[–]▶ No.986996>>987041 >>987043 >>987055 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Remember way back in 2010 when everyone on the planet was hyping HTML5 as the greatest thing to ever happen to the web and will replace all native applications and shit?
Remember when Steve Jobs predicted a future where app stores weren't even a thing and that iDevices would be really powerful web browsers where everything is web apps? Remember when Google doubled down on this concept with Chromebooks and ChromeOS?
Well 2010 was 8, almost 9 years ago, so lets discuss how wrong those predictions were, how right they somewhat were, and what exactly went wrong. HTML5 was expected to replace flash and all interactive applications, but in the end it ended up being used only to spice up web pages and add some nice looking animations.
▶ No.987004>>987007
>HTML5 was expected to replace flash and all interactive applications, but in the end it ended up being used only to spice up web pages and add some nice looking animations.
Which is half of what Flash did: banners and ads.
▶ No.987007>>987013 >>987225
>>987004
flash had flash games and flash games were fucking huge back before Apple and Google slowly killed it off. There was an entire culture created around flash games. Yes HTML5 games do exist but its not nearly as big of a scene as the flash scene despite HTML5 in theory being much more capable with shit like webgl
▶ No.987013>>987019 >>987029 >>987046
>>987007
You only think that because you were a little kid back when flash games were a big deal. I think you're just out of touch. My kid is constantly finding little crazy ass browser games and playing then with nothing but Firefox (plus a few plugins lie uBlock). No Flash. No JRE. No Silverlight or Moon whatever they call it.
Flash was a shit solution to a shit problem.
▶ No.987019>>987022 >>987237
>>987013
I think the only one out of touch is you and think the little games your kid is finding is any way comparable to the flash scene
▶ No.987021>>987029 >>987037 >>987100 >>987194
HTML5 is still great.
>a future where app stores weren't even a thing
so people overhyped it for their own purposes. Just compare HTML5 with prior work on web standards. HTML5 represents a victory of the practical-minded adults as opposed to
1. Google wanting to make it easier to search the web and pull out metadata (they've moved on to pushing AMP)
2. weirdos wanting strict XML or the semantic web or all kinds of bullshit with no describable benefits that don't begin "if everyone does this, then a long long time from now, you'll be able to do [unimportant thing]"
<HTML4
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<HTML5
<!doctype html>
>replace flash and all interactive applications
RPGMaker MV ain't bad. Again, it's way better than HTML4. The weird frameworks and templates and "let's not dirty our hands with emitting raw HTML" shit that people used to do is only understandable when you look at standards they dealt with. These days, you won't instantly get megacancer. Even years of working with HTML5 will only give your hair some purple highlights.
▶ No.987022>>987237
>>987019
>the flash scene
you've got 3-inch thick nostalgia glasses on.
the shitty blah.io games are way better than "the flash scene"
▶ No.987024
well HTML5 replaced flash movies that's pretty much it
▶ No.987029>>987052 >>987194
>>987021
strict XML is not [unimportant thing] nignog. the reason XSS and CSRF will never be solved is because HTML is not parseable
>>987013
and now the browser - a document viewer - has even more unnecessary API to support playing games. and no web game is even good. they'd be 100x better off if they made a real program for their game
▶ No.987037>>987884
>>987021
BS. We should use native binary blobs than run on an isolated vm enviroment.
▶ No.987041
>>986996 (OP)
Nothing went wrong at all it did indeed kill java and flash in all cases except runescape.
▶ No.987043
>>986996 (OP)
On one hand I no longer need to install Java and Flash, but on the other hand now web ""developers"" are even more encouraged to do what those two were used for.
▶ No.987046
>>987013
You are the boomer cuck. Flash games are still going and better in every cases compared to goygle/android/ayyphone shit.
▶ No.987052>>987059
>>987029
>and now the browser - a document viewer - has even more unnecessary API to support playing games. and no web game is even good. they'd be 100x better off if they made a real program for their game
What the fuck did you just say? All web games have cute anime girls. You shittin' on that?
▶ No.987053
HTML5 is all about collecting cum via Web Anime Gaymes
▶ No.987059
>>987052
no just the shitcode
▶ No.987100>>987194
>>987021
You don't NEED links to w3 for any HTML standard.
▶ No.987189
>>987055
disable_polymer=1
▶ No.987194>>987199
>>987029
>>987021
Write XHTML5 tbqh.
>>987100
YOU NEED THE XML namespace on the html element in XHTML otherwise the browser won't get that it's XHTML
▶ No.987199>>987201
>>987194
>Write XHTML5 tbqh.
This. It HTML was as strict as XML the web would be much simpler and browser development would not be in the hands of three entities because no one else can afford to keep up with the arcane mess that is HTML.
▶ No.987201
>>987199
I can still remember Wikipedia, YT and all the others using XHTML back in the day.
(((They))) probably changed that for their pajeet employees.
▶ No.987202>>987205 >>987220 >>988124
There should have been a hard break when javascript started being used to manipulate html. The web as it exists now is a bunch of thin, one-time-use applications that load inside of a sandbox, with some limited client-side space to cache and do their work. I wish we could go back and design a new standard specifically for laying out UI and doing user I/O logic so we could all write webapps in an environment specifically built for it instead of this html+js+css shit we have now.
Http for this stuff was a mistake too; if I'm using a webapp, I should have a two-way pipe to my server to push/pull data without having to do special websocket things. Regular bearkly sockets are two way anyway, just unify all the socket i/o into one paradigm. I bet a lot of security vulnerabilities would just disappear if the standard didn't provide so many cliffs for coders to jump off of.
▶ No.987205>>987221 >>987276
>>987202
The web mainly consists of text. There needs to be a standard for that. HTML or XHTML filled that gap of a universal text markup everyone supports and CSS is fast but one should only use it where appropriate (don't make tables via css just use that damn <table>).
One should refrain from using Javascript and keep it optional if even needed for anything.
You can do multifileuploads over HTML+CSS alone too. Fuck those faggots who develop imageboards and suck so hard at it.
▶ No.987220>>987276
>>987202
no. web pages shouldn't be programs. they shouldn't even be dynamically generated. programs should be programs. programs are actually faster than a snail and have better security despite not being sandboxed (that's how bad the current web is). Also PHP is shit and unfixable, despite whatever your meme book might say
▶ No.987221>>987236
>>987205
>don't make tables via css just use that damn <table>
I really hope you mean "tables" as in "tabular display of data" and not using <table> for layout.
▶ No.987224
>all the underage cuckchanners defending flash
Not long until it stops being supported
▶ No.987225>>987237 >>987248
>>987007
Come on mate, Flash games were fun but Flash was a pile of shit.
▶ No.987236
>>987221
>for layout
Kek no. What I'm saying is, is that you shouldn't use css grid or div boxing to achive what old elements like table were already doing.
▶ No.987237>>987248
>>987019
>everything was better when I was 11-16
Isn't it interesting how nearly everyone in their 20s thinks that?
Listen to >>987022 and >>987225
▶ No.987248>>987276
>>987237
>>987225
Even back then we all thought flash was a pile of shit. You're missing the point mate, the flash scene was actually fucking alive
▶ No.987276>>987278 >>987315 >>987606
>>987220
I'm aware php is shit, but there's no way you can say programs have better security than websites without sandboxing. If I send you a link to a site you've never seen before, it's probably ok to open it in a tor browser, but there's no way you'd run a random executable I linked you on the internet.
There's a market for on-demand sandboxed applications, regardless of people saying "the web should" or "the web shouldn't". My point is that it would be nice if we had technology specifically to fill this niche instead of gluing it onto a standard meant to format programmatic output.
>>987205
What happened to vt102 terminals + terminal emulators? We had a universal standard that worked just fine.
While you could do fancy tricks to make HTML+CSS do almost anything, you can reduce bandwidth to your server by using javascript to just pull updates. While it would be nice if everyone strictly supported "optional" javascript for autists like me and you, the reality is they can pay half as much for a website that still reaches 90% of their customers.
>>987248
Lets revive it :^)
http://wickeditor.com/
▶ No.987278
>>987276
>http://wickeditor.com/
Hey that's actually pretty neato
▶ No.987284>>987296 >>987321 >>987330
Just imagine the billions of people who had their online experience ruined or withheld for all this garbage making the web completely unusable.
This is absolutely unforgivable.
The UN says the internet is a human right, so why haven't they persecuted the perpetrators of these terrible crimes against humanity and made them answer for the horrors they have brought to countless innocent people?
▶ No.987296>>987318 >>987330
>>987284
>The UN says the internet is a human right,
When I was still underage I thought that idea was great, but I actually grew out of this idea of thinking, making the internet a human right is a retarded because its privately owned all the way down. The UN should've told people not to take the internet fucking seriously. All modern problems with technology come from people taking the internet seriously, all that's done is create tryhards and gave Google and Amazon validation for existence.
▶ No.987315>>987318
>>987276
but i'd install/compile something from my distro. meanwhile web browsers are full of new RCE vulns every day.
>There's a market for on-demand sandboxed applications
yes, it's been solved for like 50 years now by the capability security model, not webshit or assdroid
>My point is that it would be nice if we had technology specifically to fill this niche instead of gluing it onto a standard meant to format programmatic output.
you keep hinting at some sort of declarative programming for the web. what do you want, the entire website is a small config file that points to some data sources and has annotations saying how the data should be shown? nobody's been able to do this ever. it will be too rigid. you need full turing complete programming language to make real software for the time being
>http://wickeditor.com/
>click launch editor
>palememe freezes for the next second or so
>LOL
http://magaimg.net/img/6grc.png
▶ No.987318>>987804
>>987315
what the fuck, that website it ever overrides ctrl+w, ctrl+q and ctrl+tab. FUCK YOU. FUCK palememe too for allowing this. fuck firecuck for making this a thing. i dont even have the editor open, just the front page
>>987296
this sound like something they would have said in $CURRENTYEAR, so 2015 later, kiddo :^)
yeah fuck that. the internet is a product of what the consumers demand. if it's shit because they demand shit, they deserve to rot in it
▶ No.987321>>987329 >>987797
>>987284
>The UN says the internet is a human right,
That is just retarded.
▶ No.987329
>>987321
the UN says that everything is a human right. A prince on a pony for every little girl!
but weirdly no condemnations about the EU's take on democratic votes against it.
▶ No.987330
>>987296
>>987284
if you believe that even remotely, let me fuck up your UN religion by saying the UN is a product of US world domination strategy.
U dont believe me, check out walter lippmann, wilfred trotter and then noam chomsky to confirm that.
▶ No.987606
>>987276
>pay half as much for a website that still reaches 90% of their customers
I don't believe this.
Having the website behind js makes no sense because the js alone is as big as the actual content (not ad banners which they get paid by; they don't have to pay for their hosting) on most sites.
And now think of all the extremely low end devices these days like smart phones, tablets and smart tvs.
All of them lack processing power, may come with substandard webbrowsers which may not even support js and may not be able to display the fucking words some retard thought would have to be loaded dynamically because they're soooooooo many.
▶ No.987797>>987850 >>988120
>>987321
the internet is a basic need just as shelter and food for the 21st century. the Internet should stop being shit sold by isp companies as a service and turned into a utility.
▶ No.987804
>>987318
>that website it ever overrides ctrl+w, ctrl+q and ctrl+tab
You sure? Those all still work for me, though I'm using cmd+w
It did freeze my browser for a bit though
▶ No.987850>>987852 >>987879 >>988850
>>987797
>the internet is a basic need just as shelter and food for the 21st century. the Internet should stop being shit sold by isp companies as a service and turned into a utility.
we should nationalize internet and regulate it.
▶ No.987852
>>987850
>we should nationalize internet and regulate it.
They make laws for it anyway, so this is a good idea because it's basically infrastructure.
ISPs don't lay out those cables themselves either. There are separate companies for that. The state could replace that middleman.
The sole reason the middleman exists is because they privatized them to begin with.
▶ No.987879>>987881
>>987850
>nationalizing an international network
Shitty bait.
Might as well nationalize all the websites too, no point in free water bottles if the water inside still costs money
▶ No.987881>>987883
▶ No.987883
>>987881
Electric poles and electricity.
▶ No.987884
▶ No.988120>>988205
>>987797
>the internet is a basic need just as shelter and food for the 21st century.
That's cringy as fuck and I can't believe people actually believe this
▶ No.988124
>>987202
You just reinvented Xerox Alto or the Lisp machines basically.
▶ No.988205>>988843
>>988120
Kill yourself you retarded cuckchan nigger. Day of the rope soon.
▶ No.988843
>>988205
See how little your words changed my life? You understand what I'm saying right? The internet is a joke
▶ No.988850>>988851
>>987850
should have >>>/reddit/ before anyone could reply. now this thread has aids
▶ No.988851
>>988850
>I'll take 'Shit that never works' for 5$
▶ No.991368>>991398
It actually replaced quite a bit of Flash, but it lacks in some departments. There's no good software for making things like flash games or animations. You're stuck hardcoding it into JS and CSS3.
▶ No.991398
>>991368
I'll get flack for this but I actually blame HTML5s open decentralized nature vs Flash for this. Flash had official tools by Adobe themselves for working with it. HTML5 is open thus they sort of expect other devs to include it in web dev suites instead and this has done nothing but make general web pages feel more copy+pasted than ever before with shit like Wix.com
▶ No.997569
HTML5 sites all look like corporatized pozzworks.