/v/ - Video Games

The game is fine in its current state but nothing too ground breaking. The progression is VERY gated. Pirate it.

>>14424761

Did you really just ruin your own thread like that?

Why would you do that?

>>14424761

>Redditor can't form his own opinion

What a shocker.

>>14424787

I don't get why retards like these can't understand that the only person who gets fucked by these gun restrictions are good guys and people who actually commit the evil sprees will still get them regardless.

It's worth a playthrough but it has ZERO replay value at all. Pirate and go back to reddit, please.

Pirate it and decide for yourself, numbnuts.

>>14424826

I would just get it now,it's officially "done" so you can get all the content that matters,anything post that'll be released will most likely be insignificant.

>>14424834

But the replayability is very low, so wouldn't it be better to just wait?

>>14424846

You'd be waiting for an update to add replayability that may never come.

>>14424854

Do you think they will add DLC?

>>14424857

Probably not,but anythings possible with people this retarded

>>14424846

If you wait, prepare for Asian main character to be changed to black transwoman no men allowed. Do it now before you can't anymore.

>>14424871

>Asian

Lolno, he's a BR.

>>14424867

I will probably wait like a month.

>>14424871

Honestly the shadow of the Player Character alone is distracting. He looks so comical, like an Overwatch Character, while all other creatures and structures don't have that comical look to them.

It's objectivally a bad design decision.

>>14424857

The devs have confirmed that a paid expansion featuring an arctic biome is in development. However, it will be a separate gameplay experience with a different character that is confirmed to be female and likely some flavour of shitskin (as noted, the devs are disgustingly SJW).

You should pirate it now, as it is feature complete, and then you can pirate the expansion when it releases.

No one has mentioned the fucking sound designer debacle yet?

>>14424910

Is that Techmo's Deception?

>>14424931

He says political agenda in the first post you cock mongler

>>14424946

no its Trapt :^)

>>14424761

>a "r/Patientgamer"

Were you intentionally trying to derail your own thread

>>14424787

Did anyone call Flayra out on the fact that someone from his team already gave a far better reason for not having guns and actually said it wasn't for the retarded reason he insisted on?

>>14424774

>I was only pretending to be cancer

No, you did a good job at being cancer, no need to pretend.

>>14424732

If you're honest about pirating, you have very little risk in pirating to try it (other than time and possibly data caps).

From what I've seen it seems like a comfy exploration game.

If you want an exploration/base building game with more goals and an actual game, try Terraria.

>>14424910

>implies that guns are boring and 2easy

Yeah, no shit they are easy to use, it's why they are used to fight instead of swords. I swear to God, liberals are born stupid.

>>14425026

What possible reason is there not to arm yourself with a gun in a hostile environment if you possess the means to do so?

>>14425052

I'd be okay with energy guns or just straight up spear guns,and if he's against those then it makes no sense,those are pure survival tools.

>>14425046

>Western developer in charge of designing a female character

Is there some way that doesn't involve violence to stop them from trying?

>>14425046

Yay a nigger bitch to compliment the nigger buck

>>14425067

>oy vey I’m too fucking weak and scared to actually fight for what i believe

>why does this keep happening to me

Dipshit.

>>14425073

No, I mean, I'm okay rounding up every artist and writer in the West and summarily executing them, along with their whole family tree to cleanse the gene pool, I'm just wondering if there is another way to make them stop short of breaking every bone in their bodies through savage beatings.

>>14424732

Why bother? It’s more propaganda. At least it’s a “crafting game” that actually has a finished story/goal to accomplish rather than being open ended without successes (nearly all of them) or GUARANTEEING that you will die eventually (The Long Dark).

>>14425083

If there was a way to fix things other than exterminating all jews, it would have been done by now. We have tried literally everything. It doesn’t work.

>>14425052

It's a gameplay over realism thing. It's completely true that a game which you have to find alternate means of defending yourself from just shooting everything would make things more interesting. Which is why "muh sandy hook" is especially retarded argument, because he already had a far better explanation given which actually makes them look like game devs who care about good game design.

>>14424732

Yes, pirate it the SJW must be curbed.

Also it's a great game, but as the first anons said, the progression is a bit tedious, but overall is a good experience.

>>14424917

Thank you, anon. That is the information I required. You are cool.

>>14425026

Probably not, since it would mean he would lose his job.

>>14425050

Thanks for the suggestion, but Terraria seems to be more fun in multiplayer.

>>14425061

I know there is a laser cutter in the game. Can you use it to attack creatures?

>>14425087

Funny that you mention the Long Dark. Haven't played it in a long time.

Has it received any updates?

>>14425119

>Thanks for the suggestion, but Terraria seems to be more fun in multiplayer.

Enemy stats scale based on the number of players. But yeah it can be more fun in co-op, especially against the end game bosses. You can solo it all however.

>>14424774

Faggot, just googled it and it's a real reddit page.

If you were "merely pretending :^)" and don't visit plebbit, how the fuck do you know that page specifically exists?

Redditor fuck off

>>14425119

The “first season” (yes, it’s that kind of shit) of The Long Dark was released a while ago, and they updated several of the actual gameplay mechanics along with it (if you just want to play the free roam). I still really love the concept and the art’s okay and the sound design is fucking comfy as hell, but “You cannot win, ever, in any capacity, and there is nothing you can do to change that” isn’t enjoyable for me. That’s my life already. I play games to keep myself from thinking about suicide, not to be reminded of it.

>>14425146

Well, he is correct. What the cuck doesn't want you to know is that those school shooting happen in schools with a nigger and spic majority.

>>14425090

The only way to beat jews is to make superior products and not ruining them with supreme kikery

>>14425061

>speargun

>not only self defense but fishing tool

>can upgrade with a rope to reel spear back with fish you're gonna cook

>still requires you to grab fish by hand if you want them to be alive

>using the speargun+rope on a large animal = motherfucking sea rodeo, bitch

but these fucks are too soy

>>14425181

>lol just make your own thing that is better

What part of “we have tried everything; it doesn’t work” was unclear? A better product WAS made. A country left the international banking cartel and issued its own currency without usury. Suddenly the country was attacked by every single nation on Earth, invaded, and its people exterminated and brainwashed. If you make your own website, suddenly it stops showing up on ✡search engines✡. If you make your own company, suddenly it starts getting boycotted by suppliers and purchasers. NOTHING BUT BLOOD CAN STOP IT. Not kicking them out of a country (because they always get back in). Not forcing them to convert (because they lie about it and don’t change their behavior).

>>14425358

It's called "virtue signalling".

>>14425203

Gimme a heated speargun to cook the fish as it hits, save me having to swing wildly everytime I want to eat a fucking fishie

remove reddit

>>14424761

Eat shit and die, niggerfaggot.

>>14424787

All you have to do to counter this is make it so if you kill large predators, the blood attracts a larger and more aggressive predator/scavenger, you can even give it a cloaking/camoflage mechanic so you don't have to worry about just spawning it on top of someone.

>>14424787

>guns are ebil

>but crushing a motherfucker with boulders is okay

I guess they want violent, creative deaths to scratch that serial killer itch?

I got a solid non-stop weekend out of it, using the wiki as little as possible (which is not difficult if you have any attention span or problem solving skills at all).

I got the Cyclops (40ft sub) and then left it turned on while I worked on my base, which apparently drains the batteries even if it's not moving. Then I didn't want to farm the materials necessary to build a recharger for the batteries so I just dropped the game. I'll go back when I have ample free time again because the endgame stuff actually interests me.

>>14425146

>>14425180

The big list of school shootings that claimed we had already had 18 by mid-january is maintained by an organization that has no official capacity and just happens to be the only people keeping track of that kind of thing. Their criteria is ANY time a firearm is discharged on school property, which includes accidents that resulted in no injuries, and suicide inside a car in the parking lot on a weekend.

>>14425582

Pretty much this. Pirated this turd and halfway through the game my save files got corrupted for some reason. The game doesn't create backups either so you're double fucked.

Second time around my vehicles started vanishing into thin air so I just said fuck it and spawned a cyclops and finished the game.

Its not a particularly involving game. All the wildlife is dull as fuck as your only interaction with them is avoiding them which means cutting the engines off in your sub, turning off the floodlights whenever you are noticed and then going out to repair any damage if you get hit.

All interesting interactions are front loaded as once you get the cyclops it all boils down to going through the motions. The wreckage spawn is somewhat randomized which means you can get lucky and get the cyclops schematics in the first hour or will have to scour every inch of the seabed to find the specific part of a section that you need. The story would be interesting if it didn't devolve into an uninvolved fetch quest by the end. The enemies could have been interesting if there were more than one way to deal with them, the base building could have been interesting if it wasn't largely pointless and dull, the crafting was just tedious and annoying even if you have all the items required(why even have the waiting time).

>>14425643

oh and if you thought you would just play it to enjoy the scenery? well tough luck, almost everything later on is hidden beneath 3 different shader effects and layer of darkness or surrounded by annoying enemies that can attack you through terrain if you stop for a closer look.

Apparently the sound designer they fired over wrong think was working there for over 11 years.

>>14425643

It genuinely sounds like you pirated an older, much shittier version. The parts spawns aren't completely random, they are in specific areas. The older versions (I've heard) had save issues, and I don't know about vehicles despawning but the only time I had a vehicle disappear it's because a leviathan attacked it while I wasn't in it, and it blew up.

>the base building could have been interesting if it wasn't largely pointless and dull

The base building is there for the sake of base building. You could operate out of a single tube with a hatch, a solar panel, and a couple lockers if you really wanted to. But people want to make giant sprawling underwater bases in forests of bio-luminescent flora, because it's fucking fun.

You sound like a pseudo speed runner, just wanting to reach the end as fast as possible so you can check it off your backlog list or something.

It's fun (and terrifying) for the first few hours of fucking around. Worth pirating.

>>14425815

that's because you're underage

>>14425815

King of Seafood

>>14425815

I liked far sky,shame there was dick all to do in it.

>>14426119

>On the plus side given T-Dawg's recent statements on video games

What did who say?

>>14425840

That game was surprisingly good, especially the writing, I loved the little speeches Flint would give when travelling between stations, was not expecting that level of quality from something I assumed was a throwaway budget title. Great Hard Acid/Big Beat soundtrack, varied missions that were challenging but not bullshit, they even did a ton of research on how the ocean functions, sprinkling it throughout the game and tossing in a glossary in the manual. Real shame about the voice acting being so terrible though, at least Flint sounded good, the inability to pitch your ship more than 90 degrees up and down was a strange choice as well, don't know why they did that, it only made some fights more awkward than they should have been.

Sequel was also fun but the writing and story took a nosedive, the soundtrack wasn't as good either. Shame we never got a third game since the ending of 2 set up the protagonists of both games to get into conflict with each other.

>>14424739

thanks for reminding me anon

Pirate it or wait for a sale if you are so unsure. Its a genuinly good game. The ingame explanation for the lack of fire arms is much better than the bullshit virtue signaling from the one of the devs. Some asshole got cabin fever and went on a killing spree weeks after he and colleagues have crash landed and your corporate overlords don't like the liability that come with such incidents. So no fire arms for you

>>14426221

There won't be a sequel to the 2nd one though.

>>14424791

>the only person who gets fucked by these gun restrictions are good guys

Is burgerland seriously a wild west saloon where the "good guys" will shoot back at the bad guys if they start trouble? What if someone sees the good guys shooting back and thinks they're the bad guys?

>>14426580

>"good guys" will shoot back at the bad guys if they start trouble?

Yes, it turns out the fear of getting shot is a good detriment to crime.

>>14426580

Are you fucking retarded, mate? OF COURSE WE SHOOT BAD GUYS. It’s how problems are SOLVED. You think that waiting for the police will save your life?

>>14425673

Oh, is that kike still drawing? This really seems out of place with the rest of his stuff.

It's definitely worth a pirate. I would have said it was worth a buy before the devs revealed themselves to be absolute cucks.

>>14424791

They've manipulated the conversation in a way that makes them correct. This is how the jews operate. Technically the claim that banning or severely limiting peoples ability to get guns would very likely lower the amount of school shooting incidents.

The problem with framing the conversation like this is that it ignores 99% of gun usage for the 1% of situations. And because it's children being used as pawns it works. It's very hard for someone to say "I'm willing to let children die to save the lives of millions of potential victims that could result from implementing gun control". It doesn't matter if the quantity of children dying is completely insignificant when you approach the numbers from an honest angle. People can compare America to other countries using a very specific and sensationalized statistic. So I can say that America has more school shootings than Mexico, and this makes it seem like Mexico cares more about their children than Americans.

Things are never as simple as you might think. Dishonest statements can still technically be correct. You must find the root of their line of thinking to truly be able to refute it. With jews you can never attack their arguments at face value. There is always a spin to it. But never stoop to their level. Honesty is your best weapon. I mean true honesty, not retarded controlled opposition shit like "w-well just give every teacher a shotgun lol".

Are there any games similar to this one?

>>14426770

>don't do X or I'll shoot you

<does X

<gets shot

subnautica is a very lacking game that's had the starbound treatment of "well we'll put a story line in and that should mask the lack of gameplay long enough for people to get suckered into it and yeah lock the tech line alone the story line so that you'll have to run into it and partake" another thing about the story placed in like which really annoys me is that it means this isn't your world anymore and it isn't your struggle to over come as you're just coping other peoples methods of surviving who were there before you. the only interesting aspect of the game was the terraforming which they removed out right because it wouldn't work on consoles well so the core gameplay consists of diving up and down all the time because your oxygen supply lasts shorter then holding your breath irl till you get the best tank which by that point you'd have your depth meter on your moth to it's highest level and maybe the cyclone as well. not to mention the amount of grinding resources of which there's no way to automate other then building a ton of grav gens and letting them free but even then you never have enough of anything if you don't spend a silly amount of time getting 10x of the base mets. other issues with the game is you're limited in what you can eat so if you manage to kill anything bigger then you are then it just rag dolls into the deep.

>>14426792

the officer didn't say don't do X he demanded the guy to keep his arms out and then crawl towards him which of the intention of it being "don't put your arms behind you what so ever" even though at the point of which the officer shot the guy he could see the guys back which the guy tried to pull up his pants that he managed to do so the cop reacted slow and shot him dead even though he saw exactly what the guy did

>>14426840

> if you manage to kill anything bigger then you are then it just rag dolls into the deep.

As a Monster Hunter player this one really disappointed me. No rare materials or resources or anything at all to be gained by killing the large beasties.

>>14424979

there is absolutely nothing wrong with waiting several years after games come out to give the developers a chance to finish it before playing it.

>>14426863

There absolutely is. If it WAS early access and is NOW "released" then that means it's done. It should be judged at time of release. Patches and bugfixes and DLC are the equivalent of revisionist history when reviewing games, and the game should always be stuck with its original reputation at release time. If they improved it, add a fucking footnote with an updated opinion.

>>14426855

which is annoying because they do interesting things that could be used

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned what an unpolished, buggy shitpile the game still is even in its so called finished state. Load times are still 3 to 6 MINUTES long, my seamoth was once trapped inside a piece of starship wreckage that popped into existence around me because pop in is just that fucking atrocious, and a leviathan once took my seamonth and placed it inside a solid wall where I couldn't get it back. This is, of course, aside from the game's biggest issue of gating content in an open world game through hiding plans at depths just beyond what you can initially make.

>>14426979

>myeeeeeeehhhhhhhh they lock stuff behind progress tiers

What would be the point of getting the cyclops when you're still in the noob shallows fishing by hand? The game IS exploration and collecting stuff to build better stuff. You're asking to skip the meat of the game to get to the end faster. You're like the crybullies who want to put "skip gameplay" buttons into RPGs so they can experience the story.

>>14427002

I think he's saying that an open world game should allow you to extensively sequence break if you know what you are doing and are willing to take the risks.

>>14426973

Is the Switch version okay?

>>14427024

You can skip the seamoth by free-diving with the biggest air tank and a rebreather, and then using that emergency float thing to rise up for air just before you black out. It'll take a fucking long time though. He's asking for them to put everything you could possibly need to collect within the 100m depth line, so you don't need to construct better equipment or vehicles to collect it. Because the "end" of the game is over a thousand meters deep and there's only one vehicle that can go down there, and he wants THAT vehicle sooner than the game's logic (and real logic) allows.

Dev is cuck of the year 2018 but the game is really good.

Spend absolutely no money on it because the sound design is 10/10 but they fired the sound designer so they're not getting paid for it. (Also worth mentioning is that they fired the sound designer for holding conservative views and making jokes on twitter).

I'm genuinely looking forward to the expansion pack because I liked the game a lot.

>>14427335

Pop-in is not a result of a shit machine. I run it with everything maxed and shit is popping in all the time. It's just shit optimization/engine limitations. Like how with Skyrim no matter what you do if you try and fuck with the LOD distance you'll completely break the game regardless of how powerful your hardware is.

Nice try though, kike.

>Should I play Subnautica?

No. It's a vapid crafter game set in an unevocative chorescape.

Can I mod this game? What's the point if you can't mod yourself into a girl who gets raped by sharks?

>>14425713

>It genuinely sounds like you pirated an older, much shittier version

I pirated a release that was released on a day after the game got "released"

>You sound like a pseudo speed runner, just wanting to reach the end as fast as possible

What the fuck else is there to do? Play tag with the enemies with rudimentary AI? Scan the 4th reskin of the same fish type? Catch all fish for no reason whatsoever?

>>14428122

The in-game critters have poor sex mod value.

>>14428209

Either way games like this should inherently be designed around moddability. As far as I've seen this doesn't seem to be true. What's the point of a minecraft type game without mods? Why have developers forsaken allowing people to preform free slave labour for them to help sell their games? There must be some reason.

>>14428224

Dunno chum. The fish just swim around like harvestable resources. There is no life cycle of reproduction and predation. It's a very limited game much like the lefty team who made it.

>>14424732

If you have a powerful PC and edit some files so the draw distance isn't broken it's worth a pirate. Otherwise don't bother, it's not technically sound and some design choices are baffling.

>>14428301

This is what happens when you let the kike psyop "meme spacing" meme take root. They actually managed to get retards to think formatting your posts properly so they don't read like walls of text is bad behavior.

Don't call it a grave. It's the future we chose.

>>14428343

It's kinda funny that screencap tries to define meme spacing while being guilty of the worst reddit space. Hitting enter after the post number

>>14428374

Didn't notice that. I can agree on that one being retarded.

>>14428284

OP outed himself as a redditor

Proceeds to "merely pretending"

And now has erased that post because people were calling bullshit

>>14428343

>>14428418

Its pants on head retarded anyways since it complains about widescreen.

Phoneposters should kill themselves.

>>14428434

It's not complaining about widescreen. It's pointing why people tend to indent more often on a widescreen format where it otherwise wouldn't make very much sense on paper in formal writing.

meme spacing fucks with phone posters more than it does people on a widescreen.

>>14428301

I don't really care tbh

>>14428448

>I don't really care tbh

Congratulations on being an insufferable fag.

yeah enjoy getting mad at stupid shit like a teenager

>>14428499

I'm not just calling it a kike psyop. I'm calling it a kike psyop and explaining why the vast majority of times it's applied to posts that are formatted in a perfectly acceptable and logical way.

Psuedo-paragraphs are a practice that has existed since the inception of email. To be fair I did sort of force this conversation out of no where. People really haven't even bitched about meme spacing for awhile now so it's a none issue. I shouldn't have slid this thread.

>>14424787

>one where we are not at the top of the food chain

That's really what the neurosis of the subverted is ultimately about, isn't it? Reducing mankind into a species of prey animal.

>>14424732

I had fun

>>14428536

Look the issue here is that double spacing a normal thing on reddit because how it deals with text on that site. Also it just looks fucking ass on image boards simply because there's no fucking word wrap on image boards, so what looks like a right amount of text for a paragraph in the reply box ends up looking you hit enter after finishing a sentence, maybe two.

>>14428611

I understand the argument. I just think posts like this >>14428536 are easy to read and that posts like >>14428485 are a fucking eye sore.

But like I said, people don't really shit-post and whine about leddit spacing anymore so it's a non-issue. I don't really care if people write walls of text.

>>14424787

Happy that Kingdom Come raped Submaitica.

>>14428733

Another game I have to be patient for. It needs some patches.

>>14428639

>that posts like >>14428485 are a fucking eye sore.

God help you if you ever open a fucking book.

>>14424732

Should you eat shit? Why would you want to support a cancerous SJW developer? Do you know where the fuck you are?

>>14426656

Don't mess with the man who only owns one gun,he probably knows how to use it.

>>14426696

I'm fairly sure they made that just as a "fuck you" to people who wanted guns like the cunts they are.

>>14428701

>still acts like a fag and is provoking a ban

you have to go back

>>14428701

>Krautchan memes.

Shit tier.

>>14429181

>>14429169

read the filename: IDGAF

>>14424732

ITS TOTALLY NOT AN UNDERWATER MINECRAFT CLONE

WHAT A VAST DEPTHS ARE THERE TO EXPLORE!

TOO BAD YOU NEED TO EAT AND DRINK EVERY 10 SECONDS FELLOW SOYBOY :^)

BASICALLY WHITES NEED TO DIE

>>14429264

It's ironic because way back they actually used to have terrain modification and mining but removed it because they couldn't make it not buggy and it clashed with their "artistic vision".

>>14425578

You're mixing quotes from 2 completely different people you idiot.

>studio fires staff because of MUH SJW feelings

>protagonist is a brownie muslim/latino/afro with coloured hair

>studio confirms sub2 protagonist will be a stronk imdependamt womyn, and you have.

You shouldn't even pirate it.

>(((Subnautica)))

>>14429345

>theyre different, goyim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hi trannypol

>>14429391

I see you cross posting my man.

>>14429391

>Regular common sense and logic is jewish conspiracy

>2 people = 1 person

>>14427361

The grass/moss has some pop-in, this is true. But

>trapped inside a piece of starship wreckage that popped into existence around me

is completely the fault of shit hardware, goy.

>>14426283

>there won't be a sequel

so play the prequel

>>14430124

His pc was probably underpowered but that doesnt change that this game is unoptimized garbage.

>>14428567

had?

I don't give a shit about people pirating games but I don't get /v/'s cavlieerness with stooping to the same "The dev has politics I disagree with, BOYCOTT/PIRATE THE GAME!!!" mindset that SJW's have.

Don't stoop to their level.

>>14434079

>paying people that hate you

classic cuck

you don't belong here goy

>>14433316

I reached the end.

I can go into detail if you want.

>>14434079

>Dev's politics stopped them from adding things to the game

In this case in particular, they ignored a poll where people voted in favor of bugfixes vs "being able to play as a woman", just to virtual signal to SJWs and gain good goy points

So yeah, boycotting a product that it's makers refuse to fix/improve just to try to gain PR is more than justifiable

Have a bit of common sense before you try to act all high horsey

>>14434079

>you can buy a hotdog from a man who wants you to die, who wants to see your daughters raped, and who spits on everything you believe in

>or you can go over to joe's for the night and crack a beer

>>14434401

There's still no decent straight lewds sadly.

>>14434187

>take my rights away?

you still have a right to be a faggot

>>14434690

My point still stands.

>>14434561

Yeah, and the devs of this game are the last ones who will threaten that.

Reminder the sound design is the best part of the game, and they fired their sound designer for having incorrect thoughts.

>>14434791

What did he think?

>>14434079

>wow i don't understand why someone wouldn't want to support his own genocide

>lol i LIKE being dead

>i wish MORE of my people were being exterminated

>this genocide is too slow; it should be sped up

>where's all the raping to death ha ha

>>>/tumblr/

>>14429541

>Regular common sense and logic is jewish conspiracy

The destruction of it is.

>>14434187

>>14434092

>>14434241

Being unable to separate the creator from their work and throwing a fit and wanting to put them out of business just because you think they are bad people is half of what makes SJW's so cancerous

>Why should I fund people who actively want to take my rights away?

>you can buy a hotdog from a man who wants you to die, who wants to see your daughters raped, and who spits on everything you believe in…or you can go over to joe's for the night and crack a beer

I've unironically seen the exact same arguement as the first one here from SJW's defending boycotting and doxxing/trying to get people fired, and i've seen basically the same shit as the second as well from them. Again, I don't give a shit if you buy or pirate games, you just need to make sure you aren't becoming the same cancer they are, just from another side of the political spectrum

>>14434213

>In this case in particular, they ignored a poll where people voted in favor of bugfixes vs "being able to play as a woman", just to virtual signal to SJWs and gain good goy points

I wasn't aware of that, I thought this was "just" (I put it in quotes because it's deplorable and isn't just a miinor thing) about them firing that employee who made "offensive" jokes and was slightly right leaning.

That's a much better reason.

>>14435334

Boycotts are one of the most powerful ways to change behavior.

I stand 100% behind everyone, who boycotts the game for political reasons.

The 21th Century will be the century of the Phoenix. The Revival of old western values and the systematic dismantlement of cultural marxism. It's either that or degenerating even further.

>>14434791

eh nothing amazing blew me away sound wise, infact alot of the music out right annoys me

>>14435334

>Being unable to separate the creator from their work

They literally hate your existence and want you to be unemployable.

Are you into findom because you sound like the ideal paypig.

>boycotting is evil because muh SJW

they also drink water, you don't drink water do you?

Your tactics are old schlomo, nobody is going to fall for them.

>>14435334

>Being unable to separate the creator from their work and throwing a fit and wanting to put them out of business just because you think they are bad people is half of what makes SJW's so cancerous

But anon, that's what they did by firing an employee just because of their political views

See? Karma at work

Fuck off already

>>14435334

>Being unable to separate the creator from their work and throwing a fit and wanting to put them out of business just because you think they are bad people is half of what makes SJW's so cancerous

Yeah, we're the bad guys because the Marxists go out their way to make sure we can't separate the creator from his work, and make extra sure to inject their politics in everything they touch. Take your MUH PR MUH ETHICS and fuck off already.

>>14434079

We don't care about SJWs sharing the same mindset because it doesn't matter whether they boycott a game or not; They wouldn't buy it anyways.

What gives us a headache is how much they screech about it, which is how they get their way most of the time. Incessant screeching even when you try to annoy it. Comparatively, look at how /v/ usually reacts to a game they've "boycotted". Zero discussion with a "fuck off with that shit" if someone brings it up, or possibly discussion into the inherent flaws of it.

>>14435334

Let me guess, your enemies win when you kill them?

It's boycotting a corporation with shit business practices and the way they treat their employees. paying them money reinforces that behavior.

They used a petty excuse to rid themselves of someone who wasn't in line enough for the "future diversification" of the company. Flayra probably leaked those tweets himself to create the shitstorm that lead to the dismissal.

You want some standards in the industry, you don't give money to arseholes like that.

>>14435453

I don't see how threads like this are any better then the threads you see screencaps of of SJW's calling Kingdom Come shit because it has no black people or whatever: Fundamentally, both aren't about the game and are just people whining.

What make SJW's truly cancerous, to me, is that they are willing to do anything to further their end goals, be it denying science, blackmail, doxxing people, harrassment, and are utterly hypocritical about it: They whine and make it out like they are being abused when it happens to them

>>14435374

>They literally hate your existence and want you to be unemployable.

Again, this is the same argument they use.

>>14435383

>>14435393

Exactly, so why would you stoop to their fucking level? Even if you want to use the argument that they are so dangerous you can't afford to not try to stamp them out (which is, again, their exact same logic), that's not going to work because as shitty as it is, that's just going to lead to endless escalation where you have two extreme groups on both sides using the same tactics, constantly antagoizing the otther, and people in he middle being caught in the crossfire.

Also, contrary to what >>14435355 suggests, it's not going to be a tossup: if any one side wins, it's going to be the SJW's because they have the entrenched advantage in the media and social media. Like it or not, they have more people and more influence.

The only way you can effectively win is by not using their dumbass tactics, which makes SJW's look worse and stupid to everybody else who is sane every time SJW's do dumb shit: The general public at large rightfully thinks colleges have gone full retard because they see articl;es about them protesting anybody who they disagree with and flipping out. Plus, SJW's eat and devour themselves when you leave them alone: They bitch at each other for not being woke enough. By contrast, any timee you use the same tactics against the, they can use the media to twist it around like we are actually the bad guys with MUH SOGGY KNEEs.

From what I can see, >>14435462 holds true here.

>>14435499

>don't be like them

>let them do what they want

>you wouldn't want to be called bad words, right?

Cuck.

>>14435499

>Fundamentally, both aren't about the game and are just people whining

Bullshit. There's plenty of discussion about the game. At least, in the first half there was. Then /pol/ kind of assimilated the thread's corpse. If we're talking about /pol/ then I'll agree that they're both shit we'd be better off without.

SJWs are probably best compared to a child throwing a tantrum and then acting smug when they get their way. /v/'s tirades are actual arguments, even if they devolve into shit slinging or "everyone's a jew and a cuck except me" eventually.

>>14435334

>I've unironically seen the exact same arguement as the first one here from SJW's defending boycotting and doxxing/trying to get people fired, and i've seen basically the same shit as the second as well from them. Again, I don't give a shit if you buy or pirate games, you just need to make sure you aren't becoming the same cancer they are, just from another side of the political spectrum

This is a culture war, it's been a culture war for decades. We're losing. In warfare if you refuse to adopt your enemies superior tactics and technology you lose.

You know what happened to those who refused to adapt when gunpowder weaponry was introduced and kept to their conventional armaments? They fucking lost.

@14435499

>Also, contrary to what >>14435355 (You) suggests, it's not going to be a tossup: if any one side wins, it's going to be the SJW's because they have the entrenched advantage in the media and social media. Like it or not, they have more people and more influence.

This alone proves that anons should ignore that blackpilling faggot.

>>14434690

seriously who makes this shit. like who sits down and says. You know what, i'm going to draw some lewd subnautica shit today. then they do. do you think they do a couple different version and go…. no no not that one… then 20 minutes later go ya thats it! Now i will share my vision with the world.

Who are these people?

>>14435499

Take your head out of your ass and listen:

The industry is dying because SJW are crying attention whores and are doing more noise than us.

Keeping on being silent is what has driven us here.

They were the only ones voicing their opinions, so companies really believed that they represented the majority of the fanbase.

Ignoring them doesn't work, as we've seen all these past years.

It was thanks to GG that they started to show their true face to the world, and the world started to despise them.

And that hurted them so bad even nowadays they are blaming GG for everything.

Nowadays more and more people are starting to raise their voice against SJW, even normalfag tier shit is angry at them.

Like the simpsons, gumball, etc.

If we don't shout, they will drown us again on their retarded wailings.

>>14435499

Equivalent response. If it's good enough for the meek cunts at the NATO, it's good enough for me. You're like "Oh we won't retaliate against a nuclear strike with nuclear weapons because that would make us as bad as them.".

Difference is, we can hop back up on our high horse after kicking them in the dirt while they will always be the scum sucking worms they are.

>>14435522

>@

This is bait

>>14426580

>guns r only 4 bud gaiz

This is what europeans actually believe

yes britfags you are european too

Do you think he got banned or just fled from the thread? I thought we had some totally airtight counterarguments coming our way.

In any case in regards to the OP, yes, play it, but don't buy it. I bought it a long time ago when it was in development because back then, there was no pozz or even signs of it, and they were devs who made NS2 (which is still a great fucking team FPS/RTS with a ridiculous learning curve and skill ceiling). The game came out the way I expected it which is fine, but the developer progressivism got exponentially worse with time, like cancer.

So yes it's worth a pirate, especially now that it's actually done.

>>14435499

i see this faggot everywhere from /v/ to /k/, and he always gets BTFO

>>14435758

>Do you think he got banned or just fled from the thread? I thought we had some totally airtight counterarguments coming our way.

His goal was the seed of "Don't stoop to their level, that's bad!" into the lurkers heads. He succeeded. If he were to continue that seed would be squashed by all of his counterarguments being BTFO.

In all honestly this post is an attempt to remove that seed from any lurkers who might still have it.

>>14435613

He doesn't deserve a (you)

>>14434690

>image 2-4

That artist is fucking gross, don't post his shit.

He's major league into scat, farting and hyper.

>>14436777 Yup,they're crap.

>>14436715

How is that conservative? Isn't that just common sense?

>>14435499

Drown yourself in semen, obvious paid shill.

>>14437967

>Isn’t that just common sense

Congratulations; you just defined fascism.

>>14424732

Game is excellent for early access. A lot of people shit on it because the devs are pretty political, but it's definitely worth a pirate. It looks gorgeous and can be very spooky.

>>14435536

>faggot who is afraid of a video game calling someone else a weakling

>>14438087

>Game is excellent for early access.

What did he (you) mean by this?

>>14437990

It just is weird to see people (especially Americans) to call themselves Civic Nationalists for only wanting Immigration to happen legally.

I hope no European fell for the Civic Nationalist meme yet. At least here it's intrinsically recognized that Nationalists has a very clear ethnic component to it, even if they don't double down on that to be 100% ethnically pure.

>>14438218

Don't undersell yourself. The USA for most of its history only recongized white men as potential citizens.

I am not sure, if it's possible that you can go back to that. The Alt-Right in America has a different approach to that. They want a seperate identity from just being a "bible-swearing, god-loving, hard-working Muerican" like Boomer Conservatives & Civil Nationalists want.

>>14435913

>to /k/

I thought I recognized this faggot's way of typing from somewhere.

>>14438322

>south of the equator

>white

Ok armando

>>14438322

Take your kike meme and get out, please.

>>14438950

It's a yid. What do you expect?

>>14438985

He's persian.

>>14434401

>If you wait a year or ten, and the manufacturer produced a better version of the same car

You're a fucking moron. A different model year of car is a new product. A video game with patches is the same product, with post-release edits. The analogy you're looking for is when car manufacturers issue recalls to fix problems with the car post-release. THAT is the equivalent of a patch. And magazines like Consumer Reports Car Guide take recalls into account when rating the cars years later, because if someone were to purchase the car 5 years after release, the recalls are still a requirement for it to run properly.

>>14428122

I actually really want this now.

>>14439046

Look at the FST of all whites, everywhere. Then compare whites, as a whole, to jews based on FST. Then look at the FST between whites and all the various dindu tribes. Then the asians. Then the indioes. You can even compare indioes and asians. Hell, for a laugh, compare the FSTs of the white countries to the FST of all whites vs australoids.

Then come back and try to tell us whites aren't a race, kike.

>>14438950

Just noticed this.

>>14438171

>What did he (you) mean by this?

I meant that despite early access titles usually being shit, this game defies that stigma. Was it not clear?

>>14439113

>can't respond to the argument

>can't refute what was said

>can't even substantiate his own claims

>you're not white because i say so!

This is literally the best job that paid shills can do, ladies and gentlemen.

That game looks like a piece of shit. You might as well download/pirate it since you're a piece of shit with shit taste for even considering this shit snorefest.

asshole.

>>14438322

Did you read your own constitution, burger-kun?

Untill the Immigration Act of your country was dropped under false pretenses last century, it still only allowed immigration from white countries.

>>14439709

>Anyone could immigrate, the restriction was on citizenry

Well, didn't that work out well for you?

>>14438950

it's just a book

>>14425146

Technically true when you start being a fucking nigger, conflating gang banging nonsense that happens in shitty city schools as "shootings".

If a gun goes off at school, it's a "school shooting" regardless of how many die.

It's like how they use suicides to pad the numbers.

The later "mass shootings" shit is complete rot, though.

>>14429264

Why do people complain so much about hunger mechanics? I think they are generally a good thing in the sorts of games that use them (generally RPGs and survival), they may not add a lot to the game, but every little bit helps

As far as subnautica goes, you need roughly 2 bottles of water and one reasonably filling food item per in-game day. That's a pretty realistic pacing.

>>14439941

WE WANT TO SHOOT THE FISH

>>14439994

You realize that normal guns wouldn't work underwater anyway. The developers are total faggots for the reasons they gave, but all they had to do was make an excuse for realism and it would have been over.

>>14439994

I WANT TO FUCK THE FISH!

>>14440162

I thought this would be obvious, but I do NOT mean that guns don't fire. They still "work", but not very well. The problem is that the bullets don't travel very far and lose most of their energy within 10 feet. Given that most of the large fish are tougher than humans anyway, you wouldn't be able to hurt them with any kind of conventional firearm.

>>14440162

>>14440173

It doesn't even need a deep lore reason, they already hand-waved the lack of lethal weapons with that nanny-state allusion in the knife description. They could have just said "it would take the suspense away if you can just kill everything", which it would. But instead they had to shill for their bullshit ideology and push politics into it.

>>14440162

My guess is that one of the devs did it for a sensible reason like you mentioned, then a SJW member of the team hijacked that shit and made it political to show those fucking alt-righters.

>>14440188

This. The political lines in the game turn it from a logical gameplay decision to liberal "fuck you if you aren't a vegan" bullshit.

>>14440188

Except it's Flyra spouting the bullshit. He's basically the owner

>>14440326

Flayra*

>>14439218

>I was blown the fuck out

>I was scientifically proven wrong

>I have literally no refutation or rebuttal in any capacity

>YOU'RE A JEW I WIN NOW!

Reported, leftypol.

>>14440173

Normal guns wouldn't be used for underwater anyway, it's why harpoon guns and spear guns exist. They'd be far easier to "fabricate" than any gunpowder based weapon to begin with and they'd be far superior underwater. No matter which way you slice it, the lack of forceful self defense gets too hand-wavey and dumb, even if it's for some stupid in-universe "there was an incident, we can't risk more" excuse or an out-of-universe "guns don't work underwater lol also there's no blueprint for harpoon guns in the database or something" excuse.

>>14440465

Did that faggot from yesterday up in the thread come back and then delete his post? Or was it someone else

>>14440888

It takes a very heavy speargun to be effective past 10m, and even then it probably wouldn't go 20 unless it was something that had to be mounted on a vehicle. So while they could potentially include something like that it still wouldn't be very useful. What would make more sense are torpedoes. The game already has those, it simply lacks explosive ones.

>>14440985

I think we're talking about different targets here. 10m is plenty of effective range to be used in subnautica, most of the threats you encounter don't even start coming after you until they're within that distance. If you're talking about regular fish and the Stalkers and shark things, harpoons would be fine. You'd need heavier kit once you start worrying about the serious shit like Leviathans and whatnot, in which case yes torpedoes that explode would be best. The point is that in the game, a 10m range is plenty.

>>14424732

If you're gonna play pirate it. I was going to buy it but the devs turned out to be socjus faggots after their audio engineer made non-kosher posts on social media and was fired.

>>14440888

My posts were deleted because he got rectal ragnarok'd and reported me

And then he announced the report, but that's totally kosher because he was whining about niggers and kikes in a video game thread and that's totally okay

>>14440162

They could have given us some future energy gun or atleast a crossbow/speargun, things that people hunt with right now

If they banned basic fishing spearguns because some gayer shot up some planet nigs in the future that's fuckin stupid

>>14440188

Or, you know, they could build the game with weapons in mind. The actual game play in Subnigica is overly simple and shallow anyway.

>>14445190

I would disagree with that. Dev's retarded gun politics aside, I feel the only things that set Subnautica apart from every other "crafting/survival" game are the setting and the tension. The setting is becoming less unique by the year, and tooling the game around combat would have just made it another boring and bog-standard "make weapons to kill monsters to harvest their stuff to make better weapons" affair. The pseudo-horror elements and fear of the huge, mostly-unstoppable monsters are what make it so memorable. The moment you take away the factor of being completely out of your element, you just make it a shinier, underwater version of every lame zombie survival crafting shovelware piece of tripe dumped on steam in the last few years.

>>14445214

>The pseudo-horror elements and fear of the huge, mostly-unstoppable monsters are what make it so memorable

The best way to deal with them right now is to just ignore them and wait until they go away. That wouldn't be a big deal but its also the only way to deal with them.

>>14445223

It's the same in basically every other horror game as well. I'm not saying it's a flawless system, I'm just saying that introducing combat and giving the player tools to eliminate most of the tension is not the right direction to take.

>>14445233

>It's the same in basically every other horror game as well

It isn't.

Subnautica is an "open world survival" crafting shitshow foremost. Even in something like Amnesia where you have even less tools available to you to deal with monsters, the game forces you to engage them. In something like Resident Evil, killing shitty enemies that aren't a threat is something to consider as you will have less resources to use later and hence less room for error.

In Subnautica the way the game is structured, if you are encountering leviathans then you are either going to the wrong way or fucking something up. Every other enemy is relegated to the status of an annoyance as that is the best they can do.

>>14445247

Finding rarer elements, blueprints and fragments, as well as progressing the story all require you to go into several places populated by several different types of leviathans. And that's assuming your average player isn't going to want to explore just for its own sake, which almost all of them will given the type of game it is.

>>14445274

>Finding rarer elements, blueprints and fragments, as well as progressing the story all require you to go into several places populated by several different types of leviathans

None of the leviathans are near anything valuable and have very specific patrol paths that leave story relevant areas out of their path.

The only leviathan you may inevitably face is the one near the final facility which isn't even supposed to be there if you do some lorefagging but still can be easily avoided by just going in the facility itself.

>>14445294

But most players won't know that. If you take things like that into account, you're designing the game around people who have already played it to hell and back since the beta, or have all the guides and maps right next to them at all times. Of course the enemies are trivial once you know everything about them and exactly where to go, that's par for the course. Should they add more in, or make them less predictable? Absolutely. But that is completely irrelevant to my original point of adding in weapons and ways to kill them.

>>14445294

The Leviathans are even less dangerous than the "annoying at best" smaller creatures. They can't even one-shot the seamoth, and the seaglide can dodge right past them when they attack. After they attack they fuck off and leave you alone for a good 30+ seconds and only attack again if you stay in the area. They'll chase the cyclops, but they won't attack it at all if it's powered down. You can park your Cyclops right in front of the main facility in the lava zone right in the middle of the pack of sea dragons there and they won't touch it. Of course sea dragons are ironically the least-dangerous leviathan type because their fire usually doesn't do anything at all and they rarely melee.

>>14445317

>But most players won't know that

The game is literally designed that way. Its like saying most players who play mario won't know how to jump.

The game uses the leviathans as a mark of areas where you aren't supposed to go. They are nothing but glorified roadblocks. Most human beings who play this would realize that by the time they encounter the first leviathan as the game is very explicit in telling you that you don't have any other options available to you.

>>14445331

Okay, even if I concede your point and admit I might be underestimating first-timers, what does that have to do in regards to arming the players or not?

I'm already in agreement they need to find a way to vary the danger and make things less predictable, but my original point was just that adding weapons is the wrong direction to take.

>>14445339

If the game had weapons it would be designed around you using those weapons. Leviathans wouldn't be just roadblocks then because there would be an expectation of the player being able to attack them. You could even add more complex behaviors to the sea life where they become more aggressive if you attack them so attacking every single thing wouldn't be the best idea.

>>14445353

That would deflate tension, not add to it. And would require more work from the current design. Make them more dangerous and less predictable, making stealth more mandatory, making areas more dangerous (or become more dangerous as the player progresses, maybe have the leviathans follow you for longer and linger more).

As I said, if you can just kill things it becomes less of a horror experience, not more of one. That's why people consider the fixed camera Resident Evil games more part of the survival horror genre than 4 onwards: killing things is a far less viable option. And even better horror games than those simply make it nearly (or actually) impossible, like the Penumbra series or Alien: Isolation.

>>14445361

>That would deflate tension

You mean the tension that doesn't exist in the first place?

>Make them more dangerous and less predictable, making stealth more mandatory

using the nonexistent stealth mechanics?

Enemies can literally detect you from behind walls.

>if you can just kill things it becomes less of a horror experience, not more of one

You are retarded if you think so. You can kill every single enemy in all Resident Evil games even on the hardest difficulty.

Theres a reason why Amnesia 1 is scarier than Machine for Pigs and it has nothing to do with not being able to kill enemies.

>>14445361

Also both Penumbra and Alien Isolations have real weapons. Both of those games reinforce my point while undermining yours. Did you even think before posting?

>>14445371

I'm proposing a way to add it in, not dump it entirely. And there is a tension, before you learn how to avoid things.

There are mechanics, it's entirely based around sound.

Combat doesn't make shit scarier. Maybe you screech and recoil at every combat encounter, but for me the moment I know I have a chance to kill my enemy, the tension disappears because I just kill it and it's gone. I don't know how you have it so ass-backwards that you think something is suddenly scarier when it's less of a threat to you.

>>14445378

Penumbra Overture is the only one with weapons, and the combat was so clunky it was nearly impossible to deal with more than one enemy at a time. And even then, if you panicked or were caught off guard you would still probably die. And Alien: Isolation doesn't let you kill the Alien. You can only scare it off briefly, and even that doesn't work forever. Maybe you should jog your memory a bit before you start pretending to understand game design.

>>14445361

>>14445371

>>14445353

I think that if they had guns they could afford to make the aliens more aggressive and dangerous. As they are they are too toothless for any sort of "horror" to work. Without guns, they need to be somewhat toothless because they don't want to block off any areas to actual exploration. You can't populate an area with enemies who absolutely will kill you unless you give the player some way to get past it later.

>>14445385

>And Alien: Isolation doesn't let you kill the Alien. You can only scare it off briefly

Its almost like there is more than a single way to interact with the threat that isn't just hiding and ignoring it

who woulda thunk it

You clearly are too stupid to even worth these (you)s

>>14445396

You mean like the torpedoes that are already in the game, are non-lethal, and are functionally identical to the flame thrower vs. the alien?

What's the matter, pal? You getting a bit frustrated? It's okay, I know discussion is hard. Go take a breather, have some warm milk.

>>14445400

>You mean like the torpedoes that are already in the game, are non-lethal, and are functionally identical to the flame thrower vs. the alien

They do nothing. I know you haven't used them because if you did you wouldn't have brought it up.

Ever wondered why you finished the entire game without even using those weapons? Do you have a shred of introspection remaining in your brain?

>>14445410

>Its almost like there is more than a single way to interact with the threat that isn't just hiding and ignoring it

<There is another way to interact with them

>I never used it

Just because an option isn't currently the most optimal, does not mean it doesn't exist. Surely there are ways to better balance them, and the leviathans, than just stripping away any semblance of horror in exchange for a bog-standard monster shooting game.

>>14445420

>>I never used it

I said you have never used it you retarded mongoloid. Good job reinforcing it.

Try actually reading next time.

>>14445425

Clearly you didn't either if your opinion of them is so low. I'm not saying they're well-implemented, I'm just saying they're there. It's easier to tweak their effect to be better and useful than to just rework the entire game. Your solution to all these balance problems seems to be throw the baby out with the bath water and make a vastly different game than the one we already have. The simplest solution is always the best one, and in this case balancing it to work better with stealth (and, if need-be, making the torpedoes effective against the larger enemies) is the simplest one, and the one I hope the developer takes if they've any plans to actually rebalance it at all.

>>14445436

>Clearly you didn't either if your opinion of them

>if you hate something you didn't use it

what kind of mental gymnastics did you go through to type that out?

>>14445445

"Never" is a turn of phrase, an exaggeration. We've both obviously tried it, and we both know how ineffectual they are against leviathans. This is irrelevant to the discussion at hand anyway, and I suspect from my need to re-iterate my points several times that you and I are never going to see eye-to-eye. I made my case. I suggest that if you're looking for a more combat-oriented experience, you look for a different game. Gameplay reasons aside, the dev is obviously not going to add weapons. We can hope they will balance the stealth better and make the AI a bit more dangerous, though.

>>14445466

You have already moved your goalposts from "there should be no weapons" to "existing weapons need to be balanced better"

You can't hide your stupidity behind words. Did you buy this turd at full price or something?

>>14445466

LMAO you are retarded.

>>14445478

I never said "there should be no weapons", I said that being able to kill the monsters would be counter to the design philosophy and a step away from where I feel they should be taking it.

>>14445512

>>I never said "there should be no weapons",

>>14445233

>I'm just saying that introducing combat and giving the player tools to eliminate most of the tension is not the right direction to take.

Are you a jew or just a woman?

>>14445517

Yes, those are both things I said. Non-lethal deterrents to allow you to escape monsters is not combat, that's an escape mechanism. An "out" if you get caught while sneaking about (which, hypothetically, would be more necessary should they improve the balance).

>>14445512

>to the design philosophy

But you kill other fishes by ramming into them with your submarine

You also kill alien fishes with knife or cooking them

This is an inconsistency with their "pacifist" views/politics, don't you think?

Also on the mother ship you can see signs of the cafeteria showing "bbq" and other animal products being served, so they still kill and farm animals like us.

The "no guns" policy is bullshit and doesn't hold itself: You can hunt defenseless fauna but can't harm bigger prey because of devs feelings?

>>14445539

I never once defended their politics, I think it's fucking retarded. I'm all for excluding lethal weaponry for gameplay reasons, but they're just virtue signalling. I'm with you 100% in regards to them giving a stupid reason for excluding guns.

Also, I said "monsters" as to differentiate the lethal threats toward the player and the resources (i.e., the fish you cook and eat). Obviously you kill and eat the little fish, but they also can never harm you. But likewise, all of the dangerous fauna serve no resource purpose towards the player (except the gas pods, but those are hardly essential).

>>14445539

>>14445555

I should also clarify: I said "design philosophy" because I don't actually believe their true intentions for excluding lethal defense was ever to do with the "muh guns are murder" reason. It's quite obvious from the studio's other games that they're perfectly alright with including guns and killing of your enemies, and as you said: the player kills and eats fish all the time. I meant a "design philosophy" in terms of, what I believe to be, their goal of creating a tension by leaving the player relatively defenseless against the larger enemies.

>>14445555

CHECKED

okay, i understand your point now