747337 No.14349525
>Prey
>its about a native american fighting Aliens
>Turok
>its about a native american fighting Aliens
Is there a reason why natives end up fighting aliens all the time? The 2 games I can think of with native americans both involve fighting reptilian aliens, seems like a really weird coincidence.
42af5b No.14349559
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
b58c41 No.14349560
Turok is based on a syndicated newspaper comic strip later adapted by Image
As for Prey its because having aliens made for a more interesting shooter than making a shitty by numbers call of duty knock off.
b48829 No.14349561
>>14349525
Because most people are either too retarded or too boring to make anything else about American Indians.
I know this sounds SJW but there's a lot of good shit in Native American folklore and even pre-colonial history that would make for some decent vidya, but most devs are too retarded to actually realize that there were a multitude of different tribes with unique cultures that usually end up getting turned into a bland generalized diversity-tier mush because they can't be arsed to do research.
b58c41 No.14349571
>>14349560
Oh and Prey was essentially a re-purposed 1997 game and aliens were pretty popular to have as an enemy back then, so all concept art and gameplay ideas revolved around it.
>>14349561
>Because most people are either too retarded or too boring to make anything else about American Indians.
You're retarded if you seriously believe that.
19620b No.14349573
>>14349525
Was it Call of Jaurez when you played as a half-indian or was it a half-spic? I can't remember.
c2555a No.14349646
>indians fail at repelling european invaders
>in-game indians succeed in fighting off alien invaders
Big think.
Or maybe the creators really liked the idea that people of the land with ancient knowledge are the only ones capable of fighting off ancient alien evil.
81fb0d No.14349653
UFO sightings and whatnot end up happening near their populations
6c24ce No.14349660
>>14349573
In the second one you play as a half native american and use a bow and shit. It was pretty fun.
0b1a6e No.14349677
>>14349525
>Hey son, ye reading one of yer French porn comics?
811a0a No.14349686
>>14349561
It's because injuns and their shit "culture" are about as relevant and interesting as niggers and their "culture".
55bb40 No.14349698
>>14349686
You sound like a racist.
6c83f8 No.14349708
Aliens are a natural enemy of Red Indians. Skinwalkers, Chubacabras, Las Brujas de Monterrey: those all come from space and they've been plaguing Native Americans for billions of years.
518c9a No.14349713
>>14349561
>there were
Here's the rub: there aren't now. They've become a homogenous underclass of leeches. Maybe GTA Reservation could be fun but anything looking accurately at them would only endorse strict racial protectionism to prevent it from happening to us in the future.
1ed7cd No.14349728
>>14349709
Good to see leftypol is still assblasted.
6f2d5e No.14349744
>>14349525
Where is the first pic from? Is there a story behind it?
811a0a No.14349753
>>14349744
It's from Plaboy, though I have no idea who the artist might be.
c2a48d No.14349775
>>14349698
i swear that kid looks like he has no idea what the fuck is going on
518c9a No.14349807
>>14349772
>>14349753
Pretty sure it's Buck Brown.
535b62 No.14349813
>>14349525
Nobody wants to get into a legal battle with a protected criminal class. It would be like making a game about Jews. It's suicidal.
a2afa5 No.14349814
>>14349753
>>14349807
It reminds me a bit more of Dany but I doubt he ever worked with Playboy.
747337 No.14349822
>>14349744
I dunno I got it from ED. It is definitely french though, you can tell by the art style.
4c74d8 No.14349826
>>14349525
whos the artist for that indian picture?
716662 No.14349886
>>14349561
>that there were a multitude of different tribes
Plenty of them weren't even tribes:. The Pueblo and other southwest groups had proto-cities and early urban communities (pic 1 and 2) and the beginnings of a civilization. The Mississippians actually outright had an early civilization with cities that were basically on par with cities/towns in more rural areas of medivial europe/northern europe/indo europeans (Pic 3, 4 and 5; Cahokia, pic 3, being the most impressive example, having had a population of around 40k people, which was bigger then any city in the american colonies/early america till the early/mid 1800's) and effectively had proto-political states with the beginnings of a truly complex society with a ruling class, dynasties, etc. Even beyond that, plenty of other random cultures had actual towns and primitive cities at various points in time, but they collapsed, either due to environmental pressures, and then by diseases that spread across the contient once Europeans arrived. The Plains Indians weren't even a thing before the 1500's when they got displaced from settlements and early towns due to diseases ravaging shit.
And then obviously Mesoamerica (Mexico, Guatamala, etc) and the Andes (Peru, Bolvia, etc) were just outright actual filled with political states with proper bureaucratic governments and actual urban cities, and both of those regions were basically entirely at least bronze age tier in most respects, outright being iron age or even on par with europe at the time in a few ways. But they fall prey to the same issue where people homogenize them/can only name the Aztec, Maya, and Incans even though there are hundreds of other advanced states in those regions/people incorrectly think they were just tribal savages outside of having big pyramids, and because of American centralism people don't think of them as "Native Americans".
Japanese popular culture doesn't have that America focused perspective, though, so they tend to freeily mix Native American groups in what's now the US with stuff from Mesoamerica and the Andes freeily. They also tend to throw in easter island heads and other "lost ancient culture" ancient aliens shit in too: See Super Mario Oddessy with the Moai heads in Toastarena or the Wazzap/Wazzup ruins in MM:SF2, which is a mix of southwest US, Mesoamerican, and andean shit with atlantis/moai heads.
657e84 No.14349896
>>14349886
>Mesoamerica
>still no ARGP about running around as a Mayan or Aztec fighting off mythological creatures to stave off a calamity
called the spanish
19620b No.14349901
>>14349660
Nah, the second one you play as the priest before he became a priest and his brother.
His brother gets killed in the first game and the priest starts hunting down his nephew because he thinks he killed his brother.
11b566 No.14349905
>>14349525
They were in fighting games before.
>>14349698
>>14349709
He's probably a Canadian. They're cucks when it comes to everything, but they RESENT native americans for some reason.
50b071 No.14349912
>>14349561
>multitude of different tribes with unique cultures that usually end up getting turned into a bland generalized diversity-tier mush because they can't be arsed to do research.
Akshewally…. it's probably because they did do the research. American Indians mostly slaughtered, or conquered each other, leading to a total mixing of cultures. Ie, American Indians were truly multi-culti. Eg, the plains Indians were the most "civilized", but even they would conquer and absorb neighboring tribes regularly. Look up the Blackfeet or "siksika" tribe of Montana / Canada. They do the Sundance, conquered the shit out of their neighboring tribes, became master horseman, learned how to use guns, and developed Counting Coup.
518c9a No.14349915
>>14349905
>but they RESENT native americans for some reason.
Probably because they're a bunch of criminal leaches.
10cce8 No.14349924
>>14349525
>native americans
Probably because it's a farce to begin with. Here you go.
0b1a6e No.14349927
42af5b No.14349944
>>14349924
imagine if this game was good
716662 No.14349960
>>14349924
>>14349912
> the plains Indians were the most "civilized", but even they would conquer and absorb neighboring tribes regularly.
Not him but see >>14349886
The Plains indians weren't even a thing before europeans showed up
>>14349924
>this shit again
There's a few disputed findings suggesting that there might have been some proto-european crossoover to the easteern US like 20k years ago, and there's also some mostly debunked genetic evidence that there's proto-european ancestry in some native american groups; but even if those are both true, "Nattive americans" as we know them still existed as a result of proto-asians crosseing over the bering land straight from the west as well, and are responsible for the cultures you know of as native americans, mesooamericans, and andeans.
9ae0a3 No.14349968
>>14349561
>I know this sounds SJW but (mild praise of nonwhites)
Anon pls, you don't need to pander to the screeching white supremacists. Most of them are lefty shills and ought to be ignored.
518c9a No.14349974
>>14349886
>on par with europe at the time in a few ways.
Anon this is totally bullshit and you know it. Their technology and city building is Mohenjo daro level (18kya), not comparable to anything created by a complex state.
17253c No.14349978
>>14349686
>It's because injuns and their shit "culture" are about as relevant and interesting as niggers and their "culture".
Except that there's a pretty pervasive "noble savage" myth in American culture that exemplifies Native Americans. Niggers are just niggers, and the closest we've come to a "noble savage" narrative is BLM and Dindu Nuffins.
395b60 No.14349989
Why play as injuns when you can play as eurasian nomads and wander the steppes in service to Tengri?
9533e4 No.14349997
>>14349924
Germanic tribes literally lived in nigger tier huts during the glory days of Rome.
b12b72 No.14350001
>>14349997
>brink base with proper roof
>nigger tier
????
518c9a No.14350003
>>14349997
And the Romans lived in a circular tent encampment at the top of a hill during the high days of Greece. Your point being?
b12b72 No.14350008
>>14350003
Hes a faggot thats going to insist that Europe was like Africa before Christianity.
17253c No.14350012
>>14350008
> thats going to insist that Europe was like Africa before Christianity.
Europe is still like Africa.
db4707 No.14350017
>>14349728
You can tell from the first glance
>>14349997
>brick huts
>same as nigger mudhuts
518c9a No.14350027
>>14350020
No, this thread is about what every thread is about, needless argumentation.
80d869 No.14350031
>>14349896
>Fighting against the Spanish as the last boss
This shit actually sounds pretty fucking rad. Like imagine having a somewhat easy time until the white man comes and he wreckes your shit, testing your skill to the absolute limit
008ded No.14350032
>>14349886
>the anti-spanish pole is at it again
They're all subhumans, they seem noble to you because you don't deal with them.
t. Argie
b12b72 No.14350036
>>14350020
Jesus, m8. What is there to talk about honestly if we don't into what ifs based on red-skin history. And for once won't you faggots actually start blaming the faggots who start shit instead of everyone?
>>14350012
Former colonial countries have now become a colonies of their colonies.
b58c41 No.14350038
5a5c13 No.14350041
>>14349896
nah, I'd rather a game about the plains Indians fighting off strange sun haired albino beserkers (the vikings)
518c9a No.14350044
>>14350041
That lasted what, ten years?
>>14350036
>Former colonial countries have now become a colonies of their colonies.
Internal colonization is the end state of every empire, immediately before collapse.
008ded No.14350045
I really don't understand northerners' fascination with amerindians.
331b5e No.14350102
"Huahuhahuhe me takem whiteman's land" - bullshit indians
f05505 No.14350154
Native americans are just incredibly forgettable. The numbers aren't there, barely any of us even exist anymore. So of course it's going to be difficult to find variety in video games about them. The alien shit just seems like a coincidence I suppose.
Chugs have no presence in modern society, it's only natural we don't have a presence in media. There's nothing to gain from using them as a political piece because the few left alive are too lazy to vote.
It's not like there's some hidden depth to the culture or stories either. They are as boring as they often sound. So we'll continue to get flooded with nigger and chink shit instead, because that's what the kikes are replacing the majority of the population with.
716662 No.14350162
>>14349974
You are aware that line is in reference to Mesoamerican and Andean cultures such as the Aztec and Inca? Not North Native American groups?
Because if you are aware that's what I was saying, then you are fucking retarded or are simply not informed on the topic. Speaking in terms of Mesoamerica, using the Aztecs as the main example:
>Their political government, and legal complexity was comparable to iron age cultures, with a complex bureaucratic system with both municipal and state levels, with paid civil servants and other paid public officials, a full legal system with courts and judges, officially run schools, municipal police forces, etc
>In terms of mathematics, they were likely about on par with bronze age cultures such as the Mesopotamian, Egyptians, etc with the ability to calculate area, complex astronomy, and ahead of those, had zero as a concept; and did architectural/urban planning/and mapping feats on par or ahead of those cultures, a but if they could do trigonometry, algebra, or how much exactly they stack up is unknown since most native books and documents were destroyed,
>In terms of agriculture, and hydraulics, they were *ahead* of Europe, having running water, toilets, fountains, and aqueducts very early on into their history and by the time of the aztecs having the Aztec capital built on a lake with artificial islands used as residential/farmland with canals, aqueducts, and causeways cutting across the lake and city, and a levee system to keep freshwater inside and brackish water out that the Spanish were unable to replicate, as well as nature preserves, and botanical/zoological parks/gardens.
>In terms of currency and economics, they were on par with bronze age cultures. They had no central currency or banking system, instead trading with cacao beans and cloth, but had professional merchants, taxes, trade lines, and tributary relationships with other city states and empires that required documentation and land surveys, and large markets, with the Tlatelolco marketplace in the Aztec capital having 50k-60k people using it per day, making it one of if not the largest sites of commerce in the world at the time.
>In terms of metallurgy, they had complex smelting and alloying techniques for soft metals, such as copper, silver, and gold, as well as being capable of producing bronzes, but copper usage was not nearly as widespread as in bronze age cultures, and bronze itself was fairly rare and a recent development; I'd call them Chalcolithic here
>In terms of hygienics and medicine, they were on par with or ahead of Europe at the time: Not only did mesoamerica have flush toilets and plumbing as early as around 200AD. The Aztecs at the time of contact showered multiple times per day, used soaps, had entire classes of civil servants to sweep streets, wash buildings and transport and dispose of waste daily; and used the aforementioned gardens to stock medicinal supplies, grow sweet smelling trees and flowers, and they had a semi-empirical approach to medicine. Spanish accounts note native doctors were superior to those in europe.
1/2
9f819f No.14350171
>>14349822
>>14349525
need source on those pics tbh
008ded No.14350186
>>14350162
GO AWAY YOU POLISH JEW
3110e8 No.14350200
>>14350171
>>14349822 La Jeunesse de Spirou (by Philippe Tome and Janry)
As for the one with the indians I dont know, it might be from L'Echo des Savanes.
5437fd No.14350202
>>14350186
Dejalo postear al nene che
716662 No.14350206
>>14350162
>>14349974
cont:
>In terms of city sizes, they were about on par with iron age cultures, and matched much of europe and asia of the time of contact, with average city size being 20k to 30k people, with the largest cities in the 100k-300k range, on par with the largest cities in europe at the time. The core of the Aztec empire was one of the most densely populated places on the planet period.
>In terms of the arts was between bronze/iron age level. They had poets, full books, and philosophers, but to what extent is hard to judge due to most sources being burned. In terms of fine arts, there were professional sculptors (which actually could produce realistic sculpts), and potters, as well as fairly detailed and impressive muralists and frescos. They had insane featherworking capabilities, and during the early colonial period, made religious paintings out of interwoven feathers rather then paint (pic related)
>In terms of military complexity was at least on par with bronze age cultures in most ways: They had a full military hierarchy with a system of ranks and a clear way to progress among them, elite military orders and guilds, complex logistics and supply lines, and decently complex tactics that changed on the fly and organized armies that fought in formation, used signalling tools such as standard bearers, and that responded to orders from generals rather then breaking up into individual combat, but really only had swords, polearms, axes/maces, and bows/thrown spears; with Siege towers being the sole siege weapons
>In terms of education, they were actually ahead of europe at the time with mandatory public education for children regardless of social class or gender, though which school you went to and what you;'d be taught was class/gender based after a certain point.
>In terms of maritime capabilities, they really only had canoes (some of them would have been quite large, capable of seating 50+ people, and some with more complex features such as awnings, raised bows/sterns, and row-locking mechanisms, however) and as far as we know never developed the sail; I'd call them Chalcolithic here
Tl;dr:
>Metallurgy and Maritime/boating being Chalcolithic/early bronze age level
>Mathematics and economics on par with bronze age cultures
>Military complexity, and the Arts (both material and stuff like poetry and philosophy) being above/at the top of bronze age level, but not quite iron age level
>political/diplomatic complexity, legal, bureaucratic, and municipal systems, and social complexity being iron age tier
>public education, city sizes, agriculture, hydroengineering, and hygienic practices on par with or ahead of complementary 16th century Europe
Note: I don't know a ton about maritime/boating tech, economics, military complexity, or the arts in bronze age cultures, so my judgement here might be off, and they may need to be bumped up or down a level; you anons tell me what you think based on what I said. said. I should also probably do a writing/architecture section, or work that into the arts/city sizes one. (For the record, Mesoamerica had both picto and ideographic proto-writing like bronze age egypt and Mesopotamia, as well as some true written languages)
Also, I'm happy to clarify further and do my best to provide sources if you request them, just don't be a shithead and tell me to do it on like 5 things at once.
>>14350186
>>14350032
I think you have me mixed up with another anon, i'm murican
9f819f No.14350207
>>14350187
>>14350200
thanks
008ded No.14350249
>>14350206
>look they were civilized spanish were evil
Fuck you
It shows that you don't have to deal with them everyday
>>14350202
CALLATE JUDÍO
hola chewree
f13eb2 No.14350259
>>14349698
I take it this was filmed in Somalia?
292291 No.14350273
>>14350249
Piss off argie, you cant compare broke bolivians and paraguayans migrating to your country to the native american civilizations at their highest points.
baa23b No.14350275
>>14349698
>>14350259
there are several of these from south america
4eb574 No.14350278
>>14349561
>It’s SJW to say that other cultures have interesting things about them.
Sometimes I hate what /pol/ has done to this site.
008ded No.14350289
>>14350273
NANO TOKA HERMANO, YO TAMBIEN ESTOY CON LOS AZTECAS
>>14350264
hay que organizarnos chori/meadhall/
5437fd No.14350299
>>14350289
This country is beyond saving though.
008ded No.14350328
>>14350299
Siempre se puede golpear, balkanizar y deportarGroßargentinien con el sur de Brasil, la banda oriental y las provincias con más blancos, deportamos a los hermanos latinoamericanos y zurditos a las provincias dejadas fuera
fc2765 No.14350343
>>14349886
> by diseases that spread across the contient once Europeans arrived
Took a while but stopped reading there.
292291 No.14350347
>>14350343
But it is true though, most of the population of the continent died because of the deseases from europe.
292291 No.14350364
>>14350355
It even happens nowadays in the amazon, have you anything that proves otherwise other that wanting to be a contrarian?
716662 No.14350365
>>14350031
>>14349896
The Spanish really weren't as big a threat as people think; they mainly won due to diseases crippling the region and the fact that many states in the region supported and allied with the spanish, bridging the number and logistical/supply gap between them and other states in the region since the Spanish then also had actual native armies worrking with them: the spanish were litterally less then 1% of the troops that toppled the Aztecs; and even after the Aztecs fell and smallpox had inflicted black death level population losses, the Spanish were reliant on native armies either as allies or hired as mercaries to conquer the rest of the region over the next few decades. The Spanish's biggest ally, the Tlaxcala; which was a confederate republic of a few city states, even beat the spanish intially and only allied with them after sparing tthe conquistadors, since they realized they could ovethrow the Aztecs with them (the Aztecs had been assraping tlaxcala for a while up till now); and the Tlaxcala more or less manipulated the spanish into wanting to take the Aztecs down to begin with. You could argue it was less a "Spanish" conquest as it was a conituation of existing native geopolitical tensions and warring where the spanish were simply an additional acting party that was able to reap the rewards thanks to dieases wiping out their competition (90% to 95% of all natives were dead due to dieases by 1600, pic related though obviously the death tolls were exacerbated by all the instability and warring) in the aftermath due to further outbreaks over the decades.
That's not to say the technology gap wasn't a factor: Calvery and cannoons and firearms made them effective shock troops, breaking the enemy lines and disrupting them, which allowed their native allies to exploit the opening and chaos, but it's not as if the Aztecs and other states they fought were stupid, they did adapt and come up with anti calvery and anti firarm tactics. Steel armor also wasn't as big a deal as you think, since most conquistadors were poor and didn't have it and those that did often exhcnaged it for native armor due to the climate, so native weaponry was more or less as effective on them as spanish steel swords and pikes were on the native troops, the only real effective difference being that steel weapons were more durable, with the tradeooff being that if they were damaged they were much harder to repair or impossible to replace, vs native weapons were much more easily repairable and replacable on the field due to their materials, and could be much sharper, since obisidian can hold litterally single molecule edges.
Whatver gap the technological difference caused was entirely outweighed many times over by essentially an expeditionary force of 1000~ men in foreign territory they knew nothing about that was filled with established cities, armies with tens to hundreds of thousands of men (I'm not bullshitting that number, there's records of 100k-200k sized armies, even 400k+ ones, though the last ones there are probably exaggerations), and having dedicated supply lines and infrastructure in place. They would not have won without dieases crippling that and certain states deciding to help them and even the odds.
They were also aided by the fact that they were just able to insert themselves into the existing geopolitcal and social structure easily thanks to the Aztecs having previously conquerred much of the region before them: For many states, the Spanish taking over, at least intially, basically changed nothing, it just meant their tributate was being sent to the spanish rather then the Aztecs, and since the Spanish set up Mexico city on the ruins of the Aztec captial, the symbolic seat of power was still there which also aided that. Even on a domestic level inside mexico city and other core aztec cities, much of the social structure and class system was kept intact and surviving people kept their social infleunce and role, the Spanish croown and nobility just occupied the spot Aztec royalty/state officials used to. (This eventually transformed into a more disruptive and exploitative coliional system, of course)
As >>14350038 says though, play Aztez, it's exactly what you want. Expeditions conquistador is good too if you want to play as the spanish, really fantastic tactical RPG with choose your own adventure elements where there's unique/random events that change the story and are depedent on the particular crewmemebers you have/that are still alive and what their personalities are;and your decision making matters and has ripple effects.
811a0a No.14350373
>>14350365
>spics are so subhuman a mere 1000 white men bring their whole "glorious" civilization to complete ruin
716662 No.14350385
>>14350249
I never said the Spanish were evil you asshat. I don't blame them for wanting to conquer shit, every nation did, including the native ones. Now, Cortes in particular was a greedy asshole, as were a number of other conquistadors and a few other specific people that went above and beyond justt conquering and actually actively destroyed cities, books, and native art and intentionally erased culture for the sake of it, or were needlessly sadistic. But the Spanish crown itself wasn't nesscarily: They weren't even intially interested in conquering shit, and Cortes was disobeying orders by going off onto the mainland, and outright had an warrant for his arrest out as he was doing shit, at one point a second force of Spaniarrds landed to arrest him, and while Cortes went off to fight them, that's when the Aztecs repelled the spanish from the captial and Montezuma II died. Cortes was almost executed after the Aztecs were topppled and he had to write a series of letters to Charles V to justify himself to avoid execution.
So no, I don't consider The Spanish empire evil, I'd consider them at worst complacant. Many of the conquistadors (Cortes, Nuño de Guzmán, etc), however, were sadistic greedy assholes.
>>14350343
>>14350355
I'm interested in hearing what exactly you think is wrong there. Are you disputing the entire idea that diseases killed tons of native americans, or are you just disputing that the diseases spread so fast that they killed off huge numbers before europeans themselves got further into the continent to see the areas that were affected?
Or did you misunderstood me and think I was saying that ALL the native american deaths were solely due to unavoidable dieases and that I was trying to sweep the actual exploitative and genocidal shit that went on under the rug? Because if that's your issue, then I didn't mean to imply or do that at all; I was just saying there were already large death tolls and massive destablization from dieases spreading prior to actual european face to face contact with many groups. Obviously horrible shit and further deaths happened after that as well as French and English colionizers intentionally drove off native americans to colionlize shit.
That's actually one of the key differences between the Spanish and English colonizing strategies: The Spanish's eventual goal once they decided they didn't want to execute cortes and decided to follow up with what he started was that they wanted tto actually have an empire and people to rule over there, so they viewed the natives as people to coonquer/rule over and to incorporate into their empire (which is why the church actually backtracked on burning all the native books and tried to start to preserve what they could, to make it easier to convert people) vs the English whiich viewed the natives as a nusisance and they wanted to kill them or drive them out so they could just start colionies.
(Note: I know less about the colional period then I do about the precolumbian period, and I know less about what's noow the US then I do about mesoamerica, so I'm less confident of a lot of the stuff i'm saying iin this post then I was about the shit in >>14350365 or >>14350206 or >>14350162)
>>14350373
Considering the exact post you are responding to explains how that's not true i'm just gonna assume you are shitposting
d404eb No.14350390
There isn't much you can do with Native Americans unless you're adapting a story that already exists.
Think about it, you try to put in some stuff about some tribe's spiritual stuff as game mechanic or whatever and you'll get blasted by people saying you're stereotyping and insensitive and blah blah blah.
You don't do any of that and you'll be accused of white-washing.
This actually goes for any character you make that isn't a white guy so people just make white guys.
395b60 No.14350391
>>14350385
>I'm interested in hearing what exactly you think is wrong here
You're being baited, idiot
008ded No.14350397
>>14350385
>a whole lot of leyenda negra
<sbaneesh werend ebil
<bud dhei wer
811a0a No.14350400
>>14350385
>WE WUZ STRONK
No one gives a shit about your delusions of grandeur, spic.
2e45cd No.14350407
>>14349525
Cause ancient aliens meme?
657e84 No.14350410
>>14350390
There's also the issue that the NA are incredibly lawsuit happy and will go after anyone or anything if they can sniff a dollar in it
811a0a No.14350419
>>14350410
So, you're saying they are like gypsies, a dumber version of the Jews?
3427a1 No.14350421
>>14349886
Aye my man. About time someone gave the Native American Nican Tlaca folk the respeck they deserve.
d404eb No.14350443
>>14350410
>>14350419
Gotta pay for that firewater some how.
716662 No.14350447
>>14350397
Keep insisting I said things I didn't anon.
>>14350400
Not a spic, as I already mentioned, i'm murrican. If you think anything I said is wrong, specify what it is and I'll find you sources to show i'm right, or if I can't find sources, I'll say that after I fail to find any and you can be smug about it.
>>14350390
Tthis is a big part of it, probably. SJW's claim to care about diversity but then they pounce on anything that actually features "diverse" stuff because the have impossible standards. Also, they don't actually csare about adapting minorities into unique game concepts. They just shove a black or a gay person into a game and call it a day, instead of, say, actualy making games based on african mythology or where a gay relationship is actualy a key part of the game's plot, etc; which would actually be cool.
They want all the progressive diverse brownie points without actually bothering to do anything interesting with that diversity.
>>14350421
I'm not big on actual Mexiican history after the early colional period ends, but my understanding is that a lot of the Mexica indepedence/pride movements that Mexico has has actually done a fair bit of harm, in tthat the Mexican goverment and these movements generalize all the native cultures as one people and only represent them as the Mexica, to where a loot of people in Mexico, say, who are of Purepecha descent, don't even realize that their ancenstors were enemies of the mexica.
811a0a No.14350457
>>14350447
You're the same autistic wetback that spergs out in every thread remotely related to the "original" inhabitants of America about how "great" they were. You're no better than those leftist professors that masturbate to imaginary nigger empires.
292291 No.14350460
>>14350447
>in tthat the Mexican goverment and these movements generalize all the native cultures as one people and only represent them as the Mexica
Oh but thats a thing in most latin american countries, through time most native identity and culture was eliminated that way to fully integrate people into a single culture.
3fc917 No.14350479
>>14349698
>AIDS prevention in africa
>>14350421
>the olmecs
like from legends of the hidden temple?
a0b960 No.14350480
>>14350457
yes, whiteys invented 9000% of le inventions, me is whitey me is le smart
a2afa5 No.14350488
811a0a No.14350490
>>14350480
>whiteys invented 9000% of le inventions
That's the truth though.
03aa09 No.14350501
Well, I guess it was bound to happen.
008ded No.14350511
>>14350447
Yes you did faggot. You said that conquistadors were evil greedy torturer sadists.
Leyenda Negra
a0b960 No.14350517
>>14350490
>more than 100%
>i dont know basic math
these people are dumb, there is the proof
008ded No.14350519
>>14350501
>shit thread
What did you expect?
e7bf0a No.14350520
>>14350480
Reported for not even trying.
3427a1 No.14350527
>>14350447
Mexico (and many other Latin American countries) had a low percentage of Spanish language speakers at the time of their independence. It was the educational system founded after their independences that most of them learnt it. Although this "aculturization" wasn't equally successful everywhere. Still to this day, around 12% of Bolivians don't speak any Spanish at all (most of them concentrated in the southern provinces, in which Spanish is barely spoken by 50% of its inhabitants).
dcccab No.14350567
>>14350527
What the fuck do savage Mexica and other Mesoamerican cannibals have to do with Incas and Andean civilizations in that first pic?
That shit reeks of Anglo viewpoint of race and skincolor and it liberal leftist spin in recent decades. Trying to lump all the indigenous people in one group is stupid and does you the disservice just like it is stupid when it is applied to Europeans and Blacks too. It will lead you nowhere but endless whining, butthurt and strife among the population. All while your elites and (((overlords))) rob you blind out of all your riches.
b12b72 No.14350585
>>14350480
>whiteys invented 9000% of le inventions
we did though
4eb574 No.14350598
>>14350517
>Directly replying to a post
>Hurr, you’re dumb
Stop shitposting.
9533e4 No.14350630
>>14350162
>on par with bronze age cultures
They were certainly light years ahead of Iron Age Germanics, that much is obvious.
52131e No.14350656
>>14350567
Its written in english. Seems odd.
4daa05 No.14350665
>>14350421
>only complaining about Europeans
Is that because so many south of the berder are half-African mutts, I wonder?
6dbcf6 No.14350690
>>14349525
I can think of Red Dead Revolver and Gun. Both have you play as an indian or a mix in Red Dead's case going around and killing large gangs in the west.
9533e4 No.14350716
716662 No.14350742
>>14350457
In every single thread I've posted in about Mesoamerican shit, every single time my intial post is 100% on topic and isn't autistic or super in depth. The only reason it ends up going that was iis becuase inetvitably a dumbass gooes NUH UH to the one offhand remark or two I made (such as in this thread, where my first post was talking about North native americans, which is what the thread was about, and I made an offhand mention of Mesoamericans being more complex; and then somebody claimed they were actually cavemen tier and I had to make a long post explaining how it's bullshit)., which requires me to then go in depth to explain how they are wrong, and then people have susbquent questioons and I have to answer those, etc.
How about instead of bitching at me for making on topic posts that dumbass people reply to with incorrect bullshit that requires a repoonse, you bitch at those people? Oh, wait, it's because you are just as dumb as them.
>You're no better than those leftist professors that masturbate to imaginary nigger empires.
Again, if there's something you think I said that's wrong or is made up, as for a fucking source on that specific think so I know what you want proof for and i'll get you proof. Not that it should be fucking nesscary, since 99% of the shit i've stated in this thread is shit the Conquistadors themsleves talk about in their accounts or therre's direct fucking evidence for, like ruins.
I'm going to take the intiative though: Here's a source for the sanitation shit I mentioned, in addition to the image of a toliet from teotihaucan, which I already posted; and here's also an example of some of the sewage draiins/pipes present in the ruins of the main temple of the Aztec captial in mexico city,
>>14350585
>>14350490
Against my better judgement (since the thread has become a trainwreck of polfaggotry already) I'm going to say that's a simplification. Europe and Asia and the middle east are on the same landmass. Most inventions europe were the result of exchange and iteration on discoveries and inventions across those areas.
For example, europe got civilization and writing from the Mesopotamians (such as the Sumerians), since those things spread from mesopotamia to europe during the bronze age. Europe iterated on these things, and the result was the birth of greco-roman civilization, where branches of philsophy, mathmathics, and the like were invented and discovered, etc. It's a constant change of spread and refinement. So more accurately, in terms of european inventions, for most of them, it's the collaboration (and in many cases, competition) of whites, asians, and middle easterners (before the middle east went to shit). It's also worth noting that more then one person or culture can invent somethiing if it's done indepedently. Writing was indepedenty invented in 3 places, for instance: Ancient China, Mesopotamia (as mentioned) and Mesoameirca; etc; and obviously, given what I posted in the thread, Mesoamerica, as well as the Andes (which I didn't post much about) also independently invented many of the things that Eurasians did.
Subsahran Africans and Abbo's contributed basically nothing, though; at least as far as I know.
>>14350512
I already responded to this in >>14349960
>There's a few disputed findings suggesting that there might have been some proto-european crossoover to the eastern US like 20k years ago, and there's also some mostly debunked genetic evidence that there's proto-european ancestry in some native american groups; but even if those are both true, "Nattive americans" as we know them still existed as a result of proto-asians crosseing over the bering land straight from the west as well, and are responsible for the cultures you know of as native americans, mesooamericans, and andeans.
I don't get what the point of posting this is, at all. So some proto europeans crossed over before the proto-asians did. So what? They died before doing anything noteworthy. Agriculture wasn't even fucking invented yet for another 18k to 19k years *anywhere*, and another 4000 years on top of that beforre the first civilizations in mesopotama.
>>14350740
kek
c3aa82 No.14350746
>>14350740
>it's another normalfags bastardize a joke by not understanding its original implications episode
e7bf0a No.14350747
>>14350716
No, they WUZn’t. That’s the point of the image and links.
e7bf0a No.14350762
>>14350742
1. So you admit Europeans were in the Americas first.
2. Nothing I said has anything to do with the “mixing” claims, which aren’t founded in genetic evidence. NorthAm Indioes tell stories of the “moon eyed people” who lived on their land first… who they exterminated down to the last child. SouthAm Indioes talk about the blonde-haired, blue-eyed “gods” who came across the ocean and built civilization… and then went back across the ocean.
>those listed dates
>believes that agriculture wasn’t invented until 0 AD
Look, idiot, get your numbers right. I’ll assume that you meant “agriculture wasn’t invented until roughly 4000 BC”, which is the current kike narrative. It’s also patently false and proven so by the existence of cities of multiple thousands of people which existed in 11,000 BC. Agriculture has been around since DURING the last ice age.
6b5fc2 No.14350768
>>14350742
>They died before doing anything noteworthy.
They were wiped out by what we know of as modern Native Americans, outside the Euro-Injun admixture from the Viking settlers those guys are pretty much ignored the whole time.
804374 No.14350783
T. Hawk isn't even native: He's a fucking Mexican.
Also, someone fill me in because I'm afraid to scroll down. Was this a /pol/ bait thread from the beginning or is /pol/ just throwing a hissy fit?
You could tell me that /pol/ hasn't invaded this thread but that's not possible.
005ff0 No.14350786
>>14350207
>french version of miss machiko
Huh.
6856b4 No.14350794
>>14349525
>The X-Files
>its about native americans fighting aliens
e3bf2e No.14350795
>>14349927
SATANISTS N SHET
6856b4 No.14350804
Also how did a thread about huffs and chugs turn into >muh heritage
2b5b65 No.14350812
>>14349896
GOOD LUCK, NIGGER.
4eb574 No.14350814
>>14350804
Because there can be no discussion about other cultures without Commisar /pol/ reminding us about the superiority of Europeans. It gets pretty annoying
140c36 No.14350840
>>14350742
>For example, europe got civilization and writing from the Mesopotamians (such as the Sumerians)
Those people were European Schlomo. Just because the middle east is full of muds now, doesn't mean it was 4000 years ago.
3fc917 No.14350859
>>14350812
that weapon is actually pretty neat, those protrusions on either end are obsidian shards, very fucking sharp but break all the fucking time because obsidian is brittle shit, still that first hit does some serious damage, leaves razor sharp shrapnel embedded in your enemy
c54691 No.14350892
>>14350859
>Breaks after one fight.
Did they not have iron or steel? If that was the epitome of their militaristic technology, I can see why they were beaten by a pack of sailors who barely knew they even existed at the time, because those should definitely just have been ceremonial for the time.
2b5b65 No.14350896
>>14350859
I know, Jaguar Warriors were pretty cool- but I love the way they diminutize it into "Whacking Paddles".
Tickles my funny bone.
03aa09 No.14350912
>>14350892
>Did they not have iron or steel?
TL/DR? No.
That being said, one Spanish account noted how one of their heavier Obsidian weapons decapitated the horse of one Conquistador in one fell swoop. Obsidian really is that fucking sharp - they still use it for surgical tools nowadays.
6856b4 No.14350958
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
I doubt half the people in this thread have even heard of Turok
716662 No.14350959
>>14350762
>So you admit Europeans were in the Americas first.
I don't know, I haven't looked at any studies that the article points out. It might be the case, I'd need to look into it more to form an opinion on it; I don't like to judge things without making sure I've investigated it first. I don't really see what the importance of it being true or not would be, though? Like, so what?
> Nothing I said has anything to do with the “mixing” claims, which aren’t founded in genetic evidence.
Actually, there's something called the Solutrean hypothesis that notes that there's some genetic markers that native americans have that europeans also have that are allegedly exclusive to the two or something. I don't understand the science behind it that much so I've tried to noot judge it, but I know that the consensus among anthropologists is that it's bogus. IF the claims in the links rare true, then that would be supportive of the solutrean hypothsis.
That's what I was talking about.
> NorthAm Indioes ….last child
I haven't heard about that, but, again, my intrest is in mesoamerican shit, so if it's true I wouldn't know about it anyways.. I will tell you though that I'd be skeptical of the claims that this ties into the links you posted: That was 20k years ago, the idea that there would be an oral narrative stretching that far back seems sketchy to me, especially since I think we'd know from other sites if those proto-europeans that crossed over actually made widespread settlements. I think the genetic stuff I mentioned would be a far stronger bit of supporting evidence, even if the scientific community doesn't believe it.
>SouthAm….across the ocean.
I actually know about this, and I can tell you why it's incorrect/misleading: The origin of this is an Aztec legend (I say "legend", but it's likely a mix of actual history, mythologized elements, and outright propoganda on the Aztec's part) about the Toltecs (an earlier culture to the Aztecs who they viewed as their cultural ancestors but they really weren't actually related to, they were WE WUZZING themselves, which is why it'd be partly propoganda), and a particular Toltec king, Ce Acatl Topiltzin, who took the name of a god, Quetzalcoatl, and his life events and deeds eventually become intertwined with the myths about the god. This happens somewhat frequently in Mesoamerican religion. Anyways, according to this legend, Ce Acatl Topiltzin went around Mesoamerica, founding communities, including tthe Toltec captial of Tollan, and he outlawed human sacrifice, (this later got intertwined into Quetzalcoatl's myths, to where the Aztecs and other cultures wouldn't do human sacrifices to the god) and in general he was viewed as a god-king. Eventually, when the end of his life came near, he traveled out to sea and was apparently never hearrd from again, but he promised he would return one day.
So, on face value, that seems to match up with what you are saying, right? There's a few problems though: A key part of the legend/historical record is that his birth and childhood in mesoamerica are documented: March 13th of 895 AD, in the town of Tepoztlán. So he's not european. Further supporting this, is that all depictions of both him and Quetzalcoatl just as a god don't have white skin and blond hair, but actually have *dark* skin, usually a green, black, or red, with similarly impossibly colored hair, pics related. The final point, and most damning one, is that we EXPLICTLY know that friars in mexico during the early colional periood took note of this legend, and used it and other stuff associated with quetzalcoatl to paint quetzalcoatl as actually having been jesus, while painting all the other gods (who in some versions, actually banished him) as demons and devils, in an effort to make it easier to convert people. The point about him having blond hair or being bearded is the direct result of that.
>Look, idiot,….ice age.
Maybe I wasn't paying attention and posted the wrong numbers: My understanding, and what I meant to say there, is that CIVILIZATION started in Mesopotamia around 4500-4000 BC, but AGRICULTURE came 4000 years or so before that, or around 9000-8000 BC.
In case you were wondering: Agriculture came about around 4000-3000 BC in Mesoamerica, and the first urban civilization came about around 1400 BC. So in both places, there's about a 40000 year gap between agriculture and then civilization; and there's about a 3000 year gap between the first civilization and mesoamerica and the Aztecs, which is the same gap time between the Greeks and the start of civilization in eruasia, so the Aztecs being mostly bronze and iron age tier makes perfect sense and matches up with development rates in eurasia, since the greeks were a transitonary culture between the bronze and iron age.
5d5c0c No.14350978
>>14350892
Aztecs did not had access to iron or steel, only gold and silver. Due to being too soft those metals were only used in the making of ceremonial tools and jewelry.
The Incas and other South American civs on the other hand used copper extensively, fashioning maces, flails, daggers, axes, spears and halberds of it.
716662 No.14350988
>>14350783
This ties into what I said in >>14349886 about how japan doesn't have the cultural distinction between "US native americans" and "latin american native americans" that we have
>>14350840
If you have evidence to support that, I'll take a look at it with an open mind.
>>14350896
Jaguar warriors weren't even the biggest badasses in the Aztec military: There was both a "jaguar" rank in the normal miliitary, and then the jaguar warriors themselves were sort of a private guild seperate from the main military rank structure (these guilds sort of were like, say, the knights templar in europe or modern spec ops units). But in both cases, the jaguar rank and the jaguar guild WEREN'T the highest rank or most elite guild.
I'm a bit unclear what the highest normal rank is, but the most elite guild was that of the Shorn Ones, who had mohawks and were banned from taking up non-combat positions such as strategicians or commanders, and other soldiers were under orders to kill Shorn Ones with friendly fire if they ever retreated in battle.
>>14350912
>>14350892
>>14350859
It wouldn't break after a single use, I went into this in >>14277041 . Also, no, they didn't have iron or steel. As I explain in >>14350162 , they only worked/smelted soft decorative metals like gold, with the exception that they did work and smelt copper and various copper alloys; and in western mexico, such as the Purepecha empire, bronze alloys had just started to been invented like 100 or so years before the spanish (though they smelted it for aeshetic, rather then mechanical reasons), and both these coppers and bronzes were sometimes for domestic tools, like tweezers or adzes or as currency, but they didn't use them for weapons (as far as I know, there are some reports they did but i've been told they are wrong by people who know their shit even more then me) .
>That being said, one Spanish account noted how one of their heavier Obsidian weapons decapitated the horse of one Conquistador in one fell swoop.
There's also an account where an atlatl dart (pic related) apparently pierced Bernal Díaz del Castillo's breastplate, and he was only saved by tthe underpadding (Bernal Díaz del Castillo being the author of the best first hand conquistador account of the conquest; though "best" does not mean "good": we know he embellished a lot of things). This seems bullshit, since a stone tippeed dart should shatter on metal, but if you go on youtube there's videos of people trying to recreate it, and while none of them pierce a steel brreastplate, a lot leave rather large dents and gouges. I'd buy that maybe it hit the armor in a weak spot where the steel happened to be unusually weak or something. Also, accounts of native weapons scratching and denting and gouging steel armor is pretty common as well.
716662 No.14350991
>>14350978
See
>>14350988 and >>14350162
Aztecs also used copper, and their neighbors used bronze. But niether used them to the extent the Inca or other andean cultures did.
Also, the Aztecs, and Mesoamericans in general, didn't work silver AFAIK, because they didn't have access to any.
2b5b65 No.14350995
>>14350958
Motherfucker, get off your high horse.
I had the original N64 version with the EXPANSION PAK™ which ran at an abysmally low framerate. There are still people here who aren't newfags. Hell, I'm 32 so calm your elitist autism.
459f30 No.14351029
>>14350162
>>14350206
Quite impressive. If I may say so. Debunks the myth of European geographical luck, too. See, niggers? We weren’t the only human civilizations to develop to such a high standard, our friends in the west developed without communication with our people, and even surpassed us in some regards. You’ve given me a new found respect for the Natives, not that I didn’t already hold them in high regard. Thank you for this input, you have taught me a lot today.
17253c No.14351173
>>14350206
>>14350162
>>14350988
Further proof that the Spanish are sub-humans are ruin absolutely fucking everything.
6b5fc2 No.14351174
>>14351029
I'd take anything he says about anything besides Mesoamerica with a grain of salt though. Especially the part about Japs not making distinction between Indians mattering about anything, Asians can't even tell Jews or Whites apart and Whites can't tell Arabs apart.
140c36 No.14351177
>>14351029
>changing IPs to jerk yourself off
>thinking anyone will buy it
6856b4 No.14351202
>>14350995
I mean, if you read through the thread, it's full on /pol/
716662 No.14351305
>>14351029
>>14351173
It's worth noting I was specifically mostly talking about the Aztecs there, and their capital in particular. "Aztecs" is actually a complete misnomer: the 'Aztec empire" was an alliance of the city states of Tenochtitlan (which is called the captial since it had the most infleunce and it's ruler was in practice the one running everything), Texcoco, and Tlacopan, and then they ruled over many more cities as tributaries. These tributaries weren't directly ruled by the triple alliance: they simply paid annual tribute and were required to aid the triple alliance in military campaigns; the tributaries kept their indepdence as far as internal governance. Even the main triple alliance still had a great deal of indepedence from one another politically and in terms of internal governance, but they, and many of the tributariies, belonged to the same larger cultural-liinguistic group, so a lot of their culture and how they ran their cities were shared.
So, some of what I bring up wouldn't be universal: In particular, a lot of the hydraluic systems I mentioned would have been mostly unique to tenochtitlan and the cities it was connected to via the systems in the lake basin; but as I noted, the region had a long history of plumbing even before then. The sanitation systems to the exact extent I noted also would have been unique to tenochtitlan, but we know from Spanish accounts that other cities in the region, especially core aztec cities in the lake basin other then just tenochtitlan, were also very well kept and people bathed regularly. The municipal/bureaucratic systems was mostly a cultural thing across much of the region, so cities outside tenochtitlan would have also had similar bureaucratic complexities, though if it was as complex or the specifics would vary: For example, The Tlaxcalans, who the Aztecs were beating down when the spanish shoowed up, had the same sort of district system where each district would run municipal programs and systems, but Tlaxcala itself was actually a confederacy of multiple city states tthat operated like a republic, with each of the elected district leaders for each district in each memeber city being members of a collective senate
On the other hand, Texcoco had a reputation of being more cultured then tenochtitlan, with more poets, philsophers, and artisians, and having a super large royal library. The most famous Texocoan ruler, Nezahualcoyotl, was a warrior poet was revered as a sage and founded a group of philosophers knoown as the tlamatini, for instance. He also designed the dike/levee system in the lake. While I know some experts dispute how much of this sterotupe that Texcoco was more cultured then tenochtitilan is true or not (since most of it coomes from Texcocoan sources), it goes to show you that some cities might have been better then tenochtitlan in a few ways.
Anyways, other then those, most of what I mentioned should be pretty universal across mesoamerica, at least for the central vertical slice of the region: the Maya/Yucatan region to the east and western mesoamerica were pretty culturally distinct and had major differences: I know the maya didn't have nearly the same bureaucratic complexity, instead basically just having familial dynasties that ruled over cities directly; for example. I don't know nearly as much about the maya or western mexican cultures (and western ones are super, super understudied, so there's not that much info out there on them), so I prefer to avoid talking about them so I don't say shit that's wrong. The Maya also lost their preeminence (but didn't "mysteriously vaish" like pop culture makes it out to be) 600 years before the spanish showed up: The central and center west part of Mesoamerica is where most of the important shit and cutting edge stuff was going on anyways.
>>14351174
> Especially the part about Japs not making distinction between Indians
That was just my own observation when looking at games and anime and shite from japan that features native american stuff, It's not the result of any sort of actual analysis of Japanese cultural perceptions or anything.
Anyways, I'm certainly not an expert on Mesoamerica: I'm just an autist who spends a ton of time reading and looking stuff up. I'm sure I made a few mistakes, so taking what I said with a grain of salt is warranted. But I can absolutely, 100% guarantee you that I am more accurate then 99.99% of the shit you'll find online. The amount of ignorance and myths that get repeated and taken at face value is insane.
36c213 No.14351333
>>14350113
Is this an embedded pic?
>>14350202
Hispachan-tier.
>>14350480
Angry spic, take your obsidian whack paddle out, let's see if it can beat my gun.
716662 No.14351413
>>14351029
>Debunks the myth of European geographical luck, too.
I mean, I wouldn't go this far. Geography almost certainly plays a huge role in the development of cultures.
I imagine that the lack of any inland seas like the Mediterranean is a big part of why the region was so under developed in terms of maritime abilities, and the fact that they had no other somewhat isolated regions with advanced cultures to contact and trade with (the geographic barriers between them and the andes meant that any trade between them was indirect and sparse, the advanced states in both regions likely didn't know the other existed) likely limited them as well.
People like Jared Diamond witht GG&S likely overestimate geographical factors and downplay other ones, but I also think that a lot of historians and anthropologists try to downplay geographical ones, and just dance around trying to draw conclusions because… I don't know, post modernism and trying to avoid being seen as racist?
008ded No.14351475
>>14350742
>writing was mesopotamic
The writing system changed from an abjad to an alphabet. It is quite an improvement. I'm pretty convinced that there was great similarity racially between the population of both.
Ireland had an alphabet without contact.
008ded No.14351557
>>14351173
Human sacrifice
716662 No.14351703
>>14351557
Mesoamerican religion was absolutely batshit crazy and is like a serial killer's fever, there's no denying that, but the actual people being sacrificed were almost all prisoners of war captured in battle: To the Aztecs and other closely related cultures, capturing the enemy was seen as more badass then outright killing them.
Basically, when the Aztecs or another culture broke enemy lines and they scattered, instead of mopping up and killing them, (which is what happened in european and asian wars: the majority of deaths in battle weren't in formation to formation combat, it was when one side lost resolve and broken that they got chased down and killed) like in european wars, they instead attempted to capture them alive. So, it was more or less an extension of their warfare, and most of the people being gutted were people who would have just been killed in battle anyways. There are a few exceptions: Certain religious ceremonies did call for women or childern to be sacrificed, (such as a ceremony to the rain god Tlacoc, where the more you got the kid to cry the more it would rain) but it wasn't common, likely as uncommon as it would be in other ancient, eurasian cultures
Likewise, since it was an extension of their warfare, it was also "voluntary" in the sense that like how a soldier "signs up" to accept death in battle as a result of being a warrior, being captured and sacrificed was also an expected possible result. What sources we have don't suggest that to be sacrifices were uncooperative: It's actually the opposite: It was seen as honorable ad even in cases where the sacrifice victim had a chance to avoid being sacrificed, they generally refused and insisted they be killed. Take this dude, as an example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlahuicole
>Tlahuicole was regarded as the most formidable hero of his country…. He was taken prisoner by stratagem and brought to the city of Mexico; but his bravery and character had made such an impression on Moctezuma II that he ordered the captive's release… But Tlahuicole refused to profit by the monarch's generosity. He said to Montezuma that it would be infamous for him to return to his country after being conquered, and insisted on undergoing the fate of the other prisoners. Montezuma… to save his life, offered him the command of an army… to be sent to drive back the Purépechas…
>Tlahuicole accepted Moctezuma's offer, hoping to meet a glorious death…. He advanced at the head of the Mexican troops to the city Tangimoroa…cut through the Purépecha army… and defeated them several times. He returned to Mexico, laden with spoils and… a long train of captives. Moctezuma lavished fresh honors on him, but failed to persuade him to accept the… office of commander-in-chief or to return to his… country. He refused… alleging that to do the first would be treason to his country, and… the second would be a stain on his glory.
>At last Moctezuma consented to satisfy the desire of his general, and ordered him to be tied to the stone of the gladiators. He was armed in the usual fashion, and Moctezuma, with all his court, was present at the spectacle. Eight famous warriors… attacked him… and were all disabled: the ninth, however, stunned him with a blow, and he was then put to death
The gladatorial ceremoney being mentioned can be seen in pic related. Another key thing to note is that most of these religious ceremonies involved the sacrifice victim being seen as a incarnation of the god they were being sacrificed to for a period of time prior to being killed, usually living like a god with good food and drink: in the case of this ceremony: After the sacrifice victim was killed, they were skinned and their skins would be worn and priests would basically go trick or treating with them for 20 days and do mock battles throughout the city. The flaying was important because it was a ceremony to Xipe Totec, a maize god, and the flaying of skin was seen as analogus to husking corn; and he's often shown wearing flayed skins: and in this case, it's the priests wearing the skins of the victims being treated as the incarnations rather then the victims themselves
So, yeah, fucking batshit crazy stuff, but it's a mistake to think that they just massacred their own civilians or that they were killing more people then other militaristic states, since, as mentioned, almost all the victims were people who would have otherwise been killed in battle anyways. There IS some more insidious stuff about human sacrifice in aztec culture, which is how they basically used it to justify their own militarism and as a realpolitik tool, but I ran out of space so if somebody wants me to explain that (let me know) it'll have to wait
716662 No.14351773
>>14351703
Forgot to note that in that excerpt:
City of mexico = Tenochtitlan (The city was sometimes called Mexico-Tenochttitlan, which is where "Mexico" as the crurrent country name comes from)
Armed in the usual fashion is that he was given a macuahuitl with feathers instead of obsidian blades. He would have also been drugged. (As you can imagine, you weren't supposed to be able to win)
polite sage for just being an addendum
008ded No.14351932
>>14351773
Their gods required human sacrifice as worship. They had a caste of sacrifices. It wasn't POW execution.
They didn't have the wheel, used it only for toys.
dd38a9 No.14352243
>>14350365
>Europe throughout the centuries is afflicted by several pandemics coming from Asia
>still manages to avoid getting completely conquered by Asians and are able to preserve their culture
>go on to conquer the world
<Native Americans get into contact with Europeans and get infected with a few common old world deceases
<complete breakdown of civilization, cultural achievements are completely lost and they get almost completely exterminated by a handful of European Settlers
<Waaahhhh only these horrible European diseases are at fault that we lost! Without them our barley Bronze Age Cultures would have won against the Europeans and their Renaissance Technology!
Anon the story is all the same regardless if its Africa or America. Europeans show up and with their technological achievements look like fucking Astronauts compared to the Native, then some of those Native get the idea to use these "Astronauts" in their political maneuver, start a civil war to overthrow the current ruler or attack the Europeans and steal their shit and in the end the country is in ruins and the Europeans win by being the only force left that can restore order.
People have heard the disease story so often that it comes only of as the sad excuse of a bunch of petty losers, regardless to which extend it is true.
>>14350892
Negative anon, the Native Americans never left the Bronze age until they got in contact with Europeans and the US American Natives didn't even manage to enter the Bronze Age, they cold hammered copper nuggets they found on the open ground to make arrowheads.
Also most of the good shit the Native Americans did build was either abandoned or destroyed by themselves do to overpopulation or war, long before any kind of European disease affected them.
When the Europeans in the 18th century took interest in the Earth Mounts they found in North America, most Native Americans believed them to be the work of the gods or mythical ancestors.
Over all, Native American Civilizations are with the few well known exceptions Nigger tier, where they are proud to have archived the technological level of Antiquity at a point when Renaissance Europe was gaining technological advantages over the Islamic World and Asia.
232d2f No.14352307
A Red Dead style game where you play as a Cherokee set during the American Civil War would be cool. Any more Civil War games would be cool.
>be cherokee nation
>witness the greatness of the whiteman and his union
>the whiteman hates us because we're savages
>get civilized
>start speaking like he tells us
>start living like he tells us
>start worshiping like he tells us
>start dressing like he tells us
>the union still fucks us over
>the whiteman's union doesn't respect us
>the union still hates us
>but we still love the whiteman
>the whiteman starts fighting the union
>we do too
292291 No.14352376
>>14352243
You massive fuck, are you really trying to imply that 90% of the population dying within a century isnt utterly cataclismic and wouldnt cripple any society?
c79e84 No.14352377
>>14349560
>shitty by numbers call of duty knock off.
>Prey first started development in 1995
>Call of Duty 1 released 2003
How could you be actively avoiding copying something that won't exist for another 8 years?
e4298c No.14352406
Does Wanderer count as native American? South American is still American, right?
292291 No.14352437
>>14352406
Thats supposed to be south american?
I always thought he was supposed to be some steppe asian.
395b60 No.14352469
>>14352307
There won't be another civil war game in current year for a while methinks
395b60 No.14352472
>>14352469
*American Civil War
03740f No.14352537
>>14349709
>leftypol can't even do a counter-signal meme correctly
d5443d No.14352596
>>14350783
>/pol/ just throwing a hissy fit
Yeah, I'm sure the retard who thinks that his "native americans" are the masterrace who are just pretending to be a carbon copy of Gypsies that only survive because of government subsidies is a /pol/-guy.
d81529 No.14352742
>>14352596
There are different factions and tribes of native americans with varying degrees of technological achievement, moral values, and interaction with Europeans/foreigners based on those aforementioned factors. Sounds like you saying that the other anon(s) claiming that they're "master race" is a strawman when referring to the analysis of some of their civilzations that were stated to be overlooked and impressive, with the latter being admitted as such even by the conquistadors themselves. Which probably is highlighted by the natives that were first encountered by the Europeans on the coastal areas to be much more primitive compared to say, the Aztecs and Incas that they would encounter later.
Different types of Amerindians, with different types of Europeans all treating each other differently at different points in time. No one race, at least as whites and amerindians are concermed "dindunuffin" or were completely, ireedemably evil. The two traded, intermixed, and fought against or with each other in various points in time.
b12b72 No.14352768
>>14352742
> were completely, ireedemably evil
Cough.
9f0d89 No.14352780
>Hybrid Heaven
You play as a big guy Indian named Diaz. It turns out you're actually a secret service agent named Johnny, and the presidency was slowly replaced with alien changelings
911e52 No.14352791
Injuns aren't as cool as Inuits. Literally.
d867cd No.14353063
>>14349709
This is getting pretty embarassing, /leftypol/
804374 No.14353092
>>14352596
>>14352742
This is all I needed to see. Thank you.
d867cd No.14353161
>>14349896
>One of the bosses is a Spanish Knight on a Horse, but the protagonist sees it as a giant centaur-like being covered in shiny scales.
I kind of want this game now.
717a1f No.14353924
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Since this thread is now about politics there is only one thing I'd like to say.
GODS CHOSEN PEOPLES, GOYIM! BOW THE /FUCK/ DOWN.
91aeed No.14353977
>>14352537
>tfw someone posts your years old OC
d436aa No.14354051
>>14354030
Let's talk about china instead.
d672d7 No.14354067
>Is there a reason why natives end up fighting aliens all the time?
>2 games
>why are pigs portrayed in games as villains?
shut the fuck up, chibi
26ea13 No.14354088
>>14350421
>muh heritage
>muh pyramids
lmao
273fa6 No.14354100
>>14349653
Mainly because they are allowed/really don't care if you report it
Civilized world grabs you by the balls and calls you crazy if you report such things. Ask any pilot or truck driver, they get severely punished in terms of schedules if you do such a thing
273fa6 No.14354119
>>14349753
>>14349772
Gursel
A turkroach who pesters France, but he's pretty decent
273fa6 No.14354230
>>14351932
>m-muh wheel
You got schooled and sourced, and yet you still cry in butthurt agony
And by an american who can read, to boot
716662 No.14355284
>>14351932
>They had a caste of sacrifices.
Well, can post you sources to back that up? I've certainly never heard about that. The closest thing to that i've heard of is that the lowest class of "slaves" could be sacrificed for disobedience or trying to escape, but in order to be put into that class of slave you needed to have either committed a crime or have been a war prisoner to begin with.
On that note, Slavery in Aztec and closely related cultures worked quite a bit differently then slavery in europe: as I said, there's different "classes" of slaves:The "highest" class was less slavery and more indentured servitude/forced employment: Somebody "owned" you, and could sell you to others, but you still earned money for your work, had rights/could own property yourself, and your owner had a responshbility to care for you well, and you could buy your own freedom. People selling themselves into this sort of slavery just as a way to get quick cash sort of like a loan was actually not that uncommon, and then they'd just buy themselves out of it when they needed to.The lower class I mentioned was closeer to "true" slavery.
>They didn't have the wheel, used it only for toys.
They also actually used it in pottery production, and the siege towers I mentioned earlier probably had them as well: The sole mural we know they had siege towers from shows a wheel like object with spokes in them, pic related. They clearly understood the mechanical properties of wheels, since the toys are clearly meant to be rolled around and because of the siege towers, tthey just didn't use them because there were no horses, cattle, oxen, or mules to attach carts to.
>>14352243
Are you retarded? Asia is directly fucking connected to Europe. There's still some resistance and exposure they have to those diseases over time. The black death wasn't a brand new dieases, it was a new strain of something they were already exposed to, and even that killed 30% of europe.
>complete breakdown of civilization, cultural achievements are completely lost and they get almost completely exterminated by a handful of European Settlers
The post you are explaining too littterally outlines how it wasn't just "a few european settlers", but also the armies and troops of existing states in the region, and then over time epidemics continued to thin out the populations. Do you need me to link to the actual study and paper the population collapse graph is from or accounts of the spanish coonquest?
>Negative anon, the Native Americans never left the Bronze age
As was already explained in >>14350162 (You) and >>14350206 (You) ; Mesoamericans were already past bronze age ttier in a variety of ways. They absolutely were relatively primitive in terms of their use of metals, but it's possibly for a society to be relatively behind in some ways, such as metal use, and ahead in others, which they were. Another example of this, for instance, is how both Mesoamericans, and I think alsoo some Andeans (see below) had early suspension bridges, before europeans did. Pic related showing a Maya one, for instance.
>>14352406
>>14352437
Some of the visual motifs in the stonework in SOTC and last guardian and such looks vaugely precolumbian to me, moreso Andean (the region the Inca, Chimu, Moche, Sican, Wari, Tiwanku, Chavin, and other cultures that are from; I'd post aboutt the cool shit they did but i'm less knowadable about it: I doo know the Inca had even a more complex administrative/government systems then the Aztecs and had way more advanced economics, and managed to have an entirely state run economy/property rights system that wasn't a dumpster fire; and thatt the Moche had some really rad ass fucking temples and murals in them, look up Huaca de La luna; and that andean cultures in general had really advanced understanding of and use of fibers and tensile physics (hence the suspension bridges) including a writing system made of string knots, but that's about it that I know of. ) then Mesoamerican; but I think overall it's just intended to be generic geometric ancient shit.
>>14353161
The idea that they saw Horseman as centuars is a myth: The Aztecs called the spanish's horses "large deer", so they clearly understood they were separate animals.
273fa6 No.14355466
>>14354067
Pigs are constantly portrayed as villains due to semite prohibition
And recently (aka 20th century) because of Animal Farm by Orwell
716662 No.14357196
>>14354051
>>14354100
>Ask any pilot or truck driver, they get severely punished in terms of schedules if you do such a thing
Source? Why would their bosses give a shit
747337 No.14358810
273fa6 No.14359150
>>14357196
>Source?
They wouldn't write that you will get your shit pushed in if you saw yufoos
Basically they will see this as a sign of mental instability, and simply take much more care of giving you any schedule
This sounds dubious but i can give you my imaginary, anonymous personal guarantee that if you ask any truck driver, pilot and maybe sailor, 8 out of 10 will admit and some point to have seen pretty bizarre shit or known someone who did
When an airliner or document gets leaked/known for a bizarre occurrence it's mainly because A LOT of people saw it other than the official source, it was leaked by an enemy to poke fun (see: americans leaking 1976's Iran Night Chase) or because someone extracted info from a retired source
9533e4 No.14367311
>>14355284
Lame excuse. Carts are useful for transportation with or without animals. Just look at the rickshaws in Asia.
716662 No.14367328
>>14367311
You need materials that are relatively lightweight but strong to make wheelbarrows work, particularly for the wheel itself: If it's all wood, it's heavy and prone to breaking: Researchers have tried to make carts and wheelbarrows using the materials they had access tto and found that by the time you make them big enough to hold more weight then they could using back baskets, the weight of the cart/wheelbarrow itself already outweighs the cargo it can hold.
Also, Wheelbarrows weren't invented till around 0ad in china, you'd be suprised how unobvious this stuff is without the context of knowing it exists: This is why the region was so behind in metallurgy despite being so ahead in terms of sanitation and other areas; or, as you saw in the post you responded too, actually having large suspension bridges, which were unheard of in europe.
Technology isn't a tech tree in a game of civulization, isolated cultures develop in different ways.