978abb No.14523090
Why did Fromsoft change things with original Dark Souls 2 but made them worse?
>Move almost all of the Heide Knights to Heide's tower rather than spread out in later levels
>Instead of having to fight the Belfry Gargoyles to make the Lost Sinner fight easier, you find the key you need to get on the way to the bonfire to fight him, making Belfry Luna completely pointless
>put the boss at the end of No Man's Wharf in Sinner's Rise where you'd normally fight the Undead Abberations. Makes absolutely no sense given he can't even fit through the door.
>added more petrified statues that just add more busywork to the game and add more backtracking
I could go on. Why did Fromsoft ruin their own game like this?
428f60 No.14523103
It's a mix of "muh B team" and the fact that From has absolutely no idea what made DeS and DaS enjoyed so much. 3 suffers from a shitload of problems as well, which should give you an idea.
978abb No.14523112
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14523103
It's just confusing because a lot of these decisions are objectively worse. Especially the Belfry Luna one.
I did like playing Dks2 vanilla so it's jarring playing SotFS and seeing very little was actually improved upon and they mostly just made things worse.
9034d8 No.14523122
>>14523103
>From has absolutely no idea what made DeS and DaS enjoyed so much
I guarantee it's mostly this, they hit gold but weren't sure how or why and their attempts to do it again weren't good
e99640 No.14523131
Scholar is better. You don't really even need specific examples, you'll start to feel it as you close in on the later areas of the game. Less fights where you're just going through the motions with small packs of enemies, instead condensed somewhat into fewer and tougher fights. Undead crypt, amana, dragon shrine, aldia's keep. All better.
Heides is better, what the fuck are you talking about? That place had absolutely nothing going for it originally. The flexile sentry in sinner's rise makes a whole lot more sense than the one they put near the shrine of winter or whatever it was, too.
I can't defend the belfry luna thing though. There is also the matter of a couple of armor sets which are a bitch to acquire as they come from enemies that don't respawn even with covenant of champions.
eff057 No.14523140
>>14523131
>Less fights where you're just going through the motions with small packs of enemies, instead condensed somewhat into fewer and tougher fights
Its the complete opposite
>Heides is better, what the fuck are you talking about
What the fuck are YOU talking about?
978abb No.14523153
>>14523131
<Heides is better, what the fuck are you talking about?
>Put a bunch of Heide Knights just hanging out there, they just become a repetitive annoying fight. They also get aggroed if you beat the level boss so it becomes just annoying to walk through since you have to kite all the enemies back to the start so you can kill them 1v1
>put a dragon before Ornstein. Made it so it's really hard to run at him and fight him because he just breathes fire on you that's almost impossible to avoid. Almost everyone cheeses his fight with a bow instead. If you do time it properly and run past him he's easy as hell to kill.
How is this better?
eff057 No.14523176
>>14523153
>put a dragon before Ornstein
The worst part about this is that it doesn't even make sense. Why is there a dragon right in front of the dragon slayer boss?
e99640 No.14523184
>>14523153
There's a puzzle encounter involving a dragon breathing fire and a bridge in a souls game, better call it shit.
The patrolling knights give the area some actual character and a gimmick that helps make it more memorable. Considering the limited resources (they couldn't remake the entire game) it's a good effort. The game fills in the gap of tough recurring fights with the forlorn phantom and the pursuer.
eff057 No.14523202
>>14523184
>shitty enemy placed with no rhyme or reason
>"its a puzzle"
This is a shockwave tier excuse.
a8b41c No.14523205
>mfw playing Scholar of the First Jew
>mfw I counted over 12 ucking alonne knights and captains in the first area of the Iron Keep alone
>Several of them were black phantoms
e99640 No.14523208
>>14523202
Guess they could have stuck it somewhere else, yeah. It's still not a big deal at all.
And it is literally a puzzle encounter, you said it yourself. The thing has next to no HP once you get past the fire.
98235a No.14523218
>>14523103
>it's a mix of "muh B team"
False. Dark Souls 2 was made by "the B team," Scholar was after they finished working on BB and they decided to make a new version of Dark Souls 2 using the regular talent of FromSoft. Any changes you hate in scholar are made by the A team. Pack that in your pipe and smoke it.
c55ebf No.14523219
SotFS is just OoT Master Quest, but not as funny.
a8b41c No.14523226
>>14523216
>>14523218
>t. Tanimura
eff057 No.14523228
>>14523208
>It's still not a big deal at all.
Its sticks out like a sore thumb along with the wandering heide knights with botched aggro range.
>And it is literally a puzzle encounter, you said it yourself
learn to read IDs nigger
978abb No.14523231
>>14523208
The bridge dragon in Dks1 was a much better designed fight. You could avoid his fire attacks and cut off his tail to get his sword. I remember grinding that fight because I liked it when I played that game.
The Dragon in Heide's Tower is just pointless. It's a dragon that you just need to time avoiding his breath and then he's easy as hell to kill. If you use a bonfire ascetic and approach him from Ornstein's bonfire he's a complete joke
98235a No.14523232
>>14523226
>Haha, that'll show em.
Not an argument.
a8b41c No.14523236
428f60 No.14523237
>>14523218
Hence why I said muh B team
98235a No.14523241
>>14523231
>Dragonrider
>next to Dragonslayer
In scholar they're both liars, because dragonrider still doesn't ride the dragon, and now dragonslayer has failed to slay the dragon.
9a2e50 No.14523251
>>14523103
This
Not only from but every Japanese game company. It's like Resident evil when they are too fucking retarded to see what made the first ones great, even though it's quite obvious.
also sageru for shit circle jerk thread.
e99640 No.14523264
>>14523251
One good game can be exploited for a long time with low quality sequels and rehashes, but too many good games in a row creates an expectation of quality that has to be lived up to. They're not retarded, just lazy and jewish.
8dd253 No.14523286
>>14523241
the riders look like they fatroll. only dragon i could think of in 2 they could actually ride is the ancient dragon. and again that fight is a push over once you get passed the breath
acc6a2 No.14523300
I prefer vanilla probably just because I like knowing where everything is, but I think SOTFS adds so many enemies the world feels not dying at all, but positively overcrowded with life. Also most of the difficulty changes seem front loaded, making the early game areas play like the late game areas but with less tools for the player, leading to a weird power curve. I also think the interconnected nature of Dark Souls 1 was partially unintentional, looking back, at the very least they didn't see it as something the player would derive enjoyment from, but rather as a means to gatekeep warping. Miyazaki certainly didn't seem to like that players would always take the master key. Demon's Souls has the best boss fights, almost every one has unique mechanics, by Dark Souls 3 every boss is just the roll/attack routine. "Gimmick" bosses were the trues saviors after all; Allant would be a tutorial boss in DS3.
98235a No.14523320
>>14523286
Did they ever fix the part where his attack was inconsistent with the animation? I reemmber being hit by a crushing attack before his foot even moved.
b7ae24 No.14523327
I was convinced at that point that they fell so hard for the DURK SURS IS LE HARD xD meme that they thought the things people complained about were the things they need to do more of to make the game even LE HARDER to play
acc6a2 No.14523338
>>14523286
iirc there's some concept art of them riding some kind of wingless dragons in the artbook. I really wish DS2 had been given more time.
eff057 No.14523339
>>14523320
Hitboxes haven't been touched
98235a No.14523342
>>14523339
Did they at least fix the part where enemies turned like they were on top of a record player?
6c46af No.14523345
>>14523286
That's not a dragon, it's a Drake or a Wyvern. The only actual dragons in DS are the ones like Seath or Ancient.
eff057 No.14523346
428f60 No.14523368
>>14523357
It's working as intended, just as poise works as intended in 3.
bb1b39 No.14523371
>>14523103
They started to belive their own hype. How many time have you heard talking games that it's dark soul of something or how it's like dark souls, thees cases it's mean game has some chalenges.
What made DeS and DS great was multiple thing not just that it's hard. DS3 is epitome where there is nothing else then challenge.
acc6a2 No.14523376
>>14523345
I was under the impression the Ancient Dragon in DS2 was just a golem in the shape of a dragon, created by Aldia, though where it's will comes from I guess I don't know. Honestly I don't care all that much about Dark Souls lore, it was only ever meant to add colour to the game and not tell a contiguous story, fans obsessing over it is why DS3 ended up being so unoriginal.
978abb No.14523387
>14523300
>I also think the interconnected nature of Dark Souls 1 was partially unintentional
I don't think it was. They clearly spent a lot of time doing things like making it so that you could see later/earlier levels just looking out into the vistas of the game. Similar to how you could see the tower of Latria in the distance from the second level in DeS
I think it's moreso that the devs listened too highly to criticism of Dks1. Specifically that people didn't enjoy backtracking and wanted to warp between bonfires.
I also think that adding teleporting was the result of technical necessity since they had to improve the graphics. So making the levels less interconnected and more instanced to mask loading makes more sense in that regard.
b7ae24 No.14523388
>>14523342
>FROM
>Fixing bullshit enemy tracking
Untouched in SotfS, even worse than 2 in 3. It’s objectively bad game design to have the wind up for enemy attacks track, indicating to the player that they need to dodge, only to have the attack itself track even harder so you get fucked for dodging anyway. Almost as frustrating as enemies being allowed to damage you through map geometry while you get a recoil animation for attempting the same. 2 and 3 allow the enemies to be janky and get away with it.
6c46af No.14523407
>>14523388
BB has that map geometry shit in fucking spades, dropped it within 5 minutes of starting.
13cc5f No.14523408
>>14523388
>enemies hold windup for a second longer than you would naturally expect
>every second boss does this so it's no longer a fun twist on the formula but an annoying timewaster
98235a No.14523415
>>14523388
I actually like 2 and 3, I just didn't like the way they changed things in the first 15 minutes of SOTFS, so I didn't play beyond the forest of the last giant tower waypoint.
6a11dd No.14523431
So is it better to just play the original?
d85760 No.14523437
>>14523112
Nigger, what are you talking about? It's the opposite entirely, very little was made worse and most stuff that changed was improved. If anything they didn't change enough, in the end the covenants are still bad.
98235a No.14523452
>>14523431
I'm not going to say yes to that, but I prefer the original over scholar. The upgrade was only $5 if you had both Dark 2 and all the DLC, so I bought it for the DirectX 11 upgrade to Dark Souls 2. $5 is nothing.
acc6a2 No.14523457
>>14523431
I've seen people hate both, I've seen people love both. I've seen people love vanilla and hate SOTFS and I've seen people love SOTFS and hate vanilla, and they didn't all love the one they first played. There's some eceleb speedrunner that started with SOTFS and hated it, and was then convinced to play vanilla and loved it. Either way it's not on sale right now and if you're pirating then there's no reason you can't try both.
e99640 No.14523460
>>14523431
I'd suggest neither
d85760 No.14523461
>>14523205
>>Several of them were black phantoms
Alonne knight phantoms? What?
98235a No.14523465
6c46af No.14523468
>>14523431
Nah. 60 fps, comes with all the DLC, and plenty of balance changes. Made my boi Barbed Club less broken, but did pretty good regardless.
Ivory King is the best DLC in Souls.
acc6a2 No.14523470
>>14523468
Original has 60fps if you're playing on PC.
d85760 No.14523472
>>14523465
Define phantoms. I didn't it play it so long ago I don't remember the Iron Keep, there were no knight phantoms.
eb8dfc No.14523479
>>14523090
>All those Sinner changes
What the fuck, i thought they only added more enemies everywhere compared to the original.
Now i'm going to search all the changes.
Fuck, i knew something was off when playing through No Man's Wharf level design-wise.
>>14523218
Kek, didn't know this either
8dd253 No.14523480
>>14523345
>That's not a dragon, it's a Drake or a Wyvern. The only actual dragons in DS are the ones like Seath or Ancient.
In DaS2 outside Fake Orenstein I would call that a drake. The Ancient Dragon toward the end of the game was easily the largest 'Souls boss I have fought and was clearly a dragon.
>>14523376
>I was under the impression the Ancient Dragon in DS2 was just a golem in the shape of a dragon, created by Aldia, though where it's will comes from I guess I don't know.
I figured because it gave me the Ashen Heart and a big soul it was actually a dragon. I'm playing through 3 now and I all the "lore" and timeline has me confused. For me 2 seemed to be way after 1 to the point everything was called something else because they forgot. However so far 3 feels like it takes place right after 1 or possible some fucked timeline. Also I never understood how Kalameet could exist if Seath killed all the rest of the dragons… (same for covenant dragon). Maybe it was a golem.
acc6a2 No.14523491
>>14523480
>I figured because it gave me the Ashen Heart and a big soul
It drops a soul of a giant.
eff057 No.14523502
>>14523468
>60 fps
FPS durability bug still isn't fixed. Its actually worse in the rerelease than the original on PC.
>and plenty of balance changes
All for the worse. The DLC is untouched so it feels especially jarring.
bc7e72 No.14523507
I've heard one of the complaints is that most of the bosses in DS2 are humanoids in armor. Is that true and if so why is it considered a problem or failure?
f24cbd No.14523517
>>14523507
They're less interesting to fight and overall become repetitive. It's a problem 3 has as well. Basically more shit like the Gaping Dragon and less Artorias clones.
eff057 No.14523519
>>14523507
>I've heard one of the complaints is that most of the bosses in DS2 are humanoids in armor
around 50% of them are
>Is that true and if so why is it considered a problem or failure
Lack of variety. While it has more bosses than both Dark Souls 1 and 3 in number, a lot of them are big dudes in armor or humanoid group with some mobs.
978abb No.14523521
>>14523507
>I've heard one of the complaints is that most of the bosses in DS2 are humanoids in armor.
There's a noticeable skew in that direction yes
>Is that true and if so why is it considered a problem or failure?
Makes it feel like the game has less surprises. Like "oh here's another armored guy with a sword/spear, here's another one, here's another one"
There's fewer surprises like in Dks1 where they throw a giant dog with a knife in it's mouth.
acc6a2 No.14523530
>>14523502
They patched it in original, but durability was always supposed to be a manageable resource in 2, frankly they went overboard in patching it in vanilla; even using a rapier in the Sinh fight only took about half the durability off and half his deal was supposed to be that you need to switch weapons halfway through the fight.
>>14523507
Yes, but consider that Dark Souls 2 has double the number of bosses than most soulsborne games, there's a lot of lame bosses like dragonrider, but I'd say there's as many good bosses as any other Dark Souls game, although most of those good ones are dudes in armor like Alonne/Fume. Demon Souls is still king for me when it comes to bosses though.
4b7ba5 No.14523538
>>14523090
A different team made it.
eff057 No.14523539
>>14523530
>but durability was always supposed to be a manageable resource in 2
Theres a difference between being a manageable resource and losing half your durability because your attack animation clipped through a wall or a ragdoll while fighting a group.
acc6a2 No.14523543
>>14523539
I wish I had FPS that good, but it's all the more reason to stick with vanilla.
d85760 No.14523550
>>14523539
The engine of the Souls games has some serious problems.
eff057 No.14523556
>>14523550
Dark Souls 3 doesn't have this problem. Neither does Dark souls 1 for that matter even if you unlock the framerate.
bc7e72 No.14523558
>>14523517
>>14523519
>>14523521
>>14523530
I was just wondering as someone who got into this "genera" via Nioh. About half of the bosses in that game are just elite samurai with a pokemon but those fights were still enjoyable. Of course Nioh is historical fiction and not high dark fantasy so maybe that makes the difference.
>>14523338
>I really wish DS2 had been given more time.
That seems like an all too common occurrence with the Souls games, unfortunately.
eff057 No.14523587
>>14523558
Nioh actually has mechanics with which you can keep up with fast bosses. You don't have half the shit in Dark Souls 2 and 3 that you have in Nioh and most of the time the games actually takes away mechanics from you.
In Nioh you can parry and counter every single humanoid boss, every single boss in the game also has a stamina bar which has a negative effect on them if they run out. In Dark Souls 3 you can't parry and riposte the final boss and none of the humanoid bosses can be backstabbed. Most of them also have infinite combos.
The bosses in Nioh are meant for replayability(because they reuse them so much)
8dd253 No.14523588
>>14523491
>It drops a soul of a giant.
Oh yeah that reminds me if I ever play through again to keep all of them because after I dropped the dragon that would have been 5x on Vendrick
978abb No.14523595
>>14523558
I'm not against humanoid bosses I just want more variety
010ea3 No.14523801
>>14523408
>Windup for regular swipe attack is 3 fucking seconds
I actually had to count out loud every time he did it.
d85760 No.14523813
>>14523801
>not fucking him up in those 3 seconds
I always have this feeling that the people who bitch about dork souls 2 combat are just bad.
b4ac06 No.14523818
>>14523090
What did beating the Belfry Gargoyles do to weaken the Lost Sinner?
I wanted to wait for the game to be properly finished and packaged before I bought it, so I never played a non-Scholar version.
6a11dd No.14523862
>>14523452
>>14523457
>>14523460
>>14523468
Thanks for advice, anons. It seems there's no choice to play the SOTFS for beginners because muh less bugs.
6a11dd No.14523885
>>14523862
fug I meant 'no choice but'
978abb No.14524120
>>14523818
In the vanilla game you had to kill the Belfry gargoyles to obtain the Bastille key which let you open all of the doors in the Lost Bastille and Sinners Rise levels. You needed to do this in order to use a torch to light up the Lost Sinner's arena to make his fight easier since he would normally prevent you from locking onto him.
In SotFS you obtain the Bastille key immediately after Ruin Sentinels making Belfry Luna pointless as an area and completely skippable.
0dcc08 No.14524161
It took me a long time to enjoy playing dark souls 2, in pvp I still feel like I have absolutely no fucking clue what I am doing and I still win duels about half the time and invasions moreso
is it that nobody has any clue whats going on? thats what I feel like, I have a relatively tame build and I feel like I am surprising people
this is as opposed to dark souls 1 where I have a totally off the wall build and KNOW I am surprising people or 3 where I am pretty sure its a surprise but surprising them didnt matter most of the time
b4ac06 No.14524172
>>14524120
I understand what you're saying, but in most cases locking on is a crutch that only really helps with parrying.
978abb No.14524196
>>14524172
Regardless of whether or not the player wants to make the fight easier or not. My point is that Scholar of the First Sin changed this and made it easier for no reason other than some players didn't like having to fight the Gargoyles or use a Pharros Lockstone to get there. It turned an optional boss fight that I felt motivated to do, into a fight I couldn't care less about.
978abb No.14524209
>>14524196
Ontop of that it made it so there's no reason to fight Lost Sinner without having lit the torches. Since all you need to do is light a torch at the bonfire in sinner's rise, light the fire near the elevator. Kill all of the mummies and the Wharf boss inbetween yourself and Lost Sinner, and then light the arena
d87c3b No.14524283
>>14523507
>Is that true and if so why is it considered a problem or failure?
Completely true. There's a single memorably monstrous boss. Literally just the one. It's a problem because Dark Souls 1 had a ton of interesting and memorable boss designs and DS2 doesn't. Admittedly, yes, a lot of the big dude in armor with big weapon fights in the Souls series are among the best fights in the series, fighting the same overly similar things over and over gets kinda tedious.
>>14523539
Swing exactly as many times as you need to kill the enemy.
a45338 No.14524366
>>14523539
>>14523556
I still can't comprehend why the fuck you would ever tie durability loss to how long the weapon's hitbox stays in a corpse. Why not just make it decrease by a set amount on hit?
eff057 No.14524378
>>14524366
>Why not just make it decrease by a set amount on hit
Thats exactly what it does, except that passing through a ragdoll counts as multiple hits which are checked on a timer based on the framerate.
a9f342 No.14525103
>>14523480
You fight Kalameet in the past, if the Everlasting at Ash Lake is any indication not all dragons died after the war.
>>14523587
Sister Friede… I hate her "I kill you no matter what" movement.
a9f342 No.14525328
Why are NPC summons such idiots but they handle themselves better against players?
428f60 No.14525719
>>14525328
Because NPC summons are at least supposed to help those who play offline while any retard can put down their summon sign online.
7f86e3 No.14525738
>>14525328
>Why are NPC summons such idiots but they handle themselves better against players?
NPC summons are generally most useful as a distraction against bosses so you can whittle their HP down.
A good example of this is the NPC summon for Ruin Sentinels. He does almost no damage against them. However since you have to kill 3 of them as quickly as possible before they all gang up on you using him to distract them buys you just enough time to make the fight more manageable.
a9f342 No.14525759
>>14525719
I wish my suspension ended already, I wanna co-op.
>>14525738
For the amount of "strength" Slave Knight Gael has he is the most stupid summon against Friede, he doesn't roll out of the ice, always takes it, stays in the way of all attacks and usually never lives to see Friede's final form.
23afb0 No.14526375
>>14523176
Ornstein was after his mentor, the nameless king, who allied himself with dragons.
17e680 No.14526392
>>14523090
I like the changes. Didn't buy the DLC and got SoTFS on discount so I only cost 30 dollars
My favorite part about the remix is that the enemy placement makes more sense in terms of lore. For example the Dragon in Heide's Tower of Flame. The coolest part is killing the dragon drops the shield I designed.
>added more petrified statues
they also added way more fragrant branch of yore and its also a starting gift so you have more starting path options.
d85760 No.14526397
>>14526392
Your shield is pretty good.
eb8dfc No.14526401
>>14526392
>drops the shield I DESIGNED
>got SoTFS on discount
Yeah, surely they wouldn't even gift a copy of the game to someone who won a design contest.
Full of shit, next time don't bother to type.
589f6a No.14526405
>>14523431
It's better to never play dark souls 2
17e680 No.14526413
>>14526401
They did give a copy of the game to me. But I was a PS3 version and a collectors edition that I left unopened. I bought a second copy. Remember it was almost a half year before the PC port was released. The discount was for anyone who owned the PC version.
17e680 No.14526465
>>14526401
check the exif data
97c54b No.14526481
>>14526465
You know chans strip exif data from files uploaded, right?
Shit is blank son.
d85760 No.14526482
524be6 No.14526524
>>14526504
Did you discuss this in the past? I seen to remember something about a shield contest being mentioned either here or on 4/v/.
eb8dfc No.14526543
>>14526465
>exif data can't be easily modified
To stay on topic, is there any list of all the changes SotFS made?
Can't find relevant shit on youtube, and the wikis don't explain the important shit like the Lost Sinner changes.
acc6a2 No.14526551
>>14526392
It's my favorite shield aesthetically, so thanks I guess. Is it supposed to actually be black? Because part of the reason I like it is the slight dark teal tinge but every description of it I read says "black & white" and that dude that made a real life version made it jet black.
17e680 No.14526575
>>14526551
>Is it supposed to actually be black?
No, the image above is the original design. Its meant to be off white peach and dark teal. Its based on the grass crest shield, Celtic knots and Frampt vs Kaathe. I could have done a more detailed illustration but didn't actually think I would actually win, so wasn't really invested in spending alot of time on details.
>>14526543
>is there any list of all the changes SotFS made
I don't know off the top of my head, there was a tone of little changes but nothing significant. The most valuable change was the addition of the Agape Ring because Souls Memory was garage.
17e680 No.14526581
524be6 No.14526583
>>14526575
Answer me faggot
17e680 No.14526586
>>14526524
>>14526583
>Did you discuss this in the past?
Yes, it was probably about 3 or 4 years ago here but I don't often bring it up.
8dd253 No.14526589
>>14523556
>Neither does Dark souls 1 for that matter even if you unlock the framerate.
If you use DSFix and uncap or set FPS to 60 it completely breaks the physics engine because some jackoff thought it would be smart to run physics calcs in the same pass as the scene render.
acc6a2 No.14526592
>>14526575
Nice, Teal is my favorite colour. Also the agape ring was added to vanilla in a patch, but I think you might need to own all the DLC's for it to show up.
17e680 No.14526596
>>14526589
>completely broken physics
It only has minor effects on jumping and that one ladder in the Undead parish. Its hardly as bad as you make it out to be.
>>14526592
>Also the agape ring was added to vanilla
yeah, if you own the DLC then there is no reason to get SoTFS. As I said, considering the DLC was initially 30 bucks and SoTFS came with all the DLC I thought it was a fair enough price with the PC discount.
8dd253 No.14526603
>>14526596
>It only has minor effects on jumping and that one ladder in the Undead parish.
You don't understand.
>Its hardly as bad as you make it out to be.
If anything perhaps I understated the severity. DaS is to be played at 30fps.
17e680 No.14526611
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>>14526603
The only issues is trying to make the jump to return to Undead Asylum and a ladder in Undead Parish glitch where you can go out of bounds. Otherwise 60fps works fine.
53f437 No.14526613
Dark souls really are not games I ever want to go back and replay
especially not 2 or 3,i dont remember a single thing about 2 and 3
What a waste
Bloodborne is good though
8dd253 No.14526633
>>14526611
>Dark Souls
>60fps works fine
it affects other things
9f38dc No.14526644
>>14525738
Actually, Pilgrim Belclaire is the most useful of all NPC summons next to Bradly if I'm remembering his name right. She's my mage waifu who can completely destroy the sentinels. Now Felicia is a piece of garbage slut who's a masochist for taking killing blows and not healing.
8dd253 No.14526647
>>14526613
>i dont remember a single thing about 2
i remember dual wielding was pretty cool
17e680 No.14526664
8dd253 No.14526667
>>14526664
>prove it
not that i'm obligated to do so, but higher than 30FPS in DaS provides higher timer precision which can be a problem
9f38dc No.14526674
>>14526664
There are several areas in the game where 60 fps means you can't step over a brick or ledge so your character can slip and slide over the edge to their death. Your roll distance is also incredibly short if you fast roll. That's what I've noticed anyways. I also believe gravity kills at a shorter distance in 60 compared to 30, but I haven't done that much testing.
8dd253 No.14526765
>>14526674
also certain frame-perfect glitches/exploits get harder to do the more frames there are, etc.
dfca12 No.14526824
>>14523090
Isn't the ps3 version still not updated?
I heard because of hardware limitations they discontinued the updates
acc6a2 No.14526836
>>14526824
PS3 SOTFS isn't actually SOTFS, it's vanilla with the dlc.
dfca12 No.14526845
>>14526836
Yes, what I mean is the stuff detailed in OP doesn't apply
acc6a2 No.14526858
>>14526845
Of course not, those are all SOTFS changes, they're not in vanilla DS2 on PC either.
dfca12 No.14526867
>>14526858
What else does the SOTFS version makes worse?
And what does it improve?
I know I really wanted to fight the Drakein front of ornstein.
acc6a2 No.14526876
>>14526867
>I know I really wanted to fight the Drakein front of ornstein.
Then play SOTFS PC or PS4 version, it's not in PS3 SOTFS/vanilla or PC vanilla.
>What else does the SOTFS version makes worse?
>And what does it improve?
Look up.
bf40f9 No.14526898
>>14526392
I love seeing you pop into DaSII threads shield anon.
Currently replaying through DaSIII and even though it's reasonably fun to play it's so fucking short and there are parts that just piss me off in that they almost designed it around fucking up or preventing clean runs back to a boss after you die. Also the sheer number of insta kill grabs, ten-minuted attack combos, and infinite-stamina enemies gets old fast.
Does anyone have any excitement over the remaster of 1 or do we expect a lazy addition of 60fps and some fixes to lighting and upscaled textures?
79e8f1 No.14526921
Are the boss fights anywhere near as memorable in DS2? I will always remember Sif and Ornstein & Smough from DS1.
79e8f1 No.14526928
>>14526611
>>14526633
>>14526664
Do you still fall through the floor on some ladders when doing 60fps?
5cdbd2 No.14526950
>>14526928
yes. anyone saying 60fps is viable for dark souls is retarded. It just doesn't work and isn't worth the headaches.
7c6a05 No.14526951
>>14523371
Yeh a developer believing their own bs always ends badly.
7c6a05 No.14526956
>>14526950
>>14526928
I wish 60fps was possible but 30 really isn't that bad. Pretty much everything through the 90s was running at 30 after all. For multiplayer stuff I can't tolerate less than 60 though.
7c6a05 No.14526963
>>14526481
>chans
>>14526392
>Shield autist is here
Nice.
5cdbd2 No.14526965
>>14526956
framerate autism is the most absurd form of gamer aspergers. 60 is ideal and should be targeted for pretty much every game, but to act like it's the end of the world when a game runs at 30 just means you need a bullet in your mouth.
7c6a05 No.14526983
>>14526965
Pretty much. At the end of the day a stable number matters more than what number you peak at.
9034d8 No.14526992
>>14526921
No, even the ones with decent areas to fight in aren't good bosses
53f437 No.14527012
>>14526898
I'm interested in how they ruin it and how badly it will run on the switch.
but other than that? Na given how dast I can beat the game I really dont feel a HD update is going to change my already formed opinions I've had for years
Its basically as appealing as if they made a HD update for Rock Paper Scissors, like sure it might look a tad nicer but it could look uglier and still be the same game
d85760 No.14527076
>>14526921
Pursuer, Gargoyles, Sinh, Sir Alonne, Ivory King
d85760 No.14527126
>>14526965
As long as it's stable it's not a big deal, but of course you cannot tolerate such low quality on PC, or you end up with no games running higher than 30FPS.
eb8dfc No.14527219
>>14526921
No, because they weren't meme'd into the ground.
Same with characters, like Solaire "praise the sun xdxd" (aka the new "cake is a lie"), or Gwynevere "does anybody else big chest ahead xdxd" or Gwyndolin, spammed by trap-lovers.
Don't misunderstand me, i like those characters, but people spamming them is the reason why they are memorable.
It happens with other aspects of DS1, like the skeletals on fireshrine, gargoyles or blighttown: Just because people spammed them "le hard choke point xdxd".
In fact, same things happens with BB, DS3 or DeS, no "memorable" characters except the maidens.
AND I REPEAT: this is "mainstream memorable", not what you, as an individual, consider memorable
bf40f9 No.14527243
The Royal Rat Authority is such a retarded, badly made boss fight that it hurts my head to this day to imagine someone adding it to the game and thinking it worked fine. Pharros Lockstones are retarded. The record player spin you right round enemies are retarded.
It's a shame because parts of DaSII feel… cozy for some reason. Something about Majula is really nice.
4fdf1b No.14527262
>>14527243
>the record player spin you right round enemies
Care to elaborate for someone who's more played? Do you mean stupidly wide turning circles, or (like pic related) where they just sort of rotate on the spot with absolutely no animation or what?
d1190f No.14527263
>>14526392
one of the best designs in the game
post portfolio
a70e45 No.14527271
How could anyone talk about Dark souls 2 and not note how incredibly slow it is? Attacking is slow, rolling is slow, enemies are slow.
17e680 No.14527280
>>14527243
I hated DkS2 at first because it seemed like such a huge let down and betrayal. I've grown to like the game but still hate the music in Majula and hate the shitty design of Stone Trader Chloanne. Its not the sexuality, but rather that she looks butt ugly like a elderly woman with a fucked up wig and bolt-ons.
>>14527263
Thanks. I painted these >>14526575
and in a rare occasion do request in the draw threads.
bf40f9 No.14527286
>>14527262
I mean that the enemy tracking is ridiculous in that they'll wind up for attacks and follow you through the entire process from start to finish, even if it requires their model to inexplicably spin around as if they were standing on a giant invisible swivel. Or sometimes they'll wind up and not even be tracking you totally during the start and then magically rotate around at the last second exactly where you are.
Combine this with hitbox fuckery and it's a very frustrating experience.
DaSIII does this with some giant overhead smashes that mostly everyone agrees are bullshit when it comes to following player movement and that I think people were commenting on earlier in the thread.
8aa9ee No.14527288
I drooped ds2 the moment i got to the "hub".
Tell me what i missed.
a70e45 No.14527296
>>14527288
10 wasted hours.
d85760 No.14527323
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14527243
>screencaps about people complaining about hard enemies at the start
Dark Souls 2 is the only game in the Dark Souls trilogy that doesn't have a tutorial boss fight, and these are supposedly praised. The ogres are super easy to kill and the dragon is entirely optional if you suck. Fucking git gud.
>>14527243
Majula music is alright, but the place gives off this uneasy feeling.
eff057 No.14527325
>>14526965
>but to act like it's the end of the world when a game runs at 30 just means you need a bullet in your mouth.
Having standards is not a bad thing you battered housewife.
acc6a2 No.14527374
>>14527286
Just dodge before they hit rather than during the windup, the only time tracking bothered me was when NPC invaders did, as they should follow the same rules as the player, Forlorn being the worst example.
3f3989 No.14527390
>>14527374
He's not saying they're impossible to deal with. He's just saying they're frustrating because you have to find ways around their fuckiness instead of them working correctly in the first place.
If enemy hitboxes worked correctly, you could have used a mix of safe distancing and rolling invincibility as part of your strategy. As they work now, you have to rely exclusively on rolling invincibility. That's what's bad about it, it forces you to use that one game mechanic over and over above all others instead of allowing for more variety and for common fucking sense like when you physically see an attack shouldn't hit you but it does anyway
a9f342 No.14527503
>>14526524
Dark Souls 1 also had a shield contest I think the "Giger" Shield you found in Tomb of the Giants.
>>14526596
>>14526611
Not just the jumps and ladders, it screws up the timing and other stuff like pyromancy, projectiles, compare for example combustion at 30FPS and 60FPS.
>>14526921
Where exactly did the weird dancing come from? I mean, I saw the original videos but who came up with that dance?
d85760 No.14527530
>>14527390
Hitboxes are fucked in all the games.
0dcc08 No.14527538
a9f342 No.14527544
>>14527262
More or less like that but walking in place when you circle around them, wind up animations also track until the last second, the worst offenders are the iron clad enemies (turtle armor) because they have a mechanism to prevent backstabs so you would expect to basically stick to one side on them.
>>14527280
If someone made a game in a similar manner (when it comes to respawning and all) what do you think about basically the player character waking up on their safe zone after death? as in "was this a bad dream? a premonition of sorts?" kind of thing.
>>14527286
Not to mention the bunch of enemies that have 360 degree rotating attacks that drain stamina like crazy if they connect even once on the shields.
>>14527323
>Majula music is alright, but the place gives off this uneasy feeling.
That never pays off.
>>14527390
Let's not forget how in DaS3 From doesn't want you to do anything other than retaliating like in bloodborne with a ring that doesn't recover jack shit because they added delayed attacks, crippled shields and crippled parrying.
a9f342 No.14527549
>>14527538
Have you tried attacking a giant soldier in Anor Londo right after a shield smash?
0dcc08 No.14527556
>>14527549
yes thats how I usually fight them since I run around with barely any health I need to wait for the safe zone after the slam to be sure I wont get fucked up
a9f342 No.14527572
>>14527556
The point is, the hitbox on the shield smash lingers after a full second.
0dcc08 No.14527581
>>14527572
I dont think so, I have a char in anor londo right now and will go double check though
a9f342 No.14527601
>>14527581
check it, try to get close as soon as the shield slam hits the floor.
17e680 No.14527714
>>14527544
I don't understand your question.
a9f342 No.14527737
>>14527714
Do you think a totally-not-dark-souls could use the "you died" mechanic by not making you undead but instead making it appear it was some kind of dream or premonition?
978abb No.14527930
>>14526644
>She's my mage waifu who can completely destroy the sentinels
I've run the boss a few times and every time she gets ganged up by 3 of them while I wail on them from behind. Of the 3 times I've fought the boss, twice she's died by them. The third time she was reduced to 1/4th health.
17e680 No.14527972
>>14527737
I guess that could work. why did you ask me?
a9f342 No.14527982
>>14527972
I ask everyone in general.
978abb No.14528017
>>14526392
>My favorite part about the remix is that the enemy placement makes more sense in terms of lore. For example the Dragon in Heide's Tower of Flame.
Why is a dragon right infront of the dragonslayer boss, and why isn't there a dragon infront of the dragonrider boss? how does that make sense? Is the old Dragonslayer just inept in terms of lore? Is the dragonrider boss supposed to just not ride dragons?
>they also added way more fragrant branch of yore and its also a starting gift so you have more starting path options.
That's not the point. Adding more fragrant branches of yore ignores that they made it so that you have to keep backtracking to earlier areas when you didn't have to. It creates more busywork. This is especially annoying on NG+ because they made it so you lose all of your yore branches. So you have to keep backtracking despite only needing to because the devs wanted you to.
A good example is Things Betwixt. It's just the tutorial area in the vanilla game but in Dark Souls 2 you have to go back to it to get the estus flask shard. In some areas of the game they put a statue just to waste the player's time. Like putting a statue infront of the area before Ruin Sentinels for no reason other than to waste the player's time
It's stuff like that, that was just annoying.
9f639b No.14528020
>>14527325
Having autism is, though.
061856 No.14528021
>>14527325
>Having standards is not a bad thing you battered housewife.
This.
>>14527271
Dark Souls 2 is crap we all know that.
978abb No.14528034
>>14527271
>How could anyone talk about Dark souls 2 and not note how incredibly slow it is? Attacking is slow, rolling is slow, enemies are slow.
I actually noticed the opposite, I found that player movement felt slightly faster due to the increased framerate. And that since you don't start with a shield at chargen (unless you pick cleric) you play more experimentally and less defensively at the start of the game. Compared to Dks1 where you start the game just turtling a lot and only really start actively avoiding enemy damage once you git gud.
64930f No.14528039
>>14528017
They put a statue in front of the earliest available standard knight set.
For what purpose? It's not like it's incredible powerful or popular set or anything.
5984d0 No.14528072
>>14526392
>that sword
I forgot how much it bothered me when I first noticed that the 'claymore' in DaS2 wasn't actually a claymore. It's like how they included a bardiche in all three Dark Souls games but managed to give it the wrong name every time.
978abb No.14528075
>>14527323
>Dark Souls 2 is the only game in the Dark Souls trilogy that doesn't have a tutorial boss fight
Dark Souls 2 does have a tutorial boss fight with the Last Giant. It's just that the devs made it an optional fight and not one that you need to do.
>the dragon is entirely optional
Most of the criticism of the dragon is that it's not a good fight. The dragon's fire hits you behind the wall of the stairs and the only difficulty in fighting it is just having to time avoiding it's fire. It's easy as hell in melee. If you look at youtube videos of people doing SotFS Dks2 they almost always cheese the fight with a bow because it's significantly less time consuming.
This is in stark contrast to the bridge dragon in Dark Souls 1 where you could avoid it's flame attacks and fighting it in melee was harder than fighting it at range. It also had more thought put into it's design since it has melee specific moves and reacts to the player. (if the player hides behind the walls to the left and right if flies up and uses an AOE fire attack, if you get behind it, it attacks you with the tail etc).
It's rare I hear someone complain about the Bridge Dragon in Dks1 since it is an optional fight and it's fun to do. Almost everyone complains about the dragon in Dks2 because it's lazy filler content that isn't enjoyable.
978abb No.14528119
>>14528111
>Porting these games to PC were the biggest mistake From ever made
>Allowing people who wouldn't normally play these games and expanding their market reach and fanbase was a mistake
>they should've kept these games locked to outdated consoles that get their online shut down after a few years like DeS did.
978abb No.14528129
Since people keep asking for a list of changes, someone made a google doc with the majority of them
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11k2GoXq5UVLE5qbFK4b_WhCMjqME449dqXheLIVDoGY/edit?usp=sharing
a9f342 No.14528147
>>14528072
What weapon was that one?
eff057 No.14528150
>>14528144
>The community for these games was great when they were console only
Who are you trying to fool retard?
9f38dc No.14528165
>>14528144
You know what's funny? Just today I was invaded by a cheater. I was on a new character in the forest of fallen giants when I got invaded by a guy with a blue name called "Fromsoft Support". He backstab teleported me all the way to Majula where he wanted me to follow his trail of Prism stones to the bonfire where he had set down 23 Divine Blessings. He then killed himself. I had no idea what the fuck had happened so I stood around Majula for a minute. I needed to get back there anyways because I wanted to level up
5984d0 No.14528201
>>14528119
>a few years
To be fair I wouldn't call 9 years just 'a few,' Demon's Souls' servers lasted far longer than anyone thought they would.
>>14528147
Pics related, in 1 and 2 they called it a scythe and in 3 they called it a glaive. I also just remembered that you can get Gundyr's bardiche in 3, but it's called a halberd for whatever reason.
978abb No.14528214
>>14528201
>To be fair I wouldn't call 9 years just 'a few,' Demon's Souls' servers lasted far longer than anyone thought they would.
DeS's servers were originally supposed to go down only a few years after the game did, the only reason they didn't was because people flipped their shit which caused Atlas to move the date forward.
a9f342 No.14528218
>>14528201
I suspected as much.
9f38dc No.14528238
>>14528224
I think they are a mixed bag. Sure you get faggots like Malcom Reynolds who just run around shitting up everyone's games, but then you get some guys like the one I got who either help new characters or fuck around with the scripts to see what they can do to make the game more fun for both parties involved, like the fapper guy or the player boss people.
eff057 No.14528245
>>14528225
yeah the great community of twitch streamers and youtubers who clamored for this shit to get on PC in the first place
9f38dc No.14528317
>>14528276
I don't know, I mess around with III because I hate having no poise. I go offline and then run around in full plate, tanking all of the hits while creaming the enemies with a UGS. If you're a purist, just say so.
b170a6 No.14528415
>>14523090
DS2 was made by the B team, people who had no idea what what a "souls" game was and made a game off the brief they were given, they were probably the team that used to make Armored Core.
978abb No.14528450
>>14528415
>DS2 was made by the B team, people who had no idea what what a "souls" game was and made a game off the brief they were given
DS2 vanilla was however earlier in this thread >>14523218 someone mentioned that SotFS had much of the team from Bloodborne working on it after that game was done. So it's not entirely the B Team's fault.
>they were probably the team that used to make Armored Core.
Miyazaki used to make Armored Core before he started working on DeS. Most likely the company is going to go back to making Armored Core games now that he wants to move away from Dark Souls.
bf40f9 No.14528471
>>14528450
Does NB have the rights to the series or does FROM own them? I wonder how long before they make a DaSIV despite them saying they don't want to. It's kind of interesting that no other studios aside from the guys that did Lords of the Fallen/The Surge have attempted badly to ape the mechanics of the series considering how popular the whole thing is. Can't be that hard to just rip it off can it?
I honestly love the style of these games even if they sometimes piss me off to no end and are often really disappointing. It would just be nice for them to actually finish a game and not have parts throughout that you're pointing to and saying 'oh look here's where they ran out of time/money'.
It'll be interesting to see if Code Vein is any good.
d85760 No.14528473
>>14528075
> isn't enjoyable.
Opinion.
978abb No.14528514
>>14528471
>Does NB have the rights to the series or does FROM own them?
Most likely Namco Bandai owns the rights to the series and they just contract Fromsoft to make new games. I know Miyazaki doesn't want to make a new one and most likely the studio overall doesn't.
Namco Bandai might make another Dark Souls game and hire some of the staff from Fromsoft to work on it. I don't see that happening for a few years though.
>I wonder how long before they make a DaSIV despite them saying they don't want to.
He said he's open to someone else making a new one without him he just feels tired of the series.
>It's kind of interesting that no other studios aside from the guys that did Lords of the Fallen/The Surge have attempted badly to ape the mechanics of the series considering how popular the whole thing is. Can't be that hard to just rip it off can it?
Most games ripped off the invasion mechanic more than the slow delayed attacks and animations. The biggest reason they don't ape those is because it makes combat more complicated to design. (you have to make characters with tons of distinct attack animations and enemies have to accommodate this as well. It makes testing a nightmare).
>>14528473
>A dragon who breathes fire on you from behind a wall, instantly kills you when you try and rush him and if you manage to get past his attack is a fucking joke of a fight
>disliking this lazy design is an opinion
Fromsoft has made good dragon fights in the past. Hell even the bridge dragon in DeS was more interesting since they built an entire level around him and you could walk underneath the bridge to avoid his attacks.
23ec8c No.14528531
>>14528225
>>14528276
>>14528224
>>>/leave/
>>14528471
I think NB has the rights but From have some contractual control over development for creative reasons.
978abb No.14528540
>>14528531
>I think NB has the rights but From have some contractual control over development for creative reasons.
I somewhat see this as unlikely given that Miyazaki has said Fromsoft has no rights to Demon's Souls and Atlus owns it outright. Most likely they have the same deal with Namco Bandai.
23ec8c No.14528568
>>14528540
I'm sure an anon said that was the arrangement in a different thread.
64930f No.14528591
>>14528514
> I know Miyazaki doesn't want to make a new one and most likely the studio overall doesn't.
Miyazaki is the dark souls of Kojima
978abb No.14528609
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14528591
>Miyazaki is the dark souls of Kojima
I think it's moreso that Fromsoft is burnt out on making the same game for 10 years now and they probably wanna do something else.
You can see it with how every Souls game has repeated trends and ideas. Like a dragon with a bridge, a swamp area, etc. It often feels like the devs only had enough ideas for one complete game and just kept reusing them. By comparison at least Hideo Kojima tried varying up every Metal Gear Solid game into it's own thing for better or worse. Like setting MGS3 in a jungle.
Kojima was also trying to complete his long running continuity in the series so he was probably obsessive over completing it.
9e06f5 No.14528717
>>14523205
>>Several of them were black phantoms
Were you playing in the covenant of champions? That doesn't sound normal, not for NG at least.
d85760 No.14528923
>>14528514
>>A dragon who breathes fire on you from behind a wall, instantly kills you when you try and rush him and if you manage to get past his attack is a fucking joke of a fight
>>disliking this lazy design is an opinion
It's lazy design because (You) say so? The getting past the narrow bridge the dragon is cleverly using as a choke point is part of the challenge. The only bad thing happening there is the bad hitboxes on the fire.
ec3c56 No.14528929
978abb No.14528965
>>14528923
It's a reused enemy put there for no reason in a place he's not supposed to be in. Yes I call that a lazy design.
In his original boss location he can actually fly and do other shit other than sit there, breathe fire and let the player kill him.
d85760 No.14528985
>>14528965
The original location is the cage just before you ascend to the dragon area, and then in the dragon area you have two more dragons. It was already reused in the original, but I guess you always need to have something retarded to throw a hissy fit about.
978abb No.14528999
>>14528985
If you kill Ornstein and use a bonfire ascetic and teleport to the bonfire in the chapel, and then walk down to the dragon. It's an even easier fight because he can't breathe fire on you.
By comparison the bridge dragon in Dks1, if you ran to the bonfire under him and used it, he flew away and then would fly back.
d85760 No.14529008
>>14528999
By comparison, Dark Souls literally has no flaws, right?
978abb No.14529028
>>14529008
I'm pointing out how Scholar made decisions that were clearly last minute changes by the designer and had very little thought put into them. You can also see it with how they would shove fights into the game that didn't fit like putting No Man's Wharf's boss into the area right before Lost Sinner despite him not fitting through the door and the chambers with the Undead Aberrations now being vacant. Or making Belfry Luna pointless and making it trivially easy to light up Lost Sinner's boss fight whereas before you had to choose whether or not you wanted to fight the Gargoyles.
Almost all of the decisions made to the spawns in Dark Souls 2 feel completely unnecessary like the designers were trying to fix something that wasn't broken. There are changes that make more sense like making some sets more easily obtained rather than being heavily rng dependent like in the vanilla game but for every 1 step forward I see 2 or 3 steps back.
d781d6 No.14529045
>>14528985
>the dragon was copied in the original version too, therefore your point is invalid
no, faggot. It was always shit, and the copying was always bad design, before the re release
eff057 No.14531416
>>14528276
>Exactly my fucking point.
Your point was PC players ruined the community, the cancer was in the community long before the game even got a PC port.
5cdbd2 No.14531434
>>14531416
nah, total biscuits following infesting the community had a much worse effect than people reposting obscure japanese webcomic translations being interested.
b622e8 No.14531439
>He likes Meme Souls
Yes because a game that is based around story should be artificially hard so only the most autistic of users can play it. Wow 10/10 game.
a9f342 No.14531467
>>14531416
I was going to do my stuttering apologist act but I rather not, you know that thing where some people keep saying that console games should stay in console and the like.
7dcf45 No.14531478
>>14529008
By comparison Dark Souls 2 has much more numerous and severe flaws.
What kind of pathetic cock sucker sits around defending dark souls 2? Kill yourself.
>>14531439
Piss poor bait.
159dfa No.14531501
>>14531416
I wouldn't say that, the game was pretty niche before it got a PC port and/or all that streamer attention. IIRC at the time I was still dicking around with the likes of skyrim and new vegas. Dark Souls changed how I viewed videogames.
b533b8 No.14531902
I know that this game has a pseudo sunbro covenant but does it have the sunbro armor ?
>>14531439
>artificially hard
You You!