/tech/ - Technology★

tell >>993290 this is why

>>>/cuck/

>why older operating systems like DOS were simple and small, yet worked?

because they don't do half of what OSs do now. less features, less room for bugs and easier to maintain

>why isn't linux kernel just small core OS

-

>why templeOS could be small but strong and advanced?

[citation needed]

>why even 20 year old proprietary OS like windows2000 or windows95 is so superior in everyday activities than linux shit?

[CITATION NEEDED]

>superior to any linux shit player developed by 1000 people?

<what is mpv

<what is ffmpeg (which foobar2000 uses!)

what you describe is already being done in FOSS projects. maybe not the popular ones you look at.

>>995942

ur

>>995965

gay

>>995990

>But have they?

https://www.twitter.com/zerodium/status/1039127214602641409

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/mfsa2018-24/

If you want a small, tight OS, you'll have to settle on a small set of hardware. That's the only way Terry Davis got his OS under 100K LOC. He only supports amd64, 640x480 16-color VGA, PC speaker, two simple and related filesystems. There's no networking, USB, or other various devices and interfaces. There's no other architectures. If such things were added, they would require more code. RISC OS is also small compared to Linux, but only runs on a small subset of available ARM devices, and only supports a small fraction of peripherals and stuff like filesystems that Linux does.

There's no magic, just design decisions. You're not getting anything for free.

>why older operating systems like DOS were simple and small, yet worked?

Because you do not know what the fuck you're talking about.

Those systems kinda worked, had massive security holes, and implicitly made assumptions about the hardware that aren't even close to true nowadays.

Look at the ludicrous amount of work Microsoft did to try and fix Windows scheduling on machines with many processors if you want an extreme example.

Also /pol/ is that way.

>commie license

What we need is a Hitler license, one which is basically two clause BSD but has a third clause requiring Hitler be praised, and commie jews gassed, visibly on startup. If it's a "web app" it must be on the landing or login page.

"Anti-Semitism" is kryptonite to the corporation.

Also /pol/ masterrace you commie lain faggots!

>>996106

I want that license.

>>996057

>If you want a small, tight OS, you'll have to settle on a small set of hardware. That's the only way Terry Davis got his OS under 100K LOC. He only supports amd64, 640x480 16-color VGA, PC speaker, two simple and related filesystems.

Why isn't there a single hardware abstraction layer that all hardware producers would be forced to use? So you would have many audio or lan cards, but all of them would have to use same interface, for OS every card would be managed in same way.

there would be no (((drivers))) that have direct memory access and other shit, only a default system driver.

and what's even the point of so many different lan cards? they all are the same. the only difference is speed they support and backdoors they implement.

instead of having 1000 different capitalistic lan cards, we could nationalize that and have one communist 100mbit card, one 1000mbit card etc.

>There's no networking, USB, or other various devices and interfaces. There's no other architectures. If such things were added, they would require more code.

but not millions like stupid linux

>There's no magic, just design decisions. You're not getting anything for free.

open source design choices are bad

>>996106

>and commie jews gassed

You have been watching too much Hollywood.

>>996205

>Why isn't there a single hardware abstraction layer

There is. It's called a kernel. You can read more at kernel.org.

>all hardware producers would be forced to use?

So regulations are terrible until the free market doesn't give you something you want? Imagine if every processor was forced to implement some government mandated interface. We'd still be using 8086.

>>There's no magic, just design decisions. You're not getting anything for free.

>open source design choices are bad

Then go back to windows, faggot, and see how much better it is. Or better yet, try redoing it yourself and see if you do better

>protip: you won't because you can't

>>996054

>https://www.twitter.com/zerodium/status/1039127214602641409

>https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/mfsa2018-24/

>(((javascript)))

why am I not surprised?

was javascript made in israel?

Stallman will set us free, anons.

>>996057

Chuck Moore's colorForth was well under 100K lines of source (Probably under 100K bytes), and had all those features, plus USB. There's even source code for Intel 10/100 Ethernet cards and a TCP/IP stack floating around. Terry is a fucking fraud

Nice visionary post OP. But count on /tech/ fanboys to miss the point as usual. What's your answer though, OP? How do we get from the current shitty situation to at least something decent?

openbsd solves most of your issues. they're obsessed with code quality. the whole os, not just the kernel, but the whole os, has the be approved of by dictator theo. there is nobody dropping in to shit on the system, instead the team does everything they can to unshit various pieces of software. like x, and openssl

>The world doesn't live off jam and fancy perfumes - it lives off bread and meat and potatoes. Nothing changes. All the big fancy stuff is sloppy stuff that crashes. I don't need dancing baloney - I need stuff that works. That's not as pretty, and just as hard.

>Low code quality keeps haunting our entire industry. That, and sloppy programmers who don't understand the frameworks they work within. They're like plumbers high on glue.

> It's terrible, everyone is using it, and they don't realize how bad it is. And the Linux people will just stick with it and add to it rather than stepping back and saying, 'This is garbage and we should fix it.'

>on the quality of the code of the Linux kernel

>Linux people do what they do because they hate Microsoft. We do what we do because we love Unix.

>you are being the usual slimy hypocritical asshole... You may have had value ten years ago, but people will see that you don't anymore.

>To Richard Stallman

>It's the little things that make Freedom become Not Freedom.

>You are absolutely deluded, if not stupid, if you think that a worldwide collection of software engineers who can't write operating systems or applications without security holes, can then turn around and suddenly write virtualization layers without security holes.

>Our solutions provide something that is 100% right, all the time. That is the idea. The cobbled together gunk never does [...] It's unfortunate the application-level people are all caught up in cobble, cobble, cobble and just never learn how to evolve.

>On December 20 [1994], Theo de Raadt was asked to resign from the NetBSD Project by the remaining members of 'core'. This was a very difficult decision to make, and resulted from Theo's long history of rudeness towards and abuse of users and developers of NetBSD.

>>996425

Cool stuff tbh.

IDE hard disk driver
bsy 1f7 p@ 80 and if bsy ; then ;
rdy 1f7 p@ 8 and if 1f0 a! 256 ; then rdy ;
sector 1f3 a! swap p!+ /8 p!+ /8 p!+ /8 e0 or p!+ drop p!+ drop 4 * ;
read 20 sector 256 for rdy insw next drop ;
write bsy 30 sector 256 for rdy outsw next drop ;

>>996425

If I recall correctly the tiniest and yet most featured OSes are all written in assembler and/or pure machine code.

>>996213

shill

>>996205

>we could nationalize that and have one communist 100mbit card, one 1000mbit card etc

Yeah I love my nice free and open computer made and designed in venezuela/cuba/north korea, oh wait there is none. The ones made are made by capitalist corporations in fake communist China.

>>996425

Does is have a flight simulator? Can it talk to god?

>Rather than a string of 8-bit characters, colorForth interprets pre-parsed words. A word starts with 4 bits that indicate its color and function - text, number, etc. Then 28 bits of left-justified, Shannon-coded characters, averaging 5.2 bits each.

This overly complex bs vs 8-bit unsigned encoding with support for spinning 3d tanks embedded in source code? TempleOs wins.

HolyC compiled into x86 machine code vs ColorForth compiled into bytecode that has to be executed by a virtual stack machine? TempleOs wins again. (I might be wrong here, won't bother waste more time on this)

No interrupts vs Have you ever written an interrupt routine faggot?

It was interesting, but comparing it to TempleOs is quite frankly an insult to what Terry has done.

>>995990

>>>implying it's safe and non-backdoored

>Prove it isn't then.

Glad I scanned your post and saw this so I could skip reading the rest of it.

>>996565

8 bit ascii is why colorForth does in 1% of the code what takes TempleOS 100K lines. ColorForth is not overly complex. "support for 3d spinning tanks embedded in source code" is not a templeos feature. It's a feature of the hyperdoc (whatever it was called) format. stupid shit that can be implemented by anyone.

HolyC is interpreted, colorForth is pre-parsed and compiled with practically no overhead. The "virtual stack machine" runs more efficiently than TempleOS's bloaated compiled output, since it's not running an optimal single-pass optimiser on every line of input. You can implement nterrupts in regular Forth ( http://wilsonminesco.com/0-overhead_Forth_interrupts/) porting it to colorForth wouldn't be hard, just a waste of time as they literally don't matter.

>>996570

Chuck Moore uses colorForth to draw the doped substrates for the VLSI designs of his own chips (ShBoom, F18A (GA11)). ColorForth has TCP/IP and the simplest possible codebase. ColorForth uses pre-parsed input to implement one of the simplest interpreter/compilers (and single-pass optimisers) in programming. The system is so simple a pig could be taught to write clean colorForth. What did Terry do? Write another C compiler at the age of 50? Wow. Read Chuck's book faggot. https://colorforth.github.io/POL.htm

>>996530

pasting the code here doesnt make sense since it should be in color. But Chuck Moore is a genius.

>>996565

also youre fucking stupid. what is 4 + 28? wonder what that number correlates to

>>996577

>>996572

>>996571

>>996570

I got really drunk last night.

>>996718

It took him 18 years to write an OS? You worship this guy?

>>996727

I don't worship anyone, but I like that he tries to recapture the 80's hobbyist era. It's more authentic than the raspberry pi shit and other commerical so-called "retro" products. And it didn't take him this long to write it. He had other versions long ago with different names, but pretty much the same deal.

>>996727

It didn't take long to write the OS. It took 18 years to refine it.

>>996766

Don't shit on the rpi I turned mine into a thinkpad flasher and boot-lock disabler.

>>996490

Truly Lord Theo is Baste!

>>995939 (OP)

The Thirty Million Line Problem - Casey Muratori (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRE7HIO3vk)

polite sage

I feel bad for getting involved in this.

The way to manage millions of lines of code is to:

a) refactor

b) create libraries that can be individually audited

c) accept limitations and develop automated tools for fuzzing and auditing that exceed human limitations

linux is millions of lines of code, but you don't need every fucking module or every fucking branch to build it, for your platform your only looking at a much more managable amount of code and drivers, which you can put on your own tree and audit to your heart's content

3. you clearly have schizophrenia. I don't know which lolcow you are but I'm sure someone will figure it out over the course of this thread.

>>996660

if you’re the colorforth guy, can you supply me with any OS made with this stuff? i know moore learned under mccarthy, so maybe a forth + lisp machine is only natural

>3. open source community (open source niggers), free software, those philosophies just don't work. they worked on linux and firefox for decades and the result is a piece of shit, piece of nigger dog shit.

it works great on openbsd

>>996552

>Reading material:

>https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/

Interesting read, thank you.

>>1002573

>linux is millions of lines of code, but you don't need every fucking module or every fucking branch to build it, for your platform your only looking at a much more managable amount of code and drivers,

I wonder whether there's an easy way to measure how many lines of code are in a kernel compiled with specific options. I suspect in my case it's more along the lines of tens or hundreds of thousands of lines of code, rather than millions. I compile a custom kernel, and I remove support for tons of stuff I don't use, like most of the filesystems, network drivers I don't use, etc. On my desktop, I don't use a wireless card of any kind, so I got rid of mac80211 support and all drivers for PCI and USB wireless cards. That's probably tens of thousands of lines of code right there.

>which you can put on your own tree and audit to your heart's content

One could theoretically do that, yeah. But most people on /tech/ can't audit shit. I can't.

>>995939 (OP)

>implying you need millions of code just to display some text with formatting and images, with tiny real-time interaction (ajax etc)

>next generation browser should be small and modular. all additional things (javascript, css, layout engine, history) should be modules/components

Here's the problem though - HTML/CSS is cruft upon cruft, with shit being added to it with every standard. Are there any alternatives at declaring simple web layouts that you describe? Right now, it's just flexible boxes inside flexible boxes. If something like that exists, it's just a matter of bolting a good API on it for realizing AJAX and whatever other things one might need. I think modularity is the key to browsers. Prototyping a minimal program that is responsible for gluing everything together, where you could swap out a JS/layout engine would be a huge effort already.

>>995939 (OP)

U R A BASTARD. in case u didn't get it, I called u a BASTARD. }}??? : it means i understand u have trust issues - u were born to a whore unaware of who impregnated her.{{

ur rant doesn't belong in /tech.