7b37d6 No.13906235
How can the 3D gameplay of Sonic be fixed?
Without slowing down
DMD Mode: No 'LOL just go back to 2D again! XDXDXD'
cfac27 No.13906272
Make Sonic Heroes but open ended like Mario 64 and the characters slower.
31dc1c No.13906273
>>13906235
>How can the 3D gameplay of Sonic be fixed?
Make it like the 3D gameplay of Mario.
7811c7 No.13906292
>How can the 3D gameplay of Sonic be fixed?
You can't fix what is inherently rotten to the core
Making a 3D Sonic decent would essentially mean making it not-Sonic
e792fb No.13906295
>>13906282
Make this faster and you're golden
f283fb No.13906298
716b47 No.13906310
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13906282
/thread
but honestly the Sonic Islands physics is superior
7e025f No.13906311
Boost is fine they just need to make better designed levels and not tack on other types of gameplay
661570 No.13906313
4794c4 No.13906316
Have actually good physics
1cc071 No.13906341
Take the non-shitty level approach from Sonic Adventure, i.e. design that isn't linear corridors for Sonic to effortlessly speed through. Make bosses not easy pieces of shit. Just like make good game. Sonic is not a GO FAST 24/7 LOL game, it's supposed to have a heavy handful of slower platforming areas.
65952d No.13906345
>>13906282
>make it big and empty and like a test level in a game
no lets not do that
716b47 No.13906356
>>13906311
>make better level design
this is true, but it also true of Lost Words if they removed the run button. However, what would be better is if they actually got the momentum based physics right and actually designed a stage around that.
>>13906345
>a prof of consent to demonstrate a physics engine = finished game
(you) are retarded
65952d No.13906374
>>13906356
>reveal trailer.mp4
your game just doesn't look very good
7f933d No.13906384
>>13906345
>Empty
That's the point. Enemies just don't work in fast paced games unless they're as fast as you are. And having swarms of enemies is the worst thing a Sonic game can do. (See: Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed and Forces) All Utopia needs is stellar level design with obstacles and shortcuts everywhere to be fun.
>>13906374
Oh you're just a shitposting retard, nevermind.
e792fb No.13906395
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13906345
>empty
that's exactly what sanic people want.
65952d No.13906398
>>13906384
>reveal trailer
you can't change what the creators decided to call it
>That's the point. Enemies just don't work in fast paced games unless they're as fast as you are.
its not the enemies that are the problem and I didn't say they were
>>13906395
funny how all the actions is in tight spaces with simple obstacles
a8959c No.13906412
>>13906235
Don't fixate too much on speed, just controlling and maneuvering it. Something like this:
>>13906282
716b47 No.13906413
>>13906398
>hey guys do I fit in if I act like a contentious contrarian?
no
827c62 No.13906414
They just could let certain enemies operate in groups of up to 5.
fab117 No.13906416
>>13906235
Sonic Adventure gameplay in Sonic Generations stage size and nonlinearity.
7f933d No.13906425
>>13906398
>Devs want to reveal their tech demo
>Calling it a reveal trailer somehow makes it a full game
Retard.
>its not the enemies that are the problem and I didn't say they were
Then what the fuck were you referring to? Utopia has obstacles, just spread out. That's why I said all it would need to stay fun is good level design. The physics are there, the visuals are there. All that's missing is one piece of the puzzle. Except not really because what was shown is good and only has the flaw of being too spaced out. Which is fine for a fucking tech demo.
65952d No.13906438
>>13906413
is this normally how you take disagreement? They called it a reveal trailer, it's revealing how bad the level design is. Maybe it'll finally be the good sonic fan game you've been waiting for
you might wanna lube up cuz its gonna get rougher
>>13906425
>>Devs want to reveal their tech demo
>tech demo
it says early demo, do you like to make up things in your head?
> That's why I said all it would need to stay fun is good level design
they can make sonic slopes and loops, not an impressive tell of their level design skills
>All that's missing is one piece of the puzzle
a piece that's like 80% of the entire formula
why are you getting so defensive over someone saying their early demo doesn't look very good
6a2590 No.13906450
>>13906341
I would say the Sonic/Shadow physics from Adventure 2 plus the hub worlds form Adventure 1 and 06.
Despised being an unfinished mess, I still like the idea's in 06, with all the Side missions, upgrades you can buy, and having 9 different playable characters that all get to play action stages normally. Though the extra playable characters in 06 were lacking in move set.
Boost Sonic just needs levels less 2D.
6b691a No.13906455
They should just ditch sonic completely and come up with a character more suitable for 3D action.
e792fb No.13906468
65952d No.13906476
>>13906455
we need a burning rangers 2
7b37d6 No.13906477
>>13906282
>lock-on
There must be another way
7f933d No.13906480
>>13906438
I'm not arguing semantics with you.
>a piece that's like 80% of the entire formula
Except it already has everything needed to be fun. Just needs to be scaled down and have more obstacles placed.
>why are you getting so defensive over someone saying their early demo doesn't look very good
Because you're wrong and this is /v/.
>>13906450
Unleashed had the best hub worlds. Not tiny like SA1 but not a sprawling mess like 06. Plus the NPC's weren't uncanny and were actually enjoyable.
65952d No.13906494
>>13906480
>Except it already has everything needed to be fun. Just needs to be scaled down and have more obstacles placed.
no, it has everything needed to be novel. It needs good level design to be fun. You'll be entertained for 10 minutes and retire the demo to your "good things sonic fans have done" folder to be forgotten about
71a390 No.13906496
You can fix 3D Sonic by hiring competent and passionate fans. Imagine a 3D Sonic game made by a team like Sonic Mania's.
a17eff No.13906502
Have the design concept of speed as a reward for good platforming. Knowing the rhythm of when to speed up and slow down to avoid obstacles is something I've yet to see Sonic Team succeed.
At full running speed Sonic controls like a car where you need to drift and break. Also at fast speeds you can run on almost any flat surface no matter orientation until you lose momentum. At "jogging" speed Sonic controls like any 3D platformer. It's a simple concept really that can work in clustered open environments designed like a road map with spaces in between as slower obstacles. You can have fun racing on a road around the thing, or you can slow down, short hop, homing attack across the obstacles for a short cut then spin dash up a ramp across half the map.
As for Sonic regaining monentum have air-dashing and drop dashing for forward momentum. But also have a u-turn move where Sonic can hard break at max speed, turn around, and aim where you want to speed off to. Also bring rolling back as a mechanic that grants you a little protection against ground enemies and obstacles but you sacrifice momentum control until you jump back up.
Element shields can work in 3D even with their special moves. Air-dashing with flame acts as a fireball boost engulfing enemies around you in a vortex of fiery death. Bubble makes splashes on the ground that pushes enemies away at the expense of replacing your ground kick. Electric is double jump, but super useful for casually collecting rings when zipping around high speed. Vanilla shield gives Sonic his "splash" attack from Sonic 3 in air. Also increases the threat range while spin dashing in place.
Also at any time you can "burst" your shield for a high risk and high reward screen clearing AoE attack and "fuck you egghead" moments by spin-dashing then "jumping" (spin dash/air dash is a deticated button this time). The bursts will also be used for puzzles to get into special stages and shortcuts.
Controls are a stick to move, a stick for camera, a trigger to reset camera, a trigger to break/stomp/crouch, a jump button which doubles as homing attack and you can hold to drop dash, a forward dash/kick button that doubles as spin dash while crouching and with break you can u-turn (otherwise boost), and a roll button that puts Sonic at mercy of slopes and tubes for pinball action.
4794c4 No.13906505
>>13906282
>can uncurl at any point
It's shit
65952d No.13906508
>>13906496
I'll be honest I don't see much potential in hiring fans to make 3d sonic good. sonic mania had a good template to go off of but 3d sonic fans aren't left with much. The entire formula needs to be reworked into something new.
716b47 No.13906533
>>13906438
>A tech demo for a physic engine
>representative how a finish game would play
are you just pretending to be retarded? Do you honestly lack enough cognition to imagine how these physics (or Sonic Islands physics) could work in a fleshed out game with a more focused level design and proper enemies? This is your last (you), enjoy being filtered faggot.
653ab7 No.13906548
>>13906235
Add rolling physics and make large levels with multiple paths. Have playable characters other than just Sonic, but don't be like Adventure and make the game completely different for all of them. Basically make a 3D classic game.
65952d No.13906551
>>13906533
how illiterate are you? it says early demo, not tech demo
>enjoy being filtered faggot.
I'll miss yuo dont go
7f933d No.13906565
>>13906494
Except not. Since I played the demo when it first came out I went back to it a good 5 or 6 times. It's that fun to just run around without any limitations and trying to reach the highest points or most interesting locations. Have you tried it?
>>13906505
>He never watched the CD into or the OVA
>>13906508
see
>>13906282 or >>13906310
>>13906551
>muh semantics
At least your taste in smut is good.
4794c4 No.13906606
>>13906565
>making gameplay decisions based on animated movies
The point of the rolling mechanic is that you trade control for speed and attack power but being able to un-roll whenever you want diminishes the importance of knowing when to roll and when not to roll
It's shit
65952d No.13906620
>>13906565
>I played the demo when it first came out I went back to it a good 5 or 6 times
sounds like you're easily entertained, although i once beat crysis so i can't say im not either at times. I've learned to value my time more and be more interested in trying new things since then
>muh semantics
its just ironic being called retarded by people who can't read
>>13906606
this is a good argument and it is true. the problem is I don't think it can be effectively translated into a 3d space, I think in order to make a 3d sonic game that plays well you need to change the formula in pretty drastic ways
a17eff No.13906641
>>13906606
But in 2D Sonic I can unroll just by jumping and not press down again. Maybe have that to unroll.
5b3e2f No.13906681
Wasn't 3D sonic gameplay already perfected in Crash Bandicoot?
7f933d No.13906704
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13906606
>The point of the rolling mechanic is that you trade control for speed and attack power
It was never in any way more difficult to control sonic when rolling though. I don't understand what you're getting at here.
>sounds like you're easily entertained
I fucking wish I was. It's extremely difficult for me to keep interesting in/find genuine joy in most things these days. Maybe I keep going back to Utopia because its emptiness and simplicity is perfect for fucking around.
>>13906681
Pepsiman is the best Sonic game.
65952d No.13906732
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13906704
muscle march is also a good sonic game
653ab7 No.13906746
>>13906606
>The point of the rolling mechanic is that you trade control for speed and attack power
The point is that you gain speed when you roll down hills and lose speed when you roll any other time. Considering most downward slopes in Sonic lead to flat ground or an incline, giving the player the ability to unroll while on the ground helps keep the pace up.
ca674d No.13907026
Forget everything that has been done up until now, go back the original 2D games, and try to capture what made them great in a 3D space. It's still early days for 3D fangames, but they're already closer to capturing the 2D Sonic feel than Sega ever was, and that's quite sad.
One thing I think they should go for, that no one ever seems to bring up, is openness. If you think about it, 2D Sonic was one of the more open platformers of it's time. There should always be multiple paths to take, and hidden treasures to find. Maybe don't go full Mario 64, but find a nice medium. Sonic Utopia could be looked to as a basic groundwork.
dfebcb No.13907055
>>13906235
>Bring back momentum based physics
>Which leads to more platforms with slopes.
>DON'T MAKE LOOPS A SCRIPTED SEQUENCE. No dash pads before the loop. Sonic should go over or through them through his own speed.
>Better yet don't depend too much on dash pads at all. I hate it when before the Boost games, the game plays itself. Sonic 06 (specifically Flame Core was very bad at this. Where it was mostly autorun through a speed section, hit some enemies go to the next room, few obstacles and then another autorun.
>Make the 3D controls similar to Sonic Adventure. That's where he felt the most perfect in exploring in 3D.
>Boost should be more of a bonus instead of something essential. But you recharge only you rev up in a spin dash and after you dash and depending on your speed and how long you keep your momentum, the boost can act as an instant dash that helps you regain speed. And if you run out of the boost energy, or if you're holding the brake button while pressing the boost button, you would simply dash a la Megaman X and it would help you get a good running start.
This one I feel would help a lot for Sonic.
>Make a brake button similar to a racing game. That way newbies that never played a Sonic game and not used to the faster pace can go on their own pace and it makes platforming less stressful for a newcomer. I know you might say make a speed button like Mario, but I thought Sonic's way of gaining speed and going fast was more organic. Plus it would be annoying to just hold one button to run around and explore when you can just occasionally press a button to stop or to jump with more precision. And also the brake button can be used to pull off drifts.
All of this together would be my dream 3D Sonic game.
6d2851 No.13907098
>>13907055
just put a two speed gearbox into sonic if you want muh gay brakes
b83934 No.13907145
>>13907055
Brakes are good, Sonic has been depicted as being capable of stopping on a dime or at least rapidly losing speed at will on several occasions. I wouldn't want it in an Adventure-style game, just in Unleashed-style games.
a17eff No.13907161
6d2851 No.13907170
>>13907161
then bring back the multiple levels from shadow the hedgehog
4b7125 No.13907222
>>13906345
>big and empty
>Lets not do that
No, lets do exactly that. I want a giant obstacle course with multiple forking paths where I can play with the character's physics and use enemies as a means of getting to where I need to go.
a17eff No.13907239
>>13907170
Maybe if they were interconected into zones as part of the level itself. And bosses could be in intersecting zones as locks. If this is a more open world Sonic we could bring back Flickies as a side mission. And Chao.
3adb29 No.13909254
>>13907222
No, you weird faggot. You sound like those kids who keep spouting the boost meme unironically.
4794c4 No.13909915
>>13909254
Sonic Utopia's level might work pretty well with boost because there are so many gigantic planes of flat ground. I want that now, just to see how it would play.
03aca8 No.13909954
>>13906310
This does feel more natural with the direction they're going in, but also feels more unfinished. I'll keep an eye on this one. The controls seem to be tighter than utopia's, which is closer to what I'd like as the classic ones did have that as well, just with physics to give it a little push.
03aca8 No.13909969
>>13909915
Look up "Aero Garden"
2cbbb4 No.13909970
>>13906345
>Like a test level in a game
It is a test level retard
03aca8 No.13909983
>>13909970
Do you want to be the little girl?
>>13906384
Unleashed did swarms of enemies right though, if you're talking strictly daytime sections.
89a346 No.13910017
>>13906282
This is the only way to implement both a sense of speed and freedom of movement. Just make the environment a bit more natural looking so it doesn't appear as an empty sandbox.
b83934 No.13910018
>>13909969
Why are you recommending he grow cannabis? If you're suggesting he's high, he probably already does.
03aca8 No.13910033
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13910018
No, you cute little dummy. Here.
3b3aa4 No.13910065
>>13910033
fuck that looks awful
4794c4 No.13910081
>>13910033
I guess. That wasn't really what I meant, though
2a3801 No.13910211
>>13906235
Add acceleration, remove boost.
124422 No.13910994
>implying sonic was ever good
123e58 No.13911310
Divide the franchise.
Sonic World:
>Acceleration based gameplay.
No boost.
Learning how to control and maintain speed is crucial. Levels take time to master but are extremely rewarding when done so.
Large spaces with a focus on platforming (fewer enemies, more obstacles that can put you onto slower paths or ruin your speed).
Metal Sonic World:
>Stop-and-go gameplay.
Focuses on using and abusing boost.
Movement speed is typically moving at boost speed, slowing down only for turns or enclosed spaces.
Long straight forward areas with obstacles to aim for or dodge. Sharp turns segment the level, with "corners" providing a break where combat, puzzles, or precision platforming can take place.
More of a focus on aerial control and movement.
a48dd7 No.13911341
>>13906282
>Tony Hawk Pro Skater: Sonic The Hedgehog Edition
I actually WHOAAAH'd when he ran through that looping with the behind-the-player camera
a48dd7 No.13911355
>>13910033
The only other way I imagine 3D Sonic games, is for them to be something like Space Harrier or Tempest where you're running down a tube evading incoming hazards, jumping from lane to lane using boost pads once gaps come up, with the center of gravity being the center of the tube, which I guess would rather expand on Boost Sonic games barely having any lanes to alternate between, not like the GOTTA GO FAST sections in those games aren't already straight tubes to begin with..
7b338b No.13911849
>>13906282
>>13906345
Sonic Robo Blast is much better than this, but this is a good start.
>>13906235
Take the physics and speed from Adventure 2, the handling from 1 so you have better turning and aerial control, modify the level design to be filled with very large platforms and open spaces when you need to do platforming and tight corridors a la obstacle course when you just want things to be fast (think of the G.U.N. Truck part but with better execution), remove puzzles entirely, make the combat be part of the platforming instead of a random obstacle to avoid, remove all the gay dashing shit, port that shining teleports behind you ring move to another goddamn button instead of having B be the catch-all for non jumping movements, make it possible to choose whether you want Sonic to jog or run (so you can go into platforming sections more easily, otherwise either the running or platforming will suffer), remove the need for 2.5D forced stages, add Super fucking Sonic as an unlockable instead of LIVE AND LEARN HANGING ON THE EDGE OF TOMORROW final boss that is piss easy as it is anticlimatic, remove additional gameplay modes by forcing friends to be just line in Sonic 2-3-&K as in same style different stats and moves and paths, add the mission mode from Sonic Adventure 2 but avoid having the player have to guess where the next obstacle is or learning by dying, add more than just three enemy types, remove the electric shield as it just confuses the hell out of people by removing rings which are supposed to lead the way for the player and add some other speed or jump oriented item like the flame shield, add checkpoints only before platforming sections, keep the final scoring system tied to 40% time, 30% rings and 30% score (instead of it being 10% time, 70% rings and 20% score), make bosses that only use one between platforming and running instead of having to rely on the homing attack for even the silliest of enemies and keep the characters' mouths shut on non-mainline or 1st mission playthroughs.
7b338b No.13911857
>>13911849
Oh yeah also do not fucking force the player to stay on rails. Not the obstacle "rails", rather don't force the player to watch a setpiece without any interaction, Sonic 06 is infamous for killing you in scripted events because you can't move away from danger.
d00ce0 No.13912055
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13906282
This is really all I want except more open, like the Sonic OVA.
3adb29 No.13912361
>>13909915
The solution is to nuke the flat planes, not add nitro.
ca674d No.13912779
>>13911341
I was watching a video of Skate the other day, and it occurred to me what a good basis for a Sonic game the skating genre could make. A 3D Sonic level should feel like a skate park. Add some robots to kill, and some death pits, and you're in there.
b88603 No.13912908
>>13906282
>no sense of a goal
>"lmao just run wherever you want without repercussions, no need to input anything besides pushing the stick forward because you'll run up obsticles!"
>enemies are slower than you and don't even pose a threat
>people in this thread are eating this, and other shitty tech demos like >>13906316, shit up
4c72d5 No.13913028
>>13912908
>people in this thread are eating this, and other shitty tech demos like >>13906316, shit up
>tech demos
No shit they are tech demos. Now imagine if someone actually took them and built a game around either of those concepts.
b88603 No.13913035
>>13913028
Except I'm not shitting on them for being tech demos I'm shitting on them because they're bad conceptually. It doesn't matter if these tech demos get a game built around them because their core concepts are shit. What's the point of playing a game if the only thing you need to do is push your stick forward?
3aeaad No.13913041
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
don't mind me just stopping by with best dev
4c72d5 No.13913097
>>13913035
>What's the point of playing a game if the only thing you need to do is push your stick forward?
Then we get into whether Sonic should even be in 3D at all or if so why wouldn't you make it something like SA2. Thing is that a lot Sonic fans want to be able to run around in a wide open world. I don't know personally whether it would make a good game or not but I'd still like to see the attempt. I mean it's not like they haven't experimented in every other way with 3D Sonic games.
185d39 No.13913119
>>13906235
>without slowing it down
Why is this a stipulation? You're crazy if you think old Sonic games were fast.
0fdae0 No.13913198
Bring back a lot of the original concepts of the original games. You know, building momentum, using that to progress and explore. Rolling as a way go gain more speed but at the cost of control. Actual decent physics to sell the momentum, I know that's hard to do in 3D but Sega is doing pretty well for themselves at this point, they can afford it. Maybe supplement Sonic's moveset with some parkour options, since we're in 3D now there's a whole extra axis to explore and he needs some movement options to stand out against Tails & Knuckles (in future games potentially). Most importantly, don't fuck up the level design. No Marble Zone boring as fuck platforming, and probably not CD/Chaotix style insane sprawling levels. The Zone should be a puzzle for the player to solve with their skill at keeping momentum, and should be rewarded for doing cool things.
18f291 No.13913216
>>13907055
>And also the brake button can be used to pull off drifts.
Add some bonus drift stages and it's gold.
7c4027 No.13913225
>>13912908
>no need to input anything besides pushing the stick forward
nigger, that's the opposite of it.
You must be getting this confused with all these official games where sonic's just running on a set path.
7b37d6 No.13913256
>>13912950
fug I remember trying to make something like this when I was young.
I wish I wasn't so lazy then
cc96e8 No.13913259
>>13912908
>no need to input anything besides pushing the stick forward
I seriously hope you aren't this retarded.
8e77ea No.13913270
>>13913097
>open world meme
With how much people seem to bitch about it you all seem to want this shit in all videogames nowadays. How about Sega just give 3D Sonic to developers that actually like Sonic? Sumo Digital and the Mania guys did good shit.
1bb500 No.13913330
>>13913119
>You're crazy if you think old Sonic games were fast.
I loved going fast for all of half a second before slamming into a hazard or enemy.
7e850d No.13913345
>>13906282
Reminds me of the sonic boom intro.
And that's a really good thing
7e850d No.13913350
>>13913345
*sonic cd.
I keep forgetting those aren't interchangeable anymore.
ca674d No.13913356
>>13913270
You can have open level design without going full open world. I don't think anyone is suggesting Sonic: Breath of the Wild..
e9158d No.13913361
>>13913270
>With how much people seem to bitch about it you all seem to want this shit in all videogames nowadays.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices this shit. /v/ bitches and bitches about how open world games are garbage specifically because of a large, empty world being the priority during development, yet every time there's a dream game thread, the first thing every last fucking post says is "open world." /v/ is full of hypocrites that are tsundere for open world games.
4c72d5 No.13913370
>>13913270
>open world
Please no. Just enough space to be able to stretch your legs a bit.
1e5b5f No.13913380
Actually let the player move like outside of a fucking rail/corridor and let us explore freely for once
4c72d5 No.13913396
>>13913361
OK, freeze frame. How do you define "open world"? For example would you consideer classic Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest games to be open world?
We need to get a handle on this shit before it becomes the next "2.5D" and no one has any clue what anyone is talking about.
ca674d No.13913399
A good way to do it might be to return to the Sonic Adventure style hub world. Only fill it with actual enemies and stuff that makes it more than a glorified level select. And from there you would access more guided levels.
8e77ea No.13913405
>>13913396
You know damn well what the context for open world is.
ca674d No.13913413
>>13913405
It's not always fully agreed on. Some people consider Mario 64 or Deus Ex open world games (I don't).
8e77ea No.13913421
>>13913413
>Some people consider Mario 64 or Deus Ex open world games
Normalfags are not people.
ca674d No.13913428
>>13913421
People on /v/ were calling Mario Odyssey open world.
f803b6 No.13913436
>>13913399
you mean sonic 06
4c72d5 No.13913457
>>13913405
No in fact I don't. Do you mean Skyrimjob-like level design? Because just because a game has more exploration than CoD or FF13 doesn't make it the same thing as Fallout 4 tier level design. It's not a binary choice. There are levels of gradation.
You could easily argue that any game that has more direction and constriant than Minecraft can't qualify as an "open world" game. I don't agree but if you don't have a solid and concise and widely agreed upon definition then you fall into the same trap as "Metroidvania", "Roguelike", or "Souls-like".
ca674d No.13913459
>>13913436
No, that's still a glorified level select. The overworld should be a level in itself, like a Metroid game almost.
49e459 No.13913514
>>13906235
Make it more like the special stages from 2D games. Why the fuck should I have to hold up for hours on end? Going fast should be the default.
7c14c3 No.13913665
>>13912779
Honestly I've been thinking along these lines for a long time. Also quit making the objective "reach the goal" 100% of the time. Take a note from Mario 64 and have multiple objectives/missions in each area.
6a2590 No.13913677
>>13913514
The biggest problem with 3D Sonic right now is that they keep
taking away more and more control form the player, and you want to take away the ability to stop?
49e459 No.13913705
>>13913677
Name 3 places in any sonic game where you have an actual reason to not be accelerating that don't involve some timed crusher bullshit
6a2590 No.13913768
>>13913705
Jump pads in SA1, Poll spin jumps in SA2, Most boss fights, But that's besides the point.
Do you remember the Mach speed sections in 06, or Sonic and the secret rings? A special stage is one thing but how can constant movement be done well for a whole game.
b75432 No.13913778
>>13913705
Anon, I played through S3&K twice this week because I got bored and my friend was raising Chao in SA2 to finish 100%ing it
Off the top of my head:
>waterfall rocks in Angel Island
>spinning cylinders in Hydrocity
>jumping on platforms on Marble Garden
And that's from the best 2D game. Sonic 1 has Marble zone in its entirety.
28cdd5 No.13913808
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13913514
>he wants a full game version of the sonic 06 mach speed sections
DARN, WE'RE NOT GONNA MAKE IT, LETS SPEED UP
ed48d8 No.13915134
>>13915126
That post was genuine. Because even in game files of sonic forces there are files titled "sonic_wars" and shit.
1cf761 No.13915156
>>13915134
I wonder who he was? I guess he might be connected to the VR idea or something.
I kinda wish that he come to us to give us more info
f11880 No.13915195
I say they should implement the parkour system and expand on it, for more flexibility.
Throwing it out was a big mistake, honestly.
4794c4 No.13915432
>>13915126
>Who is actually the first character which you'll play as
Sonic Forces was going to pull a Mega Man X7 and have Modern Sonic be unplayable for half the game, but they changed it at the last second. That's why Modern Sonic's first Green Hill level is full of shit desert garbage even though Eggman hasn't done anything yet.
ca984e No.13915519
All I want, and probably what most fans want, is Sonic Adventure 3. It's pretty obvious: go back to the old formula, smoothen the rough edges, and for fuck's sake get rid of the stupid boost gameplay.
Also, get Richard Jacques to do the music.
673186 No.13915568
Playing a 3D sonic game should be like a Half-Life speedrun with a graphical redesign to make fact platforming easier.
>accelerating to maximum speed requires consistent and skilled use of movement tech
>maintaining max speed requires avoiding both obstacles and damage, and being able to platform quickly enough that you have somewhere to go
>maps are not open world, but are not tracks either. A mix of corridors of corridors and rooms of various sizes connected in a nonlinear way means that there is room for routing, exploration, secrets, and shortcuts for skilled players.
>Presence of component enemies requires you to either kill them quickly or avoid them with skillful platforming. Because it is a shooter, killing the enemies is not spamming your homing attack button nor is it holding down a flamethrower to instantly clear a path in front of you
1cf761 No.13916190
I wish for adventure style but nope, boost gameplay with short level make me a dull boy. and the script and localization is shit, I swear pontac and graff are really half assing it over just getting a fucking paycheck. fucking tortured? really?! I saw better writing in sonic 06! just fucking hell..
6a2590 No.13916578
>>13916190
Pontac and Graff go out of there way to know as little about Sonic as they can and make stories as uninteresting as possible.
I get why colors was less serious, because after Shadow, 06, and unleashed, maybe it was time to have a less serious game, But now it's just boring.
The should just get Ian Flynn, He's seems to be the only one who's been able to get Sonic right.
716b47 No.13916743
>>13911849
>id Tech 1
>Scanline algorithm
>3D
wew
e
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d43a2e No.13916798
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13913808
let's
GET
MOOOOOVING
ca0090 No.13916857
Just bring back the SA2 gameplay, make other characters play like Sonic with different abilities, like in the old games, and don't fucking give it to Sonic Team. There's nothing wrong with a 3D game not playing like a 2D game in the same series.
716b47 No.13916920
>>13916857
>SA2 gameplay
but that was objectively garbage? I'm not even being facetious. Even among most SA fans there is generally an agreement that SA1 is superior in terms of Sonics gameplay. Better in both level design and jenky physics. In many ways SA2 was just proto-boost formula but with a plethora of boost pads and automated speed sections. Why not finally fix 3D sonic as opposed to trying to polish a turd? Hell even more Boost gameplay with improved levels would be preferable to another adventure game. Do you really think most CY+++ Sonic team developers can even deliver on something even as good (for the sake of argument) as Sonic Adventure?
d0ba1b No.13917054
Wait, I got it. What if we add wall collision damage and falling damage? No one will ever say 'hold right to win' again!
ca0090 No.13917163
>>13916920
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that SA1 was better than 2. Outside of having more floating platforms and being full of bottomless pits, I can't really think of any ways SA1's level design is superior to SA2's. Don't try to tell me SA1 wasn't full of boost pads and automated speed sections. Shit, there's a bunch of them in Windy Valley, the second level of Sonic's campaign. As for the physics, are there really any places in either game where Sonic's physics are relevant to getting around like in the 2D games?
>Hell even more Boost gameplay with improved levels would be preferable to another adventure game.
I don't think the Boost levels can be improved. The big problem with them is that Sonic moves too fast to platform in 3D. I hate the constant switching to 2D, but they have to do it otherwise they have fucking nothing.
>Do you really think most CY+++ Sonic team developers can even deliver on something even as good as Sonic Adventure?
I never said they could.
716b47 No.13917284
>>13917163
>I've ever heard anyone say that SA1 was better
Everyone worthwhile and intellectually honest says SA1 is better. Especially in terms of physics, map design and control. The only thing people often site about 2 as being "better" is the chow gardens and overall plot.
>I never said they could.
I know but your assuming sega would allow another dev team would to touch their aborted baby is wishful thinking.
>I don't think the Boost levels can be improved.
You Sonic Forces shit level design would like to have a word with your assumption. Generations is a good game, far better then all the Adventure games combined. If Forces was at least as good as Generations their would be no drama but instead of improving the formula they took a step back into the Realm of Autism. Hopefully they never go back to the levels of Austistic that was the Adventure formula.
dfebcb No.13917492
>>13917054
The original Genesis games have diverse platforming pathways for its level design and people like Egoraptor complain its too confusing because it forces you to think of ways to maintain speed besides holding right to win.
74ae5f No.13917522
>>13917284
>Generations is a good game, far better then all the Adventure games combined
Woah let's not get ahead of ourselves, while I agree that Generations was a great game. It was NOT better than Sonic Adventure 1.
74ae5f No.13917541
>>13906282
>>13906548
Utopia is an experiment, the game will be less open than the demo but more open than the Adventure games. I thing Lange and his team said that they're experimenting with bringing 2D Sonic into the 3D Plane, basically doing what SEGA wanted to do with the original Adventure, but couldn't due to hardware limitations. He even admitted Adventure was an amazing feat at the time.
74ae5f No.13917558
>>13913041
Fark looks amazing, but I wish there was some better visual polish to the game. Although the fact that he's making a game like Fark is amazing in itself.
ec46b7 No.13918130
Most of Sonic's moves have been about building speed quickly, IE: The spindash or the boost. However, when going super-fast it's very difficult to control Sonic accurately.
Maybe the issue can be solved with a change of perception: What if, rather than Sonic 'speeding up', the world slows down around him for a limited amount of time?
Suppose you're running through a boggy rainforest and come to a lake with a waterfall flowing into it. You have a few options:
>Going slower: Sink into the water, venture through an underwater cavern below.
>Going quickly: Run across the water, behind the waterfall and bypass the challenges below by dodging stalactites to keep your stride.
Or
>Activate a special ability where Sonic speeds up, but from the player's perspective the world slows down - If the player is quick enough to do so before their time runs out, they can scale the waterfall and progress on a higher level.
acb710 No.13918181
>>13918130
A game about going fast without some degree of slow-mo for going REALLY FAST always struck me as an obvious combination. I wonder why I haven't heard of one before?
27ffbc No.13918187
>>13917522
Sonic Adventure 1 was a janky unfinished flaming pile of garbage.
8e77ea No.13918207
>>13918187
Try playing the original in demul at x2-x3 res instead of a shitty port.
9dc5ac No.13918219
The basic design philosophy of Sonic doesn't work both slow or in 3D.
Sega need to understand this and look at everything Mania did right, then expand on it.
Homing jump is the single worst thing in Sonic.
6d6a9e No.13918315
716b47 No.13918388
>>13917522
Don't kid yourself Sonic Adventure 1 was garbage.
9a8243 No.13918593
>>13917054
I'm 100% sure Bubsy has took a try in one of theses things you have mentioned, and it looks like it's REALLY not worthy at all.
2D Sonic is good enough. It's 3D Sonic we're talking about.
1329c5 No.13918657
Either go back to the Adventure gameplay or bring Generations' director and level designers back. That's it.
71a390 No.13918765
I think I've come to terms as to why Sonic Forces had such abysmal level design.
In 2006, Sonic Team was split into two teams. One team was to work on a launch title for the Wii, Sonic and the Secret Rings. The other half was left to finish Sonic '06. These two teams have been kept separated since. The '06 team went on to make games like Unleashed and Colors, while the second team went on to work on Sonic and the Black Knight, and the Mario/Sonic Olympic Games spin-off franchise. Looking at pic related, I went ahead and looked into the records of the Forces level designers. Not only are the amount of level designers much smaller, but they're also relatively new to their work.
>Jyunpei Ootsu
Jyunpei initially worked on the storybook Sonic games as a game designer. Linear games, on-rails gameplay, mission-based levels. Jyunpei was also a planner for Sonic Colors, and a level designer for Lost World and Forces.
>Shoko Kamiya
Shoko has a smaller resume than Jyunpei Ootsu, having only been credited as a game designer for Mario/Sonic at the Sochi Olympic Games, and a level designer for Forces.
>Yuya Setogawa
I have no idea who this fuck is, but looking up the name, it matches with a level designer from The Last Guardian. There's a chance it could be a coincidence or the same person, but I have no idea. Either way, they're new to Sonic.
What's interesting is that these three people all come from the portion of Sonic Team that's worked with the Wii titles. And furthermore, none of them worked on any of the "Boost Formula" titles (save for Jyunpei, who was one of 6 game planners for Colors). So essentially there were three people have never worked on a boost game making a boost game. What I have still yet to figure out is what the former half of Sonic Team is currently working on, and why the shittier half is taking their spot.
ad44b0 No.13919162
>>13907055
>make a brake button
>>13913216
>bonus drift stages
>have a minigame where sonic has to build up speed and make drift donuts and make the biggest skid mark
How is it so hard for Sega to come up with good ideas for Sonic when we've already got gold in almost every thread?
ca0090 No.13929383
>>13918765
Y'know, I was wondering why Sonic has the double jump in some games but not others and why Sonic's model in Forces and Lost World look more like the Colors one than the Unleashed one, but this explains everything. No wonder Classic Sonic plays nothing like he did in Generations, the Colors guys rebuilt him from the ground up with Lost World physics without consulting the other team. That gives me some hope that whatever the other guys are doing turns out much better.
>bumping a thread on page 12
e4245c No.13929544
Mix of time trials and exploration and a level select to explore time trial areas.
>Time Trials
Use the environment to your advantage to get from point A to point B before variable X happens. Some enemies shooting at you but obviously missing. What I mean is you would use the momentum from a ramp or intentionally fall/run down to get a short cut or a boost of some kind to beat the area faster. Than a level select to find a sweet spots out of range to explore in
>Exploration
Change his running speed in explore-able areas to Adventure 2 speeds or less for the purpose of spelunking of some kind. Maybe natural ruins that sonic cannot destroy for being too valuable so he intentionally reduces his speeds there. Boss fights can happen in arena sections here for tension. Maybe boss fight collateral will lead to a new section to explore.
ed4813 No.13935053
>>13929383
> No wonder Classic Sonic plays nothing like he did in Generations
More like Classic Sonic plays nothing like he did in the Genesis games and Mania. There's no point to include him in further modern games if Sonic Team aren't gonna bother to recreate the classic physics from the classic games. Since Generations, he feels much more like a chore to complete than an alternate playstyle to experience. In fact, I would say the Adventure games made a better job at presenting alternate playstyles.
Classic Sonic is a mistake. He's nothing but a form of marketing to target and attract old fans of Sonic. And now you understand why are there so much Generations mods for Modern Sonic than for Classic Sonic. I mean, Modern Sonic already has more 2D sections than 3D sections (in a "3D" Sonic game"). Why does Classic Sonic still keep coming back? Holy shit, just tell him to fuck off. Enough of nostalgia, goddamn.
04a375 No.13935711
Question: How would a 3D collect-a-thon Sonic work? If you're running across the world there has to be missions that either set out a path for you to follow or motivation to explore. Also there has to be something else for rings to do.
7d9631 No.13941492
>How can the 3D gameplay of Sonic be fixed?
Get rid of boost and un-nerf the spin dash. Go play SA 1&2. Notice how the spindash can make you go really far at the speed of fast? Bring that back.
>>13906282
Sonic Utopia is great because it's basically Sonic the OVA the game. and the physics are good
>>13906450
>9 different playable characters
Oh fuck no!
Why can't we have a fucking SONIC game that just focuses on sonic. Get rid of tails and knux and amy and all that shit. tails and amy may be kept if they are non-playable and their lines are kept to a minimum, but knux is on his island protecting the master emerald, leave him alone. Shadow should have stayed dead after SA2 and all the other characters introduced in SA2 should have STAYED in SA2.
I'm not saying there can't be more characters, but don't focus on them as much as SEGA has been.
Imagine playing SA2, but now they're all Sonic/Shadow levels, no more treasure hunting or shitty mechs. Oh and there's 3 times as many of them. If SEGA wasn't ADD and could focus on making a game with only one game mechanic, that's what you would have gotten.
>>13910033
See this is EXACTLY why the boost mechanic is a bad idea. It gives you a bullshit "fastest speed" and basically turns the game into temple run. Sonic is a PLATFORMER, that you can do fast. Not an autorunner with some platforming added after the fact.
>>13911310
I would actually play both those games. But the first one sounds better
>>13911849
>Sonic Robo Blast is much better
SRB is fun in a "what the fuck am I playing" kind of way, not a "this is actually good" kind of way.
7d9631 No.13941548
>>13935711
>How would a 3D collect-a-thon Sonic work?
Watch a Banjo and kazooie speedrun at 2x speed.
62825c No.13942201
I have a nice hand out for sega devs tuning in.
>1. Stop neutering his moveset, make it cooler.
Sonic spin dash is some gay shit in the 3D games, have to stop in place to use it and it's slow as shit, make activate able anytime to go into to a roll and make it speed up down hills then after pressing it again he uncurls and keeps that speed he built up. Clearly have the initial charge slow him down but stopping to a crawl to activate the ability is worthless.
Maybe after a drift sonic can chain that into a spin dash charge to get his speed back after a tight drift.
>2. Make the homing attack cool
I hate how this shit has worked, hit enemy and now you've stopped to a halt, imagine if it just worked like a homing jump where sonic used to change trajectory onto an enemy to use as a platform to add horizontal lift to his vertical speed, maybe if the enemy tanks the hit (needs more then a single) he rebounds off like normal but if he killed them he sound continue on as if he simply jumped on them.
Imagine a level where it adds a segment to build up speed around hazards then it ends with a drop, but before that drop you could jump homing an enemy and if you built enough speed the vertical speed carried you off to an extra area with more goodies.
So playing safe you get by find but being that rad dude who went fast through all that you can launch off an enemy at the end with the homing attack and all that speed you built and get rewards be being the baller you were.
>3. learn to use buttons
Stomp, slide, spin dash, light speed attack
All of these shits need to be on different buttons, it only makes dumb hazards out of what could be used for cooler things.
Slide makes spin attack worse by sharing the same buttons but being context sensitive.
Stomp makes light speed attack a fucking guessing game for if you'll trigger one or the other leading to dumb deaths.
even a saturn controller could support all this with jump still being a thing so no excuse.
Which ever of you devs also put boost and homing attack on the same same waggle motion in unleashed Wii needs to be fired.
>4.If you want to be cute and add combat make it worth doing.
Know that boost, maybe you can add a new move which fuses it with the homing attack so sonic proceeds to lock on to multiple targets like in lost world and use his boost meter to rocket from enemy to enemy ending on the rebound sonic currently does regularly in the games now. rewarding keeping it on hand before enemy encounters by offering a more powerful out to the enemies.
Maybe Sonic can have that wind attack he randomly has in some games and when he was a boss in rush.
Mashing homing attack is retarded as a mechanic.
>5. Be more passive with boost
The amount you get from rings shouldn't be enough to keep it filled, enemy chains in the way shouldn't fill the meter by a third a piece.
At most these should maintain the meter in it's current state, reward additional meter for smooth drifts, going out of the way for capsules putting you in additional harms way and those trick segments you like, offering a refill in a level transition like that is good.
>6.Wisps
If you have to have them, make them more application based and not means to an end, you shouldn't have like 1 or 2 a level and never see them for the rest of the game, make them found and then make them have uses in the level but in just regular play, (Burst with horizontal launches which can just be useful in any platforming) using hover to take some alt path now other then later.
62825c No.13942293
>>13942201
I want to add something on wisps since it hit me right after posting.
Sonic saved those lil shits, why is he collecting them in levels, how about instead of using them as mid stage power ups, you equip 1 as you possibly unlock it in the game and all well as boost energy you can find generic power tanks to use with the wisp you have equipped to use it's power then.
Then you just have it and can then people can replay levels with different wisps and see how that changes their route and way of doing the level.
c964f8 No.13942305
>>13906282
>some autist fucked around and threw together some a quick 3D Sonic demo that plays and looks more like Sonic game than 20 years and millions of dollars of Sega attempts
7b338b No.13942377
>>13917163
>I can't really think of any ways SA1's level design is superior to SA2's.
The design choices in 1 are better than 2, despite 2 being the technically superior game. For example, treasure hunting in 2 requires you to know the map's ins and outs on your very first playthrough, which is frustrating. The hint system is nice in that it feels less like you're moving towards an objective and more like you're hunting down objects, but the radar system is absolute dogshit. Instead of telling which of the three pieces you're next to, it only lights the first one in your batch, meaning that you have to backtrack for absolutely no reason, and I really mean no reason since the emerald pieces are generated in pretty much equally distanced sides of a triangle last time I checked. The shooting stages are also a big downgrade from Gamma's, in that instead of giving an alternate way to play the main levels they're just shallow shooting galleries where your main enemy is the camera rather than the obstacles or platforming. The only two times the system actually works is in Weapons Bed and Cosmic Wall, the former because you have shit shooting at you and use the shooting mechanic to their full potential, which is cathartic, and the latter because it optimizes the platforming style of Shooting characters, as in, floating and gliding and flying around in space. The running stages are perfect barring some scripted events and the B button doing every possible action.
7d9631 No.13942379
>>13942293
Gonna have to disagree with you there. The wisps should have stayed in Sonic Colors. The focus should be on the core gameplay of gofast, roll, spindash, and jump. Not shitty gimmicks where you turn into a drill.
>>13942305
To be fair it was like 4 or 5 autists, and they had been dicking around with the idea for a while. But yeah, I've lost a LOT of hope in the Nips game companies over the last few years. What with Squeenix, SEGA, and Nintendo all collectively shitting themselves over the last 2 years and all.
08afd4 No.13943355
Y'know that they already fix the adventure gameplay right?
ca674d No.13943360
>>13942379
Why do they keep bringing back the wisps? Is it just that they have no idea why people liked Sonic Colours?
279402 No.13943746
>>13913035
Are you unaware of what a tech demo is?
f204a4 No.13943768
>>13943355
Sonic Heroes could be decent, if it wasn't for the retarded "character swap" thing. Like, NO I DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH KNUCKLES NOW, I WAS HAVING FUN WITH SONIC, JUST LET ME PLAY AS I WANT, DAMNIT
42f88f No.13943784
>>13915519
>Richard Jacques
>not having a glorious OST made in collab by Naganuma and Richard Jacques
54974e No.13943846
It's been mentioned before a good 3d Sonic game would have the feel and mechanics of SA2/Unleashed but with multiple paths for failing to complete jumps and challenged. They actually did do this in the SA2 games but only sparsely. I think the best example of this would be the later stages like Crazy Gadget. They probably didn't do this more, however, because it would increase the cost of developing each stage per alternate route and most people are going to aim for the optimal route anyway.
716b47 No.13943864
>>13943768
the character swap thing wasn't the worst part of Hero's. The part that killed heroes is the boring bloated level design. The game hits a unfun wall at Casino Park. Plus its hardly an example of good physics or polished collision. The amount of glitches in Hero's is unacceptable. Its not as bad as the critics at the time made it out to be and had some fun elements but it's also not a hill worth dying on. If its an example of the "adventure" formula at its best then the adventure formula is irredeemable.
122b7e No.13943908
>150+ replies
>nobody mentioned sonic world
Sonic World is easily the best adventure game right now. Almost perfected the 3D sonic formula. There are small problems to handle like homing attack range, map designs but other than that, maps and characters are pretty good. What I enjoyed the most is, it doesn't really feel repetitive because there are lots of maps, and characters. Some characters have basically same movement sets and some of them are basically shit though. I just hope we get more and more levels with this project and get better boss fights. It's hard to take you guys seriously when you argue about best adventure game, fan made games and how to make a 3D sonic game if you haven't played it yet. It's a great proof that you can make great adventure style game. Think about it if this kind of game was an official game from a big industry not from sega
716b47 No.13943971
>>13943908
>nobody mentioned sonic world
because its garage
b0e6d1 No.13943986
>>13906235
Uh they had it perfect with this one but then they started doing meth again
54974e No.13943998
>>13943986
Sega cycle different level designers in and out of the series which is why you have good sonic games like Generations followed but by turds like Forces.
f09dc7 No.13944081
>>13943908
Stop shilling this garbage. Sonic World is objectively the worst 3D Sonic fan game.
b57c3c No.13944113
>>13918130
Theoretically speaking, I think this could be a neat idea for Shadow. Chaos Control to slow time.
I also don't really like how games revolve around boosting, but maybe throwing it out completely is a waste. Maybe it could be a special move for Metal Sonic, what with the jet turbine on his back. Sonic could have a moveset more like the classic games or Adventure, or something.
b57c3c No.13944150
>>13943908
I think World can be fun and has potential but a lot of the levels released in R8 are bugged to hell and back. They have a lot of shit to fix before this comes anywhere close to being the perfect 3D Sonic.
6d6a9e No.13944213
>13943971
have you made a single good post in this entire thread?
b57c3c No.13944285
I think boosting can be a neat thrill, but the games rely way too much on it. What if we restricted its use to make the odd chance you can boost more meaningful? Perhaps a shield that lets you boost until you take a hit, or the super sneaker monitor returns and lets you boost until it expires. That way you only have a chance to use a boost when the level is built around it, instead of just tearing through the whole level.
bfacf0 No.13944408
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play. Does Fark pass as a good Sonic Game?
08afd4 No.13944855
>>13944150
I think that they need to get a new engine, they been straining it too much that it's affecting the GPU in certain mainframes especially when it has mods
bfacf0 No.13945150
>>13944081
How shit is it?
122b7e No.13945205
it's fun
other than minor bugs and shitty boss fights, I don't see any problem as I said. Unless you want to play boost sonic, there isn't any problem in this game.
b57c3c No.13946084
>>13945150
It's all over the place. There's a bunch of really good levels, but then there's too many shitty, broken ones. Horrible framerate, falling through the floor, all kinds of problems like that.
Since you just pick whatever level you want and there's no real progression aside from unlocking characters with emblems, you can technically just ignore all the bad levels… but they're still in the game, and they need to be fixed. That has yet to happen.
bfacf0 No.13946238
I personally think that Sonic Forces is 3D Sonic at its best.
b57c3c No.13946258
>>13946238
I think it has some good ideas. I expect them to throw most of them out the window by the next game, though.
bfacf0 No.13946265
>>13946258
I was posting bait. Sonic Forces is trash.
bfacf0 No.13946373
I have an idea for a sonic game.
Sonic Chrono Continuum (aka Sonic Chrono Adventure Sonic CD 2 Hybrid Fusion)
-Takes place on an island could be Sky Island or Angel Island or somewhere else
-Metal Sonic shows up again somehow
-Plot has to do with time travel and is related to Sonic CD
-This game is a collect-a-ton/metroidvania hybrid
-Rings are now a health meter that drains over time think Shinobi for the PS2 but with Sonic elements.
-The goal is to survive and not die until an item is found
-Combat is redone to be more challenging
-No boost to win formula
-You need 120 Silver Rings to fight Metal Sonic/Eggman or whoever the antagonist will be.
4c72d5 No.13946890
>>13946373
>Rings are now a health meter that drains over time
Now I am imagining a 2D Sonic X Wonderboy/Adventure Island hybrid.
4f0eb2 No.13947282
>>13946373
>Rings as health bars
As long as they're still abundant in the levels.One of the best things about the ring system was how it encouraged experimentation with your speed because you don't have to worry about gradually losing your health as you travel through the stages. Also the mechanic of holding onto one ring makes the player feel more active in trying to control how many hitpoints they have. Maybe make it that without rings you still have some sort of health system that regenerates after finding cover from further damage. Or maybe do an inverse like Halo where if you get hit it goes to your regenerative health bar. And if it reqches zero you start losing rings and you die when you get hit with no rings and so on.
f62ee3 No.13947959
Sonic should control like 3D Mario, but have a shoulder button that adds extra acceleration to his movement depending on how far you hold it in, kind of like a racing game. It would give the player more control, make it feel more like a platformer, and be less intrusively game mechanic than a bunch of boost pads or boost meter or whatever.
7b37d6 No.13948248
>>13943986
FUCKING STOP
SONIC COLORS IS TOTAL SHIT
<A rating system that forces you to slowdown and collect items
<Literal sections where you have no control
<Limiting drifting to certain sections
<Fucking lane switching is limited too
>But muh colorful designs and Mario gameplay
Unleashed handled the 3D gameplay much better than Colours
The only reason why it's less appreciated is because it fucks up your control if you go to fast. Which should make sense in a sonic game!
That and the werehog stages had no taunting and Sega ripped off GOW instead of DMC
62825c No.13949438
>>13942379
The start of the wisps point is if they have to have them, I'm not trying to go "lol fuck everything you do make mania 3 you hacks" I'm trying to take what they do now and make it work past simply scrapping it all.
0c6eb7 No.13949670
>>13944081
>Sonic World is objectively the worst 3D Sonic fan game
Go play Sonic Robo Blast 2
>>13943360
For the same reason they keep bringing Shadow back. SA2 was popular, and SEGA is too autistic to realize that people liked it for the gameplay and level design and considered the story to be a cherry on top. Instead they figured "Fuck, those americans really love this new edgy character. Let's put him in everything from now on." Sonic colors managed to pull of the boost formula relatively well, and people were much more lenient on the wisps than they were the werehog, go SEGA figured that THE ONLY reason Sonic Colors did well is because of the wisps. So now they put it in everything hoping the fans will like it even though they have no idea what the fans actually want.
>>13945150
Worse than fanboys would proclaim, but better than detractors will screech. If you think of it as a cheap SA2 knockoff and only play the good levels, then it's fine.
>>13946373
>A sonic game
>collect-a-ton/metroidvania hybrid.
>a health meter that drains over time.
That sounds super fucking gay.
>>13949438
>I'm trying to take what they do now and make it work past simply scrapping it all.
In that case I suppose it's not a completely horrible idea. I would still much rather scrap the wisps all together. Leave the shooting stages in SA1, Leave Shadow in SA2, leave the werehog in Unleashed (which they did, THANK GOD), and leave the wisps in Colors. I'm not opposed to a gimmick or two, but don't make them the focus, and don't run them into the ground. Gimmicks are like mints, you pop one or two throughout the day to keep things fresh, but if you keep it up all the fucking time your teeth are gonna rot and you're gonna get a stomach ache.
ca674d No.13950173
>>13946890
Man, fuck Sonic. Just bring back Adventure Island. Totally underrated platforming series.
4f0eb2 No.13952884
I was just browsing when I found this. If this is true, this explains so much and is also pretty depressing. I'm starting to get the feeling that despite the PR work and games like Mania, SEGA is turning into a sinking ship of some sort. Like just some jumping board to get to Nintendo. It's really sad because SEGA was its own company with its own identity, what with it being more experimental. Now I really want Headcannon or at least another studio built up from fans to handle 3D Sonic or all the future Sonic games.
4794c4 No.13952963
>>13946373
>This game is a collect-a-ton/metroidvania hybrid
>tfw no 3D Tails Adventure
71a390 No.13953066
>>13952884
>enter gaming industry to overthrow Nintendo's monopoly
>die by losing all competent employees to Nintendo
Truly sad. However, this means that most people that understand Sonic will be with Nintendo. And if Sega goes down even further, Nintendo could buy off some of their IPs. What are the odds that one day Nintendo will split the timeline and be the ones making Sonic games?
7b37d6 No.13962694
>>13952884
That picture makes me sad
4df842 No.13962727
>>13953066
>enter gaming industry to overthrow Nintendo's monopoly
ddb91b No.13962765
Fucking fire all of sonic team and replace them with people who actually give a fuck. I refuse to believe they actually spent 4 god damn years developing Sonic Forces.
>>13941492
>I'm not saying there can't be more characters, but don't focus on them as much as SEGA has been.
The fuck are you even talking about, the peanut gallery barely even shows up anymore, at most it's just tails, amy to a lesser extent & the occasional appearance by knuckles
ea038f No.13962798
>>13952884
>>13962765
>Fucking fire all of sonic team and replace them with people who actually give a fuck. I refuse to believe they actually spent 4 god damn years developing Sonic Forces.
Well according to >>13952884 's pic they'll just work for nintendo instead.
6d6a9e No.13962804
>>13942201
You know every game from Unleashed up to Lost World has done exactly what you said with the characters right?
And if you mean ONLY Sonic in any way, shape or form, there's always Sonic 4 Episode 1 :^)
6d6a9e No.13962811
>>13962804
Fuck, this was meant for >>13941492
f029e7 No.13962871
>>13952884
>Artist
>artist
>artist
Why yes, concept artists work for multiple companies. They're all free lance.
eebd89 No.13962880
The secret of the Sonic franchise is that it was never good and you only liked it as a kid because Sonic was a 2kewl4skewl character. Once you grew up, if you didn't have any nostalgia for the IP, you realized how shit it was. Otherwise, you'll constantly talk about those few good Sonic games from your childhood that were never good to begin with.
f029e7 No.13962892
Just making a good 3D platformer would fix sonic. Roll it all back to the PS2 era of 3D platformers and do that. Keep his homing attack and bouncing off enemies to cross gaps but remove the insta death from it.
If you're going to do Sonic fast then you have to completely change the game to be open world instead of trying to design small linear running levels like in Unleashed. Actually do werehog levels but as normal sonic and you would have a decent little sonic game design wise.
Either way drop the speed autism unless you go full open world and make it so Sonics traveling huge distances at light speed where terrain.
Plot wise just do a basic kidnap story. Sonics friends are kidnapped by Robotnik and you have to defeat a robot version of them to save them. People like the metal characters so use them. Once rescued they work on their own objectives to help fight robotnik and you can see them running around the world. They will want to sell DLC so each characters story is DLC completely split from the Sonic story. Knuckles isn't as fast so he can't run around the world, instead he's exploring an underground system. Tails has to collect parts for his wrecked plane. They're usually on ledges Sonic would struggle to get to due to the speed he would need making it very difficult to stop right where he wanted.
tl;dr Stop trying to make a 2D game into a 3D game. Use the advantages of a 3D game and make your speed become your primary fast travel method. Maybe even map it to a button which launches into super speed mode and disables all the collisions with terrain outside of the ground (so you don't run into a tree and die on the spot).
6d6a9e No.13962896
>13962880
>Kuck-ON image
>X was never good meme
ca674d No.13963002
>>13962880
Sonic gameplay at it's worst was unremarkable, functional platforming, and it had the most stylish aesthetics and some of the best music of the 16-bit era. Maybe it was never as good as some people think, but to say it was never good at all is just being dramatic.
08afd4 No.13963480
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
And ==SOMEHOW== the fandom just got itself a lot more worst. a nip just made a game that act a backdoor and DRM that, when using cheat engine. can make a game spooky. but that just the cover of it, while uninstalled and reinstalled make it even worst!
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=s_5IS7nWKas
6a7ad8 No.13963653
>>13963480
That seems pretty fucking cool actually
That nip is alright
7f75fc No.13963674
>>13962892
>Maybe even map it to a button which launches into super speed mode and disables all the collisions with terrain outside of the ground (so you don't run into a tree and die on the spot).
boost was not a good mechanic
f029e7 No.13963710
>>13963674
You're not boosting as it does it now. It's fast travel within Sonic's world
4f0eb2 No.13964403
>>13963002
>Unremarkable platforming
Name another platformer that combines turning into a weapon when you jump and uses momentum to maneuver levels with multiple and creative pathways.