/v/ - Video Games

When we first did our game prototype the biggest feedback was that combat didn't feel satisfactory. Once I went in and added hitstop, the change was night and day. It's the single most powerful tool for satisfactory hits, but it's also very easy to overdo.

>>13669945

fortunately, if well implemented it can be easy to control the number of frames hitstop would be active for. I really liked the way Mega Man X6 handled it with Zero, it would create large screen wide beams with each slash that would strike enemies intercepting with the beams.

>>13669945

I would agree it's the most important thing for a satisfying hit, followed by sound and actor reaction. It's one of those things that no one notices until it's not there, then they're not sure why it doesn't feel right.

As monhun player i have to agree. Without hitstop the 3rd GS charge wouldn't feel as cool as it does.

Other game that could benefit from this was skyrim, we all know meele in this game fucking sucks and simple design choice like hitstop could improve it a bit.

Hitstop always makes meele combat feel "stronger"

If the game has very precise platforming, then hitstop can throw off your mental timing and make you screw up.

>>13669974

>Other game that could benefit from this was skyrim

>>13669974

the majority of western designers seem very unaware of the concept of hit stop it seems, if skyrim and the witcher games are something of note.

>>13669977

I disagree, many platforming games with melee combat make use of it very well. Goemon's Great Adventure comes to mind, there's a sense of punctuality to nailing an enemy in the air as you land on a platform, sort of like it firmly secures your triumph over the obstacle.

>>13669904

Hitstop alone doesn't make combat good, and excessive hitstop or bullet time just make things feel very unfun. You still need good animations and audio cues to make things work. It needs to be subtle, so as to not harm the pacing of the general gameplay. The most it should really functionally do is just give the player a few additional frames to buffer a following input.

>>13669983

When there's a lot of moving parts in the level, it gives everything a rhythm to follow, but that's thrown off with hitstop and your mind has to readjust accordingly.

>>13669995

Some games use extreme hit stop as a sort of congratulations, we're all familiar with a final attack on an enemy being a prolonged sort of hitstop followed by a death animation. It can be extremely satisfying on bosses. I think the Final Fantasy games make a sort of use of this same practice in theory with bosses taking an especially long time to fade away once killed.

>>13670002

I haven't seen any examples of this.

>>13669977

You're quite correct triple-dubs-man. Although not quite in single player, but in co-op in can be hell. I've played Cuphead co-op with my brother, the game has a hitstop on its parry move. Whenever we both had to parry, whoever had to do it second would fail, since the first parry's hitstop threw off his timing.

>>13670025

interesting, maybe a hitstop solution for both players would be in order, where it only affects the two objects rather than everything?

>>13670002

alot of 16-bit era 2D platformers made use of this to give weight to the attacks. i've never heard of it interfering with movement before. can you give an example of a game where it interferes with the movement?

>>13670035

That's the correct solution, and one we've applied to our game. The player perceives only themselves so even if the surrounding objects keep moving, it still "feels" like a hitstop.

>>13670038 this seems like a good example >>13670025

>>13670035

thats the way its supposed to function. battletoads for NES had no problem with the hitstop during coop. it only effects you and the person youre hitting.

>>13670047

sounds like it's a problem just for cuphead then. What a shame, but I'll be honest watching game play of it, it never did quite strike that point of satisfaction I think games like gunstar heroes or midnight resistance could.

>>13670009

>I haven't seen any examples of this.

I have a vague memory of a game doing it but I have no idea what it might have been.

I keep thinking about the white palace from Hollow Knight and what a pain it would be if you had hitstop when you hit something while moving through precise platforming sections as you sometimes have to hit something as you go.

>>13670053

I think ori and the blind forest may have had mild issues with hitstop as well. It's been a while since I played it.

>>13670058

Was it hitsptop or was it before you even hit? I think it was when you got near an enemy it would slowdown so you could take aim to where you wanted to launch yourself.

>>13670063

I think the game had hitstop upon completing a bash, it would slow down for you once you engaged it, but until execution it just did that slowed down state.

I personally think the bash move could have been better off if it relied on players movement input, simplified directional control (8 vs 360) and didn't have that slow down. I think this would have made bash a little harder to perform, but far more satisfactory to pull off. In a sense, I feel the bash we got undersold an interesting new mechanic.

I've only ever noticed it in 2d fighting games. Some DMC moves too I guess.

>>13669904

Pretty much mandatory for any games with melee/physical combat. Really adds the sensation of impact or lack of it.

Smash 4 feels alright, has a mechanic where you can slightly change your position if you quickly input a direction while being hit-stopped by an opponen's move.

In Ragnarok Battle Offline hitstop has a huge role in the combat, since you can cancel almost every move into another one if you do it while hit-stopping.

>>13670078

Dragon's Dogma has a metric fuckton of hitstop, especially warrior class, and it's one of the main reasons why the charge arcs feel so satisfying.