FPRoguelike. I think there is merit to the design and there aren't any other examples outside of stuff like that Lovecraft one on Steam which opts for a more vertical design to levels as platforming and jumping play a part in the game as opposed to Baroque keeping you restricted to ground movement only (but individual floors can higher terrain to navigate via incline planes)
4012ad No.14624788
>>14624773
I've tried Baroque a while back and it was tough even with savescumming. However I didn't feel like I was progressing much after the game keep repeating the same cutscene where the guy pointed at the tower. Doesn't help that it's an absurdist universe where there's no clear goal of anything from what I remembered. What event would be a good milestone to know that I've progressed? I don't mind slight spoiler.
526688 No.14624816
>>14624788
>What event would be a good milestone to know that I've progressed? I don't mind slight spoiler.
Yeah, one thing is that the game is very cryptic and even I accidentally did some things that wound up progressing the game without realizing it. I wound up killing everyone on the surface save the few NPC's that are immune to what I did on my first playthrough
You'll know you've progressed if the length of the tower increases. Once you finish the first dungeon (5 floors) you get put on the overworld. The Neuro tower starts off with 16 floors, and will reach a maximum of 40 floors.
The way to progress is to pay attention to what the NPC's are saying; in particular pay attention to Long Neck on the surface, Dr. Angelicus in the tower, both the floating girls within the tower, and the Archangel on the surface.
I'll tell you these things
<Longneck is the key to moving forward but you have to make him regret first
<Pay attention to who drops idea sephirah (the white orbs) and show them to others
<You can do more than shoot the Absolute God when you reach her
<The maidens are missing something, bring what they need to them and they shall give birth to progress
I think that's suitably cryptic but feel free to use a guide if that doesn't help. The game wants you to experiment a lot, but it's not completely clear on what objectives expand the tower.
39a24f No.14624822
>all this autism
OP, and OPs of future threads, if nothing in your first post meets the Berlin Interpretation, DO NOT put the word "roguelike" anywhere in it, especially not the title. It's that simple.
>>14618620
Capped & saved
>>14624773
>What would people be looking for in a first person Roguelikelike?
1. Get a proper full FP RPG
2. Remove campaign
3. Add randomization
Honestly, why aren't there more RPG engines being recycled today? Where are our Gold Boxes and Infinities?
526688 No.14624895
>>14624822
>Honestly, why aren't there more RPG engines being recycled today?
Modern game engines? They are if you look at how engines like Unreal has been used for a lot of games for visuals, and Havox was the dominant Physics engine for the last console generation.
If you mean recycling assets? Some Studios do.
If you mean why don't studios make their own engines and then use them for multiple games? Not sure, could just be a cost thing since now there are so many more things to consider when designing an engine that using a pre-built one and creating your own assets probably is more cost effective.
9e5e6b No.14624932
>>14622222
It also has to be turnbased, I overlooked that fact, but it's just another requirement that needs to be met for a game to be a Roguelike. It still stands that you cannot remove one and call it Roguelike.
39a24f No.14625028
>>14624895
I mean something like what still happens with FPSs, where whole engines are leveraged for games in the same genre, both by the original studio and various "2nd-party" partner studios, preferably with some sort of modding tools.
About the closest things I can think of now are the growing Obsidian/InExile collaboration, and the perpetual abused spouse relationship between Bethesda and the TES modding community.
526688 No.14625126
>>14625028
That era kind of died. Good custom engines are hoarded by their creators and general purpose engines are far more common and versatile so anyone can just use those as a basis and then tweak it to their specifications (and most likely not share those specifications after release)
Modding depends on the company, game, and fanbase.
4012ad No.14625283
>>14624816
Interesting, this shit sounds contrived but I now have renew interest in this game. Thanks for the heads up.
526688 No.14625445
>>14625283
>Thanks for the heads up.
No problem. A few other things. Inside the tower there are a limited number of consciousness orbs. They all look different from each other but are glowing spheres usually suspended in the air. These are ways for you to save items between runs by throwing them into the Orb, and the item kid on the surface will hold onto them for you so you can retrieve them later
He has a limited inventory but will expand what he can carry when you throw identified items he hasn't seen before to him and it's usually every 10 items he expands.
The game has audio logs in the form of those glowing white orbs that enemies and NPC's will drop. You can take those to the Baroquemonger on the surface (by using a consciousness orb to get them out the tower) and he will read off the memory attached. All he needs is a Sephirah that hasn't been read, throw it at him, and he'll read the next line of dialogue. Every enemy has 8 lines in total, and there is a way to duplicate items including unread idea sephirah but don't worry about that in the beginning.
This game consumed a lot of my time years ago so I'm glad to share any knowledge I have of it. >>14625283
526688 No.14625447
>>14625445
Wrong pic, this is one of the consciousness orbs.