/v/ - Video Games

>>13805115

No

>>13805115

can you get something with real world value?

If yes, yes

If not, no

what about them isnt gambling?

>>13805119

So it's ok because you spend real world money to have a chance to get something with no value?

yes

>>13805115

Yes. Everyone who says no should be shot.

>>13805127

It's not okay, I think it's fucking dumb, but it's also not gambling.

Nobody needs to protect idiots from their bad financial decisions.

>>13805115

Yes

>>13805119

>>13805118

Overcucks go home

>>13805115

Yes, I thought they already were considered gambling?

>>13805127

You can sell skins in CS Go and get steambucks for it.

If you're very lucky then you can turn a profit.

It sounds like gambling to me.

>>13805115

Of course it's gambling. You can "win" skins that sell for hundreds of dollars. That said, once they can no longer do this, and I suspect that time is looming, they'll come up with an even more jewish scheme to ruin games to extract more shekels.

>>13805119

>>13805118

Why not?

Loot boxes literally play on the same circuits as things like drug, alcohol, and gambling addictions.

This skinner box horseshit needs to stop.

>>13805115

>Should loot boxes beconsidered gambling?

>>13805118

<No

Yes because they are gambling. There is no skill. All 100% games of chance are 100% gambling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_chance

>>13805115

If it hurts the devs and publishers then yes.

>>13805115

Of course they should. The entire industry should be destroyed.

>>13805118

Reported. Kill yourself.

>>13805179

>If

There is no "if" in regards to loot boxes being gambling. See my previous post: >>13805175

>>13805175

>100% Orange Juice

Not gambling, because there is no real money involved

>loot crates

Gambling, make it illegal

>>13805118

>first post is jewish

LIKE

CLOCKWORK

Yes, and should be subject to the same restrictions and regulations.

Yes.

If I remember correctly, the EU is bringing laws to counteract this type of shit.

>>13805115

Gacha cancer should stay in awful Jap mobile games where it belongs, I hate seeing this money-grubbing bullshit infecting full games.

That said, I do not want the gubmint putting their hands all over my vidya. It can only end badly.

If you are spending real money on a dice roll, then yes it absolutely is gambling. That said, it should be allowed. It's fucking horrendous and I will avoid the fuck out of games that do it, but it should be allowed.

It's economic Darwinism as far as I'm concerned. I hate the companies doing it, but I hate the idiots buying in to it even more. They deserve to be homeless. Once they're milked dry maybe things will go back to normal.

>Let's have the government regulate video games just because I think Overwatch is for normalfag scum

What could possibly go wrong?

>>13805233

Don't you want companies to be sued into oblivion and face criminal charges for it though?

Sounds like a good way to remove some shit publishers to me.

>>13805239

We're talking about in-game purchases, not the actual content of the game.

>>13805241

You're a idiot good goy if you think encouraging governments to stick their dick into vidya regulation is a good idea.

>>13805233

<yes it absolutely is gambling. That said, it should be allowed.

<yes you fuckin goy how very anti-semitic of you to attempt anudda shoah by stopping us from addicting your children to something that requires state sanctioning and federal regulations

<it might be totally illegal for us to be doing this but we're going to shill the ever loving fuck out it WHAT ARE YA GONNA DO YA FUCKIN GOY?

Found the heeb.

>>13805203

I can't tell if you just don't know it's a game, but it's a game.

His argument is that your argument was too broad; you said "all 100% games of chance are 100% gambling", and he gave an example of a game of chance that was obviously not gambling, because you neglected to include the "monetary gain" clause.

It's a moot point, though, because the article you referenced instead gives the correct definition, so what the fuck ever.

>>13805239

>games economic crash

>videogames are now illegal

>bypass the law anyway by torrenting old games

>people start playing old games again or nothing at all

>more of a community forms around these games

>life is good

>>13805250

>Not wanting Big Papa to step in and shove his dick up your ass because you're too stupid to not gamble

Everything should be controlled by the government so I don't have to think :^)

>>13805250

>disobey the law like always

>alerts normalfags how shit government intervention is faster than anything else

>everyone wins

I don't see what the problem is

>>13805252

>he gave an example of a game of chance that was obviously not gambling

Sorry. I never played any "Orange Juice" vidya. Please tell me how it's loot boxes are not gambling though. I'm sure everyone here cares.

<It's a moot point, though, because the article you referenced instead gives the correct definition, so what the fuck ever.

>A game of chance is a game whose outcome is strongly influenced by some randomizing device, and upon which contestants may choose to wager money or anything of monetary value.

>wager money or anything of monetary value

>anything of monetary value

Selling something for money imbues a monetary value. Congratulations on being a retard; please do not become a progenitor.

>>13805270

100% Orange Juice is a game of chance.

You aren't playing for money.

Therefore, it is a game of chance that isn't gambling.

>>13805274

>implying

of course

Literally selling gambling to underage kids, the jews make so much money of this shit and they need a bullet through the head.

I know someone who's kid wasted so much money on that shit, basically had to be sent to some sort of counseling rehab to stop when he's 16.

>>13805250

More like, you're a kike for condoning the exposure of gambling to kids.

>>13805274

>Surrendering control to the government is a good idea

Just like how the USSR was so successful amirite comrade?

>>13805286

>WHY DOESN'T THE GUBMENT LET ME SELL HEROIN TO KIDS REEEEE

>>13805119

Its worse than gambling then you mongoloids, its throwing your money into a black hole

>>13805289

not an argument

Gambling is the act of spending money for a small chance to win a lot more money, and a large chance to with nothing. Opening loot boxes is spending money for a small chance to win something rare, and a large chance to win something extremely common.

In this regard, loot boxes don't fit the definition of gambling, however since all these items are digital, you are pretty much winning nothing at all if you think about it. Thus, it is worse than gambling. It's not really an issue if a game has it for pointless cosmetic stuff, but when functionality unique gameplay content is locked away behind it, then you have a problem.

>>13805119

That's not how it works. It's gambling if you pay to randomly win a prize or lose. It doesn't matter what kind of prize it is. Nor does it matters what kind of payment you make, it's just unless it's actually valuable people don't care.

Loot boxes are gambling.

Fuck, I consider it gambling when CCG's pull this shit but at the very least there's a post purchase market that allows people who play the game to purchase what they want in that scenario.

The idea that someone actually pays a company money just to start addicting their child to gambling with colorful cartoon skins and funny victory poses is sickening to me.

>>13805264

>Everything should be controlled by the government so I don't have to think :^)

This line of reasoning would completely work if humans were rational 100% of the time or even just most of the time, but we're not. The majority of our decisions are irrational and this is very easy to prove.

For example, if you wanted to buy a fridge that was 200 dollars in your town but 100 dollars in the town over, you'd probably drive there to buy it instead because it's a 100% difference in price. If you wanted to buy a new car that was $20,300 in your town but $20,200 in the town over, you wouldn't drive there to buy it instead because it's just a 0.4% difference in price, despite how the actual amount of money you're saving and effort you're going through to save it hasn't changed.

Gambling plays into the human psyche, you can claim to be as strong willed as iron but it's still very easy to fall into an addition.

>>13805297

except it is

gambling, hard drugs, and lootboxes are all addicting money siphons with no return value and here's how you can always know, the people who run/distribute those vices NEVER participate in them themselves.

>>13805251

Why do your children have access to your credit card? Fucking learn to parent.

Take responsibility for your own life and for the lives of your children or move to bongland if you want a nanny state.

>>13805296

You really must understand the sheer magnitude of the desire to show off little kids have. It's the same magnitude of being a scumbag if you try and leverage it for money.

>>13805143

This is war.

>>13805315

Another Jew.

ITT: Jews shilling for getting children addicted to gambling through indoctrination via video games and imageboard raids.

>>13805315

Kids can by steambux cards or prepaid credit cards at any 7/11, leave your basement some time

>>13805313

You really tricked me, anon, well done.

>>13805314

And?

There's always a group of people stupid enough to buy into that shit, and if your parents aren't shit you won't be buying drugs as a kid.

>>13805331

>and if your parents aren't shit you won't be buying drugs as a kid.

literally "let me sell drugs to kids lolberg", hilarious

>>13805332

Another one! Fuck my Jewdar battery is going to need a recharge soon.

>>13805301

>Overwatch fans will defend this

I honestly don't mind skins or whatever in a free to play game but when you buy a game for 60$ you are literally have to pay more money to use the things you already paid for in the disk.

>>13805341

You don't need any kind of device to track shit this blatant anon.

About time goddamnit. Where has all those soccer moms and no-fun-allowed feminists been when you need them? They whine about violence and boobs in games but have been ignoring all these microtransactions that tap into the same weaknesses that causes gambling addiction.

Then again microtransactions, lootboxes and other pay2win shit ruins the fun so I wouldn't be surprised if those soccer moms and feminists had an unholy alliance with the industry to ensure that nobody will enjoy video games ever again.

>>13805340

With enough grind you can get it. Granted that's just a shitty way to extend playtime, but still, not the same as paying $60 every time you kill a boss so it would drop a loot chest with 0.005% chance to have the item you need.

>>13805340

You didn't pay money for a chance to win the game, you paid money for the game. We both know there is a clear difference.

>>13805339

>what is reinvigorating nationalistic tendancies in society so parrents give a shit about their kids

In a perfect world nobody would be doing drugs because 1. They wouldn't need to, 2. They wouldn't have been raised to think it's ok and 3. They wouldn't have big brother telling them to do so because of the drug cartels are making them money in Panama.

>>13805345

the amount of "people" agreeing with the shills led me to think otherwise, i'll chill and watch the thread for a bit. sorry

>all the people defending something as vile and degenerate as gambling

but why

>>13805350

You can grind lootboxes in overwatch ad infinitum, 4free.

>>13805353

>You didn't pay money for a chance to win the game, you paid money for the game

>there is a clear difference

No, not really. If there is, extrapolate it for me.

No, the pay out doesn't even qualify it for gambling.

>>13805359

Kikes, and also the useful idiots reddit refugees.

>>13805364

Grinding for lootboxes is not gambling. Buying them - is.

>>13805354

How can you be this retarded? People have always done drugs from the begging of recorded history for no more than doing anything else, curiosity. As for point 2, you don't understand that without strict sanctions and laws in place that won't happen, you tell a kid to do something they will do the opposite unless you stop them.

I'm pretty sure you're an underage lolberg with your hilariously naive view of the world

>>13805369

>shit parrents tell you it's ok to do whatever you want because the kikes say it's the best way to raise your kids to be happy with minimal work put in to it

>little Timmy is now a drug addict with no job because the taxes and regulations prevent industry from making a profit here

>oh no how ever could this have happened

>>13805359

Truth be told I'm actually all for gambling. As it's own activity, removed from any other form of entertainment.

Christ, could you imagine what it would be like if movies decided to just cut the ending of the movie off 3 out of 4 screenings and forcing you to buy another ticket for a chance to see the whole thing?

>>13805233

>>13805233

>If you are spending real money on a dice roll, then yes it absolutely is gambling. That said, it should be allowed.

Oh it probably won't be banned outright but the government will place so many restrictions on it it will become unfeasible.

>>13805386

Yes that's how it works. Just because people willingly get scammed, doesn't mean scamming people is okay.

>>13805374

This isn't a perfect world anon. Yes, people are going to do drugs because they have done so forever, but it's much worse when your nation is crumbling from lack of a functioning economy.

>kid to do something they will do the opposite unless you stop them

Then stop them. Fucking don't be a shit parent.

>>13805239

>>13805250

They already regulate it you fucking goons.

Hell Canada gives billions a year to Ubishit.

>>13805386

Also it's still gambling, just shittier because the prizes you win worth absolute fuckall.

>>13805394

On who's authority?

>>13805399

The value of the prize is what makes or breaks it being gambling though. If there are no stakes, it's not by definition gambling.

>>13805286

>MUH NOT TRUE CAPITALISM

every fucking time

you fuckers are as bad as commies

>>13805115

Now the gambling authority is cracking down on Social Justice Watch and Battlefront 2!?

>>13805148

Reminder that lootboxes are pushing people away from Social Justice Watch after people got fucked over with the anniversary event (people didn't get anniversary rewards) along with the forced leftist-sjw pandering and the game being more dreadful to play and watch.

>>13805207

England's Parliament is keeping an eye on this stuff with after Activision got caught with it's lootbox plan it still pulled off in CoD:WW2.

If gambling is illegal explain las vegas and the lottery

>>13805300

>So is paying for any digital good, your point?

Microtransactions aren't goods. The "goods" in question were already purchased the moment you bought the game. As was the mechanism by which to obtain them. Nor are they a service. Even stuff that comes out later which gets added to lootboxes that aren't in the base game, were still covered by the initial purchase price, since the "free" updates are exactly that - free updates. Everybody gets them, regardless of whether or not they pay for lootboxes - as an extension of the initial purchase price.. and that is a completely separate issue to the topic of lootboxes.

It's not just gambling. It's gambling for cheat codes that shipped in the base game, or which get distributed to everybody as part of the initial purchase price.

Are they gambling? Yes. A better question would be "should they be legally considered gambling, and regulated as such?" In that case the answer is (generally) no.

Regulated gambling typically takes two forms: money bets (in which you can directly win or lose money), and lotteries (in which you probably throw your money away but might get something). These are regulated essentially because they're the highest risk forms of gambling, in which people stand to be simply burning money in exchange for nothing but chance. The same factor is why they've been historically considered an immoral vice.

Most loot boxes are a third category which has more often been left out of regulation (and for good reason): mystery boxes. These are purchases in which the buyer is getting something, he just doesn't know exactly what. Pokemon cards, dollar shave club, literal mystery boxes sold at carnivals, cons, etc. are all in this category, and are different because although they are gambling in a sense (the value of the box could be more or less than what you paid for it), they are also valid purchases of some firm item, so there's no chance of the money put in being outright lost.

So loot boxes could be the sort of gambling which should be regulated under the current system (for example if a loot box contained only more loot box credits of varying amounts or had a chance of being empty), most of them currently are not.

>>13805406

>implying they're not the (((commies)))

>>13805403

Technically even something as simple as seeing a pretty picture or hearing a pleasant tone can trigger the part of the brain that reacts to gambling. That's kind of the whole business model of freemium games. Get people addicted to the game for free, then switch out the model after they need their fix.

>>13805127

>>13805115

No. If people are dumb enough to spend real money on digital garbage then fuck them.

>>13805328

>>13805326

Or maybe you could teach your children some financial responsibility instead of trying to legislate it.

Hell, a lot of these games are rated mature anyway. Maybe we should have swat teams combing neighborhoods for kids playing games they aren't old enough to be playing too.

I'm just a proponent of Darwinism. Let idiots throw away their money and kill themselves. Humanity grows stronger as the weak willingly remove themselves from it.

>>13805413

>If gambling is illegal explain las vegas and the lottery

The law says you must 18 or older (some might be 21+). Children, Mr. Rabbi, are defined in the USA as being younger than 18 years old. Therefore, see if you can follow this logic now, it is illegal for children to gamble.

>>13805422

Think of all the kikes that get unrightfully enriched at expense of all those retards.

>>13805410

Nice argument.

>>13805411

Last I checked the government hasn't made laws based around God's will for a while.

>>13805415

> It's gambling for cheat codes that shipped in the base game

Alright, so back to my other example. If a game has an enemy that drops an item very rarely, is it gambling? you paid for the game and by extension that item, but it's locked behind random chance.

>>13805419

The mode by which it operates is irrelevant. If that mattered the entire field of psychology and marketing would be banned.

>>13805312

I think it does us a service, weeding out those weak enough to fall prey to it. I only wish those fools would actually starve as a result rather than being able to fall back on more government shit

>>13805424

>teaching children responsibility

Yeah might as well teach your dog the relativity theory.

>>13805417

>A better question would be "should they be legally considered gambling, and regulated as such?" In that case the answer is (generally) no.

A better solution would be to treat it the same as the lottery. Let the states decide. Since the states don't actually make a dime off of microtransactions, I doubt they'll give much leeway in their ruling as to whether or not they constitute gambling.

And of course, if you allow the states to decide - then each state is going to end up having it's own regulation on the matter. It'll completely fracture these corporations ability to fuck their customers on a consistent basis, and make Microtransactions basically unworkable in the US. And if they are unworkable in the US, then they are pretty much dead globally.

>>13805431

Filtered for being kike shill.

>>13805424

>Or maybe you could teach your children some financial responsibility instead of trying to legislate it.

Or maybe you kikes could all be crucified and stop trying to kill our children's minds and souls with your Hebrew subversion tactics like putting gambling mechanisms in their toys.

Or just maybe just be crucified and the rest of the pieces will fall into place naturally.

>>13805440

>announcing a filter

>>>/tumblr/

>>13805433

>oy vey don't try and improve society

>just let your kids do what they want goy, there's literally nothing you can do to teach your kids how not to be retarded

>>13805440

>announcing a filter

>>13805431

>Last I checked the government hasn't made laws based around God's will for a while.

Last time I checked the Bible it still said Jesus Christ braided cords into whips and beat you the fuck out of the temples.

>>13805452

OY VEY

>>13805447

Mate I'm only saying that children are literally retarded by adult standards, you can't expect them to comprehend basic things like implied threats from electric appliances, heights, chemicals, etc. You can't possibly think they'd grasp such advanced philosophical concepts as responsibility and thinking things through.

>>13805332

The free market doesn't fucking work. Look at the gaming industry. What gets bought the most? The shittiest stuff, and people keep throwing money at microtransactions to the point where it's more profitable than the fucking games themselves. It's a spiral of decline because people are too fucking stupid, and that's why the whole unregulated free market thing objectively does not work. No matter how shit EA are, people still throw their money at them.

>>13805431

>If a game has an enemy that drops an item very rarely, is it gambling?

You still have the item though, you just can't access it immediately. Similarly, you already have the items when it comes to lootboxes. You've already paid for it once, regardless of whether or not you have access to it, and what lootboxes are asking you to do is to gamble with real money to access stuff that you already own.

It essentially falls into the same category as content-on-disk DLC, except rather than just selling you again - what you already own - they're having you gamble for it.

>>13805457

Then explain it to them so they understand.

>>13805417

I'm fairly certain that money bets and lotteries would be just as regulated if they tried to institute a minimum payout of 1 cent so they fall into the third category.

>>13805472

You can't. The same way you can't train your dog into a physics nobel prize winner.

>>13805468

>implying good games aren't still made and turn a profit

>>13805115

Yes they are and anyone that says the contrary they are a shill from overwatch and a jew.

>>13805439

As I noted further down though, lotteries are generally regulated (at least with an age limit) because they are different than mystery boxes, and the reasoning behind them is different.

As for your death-by-most-stringent-regulation, leave-it-to-the-states idea, (a) that's unconstitutional under the commerce clause (states can't burden interstate commerce with internal regulations), and (b) functionally it's no different than regulating it federally, so if you're going to do that you may as well just go all out.

>>13805477

>oy vey don't try it's impossible

I think the one that doesn't understand is you, friend.

>>13805457

What kind of braindead fucking children are you around?

>>13805468

And being a gommie/socialist is gonna fix it? Because big brother knows best?

>>13805470

You don't have to pay for it in Overwatch and Battlefront. You can, but you don't have to.

>>13805483

>none of my predecessors succeeded, but surely I will be able to each a little kid important life decision skills that many adults never fully grasp

Yeah well good luck with that.

>>13805474

Well yeah, because the law is in fact not a dumb, inflexible beast. Obviously if a lottery puts on a cheap, thin mask that says "MYSTERY BOX" in big red letters, it's still going to be treated like the lottery it is.

>>13805472

>Then explain it to them so they understand.

Really only two options here: 1) you're a perma /v/irgin and have never been around a child in your adult life, or 2) you're a child yourself therefore you are inherently incapable of understanding.

>>13805489

>>13805491

>you can teach kids not talk to strangers

>you can teach them to do math and speak

>you can teach them to not put random shit in their mouths

>you can teach them to shit by themselves and to bath themselves

<but teaching them to not gamble is fucking impossible

>>13805489

>>13805491

>don't try

Sure thing schlomo

>>13805498

<kids always do what their parents teach them

<especially when their parents aren't around

<therefore, you fucking goy, stfu and let us put gambling and lewds in vidya games and market them to your kids

[HAND WRINGING INTENSIFIES]

>>13805490

The key point is that lottery and casinos are government sanctioned, which means they have their balls in a vice and if they try to scam people too hard they'll have their balls smashed. It keeps them in check. Lootboxes and skins sold for exorbitant amounts of cash to little kids is what you get when they aren't kept in check.

>>13805522

>don't bother trying to teach your kids anything

>let the state educate them goy

>let them run free, they can't help it, discipline is for the elite only

Top wew, and you call me the yid. Also

>let us put lewds in vidya

>ACTUALLY BEING THIS RETARDED

>>13805490

So something being a Mystery Box has no affect on it actually being gambling. It's just a distinction.

Sadly a distinction that used to not matter as much as it does now.

>>13805498

You obviously have never dealt with a human child in your life, or probably have even seen a depiction to write something that stupid.

Additionally

>you can't teach a mouse not to talk to strangers

>you can't teach a mouse to do math and speak

>you can't teach a mouse to not put random shit in their mouths

>you can't teach a mouse to shit by themselves and to bath themselves

<but you CAN teach a mouse how to use a skinner box

>>13805527

I can see the case for regulating it if worse loot boxes appear, but right now they seem pretty much on the same level as packs of trading cards to me. There were several stories years back of kids who took their moms' credit cards to the store and bought a shitload of Pokemon cards (which were obviously gambling in a similar sense and marketed at kids), but I don't think we needed to install an age limit on those either.

>>13805544

><teaching your kids is useless fuckin goys

Nigger that is literally the point I'm arguing against, learn to read.

>>13805546

>a mouse is as smart as a human

wew. If you can't teach a child, I guess everything schools do from k-12 is a complete waste of everyone's fucking time.

>>13805418

True, it could be leftypol false flagging.

>>13805544

I feel like /pol/ would shit in its own mouth if a jew said that feces was toxic.

One would think that a website that's always fighting for free speech under the threat of government takeover "For your own good" would understand that shit.

>>13805557

Fucking amen Edgeworth.

Lobbying has always been a tool of the megacorp. How much more protected do you feel under "Monsanto".

A big reason for Obesity in America is because the subsidies the meat industry gets.

>>13805557

How would regulating gambling in the form of micro-transactions in video games allow the government to control what video games are released to the public?

>>13805566

>Nigger that is literally the point I'm arguing against, learn to read.

It's really not though. You keep saying that teaching kids is enough, so the government shouldn't do anything to protect them from (((you))). Your point is that you want our children to have unfettered access to the gambling and lewds in the vidya.

>>13805334

I don't know why you're having trouble following this conversation, but here:

1: you said any game of chance is gambling

2: that guy basically said "well what about Mario Party?"

3: you didn't know what game he was talking about, so I told you

That's the whole thing. It was just semantics. You need to calm down.

>>13805584

Meant to reply to >>13805575

whoobs :DD

>>13805413

It's worth mentioning there are permits and taxation involved with gambling establishments. If the kikes are getting the benefits of running a gambling ring and none of the responsibilities, then the government is going to target them to get some of that cheese. Jews Jewing Jews.

>>13805576

My god you're fucking dumb. If you teach a kid to not partake in shit, and you're a good parent who can enforce rules, then the child's access to it isn't unfettered is it dumbass? And no, the government shouldn't regulate because A) that shit is not effective nor good for any party involved, look at fucking australia. And B) people should choose what the fuck they want, you think your kid can handle some tits, let em.

>>13805566

A mouse is not as smart as a human, if you weren't aware.

The fact that even without the benefit of intelligence you can teach it to gamble rather easily should say everything that needs to be said about the position 'just teach kids not do do it'

>>13805115

Yes it involves money.

>>13805576

>Trust us dying for Israel is the right thing to do!

>Trust us giving fags the right to marry is the right choice!

>Trust us affirmative action is good!

Giving the government more power is clearly the only choice.

>>13805575

What makes you think the government would actually be able to not only keep in-game transactions to a reasonable level, but also know when to stop with the regulatory oversight?

A free man's skin crawls at the phrase "I'm with the government, and I'm here to help"

>>13805557

A thought along these lines: could just leave it to the ESRB. Nothing stopping them from listing "in-game gambling" as a rating factor and rating most such games M. Would probably at least keep loot boxes out of games specifically aimed at younger children, which is the bigger concern I think.

>>13805174

>addictions

vidya is an addiction you know

>>13805175

>All 100% games of chance are 100% gambling.

>RNG games

>gambling

ayyy

>>13805127

yes

>>13805185

>Reported. Kill yourself.

no u

>>13805193

nice argument, faggot.

>>13805592

Nigger, humans are blessed with intelligence so we can learn to not fall prey to basal instinct. But I guess because animals can be trained to do something then it's bad. We should all eat whenever we see food because animals do, we should all have sex whenever we feel like it like animals, because it's not like we can think or anything.

I'm not sure if it should be classified as gambling or not, but I do think they should have to list odds for these damn things. And core game elements shouldn't be locked behind them. Fill them with costumes and skins, shit one doesn't really need.

>>13805593

Games are already regulated by business practices by that notion. The content that is generated in a game is just a product that is being sold to customers. The same can be said for the "(((satisfaction)))" the person feels when opening a loot crate. It's just part of the product.

Regulations regarding in-game trading, however are circumvented by only allowing the customers to trade what they've "earned" to other players using in-game currency.

>>13805585

>but you always get something! so it's not tek nik ali gambling!

Give me a dollar. There's a 1:100,000 chance I will give you another dollar back. A 10:5000 chance I'll give you a lump of dog shit. If you don't win, I'll still give you a kick in the nutsack.

There, you have a chance to win not just double your money - but even if you loose you still get a good (dog shit), or a kick in the nuts (a service).

Boy I love tek nik cali ties.

>>13805603

Because microtransactions are a specific thing that is easily defined.

In case you weren't aware, determining things to be illegal and regulating businesses are powers that the government already has and largely has by definition. The argument is simply what is found illegal and what needs to be regulated and by how much.

>>13805604

Well fug, that sounds kind of okay actually.

>>13805115

>Should loot boxes be considered gambling?

Yes.

>>13805119

>can you get something with real world value?

Emotional pleasure. Also you're neglecting the damage it can do to someone with an addictive personality. People are stupid and sometimes you need to save them from themselves. And you do need to save them from themselves because if you don't then you get too many homeless people and the last thing you want is homeless orgies in every alleyway.

>>13805608

>[w]e should all eat whenever we see food

>not like we can think or anything

Why don't you try keeping lots of candy and desserts within easy reach of your children and just teaching them that they should not eat these things all the time? Also leave porn open on your computer and just teach them not to look at it. Let me know how it goes.

>>13805626

Then again, audience doesn't give a shit about what they're playing.

>>13805607

"no" isn't an argument either

faggot

>>13805608

Your statement literally states that humans have intelligence so they don't have to follow instinct, then attempts to paint not following instinct as a stupid proposition.

Please clarify whatever point you are trying to make. It's a little confusing.

You know what bothers me?

I don't give a fuck. It doesn't affect me. Games with microtransactions are shit by default and should be ignored by anyone with IQ in two digits.

Yet you can't fucking not see it everywhere, it's like entire human race are fucking vegetables that gobble up everything they are give by jews, and on rare occasion wonder if something isn't right, and then proceed to eat shit.

Why is this thread there?

What's there to discuss?

Are you all shit eating goyim or what?

How does it affect you?

>>13805633

>what is a kitchen

>what is the internet

They are already in reach of them at every waking moment, but you tell them not to, or they learn not too when they get a stomach ache/ their dick chafes and they learn that too much is bad. Give a kid an allowance, and they blow it all on lootcrate, or in the 90s, arcades, they learn to only play games that give them the most bang for their buck.

>>13805646

I'm painting following it as stupid, or do you think doing nothing but eating and fucking are worthy pursuits that have no repercussions?

>>13805633

That goes to not putting a bowl of candy on the table and downloading porn.

>>13805649

>A mouse is still smart enough to run away from a cat.

The clever cat eats the cheese and breathes down mouse holes with baited breath.

>>13805649

Fair point.

>>13805643

>ask a yes no question

>huurr duurr you cant say no!

>>13805653

>How does it affect you?

>le it doesn't effect you maymay

>>13805665

If it does affect you then you fully deserve being jewed the fuck out goy.

>>13805653

>Look at me everyone, I'm so apathetic to everything

>Am I cool yet?

>P-Please notice me…

>>13805674

>playing good games = apathetic

What?

>>13805672

>things can't indirectly effect you

>>13805672

>dev A: I want to make a fun game that you play once and is a complete experience, you only play 60 once

>dev B: I want to make a skinner box with lootcrates that keep the consumer paying until they learn to stop, and some never will

Which Dev is gonna get the publisher's money?

>>13805498

>but teaching them to not gamble is fucking impossible

its pretty easy to teach them how not to gamble, just tell them the possibility of losing their shekels and they will never ever risk it.

>>13805687

>What is independent development

>>13805684

How?

>>13805654

I believe eating and fucking are rather positive activities related to my continued life and propagation of my genes.

In fact, I would suggest that eating and procreating are good things, and that efforts to usurp the brains functions regarding these basic abilities to affect behavior be condemned.

You guys need to stop greening each other. My only concern is what would happen in the event that loot crates would be regulated. Would the dozens of card games which are based upon booster packs be treated in the same way? They have about the same amount of variation in payouts for what you pay for.

>>13805687

>Which Dev is gonna get the publisher's money?

depends on the publisher, anon.

Well I mean name ONE game that becomes good if you take microtransactions out.

There isn't one.

>>13805632

>>13805627

muh slippery slope No really, there's already regulation on things that may cause potential damages. Cars, guns, hunting, booze, tobacco and whatnot can all be legally regulated because they pose a threat to the person and persons around them. Video games, no matter how addictive, do not pose a threat to the individual. The whole "video games cause violence" kick from a while back already established this, but didn't address addictiveness. Cigarettes and alcohol are both addictive, but both are regulated only because of their harmful properties. The surgeon's general warning on either mentioning the addictive property is due to the harm it causes and how tough it is to stop harming yourself with it afterwards. Gambling is regulated because of the financial harm it–

oh

shit

>>13805708

>Well I mean name ONE game that becomes good if you take microtransactions out.

>There isn't one.

I can think of one. I won't say though because it ran for like 10 years on subscriptions then transitioned to F2P with micro-trans

>>13805693

>indie games will save us

You seen the state of indies as of late friendo?

>>13805698

Well have fun being a 400 pound landwhale riddled with STDs with no further purpose in life.

>>13805703

No it does not. You tell the publisher that they can either take the safe investment with high pay out or the risky one with low pay out, no sane dev will pick the latter. Publishers are not run by people who like games, they're run by bean counting kikes.

>>13805693

>schlomo rolls out new widget that's revolutionary and plugs a phone right in to your head

>don't buy it

>millions of goys do

>society rots even further

The product didn't cause me harm directly, but the product made everything else shitty so it indirectly effected me.

That's how you can be indirectly effected by things.

Yes, because i want them to burn. Not because i care or think it actually is.

>>13805715

yeah rip RO

>>13805715

Subscription is a weird middle ground, but most likely it's some fucking mmo.

MMOs aren't even real video games.

>>13805718

Hollow knight, Ruiner and Road Redemption in this year alone make me think that indies in pretty good state.

>>13805718

Have fun not eating or having offspring. We'll pick out a nice spot to bury you.

only if the game has mechanisms to cash out.

>>13805721

>>13805727

It was Dungeons & Dragons Online and fuck you it's actually still a good game even I hate Eberon

>>13805739

I haven't played that one, but most mmos I did try were brainless skinner boxes.

>>13805733

>You either follow instinct or NEVER EVER let it tell you what to do

Holy fuck. Learn to moderate yourself you fucking tard. Everything in moderation. But then again I'm trying to get an animal to perform critical thinking, so I guess I'm the idiot for wasting my time.

>>13805697

>Because we all know that the government knows what's best for everyone and never fucks anything up.

In a weird kind of way, that's kind of preferable. I mean, if you let the government run everything - they're just going to fuck everything up. If you let the public run everything, they're just going to fuck everything up. At least with the government there, you have some monolith to point to and direct your seething rage. If everything is being fucked up by the public, then you're constantly living in fear and hatred of your neighbor - because they're part of the fucking problem. And every once in a while, you'll catch yourself in a brief moment where the bottom falls out and you plunge into the inky black terror of considering that you are every bit as much a part of the problem yourself as well.

>>13805718

>No it does not.

Yes it does.

>>13805727

On indies: if gambling in videogames is established as a regulatory standard, indies would suffer.

Not because they do or do not have lootboxes, but rather because they would need to go through bureaucracy (please check the box here and pay us a licensing fee thank you go fuck yourself) just to make and publish a game.

>>13805754

show me a publisher who hasn't kiked out with shovelware or DLC.

>>13805753

>public fucks everything up

>you can start a profitable company fixing it

>government fucks up

>taxes and regulation prevent you from fixing things for a profit

>shit stays fucked

>>13805753

>at least we get a scapegoat!

Not worth it. The public can self moderate, the government is a top down system.

>>13805749

You're the one that stated that because I think eating and mating are good things, that I must then ascribe to the illogical indulgence of them. I was not the person to make this assertion in any way.

Why, then, do you excuse yourself from the illogical refutation of your position? It's the assertion that you decided to use, after all.

>>13805771

I asserted that you must learn to control them. You implied the contrary.

>>13805119

>>13805143

Define "real world value" in a way that a court will not throw out after reading aloud the actual definition of gambling.

Spoiler alert: Nothing defines gambling as receiving a prize that can be liquidated for U.S. currency. It only has to have value.

Yes! anything to make them stop.

>>13805781

well then define value.

>>13805786

>he wouldn't try

>being this apathetic

Sure would be a shame if someone emailed Disney about how EA is pimping out their $2 billion franchise to push gambling on kids.

Sure would be a bigger shame if this started trending on social media. Just imagine what the Mouse will do to EA once the news gets mothers frothing at the mouth.

Not like Disney has to power to bitch slap YouTube so hard they had to change their entire business model this year.

Now, where are there a group of people really good at grinding. A group that has proven themselves really really good at email campaigns. A group that loves to be paid in salt. Hmm…. I wonder…

>>13805776

I very carefully worded what I said to avoid any hint that I was supporting excessive indulgence in the activities. I only ever refereed to them as positives, with absolutely no comment on the amount or intensity of the activity.

Rather than ask for clarity on this point, you proceeded to ascribe to me a position ludicrously disproportional to anything I stated. While attempting to avoid having your same standard applied to your own position.

You are a disingenuous person more interested in winning an argument than actually discussing a topic. I feel no reason to engage this further as you will most likely twist the conversation around wherever possible as you have already demonstrated with your previous posts. I wish you the best with the rest of your day.

>>13805816

Nigger the only one being disingenuous is you. If you agreed with me, why present yourself as a contrary point?

>>13805115

Things like lootboxes should be illegal regardless for blatantly exploiting human vulnerability for profit. Video games should be something you should have to pay for exactly ONCE at absolute most

>>13805814

mage goobler gade gread again :DDD

>>13805814

>Contact Disney that they're pushing gambling on to kids

Why the fuck would Disney care? They're one of the biggest kike companies around, in fact they probably love that EA is getting kids addicted to this type of shit so they can take advantage of it themselves later.

>>13805814

>Sure would be a shame if someone emailed Disney about how EA is pimping out their $2 billion franchise to push gambling on kids.

Disney doesn't have a problem pimping gambling to kids. Have you seen how many Disney licensed games are on mobile? Disney only cares about about the backlash EA is generating to the Star Wars license, which Disney is trying to turn into a yearly entry expanded universe.

I have no doubt that Disney is getting out the cocaine and christian baby blood to whip their jew lawyers into a frenzy - but it's only due to the damage EA is doing to their brand. Fuck the children.

On the bright side, doesn't Disney own some sports team? I know they own ESPN, but even if they don't - they have major network and other corporate ties, as well as whole a large stable of properties. They could seriously fuck up EA's ability to license anything of value to the public.

Not to protect the children from predatory gambling, but as a means of exacting punitive punishment as a warning to other companies who might be tempted to drag their brands through the mud in order to make a few extra shekels.

>>13805812

wrong post buddy, gonna need to fill out a 27b-6 to correct that error, then run it by the ministry of truth

you should be notified within 50 days by the central intelligence office of public affairs if the form has gone through

of course it's gambling, whether it should be regulated or not is the only question that matters

>>13805854

To expand on this, how great would it be to see Disney enact a hostile takeover of EA, then gut them - as EA has done to some many other companies - and turn them into a shell of a company that only churns out shitty Disney licensed properties.

>>13805760

>shovelware or DLC.

i thought we were talking about lootboxes, anon-kun.

>>13805874

disney's skylanders is also a gambling platform

>>13805890

They are all forms of extracting more money from customer beyond an entry fee. The publisher does not care about how he gets more money, just how much he gets.

What happens if the gov strikes down on these two companies? Will this lead to more gov intervention?

>>13805896

>beyond an entry fee

you hate expansion packs too?

>>13805904

90% of the time yes. Rarely are they ever actual content that needed that money to be produced.

>>13805898

Of course not, the government has never once used dipshit's cries for more regulation and

>muh chilldren

whining to get more excuses to intervene wherever it pleases.

>>13805925

Show me some DLC that was worth the money and was made in the past decade.

>>13805927

If its DLC as in what replaced Expansion packs then plenty.

>>13805945

Well, get posting. Only thing I can think of was FC blood dragon, and that was stand alone anyway.

Yes. The only possible exception would be a loot box in a game where such boxes cannot be purchased with real money (and do not require keys purchased with real money to open) and are obtained solely through in-game means.

>>13805925

>Anon, i think the problem here is not the devs or publishers, its you.

He has a point though. Most expansion packs typically consist of reskins of existing assets, no appreciable changes to the engine or mechanics, a fraction of quest/level design and a spattering of new audio assets. Yet they sell for, typically, 1/3rd the price of a new game.

Look at Far Harbor for FO4… does that "expansion" really represent 1/3rd of the content in NEW assets than what's represented in the base game? Project Diva Future Tone had three expansions - totally like 12 new songs, which cost $30 - half the price of the full game, which had 200+ songs.

Yeah, expansions are usually a blatant fucking ripoff.

>>13805950

>FC blooddragon

>Artorias expansion for Dark Souls

>3/4ths the Expansions for Fallout NV.

>Warband for Mount and Blade

>Dark Arisen for DD

>>13805301

In some cases, the argument of 'lack of value' becomes a moot point. Older iterations of Dota 2 had super rare cosmetic items, such as couriers, that sold in a market for upwards of hundred s of thousands of dollars; the Dota 2 dev team had to step in and change that system, inevitably making those trades worthless by breaking the special effects down into socketable gems for the items. The market effectively collapsed, when people before were literally travelling around the world to sell digital cosmetic items for video games, items with 'no inherent value or consideration' for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

SW:B2 and Overshit don't, as far as I'm aware, have tradeable items, but your breakdown is probably the best I've seen yet, and should be shoved into the face of anyone defending this shit.

>Is it extortion, or is it gambling?

>>13805119

"real world value"

Yeah you can you fucking shill. It's called money.

>>13806066

explain how you get money from overwatch lootboxes.

>>13805649

>A mouse is still smart enough to run away from a cat.

<Cat's aren't smart enough to know how not to be misogynist racist bigots

Yes I'm sure.

>>13806071

>Wasting money on pixels

It's worse than gambling. All those games and especially those phone freemium games should die in a fire.

Leave no AAA publisher standing.

>>13806071

You can sell your account online for money, and the amount of money it is worth can be increased by having rare skins.

The fact is that those skins have real world value because people are willing to pay real money for them. So, you are gambling for something with real world value.

>>13806106

And the devs nor publisher have anything to do with that. It's not their fault, and even then, it only holds value to the person who buys it, it could have more or less. Steam assigns value on it via the marketplace, so it counts, overwatch does not except through a "black market".

>>13806128

Goyim defended much dumber shit, it's nothing new.

>>13806102

this. whatever fucks over AAA and damages the gaming industry as a whole is what would be best.

then games can return to being passion projects rather than money schemes.

>>13806119

It still is gambling because it has real value. Drugs are illegal, but if I play a game where I pay money to roll a dice, and if I get the correct number, I can have some illegal drugs worth more than what I paid, then that is still gambling, even if those drugs can only be sold on the black market.

>>13806148

So if I start playing a shell game with passersbys and offer pieces of my hair as the reward, it becomes gambling once an autist wants my hair? Using your logic everything that is random and has a reward become gambling once someone somewhere deems it valuable.

>>13806158

>everything that is random and has a reward become gambling once someone somewhere deems it valuable.

Yeah.

Yes.

>>13806165

That's fucking stupid. So I can just go into court claiming that Pokémon is gambling because I traded a a shiny for money?

>>13805115

Yes

>>13805118

Hasn't thought about it hard enough.

>>13806178

You only had to pay for your pokemon game once, and you can try again as many times as you want, so the chances of you getting a shiny are 100% for this purchase as long as you put in enough time.

If you had to buy a new copy of pokemon to have a chance to catch a shiny, it would be gambling.

>>13805769

This. The only way to stop lootboxes effectively is to mock the ever living fuck out of anyone that buys them.

Ironically that seems to be the only way to get anything done now.

>>13806188

Incorrect. Even of you had a 1 in 65536 chance of NOT getting a shiny, its not guaranteed. You assume 2m sales, that's over 3% of the players won't find one. Of course there's multiple encounters, many in fact, that makes the crawl towards 0% or 100% depending on your view but its never a guarantee

>>13806188

No, I mean if I paid someone else who has a shiny to trade it to me. You are using this logic to claim overwatch is gambling, because you can buy and sell accounts on your own.

>>13806145

Beautiful, with them already in Reddits negative spotlight there should be a lot of public support against them. Not that it will affect a judge's ruling but it should sour them otherwise

>>13806145

(((EA))) will defend to the death their fantastic new business model.

But shit, they're just going to argue that the experience of gambling behind getting lootboxes and unboxing them is just part of the game; like how walking around and shooting people is part of the game, so is unboxing crates.

If the investigation is inconclusive, EA gets to keep being a black hole in the industry.

If it's conclusive, the precedent for regulating games with lootcrates takes hold. The terminology that would be used to make the regulation stick would be loosely termed "in-game gambling", which wouldn't just apply to lootboxes. It'd apply to anything the customer pays for that changes the game experience.

But hey, that might be good. The customer now is able to pay for everything and content isn't hidden behind random chance.

It could also be bad because the terminology that would be used will also apply to anything luck-based in the game. DLC wouldn't be affected at all since it's just a (((business model))), but loot-boxes would either stop randomly giving out items or stop existing altogether. The problem then would be shifting the (((business model))) to something more profitable, which would be: random drops and random drop chance extenders.

And then THAT falls under gambling, because it involves random chance and different customer experience. But again because it's a (((business model))), and having no players with random drops to show off for other people to buy, the lawyers for (((EA))) would just shift the issue to something that they would think can't be handled.

That would be: "Well, having random drops is part of the experience of the player. That is what they paid for, after all."

And if it sticks and nothing comes about, that's fine and EA can still be a fucking black hole.

If it doesn't stick, then video games themselves would become "gambling" and fall under regulation.

>>13806206

It's true that it's not a 100% guarantee, but you can do as many encounters as you want, so over time it will approach 100% and the chance of not getting a shiny will be negligible.

Try the 1/65536 chance and think about the probability of not getting a shiny after 100 encounters. It's a statistically insignificant value.

>>13806211

The only thing that was bought was the time it took to get the shiny. The shiny itself is valuable, but it's not being acquired through gambling because I have a 99.9999999…% chance of getting a shiny. Overwatch skins are valuable and are being gambled for, conversely.

>>13806243

Anything detrimental to the current industry is good, pirates will fix what is broken beyond the good

>>13806247

Hey dickass, overwatch crates can be ground for infinitely just like Pokémon. You don't have to ever buy a single one. So buy your own definition, buying and selling of accounts is the buying of time, rather than the item, because you'll get it eventually.

>>13805607

Kill yourself.

>>13806257

I can play poker and win $10, or I can work some job for an hour and earn $10 for my time. Yet, poker is still gambling.

If I can buy overwatch crates, it's gambling. There being other ways to obtain the crates doesn't invalidate that the way of obtaining the crates through purchases is gambling.

>>13806275

it would mark the first time /v/ has ever been correct about anything, so no.

>>13806282

I think we had premonitions about the TORtanic though.

>>13806280

>I can play poker and win $10, or I can work some job for an hour and earn $10 for my time. Yet, poker is still gambling

What does that have to do with fucking anything? You are guaranteed to get those 10 dollars in exchange for your labor for the job, with poker it's only by chance and some skill you do.

>There being other ways to obtain the crates doesn't invalidate that the way of obtaining the crates through purchases is gambling.

Yes it does, for it to be gambling there must be a buy in, so having a lack of a buy in makes it not gambling.

>>13806293

The first point is an analogy about how the way the $10 is obtained can change whether or not it is gambling or not, in the exact same way that whether or not I paid for the products of my loot box or ground for it can change whether the items I got were obtained through gambling or not.

There is a buy in if you purchase the box. So, if you obtain an item through a purchased box, you obtained it through gambling.

Yes, it is absolutely gambling. However, there are elements within the government that would try to co-opt any potential legislation to inject it with their social justice horseshit. I'd expect any legislation to have "anti-right wing extremism" clauses tacked on to them. Its an ugly situation, but this is perhaps the one time I'd want the public at large to take the ESRB's (read: NOT a government agency) word on it and drop the subject.

>>13806302

But using your logic, they're not buying in, they're buying time.

>>13806313

It depends on how the crate was obtained. If you pay real money for the crate, it's gambling.

In the same way that, if I collect $10 from a game of poker, I am not collecting time.

>>13805115

Reminder that there was a poll that showed that the 53% of the playerbase of Overwatch has paid for lootboxes, between $10 and $20 per user

Disregard all butthurt whales and shills, that's why they are coming in masse to this thread, to defend their vanity.

>>13806275

>Does that mean TF2 will witness the death and birth of Overwatch?

Since TF2 has been dead for years, no.

>>13806320

Even if it was gambling, it wouldn't go away.

You'll get increased fed oversight and a bunch of extra paperwork, but the system and the whales that support it will still be there, and battlefront 2 would still be a $60 game with $2100 of microtransactions.

Source: I work in a pulltab shop, and those whales are where my paycheck comes from

>>13806364

>people

f2p brs, ponyfags and congaliners

>>13805115

depends on if you can put money in to it.

if not, no more than the game corner in pokemon.

>>13806351

I just think that it's important to acknowledge it as gambling. I don't think that cancer should be defended, is all.

>>13806369

Calling it gambling legitimizes it in a way though.

Let's not forget that they're not only selling $2100 of loot crates, they're also charging $60 just to get in the door to blow your money on pulltabs loot crates.

>>13806369

>I don't think that cancer should be defended

theres certainly worse free to play mechanics. such as the ones that limit your play time, or that shit ea tried to pull with dungeon keeper mobile. i wouldnt mind the overwatch system, gives them a reason to add cosmetic doodads that we probably wouldnt see much of otherwise.

now, if only it were a good game, and not a 40 dollar game.

>>13806381

>Calling it gambling legitimizes it in a way though.

How? People who go to a casino understand the implications and risks of going to the casino. People going to play a video game that contains gambling are participating in gambling without that kind of self-awareness.

>>13806387

This is the fallacy of relative privation.

Just because worse things are happening, doesn't mean you should ignore bad things.

>>13805115

It honestly doesn't matter, if lootboxes have to go for legal reason they'll keep microtransaction and turn them into direct ingame advantages instead (Pay X for infinite ammo, pay X for Y amount of wallhax etc) which would be bad too.

>>13806366

>Not mentioning tumblrinas who barely touched the game, asscancerous e-athletes (one of them recently died btw), and e-celebs.

The only thing I cannot fucking believe is that one hit wonder cosmetics are possible due to trouble with other devs and/or fucked settings like the replay hat.

>>13806423

>How?

Making money by running a recognized form of gambling, such as a casino or a pulltab shop, doesn't have the sort of stigma that makes them go away.

I don't know about you, but I damn well want microtransactions in full-price games to go the fuck away.

>>13806434

But berg is an atheist name nowadays.

>it's not gambling because the prizes aren't real!

>it's not porn because the tits aren't real!

>it's not violence because the murder isn't real!

>>13806423

>Just because worse things are happening, doesn't mean you should ignore bad things.

absolutely. i just dont think its necessarily a bad thing, id almost call it practical. when its not something thats affecting gameplay and the default character outfits dont look horrendous on purpose to try to taunt you in to spending money boxes then i dont really take issue with it. the only bad here is that i dont get to look cool/ridiculous whenever i want. but in the end thats hopefully never why i was playing the game.

i cant see it as any worse than random drops in mmropgs. people grind mmorpgs with low drop rates for rare in game swag that affects their performance while paying a monthly fee and very few people ever had issues with this set up. but maybe that has a lot to do with it being an rpg in the first place. but it trying to drag out its content made sure you were entertained a while longer than if you just blazed through everything while the game threw every piece of gear at you. and some people even felt proud of having the dedication to get whatever perfect set up. a common complaint with mmorpgs is always a lack of things to do at the end game. and while i think its silly to rush to the end of a game and then complain that its over, im not an mmorpg guy in the first place.

>>13806472

>i cant see it as any worse than…

Same exact fallacy as before. I don't get the point of the rest of the post.

I'll try again:

It's bad because you're paying money for content after you have bought the game.

It's bad because it's gambling disguised as something else.

>>13806494

of course im not ignoring that

>>13806508

>im not ignoring that

>>13806472

> i just dont think its necessarily a bad thing

Which is it?

>>13805301

>lootboxes have no inherent value, provide no service

Since this is under the "games as a service" model where "you don't own shit goy", it could be easily argued that lootboxes contain additional services, much like DLC would be catergorized. It's just randomized, shitty, DLC. If you want to argue this has no value, you'd be doing the same for the game itself, since "you don't own shit goy".

Pirate everything.

>>13806512

im not ignoring that there are negative aspects to it, i do not see it as a strictly bad thing

>>13806211

That's a transaction.

Gambling- "take risky action in the hope of a desired result."

If that guy has 100 pokemon, most are shit, some are good and one is a shiny, and you pay him for a random pokemon that may or may not be the shiny you want then it's gambling.

The only reason lootcrates were not considered gambling is because they exploit a loophole in most laws, because you tecnically get 'something' for your money, they can claim it's not gambling. Want a skin? Too bad, you got a spray, but you still got your money's worth, even if you would never buy a spray for real money. That's how they got around the laws, but people are catching up, and I can guarantee that it will fall under gambling laws sooner, rather than later.

>>13806546

I'd rather they get filed under 'violations of consumer protection laws' since that will actually make the practice go away rather than just get a little extra fed oversight.

>>13805811

>Building a wall is pointless

>Illegal immigrants can boarder hop and get visas that will expire, they've been doing it for decades

>>13806552

I'd be happy with an AO rating and huge stickers labeling as gambling. If an adult whale wants to piss away his autism bux that's on him. I just don't want kids to grow up thinking this shit is normal. Under 18's shouldn't fucking gamble, it's boarderline ilegal as it is. Get kids involved and you get a huge scandal waiting to happen.

>>13806188

>If you had to buy a new copy of pokemon to have a chance to catch a shiny, it would be gambling.

That is literally what pokeman is. I think you forgot a few words.

<If you had to buy a new copy of pokemon [every time you want] to have a chance to catch a shiny, it would be gambling.

>>13806433

>doesn't have the sort of stigma that makes them go away.

They are illegal in many places and age restricted to 21 in others. Because of the varying differences in regions, they would not be able to release their one size fits all age ratings in the US with ESRB, PEGI, etc., nor would they be able to hit those target T for teen, M for mature, PEGI 16, etc. ratings that are vital to marketing. It would put up so many roadblocks as to make it more financially favorable to not have them in.

>>13806145

>EA says it's not.

Dat nigga in the alley says rollin bones ain't gamblin son, it's just playin dice. With money.

Can you spot me a 5?

>>13806472

>and the default character outfits dont look horrendous on purpose to try to taunt you in to spending money boxes

Who decides this?

>>13806552

>I'd rather they get filed under 'violations of consumer protection laws'

This is also a very reasonable solution, but you would have to make entirely new laws.

>>13806619

everyone involved in the process decides, including the customers. if they did go that route, it would be harder to market the characters. unless they wanted the official look of the characters to be something you had to earn, which would surely be met with more backlash than its worth.

>>13805120

The part where the house wins every time because you get nothing of intrinsic value. :^)

>>13806630

>unless they wanted the official look of the characters to be something you had to earn, which would surely be met with more backlash than its worth.

Look at almost any fucking MMO. Do they advertise what you start as when you're a noob? Or do they advertise those rare 0.002% gear drops and ebin concept art character designs?

>>13806637

in general i thought they advertised with their own characters, rather than players avatars.

>>13806569

That's correct, thanks

>>13806606

I responded to this here: >>13806148

>>13805403

<Just because people willingly get scammed, doesn't mean scamming people is okay.

>On who's authority?

So false advertising is totally fine and legal? Scamming people is a-o-kay, right?

>>13806519

That reasoning still doesn't work, since the game itself is the service - and it already includes the mechancis and prizes in the cover charge. You don't own the product, but you are still licensed to access it and all of it's contents until the end of the term. There is no additional service.

If it were an additional service, they would have to set up a separate launcher or plug-in app which handled all of the microtransactions - which may be required, but is not included in the base game you have the rights to access.

>>13805654

>Give a kid an allowance, and they blow it all on lootcrate

>they learn to only play games that give them the most bang for their buck.

You poor naive fool.

>>13806706

>and it already includes the mechancis and prizes in the cover charge.

It includes the opportunity to earn them, or pay for them. You do not have access unless you do one of these two things.

>you are still licensed to access it and all of it's contents

You are licensed to access it through effort or pay to skip that effort. If I pay for the opportunity to run through an obstacle course with donut at the end, but it also comes with the opportunity to buy a donut immediately while still having access to the course, do I have the donut the moment I pay the first fee which grants access to the course and the second fee? There is no way to go directly to the end of the course, and if I tried to go around it (cheating), I can be kicked out of the course immediately and permanently (banned from the servers / revocation of the license to play).

>>13805584

>as the definition of "GAME" would require a degree of luck

Where'd you get this?

>>13805604

>>13805626

The ESRB is the ESA is the industry. They would not allow it. The ESRB has already released its statment(s).

>>13805165

There was actually an arcade in Hunstanton (tiny seaside town in England) that went around in about 1997 and slapped "over 18's only" stickers on EVERY machine, not just the gamblers, even the "innocent gambling" like the coin falls, and even the ones with no cash prizes at all, like Time Crisis. My brother and I were fucked the fuck off, to say the least.

>>13805708

This is too simple a mindset. The games are made with these systems in mind. Simply removing them doesn't necessarily reverse the damage done to the overall design of the game as result of their presence in the planning stages, and quite likely will not in most cases. For instance, wasn't there a supposedly much better Stars Wars game being made that EA fucked so it could be replaced with this garbage?

>>13806243

Lootboxes are a business model. It's the business model that is the problem in question.

>>13806329

>redtext

Reminder that we've had a shit fucking ton of Overmeme threads. The apologists are among us.

The behavior of loot boxes is designed around the same principle as gambling. in terms of dopamine triggers and responses of the human brain and your not even winning real money.

>>13805115

If the boxes or the means to open them can be bought directly from the devs/publisher through an ingame transaction and the contents can then be sold/bartered/gambled away for a real world value, then yes I'd say they were gambling.

>>13812745

>and the contents can then be sold/bartered/gambled away for a real world value

So it's gambling if people can illegally sell their accounts?

>>13805115

You're not guaranteed anything with a lootbox, you're given 'a chance' so it's essentially a tombola/raffle/lottery. So yes and really shitty gambling at that.

>>13805147

True but the fact that those options exist is indicative of cancer in the industry, as if that weren't blatant in the first place.