/v/ - Video Games

>>14412839

First few days people have fun running solo or in small 2 or 3 man teams.

A week later theres a large group that just shits on everyone and everything.

If there is another group that shows up, they tend to avoid each other just because it's more efficient to hunt solo players and farm pve enemies than fight each other.

>>14412855

I had a stint where i camped on the roof of a department store by climbing a well hidden set of bookcases out of a window and onto an outcropping and used a marksmans rifle to just kill rogues picking on beginners. With the always on local -in game- voice chat it was funny to hear a bunch of mexicans, and for some reason they are always hispanics or french going rogue, going 'j'yo mang, don' go down this street. Sum ass'ole on a roof is tryan too ruin our fun'

This is a big problem in any open PvP game (and really, anarchy as a concept). If you decide to have gay tryhardcore pvp with no rules, people will game the system to make it work for them.

Thing is that's not the worst part. In any game that puts you in a position where you're trying to avoid a fight, the people looking for a fight are paradoxically accepting the least amount of risk. Consider Archeage and it's shipping mechanic: pirates take on virtually no risk looking for a fight while people trying to sell goods accept all the risk if they are attacked. The reason is because pirates get to pick their fights. This shit goes all the way back to Ultima Online, the game most of these "hardcore" PvP games are inspired by. Thing is, they always seem to forget UO actually had consequences for being a murderous psychopath: bounties would get placed on you and you would be excluded from civilized society and all the services it provides. If you died, you even had to find special healers to resurrect you because most of them wouldn't.

Good luck finding that in any modern game.

>>14412839

Eve should be the only proof that faggots will always ruin pvp centered stuff, it only takes one group of people behaving like cunts to ruin it for everyone since others will just follow example

>>14412943

I would say 'why does ganking up in a swarm appeal to goons so much in all these games' but thats basically their life ethos.

>>14412871

Doesn't surprise me. Spics are the most pathetic race on the planet.Zero positives.

>>14412943

And that's another reason why no matter how good a survival day z clone is if it devolves in a grieffing fest.

>>14413043

Ironic in this day and age that a permanent name and shame system doesnt exist. Back when FFXIV relaunched with 2.0 i was on a server where french assholes crashed the market with no survivors. So 3 german crafting guilds formed a grey market network and every member of the frenchies screaming "ENGLISS LEVE, THIS FR SERVER NOW" - because apparently the hicks of france are super butthurt english replaced french as the 'lingua franca' and they will go out their way to ruin an english speakers experience even in games where they are on the same team and they blame it on muslim immigrants that all happen to speak perfect french but only pig english. funny that- were black listed by everyone. This meant no crafting at a time when the best weapons -and the only ones for raiding either were crafter made or involved high level materia melding only crafters could do.

With their reputation poison they were unable to raid and quit. As a server we pumped up prices on everything by at least 4000% so now we have a stable economy.

I heard wild west online was planning a bad rep system but last i heard that games toning down such things based on the whales who want a wow clone.

>>14413090

The developers of Wild West Online made the War Z mess that they had to rebrand to fool people into buying their game.

>>14413114

and red dead 2 is going to be riddled with microtransactions. If you want western games you have to pick your poison.

>tfw no wierd westerns after darkwatch on ps2.

>>14412839

Open PVP always leaves open the most opportunity for griefing but also the most opportunity for organic experiences. My favorite, and probably only memorable, experience in The Division is when I ran around a corner an accidentally blasted another player in the face, thinking he was a random NPC. What started off as a bunch of solo players avoiding each other turned into a goddamn bloodbath, everyone shooting everyone else on sight. It was hilarious and after maybe an hour or so, everyone got together and started helping each other fight the tougher NPCs. Hell, how many people spent hours fighting over Tarren Mill and Southshore for no real reason other than because it was fun? But the problem in both Division and WoW was the powercreep got out of hand. One player with badass gear could take down entire parties of players without fear until someone else just as strong showed up. The only way I can think of to correct this is either a bounty system that penalizes the PKer or a level/gear scaling system

>>14413145

Red dead Redemption is going to add shark mine deeds like I joked a few months ago?

>>14413155

Beyond that. Lockboxes, season pass, day one dlc. In game 'funpay minibuys' in every regard. Rockstar has gone full dark side and said "people pay for it who cares?"

>>14412839

The Dark Zone sounded like an interesting idea but in reality it's just a place to get gang-raped.

The other day I decided to step into the DZ first time since the game launched to do a weekly contract (kill 50 LMB or some shit like that), I picked up some loot and tried to extract it until a full team popped-up out of nowhere at the last second and killed me.

>>14412909

Honestly, that's the first thing I thought off.

Players forming bandit gangs? Give them reasons not to without being retarded.

Debuff for killing players is straight dumb, but how about making NPCs wary of bandits, players who kill and steal from many players. Need a doctor? The good kind town doctor doesn't like degenerates like you. The jew doctor, however, doesn't care about what you do, but he'll cost you.

You pretty much create two separate economies, one for the good goys and another for the degenerates, allowing people to even be smugglers of sort, buying the cheap items from the kind townsfolk and selling them for a higher price to the degenerates, but it'll be worth it for both of you, though you risk dealing with degenerates.

It's something really simple to implement and it adds so much to the game.

Modern devs are incompetent, so I'd understand them fucking it up, but not adding it at all? That's a new low.

A bullet sponge game can never be fun. Fundamentally shooting guns is about the feedback from hitting and killing the targets. If that takes too long the game isn't fun. Bosses and certain special enemies can be an exception and a contrast, but there must be enough cannon fodder to maintain the enjoyment. The Division is all bullet sponge, all of the time.

Anything built on a bullet sponge game is therefore not fun. It's rotten from the core. This is also why Destiny and many other console-style games are so bad. Brink is probably the ultimate example of a game ruined by bullet sponge design.

You can't judge any other ideas when they're hamstrung by being in a fundamentally broken and unenjoyable game.

>>14413397

It's even worse in a game where most enemies are just people wearing plain-clothes. It's one thing to shoot a robot, a zombie, or a monster six times in the head to kill it. It's another thing entirely for some random street thug.

>>14412839

Open PVP is inherently broken without enforced factions. It never works in a favorable way. You essentially always end up with some alpha-clan/guild/crew that simply dominates the entire area/server/map on a per session or permanent basis.

The issue isn't the system itself, it's who it attracts, that being the fuckhats who get off exclusively on ruining other peoples' experience. It isn't anything about the 'deadliest prey' or whatever, it's just shitheads plain and simple.

The only solution is enforced factions and even then it's basically just 'who can bring the biggest team'. Honestly, PVP is inherently broken outside of smaller team based games, and even then it's a shitshow since no one works together.

>>14412839

No, much like real life this type of system (also used in EVE) favours the giant groups of faggots rather than the small groups of friends. Same reason we have massive multinational corporations.

Looks like there's a global event this week end.

>>14413437

>Open PVP is inherently broken without enforced factions.

The Division could've been way better if they had allowed players to join one of the factions (LMB did nothing wrong).

>>14413423

Yes. It's not only frustrating and unfun but also logically ridiculous. It becomes either annoying or comically bad. Think of the type of person who not only puts up with it but defends it and pays for microtransactions! People like that are posting on this board.

It started for two technical reasons: hiding shit-tier netcode with low damage guns and hiding shit-tier graphics and engine code with a low enemy count. A good example of that is Doom 1 and 2 against 3. The grunt enemies become bullet sponges in 3 to hide the poor engine, whereas in 1 and 2 there are huge hoards of them. Rage took it even further. Nudoom has a low enemy count too for the same reason. The player himself becomes a bullet sponge with the press attack to auto-kill health regen melee.

A simple test is how many of the normal foot soldiers can you kill with one shotgun blast. In a bullet sponge game the value will be something like 0.2 (multple hits to kill one enemy). In the division it is probably like 0.01 or something. In Doom it is often 3 or 4 or even higher. That is fun.

The problem seems to stem from the fact players can easily stay in one spot and power up permanently. To fix such a system, one must discourage staying in the same place and give players a reason to be individualistic above all else. The Division, being a shitty cover-based co-op shooter from 2009, actively works against this. Even if there was the constant lure of a bounty sitting on the heads of everyone around you, that would introduce another problem: how do you reward someone working outside the "law," so to speak? What amount of money is that worth? What kind of in-game item could you possibly award? How are the numbers of this item when compared to other items, because the best weapons being locked behind bad behaviour is an entirely different kettle of fish.

>>14413145

>If you want western games you have to pick your poison

Whatever happened to Fistful of Frags on Steam? I played it a bit a few years ago and stopped paying attention when the dev said he wanted to redo the models, but a quick glance at the Steam store page shows they're the same (which is good, because the 2010 Source aesthetic is at least half the charm). It only has a few hundred players rather than the few thousand it had in 2014, but I would have expected it to be dead by now.

>>14413258

>playing WoW BC, lvl 50 gnome warlock

>riding through westfall (the human farm area that was really golden and brown)

>come upon the main alliance city to find a lvl 35 orc hunter dancing on the mailbox in front of a bunch of lvl 12s

>it's a PvE server and he's flagged for PvP, knowing nobody can do anything about it

>i ride up next to him, dismount, and begin casting soulfire (a giant fuck-you fireball that always crits but is impractically slow to cast)

>he stops dancing

>looks at me

>runs

>crests a hill just as the cast finishes

>it fires off and follow him over

>see nothing but the gigantic damage numbers over the top of the hill and a notification telling me i've killed him

>camp his corpse a few more times once he tries to resurrect

>he eventually disconnects

>receive a message from an alliance character

>"this is the hunter, sorry about teasing the low level players"

>>14413397

This is another big part of why The Division's actual gameplay design is at odds with itself. The trailers wanted you to feel sad for the tragic loss of human life after the plague swept through town, but then you go out to shoot some Perfectly Innocent Minorities™ and suddenly Trayvon takes half a fucking assault rifle magazine to sit down. It reminds me of Dead Island now that I think about it, which no game ever should.

>>14413622

How's the game shaping up so far?

>>14415351

You sound like someone that only 'rolls with a group' which kind of throws 'high risk, high reward' out of the window.

>>14414810

Pretty good, albeit the netcode is still shit.

>>14413622

That's the game where the devs are nice enough to give you guaranteed access to the upcoming beta if you pay them $200, right?

>>14416539

No, there's a hundred dollar edition but it seems more like a scam honestly since the armor you get got nerfed really hard.

>>14412839

>can a lawless wasteland avoid being ruled by warlords

no

>>14413097

>doesn't read the thread title

>is either purposely being retarded or is an illiterate nigger

>1&d1

>putting "nu" in front of a word in an attempt to fit in

(You) should heed your own instructions.

>>14416880

what game is this again

Bottom line is that people are pussies, they want to be assholes but are terrified of the possibility of someone being an asshole back at em. They refuse to have a duel in equal ground. They will either cheat the system or gang up on a single person who is new at the game. No risk.

In the Wakfu mmo there is citizen points system, doing things that abide to the law or help the ecosystem such as replanting plants or species that are in danger of extinction in an area gives you points. Doing illegals things such as killing endangered species or other players from the same or allied nations removes points, and if you have negative points you become an outlaw. Being an outlaw means that you will have a big sign above your character, and anyone that kills you earns good boy points, while the outlaw is sent to jail upon respawning where they have to wait X amount of time depending on low bad their citizen points were. You could speed up the timer by doing mining work in the prison and it was possible to find a hidden exit while mining letting you escape but remaining an outlaw.

Now that i explained what the system was, what actually HAPPENED was that people would use multiple characters and farm points. Killing a person, -100 points. Planting an endangered species of plants or animals? actually i dont remember how many points that gave, +6 or so maybe. So they would make a second character who would fuck up the ecosystem in an area, change characters and then fix it to reap points. So there were people ganging up on new players on areas with basic crafting resources but you couldnt fight back because they outnumbered you, and even if you formed a party to drive them out, killing them reduced YOUR points because even if they killed 20 players, their points were still in the positive and they had more than enough to keep killing with no consequence. Even those that DID become outlaws continued to harrass because the reward for capturing them was so tiny it was pointless, and a lot of outlaws werent even players who were harrassing others but new players who didnt understand how the entire mechanic worked.

The worst part is that the title of outlaw was designed to be a PUNISHMENT for mistreating other players and the ecosystem but people thought of it as a FACTION. Players DEMANDED that the outlaw faction received some kind of buff like secret oulaw bases or items, still not grasping that it was a PUNISHMENT. This happened for so long that Ankama, the developers gave in last i heard and added special areas for them.

Another example of people being pussies is that the game had 4 nations with their own areas and territories. Other than these, there were several neutral islands with mobs and resources exclusive to them. The idea was to have nations wage wars and form alliances to claim dominion over these islands, reap the benefits of these islands and their buffs. Not only that, it was possible to take over some of the outer territories in a nation but doing this was hard as it involved not only pvp but a special boss for each area would join the defending team. This was gonna be a huge point for pvp across many different areas and politics, nations forming or breaking alliances.

What did people do? 4 nation alliance, no fighting no war. Taking turns over who every island. No invasions, no fun.

>>14416914

>"Players DEMANDED that the outlaw faction received some kind of buff like secret oulaw bases or items, still not grasping that it was a PUNISHMENT. This happened for so long that Ankama, the developers gave in last i heard and added special areas for them."

>not fixing the issue at hand

disgusting

>>14417005

except the game explicitly warns you quite often throughout the story that it's a shithole you should pretty much never enter, you've clearly never played the game (which i can't fault you for) if you think the dz is attempting to portray anarchy in a positive light

also 50% of the division is literally just killing niggers, in regards to the looters and escaped convicts

I think that this kind of game could work, the devs just have to be very clever in providing mechanical stops for every type of poor behavior the players think up. Admittedly, nothing comes to mind for dealing with a large group of friends who queue up together.

>>14417309

don't put them into the same server if they're on each others friends list and not in a group, for 60 days this should occur

if rogues not in a group are close to each other cooperating, start to damage them with the virus or something if they haven't attacked each other for 2 minutes

>>14417330

I like the friends list idea, but at some point, you know that the damage solution would affect people who didn't realize their enemy was nearby.

>>14417371

they show up on the map though, at least at manhunt status which is what griefers always are because you get it after killing 5 innocents iirc

Bounty's,Multiple spawn points,have really strong NPC's hunt down the PK'ers after a certain number of kills,say they're a militia that got formed to stop the player/s reign of terror,have them appear on the minimap if they have a bounty and stay in 1 block for too long,i don't fucking know i'm just spitballing here,but i'm pretty fucking sure if i was being paid to do it i could pull something out of my ass that would deal with the situation or at least diminish it until the goons adapted to it.

There not being any kind of anti-grief mechanic in a free for all PVP shooter is just lazyness.

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