/v/ - Video Games

Paladins and Hunters in World of Warcraft. Neither of them fill any niche with Paladins being gimped hybrids of warriors/shamans/druids and hunters are bastards because they will Need roll a Druid staff just to use it as a stat stick for the attack speed increase in order to get that much closer to a fully automatic machine gun like Tony Montana at the end of Scarface.

Melee/Unarmed builds in Fallout 1 and 2

>>14192769

Being a mage in skyrim.

>>14192988

hunters were far from useless, great for PVP and allowed for some really neat pulls for speeding through dungeons.

>>14192769

Nothing will ever out useless the evoker. It's just a shittier summoner in a game where summoners were even more useless than they normally are in the series.

>>14192988

>paladins

>useless

Only the best single target healer in the game. Add onto that the blessings.

Stealth or dodge based characters in most games. Bosses automatically detect stealth and have attacks that hit 100% of time. Similarly classes that rely on poison and/or debuffs. High level enemies are immune to poison and resist debuffs.

>>14193303

Funny how a Final Fantasy game of all things managed to not do both of those things, and in one case with a single class.

>>14193294

>competitive Pokemon

I’m sorry for your autism

>>14193294

Fuck off donphan is great you're just too stupid to sue it

>>14193303

Stealth requires good level design. Most stealth characters though are just D&D rogues without the skills or abilities. Literally just fighters with mage stats who get bonus damage on their first hit. There are rare exceptions light Dark Messiah, but even then the stealth class is half stealth perks half universal stuff, such as poison resist. Deus Ex managed to nail it if you use the prod. It even has cool little things for stealth such as blocking lasers with pepper spray.

>>14193230

I wonder why they fucked it up so badly. Archer builds were great in Demon's Souls.

healsluts

Healers are fine but traps are gay

>>14193353

Typical single player fantasy RPG:

>warrior: safest bet, the developer will have made sure the game is playable with this class, however there is also a good chance it'll be boring as fuck because they didn't develop on the combat system

>spellcaster: risky but fun, there may be same considerable balance issues as you'll probably end up being a glass cannon, however there's a good chance the developers put a lot of effort in coming up with lots of spells making the class more interesting

>ranger: risky, you don't know how effect the developer has made ranged attacks or developed the other aspects of the class, good chance it'll be a boring version of the spellcaster with the same weaknesses

>rogue: very risky, there's a good chance the developer hasn't developed the stealth system in the game and even forgot to accommodate it in many instances, you'll probably end up being a very shitty version of the warrior that relies on situational ambush bonuses to even be on the same level

>>14193379

Dark souls levels were more open, but the challenging encounters were always designed around melee. Maybe the devs didn't want you to snipe everything so they gimped archery.

>>14193433

Basically most western ARPGs

>>14193433

Sometimes they don't even go that far and just mix ranger and rogue.

>>14193467

If that's the attitude they were going to take, it makes you wonder why they bothered including it in the first place.

>>14193303

I like it when the boss battles are a sort-of puzzle. You get lore from the locals (say a swamp monster that poisons everything) and you can either brute-force your way through the monster and tank the poison damage and spam heals, or you can complete side-quests to create an antidote to the poison and learn (or infer from the witch's instructions) that it has two uses: it can make you immune to the swamp king's poison, or you can use it directly on the swamp king to almost completely nullify its abilities and make it sick.

>>14193512

To allow you to work around encounters like the snipers on Anor Lando without making them invest in Magic.

>>14193230

archery is viable even in pvp, and can do damage at longer ranges then magic as its niche

also dosnt run out of shoot as fast and you can hold arrows

>>14193303 tanking or overwhelming force based characters, the boss is going to be better at both of those then you are because it is a boss

>>14193251

You ever played with bards?

>>14193467

>Basically most western ARPGs

>Implying non-western ones don't do this

>>14193564

At least a Bard gets to chose what pathetic spell he wants to cast, one of them actually being incredibly useful against the bonus boss in the remake.

>>14193584

Most japanese ARPGs focus solely on melee. The western styled ones they make like Dragon's Dogma actually design all classes competently.

>>14193026

Once you can stagger by casting a spell with both hands, the game becomes even more boring than it already is.

I fucking swear, Skyrim's combat is so fucking bad that the only way I could enjoy the game was playing an archer and using sneak to snipe enemies from afar. The damage output was ridiculous but at least there was some kind of skill involved into sniping,

>hybrid class with dps/buffs/healing

>dps classes have better buffs and dps

>healer classes have better buffs and healing

>you're made healer anyway since healer does more dps than you

shaman had a hard life

>>14193749

More games really need a sort of synchronized timing mechanism in their combat like FF11 tried to do where even theoretically weaker damage dealers were better in many situations because their weaponskills chained or had better chaining effects. This could potentially carry over to debuff spells as well and with some work I don't see how it couldn't also be repurposed for healing and self buffs. Now I say "tried" because it usually just boiled down to using the flat out strongest weaponskills and taking whatever random chain you could get since they were all useful anyway but still.

>>14193772

A more action oriented equivalent would be the spell system in FF:CC where you could upgrade basic spells and attacks by linking together spell/attack reticules

>>14193294

>>14193348

>people think it's acceptable to use Donphan

Archers in Fire Emblem

>Can only attack from 2 spaces away

>Almost every other class in the game can use magic or throwable weapons, which have a range of 1-2 spaces

>Because of how the game works, most of your units will deal vastly more damage on the enemy's turn, as they get rushed by enemies constantly

>90% of enemies can't/won't fight archers from 2 spaces, so archers almost never get to attack in this phase

>Even if an enemy has a ranged weapon, if they're not an archer then they can always just attack the archer from 1 space away, making the archer look amazingly pathetic

In short, archers accomplish fuckall when it comes to killing enemies, and almost everyone can be a better, more versatile ranged fighter than them.

>>14193857

They're stupidly overpowered in Echoes though to the point I'm convinced they did it on purpose as a joke.

>>14193878

Proximity shot and + range made them ridiculous strong. All they needed was proximity shot for them to carve out the niche formerly occupied by mages.

>>14193745

Is actually a pretty good example of this.

So what class was it OP? You don't mention it. I would like to point out at least in Monster Hunter 4U there were no useless classes, and every class if mastered can be beyond amazing despite some nerfs or buffs to all classes or if they still are defult a bit weak.

Any more games that doesn't have any usesless classes and each one is at least worth trying and takes time to master?

>>14193950

> I would like to point out at least in Monster Hunter 4U there were no useless classes

What is gunlance and possibly hunting horn

>>14193956

I thought hunting horn was still fine from my experience and by far not useless when I used it in 4U, even when you do find the rare person that uses it online there were always pretty good. Don't know anything about gunlance. I think I remember some people used it. but just because nobody uses it doesn't mean they weren't any good. You hardly saw anyone with the bow classes despite being pretty fun.

>>14193951

>Five Mages of Cinqueleur (cinq color / 5 color lol french)

>First up is White Mage

>Its like 6 on 1, hes only like 10 levels higher this will be easy

>Doublecast meteor or ultima or whatever on first turn from HP

>hes a white mage so he'll just cure it

.oh god

>>14193974

Ranged weapons were pretty underused overall, and the bow lacked LBGs utility and HBGs damage, as well as being terrible to aim on 3DS so few people bothered.

>>14193294

Good meme

>>14193003

u wot m8? Unarmed in f2 is overpowered due to many perks geared for it, only problem is the Horrigan fight.

>>14193990

Imo they fixed the bow gun aim in 4U when I tired it out a bit but it was basically playing another game imo when you switched from a bladed weapon.

>>14194020

I was talking about the bow itself, lbg and hbg aim was fine imo, but the bow's was crap.

>>14193956

>gunlance

>useless

o i am laffin

>>14194045

>gunlance

>not useless

o i am laffin

>>14194050

>piercing damage + explosive damage + particular bullet types

>special attack that causes a fuckhuge explosion that can potential stun a monster and break pieces

>not useful

Step it up.

>>14192988

Are you posting from 2007? Spoilers: everything sucks and the nigger becomes President.

>>14194062

>stun

>>14193989

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm out of the loop for recent games or don't know anything about past games

>>14194062

>lowest damage of all weapons

>takes twice as long or more to kill the same monster

>bad for hunting as a team

>strikes actually do cutting damage and not piercing damage as lance, explosive damage is fixed and falls off hard in late g rank

>not useless

>>14194095

Oh sorry, Mr. Molijew I sure love those KO values on gunlances. Oh wait :^)

>>14193956

And hammer later in G rank because the charge blade is balanced.

Not useless per se, but Saga 3 / FFL 3 had a pretty fun class system. When you defeat monsters, they can drop "meat". There's a spectrum of what you can do, and you really do turn into particular enemies:

>Monsters can't wear items but have good resistances and don't need mana to attack, and amazing stats, but are limited in function

>Beastman can wear some items and have natural resistances and some spells/abilities

>Humans can use weapons with no penalties, learn magic etc., but have no weaknesses or resistances

>Cyborgs have shit stats, but the quality of each item slot increases certain stats on top of the other effects, eg a sword increases str, a dagger gives agi, certain accessories do this too, meaning you optimize based on secondary stats instead of the item's normal function

>Robots have no stat growth, period. You buy "pills" to augment their stats, and they can be capped very easily by grinding

>>14194147

The charge blade and the IG were OP in 4U.

>>14194115

Lucky for you the increased mobility made the GL downright BROKEN in world.

>>14194892

Charge blade was ok, maybe OP in 3+ person hunts because of the ridiculous burst.

The IG though, infinite damage, infinite mounts, extra mobility, that weapon was a fucking warcrime.

>>14194946

Yeah but it's fucking World, it's a casual game anyways

>>14193593

>>14193564

>Bards

>useless at all in FF3

In the NES version they can make enemies weaker and your party stronger freely. Not perfect cause only one of them is works on bosses but it could be worse (bosses aren't even the dangerous things in NES FF3 anyway).

In the 3D version their special lets them go 1st at the start of every round and they can do lovely things like:

-Dream Harp restores 10-19% (based off job level) of your max HP. Which end game wise will pretty much be better than a cura on everyone (or if you grind out to 9999 hp its better than Curaga). Which lets you do small patchwork as needed (cause you always go 1st) or pretty much makes soul eater from a Dark Knight be spammed (even 10% restore keeps up with the cost of soul eater cause soul eater is 20% of the current hp)

-Lamia Harp cuts 10-19% of a foe's current hp. So up 37,999 damage to Iron Giant at the start of the fight (even if it only reads 9999 the damage is greater than that). Iron Giant is a bit of an extreme example but this thing is good on touch foes or bosses in general anyway (if a boss has like 30,000 hp like a lot of normal bosses and end game foes have you are still doing good damage) if you don't need to patch up your team or don't need a shield/offense up that round. In general this is very useful on bosses anyway. It will never kill a foe but it never misses either.

-Loki Harp gives a 20-29% haste boost on your team for 2 rounds. Haste in FF3 buffs attack in general. For normal fights you can have your other 3 characters clean patches.

-Apollo Harp gives you a 20-29% general defense boost for 2 rounds. Not as good as a cura on everyone or a offense up on everyone but it does do stuff like reduce some attacks such as the final boss' from 3000 damage to 2000 damage. Its an upgrade to your 1st harp at least (Madhura)

Is there any redeeming qualities to Cavemen in nethack?

I mean I'm looking at them because I just started and it seems to be that they are just there for a challenge.

They don't even have the tourist or monk benefit where they become good later on.

>>14195644

Having an arbitrary effect based on equipped item(s) is a really neat item in older JRPGs, I dig it.

Do the bard harps activate via a "perform" job ability based on the weapon slot, or what?

>>14195733

You can equip the items freely in battle before your turns start, use sing and it will be the 1st thing that will happen that round.

Offense up and defense up stuff lasts the round you cast it and the next one then wears off. You can easily cast a buff then heal party or attack foes as needed (or use buffs for both but that isn't that needed).

Offense up (haste) and healing is very good in general cause you'll be applying it before everyone (foe or ally) can attack so there won't be any random turn problems that can come with this type of game.

Considering how your fastest healers (white mage and devout) otherwise are only packing average speed and the other healers are on average a bit slow (red mage) or are slow (sage) and the fastest classes in general (ninjas, rangers, thiefs) can only cure 500 hp with a hi potion or drop an rare elixir on 1 in a pinch the fact that you can heal before anyone can act next is always very useful.

Fast healers are a great investment team wise. The only real negative thing about Bards are they aren't the best at attacking (doing damage based off current hp is only good at the start of a long fight) and their supports need a good number of levels to be worth it vs just what simple white magic can do.

Granted Red Mages are a somewhat "uber" class in FF3 as well as long as you give them some love.

D&D monks

>>14193333(witnessed)

get it for the mercernary talent. the ability to generate ungraceful amounts of cash is nice. Or you play it to force enemies to buy your overpriced attack items at 2.5x the price.

>>14195956

This.

Even in 5E you're just a shittier version of a battle master fighter.

Also in all videogames ever- MMOs the worst in modern era.

>Character or class that focuses on debuffs

>Tough/Boss enemies immune, resistant, or the values are shitty low flat values that are worthless against anything of merit.

Why

>>14194970

Monster Hunter is a casual game series, what are you talking about?

>>14193294

>donphan

>>14196058

>debuff class

>with limited debuff slots

>and multiple other players in your group using up those slots for their mandatory setups

>>14196058

>everquest

>literally monk's only useful feature was laying on the ground pretending to be dead

>do everything necro class could do it too

>>14193719

In TF2 spies rely more on meta and knowledge of the map and resources than on the mere sneaking around. The actual job of a Spy is to stall the game for the other team by being as annoying as possible. Too bad most retards both back then and right now try to go for the pubstomping ultra stab chain when in reality Revolver and Ambassador are the real tools you should use to get on the enemy's nerves.

>>14193026

I swear, the one good thing in Oblivion that I enjoyed more than Morrowind in some ways was magic. Firstly for adding poisons, and secondly for it still having spellmaking, with some room to experiment and do cool stuff with, and break the hell out of the game.

>>14194967

You can instant super aed counter out of a guard point. This also means you can charge shield out of a guard point. The only weapons that stand a chance at competing with charge blade and iglaive are HBG and GS, and even then only with specialised sets that are largely inaccessible until late game.

>>14193353

Rogues only work in tabletop games nowadays since vidya makers are third world diversity hires and worshipers of soy.

>>14197234

>since vidya makers are third world diversity hires and worshipers of soy

you mean like how all tabletop faggots have been for the last decade?

>>14197246

Maybe if you only know retards. Stop hanging out with soyboys, faggot.

>Rune Knight/Magic Knight/Warlock

>accomplishes the same as a warrior of comparable level, except they lose 30% of their damage the moment they get muted/mana drained

>the only thing they get over warriors might be being able to swap attack elements on the fly rather than hunting down an appropiate elemental sword

>the only time you might have to attack with changing elements a wizard will do it better

>Blue Mage

>roughly half chance of being even worse than red mages in their game

>roughly half chance of being good for amusing/broken skill interactions and loopholes that will work for a week before they are patched out of pvp

>>14196895

Each spy on the team is one less medic supporting the team and building ubercharge, or one less demo/soldier pushing the line and making use of those ubercharges. Spies are only good for skial instaspawn trash servers where noobs can die 3x times more than any other class and still make a difference.

>>14193719

>Sneaking in MGO2

Fucking useless and a waste of time but dammit if it isn't fun.

>>14193294

Choice band adament Donphan can actually take out quite a few threats, and with sturdy it's guaranteed to get a few hits off

>>14198723

Spy works fine unless you're one of the shitters doing 'competitive' tf2. Even then those guys just don't know what the fuck a good spy is and can get destroyed by one regularly.

Hell a good spy in general is fucking scary, though not as cheap with the ambassador nerfed.

All of them. The class system is fucking shit for video games, it was only ever designed to make calculations simpler for people playing tabletop rpgs. Now with computers that can do all of the calculations for us, and complex ones at that, we have no need for any of those antiquated features from pen and paper roleplaying games. We can achieve greater levels of complexity than ever before, but hackfraud developers keep aping the outdated methods from dead tabletop games.

>>14196194

Not that guy, but since when does grinding make a game not casual? Also the elementary school kids play it on the train argument.

Most games that have a utility based class, whos primary role is outside of combat such as gathering, exploring, or providing some sort of bonus. Rarely these classes are almost required but most of the time they're so shit that your better off just putting in a another combat class instead.

>>14192988

>Paladins

Excellent utility via buffs, and respectable single-target healing. Prot makes for pretty decent tanking in leveling dungeons thanks to AoE capability.

>Hunters

Pets make for viable offtanks at lower levels. Can basically eat casters alive in PvP. Also, being able to dispel enrages is a plus, as is having probably the single most widely-usable CC in the game.

>>14200334

Learn to headshot then, retard.

Also the unlocked .50 sniper was stupid effective against people in vehicles. I recall sniping pilots out of choppers pretty regularly with that thing.

>>14200570

If you know how to play the class effectively, Scout is really good.

If we’re going off of player skill level making a class Useless you might as well slap Spy up there.

>pyromancers in Dark souls 1 or 3

>You start with shit stats

>there is literally no point to start out as a pyromancer besides early spell casting

>In dark 1 you require no int or faith to cast anything, so you can put points into strength, dex, vit, and end

>mostly utility buffs and slow, strong spells

>lob it like an item or its an aoe, but it's always slow

>in 3 it requires faith and int investments to use

>splitting faith and int is worthless because you lose damage on any of the regular spells and miracles you could do

>buffing yourself at the cost of health is worthless when you can just buff your weapon for free and outdo the damage output easily or at least make it worthless to be poisoning yourself as a trade off

>you will be a slightly weaker sorcerer or warrior in turn for picking this class

Pyro is only good for making specific builds or if you want to play a certain character, there's nothing interesting to do with them though; I might just be biased but I find it's much more appealing to roleplay a sorc or a cleric because they have some kind of alignment and archetype to how they look and play; Pyro just seems to be a dumb sorc or a cleric who doesn't know how use prayer.

>>14195956

I disagree, monks are the best counter to magic.

>best saving throws

>all attributes a monk requires also boosts saving throws

>cannot be disarmed

>improved evasion

>can snatch arrows once mage runs out of spells

>can chase down a fleeing mge once alll his spells are used up, even if mage boosts his own speed

>even if mage flies, can jump 100ft into the air and flying kick mage in the face to spite said mage

>only character capable of surviving said fall

>>14193294

To be fair, 99% of the Pokedex belongs here too.

>>14200649

>not completely outclassed by martial artist

monk is trash.

>>14200649

>D&D

>non-spellcaster defeating a spellcaster ever

Faggot who only plays normalfag casualised editions detected.

>>14200665

The monk was supposed to be designed to beat mages, that they can't shows that they need a buff or that spellcasters need a nerf.

>>14200363

Paradox fixes some of that by having class bonuses be unlockable as abilities. Some stack, so even if you stick with a class that has that as a passive just for being the class, you will still use it.

>>14200635

The original concept of pyro seemed more about pyros getting strength from others, particularly more powerful members of their order. They are kind of confused, because their general concept and dress seems more suited towards shaman aesthetics and archetypes.

>>14200668

>they need a buff

Thanks for proving my point. As they're printed, monks are beyond worthless.

>>14200552

I'll spell out the key point since you're probably not aware of it though: given time to let the deviation cone settle, every gun in Battlefield 2 shoots dead center of the screen on the first bullet. This is what makes it possible to snipe with anything, and in fact snipe in a more deadly manner with assault rifles than the dedicated Sniper class rifles in most scenarios.

>>14200692

I think you're exaggerating though, what could a level 10 wizard do to a level 10 monk to stop him? You're probably comparing a level 20 wizard to anything which is generally a bad idea since a level 20 spellcaster beats everything.

Funnily enough, at epic levels spellcasting is shit since everyone gets high saving throws and you have to spend feats like crazy to get more powerful spells. There are Epic spells but no DM is letting you get away with the crazy shit you could do with the terribly written rules.

>>14200713

Using only the Core spells:

>wall of stone (to get enough time to properly buff)

>haste, mage armor, shield (get AC high enough so the monk only hit on 20)

>levitate (the monk will never be able to melee you)

>solid fog (make the battlefield unsavory to the monk, since he won't be able to move properly)

Now, to defeat the monk, you can either cast ice storm (no save), or plink him away with magic missiles (no save, no attack roll).

>>14200692

They did buff the monk, it's called a swordsage from Tome of Battle. They have a better chance beating a wizard, since they can repeatedly iron heart surge out of crippling conditions.

>>14193710

They did, anon

>>14193294

to be fair the majority of pokemon in the pokedex are not OU competitive viable.

>>14200691

you only leveled it for the passive perks.

>>14200790

The extra power to black magic was nice, but it pissed me off that they missed the mark so hard on so many aspects of the game.

You couldn't be more wrong

Flurrie is a Tank, she is meant to be on the front and self-sufficient

she can attack and heal at the same time, with its natural high HP and Lip Lock.

Dodgy fog is also excellent too. Put her on front, Dodgy fog mario, Spam Lip Lock. never worry about her, Mario is save from the front and Dodges AoE/back attacks.

if anything Flurrie is what you go for after setting up all buffs with your partners.

Only fucking plebs don't use Quick Switch bagde.

Furthermore, she can attack with Lip Lock enemies wherever they are, ground, ceiling, midair, midair with spikes.

She makes Bonetail a Breeze.

>>14200801

at >>14200371

And btw, I beat Paper Mario in a no hp/fp upgrades, no power up partners, double pain on run. in this run Flurrie is what you quick switch after attacking with your partner so she tanks (you can quick switch after partner turn).

She can even tank after your partners with lower hp attacked. She's a good partner, you just don't know how to use her.

>>14200806

That's a really roundabout way of describing danger mario, one of the easiest and most broken sets to play in the game

>>14200908

>danger mario

>when you only have 10hp, 5hp post magician

I don't think you know how danger mario works. It only activates at danger mode, which is at a specific percentage. That specific percentage with 5hp is like 1 health left.

>>14200952

So you do a multibounce and kill every enemy in one turn because the game wasn't balanced for giga autists in mind. That's fine, but don't break the game using other people's sets and then try to use that as evidence that you know what you're talking about.

>>14199936

>Playing the game optimally, is being a shitter

All I have to do to counter a spy is playing with headphones, spychecking and doing a mouse flick every 8-ish seconds to peek behind me. Far easier on health and ammo than actively fighting a real class in front of me.

>Even then those guys just don't know what the fuck a good spy is and can get destroyed by one regularly.

One stabchain, then 20 minutes of nothing until everyone stops spychecking reflexively is not my idea of "regularly".

I guess a spy can also ninjacap a point once a day, that works too.

>>14202062

They're essentially the challenge/speed run class you use once you know the game like the back of your hand, with the exception of 6, 8 and 10. They're just flat out pathetic in those.

>>14202067

>imp-fucking-plying

I managed to make my healer into my main ranged damage dealer by making her learn elemental spells as my mages and archers were killed easily.

>>14202104

They can be turned useful by having them learn elemental spells (mixing skills is a whole motiff on Disgaea), but it's such a fucking chore. You can also have your skulls or mages just learn healing spells anyway and the story characters usually have healing skills so it's not like she's unique on that.

On Disgaea 1 she was specially useless since you couldn't level up by healing.

>>14202117

>archer build

I sure hope you're packing a greatbow instead of that weaksauce normal bow anon

>tfw greatbows don't stun against bosses

Atleast make it so that its only stuns when you hit the boss in the weakspot or whatever

Still i had fun with it in DS2, and its as if the lingering flame was created for archer builds to punish rollers who managed to close the gap. But on DS3, its on another level of greatness

>>14202424

Oh boy, tell me about it!

All those cool monster classes and they are all fucking useless. I still get at least one prinny in my party anyway, as a joke.

>>14202124

>On Disgaea 1 she was specially useless since you couldn't level up by healing.

That's why i decided to make her my mage in the first place, unless you have your characters ridiculously overpowered then they can be killed in 2-3 turns. my wind mage was thus neglected in favour of my healer

>>14202435

She can't learn the high level spells. You're better of with a common mage in the party too.

But correcting something… the healer becomes more useful in the late game when she becomes a buff machine, but later Disgaea titles had other classes specialized in buffs.

>>14202400

No, always Black Bow of Pharis in Dark Souls but used a Sticky Compound Longbow in Demons Souls. Greatbows are for fatasses who get hit or Hawkeye Gough.

>>14200665

>>14200649

1st Edition or earlier Monk will always beat a Magic-User of equivalent XP value up until the absolute highest levels.

>unarmed attacks inflict enough damage to almost instantly kill

>no damage on saves, half on failed saves

>movement speed almost twice that of a hasted character

Keep in mind this is in the days well before caster edition, where your spells were limited.

The main key was casting time. Unless you started on an open fucking plain, there's not many spells a magic-user can get off before the Monk closes into melee. And at that point it's gg.

>>14193333

I know exactly why it fucking blows, they massively nerfed the Merchant class because it was so fucking good in 4 Heroes of Light. Let me tell you all four things it could do.

>Finder

Get free gem, which is how you level up your classes (also make money if you don't abuse the money making minigame, which you should)

>Keeper

Get another free gem, in a game where there's eventually level scaling. Seriously These two moves are invaluable

>Ransom

Every time the character is struck with an attack, pay a ransom instead of taking damage.

>Money Talks

Inflict damage in proportion to the amount of money the player has; it costs 1,000 gil to use, and its damage is equal to 1% of player's current gil. (Important note, there is no damage cap on this)

Remember that money making minigame I mentioned? Do that, and you can steamroll everything including the Adventurer bonus boss.

>>14193333

>>14203060

Merchant was still pretty useful in Bravely Default because of Low Leverage cutting all the damage you take and the costs of skills in half. (If you're playing right you do over 2x the damage cap anyway so cutting your damage in half doesn't matter.)

High Leverage was pretty useful for steamrolling random encounters before you get your wombo combos set up, too. I used one the whole game mostly just for those two skills.

"Useless class" in Bravely Default mostly means anything that uses BP as a resource, like Dragoon or Templar. Yeah, I could spend three turns to do whatever the hell it is that Templar actually does, or I could do 3x9999 damage to all enemies with Dark Knight.

>>14203141

I was going to counter your argument with a note that it's really easy to turn yourself into an infinite BP engine, but yeah if a standard move gets you 9999 damage anyway then what's the fucking point of any move that does take BP. Only the support moves are worthwhile then, like the Salve Maker's Widen Area (especially if you have a debug Elixir Mammon).

>>14198723

You sound like someone who never made the entire enemy team switch to pyro. You sound like someone who has never been the sole reason time and time again that your team has won.

>>14203169

It's still pretty fucking bad against pretty much any boss. Speaking of which, Hans is gay now. He can outrun anyone in the game except perhaps for zerker (which used to be underpowered; now that shit is insanely OP and I say that as a zerker player), which totally removes any skill you have. You should be able to solo a boss if you have the skill and split second decisions of when to run, reload, etc., but Hans makes that impossible because there is simply no way to avoid being hit by him other than finding a map geometry exploit.

>>14193911

Until you inevitably notice you're just better of sneaking and popping headshots and kiting the enemies around tables since the melee combat feels even more… floaty or simply off than it did in Oblivion and you just want to get that fucking Draugr deathlord done allready.

Paladins

>can't heal like a healer

>can't dps like a rogue

>can't tank like a warrior

Why even waste a party slot with someone who won't do the work right

>>14203444

I've never played anything where this was the case outside of shitty D&D games.

>>14203444

>can't heal like a healer

>can't dps like a rogue

>can't tank like a warrior

I usually find in most games with paladins, that paladins are the better dedicated tanks while warriors are more the DPS/tanking middle-man

>>14204840

I've seen paladins be better at taking damage but sucking ass and generating aggro and I've also seen the opposite. Very rarely are they shit and remain that way especially if it's an online game.

>>14202645

Maybe there's a way to buff 3.5e monks with minor additions.

>dispel magic punch that uses the stunning fist attempts, free at level 8

>get SR earlier, allowing monks to prevent damage from magic missile sometimes

>free freedom of movement at level 20

>>14204989

You have no idea, I've got ideas to be able to balance divine magic too.

>Clerics now have low base attack bonus

>Druids abilities are based off what animal companion they have

>Druids with no companion are Grove druids who have medium bab and level 6 spells, and tree based abilities

>Druids with powerful animal companions like a bear get high bab, paladin spellcasting and special abilities based off of the companion. Bear for example gets barbarian rage.

>Druids with weak companions like a mouse will get low bab and full level 9 casting.

>>14205070

>Balancing divine magic

>The least broken magic out of divine, regular magic and psionics

Come on anon.

>>14203444

Only a paladin can purge heretics and unholy creatures in the name of God though

>>14193333

Wasn't there the Big Pharma strategy that made the Jew a really useful class?

>>14205149

Unless some faggot ass minmax cleric steals your kills.

>>14205149

And only a paladin can be such a meme class.

>>14203141

Dark Knight + Blood Blade's Drain. + Rage + anything that restores BP or enhances attacks.

A total of five attacks per shot, takes one turn to set up, you'll restore all your health, and you can do it with 2 to 3 characters while the last one runs support, or ALL characters if you vary your sub-classes.

20 attacks per turn, 9999 each, per BP, for a max of 80 attacks total with max brave actions.

Once you figure out how to break the game it becomes exceedingly boring, and the sequal is just as bad about this but in that case you actually have to vary your class setup.

>>14193433

This is so true of WRPGs it hurts.

>>14200635

on that note

>Magic-users at all in Dark Souls 3

It doesn't help that in the DLCs everything has fuckhuge magic resistance. I went with a Moonlight Greatsword build with utility spells and was doing assloads of damage with the sword alone, but because element damage is situational for some godawful reason there's tons of bosses that resist it in the DLC, had to switch to a strength Black Knight build just to do over 100 damage to bosses in the Ringed City, i was rather pissed because I was literally doing 1/8th of bosses' health meter with a basic guts sword buffed with lightning pine, attacking at the same speed as well.

Dark Souls 3 is fucked up really bad, DS2 despite the hitbox problems and glitches that weren't an issue when I played had loads of builds you could go for that all ended up doing things well in their niche.

warriors had fuckhuge swords and fuckhuge damage, Bandit types used Bleed to go nuts, and mages had actual useful spells they could dominate with. Literally every decision made in dark souls 3 was the wrong thing to do.

>>14204989

Just use everything with psionics and give it to all classes, it balances itself out pretty well.

>>14205123

So that's why Clerics and Druids are considered the most OP classes in the game. :^)

Psionics is more balanced than you think, most people don't read the rules correctly and let people get away with dumb shit for psionics.

On the other hand, not much can fix arcane magic.

>>14203210

Well, playing against bads who need to do exactly that gets boring, so I can't really remember the last time it happened.

>Replies to someone he wasn't even talking to a day later after his post, with nothing but an insult

You sound like an insecure projecting faggot in need of (you)s.

>>14193026

the best part is how all the ai mages have access to the same spells but they do more damage than yours

I've pretty much never really liked any magic class in any game ever save for Magicka and some action-based mage games, because really the only reason anyone cares about them is because they do more damage than archers/physical ranged classes.

It has less to do with being useless and more of the fact that you can't really do anything interesting with them. You just cast fireball until you level up enough to cast Super Fireball and then you level up all the way you can cast OP Fireball.

every class save for striker in spiral knights pvp (do people here even know about this game though)

>>14200635

are you retarded? pyro in 1 is the usual starting class because it has the stats to use whatever weapon lying around, can huck fireballs for mondo damage, and most importantly is the most efficient start for almost every build

in 3 you dont "lose" damage on your normal spells for going dex faith, in fact the meta right now is to run around with dark infused weapons at 30/30 or 40/40 because its just way more damage hen single stat infusion for the downside of…. nothing, dark/pyro scaling is so good that people who are not even casters have dark stats

The only class that matters is raw pure damage dealers.

The faster you kill your enemy, the less damage you will take. No need to fuck around with gimmicks or prolong the fight.

Let's see

>Archers in FFT

>Morphers and most of the Moogle classes safe for Gunslingers, Animist and Black Mage in FFTA

Anything else I'm missing?

>>14202067

Yeah but you can give them the "Pregnant" personality type and make them blue

>>14227535

> Morphers

Those guys are game breaking but sort of a one trick pony. Capture a dragon, overdose him on elixirs (not that costly), and you've got a morph who'll be hitting 500 damage elemental breaths.

They have one of the highest speed growths in the game if I recall correctly.

> Moogle BM

Moogles make the worst black mages which is why people don't like Montblanc much.

> Animist

Jack of all trades, mediocre at best.

> Gunslinger

As some anon pointed out, they can use long range Ultima. Also they've got Stop Shot which is pretty good on its own.

As for the other classes, Juggler has smile toss which is pretty decent.

>>14193997

How so? Crit piercing kick in the groins and then you start working on his eyes. Alternatively mega power fists.

>>14194087

FFTA2 featured a series of quests where you took on members from a very powerful clan as challenges. The clan of the Five Colors. They grew so powerful they want to find worthy opponents.

It's 6 quests in total, each one unlocked after you beat the previous one. The first 5 quests are a 5 on 1 fight but keep in mind you unlock the first really early on. I think before you get to level 10 and there is no level requisite for doing them

First you're up against Rouge, their level 33 Red Mage/Elementalist.

Next, you're up against Blue, their level 44 Dual Wielding Blue Mage/Seer

Next, you're up against Vert, their leve 55 Green Mage

Next, you're up against Noir, their level 66 Dual Wielding Black Mage

Next, you're up against Blanc, their level 77 White Mage/Sage

Their white mage has a perk, a skill he should not be able to learn that lets him cast using his HP instead of his MP. This allows him to cast his most powerful spells early on (In FFTA2 you start the fights at 0 MP and regen 10/20 per turn). It can be devastating if you're not prepared.

When you beat those five quests, the clan recognizes you as a worthy oponent and challenge you to a 5 on 5 fight. All of them are now level 99.

>>14227217

Completely wrong in almost any team based game. Try being a heavy without a medic and see how hard it is not to get trashed.

>>14230897

Steve Buscemi doesn't translate well to 3d anime style.

>>14195644

Pretty nice.

I just always fill my party with four Black Belts/Monks in the NES version, they just murder everything on sight and have a crapton of HPs.

>Golden Sun: Dark Dawn

>Rief can use water classes to heal, sort of like Mia from 1-2

>shit melee, just like Mia, in a game where melee is the best type of damage

>However you get Amiti soon afterwards, who heals just as well and can also use light blades to attack and is far sexier

Rief was perma benched in my first and only playthrough of the game

>NetMonster

>cat monster type has high agility and low strength

>pretty much only gets strength moves

>0 damage everywhere because of how defense works

I have never been able to make a cat monster that does not suck

>FF1 NES

>the INT bug makes the stat have no effect on spell damage

>it's easier to just throw a mage staff/gauntlets at any class and have them use infinite free level 2 spells

>even red mage has the good level 3 spells minus nuke and haste/temper

>therefore the black mage is the worst at everything