/v/ - Video Games

>>14501232

There's also Shadow Warrior 2, but I can't really tell you how bad/good it is since I haven't actually played it.

I'm sure there's also a DOOM mod that covers this.

And then there's also a bunch of roguelite FPS which have some random loot elements although it's probably not gonna scratch the same itch.

>>14501264

DoomRPG+RLA used to be the top tier Doom mod for this, but it got shat on by the guy who maintains ZDoom and now you have to get an old version to play it.

Hellgate: London was good? At least had potential. From what I have seen 2038 looks decent at least.

>how come all of these first person Diablo clones all end up shit?

I'm thinking mostly of Memelands2, it apes the bad part of the Diablo without aping the part of the formula that worked. Inflate monster's HP so they become boring bullet sponges. Aversion to anyone having fun and getting blindsided by "muh balance at the cost of everything else". The devs thinks grinding is a must have feature in anything Diablo related.

>>14501375

do you know which version ZDoom or GZDoom?

>>14501232

Loot n shoot games kinda suck though, other than stats there isn't any variety in gameplay to be had, look at how dead Destiny 2 is, and if you check quick, all boss fights from Memelands to Destiny to The Division are goddamn bullet sponges.

>>14501475

Destiny 2 is dead for a LOT of reasons

>First person Diablo clones

I'm working on making one but finishing off my engine first.

>>14501475

That's just shit game design.

>The Division

>First Person

>>14501488

All games are first person because you watch them through your own eyes.

>>14501497

How about you fuck off.

>>14501232

Escape From Tarkov? It's more about tacticool antics and survival. But the whole game is just lootin and shootin

>>14501484

How can you possibly avoid the bullet sponge problem?

Stalker is the best one tbh.

>>14501538

By giving bosses more attack patterns that are hard to shoot at and require some thought instead of giving you a thing that runs a straight line to you nonstop while firing a minigun endlessly until it dies. Hell maybe weakpoints that actually trigger a reaction from the boss instead of just "shoot the face for bigger number", maybe shooting something holding their ammo so they have to retreat and get their shit together leaving them exposed. Anything is better than just "keep emptying your magazines on this guy for 5 more minutes while he does the exact same thing"

>>14501488

I was gonna say 2 examples but then remembered "oh wait, the division is also doing that" and then forgetting that i said first person Diablo clones. not sure what else to call them though, Diablo shooters? I don't wanna call them first person RPG's because that would group them together with vampire the masquerade: bloodlines and dark messiah of might and magic and that is just wrong.

>>14501552

It had shit weapon ballistics and the exosuits were not suppressing the firearms' recoil like they should have been. But I still do agree with you.

>>14501568

From what I've seen, I'm pretty sure that's Destiny. It's the same patterns over and over with increased HP and spawns. They did about as great a job as anyone could do.

I don't think it is possible to make compelling procedural content. After the handcrafted content is learned, these games are purely the player gambling their time for loot, driven by some emotional disorder. There is no opponent other than the probability of a drop and the pain of real life, I would hardly consider it a game.

>>14501264

>Shadow Warrior 2

The first one is better. The looter-shooter elements actually ruined it, along with the "open" levels being almost complete dogshit (there are some nice areas but most of the verticality is bullshit). Also in the second game you've got some diversity hire chick in your head instead of a wise-ass demon

>>14501648

*most of the verticality is useless

is what I meant to say

>>14501648

>the "open" levels being almost complete dogshit

They don't even feel open-world at all, you were just teleported into a zone to complete one objective at a time. If you could do a lot of quests just in a single zone, it could've worked, but most of the time, it was corridors hidden in an "open world".

>Also in the second game you've got some diversity hire chick in your head instead of a wise-ass demon

There was also that quest with the shrunk Nobitsura Kage, the end of that quest was just insulting when you know Shadow Warrior 1 ended.

>>14501682

>know how* Shadow Warrior 1 ended

>fps lootrpg

>see that powerup

>instead of just getting it you have to pick it up 20 times but not before killing x number of things to level up first

whee

I played borderlands on my 360 a few months after it came out and I loved it and felt that despite its kinks a sequel could be the next Diablo 2 for me. The ending of the first game led me to believe the sequel would take place on several different planets with unique biomes and learning more about the eridians and the vault monster. If they tightened up the shooting and kept the story on track borderlands 2 would probably still be on my hard drive. I will say that I feel BL2 is an objectively superior game, but only in comparison to the first one. But they kept the game on Pandora, filled it with memes, and made the shooting feel worse somehow. They didn't even fucking give the characters multiple abilities. The number 1 complaint people had about the first game.

A really big disappointment.

What about Hellgate: London, the original FPS diablo clone. it sucked

>>14501232

I've played all of these so here are my thoughts.

Blands 1 was fun to play with friends for a bit, although once we stopped playing together I didn't pick it up again. But it had some character to it and wasn't all that bad. Blands 2 I pirated and played for an hour, and after the awful forced humor (lmao butt stallions rofl xdxdxd) I had to chuck it. Even for free that game is atrocious.

I picked up The Division when it first came out, but everything was so goddamn bullet spongy, and there wasn't a lot of cool things you could do. It was mostly just shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot in some generally bland environments. The PVP Dark Zone shit was interesting in concept but failed in execution (players would just group up and gang up on entrances and murder anyone who stepped in). I've heard it's made some improvements since launch but I never fired it up again to check and see.

And then there's Destiny, which I played the most out of. I got it at launch and got hooked, even when there wasn't much content and the only path to maxing your character was to get lucky at the raid. It did improve over time, and by the last update it became a pretty good package overall. If you can find it on sale, it's not a bad deal to pick up, even though the PVP got a bit fucked due to the last couple of patches.

You'll even find a decent amount of people to play with because Destiny 2 shat the bed so hard. I don't know how they managed to fuck it up so badly, but they sure did. I could forgive launching with a subpar amount of content, but they made fundamental changes to the gameplay that pretty much ruined everyone's experience. Not only did the game not feel right, but there was no real reward system to keep you going, no loot chase to make you say "okay, one more round." They've been patching in various overhauls, but I don't think that the game will recover unless they address the core issues with the gameplay (namely the weapon and ability systems).

To answer your question, I have absolutely no idea why nobody can seem to get it right. It's a subgenre I want to see succeed but everything always gets fucked in the end somehow.

>>14501417

>>14502177

Are there any mods than can make it good? I still have the discs somewhere.

I fucking hate diablo clone lootshits.

Worst part of Nioh was trying to get an item with actually useful stats because of its lootshit system. At least with monster hunter gear is actually static and all you need to do is hunt the monsters to get the items you want to make it but then they introduced talismans.

>>14502320

What do you consider to be good FPS level design?

>>14502716

> youhavetogoback.midi

The big problem of "shoot n loot" is the same thing that plagues a most action RPG games - it tries to mix two very different levels of abstraction together. On the one hand, you have the rather low-abstraction shooter mechanics where the player pretty much directly controls the character actions. On the other hand, you're trying to bolt on a set of mechanics of higher abstraction levels - numeric skills and stats, wildly scaling damage and hit points, etc. Those work in games where you don't have less direct control of your character, where you only point where to move and what to target.

>>14502716

but warframe is also shit.

>>14502395

>you can at least make an effort to create meaningful abilities, except everything always boils down to "tweak variable that already existed."

That's not an irreconcilable design flaw, that's just lack of ambition, lack of budget, or lack of imagination.

>>14501232

Talking about matter of the question. You are just asking too much. One can do only so much to expand action game single player/coop (that is not really coop) gameplay . In the essence its purposeless run in the hamster's wheel. You played one loot game you played them all, you would never get same high with next if you played one.

>>14501232

>The Division

Is finally imo fixed. Netcode is still shit and there's not enough players. The Division 2 is announced to be showing up at E3. Let just hope Massive learned their lesson and the Division 2 doesn't just set them back to square one.

>>14501581

If you are not married to the fps part i recommend you 7.62 high calibre/hard life the later one is an updated version of the former (more weapons, more vehicles, more mercenaries, more areas, etc) but i haven't played much of it yet so give both a try as they have very different feel, specially early game.

>>14501232

>first borderlands was pretty good

It really wasn't. While the randomly generated guns sounded good on paper in reality it was just OVER A MILLION GUNS that were mostely very similar to each other with only minor differences or bigger numbers. Not to mention the bullet sponge enemies in the end game that basically required some form of bullet regen to kill.

>>14502740

Borderlands would probably be pretty fun if, instead of purely random weapons you had random weapon parts. You'd never get exactly what you wanted, but you could have a base weapon of pistol/sniper/rocket that leveled up with you so you don't get cucked out of the weapons your good with, but have RNG attachments that modify the function of the base gun. Magazines, compensators, scopes and stocks would be attachments that drop to improve your gun, so you never get stuck with being unable to use a sniper rifle on your sniper rifle character for 5 hours because a decent one hasn't dropped in forever.

>>14503094

also i was expecting they will make the leveling more meaningfull instead of adding 1-10% to a statistic or add more abilites but fuck no

you can now have "badass leves" so instead of adding 1-10% you can add 0.1-1%

wooo

>>14502904

It cuts grind time too much, players would obtain their "perfect gun" nearly instantly what undermines idea of loot shooters itself.

>>14502857

Idea was also good ingame. It meant that every chest could contain your dream gun your actually want. Going throw piles of trash to find a diamond, aligns with a aesthetics of thrash planet of Pandora. Also it means that top guns are born natural way, not even developers could say what guns would be best without extensive playtest. Opposite to forced "goodness" and predefined grind of specific mandatory gun in a single place.

>>14502823

Do people unironically think de_dust was good? Its far too bottlenecked.

>>14503120

I want to say maybe adding some form of gun "maintenance" gameplay mechanic would be a way to fix that, where you feel other weapons into your current one (an act that would enhance the weapon while also slightly changing its appearance based on weapon fed), but that sounds too much like mobile/gacha shit. Failing to feel it leads to damage reduction and other negatives.

>>14502904

Shadow Warrior 2 did exactly that and it wasn't any fun at all because you'd end up with a crapton of junk loot you'd have to filter through and getting a bunch of trinkets and parts isn't as satisfying as finding an entirely new weapon

>>14502411

It's just a poorly made game overall, it would need to be remade from scratch.

>>14503120

Honestly, it would've been better if they just let you make your own guns instead of relying on random chance

>>14501375

Can you explain what exactly happened? I only know Kyle discontinued it, but I don't know anything about the events surrounding it.

>>14503243

Back before the game's release, I heard rumor that some form of guncrafting was originally part of the game and it was cut due to some lack of power on the current gen consoles at the time.

>>14502679

Haven't played it, can you elaborate? I want to know more about good level design.

>>14503508

Good question, sounds like an excuse.

>>14503508

>>14503514

With how guns are actually structured in game, they certainly had the back bones for such a system at least.

>>14503505

its part AI and part level design that makes FEAR great, the levels are designed in such a way that the AI can attack you from many different angles whenever it can. Likewise the AI is somewhat scripted to try and flank the player as much as possible.

One particular example I can think of is near the start of the game you're shooting some enemies a bit above you, nothing to hard but then they blow up a door to your left and start attacking from there, suddenly you have to consider not only the enemies in front of you but also to your side.

All of this however can also be used against the enemy by simply flanking them or try and kill them all before they have a chance to scatter and flank you. I highly recommend playing FEAR yourself not just because it has good level design but because its just a really fun shooter that looks good despite being 13 years old.

Vid related explains the game really well.

somebody post moxxi's tits for crying out loud.

>>14501232

>The Division: Apparently it went through dev hell and no one gave a fuck

Development hell?! What are you talking about? The game has been out for 3 years now, there's even a sequel coming out next year.

>>14501475

>all boss fights from Memelands to Destiny to The Division are goddamn bullet sponges

Isn't that the price to pay for a "looter/shooter"? I mean I wish The Division had the Ghost Recon gameplay (tacticool, one shot to the head = dead) but I don't know how the loot system could work with that gameplay.

>>14503734

>Development hell?! What are you talking about? The game has been out for 3 years now, there's even a sequel coming out next year.

What do either of these statements have to do with the game having gone through development hell? A game doesn't have to be unreleased to go through development hell.

>>14503641

At least the game that is marketed as a sequel to F.E.A.R. had a lewd, rapey Alma.

>>14502857

> >first borderlands was pretty good

> It really wasn't. While the randomly generated guns sounded good on paper in reality it was just OVER A MILLION GUNS that were mostely very similar to each other with only minor differences or bigger numbers. Not to mention the bullet sponge enemies in the end game that basically required some form of bullet regen to kill.

I remember being so disappointed at this. I still remember the dev waaaaay back in the world debut article in Game Informer talking about machine guns that fire micromissiles instead of bullets and guns that made enemies explode if you aimed at them for a certain amount of time and all kinds of other wacky and unbalanced shit that was supposedly "random" and what we got was guns that were boring as shit with a few unique pieces thrown in to make it seem like that wasn't the case.

Fucking disgusting

>>14503817

I can tell you from firsthand experience that a 30 second cutscene of a corpse humping your character is not worth going through that oversaturated garbage of a game

>>14503951

Don't remember that ever being mentioned. She supposed to be quite old, being the mother of Skeeter and that fat bitch from 2, but that's the only weird thing I know about her.

>>14504418

>expansions

>s

anon, there was only one expansion made for original F.E.A.R.

>>14502589

Is that the fat fuck responsible of killing John Candy?

>>14505292

They don't, mostly.

Is there a way to mod Borderlands 2 to have less shit loot scaling/odds, and to have obtaining legendaries/uniques work how it diid iin the first game?

Because what I played of BL2 seemed much improved over 1, writing asde, but the loot system and how getting legendaries was basically exclusive to farming bosses, and you couldn't farm bosses to get max level uniques even after doing the sidequests completely turned me off the game so I never finished it.

>>14503734

>The game has been out for 3 years now

Two years anon.

>>14503734

Loot chests in random places within levels. You could design it in such a way that the direction enemies spawn in from directs you towards the chests. Then rather than having a bullet sponge boss at the end of the level you could have interestingly designed encounters with multiple large groups of enemies which require more tactical thinking than "look at guy hold left click until hp reaches zero"

>shoot n loot

You'd know all about that wouldn't you, Jamal?

>>14504563

That's Ignatius J. Riley.

>>14505409

But then people would complain, saying that it's a "corridor game like Fallout New Vegas" and not open world.

And yes, I know that F:NV is open world, but I am sure you have heard the some of the complaints.

>>14506428

> "corridor game like Fallout New Vegas"

People say this?

>>14501232

None of them are good. Hellgate: London's first person view was only for a few classes and even then, the game was a buggy, boring mess.

>Borderlands

Fucking awful. Daily reminder that this is where the A:CM money went to.

>>14506565

>Daily reminder that this is where the A:CM money went to.

I think it went to make Bordermeme 2.

>>14506565

>>14506621

It was BL2 that got the A:CM money.

>>14501232

Even though she's supposed to be hot and milfy Moxxi always seems so haggard to me.

>>14506794

That's because she is.

>>14504418

>F.E.A.R

>Sequels

What sequels?

All we got was a shitty console spinoff.

bump

>>14501601

Nigger, what the fuck? Stalker probably has the best ballistics of any FPS ever.

Every single time a FPS that isn't stalker introduces bullet physics it's some garbage with more speed and drop than a crossbow, and I say that from experience.

>>14511021

With less speed and more drop*

>>14501648

>The first one is better

It's funny because they took all the things I didn't like in the first one and made a game out of it.

A shame because it could've been great.

>>14511062

>A shame because it could've been great.

I feel you man. So many games I have played where it could have been something great and yet it isn't for one reason or another.

Destiny 2 is an extemely anti-white game. They used the old SJW bait and switch ploy of putting a white man on the cover,

Heres the thing there are literally no white men in the game. Once you see it its appalling especially considering the literal hamburger helper v2 writer that raped the games script with reddit tier marvel writing.

>how come all of these first person Diablo clones all end up shit?

The focus on loot and grinding is what ruined Diablo.

>>14514254

Yeah. The last Iron lord is a nigger, Ikora and Zavala are both niggers, the lady who leads the "resistance"(?) in 2 is a nigger… Fucking hell, Destiny is just bad.

>>14516286

so what do you think made it good?

>>14518177

The loot and grinding.

bump.

>>14501375

tell me more about doomrpg/RLA, i hear it get mentioned in a lot of doom threads but don't know a goddamn thing about it

>>14518177

Character builds, item modifiers, skills, atmosphere. Whenever I play Diablo, it's hardcore and I stop playing the character once I finish the game.

>>14525026

speaking of the pre-sequel, it's funny how you can actually precisely pinpoint which lines were written by strayans and which were written by Anthony Burch

as soon as the characters start yelling nonsensical XD GEEKY NERDY RANDUMB TBBT type bullshit is when Anthony's soyage kicks in

Hellgate London as a gunslinger is the best one and faggot op did not even list it.

>>14501648

>open" levels being almost complete dogshit

>because most of the verticality is useless

you're quite retarded tbh

>chick in your head instead of a wise-ass demon

*annoying-ass demon you mean

how is that a bad thing anyway

>>14501682

>it was corridors hidden in an "open world"

Nothing was hidden in anything. It's just a big levels. Only one who deceived you is yourself. Why would you want an open world in a shooter anyway. Those miles of hiking in far cry wont make you any healthier.

why there's so many burch fans anyway

>>14502589

I think its dead island:something. I needed to lvl up to use a broom as a weapon. Dropped that shit immediately.

Mothergunship looks promising. An actual attempt to make a randomized Diablo style shooter.

You can create your own gun using the same style of editor from the Gumming Ship in Kingdom Hearts.

- Hellgate London has a private server for it.

- Vanilla WoW private servers

- Diablo 3 (on console)

- The Division

I actually play(ed) The Division. It is very gear based with 3 sets being the end-all-be-all and a handful of guns being top tier. Some you can craft yourself. The problem is getting the drops is such a pain in the ass. You'll be grinding the same 3 missions (Lexington, Clear Sky, Hudson) during global events(happened every weekend this month – 3 year anniversary), the only time your chance of getting what you want is increased enough to clock the hours in. The PvP is mediocre but going rogue in the dark zone and killing faggots to take their shit is satisfying. The environment is a really good recreation of Manhattan with some buildings you can actually enter, but it is over-all a "look but don't touch" approach to the design. The aesthetic is good (only reason I played), but it leaves a lot to be desired. The game was shit/buggy when it was released but it underwent a R6Siege/BF4 recovery with updates. Bulletsponge mobs that are humans, but it used to be worse.