b8386c No.14498114
Sonic Mania Plus announced.
http://archive.is/4Yb12
527555 No.14498121
That "new character" on the right looks so familiar, was he in anything else?
5c070d No.14498148
>>14498121
Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic Heroes(Team Chaos), and SegaSonic the Hedgehog.
Mighty is Back!!!
fd122a No.14498155
793ec9 No.14498158
>>14498148
I don't want niggers in my games
7009cb No.14498161
>>14498114
Doesn't seem like much.
Would prefer new levels.
abd741 No.14498173
Great, two reskins. Why not new levels or a level editor for fucks sake.
3563e4 No.14498177
Did anyone even cares about Ray?
abd741 No.14498181
Oh also, it's gonna be a free update. That's good I guess.
d39c58 No.14498187
I like how there's no PC version of this, probably a good sign that the game sold like complete SHIT on there because of that Denuvo shitstorm.
7009cb No.14498188
>>14498181
Where does it say it'll be free? It just says owners of the original will be able to get it via a DLC update.
07dcb8 No.14498189
So you gonna be allowed to do the Figure 8 Spin outside of using cheat codes?
544355 No.14498193
>>14498114
>2 New Characters
How many autists are going to be screeching about SEGA stealing their OC?
ad430f No.14498196
>>14498114
Is that super tails?
d39c58 No.14498204
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14498193
>New
They're not, you just have to be REALLY into sonic to know who they are.
abd741 No.14498213
>>14498188
They said it on a panel. People that own the game will get it is an update. They just re branded this shit to sell it physically again.
ad430f No.14498224
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14498114
So….. speaking of future shit storms. how soon until Sega will start damage controlling that they licensed out sonic to IDW comic aka lets hire an artist who openly spams fuck white people and kill the police on his twitter feed? Also considering IDW made trans-transformers canon,turned my little pony Black lives matters propaganda and published a anti-American G.I. Joe comic. How fucked will IDW sonic the hedgehog be?
c120a7 No.14498225
Shit, the "new" characters look objectively awful, they could have put Amy and Metal Sonic instead.
7009cb No.14498233
>>14498213
Oh cool. New free shit then
e22ba6 No.14498236
>>14498225
They're not new characters at all you dumb fuck
fd7dd1 No.14498246
>>14498224
The team working on IDW Sanic is the same that did Archie Sanic though. That said considering the current state of IDW I fully expect editorial overreach to fuck with the comic eventually.
f9d5f6 No.14498250
>>14498225
Look how new you are nigga.
TO LIFE
c120a7 No.14498255
>>14498236
>>14498250
That's why a put a pair of " on new you blind inbred.
3563e4 No.14498257
So what's the encore mode like? Didn't watch the panel.
abd741 No.14498270
>>14498255
>inbred
Hey kraut.
ad430f No.14498271
>>14498246
>The team working on IDW Sanic is the same that did Archie Sanic though.
That’s old news. IDW writers and artists will take over the sonic. That where the anti-white racist guy comes in. Mind you the literal communists That been fired from G.I joe confirmed on twitter IDW is on Hasbro shit list. For both PR nightmare and no Hasbro book is selling except for my little pony.
e151d9 No.14498280
>>14498250
"To life" is a Jewish phrase.
daf276 No.14498289
>>14498187
PC is just not getting the physical release, which makes sense, because the original PC release didn't, either. The digital version is still getting the update.
>>14498225
>mighty
>ray
>awful
>wants amy
Stop being such a CD fag. Metal would be cool, but he's better as an antagonist than a playable character. His boss fight just needs to be better.
>>14498271
SEGA already brought out the whip for Archie, once they realized how bad it was there. Do you really think they're going to suddenly become more lax with IDW?
f9d5f6 No.14498291
>>14498280
Pure coincidence
Goy
ad430f No.14498310
>>14498289
>Do you really think they're going to suddenly become more lax with IDW?
Hasbro already threaten IDW. IDW has no control over writers and artists on twitter. In 5 years Hasbro probably moved their license to dark horse or big two. Are You still doubting the stupidity of the American comic book industry at this point? We are Marvel comics staff living admitting they are living off Disney welfare.
654fe8 No.14498360
I'm pretty alarmed at all the people that don't recognize mighty and ray
a6d774 No.14498373
>>14498370
He sold out, which is worse.
ad5b49 No.14498681
But I wanted to play as Cream
ad430f No.14498705
>>14498681
No. You wanted to cream in cream.
ad28b9 No.14498715
>>14498257
Seconding this.
6995b6 No.14498778
>>14498114
Ray is REALLY uncanny. Mighty is somewhat recognizable but Ray is just yellow sonic with a shit tail.
84d9b8 No.14498780
>no PC version
Fuck you too, SEGA. Pieces of shit.
f9d5f6 No.14498788
>>14498780
They said in the stream all previous owners will get the content free of charge.
84d9b8 No.14498801
>>14498788
Oh well, that's something. But will they change the fucking title of the PC release?
f9d5f6 No.14498805
>>14498801
Maybe? i don't see why you'd be bothered about the name.
84d9b8 No.14498822
>>14498805
If it doesn't explictly state that I OWN the superior version, the its not superior at all.
69372c No.14498826
>>14498780
denuvocucks owned again
ad5b49 No.14498893
>>14498705
That too
Be honest, what other characters would you want to be playable?
>>14498778
Everyone Sonic character is just Sonic, but with a slight alteration.
ad28b9 No.14498910
>>14498893
>what other characters would you want to be playable?
If we're going with really old characters? Vector, or any of these other guys.
8ace1d No.14498921
>>14498114
Why would they add two shit characters that nobody cares about instead of adding more levels or a chao garden mode or something?
84d9b8 No.14498934
>>14498893
Classic Amy was a pretty obvious choice that they ignored for some fucking reason. Anyways, I wonder if Sonic's stage will have Mania music in Smash 5.
3563e4 No.14498951
>>14498934
They probably choose Desert Green Hill from Forces instead :^)
ad5b49 No.14498961
>>14498921
I know, they should've let us play as the best Sonic character.
8ace1d No.14498979
>>14498961
Would unironically be better.
3fb5cc No.14499070
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>No playable best character.
Fucking sega.
80066b No.14499101
>>14498224
look somewhat Jewish, blue eyes blond hair, not sure. Goldstein could also be German but rarely is actually German.
ab9f0f No.14499113
>>14498893
>Everyone Sonic character is just Sonic, but with a slight alteration.
It's just especially bad with Ray compared to the others.
7a5943 No.14499165
>>14499101
Certain ashkenazis can be completely non-recognizable from germans. I'd say only eyes give away that mischling look.
891a5a No.14499247
>>14498681
And Marine. And Classic Amy.
22e849 No.14499256
>>14498289
I'll buy it if they remove Denuvo with the update, otherwise forget it.
475773 No.14499273
>>14499101
>>14499165
The reason why the vast majority of people with German surnames in America are assumed to be Jewish is because actual German immigrants typically anglicized their surnames while Yiddish-speaking Jews kept their Germanic surnames. In places other than America things are different but America has the most Jews outside of Israel
b04cb1 No.14499413
Is the PC version of Sonic Mania known to be really buggy? I only just started playing, and it could be because I'm playing with the old crack from September, but it's really getting under my skin. It's a shame too because the levels and bosses seem really creative.
69372c No.14499427
>>14499413
>pirating good games
lol kys and enjoy your broken copy of a game that's seen 3 patches to make it bug free
b04cb1 No.14499434
>>14499427
You might be a dumb cunt, but you did actually answer my question, thank you.
6c18ac No.14499465
>>14499070
>classic era sonic
>rouge
I agree that she's good, but this wasn't gonna happen unless this took place in the modern time.
94d90f No.14499603
>>14498148
He actually wasn't in Heroes though. They cut it down to just Espio, Charmy and Vector.
5805c9 No.14499769
Why don't they give me more levels to play rather than adding some autism friends that nobody outside of the Sonic Wiki asked for?
3719fc No.14499797
>>14498114
Will this be on a physical disc?
8ace1d No.14499827
>>14499769
A couple of sprite swaps is easier, I guess.
0a432a No.14499828
>>14498910
>No playable chicken character
This is an outrage!
7f41ba No.14499844
>>14499797
Yeah, They spent the first 15 mins talking about how it was a physical copy.
7da98e No.14499864
>>14498177
someone must have; there are missing person posters in Sonic Generations
daf276 No.14499867
>>14499769
>why is this game made for hardcore fans adding more characters that hardcore fans will like
Gee, I wonder.
39ce3e No.14499875
5805c9 No.14499876
>>14499867
Sonic, Tales and Knuckles are already playable in the game. Explain to me why I would want to play as any other furry retards?
8ace1d No.14499879
>>14499867
He's just a character from some shitty arcade game. Mania is for fans of the Genesis games.
9ac8ae No.14499884
>>14498114
That's awesome. That cover makes me want a genesis cartage for this game.
>>14498788
>all previous owners will get the content free of charge.
Bad ass. I hope SOA keeps kicking ass because god knows that SOJ isn't.
>>14499878
>Only serious games for serious gamers like myself
Take your (you) and fuck off, nigger.
7da98e No.14499891
>>14498910
>Vector, or any of these other guys.
>Vector is in the pic
7da98e No.14499904
>>14499427
>supporting games that use Denuvo
>ever
I was going to buy it without even pirating first. For the first time in a long time I had that much optimism, that much hype, that much faith in the product they were presenting.
And then they added Denuvo. Fuck it, they get pirated with no buy. That shit isn't hitting my system
8420f6 No.14499915
>>14499891
He's saying that, of the characters in the picture, he specifically wants Vector the most.
5f3bb3 No.14499925
>>14498893
Fang the Sniper, and classic Amy.
daf276 No.14499936
>>14499879
Which is why Bean, Bark, and Fang all appear in the game, right? Or why Knuckles is closer to his Chaotix sprite and colors? Why the bubble gimmick from the MS games appears in Hydro City?
f9d5f6 No.14499940
>>14499904
Yeah fair point
3719fc No.14499969
>>14499844
Goddamn it Sega!
4ae182 No.14499971
>>14499878
Doesn't click as well as it does Nintendo. Make the wojack into Chris chan, or an emo kid and then we'll talk.
11746f No.14500113
>>14498114
>Sonic & Tails & Knuckles feat. notTails & notKnuckles
5ff0f1 No.14500127
>>14499976
>DON'T THIS FAT BE FUCK
32d781 No.14500215
When will sega kill sonic team and give the franchise to Taxman and his buddies or at least someone who cares?
10a52e No.14500223
>>14500127
>DON'T DEAD OPEN INSIDE
24964d No.14500224
>>14500127
Do you read like a retard normally?
5ff0f1 No.14500228
>>14500224
Do you piss your pants at the grocery store often?
24964d No.14500230
>>14500228
Do you cum when you see car wrecks usually?
ba9cc7 No.14500233
>>14500230
Do you pass bladder stones at the sight of petting zoos typically?
5ff0f1 No.14500236
>>14500230
Do you lick other people's coffee stains off of Starbucks tables?
24964d No.14500244
>>14500236
Do you generally pick your nose and eat the boogers?
2223a6 No.14500251
>>14500215
>When will sega kill sonic team
They tried to with sonic forces.
ba9cc7 No.14500253
>>14500244
Do you violently shit yourself from time to time?
31b23e No.14500272
>>14500223
Pull your tongue out of my arsehole.
9ac8ae No.14500276
>>14500251
I believe most of the devs from Sonic Forces were Sega of Japan employees that worked on Generations but never worked in level design, which is why the stages in Forces are short, full of cutscenes, and have QTEs. I don't know all of the details, but there's a couple info graphs out there that were made when Forces came out.
892378 No.14500297
>Mighty and Ray
>not Amy
fucking
WHAT
8f8af6 No.14500318
>>14500297
You Amy faggots don't deserve shit. Especially Trueloveheart94
d39c58 No.14500336
>>14500297
The funny part is they may have been working on Amy. The game has a couple of placeholders for characters, one now is obviously Mighty, but the other ain't Ray.
ad430f No.14500695
>>14499101
He looks like a child rapist.
b7f86f No.14500707
>>14499101
Protip: it's not the "-stein" or "-burg" that makes it jewish, it's the "gold-" and "silver-"
d83e72 No.14500723
>Mighty and Ray
>Not Metal Sonic
>Not Fang the Sniper
>Not Vector & Espio who control like they do in Chaotix
>Not even fucking Amy
>Mighty and Ray
Literally who wanted this? I mean, I'm glad it's not Shadow or a modern Sonic, but still.
891a5a No.14500763
>>14500723
>tfw no Sally nor Bunnie ever again
8ace1d No.14500773
>>14500763
>wanting shitty fanfic characters
31b23e No.14500774
>>14500723
I wanted Ray and Mighty. SegaSonic is a good game.
d83e72 No.14500803
>>14500774
Literally who with taste wanted Ray and Mighty?
d45981 No.14500807
>>14499884
>Only serious games for serious gamers like myself
Ironically, this is what adventurefags actually believe.
abd741 No.14500809
bae8b4 No.14500821
>>14499878
>nuwojak
hello cuckchan
b4b32c No.14500876
>Tails and Knucles knockoffs get in because of memes and laziness
Wow, it's fucking nothing
I just want playable metal sonic, goddamn
891a5a No.14500889
>>14500773
>not wanting more bunny girls
4abb56 No.14501922
>>14498822
You don't own any of your games unless you have physical copies. But regardless, that's an extremely autistic thing to be upset about.
ae5d6c No.14501980
>>14500876
Mighty the Armadillo predates Knuckles
131d9a No.14501998
>>14498778
Ray looks like the result of Sonic impregnating Tales' boipussy. That can't be a coincidence…
b4b32c No.14502017
>>14501980
Ah, right
Tails and Sonic knockoffs
7f484f No.14502037
>>14502017
Ray predates Tails.
2fbd7f No.14502066
>>14502037
Wrong. Sonic 2 was 1992, Sega sonic was 1993
7f484f No.14502072
2fbd7f No.14502080
>>14502072
Oh, you'll be sorry~
No, but really, its an honest mistake
e151d9 No.14502097
>>14502066
Even if he was made earlier Ray's design is still shit, Mighty was still considered decent even by Sega since they used him to replace Sonic in Chaotix.
000000 No.14502175
>>14500336
Maybe they want to save real characters for the inevitable Mania 2? The choices fit with the game as deep cuts but I'm completely unable to be excited for Ray. I only know about him from Cybershell's videos who is now dead, RIP
e151d9 No.14502186
>>14502175
> I only know about him from Cybershell's videos who is now dead, RIP
Literally fucking who? Just play the damn game in MAME you fucking loser.
000000 No.14502192
>>14502186
>Play a trackball game without a trackball
The fuck would I waste my time doing that?
f8aa87 No.14502202
>>14502175
Well, the thing is, who are they going to add? Mania is a homage of classic sonic, so all the expanded cast from adventure is out.
That leaves what? Espio and Amy? You could say Vector and Charmy, but they have as many fans as ray and mighty.
What i really want is for them to get their shit together and add all specials at the same time for sonic.
Having Super peel out and insta shield be relegated to a mode where you can't even save, and having to choose between both or drop dash is complete bollocks.
ae5d6c No.14502364
>>14502202
Well, there's also potentially the Sonic the Fighters characters (Bean the Dynamite, Bark the Polar Bear).
In a perfect world, Ristar.
31b23e No.14502365
>>14502192
You were too retarded to figure out how to play SegaSonic.
000000 No.14502467
>>14502365
>too retarded to play mediocre trackball games without the trackball for the lore
Sure thing champ.
e151d9 No.14502510
99c0ea No.14502523
>>14498114
so what will rays and mightys gimmicks be?
1958bf No.14502553
>>14499976
This time he'll eat 24 game overs
a424f1 No.14502651
>No Big the Cat or Froggy
e151d9 No.14502805
>>14502651
Vector would be better since he's a crocodile that can dance.
ad28b9 No.14502867
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Sonic escaped the forces timeline He's back boys!
81aa13 No.14503123
I have never played (Or at least fully) a Sonic game, and since Sonic Mania appeared, the interest in playing 2D sonic games have grown constantly. Now with manis plus, I would like to know the recommended 2D games to play on PC, and in what order. Should I start with Mania?
8ace1d No.14503138
>>14503123
Play through Sonic 1, Sonic 2, and Sonic 3 & Knuckles first. They're not particularly long games.
041a18 No.14503147
>>14503123
Chronological order is 1, 2 3 4 but dont play that, and mania
81aa13 No.14503151
>>14503147
>Chronological order is 1, 2 3 4 but dont play that
What game/s are you talking about.
1341e8 No.14503153
>>14499101
>goldstein
>not sure if he's jewish
Are you shitting me
ad28b9 No.14503154
>>14503123
Japanese version of 1
Ios version of 2
PC version of CD
Sonic 3 & Knuckles 3 complete romhack
There's also some classic style handheld games, but they're all on things like the Neo Geo Pocket.
6357a2 No.14503156
>>14503123
Do as >>14503138 said, and if for some reason you feel like stopping skip to 3&K. I didn't like 1 and 2 that much, but 3&K is really, really solid.
041a18 No.14503166
>>14503151
The one thats crossed out, 4. Its inferior to the rest, and to top it off they had it planned out half life 2 style with episodes, but 3 is never coming.
0d09a7 No.14503195
Is Sonic Mania good?
I didn't pay attention to it at all, so I legitimately don't know. Actually only beat the original Sonic games for the first time a few years ago (because I ignored the series for decades), but I did like them a lot.
>>14503123
Download Kega Fusion (it emulates all the systems that you need) and play 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles (you can find them separately, or combined, just read about it if you're confused) and CD. Knuckles' Chaotix (a 32X game) is good too, but different from the main Sonic games. You can also play Sonic Adventure if you own a Dreamcast, but Sonic Adventure 2 has a good version on GameCube, so you can play it on Dolphin, or on a Wii if you own one. The
Sonic & All-Stars Racing games are cool too.
ad28b9 No.14503219
>>14503195
>Is Sonic Mania good?
You really asking this? If you enjoyed the Classic Era of sonic games then this is just a celebration of all those titles. It's great.
041a18 No.14503234
>>14503195
Yeah its good, in spite of sega's meddling mandating that most of the game had to be rehashed from old sonic games.
81aa13 No.14503290
>>14503195
Kega Fusion doesnt have sound in Ubuntu Mate. http://www.carpeludum.com/kega-fusion/ says that I edit Fusion.ini, but that file doesnt appears…
0d09a7 No.14503480
>>14503219
>>14503234
Good. I will play it at some point. Haven't really informed myself since the game was announced, so it could have been another disaster as far as I knew.
>>14503290
I was assuming that you use Windows. I still have most of my emulators on my Windows 7 machine (I would like to get rid of Windows entirely at some point). I have a PC with Arch and a PC with Lubuntu, so I tested Fusion on Lubuntu.
Fusion's developer actually provides a version of the emulator that was made specifically for Ubuntu and Debian, and it works perfectly fine on my Lubuntu machine. The package is available on the page that you linked to, and it already includes the plugins.
This should work without any alterations, unless it doesn't work on other variants of Ubuntu for some reason, but I really doubt that.
131d9a No.14504081
>>14499165
Makes sense given that Ashkenazim are about as closely related to Germans as the Chinese are to the Japanese.
da4cd3 No.14504088
Sega tried to sell games with denuvo.
Never give money to Sega.
793ec9 No.14504109
>>14504088
Even worse, they sell games period
Never give money to Sega
3719fc No.14504231
>>14498310
"Internalized capitalism"? The fuck is that? Is that when you want to be a commie but you like making money too much?
3719fc No.14504234
>>14500763
We got them in Sonic Spinball.
d39c58 No.14504267
>>14504231
It's what /leftypol/'s catgirl artist got when it realized it was an artist that couldn't feed themselves off making a free webcomic and no commissions.
a798df No.14504292
>>14498204
>REALLY into
This is basic bitch sonic shit
222bc8 No.14504973
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14502651
I would unironically play a 2D Sonic game hack where you play as Big the Cat as long as he uses the same fishing line mechanics from Umihara Kawase. That having been said I'd still rather have a Chaotix hack that turns it into a good game but the disassembly of it is apparently even worse than the Sonic Crackers one, and I need the Chaotix special stages and fucking sweet music. I'll make a fucking learn how to make a fucking design document or gay youtube video if I have to if that means I'll inspire some nerd to make it.
9ec819 No.14511101
>>14504267
>/leftypol/ can't even feed their drawfags
Amazing.
35d96a No.14511153
>>14504973
Chaotix did a lot well, except the gameplay, which was passable and only so because of just how broken the rubberband shit can get.
6d47de No.14511183
>>14498177
He is basically proto Tails, and Mighty is proto Knuckles. Good throwback.
4ae182 No.14512466
>>14498778
>>14498114
Ray looks like Donkey Kong and Sonic's yellow baby
fea77f No.14513345
>>14503195
>recommending Kega Fusion over mednafen
>recommending the original Sanic CD and not the Taxman version
>not recommending Sanic 3 Complete for the proper 3&K experience in $current_year
You just went full retard, lad.
daf276 No.14513890
>>14503195
>but Sonic Adventure 2 has a good version on GameCube
The PC release with mods is the best version, though.
7f41ba No.14513912
>>14513890
Which Adventure 2 mods would be good? I haven't dug too deep into that aspect, only the one that lets you play as multiplayer characters in the main game.
daf276 No.14513951
>>14513912
That's the main one I was thinking about. There's also a few mods that allow you to use the DC version's dlc costumes, like the Halloween outfits.
b94c45 No.14514289
>>14502931
This image is about a pedophile grooming a child. Did something happen with Chris that he doesn't like to talk about?
222bc8 No.14514631
>>14498181
>Oh also, it's gonna be a free update. That's good I guess.
Actually a press release says you have to pay for it, which you really should have been expecting it's fucking Sega they want your money.
>>14511153
The level design was kinda trash and I'm convinced that the time system was originally in place to make different levels exist in different states of completion depending on which you went to first, but due to executive meddling only 5 stages of 5 acts were completed and they said "fuck it 29 acts are more than enough". That's why you keep going to the same area while it's under construction, do nothing there, and then fuck off. Part of my hack idea would be to add and new Act 1s to each Zone, and having the existing levels be the Act 2s, where it is more developed depending on which order you do them in. You can plop the boss down in practically the same place each time the level designs are so similar.
d5b192 No.14515847
>>14498893
>Be honest, what other characters would you want to be playable?
OBJECTIVE: BE SUPERIOR TO SONIC IN EVERY WAY
0a4b91 No.14516144
>>14515847
Including domestic assistance?
Maid Metal Sonic a cute
d5b192 No.14516270
>>14513912
>>14513951
>Mods that let you play as multiplayer characters in the main game
>tfw I could play as metal sonic in sonic stages
7f41ba No.14516340
>>14516270
Yeah, it's pretty good.
e22ba6 No.14516896
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>Sonic racing game with just sonic characters
Dunno if this is cool or obscenely gay.
I want to play as Vectorman and Ristar god fucking damn it
29a8b9 No.14517587
>>14516896
Hoping for Mighty in the new racing game since they got revived in Mania Plus.
eec9b5 No.14519252
>>14516896
It better be on-foot this time, or heads will fucking roll.
CAN YOU FEEL THE SUNSHINE
daf276 No.14519359
>>14519252
Anon, the very first thing you see and hear is a car. It's going to be Sonic Drift 3.
7f41ba No.14519493
>>14519252
>>14519359
They deliberate said it's not a sequel to anything, but it would be neat if this game combined the elements of every Sonic racing game, so you could pick a vehicle, go on foot, or use Extreme gear, but that's just a pipe dream.
daf276 No.14519523
>>14519493
What if the game is about racing with tiny cars on your feet?
66b7ff No.14519538
>>14516144
For real, a Metal Sonic spinoff that plays similar to Shadow the Hedgehog could actually work. Seeing that he's a killer robot, he can make the edge work in some ways, but most importantly it could explore the same moral system that lead you to different paths. Hero or Villain, the main objective is to just surpass Sonic. Kind of like Vile in Megaman X.
b4b32c No.14519638
>>14519538
I've thought about what a metal sonic game could look like for an embarrassing amount of time, and I think rather than a retarded and arbitrary mission system, it could work with CD's time travel mechanic, branching levels based on which future you get, making the 'moral choice' naturally form from the gameplay
4ae182 No.14519646
>>14516896
So it's not…
SONIC RIDERS
SONIC DRIFT
SONIC R
SONIC & SEGA ALL-STARS
nor is it
What will it be?
cd87c6 No.14520150
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14500773
>shitty fanfic characters
I can't see satam being any worse than what the games have been doing for the last 10 years.
71abb4 No.14520180
>>14499070
That artwork is absolute shit
222bc8 No.14520184
>>14520150
What new characters have they added since 2008?
6d47de No.14520197
>>14520184
In Forces they added Infinite and Ohsee McDonutsteel.
222bc8 No.14520211
>>14520197
Aside from Orbot, Cubot, and Sega trying REALLY hard to force the Deadly Six, I'm pretty sure most characters have just stayed in one game since about '06. Do Whips count as characters, power-ups, or whatever the animal buddies are?
ac18f1 No.14520215
>>14502931
>Love Is Love
what did he mean by this
cd87c6 No.14520225
>>14520211
Yeah, after 06 they started just doing one-shots for a while until Lost World. Probably because they were scared to try and expand the cast any more.
>Do Whips count as characters, power-ups, or whatever the animal buddies are?
I wouldn't count them as characters cause they lack any real personality other than being what they are.
222bc8 No.14520230
>>14520225
Okay, so they're like Flicky or Cucky.
f9d5f6 No.14520244
>>14516273
Yeah,but would you FUCK a female metal sonic?
813138 No.14520530
11833b No.14520584
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Do not buy the next Sonic comics!
7f41ba No.14520653
>>14520584
I don't read comic's so it doesn't really effect me, but it still isn't much of a joy to hear the comic's industry is in even worse shape then video games.
11833b No.14520685
>>14520653
It's pretty sad. Comics and vidya are closer together than most people think. If you want to know what's going to happen to video games in the future, just look at the comic books industry.
d5b192 No.14521747
>Just want to use the Figure 8 dash in stages that don't fucking suck
>it's included in Mania
<only as an unlockable and usable via cheat code
<a cheat code that can only be used in a file where you cannot save your data
FOR WHAT FUCKING PURPOSE?
d5b192 No.14521758
>>14516340
>so fucking fast the game can't keep up
the black shield was fucking fun to do in VS but this is goddamn hilarious
>>14516896
>Vectorman
fucking top taste
d5b192 No.14521773
>>14519638
>>14519538
Shadow's moral system and "defining who you are" worked obscenely well and it could work for Metal Sonic as well. It also would work as a counterpoint to Sonic's modern gameplay with a few tweaks.
>Can perform a boost, a shield, or other abilities
>these run on a "heat" meter
>this "heat" meter fills up as you use abilities
>if it maxes out, Metal overloads and slows down severely and is vulnerable
>have to juggle the timing of using a Jet Boost or using a shield or special attack
>practical use of "tapping" boost through a group of foes like bowling pins and taking a split second of cool off before doing it again
>think like Vanquish's suit overheat system where you need to dedicate to one ability at any one time
But yes, the Edge aspect works well since the outright thematic is "be better than sonic". You'd be able to choose if this meant he's going to try and kill sonic and Co, or if he's going to do the same thing Sonic and co are doing "but better".
Seriously, Metal coming out of nowhere to basically just be better than Sonic as the hero of something would be baller.
d5b192 No.14521793
>>14520211
Whisps are just their way of introducing power ups outside of the shields. And interestingly, due to the forward timeskip of Forces, Silver is now around, meaning that "dead future" in 06 took place around this time.
>>14520197
>Infinite and "The Rookie"
Infinite was a good addition and his thing was pretty cool, just that dev time crunched the potential during the final segment. Still, he comes off enjoyably edgy and I wouldn't mind seeing him come back one day.
e22ba6 No.14521849
>>14519646
It's probably still a Sonic car racing game, just without the "all-stars" suffix.
"Something" racing.
>>14521758
Vectorman is my fucking boy. I'd never not main him if he were in.
>>14519252
>On foot
>Literally the only thing you see in the trailer is car headlights and engines roaring
Anon pls
6991f1 No.14521949
>>14498204
>have to be really into Sonic
Come on, Mighty and the rest of the Chaotix were main characters in the Archie books back in the day.
6991f1 No.14521960
>>14521793
>Whisps are just their way of introducing power ups outside of the shields. And interestingly, due to the forward timeskip of Forces, Silver is now around, meaning that "dead future" in 06 took place around this time
that is very, very wrong.
Silver is from 200 years in the future.
daf276 No.14522620
>>14521773
>Shadow's moral system and "defining who you are" worked obscenely well
No, it didn't. You had effectively good, bad, and neutral choices each mission, but the only ones that were any fun were the neutral choices. No matter your path, the story ended up being incredibly disjointed, even if you went on a pure good or bad route. Levels themselves weren't even affected by your choices. Everyone attacked you, no matter whose side you were ever on. And a lot of Shadow's revelations were incredibly stupid and corny.
01751b No.14528519
All I ask for is a PC copy without Denuvo, fucking hell Sega why do you have to be cancer
cc0faf No.14528527
>>14528519
Stop pirating everything and maybe it'll happen
10b1e1 No.14528636
>>14528527
Stop putting DRM and more sales WILL happen. The earlier Platinum PC ports, Sega Vintage, and earlier Sonic ports of games like Generations prove that.
abd741 No.14528652
>>14528527
>believing this bullshit
Yeah, no.
cc0faf No.14532048
>>14528636
>>14528652
>Piracy isn't bad for the industry you guise
>PC gaming completely dead outside of pixelshit and multiplats
I wish I'd listened.
daf276 No.14532234
>>14528527
>implying copy protection is just to deter piracy
Please. Even if no one pirated, the big publishers would still be putting drm on their games. They want to do all they can to kill second-hand purchasing and games as a product. They would prevent you from installing a game on multiple machines, if they could get away with it. Piracy has always been a scapegoat excuse to lock down software and shift the blame of poor sales from their own bad decisions.
cc0faf No.14532240
>>14532234
I guarantee you if publishers offered to drop all DRM in return for 90% of pirates stopping nobody would take that deal.
85ea48 No.14532277
>>14520584
Maybe if someone on here or /co/ scans them we can have a story time and laugh at the bad shit, make memes & macros, etc.
daf276 No.14532297
>>14532240
What exactly are you trying to argue with that statement? Sure, if that situation actually happened, you could argue piracy causes a large amount of harm to the industry. But that situation isn't going to happen. You're arguing that pirates are bad based on a hypothetical situation that won't exist. Your argument is null. If piracy was such a large problem like publishers and you claim it is, companies like Gog wouldn't be nearly as successful as they are.
10b1e1 No.14532458
>>14532240
People would pirate AND those same pirates would be grateful enough to reward them with their money if they like the games. Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen was pirateable 2 weeks before it officially came out but in doing so, word of mouth spread to generate enough hype that its PC port beat the shit out of their own Denuvo ridden SFV and MVCI corpses in sales, as another example.
384141 No.14532713
>>14532234
>>14532240
>>14532297
>>14532458
https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf
The EU suppressed this 300-page study that shows that piracy does not hurt sales. They paid over $400,000 for the report but never openly discussed it because it could not reliably show any correlation between piracy and lost sales.
Like someone else said, big companies care more about making money than they do pleasing their customers. The more they fill their garbage products with DRM like Denuvo that bogs down products to the point of unplayability, the less people will actually want to play them.
One of the worst things to happen to the gaming industry was the loss of rentals on a mass scale combined with a large push for preorders. If you can't rent or demo games, then how the fuck can you tell if a game is worth playing before you buy it? It destroyed the industry when the innate quality control mechanism ceased to function.
Piracy is the only reasonable alternative anymore. If you ask me, making piracy protection built into the game to check key files, as was the case with so many NES Konami games and the PS1 Spyro games, really was the way to do it; make a pirated game like a demo, and work on actually making it fun and playable, but short-change the people who don't purchase it enough to encourage them to buy the game.
951fea No.14532760
>>14516273
Even Metal Sanik gets more tips than Flat Cat.
b4ed79 No.14532775
So is this gonna be an update or are they gonna make you buy the game again if you want the extra content?
abd741 No.14532785
>>14532775
Read the thread, its an update
b4b32c No.14533423
>>14532048
>Piracy is bad for the industry you guise
>The 3DS, nearing the seven year lifespan mark, and competing with a heavily marketed replacement console from the same company for over a year now, is still getting some big releases despite being so absolutely BTFO by hacking that you can download games right off the eshop for free
"PC gaming" is "dead" because it's easy to port shit and nobody wants to pander to just one relatively small portion of the market
222bc8 No.14533561
>>14532775
>>14532785
If you read the thread and the press release, you have to buy the update, but at least you don't have to buy the entire game.
daf276 No.14534886
>>14533561
Didn't Aaron say, during the conference, that it'd be free for all existing Mania owners? It might be one of those situations where it's freely given to those who have the game at the time of release, but anyone who buys it, later, has to also buy the dlc.
abd741 No.14534929
>>14534886
>Didn't Aaron say, during the conference, that it'd be free for all existing Mania owners?
That's it yes.
23bc5b No.14534943
>>14534886
I remember him saying something like "pricing will be announced later"
ec08a6 No.14535402
>>14534886
>>14534929
>>14534943
I'm guessing that it'll be $5, at worst $10. I hazard to think that the $30 physical price point from the old $20 is due to the "collectors" stuff packaged in. What might be done is that the game will update with many of the little fixes and graphical tweaks to everyone and paywalling for "encore mode" and Mighty & Ray as the DLC.
ad28b9 No.14535429
How do I play the remakes of the first 2 sonic games on PC?
4dba55 No.14535520
>>14532760
I'd give Cream a tip if you know what I mean.
c6e8a4 No.14535582
>>14498224
Glad i stopped caring and jumped the ship before it was set ablazed and exploded, especially since 2 of the fandoms there got so bad just trying to see them makes me cringe so hard.
80066b No.14535589
>>14535429
I gave up trying this. But apparently you can with an Android iOS emulator and a cracked version of the games that bypass having to sign into the Google play store. Or you could use the Android emulator to actually connect to a real Google play account. Something like Genymotion or BlueStacks.
80066b No.14535608
>>14500707
>>14503153
Wrong. I personally know a German family with the name Goldstein.
25f9ba No.14536172
>>14535608
>Modern Germany
>Not full of jews
e52a9e No.14541303
>>14536172
America is modern Germany and it'll be where the fourth Reich starts.
4ae182 No.14542053
>>14535520
I 'don't you what you mean, care to explain yourself?
e6b1aa No.14542573
>>14532277
I was actually planning on doing that.
4ae182 No.14542580
>>14542573
That fucking bulge.
2dbcf5 No.14542589
>>14542580
You got something against puffy vulvas anon?
b52143 No.14542626
>>14542573
that's official art or argento made that?
e6b1aa No.14542695
>>14542626
Appears to be Argento.
cc0faf No.14548369
>>14542580
>he doesn't like a bulge
635f3b No.14551031
>Dislike Sonic games
>Love Rouge
What do?
3751ad No.14551485
>>14551031
Sanics are not for sexual.
d5b192 No.14552691
>>14522620
I'm saying the basis worked and would have been worthwhile to expand upon via a few basic tweaks. Ending snippits based on the pathway you chose would be interesting.
The counterpoint to the moral system in place was that you could switch it on the fly as opposed to deciding before the level started and making events to that direction; IE: you're working for black doom, the aliens help you while GUN fights you, but you gotta choose that at the beginning of the stage and can't switch mid mission. The most I could see would be going for the neutral pathways, you could "falsely" align with one or the other side but have to fight against one of them, and the alliance would only work if you'd been doing good for them.
Probably the best alliance system I've seen is in the Wii version of Godzilla unleashed:
>4 factions, Earth monsters, Military, Aliens, Rampant Mutants
>Monsters start off associated with a particular faction
>Your actions determine how the other monsters and military/alien vehicles respond to you
>By destroying the crystals and protecting the earth, you gain alliance with the Eath defenders, even if you're an alien or G force
>By not destroying buildings or military weapons, but destroying alien weapons, you gain G force alliance
>destroying earth military and buildings will gain Alien alliance
>destroying everything and ruining everyone's day will align you with the mutants
It's fun to align yourself based on your actions.
>>14521960
Silver's origin other than "the future" means jack shit about now. Much like Trunks, who gives a shit if it's one week or 200 years?
8640b9 No.14553933
>>14521793
>due to the forward timeskip of Forces, Silver is now around, meaning that "dead future" in 06 took place around this time.
>>14521960
>>14552691
The truth is even stupider than that.
'06 Silver no longer exists, but in the PSP spinoff game "Sonic Rivals 2", they introduce a totally different Silver from a totally different ruined future being terrorized by a totally different fire monster called Iblis Ifrit.
They defeat it in a way that doesn't alter the future, allowing Silver to continue existing. That's the one who's been taking vacations in 'the past' for the last decade.
1c8dc5 No.14553966
>>14551031
Fap and/or make a fangame starring rouge
>>14553933
> but in the PSP spinoff game "Sonic Rivals 2", they introduce a totally different Silver
is he different from Sonic Rivals 1?
3fb5cc No.14554021
>>14520180
You're absolute shit.
8640b9 No.14554195
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>>14553966
Shit, I forgot about the Rivals 1 part because it amounts to nothing; he's only in that game because "fake Eggman" is also from the future, which means Silver's only here to drag the guy back there.
He succeeds, but the guy escapes to the past again in the sequel, creating a Bad Future in Act 2 and kicking off the shit mentioned earlier.
As for Forces, it's essentially the same thing; Silver's future gets fucked up again when the Phantom Ruby appears in Sonic's time, so he goes back to un-fuck it.
daf276 No.14554217
>>14554195
I don't know why he just doesn't stay in the past, at this point.
c6e8a4 No.14554359
>>14554195
I really wish he should stay there Silver is a shit character over all and the only reason they brought him back after 06 disaster it was because some of the SEGA staff liked him despite him being a boring character over all.
b65eff No.14561094
>>14551031
Make furry fanfic same as everyone else.
578fdd No.14561195
>ray and mighty get in
>all this speging
WAIFUFAGS GET CUCKED IN REAL TIME
408244 No.14561212
>>14502931
Chris got trolled so hard he/she sincerely thought that by making that image of him buttfucking a character who is supposed to be his son that he could get crystal, his supposed daughter, to become real. he/she's completely disconnected from reality.
b89e63 No.14561313
>>14500127
>BE FUCK FAT DON'T THIS des~
b97839 No.14561353
>>14520584
Fuck off Yellow Flash
613afb No.14561537
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14500889
She has her own romhack that’s pretty great
25f9ba No.14568078
>>14561212
Also in court soon.
abd741 No.14568146
>>14561212
>he/she
It's a he you nignog.
>he's completely disconnected from reality.
No shit.
e6c6eb No.14568185
>Scroll the Catalog
>See Ray and Mighty.
>Haven't given a fuck about Sonic since Shadow the Hedgehog.
>Suddenly give fucks.
Hooleyyy shit.
4b341f No.14569024
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
First episode of Sonic Mania Adventures is up.
1c8dc5 No.14569040
>your face when Ray rips off Flying Squirrel Mario
8610d1 No.14569123
>>14568146
Chris has ascended beyond sex. There is no pronoun that can accurately describe his genitals anymore.
222bc8 No.14569146
>>14569123
How about an adjective: terrifying.
7da98e No.14569165
>>14569024
>story told by actions
>dynamic angles
>strong understanding of squash and stretch techniques
that was beautiful
70cadb No.14569200
>>14569024
>SoJ didn't actually retcon classic sanic in forces
Maybe the japs have finally learnt their lesson and in a couple decades sega will be a functioning company.
000000 No.14569223
>>14498114
>no new levels
Fuck it
222bc8 No.14569252
>>14569223
If I had to guess "Encore Mode" would probably add the cut Phantom Hardboiled Heavies in a boss rush, and maybe turn Egg Reverie into an actual zone like the random parts found in the level imply.
7f41ba No.14569415
>>14569200
>SoJ didn't actually retcon classic sanic in forces
>Maybe the japs have finally learnt their lesson and in a couple decades Sega will be a functioning company.
Well it's just that they put so little effort into explaining things, that no one could tell what the fuck was going on with Sonic's canon. Now thanks to new shit coming to light, like getting confirmation from the SXSW Sonic panel, that Forces Classic Sonic is the same one from Generations, we now know what is really going on.
The current Sonic canon is like this.
The modern Sonic is the original Sonic, he's lived though every game, but then Sonic Generations happened.
Generations created a split in the timeline Modern Sonic used to be classic sonic, but the Classic Sonic from Generations is now a Sonic in a changed timeline. Classic Sonic now had lived though Sonic 1, 2, 3, and CD, but then Generations changed his path.
Modern Sonic never lived though Sonic Mania, but this alt Timeline Classic Sonic did, this New Classic Sonic may never live though the events of any sonic game after 1, 2, 3, and CD. which means Sonic Mania time line is a timeline where the Adventure games and everything after may never happen.
Sonic Team basically found a way to make Classic Sonic games that can completely ignore everything that has happened in the last 20 years, while still having the modern Sonic timeline for games that can still use characters that are fan favorites like Shadow.
222bc8 No.14569444
>>14569415
So did this "Great Banana Split" get mentioned anywhere or are you just pretending that it happened?
7f484f No.14569463
>>14569444
Sonic Mania is officially considered the direct sequel to Sonic 3K, I think you can read that in any description of the game.
Mania ends with Classic Sonic going into Forces, which is driven home by the Sonic Mania Adventures short, which starts with him teleporting home after Forces.
Iizuka also stated that Generations and Forces Classic Sonic are the same Sonic.
So now it's 1-2-3K-CD-Mania-Forces-Forces Adventures-Whatever Comes Next with Generations probably somewhere after Sonic 2.
7f41ba No.14569465
>>14569444
It's the only possible explanation that makes any fucking sense.
This timeline split is never going to actually be mentioned in any of games this explanation of the canon is just for nerds like myself.
7f484f No.14569469
>>14569463
Meant Mania Adventures, obviously.
The 'same Sonic' thing was mentioned during SXSW, by the way.
70cadb No.14569498
>>14569415
I was talking about how the way that the Phantom Ruby's powers were explained made it sound like Classic Sanic and pretty much Mania in it's entirety was all illusions or something. I distinctly remember anons flipping their shit over it. That's cool too I guess.
222bc8 No.14569504
>>14569463
>direct sequel
Wasn't it really vague to the point of not addressing 4? I'm sure Chaotix also happened, given there are a couple references.
>Iizuka also stated that Generations and Forces Classic Sonic are the same Sonic.
Wasn't that to clear up the weird "Sonic from another dimension" line?
>>14569465
Look, Sonic canon lost it's track after 06 happened, before that it kinda made sense. Time travel has always been a but fuggy in the Sonic series anyway.
7f484f No.14569515
>>14569504
It doesn't adress 4 at all. But they did directly say that Mania is a follow up which happens right after 3K. Considering Chaotix's status as a game AND the Sonic Heroes character soft-reboot, Chaotix was probably never considered much of a canon cause nobody gives a fuck about it.
I don't remember the dimensions line (I figure those may have been two separate questions), but he did say that Forces Sonic and Generations Sonic are one and the same.
7f41ba No.14569516
>>14569504
>Sonic canon lost it's track after 06
More like Sonic's canon stopped mattering after 06.
The games from Sonic Adventure up to Sonic 06 are the only ones that need to happen in order. Unleashed, Colors, and Lost world, could happened at any moment in the timeline and nothing would really be changed.
7f41ba No.14569524
>>14569516
The only real question that is confusing about Sonic's canon now is
Silver and Blaze work.
and it can be explained with my bull shit here.
Since Sonic was dead in the 06 future Silver was somehow intentionally or unintentionally able to summon Blaze to his Dimension. Since 06's events were erased if Silver and Blaze where to meet now, it would be for the first time. Sonic Rivals is just non-canon, Nobody played that anyway. This may suck for shippers but Silver and Blaze really didn't have THAT much in 06 any of what would be interesting relationship development happened years off screen anyway. There really wasn't much in the game itself besides that blatant shipping fuel at the end.
Of course no one at Sonic team is going to go through the effort of fixing this. they are just going to sweep it all under the rug,
7f41ba No.14569528
>>14569524
*is how silver and blaze
e151d9 No.14569559
>>14569516
I liked how Sonic 06 was just slapped together from unfinished assets and sold as a new game, you could tell the damn thing wasn't finished once you started playing it. It's why they gave up on the adventure format.
7f41ba No.14569628
>>14569559
Even though 06 is clearly not a game that was in a state where it should have been sold, i'm still looking forward to that Fan made PC port, all it needs to do is cutdown on the loading time and i'm good. 06 is actually allot of fun to fuck around with.
222bc8 No.14569639
>>14569559
Sonic 06 has the same problems as so many Sonic games. Sega demanded the game be released when it was clearly unfinished. Sonic Boom had the same problem. Sonic & Knuckles only exists because of that, instead or just being Sonic 3. Actually, Sonic 3 is probably what made them think that was okay. What's Sonic Forces problem? Is it unfinished? Made by interns or newbies? I know Sonic Team doesn't actually exist, like Santa or the Holocaust.
7f41ba No.14569654
>>14569639
And they can get away with it because Kids don't know what quality is, I had no idea how flawed most 3D sonic games were until years later when i was old enough to actually look at games critically.
I didn't see why playing though Sonic heroes 4 times or Shadow 10 times to unlock the true endings was a problem, since i just liked playing the games and was glad there was so much content for me to play, even though in reality it just allot of reusing levels.
222bc8 No.14569679
>>14569654
Sonic Team or Sega had this really fucking weird obsession with padding the game time, so they did shit like that and the Werehog stages, before they realized it was stupid and just made Sonic Colors and people loved that shit. People will always prefer optional content like chaos emeralds, red rings, or alternate playable characters to being forced to play fishing minigames. Again, Sonic Team made fishing minigames NOT the highlight of the game. There's a reason people fucking love the Chao Garden and not Big. I said it before and I'll say it again, somebody make a Sonic rom hack where Big has Umihara Kawase moves.
7f41ba No.14569694
>>14569679
I actually enjoy Big's gameplay, but that is not shit you force people to do to get to the Super Sonic final boss.
7f41ba No.14569708
>>14569654
Sonic adventure 2 had it the best where it takes like 6 hours to beat the game. but there is around 60 hours of optional content to get %100 and it's only as low as 60 if you already know what your doing.
7f41ba No.14569714
>>14569708
Wanted to post this one (because I like it better) but whatever.
e151d9 No.14569771
>>14569708
>where it takes like 6 hours to beat the game.
Nah, it's like 3 or 4 hours at best.
7f41ba No.14569789
>>14569771
I guess your right, though looking it up I see people taking around 2 hours for both hero and dark story, but if you don't get stuck 3 hours for everything does sound more right.
e151d9 No.14570062
>>14569789
I'm just judging based off the general audience that played it during release date, ie kids.
6c18ac No.14570949
>>14554359
He's more popular than the regular cast outside Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy, and Rouge.
He's not going anywhere. Get used to him.
d39c58 No.14571272
>>14570949
>He's not going anywhere. Get used to him.
I would if the fuckers would bother to add Fire cat back into the game with him, but nope.
7f41ba No.14571302
>>14571272
I think Blaze doesn't come back because shes a Dimps made character. She shouldn't actually be dead, but I think Sonic team thinks she's dead after 06, since she's not there during the end of the world even though time shouldn't matter.
2d5e18 No.14571324
>>14498280
Is it? I thought it was pretty common for people to say "to life" when they're drinking and feasting in larger congregations, something which jews don't do.
222bc8 No.14571360
>>14571272
I'd be interested to see Blaze use some form of boost gameplay in an otherwise classic 2D Sonic game, I think it's a good niche for her. Unfortunately that would involve making boost gameplay good, which might be imposible.
f9d5f6 No.14571364
>>14571272
Why would you want such a flat character?
10b1e1 No.14573757
>>14571302
She shows up in Genrrations.
7f41ba No.14573823
>>14573757
Oh yeah, I completely forgot, since everyone who isn't Sonic, Tails, or a boss does pretty much nothing in Gens. but it's nice to know that 06 was just poorly thought out, and that Blaze isn't canonically dead in Sonic Teams eyes.
222bc8 No.14574754
>>14573823
She also shows up in like every Olympic game. But then again so did the Deadly Six and literally nobody but Sega cares about them.
7f41ba No.14574780
>>14574754
I don't consider showing up in a spin off to have the same canonical weight as showing up in a mainline game.
Vergil being in Marvel vs Capcom 3 doesn't necessarily mean he's still alive in the main games.
Then again this is Sonic so I don't know why I care so much about canon, when Sonic Team seems to care so little.
222bc8 No.14574790
>>14574780
It's not like most of the pre-Adventure cast, who seem to have dropped off the face of the Earth. Well, aside from posters and Mania at least.