/v/ - Video Games

>>14513971

So you're saying Mega Man is the Dark Souls of the NES?

>>14513971

Dark Souls 3 is reduced to two button combat, positioning isn't important any more and you just hit dodge/attack alternately until you win.

>>14513971

Dark Souls is only 'hard' because it's bad at explaining itself without trial and error, that's just bad game design. Setting that aside however it's still an amazing game I just don't know why fags have to big up the pseudo-difficulty instead of the actual gameplay, the top-tier atmosphere and so on.

>>14513971

This isn't any different from any game ever made that isn't randomly generated you fucking idiot.

>>14513971

I remember picking up Demon's Souls when Yahtzee bashed it, because the dark minimalist narrative sounded great. I returned it like a turd: 'is the whole fucking game about being unable to cancel animations?'. Yes. Yes, it was. I can't fathom the memekids who got in love with this kind of artificial difficulty, you lot are like abused children passing on the trauma.

>>14514003

>Being unable to cancel animations

>Artificial difficulty

Holy shit

I really hope this is bait

>>14514003

It wasn't particularly hard. Have you ever completed a videogame that was actually challenging?

>>14514014

>omg I can't even

>>14514015

I'm from the NES generation and to me a game is its controls. You can describe a game effectively by explaining exactly what happens, and how when you use the controller. The action queue system of DS that roots you in place until you complete the attack animation, takes away control from the player and I can't stand it.

>Dark souls is hard

>>>/cuckchan/

>>14514014

>everything I don't agree with is bait

Leave.

>>14513986

>Dark Souls is only 'hard' because it's bad at explaining itself without trial and error,

That's such bullshit though. It's hard because if you fuck up the game will punish your ass hard. So you get shit like, normalfags running into a group of enemies and getting chainstunned to death.

>>14514088

That would be true if I was disagreeing with an opinion, not a statement of fact that is objectively false

Kill yourself, you illiterate nigger

>>14514084

>Considering most NES games don't allow you to cancel attack animations, you're full of shit. 2/10, try harder next time.

Don't be a retarded halfchanner with me, kid. That was neither the point addressed, nor something that can be quickly analyzed here. It was the importance of controls, which game stems from, as my no.1 criteria accumulated from my history.

When you hear an opinion unlike the memes you are used to reply to, don't shut it down like a faggot because the instructions to deal with it aren't clear.

>>14514120

>t. jim sterling

Remember all those times in school you botched all those questions, because you simply don't know shit? That's all behind you, because now everything you say is actually magical opinion that's always right

>>14514120

Wow, it's almost like it isn't an opinion

Dark Souls 2 remains the only difficult Souls game, especially those without friends.

>>14514143

>instructions to deal with it aren't clear.

Is the game supposed to explain basic fucking timing and positioning in text instead of through practice?

>>14514107

It's 'hard' because it doesn't really explain what's fucking up and what isn't and punishes basically any fuckup with death. Spending all your titanite shards upgrading your armor is fucking up, but there's no way to tell that until after you've already spent them all. Bringing your armor from +0 to +3 doesn't actually change the number of attacks it takes for enemies to kill you (since only ultrahigh defense values do that) but bringing your weapon from +0 to +5 changes the number of attacks it takes you to kill an enemy from 5 to 1.

There's no fucking way to tell that that is the case until after you've upgraded because there's no actual explanation on how damage works or to what degree the numbers actually change gameplay. Increasing defense by 30 is fuck-all while increasing attack by 30 is substantial, and then you get stupid bullshit like increasing a weapon's attack rating decreasing the damage. Hell, if you pick the wrong classes, the game doesn't even have its pseudo-tutorial on weight affecting roll and movespeed, so you might assume that you HAVE to fatroll through the game because it is the only roll.

There's also the fact that item descriptions and stat screens on items lie constantly. The catarina set does not improve parrying. Break curse does not break curses. The tiny being's ring does not regenerate hp. The pyromancy flame does not scale with intelligence.

If someone explains the mechanics to you the game is a fucking cakewalk.

>>14514151

Opinions and people can still be retarded even though there's no objectivity to them.

>>14514171

>Implying it isn't commonly posted around these parts

Look who's new

>>14514177

Yeah you're right. I was going to mention that you basically have to look up the item progression in this game because it's extremely unintuitive and vague. Although, I didn't even really acknowledge that part because it's something that's becoming pretty common.

>>14514204

There's also the whole modify/upgrade weapon mess of interface design. Going from +4 to +5 is an upgrade, but +5 to +6 is a modification? That makes no goddamn sense from a user interface PoV and I've yet to see anyone play through that game for the first time and not get fucking boggled for 5+ minutes trying to figure out what the fuck is going on.

Except for myself who got boggled on the second playthrough since the first playthrough was with a wizard stick.

>>14514173

Holy shit, I hope you're baiting and not that dumb. The 'instructions to deal with' are for an uncommon opinion, I was telling you to think for a second before spouting memes.

>>14514161

>retard

>autist

>abloobloo

Just tell me why someone who values good gaming over community cred, should bother with a game that makes control unresponsivity a part of its gameplay. From my point of view, you are willing to take it in the ass for the sole purpose of boasting with your retarded friends.

>the rest of the thread

No, I'm not going to keep at this because I'm old enough to know that beating your gums is useless. But it is telling how fast you start acting out whenever a new observation flanks you from the left field.

>>14514242

>Just tell me why someone who values good gaming over community cred, should bother with a game that makes control unresponsivity a part of its gameplay.

cuz classicvanias are fun and well-designed

or are you the kind of babby who can't handle a lack of mid-air control

>>14514189

Look who got baited and buttfrustated, are you 16?

>>14514107

Being punished for a mistake you had no way of avoiding without prior knowledge of the situation is not good game design.

>>14514311

> in spots you couldn't see

Here's your punchline: If there's a blind corner, there's an enemy to the left. It is always to the left. And there are only two or three blind corners where it is not true. I figured that out by the lower undead burg.

>>14514274

I played all Castlevanias up to SOTN within one year of release. The jump physics that you call mid-air control are not something I'm criticizing with DS: the direct comparison would be the whip animation, but that lasts less than a second so it causes no loss of control (and to further aid you, in some cases enemies freeze when hit).

Please do not shield the faults of your memegame with poor Castlevania, which is having a rough time.

>>14514242

>Having to commit to attacks is unresponsive control

>The only reason people play DaS is for community cred

Kill yourself

>>14514311

>Boasting to retard friends

>On an anonymous image board

Yes, it would be really pathetic if it happened.

It happens all the time.

>God of War

I've never played any game of the GOW saga. But I played the 4 DMCs and plenty other 3D brawlers where canceling was definitely a thing. Those are the kind of games that you should be comparing to DS, not bringing up 2D castlevanias because you need noble fathers. Prove that your game is its own thing and stands on its merits.

>It sounds like you just want rapid fire shit that hits the entire screen

Non sequitur, you might as well accuse me of wanting DS to be COD and Neptunia combined. Should I confess this, to make you feel better that you have no arguments?

>>14514334

> The jump physics that you call mid-air control are not something I'm criticizing with DS: the direct comparison would be the whip animation

No, dipshit. Every single action in both castlevania and DS is high committal. You cannot affect a jump's momentum in Castlevania if you didn't see a medusa head, so if you jumped with poor situational awareness you're fucked.

If you whip, you stop moving. You can't cancel the whip, you can't throw a subweapon while the whip is out, you can't jump out of the whip. Yes, the time you spend with your feet glued to the ground is shorter than some DS attacks, but it's longer than others dependent on the weapon you're using. It is 100% a loss of control, you fucking retard. Castlevania, Dark Souls, and Silent Hill are all based around the same core story/gameplay mechanic of high-committal actions invoking a sense of misery and stress in the player.

>(and to further aid you, in some cases enemies freeze when hit).

There's this mechanic called 'poise breaks' where if you deal more poise damage to an enemy than it has poise, it doesn't just stop moving, it gets knocked backwards, gets stunned, has its current action interrupted. Most enemies have zero poise. It is a greater reward than landing an attack in Castlevania, but is balanced out by the stamina meter forcing you to attack sparingly rather than mash the button.

Dark Souls is almost exactly analogous to Castlevania's high committal at virtually every level of design.

>>14514355

>But I played the 4 DMCs and plenty other 3D brawlers where canceling was definitely a thing. Those are the kind of games that you should be comparing to DS,

Why? Because they're both 3D? 3D brawlers are almost universally low committal to keep up a fun, fast, exciting pace. You get locked into animations for very short amounts of time to make the game feel snappy and exciting. Dark Souls is not supposed to be snappy and exciting. It's not a game where you rail grind down a banister while scarfing down pizza. It's trying to feel miserable and depressing. It's a game where you mercy kill a wounded and berserk hero after he failed his mission and doomed a civilization.

>>14514355

I find it kinda funny you bring up DMC, because I recall the first DMC having really long animations for the sword that you couldn't cancel. Unless there is some exploit I didn't know about.

>Should I confess this, to make you feel better that you have no arguments?

And what's your argument? "It's like the 3d games I don't like"? You do what liberals do. Start with the objective "You can't cancel animations". Then you bring it into the subjective while acting like everything you say is fact, and throwing snarky insults around to frame the argument.

>>14514242

Wow you truly are retarded

>>14514384

>these 3D brawlers have nothing in common, let's compare them to 2D Castlevania instead

None of the mechanics you are listing about Castlevania has any relevance with the discussion of Dark Souls. It's useless that I keep telling you that the medusa scenario does not compare to swinging a sword: this isn't the same kind of game. Same it's useless that I bring you more 2D games that don't work like this (literally hundreds): they simply have no relationship with the 3D brawler genre.

You made this little tale in your head where Castlevania is the Dark Souls of 2D platformers. Good for you, just don't expect people to believe this bullshit ok?

>>14514338

>Having to commit to attacks is unresponsive control

And get punished if I have the reflexes to cancel or parry? That makes me feel gamed, like this isn't what controls should work like: to you it sounds like a noble feature - honestly I think you learned to like a shitty system from social pressure.

>The only reason people play DaS is for community cred

Yes, so? Is this a little secret we can't talk about? Don't try and make me believe your years upon years of DaS general were just because of fun, when the whole genre was built on the 'git gud' badge of honor. Or did you think that everyone else was on board and weren't judging you fags?

cringy thread tbh

>>14514389

>Start with the objective

>Then you bring it into the subjective

>and throwing snarky insults

Did you learn this shit on reddit? Because normally, over here liberals are just called communist kikes.

>>14514655

>high committal gameplay has nothing to do with high committal gameplay because i said so

I accept your concession that you have lost the argument.

>>14514003

Fuckin eh anon, just git gud.

>>14514655

>Don't try and make me believe your years upon years of DaS general were just because of fun, when the whole genre was built on the 'git gud' badge of honor

Do you have a learning disability

>>14514311

>That's true. I haven't played the other games because I don't have a bloodborne box or PS3, but DaS1 would hide enemies in spots you couldn't see constantly. Which was straight up bullshit.

It's really one of the few times the term cheap can be applied fairly.

>A hard game is not that hard when you know what to do

WOOOOOOOW

>>14514295

>>14514311

Can't you see almost any ambush coming in the first game as long as you pay attention? The only exception is blind corners, which aren't a fucking problem if you're not running in blindly like a retard.

>>14513971

>Dark Souls is hard AT FIRST, but becomes easy as soon as you know any given level's layout.

Isn't that true of any game that doesn't have procedural level generation and completely randomized spawning?

>>14515968

Nu-/v/ trying too hard to fit in.

>>14516032

Yea, you can see everything coming in DaS1 if you are not retarded. There are plenty of things to criticise DaS1 on but trial and error isnt one of them.

Megaman is easy once you get a full grasp of the controls it doesn't matter if it's a game you haven't played before. Once you're good at one megaman you're good at them all

>>14513971

> becomes easy as soon as you know any given level's layout.

What? The difficulty doesn't come from traversing the levels, that's the easy part. The difficulty comes from learning how to interact with the enemies correctly and managing your stamina.

>>14513976

He's saying that, once you put in enough practice and memorization into a game like Mega Man or Dark Souls: what once was dauntingly hard becomes a piece of cake.

If a game has a lot of randomization or procedural generation in its levels and placement of items and enemies then it may not be "Mega Man Hard" because you can't reliably memorize where everything is.

>>14518490

It's a meme you dip.

>>14514177

>Spending all your titanite shards upgrading your armor is fucking up

>bringing your weapon from +0 to +5 changes the number of attacks it takes you to kill an enemy from 5 to 1

This isn't that big of a problem because titanite is not a finite resource. I agree when you say that it's a mistake for the player to upgrade their armor instead of their weapons, and I agree that the game doesn't explain how damage is calculated, but I don't think it's that difficult to figure out. If you look in your equipment screen, you'll notice that weapons have a base damage and they deal extra damage in tandem with your stats. This implies that if you improve your stats, you'll be able to do more damage. Additionally, you encounter Andre of Astora early on in the game, and he explains the forging process in so many words. He sells the titanite that you need to get your weapons to at least +5; if you're a new and curious player, would you not decide to further explore some of the game's systems by forging your equipment as much as you are able to do so? If not, then why?

>if you pick the wrong classes, the game doesn't even have its pseudo-tutorial on weight affecting roll and movespeed, so you might assume that you HAVE to fatroll through the game because it is the only roll.

Early on in the game, you can find additional sets of armor. Any curious player will try and figure out how to equip and remove pieces of armor. Each piece of armor has a number that represents how much it adds to your equip burden. If you're observant, you can notice that your roll changes depending on what type of armor you have on.

Yes, you're right; these concepts are not explained in some video tutorial that provides an in depth explanation on how the underlying mechanics operate. However, it's not as obtuse as you make it out to be; if you're curious enough, you'll eventually learn how the systems work. Everything you need to know is in your equipment screen. There's even an explanation button that can highlight various components of the character and equipment screens that will provide a brief explanation on what each component means. How hard can this be to figure out?

>>14514226

>Going from +4 to +5 is an upgrade, but +5 to +6 is a modification?

No, going from base level to +5 is an upgrade, but going from +5 to +6 is a modification. From there, you go to +6 to +10. Then, from +10 to +11, and you can finally reach +15. When you find an ember in the world, you can go into your inventory and read its item description. It will tell you that it allows you to upgrade weapons up to a certain level. If you take any of the embers to Andre, he'll tell you whether or not he can use them. If he doesn't want them, then this implies that there may be someone else out there who can use it, and sure enough, you find out that there's more than one blacksmith in the game.

I agree, the game doesn't give a robust and in depth explanation of everything, but at the same time, it's not that difficult to figure out how these things work. I'm just wondering if you think that the game would have been better with a Navi like character who explains every little fucking thing?

The key difference is that Dark Souls doesn't boot you back to the title screen and make you start from the undead asylum after 3 deaths.

>>14518284

remember 5-1?

>>14515954

Then it was never a hard game in the first place.

>>14518490

>He doesn't know there's an endless mode for megaman

This alone shows your claim as false

>>14518701

>This isn't that big of a problem because titanite is not a finite resource

It's a mistake that's impossible to see coming that is undone by tedious grinding. The rest of your words on the topic do not matter, because punishing an impossible-to-predict trap with tedium is shit design because TEDIUM is shit design.

>If you're observant, you can notice that your roll changes depending on what type of armor you have on.

If you start knight, you're fatrolling from the get-go. If you pick up other armor, you'll notice its stats are lower and therefore it is worse armor and not bother equipping it. You then assume that fatroll is just how the game works because you have no reason to believe otherwise and stack up as much weight as you can without going over 100%.

The game actually tutorializes weight/roll mechanics (though it doesn't make clear where the cutoff is) exceptionally well for a shitload of classes! You see, bandit, sorcerer, and many others have their armor put them right at a roll threshhold, so that when you equip your weapon and shield, your roll gets worse and the player is left trying to figure out why. That's excellent design. That's a perfect silent tutorial. That's on the level of Super Metroid's player training.

Knight and pyromancer do not do that. Knight is perma-fatroll, pyro is perma-lightroll. This is a bit of a giant fucking problem when knight is practically the mascot class since it was used in all the advertisements and is one of the most commonly picked starting classes for a new player. That's really bad! It means that most players won't be trained to notice anything other than "don't use dodging" and "get defense numbers as high as you can." When paired with knight's high-stability starter shield there's even less reason for them to assume that the game expects them to use the dodge button.

>all that shit about weapon upgrades

hey retard i know how the game fucking works but that doesn't mean the UI is designed well

>It will tell you that it allows you to upgrade weapons up to a certain level.

Which you don't do by going into the upgrade menu which throws everyone for a loop because it makes no sense from an interface standpoint.

>>14519069

>It's a mistake that's impossible to see coming that is undone by tedious grinding

It's a mistake that can still be remedied, so your words on the topic do not matter, because anyone with a modicum of intelligence will be able to see that titanite is not a finite resource

>If you start knight, you're fatrolling from the get-go. If you pick up other armor, you'll notice its stats are lower and therefore it is worse armor and not bother equipping it

>If you pick up other armor, you'll notice that its stats are lower

>that it's stats are lower

Hey, fucktard, don't you remember saying that

<Bringing your armor from +0 to +3 doesn't actually change the number of attacks it takes for enemies to kill you

What's the implication here, dipshit? You want me to spell it out? It's simple. If you concede that armor is generally ineffective as a defensive mechanism, then you can't try to feed me this line about how you think an armor set with slightly higher stats is somehow more compelling when it reduces your mobility so badly that you'll end up dying while trying to avoid incoming attacks. If you try and imply that a new player won't know this, then this says more about your lack of faith in a new player's intelligence than it does about the system in question. New players have everything they need to know explained to them by the equipment and character screens and this is supplemented by character dialogue.

>The game actually tutorializes weight/roll mechanics

>bandit, sorcerer, and many others have their armor put them right at a roll threshold so that […when you equip gear that puts your equip burden over the threshold…] your roll gets worse and the player is left trying to figure out why

>[…bullshit about how your gear affects your movement…] there's even less reason for them to assume that the game expects them to use the dodge button.

>reason to assume

>assume

Read the above. The same thing applies here. New players who are interested in learning about the game's systems will experiment with their equipment and make an attempt to learn about how it affects their character's status. If you're not a complete idiot and you observe the game's systems instead of making stupid assumptions, you will come to learn about equip burden in due time. If you're wearing heavy armor that gives you a slow roll, and you learn how to remove armor, then try to roll again, you will notice that your roll speed changes. This alone will tell you that there is a balance between armor type and mobility, and any intelligent player will keep this in mind in the event that it becomes relevant later on. If you wear armor that is ineffective at absorbing enemy damage, then you may opt to avoid damage all together by removing armor and using your increased mobility to your advantage.

>hey retard i know how the game fucking works but that doesn't mean the UI is designed well

hey retard the UI is perfectly fine the way it is. What does the UI have to do with weapon forging? Are you trying to suggest that this isn't a straightforward and easily understood component of the game? Why don't you try explaining in further detail, I am interested in your 'not an argument'.

> You don't [forge your weapons] by going into the upgrade menu, which throws everyone for a loop because it makes no sense from an interface standpoint.

What the fuck are you talking about? Upgrade menu? There is no upgrade menu. There are blacksmiths. You speak to one and you have various options. You have

>Modify Equipment

>Reinforce Weapon

>Reinforce Armor

>Repair Equipment

>Purchase Item

>Learn Gesture

>Talk

>Leave

So, which one of these words do you not understand? Do you not understand the difference between 'reinforce' and 'modify'? I'll be charitable and say that you're not totally fucking retarded and you're genuinely trying to learn about the game. If you go into the Modify Equipment menu, nothing will be available unless you have a weapon that can currently be modified. Any reasonable player will notice this and try another option. The very next option is Reinforce Weapon, and it gives you an equipment screen. All base level weapons will show up here, and you will be able to see how much titanite it will require in order to take the weapon from its current level to one higher level.

By the way, you still haven't answered my previous question. I asked:

>I'm just wondering if you think that the game would have been better with a Navi like character who explains every little fucking thing?

So, what is it, champ? You too stupid to figure this shit out on your own? Need a babby mode to help you navigate the world?

>>14519317

>It's a mistake that can still be remedied, so your words on the topic do not matter

I would also like to add that it's not really as tedious as you think when you consider that most weapons can be used pretty well with only +3-5 which costs a pretty small amount of shards. The only really retarded thing you could do is use STR weapons when you're focused on DEX or something. In which case you deserve to fucking fail for being such a counter active dipshit.

>>14514003

>Yahtzee

>artificial difficulty

>waaah I'm retarded and swung my greatsword sword at the wrong time and can't immediately cancel it like

>why does this game expect me to carefully chose my attacks and how I commit to them

Go back to Reddit you unbelievably unbearable casual faggot.

>>14513983

You could say that about any of them

they've always been glorified R1 & dodge simulators

>>14519317

>It's a mistake that can still be remedied,

with tedious grinding which is bad

>but it's not THAT much grinding

grinding is bad. games should not have grinding.

>you concede that armor is generally ineffective as a defensive mechanism, then you can't try to feed me this line about how you think an armor set with slightly higher stats is somehow more compelling

Can and will, because I'm speaking of a new player's expectations based on how literally every single game they have played worked. If you know the game, you know defense is worthless and you should lightroll. If you don't, you don't, and assume defense is worthwhile. This is why new players invest in stats like resistance, because they do not know that defense is a trap. They literally cannot know that ahead of time. That is Bad Design™.

>New players who are interested in learning about the game's systems will experiment with their equipment and make an attempt to learn about how it affects their character's status.

That's a bit like saying 'well players curious about the game might try jumping into the bottom of bowser's foot to defeat him.' I cannot think of a single other series with percentile weight that applies weight penalties below 100%. They have no reason to assume that Dark Souls does. If they're starting knight and don't pick up any heavier weapons or shields, they're going to need to strip off half their armor for no particular reason. If they found the zweihander and picked up a new shield, they will actually need strip naked to even notice an effect which goes against not just all game logic but also against real life logic. If they started knight the game gives them no reason to experiment with that and virtually all prior experience they have with games will tell them there's no benefit to doing that. If they did something like Nioh did, where the equip load percentage changed colors based on your weight, then they'd have a reason to expect something to change. It's exceptionally poor player training in a series that often has a lot of good player training and that has even done adequate player training within that exact same circumstance on that exact mechanic on other classes. Simply making the knight's starting armor lighter, such as by swapping out the chest piece for the chain armor, would have fixed that problem.

>There is no upgrade menu.

>the menu you go into to upgrade your weapons isn't an upgrade menu because it has a different name

m8

>Do you not understand the difference between 'reinforce' and 'modify'?

I really don't grasp why you're assuming that I'm the one who doesn't understand this stuff. No, I completely get how it works. I even understand the underlying shitty coding practices that forced them to create a modify equipment and a reinforce weapon option rather than anything sane like they did in any other game in the series. What I am saying is that it causes confusion for a first-time player the first time they try to upgrade a weapon to +6. Yes, they can figure it out eventually. They shouldn't need to.

>So, what is it, champ? You too stupid to figure this shit out on your own? Need a babby mode to help you navigate the world?

I had assumed from the paragraph about player training when you equip weapons that I had up there you'd be able to extrapolate what I thought the game needed more of, but I guess you're too inexperienced in game design to actually get what the hell I'm talking about.

I want better done and more consistent player training. There's a tremendous amount of times where the game either out-and-out lies about what things do or completely fails to explain that certain mechanics even exist. I'm not saying that you need a navi to explain that, because that isn't player training, I'm suggesting something like what happens after you get the morph ball in Super Metroid: You cannot exit that room until you have figured out how it works. It's not a tutorial, per se, it doesn't interrupt the flow of gameplay, it is designing the world and mechanics in a way that organically teaches the player what things do and how they behave. Dark Souls does that very well in a lot of places but fucks it up pretty badly in others. I want the fuckups removed.

>>14520234

>with tedious grinding which is bad

It's not that tedious unless you're so shit that you have to fight a boss at maxed wep levels. You can honestly beat the game with +6 or so weapons.

>grinding is bad. games should not have grinding.

Well if you're fucking retarded and put more focus into defense than offense then what's what you get.

>This is why new players invest in stats like resistance

And any player that puts to much focus into 1 stat is fucking retarded period. The game will not tank you just because you put 8 or so extra levels into resistance but it will if you put ALL of your soul points into it like a fucking retard.

Honestly reading through your whole post makes me think you're some assmad contrarian who decided to do retarded things in a game and was rightfully punished for it. I mean fuck I burned a firekeepers soul twice before I realized what they were for and even invested nearly 60 levels into my stamina bar and even then I beat the game with a basic claymore and shield.

TL;DR bitch elsewhere. Your complaints are entirely to specific and retarded to take seriously.

>>14520294

>It's not that tedious

Wow, congratulations for saying almost exactly what I greentexted your reply would be in that post, you fucking idiot.

I'm sorry you can't handle the fact that Dark Souls is a game with flaws. Perhaps reddit is more your pace? I've heard they suck that game off constantly there.

>>14520320

>congratulations for saying almost exactly what I greentexted your reply would be in that post, you fucking idiot.

And congrats for not even reading what was posted. It's not the games fault you decided to be a nigger and put all of your resources into 1 aspect. If you weren't retarded you would conclude that you would need more damage for your weapon after getting to the first smith in undead burg. Multiple enemies have enough HP for this to b a basic thought that you should consider and instead you being a contrarian faggot thought that you should put it all in defense for absolutely no viable reason.

>I'm sorry you can't handle the fact that Dark Souls is a game with flaws.

And I'm sorry that you're such a mouth breathing kind of player that you actively try and make your retarded mistakes into flaws.

>>14520320

I need to ask you, how garbage are you at DS that you need to grind TITANITE? You can have all of your weapons you use at +10 when you get to Anal Rodeo. It's natural progression. You can either use the souls you got from killing enemies for levels or you can BUY the shards for 800 a pop. The large ones and chunks are shit you pick up since the first Black Knight in Undead Burg. If you need to grind to pick up shards, you might be fucking retarded and missing a chromosome.

>>14520234

>What I am saying is that it causes confusion for a first-time player the first time they try to upgrade a weapon to +6. Yes, they can figure it out eventually. They shouldn't need to.

>shouldn't need to

So, again, I have to ask. How would you have solved this "issue"? I am not trying to be dismissive, I'm really trying to be charitable here, but I just don't see how these systems, as they are currently presented in the game, are all that difficult for anyone to understand. I am not trying to imply that you can't somehow understand the game, I have been approaching these so called "problems" from a new player's perspective this whole time. Would you be satisfied if Andre took the time to explain the difference between reinforcement and modification? If so, then you should know that he does. Would you be satisfied with a visual aid, like pic related, being implemented somewhere in the game? If the developers made these concessions, then ultimately the game's mystique would've been undermined, and they likely wanted to give curious players, who have a sense of intrigue about the world, a reason to explore. The vague item descriptions and the lack of bright neon signs that explain everything great detail largely aid in this endeavor.

>I want better done and more consistent player training. There's a tremendous amount of times where the game either out-and-out lies about what things do or completely fails to explain that certain mechanics even exist.

>the game out-and-out lies

Please name one example of a lie that the game tells you about its systems.

> I'm suggesting something like what happens after you get the morph ball in Super Metroid: You cannot exit that room until you have figured out how it works. It's not a tutorial, per se, it doesn't interrupt the flow of gameplay, it is designing the world and mechanics in a way that organically teaches the player what things do and how they behave. Dark Souls does that very well in a lot of places but fucks it up pretty badly in others. I want the fuckups removed.

You think that because some classes are equipped with heavy armor that gives the character a slow roll that the concept of equip burden is not adequately explained? Even though the equipment screen will spell out to you in plain English that you have an equip burden?

>>14513971

That's why every time I beat a boss I saved somewhere hard to get out of, waited a few months until I forgot the controls, then went to beat the next one. Didn't expect to enjoy it that much.

>>14520234

>complaining about grinding in an RPG

I hope I came into this conversation at the wrong time.

>>14520475

His argument doesn't even make any fucking sense since the only grinding in Souls games is mostly for armor drops. Upgrade material grinding was only fucked in Demon's fuck you pure bladestone, you fucking bitch.

>>14520475

It's now the new contrarian meme to shit on Dark Souls without having played it.

>>14520379

>>14520364

Again with these assumptions that I'm bad at the game instead of talking about a new player's first experience! Do you really think someone who knows that resistance is bad would be so bad at the game they invest in resistance? Use your head!

>some people find grinding fun!

Some people enjoy putting needles in their dick too.

> who operates like that?

Virtually all people. No, seriously, use the internet and watch a blind playthrough of any videogame. Virtually everyone assumes the game will work like their prior experiences. I have seen people trying to inhale enemies and press down to copy an enemy's power in a fucking Sonic the Hedgehog game.

>Suddenly you need a reason to strip off your armor?

Yes? In 99% of games removing equipment offers no benefit. Seriously, find me non-souls RPGs where removing equipment improves your character's abilities and the item is not in some way cursed.

> I already pointed out how your equipment and character screens offer you convenient and easy to understand explanations of all the various variables that are currently affecting your character

The equip burden doesn't actually explain what it does, and it is perfectly rational to assume the penalties start at >100% since that is what a lot of games do.

>b-but you're saying the player will make assumptions based on prior experience

yes that is what humans do and it is one of the singularly most important things to work around when designing a videogame. super metroid placed a dead end to the right because everyone assumes you go right in a 2d platformer and it needed to establish that the game did not work that way and was instead based around exploration. every single player will come in with expectations based on prior experience of similar games and you need to design around that. that is what makes designing good games so fucking hard: you need to manage perceptions and expectations that were not established by your own game while creating new perceptions and exceptions unique to your game.

>They did do this. The number that represents your equip burden will turn red if you go over 70% of your maximum threshold.

Not in Dark Souls 1, the game that I am talking about, and it wouldn't even be that value in Dark Souls 1 because 70% is not one of the cutoff values. The number turns red when your equip load goes up. Have you even played this game?

>>14520381

>So, again, I have to ask. How would you have solved this "issue"?

Same way they did in every other souls game: Reinforce weapon can bring a weapon to +15 with no fuckery, modify weapon changes the weapon's path. They can't actually do this in Dark Souls 1 because the engine is set up so that every piece of equipment had 6 upgrade levels (zero to five) and have to replace a +5 weapon with a different weapon ID that's the +0 upgraded version of the second tier of the normal physical upgrade path that's called +6. It's completely fucked.

>Please name one example of a lie that the game tells you about its systems.

The thief class on the character creation screen says that it has a high chance of critical hits, implying that like in almost every game, critical hits are based on chance. This is in turn compounded by the fact that people who don't understand how status effects work, what they do, or how they are inflicted (ie new players who haven't been hit by a status effect yet) will see the bandit knife seemingly randomly cause high amounts of damage (which they will assume is a critical hit rather than filling an invisible bleed meter.)

>>14520475

Just because virtually every game within a genre uses a stupid design element does not make the design element non-stupid.

This comment is so fantastically stupid I'm putting it all alone on its own post

>Every strategy is a valid strategy until it is proven to be ineffective.

You have never and should never even attempt to design a game, holy fuck. Do you know how many potential strategies there can be for something? Infinite. Attempting to get a boss to kill you on a specific pixel and working process of elimination to have a death on every pixel JUST IN CASE IT'S A VALID STRATEGY is not a thing people actually do. Do you know why? Because it's fucking retarded, and yet, according to you, it's perfectly valid.

EVERY SINGLE FUCKING GAME IN EXISTENCE IS BASED AROUND TRAINING THE PLAYER TO EXPECT CONSISTENT BEHAVIOR AND TO EXTRAPOLATE WHAT THEY NEED TO DO BASED ON PRIOR EXPERIENCE

Games where you have to do something that goes completely against everything the game has trained you up until now are generally famous FOR BEING COMPLETE GARBAGE.

AT ITS MOST BASIC, GOOD GAME DESIGN IS TEACHING THE PLAYER A RULE AND ALLOWING THEM TO PREDICT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT FROM THAT RULE

Breaking these rules or failing to establish rules means you have a shitty game (barring the odd case where you trained the player to expect the rules to be broken). You do not make jumps suddenly move you downwards through the ground in Mario. You don't suddenly give rings a 1% chance of instantly killing you in Sonic. The entire reason Castlevania 2 is so infamous is because it completely and utterly failed to establish consistent rules. The player has no reason to expect crouching at a specific location while holding certain equipment summons a tornado that teleports them somewhere else.

>>14520574

>Some people enjoy putting needles in their dick too.

Some people deserve to have needles in their dicks for being so fucking retarded at playing games.

>Virtually everyone assumes the game will work like their prior experiences.

What was yours? Nigger simulator? All you have to do in Dark Souls to not grind in the least is not be a fucking retard and spend all your shit in 1 area. Jesus christ stop posting, you genuinely may be the autist from all those webms with the faggot with the nasely voice. Somebody post him.

>>14520574

Grinding comes in many forms, and if its your first time in Dark Souls you'll probably end up grinding, but if you've played a couple of times and you're short on souls for, say, twinkling titanite, you'll just pop some boss souls you don't need. Grinding for rare drops is another conversation entirely.

>>14520637

>Grinding comes in many forms, and if its your first time in Dark Souls you'll probably end up grinding, but if you've played a couple of times and you're short on souls for, say, twinkling titanite, you'll just pop some boss souls you don't need.

Or pull off any number of a half-fuckbillion glitches that get you shitloads of souls and/or items for no effort, but yes, grinding is only a thing for new players.

>>14520657

> If you don't enjoy the game's PRIMARY APPEAL, then you should just stop playing it.

Grinding is not the primary appeal. Repeatedly backstabbing a half-dozen balder knights for 30 minutes is not its primary appeal. You are being exceptionally disingenuous.

>What I asked you about, and what you conveniently try to ignore, is how you'd solve this game's supposed "problem with conveyance". That's one of your original points of contention, wasn't it?

I just fucking told you. It does not convey that you need to go to modify weapon to do what is, from the player's perception, the same thing they've already done 5 times. Simply changing it to the upgrade system used in the other Souls game makes the upgrade menu intuitive enough to require zero tutorial and zero figuring out wtf it's supposed to do. That's literally all it takes to fix it.

If you're talking about various other problems with conveyance that the game has, that's a very lengthy list each with its own fix. The critical hits blunder, for instance, would be fixed by making the status effect buildup bars visible on enemies, just like Nioh did. Yes you'd still want a non-shit translation there but that visual feedback alone tells the player everything they need to know about status effects and it does it as soon as it is relevant.

>and not some deliberate attempt at malice.

Never once have I claimed it was deliberate malice, m80. Like virtually every other game in existence, the flaws stem from a lack of resources, be it time, testing, money, whatever.

> Still, this is not a point in your favor, because anyone with an IQ above 100 will be able to easily understand how the equip burden affects your movement speed.

Which I did the moment I equipped the sorcerer's catalyst because I did not play a knight. I noticed this problem when my friend played a knight. Holy fuck, how many times do I have to fucking repeat it to get it through your thick fucking head that I'm not talking about my own experiences in the game? My first playthrough was with 8 vit and 50 int. It was a fucking cakewalk because I instantly killed every enemy and two-shot most bosses from outside their attack or aggro range. I was fucking bored with how easy almost everything was. A friend hyped how brutally Artorias was going to assfuck me and I only needed to sideroll his first attack before he went down. I am talking about the experiences I watched a large number of players go through and the design flaws they encountered along the way.

Guess what? Sorcerer's catalyst does not use titanite. I never ran into any problems with the upgrade system on my first playthrough because I DID NOT FUCKING USE IT except for that one point where I changed the Sen's Fort lightning spear into a moonlight butterfly horn. Just because you personally have never had your car's ignition destroyed by a tweaker trying to hotwire it does not mean it is not a problem other people encountered.

>Not in a closed system with limited options. Holy shit you're a retard.

Time is a functionally if not actually infinite axis to add in to player planning. Some players can be convinced that staying alive long enough results in a win. You've really never even attempted to design a game, have you?

>It's fair to say that some items are somewhat misleading,

It's fair to say several tell bald-faced lies.

>Resist Curse: Sorcery of the red-robed remedician. Ingward, guardian of the seal in New Londo Sacrifice humanity to undo curse.

>spell neither sacrifices humanity nor does it undo curse

>waaah you took the statement i made to its logical extremes

Now that you are walking BACK from those extremes that you yourself said were okay (since every strategy is valid :^)), let me keep your momentum going: Jumping into the bottom of an enemy has killed you 100% of the time in Mario, and reversing that core gameplay element is incomprehensibly stupid design. Until you successfully convey a reason for a player to assume your game does something different from their prior experience they will rely on their prior experience which includes games similar to yours and there's no way to tell what prior experience a player has when they pick up your game. Again: This is why designing a good game is fucking hard. Dark Souls does a shitton of things different from other games and fails to properly explain all of them. All it would need to fucking do is have the equip burden turn a worse and worse color the more weight you have to properly convey that SOMETHING was changing when they went from 51% to 99%, thereby letting the player extrapolate that something might happen if they reduce weight enough. Most games only apply penalties past 100%, and if you spend the whole game above 51% like knight does, you'll assume Dark Souls works just like every other game with equip burden. You'll even get feedback that reinforces that notion if you try to go over 100% when you start failing to roll entirely. Removing roll at 120%, or, hell, halving the listed percentage so that you fatroll from 100% to 200% without actually changing any gameplay mechanics would convey weight rules much better because it would shatter the rule established by hundreds of other games that you're fine up to 100% load.

>>14520790

>Grinding is not the primary appeal.

The combat is the game's primary appeal. A standard playthrough can be anywhere between 20 and 80 hours. Most of that time will be spent doing what you just described. What a grind, huh? Sounds like it, for someone like you, who would rather put 50 million dicks in your mouth than actually play video games.

>I just fucking told you…It does not convey that you need to go to modify weapon to do [something different]

Cry about it more, faggot. The game separates the two options in the menu so that they're distinct. Once you upgrade your weapon to +5, you will then be able to modify it so that it can be further upgraded. Andre explains this in so many words. He doesn't explicitly tell you that you have to do this in great detail; he implies that there is a substantial difference between normal upgrading - which he explains is quite a standard practice that anyone can do - and modification, which he declares to be 'a finer art'. You're just retarded cause it didn't occur to you to try and modify your weapon after you fully upgraded it. However, I agree that the later games' upgrade paths are more intuitive, given that you can visit one blacksmith and completely upgrade a number of weapons and then infuse within them specialty gems. Even so, this process was not presented to the player any differently; the developers knew that players are smart enough to understand what they must do in order to upgrade their weapons. The system is DaSI is cumbersome and needlessly complex, but its successors are conveyed to the player in the exact same way in subsequent games. How many times must I repeat this shit? I'm going to stick this in a notepad and post it again, in the event that it doesn't seep into your thick skull.

>Never once have I claimed it was deliberate malice, m80. Like virtually every other game in existence, the flaws stem from a lack of resources, be it time, testing, money, whatever.

So, then, why are you bringing it up, you fucking idiot? How does this point genuinely add to the argument that, "the game has poor conveyance"? In some capacity it does, but I have already agreed that the item descriptions are somewhat misleading. Even so, the player can easily come to this conclusion by reading the fucking item description and then observing the ring's effect when equipped. How do you think such observations are understood in the first place? Do you think that the Tiny Being's Ring's effect was a fucking secret until someone on the dev team revealed what it actually does? No! People have the sense to observe a game's systems. In fact, that single statement can be used to shut down everything you've fucking said thus far.

>how many times do I have to fucking repeat it to get it through your thick fucking head that I'm not talking about my own experiences in the game?

How many times to I have to fucking repeat it to get it through your thick fucking head that I'm not making any (serious) remarks your personal experience with the game? I don't know what (you) fucking experienced, hell, I don't even know if you've actually played the fucking game. All of my statements draw upon the assumption that we are speaking about a new player's experience. I pointed this out in another post. Did you miss it?

>muh glass cannon mage playthrough

You got gimped on your first run, if you ask me.

>catalysts don't use titanite…I DID NOT FUCKING USE IT

What's your fucking point? Your whole quip about the car's ignition applies to you in this scenario. You get that, right? You probably had a fuckton of titanite in your inventory. You probably never upgraded your equipment. So what? Earlier you said that you think that new players may have to grind for titanite if they spend it on upgrading their armor instead of their weapons. I, and some other anons, pointed out that 'you don't have to fucking do this because titanite is sold by every single blacksmith and at reasonable prices but you must've missed that, too. How does your prior experience support the argument that titanite is scarce enough that it needs to be sought out by grinding enemies?

>Time is [an infinite axis]

Yeah, you could technically spend your entire life playing any single game, in order to try and fully deconstruct its systems. That is not realistic, that is not feasible. When I said that, "every strategy is viable until proven ineffective" I was trying to imply that no single strategy should be omitted before being properly tested. When I refer to strategy in this regard, I am talking about obvious strategies that the average player would think to incorporate into his playstyle. Why did you infer anything beyond that? You're so uncharitable it hurts.

>>14520790

>Resist Curse

I already addressed this point. You call it a bold faced lie, which implies that there's some kind of deliberate malice behind the misinformation. It's more likely an oversight, or possibly a translation error. Whatever the case, it's not a "lie", it's just not accurate information. There is a difference, because lies require intent. Since we can't really know the story behind this, just let it go. It's a weak point. This goes for practically all other misleading item descriptions

>Until you successfully convey a reason for a player to assume your game does something different from their prior experience they will rely on their prior experience which includes games similar to yours and there's no way to tell what prior experience a player has when they pick up your game

This is a ridiculous fucking point. Yes, everyone has prior experiences, and I've already pointed out that it's safe to make some assumptions. However, you're again being uncharitable if you think that because you've witnessed an item system operate in some specific way in one game, that this system will be applicable to any other fucking game. Even games within the same series make changes to the core. In Demon's Souls, you had an item burden that took into account your inventory items as well as your equipped armor and weapons. Did you bitch about how that system isn't properly conveyed? If you did, then you're a retard, because the game explains it in the exact same way that it does it every single one of these games. Apparently you didn't play DeS, otherwise you'd have used your prior knowledge to conclude that DaS may have an item burden system. Did you not play DeS?

>All it would need to fucking do is have the equip burden turn a worse and worse color the more weight you have to properly convey that SOMETHING was changing when they went from 51% to 99%, thereby letting the player extrapolate that something might happen if they reduce weight enough

You don't need this because you can observe the immediate effects when you try and roll without any armor on. Rolling is a very common behavior in DaS. Everyone will do it, it's a natural tactic that one can use to try and avoid damage. If you're trying on new gear and switching up your playstyle, then your rolling speed should become apparent. Even if you don't, and you want to roll a tank, that is perfectly possible to do as well. Don't act like it isn't possible to become this hulking poise machine that wields a greatsword and a tower shield. While rolling may be a preferable tactic, it is by no means the only viable tactic one can employ. What I am saying is that you can get through the entire game by hiding behind your shield and strafing around enemies. You know, you can still run while in heavy armor. It's not as immediately effective as rolling, but don't act like you have to walk at a snail's pace at all times if you're not lighter than a pillow.

>>14520862

This is an /agdg/ spammer most likely.

>>14521916

Oh my god it's him

>>14522367

I want to headpat that loli.

>>14522367

Discussion =/= shitposting

>>14520234

Pretty much sums up my first run in Dark Souls.

>start as knight

>notice I still get downed in a few hits, start spending sould on resistance and put on any armour with higher defense stat

>do not find Drake sword (because how the fuck would I on a blind run?), STR neglected in favour of resistance, eventually reach a situation where I get downed in a few hits by trashmobs but need a gorillion hits to take them down

>assume this means the game wants me to grind on weaker mobs before letting me proceed

>uninstall the game in disgust

Did a second run years later, this time by reading a wiki about all the meta shit, and of course now I didn't need to grind for a single second

>>14523079

I think you can admit that the way you went about it to begin with was pretty retarded though.

>>14523207

how come?

>>14523242

Clearly you should have had the hindsight to know what you were doing wrong before you figured out what you were doing wrong.

>>14523260

I think it's pretty obvious that if you stack resources into just 1 area the first time you play that you deserve what's coming to you.

>there are "people" on v who actually found the souls games too hard

>>14523288

It was more than just one area, obviously, but I did put a significant amount into Resistance, since in games "I am getting killed way too easily" usually leads to "I should raise my DEF stat". When you throw a significant amount of your points out the window, you will soon start to feel their lack, and thus feel the need to get more via grinding.

>>14523394

>I can say it's pretty obvious you have to kill the healer/buffer first in a fight

In what world do you not? And besides that what enemies in the first areas of the game even do this?

>You're saying he's a dipshit for not properly playing a game blind

No I'm saying he's a dipshit for doing something only a dipshit would do like stack everything you have into 1 stat.

>>14523399

>since in games "I am getting killed way too easily" usually leads to "I should raise my DEF stat"

And at what point did you also question "I'm not doing enough damage to enemies"? It stands to reason that both of these things were occurring and yet you chose one of the other when you were likely already getting used to killing the enemies by now which means you would have a good idea on the amount of damage you were dealing to them. Even if you weren't aware that you would be fighting a boss later on you should have considered that damage would be a necessary aspect and that simply thinking you could tank everything would be retarded after the Asylum Demon.

Simply put there's no logical reasoning for why you would pour every soul you had into DEF and every shard you had into armor instead of using your brain for a few seconds to consider if that's actually a good idea. Especially when you were actually considering that grinding might have been the result of making such a retarded upgrade decision.

>>14523079

>get killed by weak physical enemies

>Gee I should probably level my resistance because even though I can see all the stat changes that come about from levelling a stat and resistance is only affecting my status resistances I'm sure it'll help me tank these mobs better

？？？

>>14523394

>playing blind means you're not allowed to read the information displayed on the screen

>>14523473

>he put a significant amount in, not all

Then he shouldn't have had an issue unless he put it into STR and used DEX weps or something. At this point you're just bad.

>>14520906

>What a grind, huh?

so okay i guess congrats on being as disingenuous as physically possible

> I agree that the later games' upgrade paths are more intuitive

then there's nothing to argue here. the other games did it better and dark souls 1 should have done it the way the other games did it because what they did was unintuitive and weird. Not impossible to figure out, just unintuitive and weird.

>you don't have to fucking do this because titanite is sold by every single blacksmith and at reasonable price

Q: How does a new player get souls to buy things

A: grinding, usually

>which implies that there's some kind of deliberate malice behind the misinformation

nah

>I am talking about obvious strategies that the average player

Define those. I'm serious.

> Did you bitch about how that system isn't properly conveyed?

No, because it worked exactly like it does in virtually every game with any burden mechanics: You can pick up items until you're at 100% load and then anything else you equip either gets dropped on the ground or you start taking movement penalties. That's how basically every load system works, which is why it's counter-intuitive that equip weight doesn't work like that.

>Apparently you didn't play DeS

I actually went back and played it after Dark Souls, but that's neither here nor there nor relevant.

>You don't need this because you can observe the immediate effects when you try and roll without any armor on.

Already addressed this: If you start knight, there's little reason to assume stripping naked provides benefit, because few to no games work like that and it goes against real life logic as hard as possible, so you wouldn't notice that stripping naked provides benefits because you wouldn't actually do that at any point. You know, like what happened to this guy. >>14523535

You'll note that at no point did I ever say it was impossible to win as a fatrolling beefy mclargehuge, just that the knight class failed to inform new players how equip load works due to it starting them off at highest load and giving them no reason to try reducing weight. I also never said that this was a problem across all classes, because almost every class has some brilliantly subtle player training built into the tutorial.

>You got gimped on your first run, if you ask me.

If I asked you that and got that reply I'd call you a fucking retard. If I can kill any enemy in a single hit and can do so well before they can even begin to think about landing an attack my own health is a complete non-factor in a fight. Glass cannon best cannon.

>>14523883

>nah [I didn't imply that 1. the item descriptions make understanding the game's underlying systems that much more difficult to understand and 2. there genuine malice motivated the miscommunication that is present in the final product]

You're a retard, kill yourself.

>[In Demon's Souls] it worked exactly like it does in virtually every game with any burden mechanics: You can pick up items until you're at 100% load and then anything else you equip either gets dropped on the ground or you start taking movement penalties. That's how basically every load system works, which is why it's counter-intuitive that equip weight doesn't work like that.

Look at pic related. Remember when I said

>The number that represents your equip burden will turn red if you go over 70% of your equip load

and then you said

<Not in Dark Souls 1, the game that I am talking about, and it wouldn't even be that value…because 70% is not one of the cut off values

Well, I went back to double check this. Turns out that it works exactly in the way one would expect. If you try and equip an item that will make you heavier than your current weight, the number representing what your new weight will be will turn red. The exact opposite happens if you highlight an item that will make you lighter; the value representing your new weight will turn blue. If this is not enough of a visual indication for you, then what is? You clearly have a value in your character screen that is called "Equip Load". It clearly displays a number that is followed by a forward slash and then another number. If you're not totally fucking retarded, you can discern that the leftmost number represents your current equip weight, and the rightmost number represents your maximum threshold. This, coupled with simple observation of how weight effects your mobility, is more than enough information for the vast majority of players to understand what is happening. Go ahead, try and misinterpret this basic information. It'll be great for a laugh.

>If you start knight, there's little reason to assume stripping naked provides benefit, because few to no games work like that and it goes against real life logic as hard as possible

>it goes against real life logic

You're playing a VIDEO GAME, motherfucker. Everything else, from the demons to the fact that you come "back to life" after death defies real world logic, so shut the fuck up. As for video game "logic", if you had any, you'd know that it is to your benefit to try and explore all of the options that are available to you. If you don't do this, for whatever reason, that is your own fucking fault, and has nothing to do with the game's conveyance of relevant information. You can cry about making assumptions all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you, either deliberately or unknowningly, failed to take the time to understand what the game was trying to tell you.

>The knight class failed to inform new players how equip load works due to it starting them off at highest load and giving them no reason to try reducing weight.

You don't need a reason to reduce your equip weight. It's something that every player will eventually do. Most players with more than half a brain cell will do this from the moment that they are informed that they can do so, if for no other reanson than to affirm the information they've been fed by the game is demonstrably true.

>If I asked you that and got that reply I'd call you a fucking retard. If I can kill any enemy in a single hit and can do so well before they can even begin to think about landing an attack my own health is a complete non-factor in a fight. Glass cannon best cannon.

I don't care about your playstyle. Play how you like.

>>14518490

So any game that isn't rogue-like and is difficult is "Mega man Hard" meaning its not really hard its just cheap tricks and level design?

Every game has memorization and practice involved.

>>14524459

>Why don't you substantiate that argument?

What argument? That performing the same mindless no-danger action over and over is neither interesting or fun? That's something so completely self-evident that only the most disingenuous fuckhead would disagree.

>were trying to argue that the game's user interface was so obtuse that the simple act of discerning between reinforcement and modification was practically impossible for new players to understand.

Are you retarded? First post, right here: >>14514226

>boggled for 5+ minutes

Since when is 5+ minutes to figure out 'impossible to understand?' I've only ever said it's counter-intuitive and poorly designed. Fromsoft clearly agrees with me on that, because they've done it differently for every other game.

>all that shit about soul counts

well thanks for going off on a completely unrelated tangent about the exact specifics of how long a new player will have to grind in order to purchase items? I guess you're admitting they will probably grind for souls and find it dull?

>>14524460

>You're a retard, kill yourself.

Lies do not require malevolent intent, they are simply untrue statements, you fuckhead.

>Turns out that it works exactly in the way one would expect.

Yes, I've already addressed this. Blue means lower, red means higher. Does not indicate tiers or that it affects mobility unless you cross one of the cutoff points. Buying healing items in Demon's Souls makes your item burden red, would it then be logical to assume you need to stay below 50% item burden?

>This, coupled with simple observation of how weight effects your mobility

Hey hey hey hey, totally ignoring that all that shit I said previously about how a knight doesn't get to observe weight effecting mobility unless they choose to strip naked which goes against both real life and game logic.

>video games don't run off real life logic and people playing them won't make assumptions based on real life logic, this is literally not a thing that has ever happened!!

You're a retard, kill yourself. Real life logic dictates that hitting things with your weapon deals damage to it, should the player then just go ahead and assume that attacking just automatically damages whatever they're facing, regardless of if the weapon connected? No, because it goes against real life logic.

>it doesn't change the fact that you, either deliberately or unknowningly, failed to take the time to understand what the game was trying to tell you.

It's fascinating how you insist you're talking about a new player's experience and then phrase every sentence to be specifically about my experience.

>It's something that every player will eventually do

Except for those guys in the thread that talked about how they didn't? They aren't players now?

>>14524577

>performing the same mindless no-danger action over and over is neither interesting or fun?

Shit opinions. Fine, fine. You're entitled to your shit opinion. It's not an argument, though.

>Post No. 14514226

In this post, you talk about the USER INTERFACE. You are not talking about the complexities of the various upgrade paths, so eat shit. Furthermore, you still haven't been able to defend your shitty opinions on the issue of "poor conveyance".

>Lies do not require malevolent intent, they are simply untrue statements, you fuckhead.

Wrong. If someone feeds you misinformation because they are simply not aware that the information is misleading, then they are innocent of being accused of lying. Now, it can be difficult to uncover someone's intent, but intent is a very important aspect of communication, so fuck you.

>Does not indicate tiers or that it affects mobility unless you cross one of the cutoff points. Buying healing items in Demon's Souls makes your item burden red, would it then be logical to assume you need to stay below 50% item burden?

Like I said, it's the exact same system, but with some additional considerations. If you can understand that, then you can understand the system in this game.

>You pick up a weapon, it's lighter than your current weapon

>You examine the weapon in your inventory and realize that your equip load changes

>you realize that all your equipment alters your equip load

You're an absolute fucking retard if you can't understand that.

>Real life logic dictates that hitting things with your weapon deals damage to it, should the player then just go ahead and assume that attacking just automatically damages whatever they're facing, regardless of if the weapon connected? No, because it goes against real life logic.

Are you trying to imply that everything about the world, as you understand it, should be applied to some high fantasy fictional universe? Get the fuck out of here with your nonsense, holy shit.

>It's fascinating how you insist you're talking about a new player's experience and then phrase every sentence to be specifically about my experience.

Does it hurt your feelings?

>Except for those guys in the thread that talked about how they didn't? They aren't players now?

Did you not read when I said that this won't be a problem for the vast majority of players who are smart enough to realize that they can acquire and equip new items?

>>14524577

You sound like that one retard who wrote a steam review about some game not being completely retard proof. He complained that the game was poorly designed because, if you were a knuckle-dragger, you could possibly fail to understand shit in the game.

Cuckchan was a mistake.

>>14524627

>You are not talking about the complexities of the various upgrade paths,

You're right, I'm not, and never once brought that up. You went into one of your signature tangentially-related spergfests about it, though. No real clue why. I've only talked about modify equipment/reinforce weapon and you've even agreed that it was bit weird and the later games did it better. Maybe come back to this thread when you've cooled your autism a bit and can remember who said what?

>Like I said, it's the exact same system, but with some additional considerations.

No, it's not. Item burden and equip load are vastly different. Stop trying to weasel out of this. If there's no reason to assume there's three tiers of item burden that affects movement just from looking at item burden turning red or blue based on whether it's going up or down, then there's no reason to assume the same for equip load.

>>you realize that all your equipment alters your equip load

Yeah, everyone realizes this. That's not the problem. The problem is realizing the effects equip load has, which you can only notice when you cross a burden threshhold, which you have no reason to assume exists since no other games do anything like that. You're red herringing as hard as possible here.

>Are you trying to imply that everything about the world, as you understand it, should be applied to some high fantasy fictional universe?

Ooh, here we go, the absurd ultimatum. That's what people when they don't have any arguments left and try to force their opponent into taking a stupid stance, but only a total retard would actually fall for that. Thank you for admitting that, yes, real life logic applies to video games and especially applies to Dark Souls. I'm glad you agree there's no reason for a player to assume removing their armor increases survivability, and that the knight class poorly explains equip load mechanics.

>this won't be a problem for the vast majority of players who are smart enough

So those folks in this thread that talked about how they equipped heavier stuff and stayed below 100% and blocked everything aren't players smart enough to realize they can equip new items? C'mon m8

>you still haven't been able to defend your shitty opinions on the issue of "poor conveyance".

I'm curious what exactly you want from me here. Do you want me to give examples about how Dark Souls could better explain certain mechanics without tutorials? Because I've already done that in this post. >>14520574

Do you want examples about how to make it quicker to understand the upgrade menu works? Because not only have I done that by using the other souls games as examples, but you've also agreed with me that they've done it better.

>>14514107

>That's such bullshit though. It's hard because if you fuck up the game will punish your ass hard. So you get shit like, normalfags running into a group of enemies and getting chainstunned to death.

No it won't, healing is a non-issue and the game is very fair with letting the player do anything from attacking enemies to escaping. Dark Souls is a game that requires thinking just a little bit in order to achieve your goal, but normalfags can't even do that and the ones who do get into Dark Souls brag about how good they are despite the game not being that hard for anyone not completely retarded and not completely shit at video games after 5-15 minutes maximum.

>>14513986 is absolutely correct.

>>14524705

>No real clue why [you brought up weapon upgrade paths]

Well, we are talking about the game here. It's not exactly unrelated. It was an off hand remark, fuck you.

>you've even agreed that it was bit weird

I agreed that the upgrade paths were unnecessarily tedious, not that the blacksmith's menu, or any of the menus in the game, are counter-intuitive

>Maybe come back to this thread when you've cooled your autism a bit and can remember who said what?

Bitch, if anything, you're the one glossing over previous points that were made in older posts. You just hand waived my entire analysis of the amount of souls that it takes to acquire enough shards to max out your base weapon to +5. The whole point of that was to emphasize the point that it isn't all that hard to acquire souls, therefore you won't have to really grind at all if you're careful enough to hold them from the moment you get to Firelink until you reach Andre, but even if you do lose them, getting enough to strengthen your weapon doesn't require much time at all. Again, if you think the combat is repetitive and tedious, then fuck off. This game isn't for you, cause you're going to be fighting hordes of enemies for the duration of your playthrough.

>Yeah, everyone realizes this. That's not the problem. The problem is realizing the effects equip load has

Holy fucking shit, it's like you don't even read. I've already addressed this point multiple times already. You're adamant in insisting that players are too stupid to observe a simple equipment screen and make very basic observations about said equipment in relation to your character's behavior. Whatever you say, autismo.

>Ooh, here we go, the absurd ultimatum

Alright, you dumb motherfucker, let's retread the previous exchange to see how we got here. I said

>You're playing a VIDEO GAME, motherfucker. Everything else, from the demons to the fact that you come "back to life" after death defies real world logic, so shut the fuck up

Do I really need to explain how video games are not subject to the laws of our known reality? Mario can jump three times his own height. By all accounts, Mario is supposed to be a human being. That is an absurd action that defies the laws of physics. Not even professional athletes can jump so high. The whole fucking point, you disingenuous cunt, is that video games do not have to follow "real world logic". If you are surprised when a game subverts your expectations about how the real world should operate, then you're either a retard or you don't play many video games. So, what did you say in response?

<Real life logic dictates that hitting things with your weapon deals damage to it, should the player then just go ahead and assume that attacking just automatically damages whatever they're facing, regardless of if the weapon connected? No, because it goes against real life logic.

Yeah, no shit, you dumb fuck. The game does not need to explain that this is a phenomenon that can also happen in reality, because it doesn't necessarily function as it would in reality. Your character will swing his weapon in a very precise way. Real world weapons experts don't do that, they use their momentum and dexterity to allow the weapon to flow along with them. Moreover, it should be obvious that the fact that you're playing a VIDEO GAME contextualizes these actions. Meaning, although some things might try to represent some degree of "realism", by and large, this will not be the case in every representation of action and reaction. So, how the fuck am I supposed to respond to such incredulity?

>So those folks in this thread that talked about how they equipped heavier stuff and stayed below 100% and blocked everything aren't players smart enough to realize they can equip new items?

You said it, not me. It's the truth, though. If you're so fucking retarded that you couldn't figure out how to understand the equipment mechanics, then I wonder how you can do anything else in life. Do you need in depth instructions on how to change a light bulb, too?

>>14524705

>I'm curious what exactly you want from me here. Do you want me to give examples about how Dark Souls could better explain certain mechanics without tutorials? Because I've already done that in this post.

I've read your contribution to solving this supposed problem. I'll summarize what you said:

>pointed out that the upgrade paths in these games are different, i.e. you don't need additional embers to upgrade your weapon to +15

>equip every starting character with light enough equipment such that they all start out with a light roll

Bravo, friend. These changes don't necessarily do anything different to convey that an equip burden system is in place. Going by your logic, what if someone assumes that light rolling isn't a worthwhile tactic? What if they assume that shields are meant to absorb all damage, because their starting shield absorbs all damage, and they encounter an enemy that uses magical damage to attack them for chip damage through their shield? If a player that doesn't start out with a shield can learn that maneuverability is efficient at avoiding damage, and that maneuverability is effected by equipment weight - which is something that a light rolling and shieldless character will eventually understand, given your system - then why can't a heavy armor and heavy shielded character make similar conclusions about his gear? The conclusions may be different, but the act of reaching will not be, because it relies on observation and system feedback.

1. Don't make dumb assumptions

2. Make an effort to learn about the game's systems

3. Try every ability, weapon, piece of armor - and tactic - that is available to you

4. Learn, instead of crying about 'muh obtuse and complicated systems'

>>14521916

That was the funniest and most autistic thing I've ever seen related to a video game.

>imagine being this autistic over a video game

>imagine being this unequivocally wrong in your autism over a video game in all categories

>imagine your sides being in my state right now

>>14523883

>imagine being this retarded and incapable of figuring out that what he was doing was wrong and doubling down this hard on it

You're more retarded than the Anon bitching about grinding in RPGs.

>>14524851

You know that's not what was said.

>>14524855

>You're more retarded than the Anon bitching about grinding in RPGs.

pretty sure they're the same guy

>>14524871

>pretty sure they're the same guy

Would any one man have that much autism?

Darks souls was neither hard nor good.Try and prove me

wrong.

>>>/trs/

>>14526442

There is an autist who made a seven minute long video showing off how fucking retarded he is when it comes to how the game explained equipping armor and weapons. >>14521916

>>14526495

What the hell even is /trs/?

>>14526702

Wait what? Fill me in on this story I got here late. What the fuck is going on ITT?

>>14526709

Some shitposter made a "Is dark souls da megamin of Dork Shores?" using a demon's souls cover as his pic, then retards came out of nowhere saying Souls was never good. THEN some autist is ITT trying to justify his retardation for grinding in a souls game and how the game "doesn't properly explain equip load". Then some anon posted the infamous autismo who made a video showing off how the game supposedly doesn't explain equipping items well enough.

>>14526729

Right thanks. Polite sage since off-topic.

>>14526493

>actual discussion about a game is grounds for being a faggot

Why the fuck do you even come here faggot?

>>14527696

>autistic copy pasta

>actual discussion

fuck you retard.

>lololol DaS is not hard, what are you a babby newfag?

>thread title and fifty posts all around to boast that it takes a bad dude to beat the game

Why are underage gamers such tryhards?

>>14527721

>copy pasta

>not being around for these types of arguments

You can fuck off or lurk more. Your choice.

>>14528170

To be fair valuing actually hard games is a good thing I just wish people would focus on those and not pseudo-hard games like Dark Souls.

>>14528189

A cuckjak.

>>14528170

>>>/leave/

>>14528273

Don't older WRPGs do it too?

>>14526709

>What the hell even is /trs/?

A new meme board ignore it.

>>14531155

>Don't older WRPGs do it too?

A few of them I think. Old WRPGs were really tabletop games in their mechanics.

>>14534604

>>14531155

>Older WRPG feature

Makes sense since JRPGs came from classic WRPGs.

>>14532678

>new

>>14536308

Pretty much but they went off in their own direction eventually.

>>14541024

She looks like her vagina smells.

>>14541032

You can only do so much within the limitations of the game, got any from your files?

>>14541046

Hmm, Demon Souls?

>>14541032

You mean she looks female?

Are there other games where autists shit up lore as much as vaati?

>>14542480

I was going to say Overwatch but in that one people speculate lore until the devs state the lore is gay/autist/snowflake so is not the same.

>>14542480

Silent hill is pretty close.

>>14520577

>The entire reason Castlevania 2 is so infamous is because it completely and utterly failed to establish consistent rules. The player has no reason to expect crouching at a specific location while holding certain equipment summons a tornado that teleports them somewhere else.

Except the fact that previously you had to crouch with a different crystal at a different specific location to unveil another path forward. It's mostly the localization that fucks the player in Simon's Quest, not the gameplay itself.

I will be pretty happy when Dark Souls is never discussed again.

>>14543001

They're referencing post numbers in this very thread you absolute retard.

>>14542977

This is the thing anon, people tend to discuss whatever they are playing at the moment, which means at least I will be making a thread or two until I go to the next game eventually, such is the nature of these things.

>>14542977

Me too.

>>14532678

>>>/cuckchan/

>>14548716

>touhou souls when

Soon hopefully.

>>14554741

a.k.a. never, unless you mean just a simple reskin

>>14554795

It'll happen eventually.

>Dark Souls is hard AT FIRST, but becomes easy as soon as you know any given level's layout.

All games are dumbass.

>>14559338

>All games are, dumbass.

That makes me dumbass too.

What is with all these shitty 1 and done threads where OP doesn't even bother to try at least trigger people anymore? /v/ feels more like the unanswered yahoo questions section now.

Have I really been gone that long?

>>14559459

Have you been gone since 2012? It's pretty bad but it's been worse. Cumulatively though it's kinda bad.

>>14559459

Cuckchan's mobile app added 8chan support.

>>14559459

Dark Souls has always attracted the 'hardcore' but low-effort community.

>>14562104

Wait people use a fucking app to use 8ch on mobile? Is that what's meant by a phoneposter?

I sometimes leech off our work's wifi and use my phones web browser and post that way but Jesus

>>14569140

I do too but I have to admit that posting on Firefox from my cellphone is really fucking terrible.

The autocorrect or whatever messes with the website's textbox and makes it so that entire words are deleted/spaces are deleted when you try to delete a single character to fix a word.

It's also not super fast, but I don't have a blazing fast cell phone either. So an app would help in that regard.

>>14569140

Yes their cuckery knows no bounds.

>>14542480

If I told you Monster Hunter after Monster Hunter 4 came out, would you believe it?

>>14573216

Big Black Cock?

>>14574697

You're so funny, nobody has ever made that joke before. So funny. To you have any tired memes for us too? Maybe something about elf rape?

>>14574723

>wanting to rape elfs

>a meme

>>14513971

Dark Souls was never good.

>>14588803

This.

>>14588803

Your shit taste was never good

>>14514003

>I returned it like a turd

Are you calling yourself a turd, or are you saying you shove your own shit back up your asshole when you're done on the toilet?

>>14594197

He's right though.

>>14599561

Nice argument

bump

>>14612264

why

>Put points in vit and end early and often

Wow game is not hard and you can survive 3-4+ big hits without dying. Really makes you think.

Also the layout of a level is not needed unless there is a surprise and you are being careless.

>>14612314

Hi reddit

game is fucking terrible lol double A game that was supposed to be forgotten on the shelves of brick and mortar stores. The devs didn't even expect Demon's to do well and rushed it while cutting out the 6th world. This also applies to every other game in the series.

>game treats the players good and gives them advice

<ough, casual shit

>game tries to be challenging and surprising

<ough, muh bad game design

Faggots whining about the same shit in every soulsborne thread.

A thread mentioning any game from the series in the OP is like a fucking buzzword charm for reddit/cuckchan retards like these.

It may be a massive ad hominem but shoot me in the head if it is not true.

Basically, this thread:

>ough why do I have to suffer if I act retarded, unfocused and don't pay atrention while playing?

>I equip heavier armors for more big stats (e.g. weight) and get slowed down? Oh that's a bad game design

>enemies hiding behind corners and I always sprint into the unknown, right into the ambushes everytime and die (because I suck at combat anyway, especially if the mobs gain the upper hand with the first ambush hit) while I can walk slowly and check my way for traps/ambushes? Oh man that's sure a poorly done game

This is SJW-tier bitching bullshittery that is slowly ruining /v/, so shaming fags in these threads is the only proper way to save the board from cancer.

>>14617968

>This is SJW-tier bitching bullshittery that is slowly ruining /v/, so shaming fags in these threads is the only proper way to save the board from cancer.

/v/ has always buried its opinions in a wave of exaggeration and bitterness newfag. It can't 'ruin' /v/ when it has always been like this.

I'm proud of this thread.

>>14622009

Shotguns don't fit in asses.

>>14624494

Go ask /k/.

>>14624494

Someone hasn't seen the screencap of someone putting remshit in his ass.

>>14622009

Get out.

>>14629993

>wanting women that are taller than you

t. cuck

>>14630252

Not a problem if you aren't a manlet.

>>14631388

Giantess assumes taller than average male height cuck.

>>14633202

>cuck

I don't think you know what that word means.

>>14624494

Try harder.

>>14638767

I'm not the one who enjoys women dominating them.

>>14642417

>implying you can't dominate a woman taller than you

>>14594197

Prove me wrong kiddo.

>>14642417

>implying

But Megaman isn't hard?

There's a big difference between "hard" and "not easy".

Dark Souls sucks tbh.

>>14653956

Fuck off underage.

>>14642452

>implying you can't dominate a woman taller than you

>Implying height is all that defines it

>>14642759

Get an argument fist.

>>14646242

>no argument

>>14653956

Put some effort in I mean I agree but please do more than that.

>>14663553

You've been doing nothing but passively aggresuvly shitting on the games difficulty this entire thread with no argument. You're no better fag.

Bump for the month old thread.

>>14514288

>that webm

Top lel.

>>14663807

I explained what is and isn't acceptably difficulty way back near the start faggot. Nobody provided an argument other than 'nu uh'.

It's just a good game all around. I'm tired of the "appeal" being people thinking it's some kind of challenge benchmark. I feel like they are diminishing what the games are all about.

So far only Bloodborne has been treated right by the community and viewed as something other than le challenge meme.

>>14675511

>How is he getting his ass kicked so hard

Because it makes him popular.

>>14514288

is that DSCuck?

>>14675467

>I explained what is and isn't acceptably difficulty way back near the start faggot

No you didn't. You agreed to some dipshit who was btfo a long time ago. Make a post going into it that's longer than 4 sentences instead.

>>14678520

No but a similar brand of autism.

>>14514157

Are you joking me.

>>14542453

t. Roastie

>>14514288

Is this the no Apaches in Terraria guy?