/tech/ - Technology★

I forgot to add this in web dev

https://tools.suckless.org/quark/

stop posting suckless

>>970008

why?

>Fewer bugs

They can't even write curl without vulnerabilities.

>Better and faster performance

Depends.

>Lower memory footprint

Fair.

>Better maintainability

Depends.

>Higher scalability

Obviously?

>Longer software lifetime

Reaching here.

>Smaller attack surface

Hardly matters, because these idiots can't even write something like curl without critical security issues.

>suckless

>cat-v.org

Is it just one autist here that reposts this shit? They're lolcows. Go use surf as your only browser for a day and report back.

>>970017

>Is it just one autist here that reposts this shit? They're lolcows. Go use surf as your only browser for a day and report back.

>>Web browsers

>Firefox or any of the popular text based web browsers (w3m, links)

>>970003 (OP)

In the OS list, what is "meme minimal" supposed to mean?

>>970017

Surf is bloat. Posting this from links 2.16.

I use Emacs, it is minimal editor that comes with a lot of extensions included.

>>970043

text editor*

>>970043

emacs is practically an operating system. It's in no way minimal.

>>970014

Curl wasn't made by software minimalists, though. It's a big 3MB tarball.

>>970003 (OP)

>i3

No. There are a lot better candidates: bspwm and spectrwm, for example.

>firefox

Are you joking? Add netsurf.

>file manager

Could add vifm, rover and ranger (if pushing it a little).

>vim

You should add emacs, too, while you're at it.

>feh

Why? It's a 2MB tarball when sxiv is 47KB: bloated.

>>970017

Nice lack of argument, fag.

>>970096

Are you blind, i did add sxiv

>>970100

What I meant is: remove feh because it's bloated garbage.

d

r8 me r8 me

>os

debian

>wm

dwm

>browser

-dillo for general browsing

-chromium for stuff that requires JS

-w3m as html pager

>file manager

ranger, terminal when I feel like

>video

mpv

>music

mpd, mpc, ncmpcpp

>text

vim

>image

sxiv

>login shell

bash

>system shell

dash

>terminal

st

>>970109

looks pretty sane to me, ever tempted to ditch for devuan?

why dillo & w3m?

I've never heard of a html pager.

Don't forget less visible/apparent stuff:

>use wpa_supplicant and wpa_cli instead of bloated NetworkManager and nmapplet

>edit /etc/fstab for your external drives instead of using a bloated daemon like udiskie

>use i3status over i3blocks, slstatus, polybar, etc.

>console login instead of login managers

970117

>devuan

I'm honestly done distrohopping. Couple months ago I was using Parabola and I couldn't hanlde rolling release concept so I switched to debian and I'm pretty happy. setting up my configs all over again (which would take me a day or so for a new distro since it will have many little annoying differences that I would need to troubleshoot).. forget it.

>why dillo

because it's as fast as terminal browsers, or even faster than something like elinks. and it displays colors and layout sufficiently to make you make sense of the page. The only thing I'm missing in dillo is keyboard link following, but I'm not sure how someone can do that without javascript. and it doesn't display some pages that would be perfectly displayed in w3m, because, I guess the <DOCTYPE HTML> (or whatever it is) is not capitalized properly, they care so much about muh html standards. I would use netsurf but its configuration is very limited and you can't change keyboard shortcuts.

>w3m

maybe pager is the wrong term, but what I meant is that I use it to quickly display html pages, whether local or as extensions of other terminal programs (newsbeuter, mutt, etc.), or when I want to convert an html page to text for scripting purposes.

>>970117

>ever tempted to ditch for devuan?

Not the same anon, but debian and derivatives are even more pointlessly user-unfriendly than the rest of unix.

>>970046

Yet its still lighter than 90% of other IDEs... Also Emacs is not a text editor.

surf is an interesting but useless idea, though I'd like a browser where viewing the web is an addon to uBlock Origin + uMatrix, instead of the other way round.

>>970182

And Emacs' C code base is smaller than that of Vim.

>>970184

Go into your settings pane of either µBo or µMatrix. You'll notice that your filters list, you'll notice that some of your filters reference something called a "hosts". Have you ever wondered what that is? It's a simple plaintext file that maps hostnames to IP addresses. A popular hosts hack is to take a list of malicious and undesired domains and redirect that to 0.0.0.0 or 127.0.0.1. In doing so, you effectively prevent your computer from connecting to the listed domains, thus making the hosts file a viable content blocker--or, as you call it, an adblocker. Suckless has more commentary here: surf.suckless.org/files/adblock-hosts. It's an effective, domain-blocking solution that makes in-browser domain-based content blockers such as µMatrix redundant.

Now that I've mentioned it, you've probably heard references to a hosts file before, possibly in a negative light. One of the most notable flaws of a hosts file is that it's not a pattern-based content blocker like µBo. It's sufficient for blocking domains based on patterns, but what about cosmetic alterations? What if you want to discriminate between content provided by the same domain? It's true that surf supports stylesheet files that can be applied on a per-site basis, but that's a lot of effort when µBo can express the same thing in a monolithic but really tiny file. Furthermore, a hosts file isn't meant to be used as a content blocker, so a big hosts file will make things significantly slower.

That is why I use a web proxy called Privoxy. It's made for content blocking and thus significantly faster and more reliable than a hosts file. And, in addition to domain blocking based on an explicitly labelled domain, it blocks domains according to regexp. You can have specific behaviors for certain domains (which doesn't sound significant until you realize you can redirect css to custom stylesheets, disable js, block incoming and outgoing cookies, and specify what types of cookies are incoming all from Privoxy) and whitelist patterns in blocked domains, too. It can also modify web page data and HTTP, much like how µBo can alter web page data. It can be used individual or an a multi-user network (e.g. your router). It can be used as a http wrapper to your Tor socks proxy. It's completely browser-agnostic, portable, and much easier to deploy than having to augment a whole browser.

Basically, you're a meme.

>>970109

Goddamnit, I'm sick of idiots like you. Nobody is going to say someone is being minimalist because they decided to use proprietary garbage like Chromium, so what makes you think three redundant browsers makes you minimalist. I could literally use Chromium exclusively and be more minimalist than you. You use multiple shells for the sake of contrarianism, and you use multiple image viewers when you could easily use mpv to view images without the complexity. Because complexity is what you're trying to get rid of, right? This thread is about minimalism, isn't it?

>>970246

>this is what suckless.org actually believes about blocking ubiquitous, sophisticated malicious content from multiple determined persistent adversaries

>>970257

Yes? It ignoring the fact that a hosts file is practically identical to uMatrix, you can actually just write a simple cron job to fetch and cat a bunch of blocklists from actively maintained hosts files at desired intervals. In fact, you seem to be ignoring the fact that uBo uses hosts files to do their own content blocking. Using a browser extension also makes the assumption that "multiple determined persistint adversaries" are only going to distribute their "sophisticated" content from one specific, highly-anticipated platform. Like I said, hosts files are really inefficient and kind of impotent, though, compared to Privoxy.

>>970260

The issue is that the bare minimum standard for content blocking is nothing less than the best available, which is currently uBlock Origin + uMatrix. This is an arms race. This is a deal breaker on using surf for me.

I do, however, use and like dwm, dmenu and st.

>>970270

Except that Privoxy is a superior solution in all respects?

>>970286

I disagree, and I'm not alone on that.

>>970288

I disagree with your disagreement, and I'm not alone on that.

>>970298

>tabs

Fucking disgusting.

>>970270

I used to think like you and stayed with Firepozz, but since I switched to Qutebrowser (which uses a host based adblocker), I've not had any problem with insufficient adblocking.

>>970298

Why are you using a 32bit kernel on a 64bit CPU, tard? Don't tell me you fell for the x32 ABI meme.

>>970046

It minimal editor that comes with a lot of add-ons to make it useful out of the box.

>>970310

lol I probably didn't even check that when downloading the iso. There are too many iso s to download from on the debian page, it's too confusing :-< Everything just works tho, and I don't want to risk fucking up my system so it should be fine like this right?

>>970311

hello friendo.. wa-wait!! 58440 packages!!!!! have you fucking installed everything on the repository?

>>970249

you're fucking retarded. I'm not sure if bait or not, anyways, I'll bite it

>multiple shells for the sake of contrarianism

those shells are default for debian, nothing contrarian. Dash is good for writing and executing simple scripts while being POSIX compliant, and bash works just fine as interactive shell so I've never bothered changing it. Next time make sure that you put #!/bin/bash instead of #!/bin/sh at the beginning of your script to not be a pseudominimal contrarian that uses two shells!

>three redundant browsers

first, chromium is not proprietary no matter how much you screech, second, I don't like using chromium, but I have to use a browser with JS in order to access my school stuff. Doing my general daily browsing with chromium (uses 15% of my cpu) instead of dillo (uses barely %1 of my cpu) would unnecessarily use my cpu by doing useless shit other than rendering a page. I like how dillo displays pages so it has the same benefits as a terminal browser but also easier on the eyes. and I need to use w3m for displaying html shit on my terminal, but I don't want to use it for browsing, god dammit how is that complex?

>multiple image viewers

this is certainly a bait. maybe I should also stop using mpv, because, you know, you can also view videos and images with chromium. let me just fire up this bloated piece of software to view a video, see how much sense that makes? It's similarly retarded to use a powerful video player to view images instead of using a simple ass image viewer. Hold on, I think I found the pinnacle of minimalist softwares, we should all go and get the latest Chromebook!!! No need other softwares, chrome does it all anyways!!

>>970320

The first point is reasonable; however,

>first, chromium is not proprietary no matter how much you screech...

Chromium is proprietary. It has unlicensed code and downloads proprietary blobs.

>you can also view videos and images with chromium.

I was actually going to mention that, but I felt like it was implied. The difference between mpv and Chromium is that the former is a specialised application for rendering images with relevant functions and settings that would inevitably overlap with other image viewers, thus making other applications redundant.

>>970288

I think you're a moron, and I'm not alone on that.

>>970322

>no argument

>thumbnail

>>970324

Ok. Your argument makes more sense now, but even if mpv can get to sxiv's efficiency I would still use sxiv to view images. Having different software for different tasks is better in my opinion. Change these keywords (Chromium, web browser, video player) with (Konqueror, file manager, web browser), and I think it's still stupid. Konqueror is "specialized" as both file manager and web browser, so having another program for those tasks when you have Konqueror would be non minimalistic, in your opinion, am I right?

>>970286

Privoxy is useless if you're visiting an encrypted website or if you use Tor, unless you want to MITM all your connections and use privoxy to redirect all connections through Tor..

>>970280

suckless masterrace

>>970347

>Privoxy is useless if you're visiting an encrypted website or if you use Tor, unless you want to MITM all your connections and use privoxy to redirect all connections through Tor.. [sic]

But that's literally the whole point of Privoxy. Don't drop buzzwords in a sentence when you yourself know that you mean significantly less than what you connote. Proxy applications like Privoxy will help prevent some kind of leak as DNS requests that don't go thorough Tor.

It's true that Privoxy won't be able to properly filter HTTPS, but my point isn't to shill for Privoxy specifically but moreso to illustrate that they don't have to be slaves to shitty, non-portable plugins. For many people on many devices, Privoxy is the one and only means of protecting themselves, making your statement about uBo very ironic. And Privoxy is necessary in order for applications to interact with Tor over HTTP. There are SSL proxies that effectively alters HTTP headers as you implied, but Privoxy isn't one of them.

However, you can stil block specific HTTPS sites with Privoxy. It's not very sophisticated, but it does everything within the capacity of an action file, which includes regexp, blocking, and redirects, making filters kind of redundant. Admittedly, Privoxy was never as graceful as uBo as far as pattern-based content blocking, and in the context of this note, it's even less graceful, but it's not impossible to achieve the same end with a custom stylesheet.

And while what you've said so far--ignoring the ironically contemptuous with no discernible argument--are valid points, how can you say that local sort-of-a-proxy service sort of MITM'ing traffic when you yourself are implicitly toting a bloated, hulking Golaith of a program with a bullshit plugin framework where people can write extensions to do arbitrary things? You know how often an extension gets pulled from the FF/Chromium repos? Pot, meet kettle.

>>970346

I'm sorry for being adversarial before. Thank you for being patient with me, but the difference between Konqueror and mpv is that the former combines two impertinent (not to mention inherently redundant) applications, file browsing and web browsing; whereas, videos are just images interpolated over time. Konquerors' multitasking is just the artifice of a developer trying to appeal to the kitchen sink crowd; an amalgam of two simple applications into one complex application. The role of mpv as an image viewer is a deconstruction of its single intended purpose as a video player which reveals that it's actually, in principle, a glorified image viewer, and, at both points, it's a single simple application.

>>970311

what web browser is that?

>>970822

surf.

>>970120

Just use a 20 line bash/dmenu script for mounting/unmounting drives

>>971088

hackathons are usually not actually very productive

>>971089

>are usually not actually very

Hello, Pajeet.

>>971090

fuck off it's valid english

>>971092

>So they just drink beer there and socialize

yes

>>970003 (OP)

>- Fewer bugs

>- Better and faster performance

>- Lower memory footprint

>- Better maintainability

>- Higher scalability

>- Longer software lifetime

>- Smaller attack surface

In other word software minimalism = good software.

>>970327

I think you (((work in advertising))), and I'm not alone in that.

>>971188

>>- Better and faster performance

Usually wrong

>>- Higher scalability

Usually wrong

>>971318

>nope.The more resources your program wastes, the slower it is (in 99% of cases)

Simple code != fast, simple code != low memory usage. In fact optimization INCREASES complexity in most cases. Fast code is anti suckless.

>>971318

>lynx has gopher support

See also gopher://bitreich.org/scm/sacc/files.gph

Irc is such a simple protocol that you can roll a usable client in ~60 lines of shell code. Now that's minimal.

>>971088

Seems that slcon is just an excuse for the NEET to MEET, but OpenBSD releases detailed hackathon reports on undeadly.org.

>>971318

><But you can replace all other programs (even your X11 WM, login shell and web browser, if you want to) in your system with it. how is that not minimal?

It's minimal because those are implemented in Elisp and interpreted by Emacs' C core, not the default state of Emacs. That's like saying C isn't minimal because your X11 WM, login shell, and web browser are written in C.

>>970811

Why did you get so mad? I'm not the anon you were originally arguing with.

I only pointed out that you literally can't use Privoxy to filter encrypted connections with Privoxy unless you sslstrip yourself, that would cause your broswer to complain about invalid certificates, so that Privoxy can filter crap.

>>971592

Sorry. It was just kind of annoying. I was sincerely trying to give good advice, and the only thing he said was "I disagree" without a rebuttal. Actually, and this is true of any web proxy, but you can actually just add the necessary certificate to your browser if that's what you want to do.

I'm using debian and thinking about switching to gentoo. Mainly because of the extreme customizability.

I want to debloat the linux kernel (don't know how)

I want to know how useflags work(don't know how)

compiling from source also seems like a benefit (forgot the benefits)

But yeah, if any long time gentoo user can convince and tell me it will be worth it, i'll use it.

Is cloudfare bloat?

What should i use?

>>971592

>>971603

>not forking Privoxy and drastically improving it

>>971943

The issue is not with privoxy itself here, but with where it sits in the pipeline.

>>971957

yea, just stick with debian or gentoo fgt

>>97194

Yes, and you don't need to have anything like cloudflare

>/sm/ - Software Minimalism

use a fucking radio and paper then

>>972731

Not a bad suggestion, honestly.

I wonder how functional is Wine on Alpine. Would it be possible to run old games on it?

>>972849

I don't see why wine wouldn't be functional on Alpine. They use musl as their libc but if they can get wine compiled and working in their repos then it should be fine.

>dwm

best wm for me

>firefox

sleek minimal, no poz

>terminal

keys = text, so simple and precise

>vim

keys = maybe text, such a paradigm shift of elegance

>Unix

text text text what's more minimal than parsing text to parse text to parse text, nothing

>Suckless

Suck but less, so minimal and to the point. like don't be good just suck less, words to live by

>cat-v

fucking cat bloat disgusting makes me want to vomit

>>973178

> Firefox minimal

I think you are confused

>>973550

>replying to bait

>>970298

How is life without your appendix?

I have the following set up as "external browsers" in my w3m options, they allow me to asyncronously view images, pdfs, audio, & video with a painless hotkey.

nohup mpv --ytdl-format=webm+bestaudio/720p --slang=en $1 &
nohup viewer.sh $1 &

Imgur gets special treatment because their website is popular and especially shit, but the script is still exceedingly simple because mupdf is amazing.

#!/bin/ksh

tmp=$(mktemp -d)
trap 'rm -rf $tmp' EXIT

if [[ ($1 = *"imgur"*) && ($1 != *"i.imgur"*) ]]
        then
        url=$(echo $1/zip | sed "s/gallery/a/g")
        else
        url=$1
fi

cd $tmp
ftp $url
mupdf *

Asfar as future work goes, I'm considering switching over to emacs inoder to get a bit more of a unified interface and additional scripting options for my cli applications. w3m is my only browser for a few months now. The reason I use it is that I tend to focus a bit better with it, I'm not sure why considering the content for the most part is the same. I've found myself read quite a few more books rather than doing whatever I was doing before, which I like.

>>973587

>I tend to focus a bit better with it, I'm not sure why considering the content for the most part is the same.

The reason pertains to mediation and context.

https://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/inspiration.html

http://ix.io/1n6B

http://theody.net/elements.html

This is the end user's argument for software minimalism: heavily mediated computer interfaces condition/program the user like a Skinner box. Minimalist and textual interfaces tend to do this less as they require the constant use of discursive reason.

>>973596

This is the issue I have with firefox, where they add your "top sites" to about:newtab. Even worse when they add their cancerous suggestions.

Other browsers do this as well I guess. It really enables mindless browsing. Anyway, changing it back to a blank page makes for a much more pleasant experience.

>>973587

I think your setup mimics more or less exactly what "browsing the internet" should have been.

>>973587

Seems it was a bit too early for spelling. :)

>>973596

I haven't quite finished "In the Beginning was the Command Line" yet, but I enjoyed the other two reads, thanks. I think I agree with the assessment overall, the following particularly resinated:

>too much time spent reacting, not enough spent in active analysis and expression. In short, image-culture burnout.

>>973601

>I think your setup mimics more or less exactly what "browsing the internet" should have been.

wow, thanks dude. It certainly still has implementation issues of sorts but conceptually I like it.

Anyone else here use vis instead of vim? Lua plugins are much more comfy than vimscript and it is way less bloated.

Also how bloated is qutebrowser? I can't handle firefucko anymore and I need a JS capable browser quite often. Been messing around with qutebrowser and it feels great to use.

>>973550

>the web, minimal

i hate retards

>>973633

>I can't handle firefucko anymore

firefox quantum is literally god tier

what's wrong with it?

>>973633

I use vis, but I think I can go for something simpler, since I don't really use all of it's features.

Didn't even touch lua parts, outside of configuring color theme once.

qutebrowser is webkit based, and as webkit-based browsers go, you might as well go use suckless's surf, imho. Webkit is rather unstable though, at least for me.

>>973669

maybe just sam?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_(text_editor)

>>973596

>http://theody.net/elements.html

That's UNIX weenie propaganda, appealing to people who want to be considered smart. Nothing in that article is about what you can actually do in UNIX or what makes UNIX better, it's all about being able to feel intelligent because you can use shitty "tools."

>In the late 1980s, I worked in the advanced R&D arm of the Silicon Valley's regional telephone company.

"Regional telephone company" means a Baby Bell, which was split from AT&T.

>the manager had confided he was indeed intimidated by the intelligence of the group, and was taking steps to remedy the situation. His prescription, though, was unanticipated: “I need to become more of an intellectual,” he said. “I'm going to learn UNIX.”

If this article was satire, he couldn't have written this any better. He might as well say the manager took an IQ test before and after UNIX and it went up 100 points.

>many of the UNIX-philiacs I met came from schools with small or absent computer science departments.

It's because computer scientists had a different goal than UNIX weenies. Computer scientists wanted to increase the productivity of programmers because they wanted to make their own OSes and hardware. UNIX weenies wanted to increase the licensing fees AT&T could collect.

>It wasn't until I started regularly asking UNIX refuseniks what they didn't like about UNIX that better explanations emerged.

If you don't like UNIX for any reason, you are a refusenik.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusenik

>Some of the prevailing dislike had a distinctly populist flavor --- people caught a whiff of snobbery about UNIX and regarded it with the same proletarian resentment usually reserved for highbrow institutions like opera or ballet.

UNIX is a weenie culture, which is neither populist nor highbrow. UNIX weenies feel superior to these highbrow academics and populist PC users because the UNIX weenies have to do more work to get inferior software. Knowing too much about Multics or another non-UNIX culture is considered a bad thing among UNIX weenies, which makes no sense, but it's true.

>They had a point: until recently, UNIX was the lingua franca of computing's upper crust. The more harried, practical, and underprivileged of the computing world seemed to object to this aura of privilege.

On one hand, UNIX weenies "came from schools with small or absent computer science departments" and on the other hand, "UNIX was the lingua franca of computing's upper crust." It only makes sense when you understand that this is meant as shill piece rather than an opinion piece. What you are supposed to get from this is that using UNIX makes you part of a privileged group that makes the rest of the world jealous.

>There was a standard litany of more specific criticisms: UNIX is difficult and time-consuming to learn. There are too many things to remember. It's arcane and needlessly complex.

This is more shilling because it's presented as a positive. UNIX is "difficult and time-consuming to learn" so you must be intelligent if you can learn it. You're supposed to come away from this article thinking that if you can remember hundreds of system calls and commands and all that other bullshit, you must be smart. It makes you less productive because it all sucks, but that's also a positive in UNIX culture.

>Working on the command line, hands poised over the keys uninterrupted by frequent reaches for the mouse, is a posture familiar to wordsmiths (especially the really old guys who once worked on teletypes or electric typewriters). It makes some of the same demands as writing an essay.

This is an example of UNIX weenies taking credit for hardware technology, in this case PDP-11 terminals.

>I've never met Dennis Ritchie, Brian Kernighan, or Ken Thompson, but after a decade and a half on UNIX I imagine I might greet them as friends, knowing something of the shape of their thoughts.

What sucks about UNIX weenies is that they only care about people who worked at AT&T. UNIX weenies have never even heard of at least 99% of what's out there or the people who made it just because it didn't come from someone at their favorite company, and it sucks.

I was interviewing with an info tech strategy/management
consulting firm yesterday.  The interviewer asked me why I
thought Unix wasn't catching on the way "it was supposed
to."  We had a discussion about weenie-type cultures.  His
conclusion, as an outside non-techie observer, was that Unix
weenies scare off real programmers and anyone who would want
to do anything useful on a computer.

I hadn't realized it was THAT obvious...

>>970003 (OP)

>rxvt-unicode

>unicode

That shit isn't really minimal.

Pure tism

>>976440

You could also do the same with aria2.

>>982095

>>976440

Actually, according to a bug report, the only thing mpv uses youtube-dl to do is scrape the video information, but it's mpv that actually downloads the video, meaning that --ytdl-raw-options is basically placebo in all respects except fetching the video faster.

>>982106

this doesn't surprise me, I actually removed axel pretty shortly after posting that, and I'm not sure why I posted it so shortly after setting it up in the first place. Then again I seem to be posting just after some improvements here aswell. Here's the current setup, I put everything in one file in ~/bin so I can have a single hotkey rather than two, and easily call it from shell for examle when I'm linked a video document or image in irc. I've also got the ability to view looping gifs now:

#!/bin/ksh

if [[ ($1 != *".png"*)  && ($1 != *".pdf"*)  && ($1 != *".bmp"*)  &&
      ($1 != *".jpg"*)  && ($1 != *".jpeg"*) && ($1 != *".epub"*) ]]; then
        if [[ $1 != *".gif"* ]]; then
                mpv --ytdl-format=webm+bestaudio/720p --slang=en $1

                else
                mpv --loop=inf $1
        fi

        else
        tmp=$(mktemp -d)
        trap 'rm -rf $tmp' EXIT

        if [[ ($1 == *"imgur"*) && ($1 != *"i.imgur"*) ]]; then
                url=$(echo $1/zip | sed "s/gallery/a/g")

                else
                url=$1
        fi

        cd $tmp
        ftp $url
        mupdf *
fi

The text editor is coming along, I'm not really a programmer but I ended up swapping out ncurses for a library I wrote to just write straight ansi escape codes. I've also refactored a good bit sense last time so everything is much more dense. It works other than a single graphical glitch while scrolling. I'm currently in the proccess of rewriting a bit of it to make more complex movement commands/hotkeys easier to implement aswell as to make optimizing the render function a bit easier. The stable implementation is at ~400 sloc, with the ~130 lines for the (very simple) library. C is really a poor choice for this project, I haven't even gotten to the hard part and I've already found myself really wanting some simple polymorphism, and I know once I get to having to implement undo that I'm really going to wish I was using some sort of a persistant immutable datastructure, not to mention spending awhile fighting with malloc/realloc and having to manually null terminate my strings.

>>985646

>a library I wrote to just write straight ansi escape codes

Your shit still works with a dumb terminal, right? Meaning you use terminfo or at least termcap.

>>985650

nah I just used <termios.h>, and <sys/ioctl.h> directly and then used write to actually run commands and print and stuff on top of that.

>>985650

Just to be more specific, my attitude is that I'm writing a application/library that can run on ecma-48 compliant terminal emulator/terminal and if your's does not comply that's a problem with your terminal emulator/terminal and not with my software.

>>985646

>what is 'case'

>what is variable expansion

>what do you mean by shellcheck

>>985665

eh, it's just a shitty shell script my dude, I don't really care about maintainability or aesthetics, I just edit it when there is something I want to do but can't. It's also just a shitty imageboard post, I don't really care enough to run ispell.

>>985665

I went ahead and cleaned it up, considering I'm sharing it seems like the polite thing to do. my version of ksh doesn't support sed style replacements which sucks, (I didn't actually know this) this is as clean as she'll get atm. bonus looping webm support, I don't think that will be a problem for me but if it is I can always change it.

#!/bin/ksh

perform() {
        tmp=$(mktemp -d)
        trap 'rm -rf $tmp' EXIT

        cd $tmp
        ftp $2
        $1 *
}

case $1 in
        *".png"*|*".bmp"*|*".pdf"*|*".jpg"*|*".jpeg"*|*".epub"*)
                perform "mupdf" $1
                ;;
        *".gif"*|*".webm"*)
                perform "mpv --loop=inf" $1
                ;;
        *"imgur"*)
                perform "mupdf" $(echo $1/zip | sed "s/gallery/a/g")
                ;;
        *)
                mpv --ytdl-format=webm+bestaudio/720p --slang=en $1
                ;;
esac

I feel like I'm moving more and more towards "minimalism" less out of a philosophical choice and more due to an increasing despondence with modern technology as a whole. Not to mention my own depression and feeling of things having little value.

An example of this is that I went through my 2TB hard drive of back-ups and deleted everything besides about 2GB of family photos.

I apologise for talking about emotions rather than technology, but does anyone else think that these threads reveal a massive dissatisfaction with computing as it is now?

>>985714

Why don't you quote your variables? Doesn ksh prevents IFS splitting of unquoted variables (like zsh)?

>rm -rf $tmp

Never forget the --

>$1 *

I guess you don't care about dotfiles.

>echo

Don't, use printf. Just make yourself an alias like so:

echop()
{
    printf '%s\n' "$*"
}

I thought it'd be lighter.

>>985993

>Why don't you quote your variables? Doesn ksh prevents IFS splitting of unquoted variables (like zsh)?

I mean the higher order function thing works, and that's the only point where IFS would get in my way considering urls and dirs have to either encode or escape all of the chars that would be used by IFS.

>Never forget the --

I don't need it here because it's only ever deleting a directory of the form tmp.XXXXXXXXXX it always starts with tmp.

>I guess you don't care about dotfiles.

this seems extremely rare, why would someone name a image or video a dot file. I'll add it though just in case I guess.

>Don't, use printf

can url's have backslashes in them? I'll go ahead and swap it out regardless.

I also moved my nohup stuff out into the file so I have the same functionality easily from shell, ksh doesn't have disown if you're wondering. There is probably a better way to do this but I think I'm done faffing about in the shell for a bit, I've got other things to do.

#!/bin/ksh

quietly() {
        $1 </dev/null >/dev/null 2>&1
}

perform() {
        tmp=$(mktemp -d)
        trap 'rm -rf $tmp' EXIT

        cd $tmp
        quietly "ftp $2"
        quietly "$1 {,.}*"
}

main() {
        case $1 in
                *".png"*|*".jpg"*|*".jpeg"*|*".bmp"*|*".pdf"*|*".epub"*)
                        perform "mupdf" $1
                        ;;
                *".gif"*|*".webm"*)
                        perform "mpv --loop=inf" $1
                        ;;
                *"imgur"*)
                        perform "mupdf" $(printf "%s" $1/zip | sed "s/gallery/a/g")
                        ;;
                *)
                        quietly "mpv --ytdl-format=webm+bestaudio/720p --slang=en $1"
                        ;;
        esac
}

quietly "nohup $(main $1)" &

the internet said quietly "$1 {.[!.],..?,}*" was a better solution, so swap that out I guess, now I'm done.

or it would be if it worked t. brainlet

>>986072

The real solution is to use find, anyway.

>>970003 (OP)

>Web browsers

>Firefox

shut the fuck up. stop reposting this thread. actually have a real definition of minimalism. firefox is literally bigger than the linux kernel and all of the rest of userspace put together

>>973644

>>>/g/

>>970320

>#!/bin/bash

recommending instead: #!/usr/bin/env bash

>chrome does it all anyways

Indeed. Downloads, audio, images, videos, text, PDFs viewers built-in and extendable to editing, terminal, Gopher/IRC/FTP/BitTorrent/etc client/server, word processing, spreadsheets, remote desktop...

>>971415

Install plan9port and use Acme on Loonix

>>971957

Well that's basically Linux in the early 90's.

Does this thing even work without a mouse though? I prefer doing everything with keyboard.

>using any image viewer other than nigchink

lolll

>>970320

nigger ur using chrome. stfu

>>970249

You stupid nigger, "contrarian" was invented by millenials and liberals to quickly shut down any criticism about their nignog standards. Normal people disagree with 99% of what they say/do, and they respond "OMG CONTRARIAN".

$ dict -d web1913 contrarian
No definitions found for "contrarian", perhaps you mean:
web1913:  Contrariant
$ dict -i web1913
        Begin file 1 of 24:  A.  (Version 0.46) of
                 An electronic field-marked version of:

                Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
                        Version published 1913
                      by the  C. & G. Merriam Co.
                          Springfield, Mass.
                        Under the direction of
                       Noah Porter, D.D., LL.D.

          This version is copyrighted (C) 1996, 1998 by MICRA,
       Inc. of Plainfield, NJ.
          Last edit February 3, 1998.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Contrarian&offset=&limit=500&action=history

>no definition until a month before 2010

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=contrarian

>fringe definitions until mid 2009

case in point (from https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=contrarian):

>Friend: I guess you're too contrary to vote Democrat or Republican, right? So, what, Libertarian? Green Party? ...Socialist Party?

>Contrarian: Of course not, I don't think that any formal political party is a suitable representation of an individual's views.

>Friend: *sigh*

<he doesn't ascribe to one of the three political parties, letting them choose every aspect of everything! what a contrarian!

>mpv

>the hundreds of decoders for 30 years file formats you've never heard about are not bloat.

>http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/

>js

>three cookies

I suppose it doesn't need https but why does it need cookies and js?

>>986267

you're arguing with someone who thinks firefox is minimal

>>986290

I'm not arguing.

>>986305

Trying to have a discussion with, then. But I've thought the same thing you have, after I've noticed how many potential and real bugs crop up as I patched in new features to Suckless software (I was seeing if the model would be useful, it wasn't). Those bugs come from the patches being isolated from one another, i.e, changing Xresources while St was running would turn off its alpha transparency. I completely agree with your assessment, but perhaps for different reasons (stability vs convenience?)

>>986267

>just by adding certain flags

It's called installing a different piece of software. A simple command or click of a download button allows you to install any amount of software, you can even use a gui to do this.

>>986279

.. GoogleAnalyticsObject

>>986267

It's like this faggot never heard of gentoo, on fucking /tech/.

2018...

What is a good gopher daemon? Any good document on setting one up safely?

>>986474

>What is a good gopher daemon?

geomyidae

>Any good document on setting one up safely?

The geomyidae README and manpage.

>>986438

It's like this faggot can't read the first four (4) words of a post.

>2018

thats after gentoo effectively died and became a meme

Let's see some actual screenshots of these minimal setups.

>>970003 (OP)

>implying that Debian, Firefox, nano and urxvt are all minimal

>links to a page that's against systemd even though you suggest a systemd distro

>links to jewtube on /tech/ instead of using peertube

>>970046

It is by definition minimal. Its one piece with multiple utilities and multiple possible additions.

>>986474

Geomyid.

It's written in LISP

https://github.com/heddwch/geomyid

>>986566

All of these. OP is a legitimate retard.

>>986552

yes, because freetards love swinging their banhammer around and ignore the competition when they do things better.

>>986540

So what am I running right now?

Seriously, I wonder sometime if people truly believe the shit they're spitting out.

Gentoo seem to only be a meme for the new comers, often being 18 or less and that only went on an easy life, never doing anything harder than getting rank on league of legend -sorry- fortnite.

Move you fucking ass.

>>986552

free(NULL) is a noop in POSIX, you know?

>>986213

>wanting to take your hands off the keyboard so you can click five mouse buttons at once

Chording mouse interfaces were a mistake.

>>986872

>>986552

Yeah only fringe shit actually required null checking before free. PalmOS and shit like that.

>>986872

There can be other bugs that result in undefined bahavior. I don't remember the details (it was about 10 years ago) but I fixed a bug in a network server process that was pegging CPU and making the system unusable. Found the problem pretty easily with gdb. By looking at free(3) manpage now, I guess it must have been a double-free. But anyway the idea you can just call free nonchalantly and not care doesn't fill me with confidence about their gopher server. Not using one of the safe strcpy variants is also a bad sign. It's fine if you're just making a roguelike game or something like that, but not a network server exposed to the hostile Internet.

>>973587

I use w3m and to view images, I run feh reading from a named pipe beforehand and, inside w3m, I simply save the image over the pipe.

while true;do tee img<i|feh -. -;done&

The img file is a backup if I want to save it without downloading again.

I think this is a better place for it than a thread on page 8, so I'll repost it:

Has someone ported Terry's HolyC JIT compiler and unzipper to other operating systems yet?

Does the memory mapping of other operating systems pose a problem for the speed of the code terry's JIT compiler produces?

Hate me for it but I like having the source code and the executable in one zipped file.

Then you only need the JIT compiler and can run all programs that utilize it on any platform.

I mean shitty interoperability is the sole reason we still use Tel Aviv x86 extended to 64 bit.

>>986949

I gotta say the maximalist makes some good points.

>>986949

Epic cuckchan autistic binary meme brother

>>986949

<thinks tiling window managers can be bloated

you'd be surprised of the shit people come up with to add bloat to software

<the chad maximalist

>uses his entire CPU to show a shitty transition animation when the user clicks a button, and it's displayed on a sample-and-hold LCD so it _still_ looks like shit on his $3000 setup

<discovers new and useful features on his system every single day

you can do this with just the linux kernel alone. why waste time on a bunch of userspace cancer filled with (((UX)))

<can be entertained for hours by the compiz desktop cube

oh this is a nignog who actually thinks compiz isn't a joke

>>986957

How is compiz a joke? It's been a fully functional window manager for years and years now. It used to come pre-installed on tons of professionally-produced OSs back when GNOME 2 was a thing.

MPV can view images? Gifs and stuff too?

>>986990

apparently, i dont think it can pan/zoom though.

>Text editors

GNU nano or Vim

I would debate that gedit is more minimal than vim

(apples to oranges of course)

>>987002

lol no that piece of shit isn't more minimal than vim, it just has less features. meanwhile it takes 10 seconds to load /etc/passwd

Any recommendations for FOSS note taking on openBSD similar to evernote?

>>987244

just use emacs org mode

emacs is minimalism because it replaces like 50 programs

>>987386

Such as?

Post legitimately good-looking minimal setups. Doesn't have to be your own.

>inb4 >>>/rice/

Only if it starts getting multiple posts a week

Why not use the FreeBSD sh as your shell?

>>986605

What browser is that anon

>>992334

It's eww, (one of) the built emacs browser(s).

>>992629

They ever fix the showstopper memory leak in that fucker? I enjoyed eww for the first few minutes of using it until it started consuming all of my system's resources.

>>970311

>stali x86_64

Hol up, stali's still a thing?

>>992810

>NetBSD is supposed to be "light"

That is not the driving factor behind NetBSD.

>>992910

Maybe you should actually read how pkgsrc works before knocking it. You seem to be confusing pkg_add and building with pkgsrc.

pkg_add is for installing binary distributions.

NetBSD isn't linux. Your going to have to learn new things.

>>993029

No I'm not confusing them. I'm a long-time OpenBSD user and know what the difference is between the ports system (pkgsrc here) and the pre-built binary packages. I don't have a problem building my own xmp package, or other small stuff. But if I have to build firefox, that's probably not gonna fly on my little A20 sun7i board. Most of these boards aren't very powerful, have limited memory, and often just a microSD instead of SATA.

>>986277

What is the alternative?

>>992810

>he doesn't realize how computers work so he blames the operating system

So this is the state of pajeet shills on /tech/.

>>992673

I have never had a memory leak problem with eww and I've been using it for years. Maybe you aren't used to using a computer yet?

Okay, faggots, I finally switched to st. Compiling for the first time and I have a question: how do you manage updates? Do you just use "git pull" or is there a more convenient way?

>>993470

I don't think it's had a release since 2016

>>993473

Sorry, I was thinking of dwm. I just check the suckless homepage

>>993470

yes mate... that's the point.

If you want a more convenient way then write a quick shell script, make a cron job if you're brave enough.

#!/bin/bash

ORIG_DIR=$(pwd)
SRC_DIR=$HOME/sources

for p in st dwm dmenu etc...
do
    ( cd $SRC_DIR/$p; git pull && make clean install ) &
done
cd "$ORIG_DIR"
wait

You now have a parallel updater

Having simple software with simple processes enables a regular experience and the ability for you to reason about your software.

Optimize for your workflow, have it behave how you expect.

>>993449

I'm sure that's it. Software never has bugs, after all, works-on-my-machine-anon.

>>993470

>how do you update?

Why update? it's not net facing, and there are almost certainly no security bugs anyways. You'd only update if you wanted some feature, at which point you'd need to be looking at the mailing lists or source tree anyways (in particular because 90% of the time new features come as patches not commits). The drive to regularly update your software comes from devs who release half-finished crap and calm users down by telling them the bugs will be fixed soon. Better to release working software in the first place.

>>993517

Nice, thanks. Probably going to use it once a year since there's nothing critical to update.

>>993526

I guess you're right. It has everything that I need right now. I only hope there's no visual bugs.

Also how do you set your desk wallpaper if feh is bloated?

>>993643

If you just want a solid color you could use xsetroot, other than that I don't know.

>>993448

No I blame the faggot that built those arm packages. Like I said, some of those boards have very little memory. They're still making some with only 512 MB, like for example the various *Pi Zero boards, and stuff like Sheevaplug & similar. And there are older boards with 256 MB or less, as seen here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_single-board_computers

The maximum bloat faggotry is fine on amd64, but when you're talking about smaller platforms it doesn't make sense to make that the default. Especially when you consider that many of these ARM boards won't run a desktop but instead be used as NAS or other network server. So all that bloated desktop shit doesn't belong in ARM packages by default. Especially not as a dependency for an ncurses MOD player.

>>970003 (OP)

is using Trisquel mini /minimalist/ ?

>>970126

wew, software minimalists look like THAT?!

I have to start going to the gym t. fatfuck

also what OS do you use on your main machine?

>>993653

256 and 512 megs is a lot of ram compared to other systems like 68k and macppc which nbsd runs fine on. If you think a pi zero is slow try building something on a 25mhz quadra with 32 megs of ram. Sometimes you have to be patient.

If you don't like how the maintainer does something then just build it yourself.

>>993681

Yep, I had an Amiga 500 once. MOD player on there was under 10 KB. I'm gonna build unbloated packages myself, but first have to finish other tasks.

Which background setter is /sm/ enough?

hsetroot? feh?

>>970003 (OP)

>dwm or i3

Actual minimalism would probably be Sway, without Xwayland. More secure

Less bloat to deal with

and Server-Side Decorations like God intended - none of that GNOME CSD crap

>>994089

Actual minimalism would be dvtm. Both xorg and wayland are bloat.

>>994127

This isn't practical and you know it. Mainly because terminal emulators and keyboard modifiers aren't friends, and because framebuffer using applications grab the entire tty.

>>994127

how is dvtm any different from tmux?

>>993871

xwallpaper

>>994187

Don't use it, but I know it doesn't handle both session management and multiplexing.

>>992810

try OpenBSD instead.

>>971089

I don't know about suckless but OpenBSD hackathons are always massively productive.

>>994255

Just checked them out, they have some excellent shirts. Good to see they aren't a bunch of dry SRSBSNSfags.

>software minimalism

>Calculator

>wristwatch

>typewriter

That's the only true software minimalism there is.

>>970249

>proprietary garbage like Chromium

Chromium is BSD licensed. It's a better option than Firefox. Perhaps you are thinking of Chrome.

Is there a suckless media explorer? I think a suckless GUI file explorer would suffice.

What I am looking for is:

- some form of thumbnail mode so I can see a preview of each item in a folder, such as swiv's thumbnail view

- recognises and thumbnails (where applicable) many codecs (eg. images, video)

- lists at least the file name under each thumbnail

- minimal and well written, so it can be customised or extended

If not, I will attempt to fork swiv to make one, but I have very little experience beyond decent C programming.

One of the things that bothers me about w3m is how it saves tmp files, or cache files, everything is saved to .w3m under a user's home directory, not in a folder specifically for tmp files but saved alongside w3m's config, history, and mailcap files.

Granted, w3m will delete those files when it quits, but if anything happens like an unexpected termination then you have to manually delete all these files and that makes me very nervous that one time I might accidentally delete the config/mailcap files.

I can't find any option to change the tmp directory to something more sane like actually using /tmp or /tmp/w3m or whatever, is there actually a way to change this or no?

>>995872

If it uses the same directory name for tmp/cache files all the time, you can just create a symlink that points to /tmp/w3m or whatever.

Otherwise just change the paths in the source code. It's not hard to modify such small programs and rebuild them.

>>993871

>>993643

>Also how do you set your desk wallpaper if feh is bloated?

bgs.c see goyhub.nig/Gottox/bgs

>>992889

Not really but its still hosted on their website. It just doesn't have homepage anymore. Rather than use stali though I find its much better to throw together your own distro from scratch(no I'm not talking about LFS). It requires surprisingly little effort once you are familiar with the workings of a linux system. Doing it this way ensures that it is entirely tailored to you and follows your own philosophies.

>>995884

Well no the problem is that it doesn't use a separate directory for tmp/cache files, everything is stored in ~/.w3m/ which is also shared by the config files, so you could potentially erase your configs if you have to manually clear the tmp/cache files.

I also searched through the git for how it saves tmp files but couldn't really pinpoint where it is, tried to find 'w3mtmp' but it turns up zero results on the github repo.

>>995960

So just backup your configs.

I fixed my thinkpad, should I install gentoo or void?

>>996132

Void, or OpenBSD. I used to use Gentoo but honestly - it's crypto-bloated shit

>>996151

What about compiling everything from source so you get the best performance?

>>996154

I'd guess it's an appreciable time investment (configuration and sometimes troubleshooting) to save a few seconds of computation time a month. Never got much into from-source distros.

So, installing ST was a good decision. Compiling and tinkering in config was a very useful experience.

Now I want more.

Does dwm has any advantages over bspwm?

And do you use dmenu? I tried it once and rofi too, but didn't find them useful enough. I just prefer to open programs from a terminal client.

>>996168

>prefer to open programs from a terminal client

but why?

>>996479

It feels like if I won't be using terminal daily I 'll forget commands.

Eh, whatever. Dmenu repo is dead anyways, I can't download patches. Trying to make any use of rofi again, seems like fine for gui programs, but writing scripts is slightly complicated, because you need to use

handle_selection

in order to display stdin of script in it.

>>973917

I'd love to hear more about how great MULTICS or ITS were but people never talk about specifics, just that they were "better"

Yes, I already know and understand what PCLSRing is.

>>996506

Two can play the quoting game.

When Multics began to work, the very first place it worked was here... BTL actually used the 645 as a Multics machine. Three people could overload it.

Thoughts on WeeChat?

It's not barebones, but it looks reasonably minimal to me. What are your thoughts on the code quality?

>>996578

Bloated version of irssi.

>>996583

Bloated version of ircII.

>>996602

bloated version of sic

>>996603

bloated version of telnet

>>996604

bloated version of ncat

>>996621

bloated version of attuning your third eye to the subtle fluctuations in the magnetic fields in your network card's circuitry, then manipulating them by altering the flow of prana through your chakras

Software minimalism is certainly an important feature, but the main advantage should be the result, especially if it concerns the enterprise, or production. For example, SoftActivity, employee monitoring software made a huge step in the progress of IT technologies.

>>996677

>SoftActivity

East Slavic enterprise spyware made in Canada, CEO has possible Jewish last name

A plea from a non-tech person (hoping this is the right thread to post this in).

The play, pause and stop buttons have been compressed into one play/pause button. (This happened in the last decade or so? Was it Apple that started this trend?)

This means a lot of waiting if there is lag for feedback, and it adds up.

In the name of usability please bring back the stop button!

>>996662

Upvoted, fellow redditor!

>>970125

Devuan is the exception to that rule in this case. Have you even used Devuan? Been using it for the past year its not unfriendly in the slightest.

Someone give me a simple music player (like mpg123) that supports replaygain and a way to be remote controlled (at least pause/play/seek/quit). The only thing I'm seeing for now is mpv, but it's super heavy for just playing some music.

>>996757

What about mpd? it has all the remote control features, and has replaygain according to this: http://mpdconf.org/wiki/index.php?title=Mpd.conf

Not sure I'd call it lightweight, but it's probably better than mpv.

>>996720

does it still have packages that try to pull in systemd?

>>996772

mpd is a music library manager and player, not just a player. It's also a boostruosity.

I want a player to use my own library management, actually.

Minimalist metronome

I came across this neat hack for a metronome recently - for BASH, in a ~/.bashrc for example:

alias metronome='function _metronome(){ watch -bn$1 return 1; }; _metronome'

source the .bashrc 
source ~/.bashrc
then use as
metronome 60
will beep every 60 seconds

watch -b will beep on non-zero exit

watch -n$1 will repeat the watch command every $1 seconds

watch return 1 will ensure there is non zero exit, causing the beep

>>996680

You're heading into the 2n Dark Age anon

>>996789

>thread is called "Software Minimalism"

>bash

>when the function doesn't require bash in any way

Lurk and learn moar, gnewfag.

>>996792

>when the function doesn't require bash in any way

Well it wasn't written for csh was it faggot?

>>software minimalism

>>1 LoC application

>but muh shell

Show us your zero LoC application to do the same.

>>996680

Not stop button? No problem.

It's kill -9 time

> No BOFH, No!

Clickety-click (with rm -rf for good measure)

>>996792

>when it doesn't require bash

It's an alias. If your already using bash as your interactive shell, it's more minimal to write aliases in it, rather than start a separate program.

>>996825

I just want to stop a playing video with certainty, not kibosh my program without save... backs away slowly (bring back the stop button, please...)