891161 No.14420056
Are there any online multiplayer FPS games that AREN'T
>Riddld with loot boxes
>Currently in death throes
>"""Free to Play"""
>Unpopulated
>"""CLASS BASED"""
image obviously not related
bcb712 No.14420065
R6 Siege? It's got lootboxes but they are pretty irrelevant.
f89497 No.14420074
>>14420056
Halo Online. Though, I don't know what the player count is like these days.
cac609 No.14420080
Does CS:GO have loot boxes? I forget tbh
bcb712 No.14420083
>>14420080
Yes, but cosmetic only and all of the cosmetics are ugly as sin.
fc29f8 No.14420084
>>14420065
You need to go through uplay for it, same shit with Tittyfall2 and origin.
98a62b No.14420087
>Blacklight Retribution is fucking dead
8085ad No.14420099
Why the fuck are you playing multiplayer games released after 2006?
492e66 No.14420102
Yes, and it's a good thing. The closer we come to the death of video games as a medium, the better.
3b12bc No.14420123
Urban Terror, just go for it.
bba7db No.14420129
>>14420118
so that vidya can be reborn better and stronger
492e66 No.14420131
>>14420118
Video games are shit, I say this as someone who has wasted their life playing video games. I'm not even Quentin-posting, video games are bad for your mental wellbeing.
98a62b No.14420141
1eee41 No.14420143
Only older titles and mods can keep it afloat.
>>14420102
You are right. Its all converging to mobile-style system, pay to play microtransactions scamfests with no escape.
67c99e No.14420206
a89bed No.14420221
>>14420065
Big siege fan here, the lootboxes luckily are purely cosmetic and the cosmetics suck so no one buys them, but the game is on deaths door because ubi realized it was doing well and had to start meddling with it. next week they're doing a limited time PVE event and discussing having word-bans in the chat and adding pick-and-ban systems. It had a good run for awhile
64275a No.14420223
>>14420221
I don't think you can buy them with money.
0020bd No.14420235
>>14420056
Given that multiplayer FPS games haven't been getting any better since 2006 why would there be any reason for new ones to have come out since 2006?
a89bed No.14420240
>>14420223
in-game currency, other items can be bought with real currency through a very jewish exchange system, all cosmetic though and all ugly save for a handful.
1e6874 No.14420250
4f7434 No.14420255
>>14420056
Can we talk about the death of loadouts in FPS games? Alot of shooters coming out now release with set classes with set weapons.
I blame the gaming community since all loadouts ever did was homogenize games if you werent using this gun/setup you are kinda fucked.
076470 No.14420261
>>14420056
>posts Dirty Bomb
>whines about dead games
What did he meme by this?
4f7434 No.14420263
>>14420056
What the fuck are you talking about? That image is completely 100% related to everything you said . I am honestly amazed Dirty Bomb is still going
64275a No.14420269
>>14420255
CoD and BF still sell millions, and they all have loadouts. What are you talking about?
4f7434 No.14420288
>>14420056
FPS is not dead but its getting messy. Currently FPS is trying to get back to its "#ROOTS" by going back to World War shit. I fucking hated BF1 and COD WW2 and im even more pissed the next battlefield might be WW2.
Alot of faggots complained about COD going "too futuristic" but Call of duty Black Ops 3 in my opinion was a pretty good shooter and I love the jet pack mechanics. Then you got Titanfall 2 which took the gameplay of Black ops 3 and made it even better. However the with the FPS community being the change hatting dew guzzling soyboys that they are hated the wall running and jet packs since it was either fast or to complicated for them.
16e315 No.14420762
91fa1c No.14420774
Last call to jump ship was after Bad Company 2 came out. That was the last worthwhile FPS.
2bdcdb No.14420858
>>14420056
>image obviously not related
Not related to games that arent all of that, or to games that are all you said? In any case, dirty bomb is good
4f7434 No.14420871
>>14420774
Why do people love that shit so much? Its so Anti-Battlefield buy people praise it so much.
26439d No.14420884
a89bed No.14420914
>>14420877
> productive like reading or leaning art.
>reading
>productive
7f4da5 No.14420923
f26c9c No.14420928
>>14420914
>implying from your readings you can't transpose what you read and write
450c96 No.14420929
>>14420877
>Uses the age old boomer argument that games are a waste of time
>Lists 2 alternatives that are an equal waste of time
41a30a No.14420932
Nope, TF2 killed the genre, Overwatch is just prolonging its death
a89bed No.14420934
>>14420928
this only applies to a certain demographic of readers, most fans of books read fiction which is no more or less productive than video games, movies, or god fucking help you, watching television. Sitting still and staring at a wall is a better use of time than watching television
3f254e No.14420968
>>14420929
>reading
>a waste of time
If you read novels then sure
59d5b5 No.14420972
Doom 1 (with mods)
Halo CE
Unreal Tournament 2K4
Call of Duty 4 and World at War
Cunter-Strike Series (which one is a matter of preference, they all still have relatively-decent player count, CSGO has more modern bullshit but it's still mostly-playable)
Those three games come to mind as being games that don't fit most of those categories, they're older games and their player count isn't amazing but they're certainly not dead either. Pick one of em up and give em a go.
I know Halo 3 would have an amazing player count still to this day if Microsoft had ported it to PC like smart people instead of trying to use it as the trump card to save the dying Xcocks brand like faggots.
59d5b5 No.14420973
04af2b No.14420994
File: 622c243fc8d1794⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 271.62 KB, 850x1106, 425:553, __takagi_original_drawn_by….jpg)
>>14420960
>Do you legitimately believe that reading is as unproductive as playing video games?
Depends on what you're reading, hope it's textbooks because if not, yes, it is entertainment with as much value as video games.
a89bed No.14420996
>>14420960
>Do you understand how fucking ridiculous you sound?
do you realize how ridiculous you sound when you include the act of drawing into an argument regarding how productive reading a book is. Drawing is a separate hobby unless you're directly referring to reading books for the purpose of learning something, and not fiction
41e3f0 No.14420997
>>14420972
>>14420074
Halo 5 would actually meet OP's qualifications.
It's even starts with no classes, it's not as absurdly populated as the older halo games were in their days but it still has many thousands of players. It has loot boxes, but they are for entirely cosmetic shit outsiide of a specific shits and giggles mode.
450c96 No.14421003
>>14420960
<Do you understand how fucking ridiculous you sound?
>Reading 95% filler or fantasy and mindlessly copying theory
>Develops your brain more than having to actively adjust to situations and strategize
>Develops your brain more than having to outsmart other human beings
Although the last one isn't as true anymore since multiplayer has devolved into e-sports garbage where everyone just mindlessly copies the meta.
>>14420968
I'll give you that certain self-help books are good, although they rarely warrant an entire fucking book. Even a book that teaches a skill, like programming, is usually fucking worthless, because you learn more from actually going out and practising, than reading a bloated textbook cover to cover.
423f89 No.14421016
>>14420056
Splatoon is technically not first person, but it's the best shooter out there right now.
6a3287 No.14421020
>>14420932
>Overwatch is just prolonging its death
No Bendoverwatch for you
02139b No.14421029
>>14420866
>not having a trigger that also crushes your middle finger when fired
do you even operate comrade
450c96 No.14421042
>>14421035
>I've been playing video games at a competitive level for over a decade. Reading requires a lot more work than anything I've ever done at a high level in video games.
Before I continue I'm going to assume you copied the meta 100% and didn't develop your own strategies.
>The vast majority of developing strategies and advancing your skills involves doing monotonous tasks over and over again for 9-12 hours a day every single day.
Bingo.
59d5b5 No.14421044
>>14420997
Only problem is Halo 5 is Xcocks-only, so you have to pay to play online. Halo 5 Forge is a gimped version that doesn't include the campaign and most of the multiplayer modes (as far as I'm aware).
04af2b No.14421049
>>14421035
>It really doesn't matter what you're reading for the most part. Reading is still in infinitely more interactive task than playing 99% of video games is.
>reading rehash novel of a rehash novel
>more productive than playing a rehash game of a rehash game
At least there isn't a shadow of a doubt you're retarded.
64275a No.14421062
>>14421049
>still replying to the quentinfaggot
7f4da5 No.14421099
>>14421035
You ever realized that normies gobble up the lowest quality product possible, of any kind of medium, whether it may be a book or video game?
They elate over COD, 50 shades of grey and shit glued to a wall and call it art.
It doesn't matter what kind of free time chomper you may aim at, you will find shitty representations of that medium.
96df9e No.14421140
>>14420065
>>14420083
Cosmetic or not Lootboxes are a cancer upon games and ruin everything they touch. TF2 used to get great content updates before it had lootshit. Developers spend more time making shitty lootboxes than making a good game.
41d0f9 No.14421178
>>14420221
>game comes out
>public doesn't really give a shit which makes the publisher not give a shit
>dev team behind the game cares for it and starts to shape it into something decent
>meanwhile all of the publisher's other projects turn out like shit
>publisher notices previously ignored game is doing good
>starts meddling with it
>it goes to shit
honestly if siege isn't the perfect example of what's wrong with what vydia's become i don't know what is
450c96 No.14421191
>>14421127
>Thinks competitive anything isn't just mindless metagaming and muscle memory
>Grinding away at arena/tactical shooters to develop a totally useless skill
>Not just dropping into a game when it's fresh on the market, when nobody has any clue how any of the mechanics work, when the devs haven't sterilized the fuck out of it with patch magic, and seeing what kinds of crazy shit you can come up with
64275a No.14421207
77b4d2 No.14421285
>>14420065
>>14420221
>>14420223
>>14420240
>>14421221
>Garbage ASSFAGGOTS tacticool FPS full of balance and netcode issues with Zombies now
>Russian scam full of P2W
This is some blatant shilling
Then again this board is so chock full of retards nowadays I don't even know anymore.
We have niggers recommending Halo and no Middair.
6d998e No.14421306
>>14420056
>The FPS genre is dead.
Wrong.
a89bed No.14421308
>>14421178
it had a really rough release too that they managed to start fixing up and people were getting interested through free weekends. It's how i started playing it around halfway through year 1 while things were still improving. Post operation health has been a clusterfuck
64275a No.14421314
>>14421285
How dare people like a video game that isn't another shitty attempt at an arena shooter that will be dead on arrival.
492e66 No.14421326
>>14421306
>shit Serious Sam-knockoff
>ha ha funni redneck game
>borderlands-tier shit game
You're doing this on purpose, aren't you?
77b4d2 No.14421334
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14421314
Kill yourself kike
ea3725 No.14421336
91fa1c No.14421338
>>14420871
Because it was fun.
There were no jets destroying everything and everyone at spawn.
There was no prone, so no gay-ass fucking dolphin diving.
There weren't a billion ways to be killed by something you didn't see.
Weapons actually felt like they packed a punch.
Teamwork actually occurred no matter how many randoms you played with.
Simple rock-paper-scissors design for classes and vehicles worked perfectly, instead of being a convoluted mess like BF3 and everything else that came after it.
Nobody was invincible, not even the best chopper pilots.
Every class was balanced, and a shotgun with slug ammo could counter any camping sniper bush wookie faggot.
Everything could counter everything.
C4 ATV's and Drones.
Everything was destructible.
Dust mechanics allowed for close quarter engagements on any map, even the open wide ones.
Explosions and sound design were the best in the franchise by a wide margin.
If you haven't flung an ATV covered in C4 at a tank, marked someone with a tracer dart and watched a hail of rockets rain down on him or knocked out a helicopter pilot with a smoke grenade launcher, you have yet to experience the game in its entirety. BC2 may have been a spinoff, but it was still a BF game at its core.
And I say all this as someone who's played BF2 years before BC2 came out.
eaf51c No.14421343
>>14421306
Then you should post some examples proving your point.
9577e5 No.14421357
>>14421285
what's P2W about Tarkov? I'm guessing you never played it, because you can go in with an axe, and with some stealth and patience come out with loads of good gear.
You could have made so many other criticisms, but p2w is pants on head
369138 No.14421359
>>14421326
8chan hates everything while people enjoy their new video games and don't sperg out.
Its spergs like you that ruin video games for all of us, not developers.
64275a No.14421360
>>14421334
Great argument for a guy recommending a thirty dollar early access game.
a89bed No.14421361
>>14421285
>half the posts you quoted mention how siege is going to shit
>call it shilling
no one told you to buy the game, maybe a year ago I would say give it a try on a free weekend but now ubi is actively trying to ruin the one decent thing they had going for them. With them trying to implement a god damn instant ban on muh toxic words you would expect the games existing fanbase to plummet but unfortunately a lot of plebbit kids play it and are actually PRAISING the idea of instantly banning people who called them a nigger. I hover over the uninstall button each time they throw out garbage like this but unfortunately there are no half decent shooters on the market that have CQB and destruction mechanics like siege does that make it fun for me.
114502 No.14421364
>>14421326
>shit Serious Sam-knockoff
Doom is serious sam knockoff?
>ha ha funni redneck game
Have you played it, faggot?
>borderlands-tier shit game
Baitest of all three baits.
008a63 No.14421474
>>14421306
>nu doom
Mediocre at best, already been too many threads on it.
>Immortal Redneck
Never heard of it but it says it has a skill tree and roguelike shit so I'll pass.
>Shadow Warrior 2
A worse borderlands with worse scaling that shit all over the decent first game. You'll need to try a bit harder.
203643 No.14421679
>>14421035
>>14420877
>Retards think reading is productive just because the thing you are experiencing is in the form of text
I fucking hate you retards and the rest of the normalfags that think this. I read for at least 3 hours a day but I know it's no more productive than playing vidya.
c6e782 No.14421732
Darkest Hour mod for Red Orhcestra is still alive although I don't like a lot of the shit the literal nu-devs added. Festung Europa now.
644090 No.14421812
>>14421306
You forgot nu-Wolfenstein. It basically saved the FPS genre.
721813 No.14421888
>tfw tribes was fucked utterly and completely by (((Hi-Rez)))
8b2e43 No.14421891
>>14420877
>learning art
Look at all of these hipsters drawing garbage modern art. Truly art for the masses is great.
WRONG
b4b909 No.14421895
>>14420877
>leisure time
>turning it into productive time
I don't think you understand the purpose of leisure time you insipid fuckstain.
adbef4 No.14422679
Can't have your cake and eat it too, faggot. You dumb cunts who don't actually play games only whine about what you don't like instead of playing them. Regardless Battlefield Bad Company 2 to BF4 are still kicking and good games, Rising Storm 2 is currently my favorite multiplayer shooter, Midair is a tribes like FPS-Z currently in early access making big progress probably launching free to play this year in summer although the playerbase is small and Insurgency is also fun and alive.
That is all I have played since the new year.
d18fbd No.14422687
>>14420056
It was dead for like 15 years already, anon
5212d9 No.14422692
>>14422687
This.
Consoles ruined the genre mechanically and opened it up to mouthbreathers, so the developers had to adjust (= dumb everything down) further.
10275d No.14422706
FPS are not dead. Only FPS you think are good are not flourishing. Though we don't live under communism so gamers don't need to get permission of self appointed commissar to choose games.
6068e2 No.14422712
>>14422692
>Consoles ruined the genre mechanically and opened it up to mouthbreathers, so the developers had to adjust (= dumb everything down) further.
Yes, the genre was completely fucked after they released Faceball 2000 on the Super Nintendo
8287b3 No.14422715
>>14422679
The world is a big place. Those games have maybe 1-2 servers with people on them in my country and they have the most no fun settings on them.
8287b3 No.14422721
>>14422706
Compare the most popular games of old with the current popular titles. They don't compare.
What annoys me most is how modern games have removed basically all community aspects.
Whats that you want to host your own servers outside the garden? FUCK YOU!
db34dd No.14422741
>>14421906
>>14421888
>fags that never played Starsiege Tribes and thus think Ascend was ever of any value to the franchise
10275d No.14422748
>>14420235
>better
There is no objective measure that can compare consumer goods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility
Everything is subjective and only way to measure value is indirect via consumers demand. Communists thought that there are objective measure for the value of goods … look where it led them.
10275d No.14422760
>>14422721
>They don't compare.
There is much higher demand for modern games. Therefore they are better. Any other analysis is literally marxism.
>community aspects
What this is even means.
>Whats that you want to host your own servers outside the garden? FUCK YOU!
Pirates BTFO. "Don't steal" says Jesus but you didn't listen. Enjoy wall then.
938f24 No.14422764
>>14422748
>There is no objective measure that can compare consumer goods
>Shitty servers, poor optimization and game mechanics with the depth of a puddle are subjective
Why even post such a shitty post?
Funny you mention commies since they're the ones who engage in that sort of "everything is subjective and therefore meaningless" crap.
7ff4fb No.14422772
>>14422706
Funny, we don't need Communism to create a standard.
27076a No.14422773
8286d2 No.14422785
>>14421359
>people on the internet ruin my day
Turn off the computer.
111bb3 No.14422786
>>14421285
>EFT
>P2W scam
You are exagerating, especially counting the fact you lose everything after you die once
but fuck them for pricing the game like that
8ac755 No.14422803
>>14422764
Not everything is subjective but somethings can definitely be. Taste in food as an obvious example but that's also why there's so many video game genres!
>>14420994
This is discomforting.
3c8d8a No.14422816
>>14420087
It actually got an update recently. Unfortunately they decided to fuck up gear slots, forcing you to fucking double tap the key to switch. Why the fuck they did this I have no idea but I'm going to return to the game as soon as they fix that.
10275d No.14422836
>>14422764
>Funny you mention commies since they're the ones who engage in that sort of "everything is subjective and therefore meaningless" crap.
Big NO. Value theory of communism is objective. The more worker spends time on the product the more value it has. Games A that was made with 20000 of worker's man hours is better than Game B with 10000 hours. Objectively, undeniably better. Try to object this. Pro tip: you can't.
But then comes scheming merchant and says that consumer 1 chooses game A, and consumer 2 chooses game B all for the same price. There is no "better product". Total relativism.
What pass do you choose? Objective truth of communism or subjectivism of capitalism?
938f24 No.14422845
>>14422836
>2000 hours spent on a game that doesnt even work
>1000 hours on a game that works
>2000 hour one is better says you
You're fucking retarded, go be a retard somewhere else.
bc5752 No.14422848
>>14422836
>Something inherently has more value because people worked on it longer
Amazing argument. That must be why mud huts that took hundreds of man hours to make are inherently more valuable than a car made on an assembly line.
7ff4fb No.14422859
>>14422803
So its is subjective and yet a standard is created and followed as rule.
And Chinese will eat eggs boiled in prebuscent piss, people will follow it as long they make a shekel out of it.
938f24 No.14422869
>>14422848
Not to mention it contradicts his retarded "if its popular its objectively valuable/better" as if like or dislike of people isnt subjective in itself.
10275d No.14422872
>>14422848
>>14422845
Now your understand why communism flopped so hard everywhere. But theory is solid.
8ac755 No.14422879
>>14422859
It's more like I eat my bread and you eat your eggs, or you play your shooter I play my platformer.
bc5752 No.14422884
>>14422872
>theory is solid
No, no it isn't. Something isn't more valuable just because it took longer to make. A bag of wheat doesn't become more valuable just because I cut the wheat by hand instead of using a combine.
10275d No.14422892
>>14422869
>as if like or dislike of people isnt subjective in itself.
That is key problem of economic theory how to measure of like or dislike of people that is subjective by the nature. Modern mainstream economic theory solves this problem by refusing to measure it in the absolute terms at all…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginalism
10275d No.14422904
>>14422884
>A bag of wheat doesn't become more valuable just because I cut the wheat by hand instead of using a combine.
But in this case you use accumulated labor of worker who made combine :^) checkmate capitalist
dace31 No.14422919
>>14421285
>Scam full of P2W
The grind you have to do for some things feels like it belongs in a P2W game. But oddly enough, Tarkov isn't P2W.
15e356 No.14422996
>host game server for non-walled-garden, no-lootbox, not class based niche fps game
>have semi-popularity in clients
>people sometimes talk to me as if I develop the game because the first syllable of my alias is the same as one of the developers
>client complains to me about a map on the server and it should be fixed etc
>even though I didn't make it
Was this always a thing or is it just now that people confuse what server admins do?
1a823f No.14423042
>>14421334
also this prices are without tax.
8effc6 No.14423046
Weird tangent here but are there any FPS that fit OP's criteria and ALSO have female character models?
please don't make me explain why I need this
111bb3 No.14423062
>>14422929
How would you incentivize preorders, since you don't have a publisher giving you a salary before you start selling your game?
Also it doesn't seem an huge advantage if you can lose everything after a couple of rounds
f54967 No.14423073
>>14422904
>But in this case you use accumulated labor of worker who made combine
Except the workers were paid their due by the factory and I purchased the combine from the capitalist who paid the factory who paid the workers.
64233c No.14423076
>>14423062
Preorders shouldn't exist.
2e7166 No.14423094
>>14423062
How about not having any preorders at all?
0b46b1 No.14423104
111bb3 No.14423139
>>14423094
>>14423076
And then how do you make a decent sized AA game?
Kickstarter?
64233c No.14423159
>>14423139
Don't ask me. I just know that preorders are a Jewish bullshit tactic to sell unfinished games, which may never even get finished at all.
111bb3 No.14423170
>>14423159
ok, so you can just sit there and cry like everyone else
Preorders like this are the only way to fund games that are not published by big corporations while having something that's better than the usual asset flip form the unity store
I hope it gets out of beta to get a cheap key somewhere else, fuck paying 45$ for a game tough
64233c No.14423172
>>14423170
I won't cry about it. I just simply won't buy them.
8ac755 No.14423190
>>14423159
That's crowdfunding or early access. Pre-orders are for products that are finished or extremely close, and a way for buyers to get a copy on its release date, or for extra goodies that sometimes come out with them. In an ideal world. Unfortunately we live in one with bullshots and perversions of the original concept.
64233c No.14423232
>>14423190
>That's crowdfunding or early access.
I think early access is the one I was mainly thinking about. I really hate that idea.
But I still don't see much of a point for pre-orders, if the game is practically done already. You probably shouldn't be making a game if you can't afford to make one to completion. Like if you're doing crowdfunding, then great. Why not? Define a clear cut set of goals that won't be changed after development begins. Then make the game once you hit your target. This idea of continually creating new development goals and trying to continue milking money from people is Jewish as shit.
8ac755 No.14423294
>>14423232
>But I still don't see much of a point for pre-orders
Once upon a time, games were bought as a physical product which requires distribution at time and monetary cost. For the devs it's a good way to determine demand for shipping to a particular area (with some leeway) and for the buyer to assure they'll get a game they want. It does make less sense for games distributed digitally which alleviates those issues, which is why they tend to lean towards providing extras as an incentive to.
>Define a clear cut set of goals that won't be changed after development begins.
There is inherent uncertainty to paying now for something that isn't actually done, that's the nature of the beast. Naturally more will trust former Capcom devs with a spiritual Mega Man successor than they would you or me, especially if they present their idea well and it looks good, but that only increases the odds it'll come to fruition.
This extends just as well to buying games or even game consoles early in its life. Giving time is always the most sensible choice while diving headfirst is a risk.
>This idea of continually creating new development goals
Arguably that shows a lack of focus, but no, the major sin of most projects is inability to deliver on the original promise.
64233c No.14423331
>>14423294
>ye olden days of physical products
Yeah, I thinking about the pointlessness of pre-ordering a digital product. Even I pre-ordered a few physical copies of games back in the day.
>crowdfunding is risky…
That's true. But that's just how it works, isn't it? I don't know how you can alleviate any of that risk, beyond being a reputable company to begin with. I think the main pitfall of crowdfunding might be contributors having too much influence on the game design process. They may have donated $100 or whatever, but that doesn't mean their opinion is worth a shit.
>the major sin of most projects is inability to deliver on the original promise
These people shouldn't be making hollow promises to begin with, and should not be funded in the future. I still think they should be very upfront and transparent about goals, if you're taking the crowdfunding route.
02f89c No.14423366
ea824f No.14423374
>>14423046
Fuck FPSs with female models, i want TPSs with customizable female models.
I honestly don't understand why this isn't more common, a lot of people swarm around those kinds of games.
9b344c No.14423389
>>14423331
> I don't know how you can alleviate any of that risk, beyond being a reputable company to begin with
There's no company in the vidya industry that is reputable nowadays. And the ones that are aren't doing kickstarter with 100 kickstarter goals they will never complete are actually getting money from publishers or making indies in their spare time without needed finances that would bankrupt them.
>These people shouldn't be making hollow promises to begin with, and should not be funded in the future. I still think they should be very upfront and transparent about goals, if you're taking the crowdfunding route
Honest business doesn't get you 3.3 million or Shitty No. 2 amounts of money. The pattern I see is that they use the money to then get funding from a publisher so they don't have to answer or be accountable to the people who originally donated; they never wanted to be honest with people in the first place. Kickstarter has labelled itself the get rich quick for hack developers to con suckers off of nostalgia or other marketing bullshit.
7e4328 No.14423393
>>14420877
>learning art
>reading
>productive
I suppose reading can be useful if you're reading something like a technical manual to teach yourself a useful skill like electrical engineering, but art is a hobby and a waste of time. That's what a hobby is, an activity you do to waste time and entertain yourself with.
Also this >>14421003. You can read all the books you want but you haven't accomplished shit if you're just reading it. Speaking of which you read a lot on a text based forum like an imageboard but that's considered a waste of time by many, so why don't you fuck off and do something productive :^)
e41b55 No.14423433
Pre-orders enables dumb fucks to trade precious word-of-mouth that could inform them that the game isn't worth buying for the convenience of not having to look for a copy on release.
On the topic of video games vs. books, the only value in a work "of art" (if that triggers you, but what else to call it) to the consumer from a self improvement perspective is in what they take from it. If it inspires you to better yourself, if it challenges you mentally, if it improves hand-eye coordination, if you're learning new vocabulary, if it depicts an ideal for the younger generations to aspire to, if it gives the people an appreciation of their history and culture, and so on and so forth. Video games can be good or bad "for you" based on this, just as books or any other work can. An entire medium can never be judged as a whole. Anybody who does that is absolutely, certainly retarded.
I happen to think that playing a lot of grindy or gacha-type games is bad for you - they are meant specifically to waste your valuable time. That said, there can be value obtained from them, be it from the story, from mastering time management, inventory management, min-maxing, the list goes on. Video games are a waste of time only if you waste your time playing literally every shitty video game ever, or spend massive amounts of time replaying the same shit over and over (not including multiplayer, which strengthens your ability to compete with others on many levels, including mentally just by strategizing and reading your enemy). Sometimes it is a difference of how often you play video games compared to doing other things, not even which video games you play.
Are there people that have no value to society that waste time playing video games? Sure. There are people that do the same thing reading comic books, reading novels, watching television, going to bars and getting wasted, doing drugs… But saying you are superior to someone for reading books instead of playing video games is laughable. You could be reading Marxist bullshit and fully believing it, you could be reading Twilight, you could be reading anime titty light novels, and the other person could be playing grand strategy. There is shit and there is something you could call "kino" (kek) or educational/informative or cultural or personally challenging in every medium. Shitty books, good books, shitty games, good games.
Art can also be objectively good or bad from a creator's perspective though. Is it beautiful, does it represent reality in some way, is it well formed and accurate to anatomy and perspective, etc. In that same way, a video game can be judged by its assets, its code, its gameplay, and so on, the same way a video game can be judged by its aesthetic, its story, its characters, and so forth. Walking simulators are objectively bad games, despite that some people with shit taste may like them. They have no gameplay to speak of, the code unimpressive because there are no mechanics but walking and examining shit, the assets may be higher effort but typically low effort trash. They aren't "fun." Most walking simulators are also bad for you - they generally teach you nothing and you gain either nothing or actively bad shit (leftist propaganda) by playing them. Good games can waste your time as well. It's really just your own ego showing when making a blanket statement of "I don't play vidya, look how much better I am than all of you gaymers." Alternatively, low effort high reward bait for /v/. No (You)s from me. Sage for off-topic.
8ac755 No.14423445
>>14423331
>Yeah, I thinking about the pointlessness of pre-ordering a digital product.
If it has nothing extra of substance with it, then yeah, it's pointless.
>That's true. But that's just how it works, isn't it?
"Inherent uncertainty." Which is why the safest move is not to play unless you understand and accept that.
>I think the main pitfall of crowdfunding might be contributors having too much influence on the game design process.
That comes back to the developers not understanding what they were doing in the first place. Nobody wanted the crappier parts of the Mega Man games with MN9, or its dumbass community manager.
>These people shouldn't be making hollow promises to begin with
Occasionally that happens but most of the time you get hackjobs releasing something resembling the original concept and running off. At the very least few will trust them in future. This is nothing new though, people have tried to develop cars in the same fashion to mixed results but very few got second chances when they fucked up.
>>14423366
You're clearly bored. Go play a video game, or enjoy some 2D.
54cfd4 No.14423550
>ctrl+f squad
>0 results
I've never played it, has anyone here?
0e6156 No.14423607
>>14420056
>multiplayer
What? Are you some kind of a popular kid with friends?
dace31 No.14423900
>>14423076
>>14423094
EFT is closer to early access than pre-orders. Because if you "pre-order" you get access to the closed beta which is running most days. Also, complaints about muh P2W are because you get weapons with some packages doesn't mean shit. Some guy with a hatchet can fuck you up and steal all of it.
The biggest crime EFT commits is that it's a PvP/Mildly PvE looter shooter and not STALKER 2(Stalker 2 deserves EFT's gunplay and autistic weapon modding)
41e3f0 No.14423985
>>14421044
Halo 5 forge includes forge mode and custom games, so "in theory" you can do any sort of normal MP mode in it outside of the special shits and giggles ones I mentioned.
But my understanding is it's dead.
Also the campaign is trash so you wouldn't want to bother with it anyways. It's a shame because mechanically H5 has some of the best gameplay in the series.
91fa1c No.14424012
>>14423842
>>14420877
This is some well-woven bait.
5ef438 No.14424511
>>14421359
>Its spergs like you that ruin video games for all of us, not developers.
>people enjoy their new video games
:^)
7f2392 No.14425520
>>14423170
>Preorders like this are the only way to fund games that are not published by big corporations while having something that's better than the usual asset flip form the unity store
Yes, small development teams that made good games without begging for schmuck money beforehand never existed.
64275a No.14425525
>>14424012
But you don't weave bait. unless you're a fly fisher.
d2c19e No.14432552
>>14420056
>FPS
There's no such genre. If you're talking about Doomclones, they've been shit for a while now.
203643 No.14432608
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
https://www.mission-ctrl.co.uk/closed-alpha
Posting this here since it goes into closed alpha tomorrow and is taking sign ups. It's thread related. It's basically UT meets Tribes.
7fb251 No.14432695
>>14423985
Damn shame. 343 and Microsoft have no fucking clue what they're missing out on not porting the other Halos to the PC. If they did though, that would basically mean the death of Xcocks (and that's honestly for the better at this point), and they'd probably sully the opportunity with Denuvo or Windows Store exclusivity or some other dumb shit.
7fb251 No.14432721
>>14422679
>BF3 and 4
>good
>>14422687
I'd say it's been dead for about 11 years. Halo slowly but surely sank the genre, CoD4 was the deathblow.
F.E.A.R. and Crysis 1 were the swansongs for progressive, PC-centric FPS games with decent modding tools and good visuals and everything.
6a18ff No.14432727
Escape From Tarkov
2 hardcore 4 faggots tho, beware
7fb251 No.14432735
>>14421306
>NuDoom
Decent campaign, shit multiplayer.
>Immortal Redneck
I'm not big into Soylikes, thanks.
>Shadow Warrior 2
Kind of a meh Borderlands clone, at-least the first one was pretty-good.
51d14d No.14432835
>>14432735
The first nuShadow Warrior was boring to me. It was a game that felt like a chore with me wanting to get it over with.
c7530b No.14432918
>>14432835
NuShadow Warrior was just Painkiller japanese edition with a upgrading system, and some other gameplay tweaks. So if you didn't like painkiller it's not really surprising if you didn't the remake.
f31a84 No.14432925
>>14420056
Titanfall 2 is good
7fb251 No.14432937
>>14432925
Well, it would be if not for Origin and no mod support.
09e633 No.14432967
>ctrl-F
>"insurgency"
>1/1
Seems 8gag /v/ is still dumb as shit. Stay close-minded and don't play games that use BattleEye OK!!
d8ccff No.14433013
Well yeah the nips don't make any FPS and the western industry is pretty much dead right now. It'll come back, you never know Japan is starting to like shooters maybe we will finally get COD with cute anime girls.
203643 No.14433053
>>14433013
>Maybe we will get a shit game but now with a shit art "Style"
8effc6 No.14433058
f8b307 No.14433070
>>14421306
>Immortal Redneck
The weapon visual design and sound designs can cannonball into a volcano. All of the wooden weapons look like a firearms convention had a drunken night with a peanut factory.
e16156 No.14433081
>>14420056
Questions:
Why is aiming with sticks so tolerated? Why don't consoles or the games in the consoles natively support the most common input devices in the world?
If you answered "Casuals", you would understand why I don't give a shit about the genre.
e70b40 No.14433118
>>14433081
It's fits for every type of game out there despite being weaker for shooters.
e277f4 No.14433168
e6ab12 No.14433186
>>14420056
>FPS genre
>Only talks about multiplayer fps
That type of thinking is a good part of what fucked the genre actually. Also class based systems can work but it has to be part of a good game, for example RO:OST.
>>14420065
Too much grind.
e6ab12 No.14433198
>>14423170
>Preorders like this are the only way to fund games that are not published by big corporations while having something that's better than the usual asset flip form the unity store
100% untrue, companies like Croteam have been making vidya for years without resorting to such tactics.
98042b No.14433219
>>14420056
Not quite, Ion Maiden is…
>multiplayer FPS games
Aren't these games shat out all the time?
4042ef No.14433264
>>14421888
>>14421906
>>14422741
>tfw midair decided to go earlyaccess
>almost guaranteeing it will be dead on arrival
I don't know why small game developers do this. It's effectively staggering what little hype the game could have generated over a long develop time, so by the time it comes out excitement will have fizzled and died.
Also there is another Takagi poster in here and he is my nigger
8effc6 No.14433305
>>14433264
you got a name for that artist?
314a59 No.14433369
The best thing would be to push the big ones in the industry to keep wasting money on the genre, so they think that they will revamp it, only to lose even more money and hopefully, most go bankrupt as a result.
9a6522 No.14433400
How about a game where 3 chink loli weapon specialists have to clear africa of niggers?
2bc116 No.14434514
>>14420087
R.I.P. Blacklight you were fun while it lasted
02f89c No.14434585
>>14433118
>It's fits for every type of game out there
So does KB+M you fucking mong
10275d No.14435807
>>14433081
Because lying on the couch is more comfortable than sitting at the table. Target audience of teh consoles prefer that comfort over performance.
But here is the problem. If you allow KBM support you allow players with gear advantage to beat pad users. This is of course disruptive for their gaming experience. They either need to accept losing or move their asses from the couch to the table and pick KBM. "Lose - lose" situation. Negative experience for the target audience. Obviously console developers can't afford to allow small part of the gamers to create highly negative experience for their core majority.
Ideal technological solution for such problem would be new control device that is equal or better than KBM but can be used with the same postures as gamepad. You can invent such and become rich just kidding, of course some big corp will steal/bruteforce this device from your hands
314a59 No.14436170
>>14435807
So, the solution is the same as always: kill normalfags and whales.
313288 No.14436887
>>14433118
what is RTS
what is 4X
09e633 No.14437565
>>14433004
>>14433165
Still 0 results sweeties.
If you want to play enjoyable fps games stop being sheep/hivemind.
Insurgency:Sandstorm will save fps.
f7f440 No.14438149
>>14420994
>>14422803
I found the source. She's a demon girl who regenerates, don't worry.
5a3840 No.14438286
>>14433118
No, also DDR uses a dance mat, Guitar Hero uses a useless plastic piece of shit. Why can't you expect someone to play a FPS with a keyboard and mouse?
>>14435807
>Ideal technological solution for such problem would be new control device that is equal or better than KBM but can be used with the same postures as gamepad.
The Steam Controller is a lot of money spent on R&D in for something that can be replaced with mouse on a plank of wood or a clipboard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89qQy-rEUgg#15m45s
If you can't balance a keyboard on your lap, you could:
• get one of those breakfast on bed tables.
• get one of those ugly gamer armrests.
• use a separate number pad or one of those smaller "gamer" keyboards.
• hold a controller on one hand.
• stop complaining that you keep losing online and stop expecting others to handicap themselves so that you can play like a homo in a competitive game.
I take issue with this because it isn't even a crutch. Aiming with an analog stick just overall inferior even for a beginners. That is why don't respect "dude bros." Casuals don't play much games and don't play for long while. What do you call the faggots keep buying AAA garbage? I don't want to lump them in with a guy that is too busy to play video games seriously. Sony and M$ bragged about how they got input from the Destiny devs in designing their controllers. Sony treated Destiny as a system seller for the PS4. Why? It is not even an exclusive. With fighting games, you have to look for an arcade stick (It is fairly easy to find but keyboards and mice are easier to find.) and no one is asking to ban arcade sticks. Even the most casual fighting game is designed around its most preferable input device (see GameCube controller support for SSBB/4). Yet the industry spends millions on R&D to make a slightly better version of an inferior input method.
Sport games are the most cancer.
RPGs are the most pozzed.
FPSs are the most cucked.
9f72c3 No.14438426
>>14421140
>before it had loot shit
>implying their hasn't been a good tf2 update since 2010
edb7b9 No.14438556
>>14438426
the last update I remember enjoying was Sniper vs Spy
d1d4db No.14438615
tps are where its at anyhow for me. I like seeing the backside of my character as i lvl up and shoot fuckos
fb71bd No.14438623
>>14438286
>Why can't you expect someone to play a FPS with a keyboard and mouse?
I'd be OK with first person shooters focusing less on aiming and more on things like movement.
fb71bd No.14438637
>>14438615
thats essentially a first person shooter but instead of seeing your wrist you're seeing your shoulder. Over-the-shoulder third person shooter isn't a legitimate genre.
dace31 No.14438649
>>14438623
Tactical shooters are more about positioning than aim. Insurgency, Arma, those games would be more your speed.
fb71bd No.14438663
>>14438649
No, those are still about clicking heads on a horizon. I'm talking about movement, how you move around the environment, not which corner you're learning around while you wait for someone to walk through a doorway. Things like platforming being combined with shooting, circling around enemies, jumping off walls, actually interesting things and much less the ultra high skill task of clicking on the right spot.
d1d4db No.14438695
>>14438637
Do you really think that? i think something like resident evil or a competitive third person shooter seems a bit more fun and unique in a way from a first person shooter. With first person shooters they seem to lack something special in them other then you dying very quickly like cod.
third person shooters add something like shields, movement abilities, or cool ways to kill your enemies then just shooting at them
fb71bd No.14438713
>>14438695
I think a game like vanquish would be better, maybe a little less flashy, if the camera position was pulled back a few feet and lined up with the center of the screen.
dace31 No.14438733
>>14438663
>What he's talking about is even more aim intensive than the games he was complaining about
fb71bd No.14438735
>>14438733
is aiming hard for you in games?
6832b6 No.14439162
>>14437565
>Still 0 results sweeties
Well ain't you dumb.
09e633 No.14439263
7e4c28 No.14439464
>>14421191
This shit right here is too real. To me, ASSFAGGOTS ikr die the moment there is a single tournament and people start mindlessly copying the pros, or you reach a basic non-noob level where everyone knows more or less how the game plays and demand everyone plays according to the meta. It happens with every game.
In the case of League of Legends it got even worse because certain unintended builds became viable and the fucker devs just nerfed them to the ground to ensure champions were only played in a single correct way. ADC Sona was fun as shit; not extremely effective, but it had a surprise factor, until the devs decided supporta should only play as supports because their playerbase couldn't cope with that possibility.
10275d No.14439482
>>14438286
>• get one of those breakfast on bed tables.
Controlling with mouse lying is not convenient. It is much comfortable when elbow angle is close to 90 degrees. You can get away with it with claw grip and high sense but you just narrowed audience once again not everyone uses that. Also all these lying mouse set ups take serous time to get into and out, they lock your into one posture and this is not convenient. These set ups occupy space in the room. This is not convenient
Why gamers looking for convenience and comfort should cater to YOU? Name dozen good reasons why they just don't ban you and your mouse from their ecsosystem? That is right you have no such reasons. And this is advantage of capitalism over communism, people have choice. You can play FPS with mouse on PC, they can play with gamepad on consoles. Everyone is happy (except commie commissars.)
48f18c No.14439531
>>14438663
Then Overwatch was made exactly for you :^). Plenty of heroes with self aiming or splash abilities that don't require good aim
5a3840 No.14439621
>>14439482
>Why gamers looking for convenience and comfort should cater to YOU?
<Allowing people to play games that they bought with hardware they bought is compromising to other gamers.
Nice try, faggot. I guess that FF13 being also released in Xbox360 is Sonyggers catering to Xbots.
10275d No.14439712
>>14439621
><Allowing people to play games that they bought with hardware they bought is compromising to other gamers.
It is. As it requires gamepad users to change pads they have chosen for a mouse. Why do gamepad users need that change if they can ban mouse instead?
5a3840 No.14439746
>>14439712
>It is. As it requires gamepad users to change pads they have chosen for a mouse. Why do gamepad users need that change if they can ban mouse instead?
<Certain people have more money, more resources, more skill, and more investment into the game. We must make everyone shit for equality sake instead of encouraging people to improve.
6636f9 No.14439802
>>14439746
> We must make everyone
You can play with your kind. The one who suggests to make everyone the same is you.
d2859b No.14439805
>>14439769
why don't you try playing some snes roms and see where it goes from there? Yoshis Island, Mario World, Star Fox, all great games.
5a3840 No.14439840
>>14439802
>You can play with your kind.
<Fucking bourgeoisie scum!
>The one who suggests to make everyone the same is you.
<Giving people more options is forcing conformity.
<Incompetence should be subsidized.
f26611 No.14439847
>>14420056
an "official" death would mean no one is playing or making them anymore.
You probably mean a different word, like "technically" or "practically"
6636f9 No.14439888
>>14439840
><Giving people more options is forcing conformity.
>taking out gamepads is giving more options
i didn't want to say this several post before but looks like you are THAT KID nobody wanted to play with and everyone walked way from the yard when you and your "you must play by my rules" appeared.
5a3840 No.14439930
>>14439888
<taking out gamepads is giving more options
>Even playing a single player FPS on consoles with KBM isn't an option.
>Points out that it is stupid that you can't.
>Gets called a communists.
You don't need an arcade stick to play a fighting game and nobody bans fighting sticks in fighting games. Another thing, most PC versions of FPSs support both KBM and gamepads. No one fucking complains.
9e4269 No.14440000
>>14420087
Actually I guess they had it on hiatus for so long to escape Perfect World or something. They recently migrated to their own servers and released an update which adds some minor shit and most importantly reintroduces recoil.
dc2e92 No.14440025
>>14440000
Very nice
My autism tingles in anticipation at the upcoming seven in a row
dbd430 No.14440054
R6 Siege is going to shit after the game director quit during operation-health. I see no hope for it.
Insurgency was simple and fun as fuck and the workshop kept me playing, but then they had to fuck it up by tacking on anti-cheat and abandoning it to make some gay story-based sequel about totally strong independent, but oppressed women fighting the terrorists.
Nothing is sacred and nothing is forever.
That said, Tarkov looks like it's coming along nicely and I'd like to try it out, but beyond that I wouldn't hold my breath for FPS to suddenly get better.
59adc6 No.14440065
>>14420056
That weapon makes no sense whatsoever.
It looks like something out of borderlands 2
afb3ab No.14440087
>>14439746
I know your picture is bait, and yet I must reply
26313c No.14440096
>>14440065
It's based on the Steryr AUG or whatever it's called. From a pure structural POV it lacks one truss from the bottom of the grip to the stock, but I don't think it's that bad honestly, because it's a bullpup. Bullpup designs house the bits that cause the recoil in the stock so meh.
59adc6 No.14440150
>>14440096
I'm talking about the fact that the bullet have to turn inside the barrel from the receiver because the receiver is on the end side of the weapon, which is higher than the barrel itself.
Not to talk about the shitty design of the trigger
5f21aa No.14440240
>>14440087
… I think I know those guys in real life. It even seems like the type of photo they’d be in.
ce09df No.14440251
>>14440240
you know jontron irl?
5f21aa No.14440292
>>14440251
Ah no, fuck i guess my friend when he was younger just had a very jontron face
73adf6 No.14440411
>>14421326
>NO FUN ALLOWED FUCK BILDEOBAMES WAAAAAAAH
<ha ha funni redneck game
nigger I can fucking tell you didn't even bother to google this game, 1/10 bait for making me respond
027ed9 No.14440445
>>14440150
Huh. How about that, mother is right, I am simple. Time to burn up the engineering degree I guess
91fa1c No.14440605
>>14440087
>He doesn't know what a muderstroke is
8effc6 No.14440718
>>14439805
those are not first personal shootman games
22dd1e No.14441882
Hooktube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>he's not playing the greatest first person shooter of the current generation
ac459b No.14441894
>>14420087
>>14440000
did they remove the absolutely jewish equipment buying mechanics? that shit was almost as bad as AVA.
5a3840 No.14448540
>>14420056
It turns out some games in the PS4 and even PS3 can play KB+M but they have make their own driver or something. For such a long supported input device who is at fault for it not still being natively supported?
891d4e No.14450198
>>14440087
Never heard of Mordhau…
Never wondered where the phrase "pommel someone to death" originated
e0f558 No.14450217
nah, something new just needs to come out, new idea not another fucking arena shooter or CoD clone
bddd97 No.14450253
>>14421314
Look at this
>>14420221
>big siege fan
We don't talk like that. That's a shill. Nobody here would call themselves a "big siege fan". If you don't fucking get it when it's halfway spelled out for you, you also need to leave.
492075 No.14450276
>>14420102
>>14420129
I start to think Rian Johnson got Kylo Ren's edgy philosophy from /v/.
bf3d1e No.14450414
Quake Live
Halo 2 - Project Cartographer (I'd suggest playing it with a controller for the best experience, many people will disagree because muh fps but I find it 10 times better this way, you can even play split screen online multiplayer)
Project Reality/Squad
CSGO (cosmetic lootboxes only)
People here will suggest Insurgency and Red Orchestra/Rising Storm but they are only good for some hours of casual play.
Many will say CSGO is shit but it's the only way to play consistently good 5v5 matches, Source and 1.6 are only good if you are into shitty mods.
Many ubicucks will try to convince you about R6 Siege, don't listen to them unless you like cancer.
Oh, there's also Titanfall 2, but it will eventually die and honestly, it gets boring after a while.
8effc6 No.14455677
>>14450414
halo 2 what now?
8b48db No.14455741
>>14450414
Haven't played Siege or Titanfall because I hate 3rd-party DRM schemes steam is a necessary evil
64275a No.14455791
>>14450414
>recommends halo and CS:GO
<but no siege is cancer
032abb No.14455851
>>14421016
Agreed coming from a former HARDCORE CONSOLE COD PLAYER XD
fb71bd No.14455863
>>14455791
>can get banned for saying mean words
siege is cancer
64275a No.14455873
>>14455863
That shit and the gay ass zombie update is recent. It had a good run.
928b5b No.14456489
>>14455791
Siege is designed to get worse with every new update, since their main goal is to sell season passes by introducing uninspired operators. It's bloated, it lacks direction and all the core mechanics are compromised in some way to please both pc and console gamers.
5a3840 No.14460237
Instead of allowing players to play new interesting ways, they forced most players to play with proven to be inferior control scheme.
4b1b6c No.14460472
Are there any games like Counter-Strike (or at least no instant respawn) with some more weapon depth?
e3e2ea No.14461236
>>14420261
I stopped playing about a year ago, I don't like the maps and new mercs. I do have good memories from the game though, nice high scores, I used to be pretty good.
e3e2ea No.14461334
7b654b No.14461400
>>14421285
>>14420221
>word-bans in the chat and adding pick-and-ban systems
Threadly reminder that any game that does that has a 999% rise in exploitability.
>Grief.
>Get called names.
>Report people for being mean.
>People you've grieved get banned.
>People banned scream it's unfair.
>Troll them even more.
>???
>PROFIT.
I mean it's literally some shit that has the potential to end up with a mass shooting at Ubisoft…
f203dc No.14461431
Genres don't die, anon, they peak and 10+ years later are appreciated by hipsters.
decafb No.14465600
>>14420056
FPS is irremediably going to shit, but thats for new shit.
>>14460472
At least most shit with team elimination and plant the bomb.
But weapon depth, almost never.
dace31 No.14465622
>>14460472
R6 Siege Even though it gets worse with every update
b37e72 No.14466259
>>14439162
Kill yourself frogposting scum your kind is not wanted here.
fb976a No.14466349
I'm hoping that Battalion 1944 will be good.
9b6edf No.14474616
>ctrl+f ziggurat
>0 results
Niggas go play Ziggurat.
bf3d1e No.14474749
>>14465622
Siege literally has 2 weapons: shotgun and automatic rifle/smg with acog sight.
Each variant of these 2 weapons plays exactly the same as the others.
And the gunplay is just aiming down the sight to magically increase accuracy while strafing around corners and abusing peeker's advantage, zero depth, zero variety, zero decision making involved, if you peek aggressively and aim for the head first you win.